very tired man in fact, but chuck, it is a pleasure to see you. >> morning. >> if the stakes for the president right now are quite simply to get everybody to buy in on the need for reform -- if he is just trying to kill those who say no -- in other words, not trying to sell how but just try to eliminate the "let's not do anything" crowd, how is he doing on that front? >> i think people tuned in. people that are interested in this issue that aren't politicians tuned in to find out two things. am i going to get -- what's the safety net health insurance going to be, am i going to get itfy don't have it, and are my taxes going to go up. i think he kind of answered those two questions in this respect. he brought up that millionaire surcharge tax. he seemed to indicate the very wealthy are going to see a tax hike. didn't quite define it but the fact he drew a line at millionaires was i think a little bit of a signal to congress. he said that whatever bill he's going to sign is going to cover 97%, 98% of americans. so that folks watching that

didn't have health insurance probably were convinced they were going to. but he had a difficult time explaining what a public insurance option is and in fact it's probably not surprising that that's what republicans jumped on this morning. here's eric cantor. >> what i heard last night was a president that seemed somewhat frustrated that people don't understand what this government health care plan is about. throughout the hour-long press conference last night, i think people still have a lot of questions about what it means for them and their families. >> i was struck, he said people were confused. you do wonder. the president is incredibly knowledgeable on this issue, to the point where i talk to some democrats who say, he knows too much about it, because he can flip into the weeds too easily. like when he was talking about medicare reimbursement rates and he got into it and it is an incredibly important issue when it comes to controlling costs, but do you want to talk about it

in an event that you're trying to use to talk over congress and over the press. then one other point i would make, dylan, did this press conference come a week too soon? he didn't have the senate finance committee plan itself. he didn't have all the details at hand yet because they don't quite know what's coming out of congress. in a perfect world my guess is the white house wishes they had that so if this took place next week, we'd have more details. >> one other question that occurs to me, sort of observing all of this, certainly with the house plan originally, even still a little bit with the way obama's rhetoric is being formed, they very quickly go to how we're going to pay for it without getting into how we're going to do it. it's confusing to me as to why we're jumping to how we're going to pay for it when we're not at least -- maybe i'm missing things -- getting a clear -- taking a moment to say, hey, hey, i call american health care new york knicks, we'll put $1

in, we get a penny in. i don't want to keep putting dollars in for pennies, i want to put dollars in for dollars. that's the how do you do it question. i feel we're getting a lot of how do i pay, and not a lot of how do i do. >> the entire debate in congress is how do you pay. they're not getting into the how do you do. dylan, i agree with you. the fact is as hard as it may seem to this white house about trying to get something passed, wait until they have to try to explain to the public when they get a bill that it is going to take years to implement this thing. i think that is going to be an incredible public relations challenge for them. forget trying to convince the public to be patient about the stimulus. wait until they have to understand that changing the health care, the way our health care system works takes years. i just think that there is an opportunity for the president to focus on the how do we do it. if i have a how do i do it conversation and the republicans are saying, no, i don't want to do it, that's a much weaker position for republicans as opposed to we're just going to do it, it is $1.5 trillion.

the republicans are like you just want to doing it at $1.5 trillion? that's crazy. speaking of republicans, give me one second, chuck. i want to get a piece of sound in from john boehner on the republican side. >> this is not what the american people want. mr. president, it's time to scrap this bill. let's start over in a bipartisan way. >> i think that is a conversation you'll hear more of. if anything, the democrats have done themselves a disservice by jumping to a how do we pay for it conversation which to chuck's point, rightly made, that's what congress knows how to do, let's find some money. we'll tax this, cut that. but congress is not particularly well equipped apparently to actually improve a broken system which is what we have. at least they have not evidenced themselves to the media or american people as having a great capacity to improve the way a broken system functions.

in fixing the system, they can argue how to pay to perpetuate that broken system which i think makes a lot of folks want to change the channel. right now i want to bring in white house deputy press secretary who may disagree with some of the things i've said. bill burton. bill, it's nice to see you. i'm going to ask you the same questions i was asking chuck. there's a frustration on -- we've jumped to how we going to pay for it but we haven't spent a lot of time on how do we get more bang for our buck. how do we do it as opposed to how do we pay for it knowing what we're doing right now is spending a lot and getting a little. >> those two questions are actually related in the sense that one of the important proposals up on capitol hill to help bend the cost curve for american families and businesses is med pac. the idea that you have doctors and professional who are making decisions on things that will increase the quality of care, find inefficiencies and root out

some of the waste in the system. if you can give some power to med pac you can root out a lot of the costs the american people are having to pay right now. >> i understand that. i think we'd all benefit from a broader understanding of how health insurance works. in other words, people understand their car insurance works in the sense that the government has a law that says if you own a car you have to have insurance because that's the only way i can make auto insurance reasonably affordable, though some states that's not the case. with health insurance the government has never done that. people have not even had that really had enough of that conversation. i know we've begun it. whether it is using health insurance or having conversation of more patient-driven structures, whether federal health savings accounts, a widen concept or an obama public option concept, people don't understand why these are good ideas. they're being told these are good ideas but they don't have enough of an understanding of the health system to understand

the why. i think that's a huge barrier right now. >> part of the reason that the president had a press conference last night and has been talking to different members of the media, including meredith vieira and all sorts of other reports, he wants to have a conversation with the american people about these issues. when it comes to getting people covered and bringing those costs, they are complicated issues. even though there is broad agreement that we need to get health reform done right now, there are some disagreements on how we pay for it and how we bring down costs. that's what the conversations on capitol hill are. even as we speak, the blue dogs were over this week. we had very productive conversations with them about how to bring down costs, how we make this deficit neutral. some republicans are even working constructively toward a proposal. there is also some republicans who are trying to defeat this for politics. >> the republicans that just want to defeat it i ignore because it's stupid. in other words, if somebody has an idea to try to improve it, we'd love to talk about it. to say we shouldn't do anything to use the president's word is

stupid. >> doesn't make a lot of sense. >> why would you do that? but it doesn't mean you should go write a check and just give it away either. we need to sort of bury ourselves in this conversation one way or the other. what do you think -- what can you do from here to make it more acceptable, something that can be put out by the president and digested, a cartoon. i don't care what it is. there are so many mechanisms to communicate why and how systems function. how capitalism works. why health care works in a certain way or in another way. are you entertaining those types of techniques? >> we aren't entertaining cartoons necessarily, but the president is using all the different tools at his disposal. he's had the press conference last night. he's doing interviews with reporters. he's out going to cleveland today. he'll visit a clinic. he's going to talk directly with folk at a town hall in ohio. the president is going out around the country. cabinet secretary, members of

the staff, are going up to capitol hill and are also speaking directly with the american people online, on tv, on the radio. you name it. we're doing it. >> what do you think about the widen plan? >> well, i think that there is some constructive ideas that widen has proposed. >> for instance? what do you like about the widen plan? >> i don't want to get nooch into the specifics of what widen versus different folks are -- >> understood. but you stlthere are some good ideas there. the least you can do is tell me what some of those good ideas that are represented are. >> i understand that you'd love for me to negotiate out -- >> no, no, that's not -- you said you think it was some good ideas in the widen plan. i think there is some good ideas in the widen plan in that it is a more patient-driven are structure. i get rid of the corporate model and push it down on individuals and give them more choice, create a competitor environment

for insurers who have been basically charging economic rent to america for years now. we can obliterate that. i think the president made it very clear the health insurance companies are the -- one of the big money leeches on this system. whether you use the widen plan or some other plan, is it clear that the president, whether a public option or some version of what senator widen or others are discussing, that health insurance companies will be forced into a far more competitive environment. >> competition is clearly important to the president, making sure that people do have a choice. because that's the only way you can really ensure that costs go down for the american people and for businesses that are just being crushed under these skyrocketing health care costs. then just making sure that whatever proposal it is, it's deficit neutral so we aren't just adding to the deficit and creating bigger problems for the american fiscal situation down the road. >> one thing everybody understands, having one institution basically the health

insurance companies, charging rent, effectively, to facilitate all of this processing is something we can't afford. we can't afford to pay the health insurance companies the rent we're paying them to facilitate our health care system particularly when so many people aren't getting health care. the question is -- again, we aren't going to solve it here. i know you got to go. if you want to quick comment there -- >> i'm just going to say, i obviously agree that unless we do something that's going to bend that cost curve we're not going to be able to put the american economy on solid footing or put american families and businesses on the footing that they need to be and going into the future. >> safe to say the health insurance companies are in the cross hairs. stock prices of health insurance companies, they've gone from $60 to $20. the market already knows that the money being made in health insurance is over. fair? >> well, i'm no expert on whether or not they're going to be able to continue to make money. but i do know that they're -- if people like their coverage, they're going to be able to keep it. is just about giving more

choices to bring down costs for the american people. >> one more for you, away from health care. i want to run a sound bite. both of a question and an answer from the president. the question goes to transparency in the financial bailout. take a listen, bill. >> the t.a.r.p. inspector general recently said that your white house is with holding too much information or not bank bail out. my question for you is, are you fulfilling your promise of transparency in the white house. >> let me take a look at what exactly they say we have not provided. i think that we've provided much greater transparency than existed prior to our administration coming in. it is a big program. i don't know exactly what's been requested. i'll find out and i will have an answer for you. >> bill, two things on that. one, i believe i have a sense of what exactly has been requested. the very specific thing and i talked to congressman ron paul about it yesterday. we have $13 trillion to $14 trillion worth of potential risk. again, it may not be any risk

but there is potential risk to the tune of $13 trillion to $14 trillion being held at the federal reserve last night as the banks brought basically things they could not sell, like goodwill, to the fed and got money for it. ron paul, myself, many others would like to know what was in those goodwill banks? what did the banks bring in to the federal reserve that the federal reserve basically incurred $13 trillion to $14 trillion worth of liability on behalf of the banks? the question is what is in that collateral? and the federal reserve obviously being very aggressive in denying access to that information. i'd love to be able to sort of walk through that with you or with somebody else at another time and sort of talk about why it is we're defending that information, why we don't want to disclose what's in the federal reserve and maybe why we should. >> well, with -- since we don't have time to get into all the specifics now. i know you got to go to a break soon but i will send you the letter that herb allison has written to the inspector general over at t.a.r.p. and it helps to explain some of the different ways where programs were

double-counted, things that are no longer in existence were counted. and it gets into some real texture on where we are with that program. i'll shoot that over your way. >> maybe we can continue this conversation. because i think, again, to the extent to which we're carrying trillions of dollars of risk on behalf of the u.s. banking system against the future of this country, with taxpayers, it doesn't seem unreasonable that somebody like ron paul or anybody else would want to know what that is. >> the president wants to make sure that every cent of that money is accounted for. >> you got to go. >> we'll get on the phone some time. >> bill, enjoy your day off. come back and converse with us further, bill burton, deputy white house press secretary. thank you. much more ahead here on the morning meeting. the mystery of michael jackson's death. the investigation jumping to yet another level. there may actually be manslaughter charges before this is over. we'll have that conversation.

contessa, patiently sitting next to me allowing me to harass bill burton. toure is here. lots of folks coming around. we're just getting started. two-hour meeting under way. back after this. nothing beats walmart's unbeatable prices... but now they have new areas

where i can find the brands i use every day-- and save even more. so that's what they mean by unbeatable. save money. live better. walmart. here's one for your skin that's clinically proven. olay professional pro-x wrinkle protocol is as effective as the leading wrinkle prescription brand at reducing the look of wrinkles. that's because olay has teamed with a highly specialized group of dermatologists and created a wrinkle protocol that gives you the results of the leading wrinkle prescription brand, without a prescription. olay professional pro-x. this is a guarantee you're guaranteed to love. [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today.

good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less,

it may not be surprising to some but it is still shocking when the reality starts to bear itself out. the investigation looking into michael jackson's death may soon become indeed a criminal probe. federal agents are now focusing on the doctor who was with him when he died. that's not a surprise obviously. and others who treated jackson are also under the microscope. there are also many questions being asked just about the people and how he was able to surround himself with an apparent flow of pharmaceuticals for many years in a row. jeff rossen is live in burbank

with more. >> reporter: this has morphed into a criminal probe. federal drug agents, along with los angeles police detectives and houston police all descended on dr. conrad murray's office in houston for about two hours with a search warrant. on that search warrant dr. murray's lawyer confirms it said that they were looking for evidence of manslaughter. they've sort of tipped their hand here a little bit. that's sort of what they're going for right now, those manslaughter charges. we don't know if it is against dr. murray. we don't know who it is against. nbc news has learned from a source familiar with the case they are looking into 19 doctors but this is certainly the most public display we've seen yet. we understand they took out 21 documents from the doctor's office, along with a forensic image of his hard drive on a business computer in there. what experts say now is what this means for the case. pretty big leap. because to get that search

warrant, it means the prosecutors had to prove to a judge probable cause that there was evidence in that office of a manslaughter charge. and so it may not be against dr. murray per se, but they believe that evidence was in there. so it is really a step in the investigation and it just goes to show that you when this toxicology report comes out, perhaps as early as next week, we could see things start moving pretty quick. >> of course, the question will be was it a crime. if it was a crime, who's responsible. is it the doctor? is it the friends who buy drugs for him? ian, who again has spent a vast amount of time not only following michael jackson but wrote a book about it, author of "unmasked" the final years of michael jackson. in your focus particularly has been toward the later, crazier, more drug behavioral years. what did you come up in terms of

who was providing the flow of drugs or whatever. is it doctor shopping, or friend shopping where i swap friends out of the inner circle who happen to have pills in their pocket? >> dylan, first, people are goi going downtown. the striped pajamas are definitely waiting. they are going to get it right this time. i want to commend the lapd department for taking every right step, doing everything right. dr. murray definitely should have not been administering what he was in a residential setting. only in a hospital setting. and also i'll tell you one thing, as jeff says, the feds have moved in. you have lapd, guys are sweating in their boots right now. you have 20-odd doctors who are hiding out right now and lapd is going to take their time and do this properly and i take my hat off to them today. because we will get great results hopefully in the michael jackson case. it won't be like previous

celebrity cases in los angeles where they got it wrong. >> you believe lapd is going to look at this and go doctor to doctor, friend to friend, pill to pill and actually attempt to solve this case. >> they are not going to leave any stone unturned. they are not going to rush to judgment. they're going to let these guys just sweat in their boots and while they're doing that, they're going to do due diligence. they have people cooperating with them. one doctor i know of at least, and one independent guy from the michael jackson camp. this is going to be one of the most thorough investigations we've ever seen go down in hollywood. and finally, in a celebrity death, we might have proper judgment. >> ian, talk to me about -- how you doing, by the way? talk to me about you're calling this sort of a drug aperiod.

how is he also a father if he's also dealing with a lot of these prescription drugs and such? >> well, the first thing is, these drugs should have never been administered to michael jackson. look at the history. he did start having a dependency -- i prefer using the word dependency than addict. michael jackson was not in great shape. if you or i were in the shape michael jackson was in, we would also need medication. >> the only counter to that, ian, maybe he was in the condition he was in because of the medication he was taking. >> absolutely not. it was the enablers that upped the doses that control michael jackson and they could make money off this. >> that's basic biochemistry. fy take a certain amount of any chemical over time, i will need an incrementally larger amount

of that chemical to achieve the same effect. that's the point. >> he got terrible medical advice. >> i quit drinking a long time ago so i know how it works. >> it has nothing to do with alcohol here. >> drugs are drugs. >> let me finish. let me finish. >> i biochemistry's no different, trust me. >> he had enablers, vultures around him who wanted to make money. these doctors should have never been on the michael jackson case. the best entertainer should have been in a hospital with a world class doctor, not with these clowns, i call, who are doctors giving him these type of drugs in a residential setting. >> one thing that goes on here is that he has a private doctor. any time you have a private dk tore, that person's going to do what you want them to do. shouldn't that be against the law? >> he's choosing people who are around him. >> let me tell you something -- >> ian, i don't have time.

i'll bring you back. there will be more to come on this one for sure. straight ahead here on the "morning meeting," does it matter whether you're born in the usa if you want to be the president? a debate not only about obama, which is silly, but a debate, more importantly, about citizenship and the presidency. jennifer granholm, governor of michigan. not a u.s.-born person. arnold schwarzenegger. we could go on and on about this. we'll have a discussion whether foreigners ought to be eligible. are some of those who come to this country more american than some americans? that conversation's coming up. come on in. you're invited to the chevy open house. where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing.

it's simple. now get an '09 malibu 1lt with an epa estimated 33 mpg highway. get it now for around 21 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details. it's taken my time. time that i should have had to be with my family. it's like you're getting violated. these are uncertain times. and it's tough enough in this economy without... the added pressure, headache, and heartache of having...

to struggle with a stolen identity. but you don't have to. lifelock works to stop identity theft before it happens. it's been more than a consequence of money. it's, it's taken time... out of my days for months on end now... and, uh, it just literally robbed me of my credibility. you feel like you went to law school and you... have to become an attorney all of a sudden... for yourself because nobody else will do this for you. cleaning up the mess of identity theft can be... frustrating and take hours of your personal time. what we can't stop, our team will help fix... at our expense and restore your good name. for me, what having my identity stolen has meant... has been not just financial hardship... but having to tell my children no to certain things... because i just can't afford 'em right now. it's consequences that i'm serving for somebody else's behavior. with lifelock, you get our proactive identity theft protection... and our dedicated team who stand ready... to help you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

if this ever does begin again, lifelock will be there... to protect us and that, to me, is -- that's priceless. take control of your identity. protect yourself with lifelock's proactive protection and our... $1 million total service guarantee. security. peace of mind. protection. that's what lifelock provides. you can take control of your identity. call now for special savings and we'll also give you... 30 days to try lifelock absolutely free. call now and mention id. call now or go to lifelock.com. ♪ welcome back to the "morning meeting." health care atop the agenda. president obama returning to campaign mode effectively pushing for health care reform.

going to ohio this afternoon. last night he laid it all on the line in prime time in a news conference. he nalsignaled he would be in fr of paying for it with a so-called millionaire tax. why we've gone to how to pay for it when we haven't even decided how to do it is beyond me. just ahead here on the "morning meeting." born in the usa. why are some groups still not buying that president obama's an american citizen and why does it matter? we'll head to the break room a little later this hour. why some adoption groups, even some lawmakers, up in arms about a new movie called "orphans" that turned annie into a killer. then just moments ago the opening bell on wall street ringing. big day for corporate earnings. in the middle of the earnings cycle there. the bad news is that the banks continue to show increasing loan losses which is something that by now we were hoping wouldn't be happening. that means banks are just seeing more defaults on more loans, be it for credit cards, cars or houses. we will continue with that conversation another time.

first let's pick up on the citizenship issue. video from a town hall meeting in delaware getting a lot of play over the last couple of days. the question, the president's citizenship. contessa of course among other things, very familiar with this particular issue. >> when barack obama was running for president, a group of people who came to be known as birthers insists obama was not born in the united states. the campaign released a certified copy of president obama's birth certificate. and then critics claimed it was a fake or altered. the issue just won't go away. recently delaware congressman mike castle called on a woman in the audience at a local town hall meeting. wait until you see this tape. >> i want to know why are you people ignoring his birth certificate?

is he not an american citizen. he is a citizen of kenya. >> mike castle, by the way, refuted that, insisted that he is indeed a citizen and he got booed. even some prominent conservatives now are at it. prominent people adding fuel to this fire. we have it? >> what do obama and god have in common? neither has a birth certificate. >> every party has people who take up issues that aren't the best issues and we can't be responsible for all of it. the democrats have plenty of that. >> this issue is people are uncomfortable with having for the first time ever i think a president who seems so reluctant to defend the nation overseas. >> what? in what way is he reluctant to defend the nation overseas? >> i think by escalating a war in afghanistan and all the other -- >> adding 22,000 people to the army -- by the way, we all know the constitution does require the president be a natural-born citizen and at least 35 years

old. earlier this year, one congressman from florida, republican bill posey, introduced a bill requiring candidates to produce birth certificates to be eligible to run. i mean this has reached -- the woman you saw at that town hall meeting stood up and finally said she was so furious, she said "i want my country back!" >> this is completely racist. when you point out he's black, and say "he's not one of us,". >> chuck todd are you there? i feel like there is also an aspect in recent history where power in this country is exchanged by destroying and distracting. power in this country is not accumulated through achievement. power in this country is not accumulated by way of solving problems for the american people. power in this country is accumulated by destroying those

around you so that there's no one else to have power. i feel like what you're seeing here -- if i don't have chuck, maybe i have jonathan -- i have both of you actually. you guys know more about this than any of us, especially more than we do. he's foreign, he's alien, he's not familiar, he's "the other." and it is traditional power politics. i won't actually try to solve anything, i will just distract you with viscerally provocative concepts like "he's not born here" or "they're going to steal our --" >> it's jonathan. contessa, i'm very happy you brought up what the woman says in that clip when she skramscrei want my country back." it remind me of the mccain-palin rallies, people screaming "string him up," "kill him," and adding to this sort of fervor and sense in the country that

some alien, some foreign person was trying to take over the country. remember when she have justice roberts flubbed the oath of office and the president redid the oath in the white house two days later. i think it was done to guard against this sort of crazy fringe that would question the legitimacy of his presidency. and by having people question whether he was actually born in this country i think furthers that, which is why i thought chris matthews' interview with that congressman who introduced the bill requiring people to bring forth their birth certificates was very important. he said, "here it is." "here is the president's birth certificate." i think, unfortunately, the president and the obama administration, that white house, is going to constantly have to prove that he is born here and that -- >> chuck, what do you think's going on here? >> i'll just say, this is the downside of the internet. because it gives a voice to what

used to be relegated to crazy, low-end or high-end a.m. radio. you do wonder if by giving it attention -- i know this looks like an into the looking glass moment -- but every time we cover it, even if we're covering it to debung it k it -- you're feeding it. >> i agree with you. >> the biggest mistake the obama folks made was by deciding to post their birth certificate online. it only fed the conspiracy theory. i wonder, they -- i asked them about this the other day, do you regret ever posting it. they said, no, we thought that was the way to try to shut it down. but any little attention it gives, it feeds it. this is where the internet is so -- between the internet can be destructive. >> the thing is with the politics of personal destruction, which is the

culture of washington recently, as opposed to the politics of public solution, which is a much harder thing to do -- >> this is not just an internet issue. this issue directly relates to the issue of calling him arab. which we've seen throughout campaign. you see the media pushing this tape of this woman saying "he's arab," and john mccain, one of his few great character moments in the campaign, saying "no, he's not, ma'am, he's a good american." as if arabs aren't good americans. >> i think it gets traction because it speaks to an underlying discomfort with a president who is other in certain portions of this country, and it speaks -- it reflects a culture of the politics of personal destruction -- jonathan? >> it does us no good to ignore rallies like that in delaware and it does us no good to ignore the fact that because of the election of the first black president, even the department of homeland security put out a

report that said, because of the economic downturn and the historical presidential election, they are seeing a rise in the activity of hate groups around the country. we cannot ignore it. >> later on in the tape, everyone at that town hall meeting stood up and pledged allegiance in the middle of a question and answer question. they have influence. >> i really think honestly that the politics of personal destruction -- i think people understand, whether the financial crisis, health care crisis, we'll have an energy crisis, there's a lot of things that talk about the next few years. politics of personal destruction i don't think will be viable. i think the american people understand the stakes are too high to play games of "i'm taking you down because i want the power." as opposed to "i'll take the power and solve the problem." >> i think his election as president is probably the start of what dylan wants, is to move

away from the politics of personal destruction and to the politics of public solution. >> that's why we have a government. it's crazy. we'll take a break. later at the "morning meeting," a sweet innocent orphan turns out to be pure evil. >> what? >> the plot after new movie. it's stirring controversy. when annie turns psycho. why so much controversy. music up and under. ♪ vo: will you find a day off in aisle 17? vo: or family time in aisle 12? vo: well yeah, because when you save money on simple things, vo: it adds up to some pretty amazing things. vo: walmart saves the average family $3,100 a year no matter where you shop. vo: what will you do with your savings?

vo: save money. live better. walmart.

this morning following a breaking news story in new jersey. in the past hour or two, not since the spran knoopranos have

being arrested. crackdown style. this one is real. we'll talk about it right after this. i never thought it could happen to me... a heart attack at 53. i had felt fine. but turns out... my cholesterol and other risk factors... increased my chance of a heart attack. i should've done something. now, i trust my heart to lipitor. when diet and exercise are not enough, adding lipitor may help. unlike some other cholesterol lowering medications, lipitor is fda approved to reduce the risk... of heart attack, stroke, and certain kinds of heart surgeries... in patients with several common risk factors... or heart disease. lipitor has been extensively studied... with over 16 years of research. lipitor is not for everyone, including people with liver problems... and women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. you need simple blood tests to check for liver problems. tell your doctor if you are taking other medications, or if you have any muscle pain or weakness. this may be a sign of a rare but serious side effect.

i was caught off-guard. but maybe you can learn from my story. have a heart to heart with your doctor... about your risk. and about lipitor. but with aleve, i don't have to worry about my knees hurting. only two aleve can stop pain all day. that would take three times as many tylenol arthritis pain. aleve works for me. you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet.

in these markets, i'm glad i turned to fidelity for an annuity with guaranteed income for life. that's right, guaranteed income for life. my annuity from fidelity means my retirement income is safe. it's guaranteed, no matter what happens. if guaranteed income for life sounds good to you, do what i did -- let fidelity be your guide.

call fidelity at... for details about guaranteed income for life. i'm contessa brewer. deputy mayors, rabbis in new jersey are under arrest in what's being called one of the biggest investigations in state history. it looks like an international money laundering conspiracy, public corruption. what are you looking at, jonathan? >> reporter: looking at all of it. they are literally carting the suspects away by the bus load here. 30 arrests so far. we're told the number could grow into the 40s when this operation is all said and done. public officials all across this state, we've got the mayor of hoboken, other public officials from the city of jersey city, these are all large communities

here in new jersey. all across the state, the fbi and irs agents have been out making these arrests. also as you said, community leaders of several rabbis arrested, in a money laundering scheme that totalled the tens of millions. we expect a news conference later today from the u.s. attorney and fbi officials here in newark to explain the exact nature of these charges. clearly this is one of the biggest, if not the biggest public corruption roundup in state history. that's saying a lot because in just the last few years, this state has seen more than 130 public officials convicted for various public corruption crimes. and now you've got 20-plus more being rounded up. that number is expected to grow as the hours continue here. back to you. >> we'll stay on top of it here at msnbc throughout the day. president obama is gearing up again today for another push for health insurance reform. today he heads to the cleveland clinic and will speak at a town hall just after 2:00 eastern.

he's trying to get coverage for the millions who don't have health insurance. a new gallup poll puts the number of uninsured americans at 16%. about 1 in 6 americans. that number has gone up slightly over the past year and a half. and dylan, back to you. >> thank you very much. i like how they got that graphic in there real quick on the way out. the fun thing is that -- i will get into it another day. we've got computers around here. up next on the "morning meeting," an innocent looking orphan that's adopted, cute and sweet and lovely, turns out to be unadulterated evil. annie meets psycho. why are so many people so upset about this? boycott talk. what's wrong with a murderous orphan, after all? a conversation right after this. undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather. (announcer) switch to the nation's fastest 3g network and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free. it's taken my time. it's like you're getting violated. it affects your whole well being. not just your name being used for something... or your social being used for something, it takes away from your life. take control of your identity. protect yourself with lifelock's proactive protection and our... $1 million total service guarantee. i feel very secure now that... i am becoming a lifelock member. you can live confidently knowing that with lifelock,

we help stop identity theft before it happens. and if our service doesn't work as intended, we'll help fix it at our expense... up to $1 million. you can take control of your identity. call now for special savings and we'll also give you... 30 days to try lifelock absolutely free. call now and mention id. call now or go to lifelock.com.

psycho, the world is not that happy about it. health care is a subject. the whole financial. we're in the break room for a second, we know you're talking about "annie meets psycho." >> little orphan annie, not suing. murder and mayhem on her mind. adoption agencies and politicians are calling for a boycott. they say the film perpetuates gross stereotypes about adoption. warner brothers essentially says, look, it's a movie. come on. the studio agreed to remove one line from its ad. >> it must be hard to love an adopted child as much as your own. think that was probably a good idea to take that one out. christians alliance for orphans launched a website, orphans deserve better. they want warner brothers to contribute a portion of proceeds

to the group. congress is weighing in. floor andrew from louisiana and five are her house and senate colleagues have written a letter to filmmakers asking them to depict foster children in the u.s. in a more realistic and boring manner. >> one is the responsibility of the entertainment industry and the portrayal of various classes of people, black, white, short, tall, skinny, whatever. that's what we're talking about here. the appropriate response if you don't like the characterization. are you there, jonathan? we have this exact conversation or a version about bruno. talking about gay lifestyle this and gay lifestyle that. enough with the gay lifestyle. >> terminology. >> it was brilliant. there's a gay life, and then there are a million lifestyles. that's a discretion of the individual, but the person, whether it's an orphan, a gay person, a black person, a white person, it was chosen for you.

you are what you are in that sense. >> right. >> what is your view, whether it's goes back to the bruno conversation or something like this of the responsibility relevancy of the entertainment -- you know the question. >> i think the studio was right to take that line out about it's harder to love an adopted child than your own. very smart. but, you know - >> that's smart for marketing. what's their responsibility here? >> i did think that sometimes we can take these things too far. remember, when we talked about bruno, i was not one of those people who said, one, that this was the big movie of the year for gay rights but i also wasn't one of those people who said this was a movie that should be boycotted. i finally went to see bruno on sunday. you know - >> make this relate to orphans. >> the ling to orphans is can we just relax a little? it's a movie. it's a movie. >> that's right. that's the point.

you're toeltally right. it's a movie, people. we're not saying all orphans are bad. if it's a documentary saying all these orphans are ganging up together to take over america -- >> i was an adopted child, hang on a second, i'm not going to adopt a child because they might kill me. >> hollywood in a broader sense. if you have multiple movies like we have where the arab is the villain, american arab. that's a problem. one movie where there's an orphan, come on. >> we get a murderous movie trend. jonathan, if this murderous orphan movie is profitable, will there be more? >> "annie 2," "annie 3." were their boycotts when

damien came out, chucky? i think chucky was a doll. never mind. >> you didn't say -- did you like bruno or did you not like bruno? >> no. bruno i thought was funny in parts especially when he was getting the beatdown from the dominate rix, other than that it was a grossed out teenaged boy movie. >> not the same as the -- like a touring capehart. >> i like that. >> maybe if the ratings tank on this one, we'll launch tape heart and you guys can review movies. >> actually, this is a good idea, actually. i think there's a show to be had there. still ahead on the second hour -- i'm not kidding -- of

the morning meeting -- i don't make any decisions, you understand that. following the money. we look at who's who. particularly who is against health care reform, who is lobbying for the status quo, and who actually wants some kind of a change and why are those who are against change, are those the people bankrolled by the health insurance companies? what's going on? you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500. more like a 900 v-twin. excuse me. well, you're excused. the right insurance for your ride. w, that's progressive. call or click today. but now they have new areas where i can find the brands

i use every day-- and save even more. so that's what they mean by unbeatable. save money. live better. walmart. does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control.

all right. good morning, welcome back. nice to see you. i am dylan. pleasure to be with you. second hour of the morning meeting under way. mr. capehart in d.c., contessa along to reset the agenda, the fight over health care is the top priority for this country right now whether anybody likes it or not. a lot of money pouring in from both sides. remember, laws are made in this country by those who have the most vested interest writing checks to lawyers to write

things or politician toss make into law. that's what's doing on. separating fact from fiction, we look at statements from the president on his health care reform plan. do they pass the truth test? are we even dealing with a common set of facts. we'll check that. the apple ipod, you may have one in your pocket, iphone, et cetera. is the computer giant not coming clean about past problems and is apple too secretive as a culture, to a fault. withholding information about the ceo's health, a variety of things. we'll have a conversation about the culture of secrecy at apple. america's most trusted anchor, the country has spoken, and, yes, it is, indeed, comedy central's jon stewart by a landslide? >> not you. >> no. they said dylan is the worst. jon stewart wins. i will say this. if you look at

the electoral college. if you look state by state, brian williams would have been the winner. jon won the popular vote but give electoral vote to brian. he deserves it. they both deserve it, who am i kidding. 10:00 a.m., let's get back to work. all right. we all know the president upping the stakes in the health care debate to a fever pitch now insisting the stars are aligned for reform. right now nbc news political director chuck todd at the white house for the president's prime-time news conference last night got in a couple of questions of his own. what a privilege to be able to directly question the president and chuck does it well. tell us your sense of where we go from here. what is the next step for this process? >> the next step at this point is, he did, i think, communicate that there's going to be a tax hike, but he made it seem like it's only going to be on the wealthiest. he only used the millionaire comment. he did indicate there's going to be some form of universal access

as far as coverage is concerned. it's universal coverage because it's going to be some sort of mandate. he used the word "mandate" last night. not a lot of people realize that. the third thing about this that we don't understand, how will the plan work. you brought this up earlier. how does the public insurance plan work. he didn't quite explain it. what he did do, i think a better job of explaining was -- or at least tried to do -- what happens if you don't do anything. what happens if there's inaction. take a listen to the one sound bite we have of him. >> if somebody told you that there is a plan out there that is guaranteed to double your health care cost over the next ten years, that's guaranteed to result in more americans losing their health care, and that is by far the biggest contributor to our federal deficit, i think most people would be opposed to that. well, that's the status quo.

that's what we have right now. >> the other part of this, the other audience last night, dylan, was congress and the politics of this thing. one of the things that he sort of tiptoed around the idea he's been using republicans as a boogie man on this but the fact is it's democrats standing in the way, which is one the questions i asked him. >> i've been a little frustrated by make of the misinformation that's been coming out of the republicans but that has to do with, as you pointed out politics. if you've got somebody out there saying not that let's get the best bill possible but instead says let's try to gain political advantage, that's not, i think, what the american people expect. >> reporter: but the reality brought up on the democratic side, dylan, which is going to frustrate a lot here, you have some democrats -- everything is

parochial at this point. you have some democrats in rural states worried about medicare reimbursement rates. they aren't going to like some parts of the plan. unless they get their way they are holding their vote hostage. that's what's complicating this thing more than anything else. >> if you look at the way the health insurance companies are behaving, the drug companies are behaving, the lobbying money is behaving, for me that is the most telling. you can see who is sending money to washington, d.c. trying to get this to happen and who is sending money to washington, d.c. to try to make sure this doesn't happen. those are your most motivated parties. we have looked a little into this. i want to share this with everybody else and then we'll talk about it. the people sending the most money to the president saying, listen, help us get this done. no surprise to aarp, the biggest user of health care, people older than any of us. problem is people like us don't save money, so there's no money for health care, which is why the system is screwball.

obviously the unions are on that list. the anti- people equally obvious. those annihilated, their profits in the crosshairs of whatever hairs. they are getting obliterated, sending money. also the drug companies, $5 million from pfizer, unitedhealth, $6 million, lilly. please jump in here. the balance of power about the health insurance and drug companies prevent this through their channels and senate and the people they bang roll in congress and those on the bankroll in the pro category. with respect the balance of power now? >> at this point i would split this on the opponent side, pharmaceutical company and insurance companies. the president last night singled

out pharmaceutical companies for praise. he did not do that with the insurance industry. >> exactly. >> i talked to some folks behind the scenes. this is their expectation, when a bill gets through the house and senate before it gets to the final vote but when they get a bill out of each house and negotiating starts, when the music stops, the industry, the stakeholder that's going to feel like they got screwed is going to be the insurance industry. translation, they will spend the most money and that's who the president is going to be up against. the president versus insurance. >> that's what we're looking at, jonathan capehart. if you look at united health care's stock, down two-thirds, etna lost two-thirds of its value. billions obliterated on the expectation of exactly what chuck was describing. how much power do the health insurance companies have left. how much gas to they have in the tank, whether get into baucus, somebody in congress to stop this thing.

american health insurance companies are about to get really, really, really restructured. >> right. but the problem they are facing is a public perception problem. the president hammered away at it last night by talking about the fact they are still making profits hand over fist while people are struggling. >> bingo. >> keep the insurance they have, who are denied coverage, losing coverage. >> the biggest issue is it's not competitive in the sense barriers are so high once they have them it's like building airplanes. it's like one of those things in business where the cost of getting in is so high and so difficult that once i have those barriers to entry, as opposed to me starting my website and you start a website, no barrier to entry, super high barriers to entry which means once i have them, which health insurance companies do, i'm like a landlord in the neighborhood collecting rent, a way to make a lot of money. >> the landlord doesn't want to lose them. but the problem is the landlord has a building filled with tenants that hate them and are

banding together to depose him, get rid of him and bring in someone new. the white house and president in particular understands this and are trying to turn the perception and tide against them and hoping that will make its way into congress and they can get something done. >> the other thing nice about this politically, chuck, doctors don't like health insurance companies, for reasons you know. the amount of money they make, they are going to have problems, which is obviously where the president is headed. >> reporter: possibly. there is one potential rescue plan for the insurance company and that is if this idea of a cop catches on, so that is sort of a government private partnership, a la utilities. >> that may reduce profitability. if they make that less profitable anyway. >> reporter: keeps them in the game potentially longer, at

least having a little more control over the process. the insurance industry will seek a co-op as a victory at this point. >> that will be so interesting to watch, health insurance lobbying money, which politicians are getting that money and how they behave after they get that money. rest of the news, contessa, what the heck is going on. >> during president obama's news conference he had harsh words over the arrest of one harvard scholar. they arrested the african-american professor after he forced a jammed door at his own home. a neighbor reported it as a break in. gates is demanding an apology for what he sees as racial apologizing. the officer says he has no plans to apologize. president obama acknowledged he didn't know all the facts and did not know whether race played a roll. >> i think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry. number two, that the cambridge police acted stupidly in

arresting somebody when there was already proof they were in their own home. >> we've reached out to the cambridge police department for a response to the president's remark. when we hear from them, we'll pass it along. >> you know, the sergeant crowley who arrested gates told the boston herald, hey, i gave mouth-to-mouth to reggie lewis, the famous celtic. that means i'm not racist. come on, man, if this is not a high-tech example of, hey, i've got a black friend, i'm not racist. kirstie alley says i love jamie foxx, i'm not racist. what are you talking about? it establishes -- >> the only thing i will say -- i agree with you. i do wonder -- i'm not defending the policeman necessarily but you're dealing with a very powerful harvard professor, who

has a massive ego, and he's in his own home. so he calls the police chief, apparently, and says, listen, you are kidding, right. >> gates said the police report is filled with lies. >> okay. so i'm going to back away from the whole thing completely because we obviously don't know the facts. jonathan, what's that? >> i'm laughing, both of you backed away completely from what you were saying. >> what i was saying, potentially -- i don't know the fa fact. >> the ego of the police is what we need to worry about. >> i'm not saying -- i would be like, are you kidding me? the officer saying you're not being deferential -- >> you get two or three tickets, i would get arrested, which is

the part of thing. jonathan knows that and i know that. to give him a little -- he's got to have a cop really push him in his house. >> that is the thing, he was in his home. home is supposed to be a safe place. for someone to come into your house, particularly a police officer, and demand id from you. you give it to them and still, you know, this altercation and you get arrested. >> there's no defending, again -- >> north korea announced it will not reenter six-party talks about the nuclear program and blasted the united states on its reaction. hillary clinton said north korea had no friends left. i'm not sure it cares but no friends left to protect it. >> does that mean china is out? that was the friend. china is north korea's friend implicitly. >> china was the one holdout on these sanctions. we'll see whether china goes

along. >> if hillary clinton says that, does that mean she knows china is out? is that what that implies? >> i don't know. she said north korea's nuclear ambition could provoke a nuclear arms race in that region because they want to protect themselves. secretary of state clinton will be david gregory's guess for the entire house of "meet the press" sunday. you want to watch for that. breaking news on the housing market. existing sales came up 3.6% in june. that could be a sign here that the housing market is recovering in some regions. yes, please, temper that optimism. >> the way to look is how many houses are we selling now compared to a year ago. not about this month versus last month. >> the third month of growth. >> understood but seasonably summer months always grow. >> numbers are adjusted for -- >> they are not. we're down 40 to 50% over last year. >> all right glass half empty. we're looking for a silver

lining. >> i understand. but we're better to say what the truth is. >> another thing that would add temperance, there are a lot of foreclosed homes on the market, a lot of prices dropped significantly. it makes it easier to buy houses if they are cheaper. >> be cautious with housing data. they look at last month. you shouldn't look at last month you should look at the same month a year ago. >> and we're still down. so much for the good news. i'm trying. >> the downer over here. >> unlike north korea, dylan has no friends. >> i was your china, by the way. >> i was china, too. >> you were russia. >> we'll go back to movie reviews. i'm sorry. coming up next here on the morning meeting, a conversation about apple and their secretive culture and then a fact check on the president from last night. fun with technology and questions about the president.

oh, yes, the most trusted anchor in america. jon stewart, although our friend brian williams won the electoral college vote so i'm going with brian. i like jon. we'll give one to matt lauer, too. three gold medals. >> vierra? >> her, too. >> we are back right after this. ♪ well i was shopping for a new car, ♪ ♪ which one's me - a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪

ever wonder how cheez-it bakes... so much real cheese in such small bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know. cheez-it. the big cheese. the first complete women's multivitamin in a drink mix. with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy.

with annuities from fidelity. turn your savings into income -- guaranteed, and get a retirement "paycheck" for life -- guaranteed. call... to get started, and learn how to secure retirement income that won't go down -- guaranteed. call fidelity at... for details about guaranteed income for life,

first withheld information about the health of its ceo now maybe about the product itself.

contessa on the secrecy of apple. >> with the hush-hush about steve jobs, there was a lot of speculation he might not be back. now apple -- >> nobody talked about it. >> nothing, mum, completely. now mum about reports of people getting burned by their ipods and not just pricewise. seattle tv station says 15 incidents where apple ipods burst into flames, started smoking and in some cases burned their owners. seattle's tv station said apple tried to hide it when the reporter tried to get documents from the consumer safety administration. they ended up with more than 800 pages of documents detailing the malfunction. so far, guess what, apple staying quiet. >> and again the 15 who cares. there's such a small number. interesting, again, if the accusations are true, every time she tried to get the information

apple's lawyers filed exemption after exemption after exemption where apple has a culture of trying to quash information it perceives to be dangerous to the brand or dangerous to the company in some way. >> disney does the same thing. >> maybe not to the same extent, though. >> the question is -- >> in china this was an official investigation now, because it looks like a security working entrusted with protecting apple's closely guarded secrets actually committed suicide. the worker jumped 12 stories to his death last week. he was accused of stealing an i-phone for ge prototype. apple was saddened by the loss of the young employee. >> i've got you guys. >> i want to bring the editor at large, somebody i've been discussing apple with for years now. usually the stock, now we're

going to talk about the corporate culture. is this an invented issue people like myself concoct to try to talk about apple or is apple a company that goes out of its way to crush information it perceives to be potentially damaging? there is a point where they have crossed the line. >> it's the latter. this is a very, very aggressive company when it comes to managing the message and running the room. as you guys were discussing, a matter of degree, yes, but they have the ultimate degree of wanting to control what gets out, when it gets out and how information is portrayed about the firm. a lot of this comes down from mythology of apple, which is the steve jobs, the whole company is seen -- >> that's fine. everybody entitled to proprietary technological development. but if there are consumer safety issues you're trying to quash, that crosses the line. if there are meaningful

executive risks because of the a material situation in the executive suite that would cause them not to serve and i'm using billions of dollars of other people's money to make my gadgets, that also is not acceptable. i don't understand why apple feel its appropriate not only to take the proprietary secret of their product and cross into crush that information of any kind even if it's consumer threat and financial market threat. >> the rumor out there, fcc is nosing around. how did they handle the situation about steve jobs' health. it kept getting worse in terms of what they would reveal until we finally realized what it was. he a transplant for crying out loud. the problem is apple has done really well during all this. >> of course. it's a good product. >> you better pack a lunch, because their performance has been great. where is the material harm to

stockholders. if they had a bad period, there's blood in the water. not sure how far that will go. in terms of the devices, it's a small number. we have to watch to see if there's a greater number that comes out as a result of these batteries. >> jonathan, are you there? go ahead. >> do you have a question for me? no. >> does steve jobs have to tell us how sick he is, what's going on with him? a private matter. only if his sickness deprives him of the ability of running the company, his running of the company perceived to be critical to the value of the company. >> he was still with the group. >> if i'm giving money to you to run a group, you're obliged if you want to use my billion dollars -- >> we don't own steve jobs, it's the company. >> that's the whole point with brian, they sell steve jobs but they don't want to be

accountable for steve jobs. they are selling the company. no, they are selling steve jobs but we don't want to talk about steve jobs, that's where we run into trouble. i don't know what your view is jonathan, in general, about corporations -- the line for corporate secrets basically. some of those make sense. boeing making airplanes, all those things that are valid. the culture of corporate secrets breaches into either social irresponsibility, financial market irresponsibility or criminalality. >> corporate secrets are never good. as you were saying if it deals with propriety information or prototype, but trying to get safety information, that's wrong. seems to me apple is exhibiting a lot of the same behaviors that got microsoft into trouble. used to be everyone talked about the secrecy of microsoft and how apple was more pure in that

sense. now apple is doing the same thing. they are doing all these things, i would presume, to protect their share price. if they cross the line of being secretive for secrecy's sake it will have a negative -- >> the whole idea of branding, controlling the rest of it, apple is vulnerable to the same perceptions. take a break. back on the president, news conference, health care, a fact check from the president's news conference. then sopranos in real life. a huge bust in new jersey. multiple town mayors. religious leaders. it's almost better than the sopranos. we'll talk about it. come on in. you're invited to the chevy open house. where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models.

you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 silverado xfe with an epa estimated 21 mpg highway for under 28 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details. including who i trust to look after my money. ♪ (woman) the dust might be settling... that's great, but i'm not. ♪ (second man) i guess i'm just done with doing nothing, you know? ♪ (third man) oh, i'm not thinking about moving my money. i am moving it. tdd# 1-800-345-2550

all right. welcome back. health care the big topic, the

president trying to bring toyota a fevered pitch and with good reason. let's do fact checking on the president's big press conference. also thought it would be fun to talk about the press conference itself. we talked with chuck about it a little bit and the privilege it is to be in that room asking questions. by my eyes last night the questions were very good. jonathan capehart coming into the conversation. we have a string of questions here. take a listen. if you have health insurance, the reform we're proposing will provide you with more security and stability, keep government out of health care decisions giving you the option to keep your insurance if you're happy with it. >> that obviously was not a question but an answer. but it was a good answer jonathan. i'll come back when we have sound bites of questions but his

answer is effective but not new. >> no. >> maybe not effective for that reason. >> well, look, they are not new because we've been paying attention to what he's been saying and the administration has been saying from the beginning, the mantra the government is not going to dictate to you which doctor you have to choose and which plan you have to choose and that sort of thing. but he was able to leap over the folks at capitol hill that are rig to put together these bills and talk directly to the american people. i think the problem that the president has. the problem is you have a president so engaged on top of the nitty-gritty detail on what he would like to accomplish, even though he's not writing the bill much to the consternation of the people on the hill that he gets bogged down to the point people's eyes might glaze over.

>> let me put a question to you and put it to dylan, too. one of the big lines of the night is when the president said it's not about me. it seems it is about him. let's talk about it as a political issue. is it the power he has in d.c. right now. this is a referendum on his ability to do what he says he wants to do. his rhetoric has been tremendous but a mixed bag on effectiveness and yields six months in. >> it is about him. >> it is about him and it's not. he was responding to the attack line, this will be his waterloo and we can bring him down. i take it at a press conference earlier in the way, he said, think about that. american people are trying to hang onto health insurance or get health insurance and this is what we're trying to do but

you've got these people with no plans trying to bring it down. in that sense new york city, it's not about him. as he says, it's about the american people. where it is about him, this is his single signature dom particular policy agenda he wants to get done. the clock is ticking down, the administration knows come january 1, 2010, dynamics change. everyone will be focused on the midterm election. that's why he's driving hard. a failure here could have a domino affect on other issues. >> i'm a little cold to -- when he talks about the family with the girl with leukemia, he's not emotional, he's not naming them like clinton or reagan would have done. >> >> you pointed out cri, not

have a dream speech. going to the moon, health care, i want to get rid of anybody who says we're not going to do it. i'm not prepared to say how we should do. i want to obliterate anybody that says we're not going to the moon in the sense anybody says not reforming health care is not an option. he did not give that "i have a dream" rallying speech. >> could he have done it. as the folks in the white house will tell you, this isn't the end of the process, this is the beginning of the process. they are trying to get a bill done and then you've got the conference process, then you've got the battle of actually trying to pass the thing. they are still trying to give that "i have a dream" speech where he rallies the country to his side. could he have done it yesterday, sure. but it's not exactly -- >> i agree with you, jonathan. i get it. he could have. it could have been more effective. at the same time he has elevated the conversation. the only issue is whether the ratings go off a cliff because they are all talking about

health care and that forces the conversation out of the tv. i'm telling you. >> you mention that every day this week and yet we still keep coming back to health care. i think that speaks more to, you know, the mission of the show but also why this is important to talk about. >> i'm not saying just this show. health care is bad for ratings. >> it's bad for ratings but not talking about it is bad for the american people so i think we still need to keep talking about it. >> talk about in the way that's accessible and interesting enough that we don't lose the eyeballs. >> i'm still awake. >> god bless you for it. speaking of staying awake, president obama awake all the time. this time on the deficit. take a listen to his comments on the deficit impact of health care and then we'll see whether in fact what he's saying is, in fact, true. >> i've also pledged health insurance reform will not add to our deficit over the next decade and i mean it. in addition to making sure this plan doesn't add to the deficit in the short-term, the bill i

signed must also slow the growth of health care costs in the long run. >> true or false, the facts are the president has said repeatedly that he wants deficit neutral health care legislation meaning that every dollar increasing cost is met with a dollar of new revenue or a dollar of savings. but some things are more neutral than others. white house budget director peter orszag told reporters it does not apply to spending, $225 over the next decade increase fees for doctors serving medicare patients. the debate will go on and on as to the deficit impact of all this. it's beyond me why we're arguing who is paying when we haven't even gotten into how we're going to do it. it frustrates me to no end. obviously they want to talk about paying for it. they want to keep the new york knicks in business, jonathan, they never make the payoffs and keep writing checks. >> the analogy going all week because it's apt, it works,

dylan. look, to talk about how this is going to be paid for and how much this is going to cost might seem a bit premake sure because exactly as chuck said we don't know how this is going to work. once we know how it's going to work, then we'll be able to know how much it's going to cost and then we will get numbers from the office that reflect what will really happen. right now we're forecasting and modeling. >> we open with a cost debate, republicans say don't do it, it costs too much, forces the democrats into a silly position of saying a moral high ground argument as opposed to a solution. we all sit here. anyway, contessa, i want to get done with health care because you have information out of new jersey. >> you are not going to believe it. >> i want to hear it. >> are you ready? this breaking news we're getting about the massive arrest in new jersey as many as 30 prominent public officials arrested this morning across the state. there's a corruption probe, an international money laundering charge.

now separate from the corruption probe, it looks like some of the suspects charged they were connected to an illegal human organ selling ring. >> no, stop. you're saying the rabbis and politicians of new jersey are being accused of selling organs, body organs. >> can we bring in the guy writing about this? >> yes. >> w nbc's jonathan dienst is covering this. >> a great investigative reporter. >> he's grachlt here is the information he's giving me. investigators say some of those charged will take cash payments to help find organs for sick patients in need of transplants. that's typically what black market organs prfr i go to a politician with influence, i give him or her a check and that contribution is for the organ. >> this is taking cash payments to help finding organs for sick patients. we'll find one, don't worry. if you've got the money --

>> you get me a liver. >> it's unclear whether he's saying the body parts might have come from or how many surgeries might have been done. you have the fbi, irs, state attorney involved. they are going to give a news conference. the mayors of secaucus, hoboken, that make up the metro area on the north side. not just corruption, international money laundering ring but now looks like trafficking in organs. >> a black market for human organs being run by american politicians in new jersey and american religious leaders. is the accusation. >> we will keep an eye. when that news conference happens -- >> what time? >> i don't know. >> we'll try to get jonathan dienst on the phone at noon. but jonathan i'm sure will be around a lot working the story. >> okay. we're also seeing reports today

that osama bin laden's son was killed in a u.s. missile strike in pakistan this year. the 27-year-old was not the target of the attack but killed when the predator drone fired a mission at the al qaeda target in western afghanistan. for the first time we're getting to see exactly what happened when two light rail trains crashed in san francisco. video taken from a security camera on the platform. first train in the section, second barreling in. the operator told investigators he plakd out before tblacked ou. dylan. >> the organ story will be the story. second of all, for all the talk about politicians their desire not to reveal what's going on inside the government, whether the money in the federal reserve, how the stimulus money is spent, any of the systems -- they use a 19th century to hide activity inside, 20th century environment to find out what's going on. you wonder why people get so

excited to find out. when you find out stuff like this, whether it's blagojevich or this nonsense and they don't want to tell us something simple like where the money is. >> by the way legendary for corruption. >> we're back with a celebration of jon stewart and for that matter brian williams. a new poll puts the comedian on top of the most trusted news anchors out there but we argue brian williams may be right there with him. he did, in fact, win the electoral vote, if they had one. but the popular vote when to mr. stewart. he rated pretty well on the electoral college. we are back. trust in the news after this. you have questions. who can give you the financial advice you need? where will you find the stability and resources to keep you ahead of this rapidly evolving world? these are tough questions. that's why we brought together two of the most powerful names in the industry. introducing morgan stanley smith barney.

here to rethink wealth management. here to answer... your questions. morgan stanley smith barney. a new wealth management firm with over 130 years of experience.

quarter till the hour we're watching big breaking news on wall street. dow jones industrials hit the 9,000 mark. we haven't seen that in months. we're keeping our eye on it now. more morning meeting after this. if you're taking 8 extra-strength tylenol...

a day on the days that you have arthritis pain, you could end up taking 4 times the number... of pills compared to aleve. choose aleve and you could start taking fewer pills. just 2 aleve have the strength... to relieve arthris pain all day.

barack obama has been president now for six months. six months he's been president. and the fairies that we were sure would ride in on his wings and solve all our problems have

yet to materialize. where are the world fixing fairies, obama? >> that, of course, comedian and host of "the daily show" talking politics and the president. yes, he's a funny guy. now there's proof of his coverage that's no joke, got to pay attention to it. a new poll says jon stewart is the most trusted newscaster in america, except he's not really a newscaster, people. get this, he beat out news heavyweight brian williams to my chagrin, for the title and it wasn't close. "the daily show" host took 44% of those cast online. he got more than charlie gibson and katie couric online. >> this is who do i like more. this is who do i like more? >> it's not scientific because it's based on who would answer these kind of polls because maybe it's skews.

>> his lack of pretense makes people think i can trust him. he doesn't pretend to be objective. i think the modern generation doesn't believe in objectivity. >> i'd like to change this conversation if i can. trust is one thing, funny is another. and i will argue that brian williams is actually funnier than jon stewart. he can beat jon stewart at his own game given the opportunity. take a look at this. >> i know i'm often seen as a stiff, a guy who is always in anchorman mode, but tonight -- going to work near here in the same building, you have to

adjust. >> out of i won't call it -- all by way of saying welcome and we're happy to have you. >> nightly news with brian williams. >> take that. we're back with a takeaway right after this. introducing one a day women's 2o. the first complete women's multivitamin in a drink mix. with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy. [ thud ] [ woman sighs ] [ horn honks ] [ sigh ] a lot goes through your mind after an accident. but with liberty mutual, insurance issues won't, because we offer unlimited rental coverage, new car replacement, and accident forgiveness to help ease your mind. and that's our policy.

liberty mutual insurance.

all right. welcome back. just when we thought health care was getting to be a little too much, too dense, tedious, too tv unfriendly, some friends of ours who are mayors and rabbis in new jersey apparently got into a black market for organs and were in a sting this morning sopranos style. politicians accepting bribes to get you a liver transplant, that's a health care plan we could improve on. carlos watson about to pick

thing up as msnbc for us. >> here is to black market organs, that's the way to do health care. real liver, real people in new jersey. >> obama, tough times. whar we doing the next hour? bringing in the ultimate presidential adviser, vernon jordan comes in and talks about exactly what needs to happen. also some fresh breaking news since last night's press conference. chuck todd joins us with that. i don't know if you've heard joe biden, going to get much worse. we'll talk about that next hour. don't go anywhere. you like samuel l. jackson you have to love "msnbc live" with carlos watson. don't go anywhere. haley barbour, rudy giuliani straight ahead. don't do the black market organ anywhere. >> i didn't see this in the health care plan. >> coming soon. >> that will be the revised proposal. >> phase two. if you've got enough money we'll

get you a liver. >> all straight ahead. a quick break. "msnbc live" coming right back at you. has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can book travel plans faster, check my account balances faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than andy roddick. (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" "and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free". (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" car insurance company in the nation. but, it's not like we're kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing... gecko vo: ...but i do work hard, mind you. gecko vo: first rule of "hard work equals success." gecko vo: that's why geico is consistently rated excellent or better in terms of financial strength. gecko vo: second rule: "don't steal a coworker's egg salad, 'specially if it's marked "the gecko."

come on people. people notice my devotion to family. people notice my love for animals. my smile. my passion for teaching. my cool car. people notice i'm a good friend and a good listener. people notice that i'm a good boss. people notice my love of nature. people notice i can fix anything. (announcer) thanks to miracle-ear what people don't notice about you is your hearing aid because, look closely, our hearing aids are nearly invisible. our exclusive line of open fit products are so lightweight, so small and so natural sounding even you won't know you're wearing one. you know, most people don't know how good or bad their hearing is... they just know when they're missing things or hearing words incorrectly. miracle-ear can help. with a quick, free hearing test. miracle-ear has been helping folks for nearly 60 years. we're the number one choice in hearing aids. get your free hearing test today. it can change your hearing-- and your life-- for the better.

(announcer) call now. our simple process can have you hearing better than you ever thought possible. and our full range of products are designed to suit your needs and your budget. people notice my zest for life. my great sense of humor. what sense of humor? people notice my beautiful wife! (announcer) let people see the best in you, nothing more nothing less. try a nearly invisible hearing aid at a nearby miracle-ear location. every miracle-ear hearing aid is backed by a risk-free 30-day money-back guarantee. find out for yourself what has made miracle-ear a household name for better hearing, miracle-ear. what will your miracle sound like? call 1-800-336-4990 to schedule your free hearing test or for a free information kit with complete details about hearing loss and how we can help you. call 1-800-336-4990 to take one of these easy steps toward better hearing. that's 1-800-336-4990

call now! this isn't about me. i have great health insurance and so does every member of congress. this is about every family and every business and every taxpayer who continues to shoulder the burden of a problem that washington has failed to solve for decades. this is not a game for these americans and they can't afford to wait any longer for reform. good morning and welcome to a brand-new hour of "msnbc live." i'm carlos watson. after making his health care plea in prime time, president obama hits the road to talk directly to the american public. but back at washington the fate of the sweeping overhaul hangs in the balance with momentum building against the president's plan. plus a republican finally found someone to lead them out of the wilderness. this hour we'll talk with mississippi governor haley

barbour about the future of the gop and his plans for 2012. how far has the country come and how much further do we still need to go. breaking developments we're following right now. there are reports the 27-year-old son of osama bin laden has been killed, the son of osama bin laden, reports he's been killed in a u.s. missile strike in pakistan. good morning, i'm carlos watson. we have a power-packed hour ahead. my special co-host vernon jordan the ultimate presidential adviser. he'll join me for the hour. exclusive conversation with a number of others. first we fast forward to top stories. this morning secretary of state hillary clinton says north korea is running out of options to keep us from crippling sanctions. also new word from north korea that it's returning to six-party disarmament talks. >> the north koreans said in the meeting today that they have

been subjected to nuclear weapons on the korean peninsula aimed at them that hasn't happened for decades. so i think they are living in a historical time period that doesn't reflect today's reality. we are very open to a positive relation with north korea on the condition that they denuclearize. >> north korea reconsider. big boards on wall street, continues to respond to u.s. jobless rate. employment data from the labor department shows benefits rose 30,000 to adjusted 544,000. meanwhile total unemployment fell to the lowest since april, north of 9,000, new territory. authorities hoping a third interview with the doctor with michael jackson when he died will shed light on his death.

they raided his office thursday. there's growing speculation authorities are rapidly preparing for what could become a criminal investigation. a los angeles county coroner's office official said hundreds of employees in the office and others improperly viewed the death certificate. investigation into that is under way. as you know when you watch "msnbc live" i have a special co-host. not only co-host but vernon jordan, a best selling author, sets on a number of boards. pleasure to have you. >> pleased to be here, carlos, thank you. >> good to see you. got to ask you right away about president obama and the prime time press conference he had yesterday. what were your thoughts? you think he moves at all on the major health care battle? >> this was a negotiating speech with congress. it does not appease your colleagues and the media