arrest of harvard professor henry louis gates. we're expecting a news conference from the cambridge police department at any moment now, but with us now is lynn sweet of the "chicago sun times" who asked the president about the gates arrest at last night's news conference. we have the top reporter for "the new york times," helene cooper. the author of "the house of sugar beach." here is the cambridge police department holding the presser. >> i will turn it over to the commissioner. >> i am going to read a short statement. then i will be available for questions. thank you for being here. i realize this is an issue that attracted attention of many people across the country. i appreciate the seriousness of the events of july 16th and the need for people to hear from me directly. none more so than the cambridge

police department and the members of this community. i stand behind this department and all the people that work in the city every day to ensure the safety of its residents. this is a difficult time for the department. sergeant crowley, and his family. this department has worked hard to continually improve its reputation in the community. i am proud of the relationships we have built with community groups, community leaders, and the residents of an economically, educationally, and ethically diverse city. i will continue my commitment to the city to lead a department whose mission is to serve the city and to do everything in my power to keep it safe. i believe that sergeant crowley acted in a way consistent with his training at the department and consist went national standards of law enforcement protocol. i do not believe his actions in any way were racially motivated. i have long held the view that every interaction has potential to teach us lessons in how we

conduct ourselves both professionally and personally. i certainly feel that way now. i believe that everyone regretted this incident even occurred. i cannot imagine the outcome is one that anyone is happy with, and i am confident that we will find ourselves in a much better place after we have greater perspective. i believe -- i am also mindful every day how easy it is to evaluate an incident after it has occurred and make judgments. this is an opportunity to re-examine our policies and procedures, and i am confident that goodwill come out of this unfortunate situation that we deeply regret occurred. i'm in the process of forming a panel of independent notable professionals to join us in an analysis of the july 16th incident and i invite them to review the entire incident, make recommendations on improvements that can be made. i look forward to that process and i want to reassure the community that the department will make records, documentation of staff available for that panel. i anticipate that this will be a

way for the community to provide input and a final report will be available for public review. in the meantime, i believe we should let the process develop and i ask the media to be respectful of the crowley family. i will take a few questions. >> reporter: if sergeant crowley has done nothing wrong, what can you learn from this? what can you do differently? >> every time we look at a situation and a situation of this magnitude i believe there was always a better way of doing something in the future. it would be a mistake not to take this opportunity to re-examine it and figure out how to do things in a better way so he can deescalate situations. >> the president of the united states called the action of the cambridge police department they acted, quote, stupidly. your response to the president of the united states. >> my response is this department is deeply pained and takes its professional pride seriously. the department is basically very much taking this seriously and i think again at the end of this process we'll have a much stronger police department because of the crisis. >> what about what the president

said though, commissioner? >> i think it deeply hurts the pride of this agency and we take our professional careers seriously. >> if sergeant crowley acted by the book and you stand by what he did, why did you drop the charges? >> we basically felt that this was a situation that we needed to move on from, and that we didn't want this to be a prolonged situation and we needed to focus back on what we do in terms of providing safety and protection for this community. >> reporter: professor gates has called your sergeant crowley a rogue cop. he did so on national television. >> sergeant crowley is a stellar member of this department. i rely on his judgment every day. he's got a long career. he grew up in a diverse community. i don't consider him a rogue cop. he was thrust into a situation, a crime in progress and he tried to work his way through that situation. >> reporter: has there been any complaints against him in the past? >> we are checking our records

now. >> reporter: how about any commendations? >> sergeant crowley has been widely recognized. he's one of our certified instructors in the department and again he's got a job with responsibility and he exercised a great deal of independent judgment every day. >> reporter:. >> we're going to cut back from that. it seems to me lynn sweet and helene cooper, that the cambridge police department is taking this serious, they're standing by their man, sergeant crowley who was engaged in that incident. let's go back to what we take care of here, as that commission makes its report in the next couple days and weeks. the president of the united states. you raised the question last night, you asked it. here is what president obama said last night after your question about the arrest of professor gates. let's listen. >> the police are doing what they should, there's a call, they go investigate what happens. my understanding is at that

point professor gates is already in his house. the police officer comes in. i'm sure there's some exchange of words, but my understanding is that professor gates then shows his i.d. to show this is his house, and at that point he gets arrested for disorderly conduct. charges which are later dropped. >> well, lynn, the president, were you surprised he was so engaged and took -- basically took sides in this case on the side of the professor against the police saying they acted stupidly, saying that the professor provided his i.d. although the police report says he did not initially provide his i.d. said that the man lost his keys when in fact he hadn't cost -- he got a couple facts wrong last night, the president, apparently. >> i was supposed he used that stupidly phrase. i followed him for so many years. he's usually so in control. to see something -- to say something that is a kind of radioactive phrase that could

just hurl out into the talk show and blogosphere universe and also you could be judgmental without having used that kind of language. i knew that professor gates was a friend of his. i knew that obama had lived in cambridge when he was in law school. i knew that he did, as he reminded all of us when he talked about it, that he had spent many years dealing with profiling issues in the state senate, but even so i was surprised with the passion and emotion that he brought to this answer. >> here is what the president said. lynn, you cover the president all the time. he said i have to say i'm surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement because i think it was pretty straightforward commentary. you probably don't need a handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane who is in his own home. the white house also put the statement the president was not saying that the officer, crowley, the secretary was in fact stupid. the situation got out of hand so. they're softening their criticism. >> yeah, but they are still also backing up what he said. they didn't -- i don't think they walked away from his

criticism very much at all today, not when robert gibbs talked to reporters on air force one on the way to cleveland this afternoon and not when president obama repeated it later today in an interview. i thought it was really interesting how comfortable president obama sounded after listening to that hour-long interview where he basically filibustered with so many of these health care questions and we were practically falling asleep. he had his talking points prepared and he got to lynn's question and for that first time in the entire hour he sounded on point. it was as if you were talking to him in a bar. it was like you and i are in a bar and we were talking, what do we think about this? in a lot of way it is seemed almost refreshing after listening to the health care -- >> i got a lot of flack today from readers who thought my question was inappropriate because i should have asked another question on health care. this was not a press conference called where everyone had to ask health care questions. it was just a press conference. >> what kind of -- >> i had it from -- >> were they anti-obama or

pro-obama? >> it came from both ends. people who wanted the obama agenda to get advanced in congress thought that i created a distraction and people that were against obama thought that i was a plant, which by the way i was not and the white house had no idea what i would ask. >> yeah. i wouldn't take those comments too seriously. i wouldn't even read them. >> the white house officials did say today this they expected that at some point president obama would get asked about the gates issue. >> let me ask you -- we are leading the show because it's got legs as we say in the journalism business. he weighed in on what could have been a criminal case. i'm thinking back to richard nixon and the manson case when the president got in tribl for venturing any opinion. should a president be venturing fax actual claims about a case involving potential criminal

charges? >> you would say no. he could have stood up for his friend and -- he started to say the right thing, i really don't know the facts but, and then he said the acted stupidly which i thought said he came to the conclusion -- >> i don't know about that. i don't want to get into the position of opining on this, but i think at some point you're the president of the united states. if somebody asks you a question, as you did, you want him to answer it, and he did. >> and that i appreciate, but if you're looking at the part did he go too far for somebody that's usually measured no drawing the conclusion of what happened, maybe he did. >> but i think that underestimates the anger in the black community over this. there are a lot of people who when you've lived in sort of that skin for that long, you dealt with racial profiling, i think it's really easy to say that a president should be measured in his response and i think a lot of what he did spoke -- >> let me admit, i respond to

the rorschach test like everybody else on earth. when you hear about something and you weren't there, you make your own judgments and project our own life experience into that squation. i think the president did that. everybody does that. >> here is what make this is very different. of all the people in the world, just think, this was a situation that involved someone he actually knew, the lawyer he got, charles ogel ost tree is very close to the obamas. this is not an abstract case. >> thank you, guys. thank you lynn sweet. thank you, helene cooper. coming up, cheney versus bush. "time" magazine reports today that in the last days of the bush presidency, former vice president dick cheney got in president bush's face pushing him hard for a pardon for his long-time chief of staff scooter libby. the white house staff thinks he may have been part a cover-up, talking about the vice president

who wanted the cover-up to continue by getting his guy a pardon. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. (announcer) roundup extended control does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months.

roundup extended control. coming up, why did the so-called birthers continue to ignore the facts about president obama's citizenship? radio talk show host gordon liddy will join us ahead on "hardball." where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 silverado xfe with an epa estimated 21 mpg highway for under 28 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details.

welcome back to "hardball." time magazine's cover story out today. a special report of the final days of the bush and cheney administerings. it describes a vice president obsessed with convincing the president to give his aide, his top aide, scooter libby, a pardon. and it shows a strained relationship between bush and cheney in those final days. michael duffy is assistant managing editor of "time" and david corn is the bureau chief for mother joans and a columnist for congressional quarterly. here is an excerpt from his piece on the concern about a cover-up. quote, and there was a darker possibility.

as a former bush senior aide explains, quote, i'm sure the president and josh bolten, the president's chief of staff, were afraid, had a concern, and fred fielding, of course, the president's counsel, had a concern somewhere deep in there was a cover-up. your piece is pretty astounding. it says the vice president of the united states was involved in a cover-up of his behavior by trying to get a pardon for his chief of staff because his chief of staff was covering for him. >> i think even the white house wasn't entirely sure. that's what that quote suggests. that when it came to the moment the third time that officials had sought a pardon for scooter libby, once in 2007, once in 2009, and then on the very last four or five days of the bush era, president bush had several concerns about whether it was true. one, did he show any repentance, did he show any remorse? two, did he lie or not? and three at the back of their minds, one official said, they weren't sure if scooter libby

hadn't taken the fall for his boss. >> this goes to the question of why we went to war with iraq. he was in deep all the way with everything cheney did. cheney wanted him pardoned because cheney wants him free and not sitting back there without his law license maybe wanting to write a book some day to provide for his own future. >> cheney is the only person i think in washington who can say with conviction that scooter libby is an innocent man as the piece in "time" showed even people within the bush administration, you asked the question did scooter libby lie to the fbi, that's what he was tried for. did he lie to the fbi and they all came to the conclusion that basically, yeah, he did. you raise the point why did he lie? it was dick cheney who told scooter libby that valerie plame worked for the counter proliferation -- >> that's what -- >> that's not a new fact, that cheney was the one who told

scooter libby where she worked an recallier scooter libby had been rounding up information about valerie wilson. then when the investigators come along a couple months later, he says, i heard it from tim s russert. and why he was convicted, he said he completely forgot that dick cheney ever talked to him about this and then when he heard it from tim russert, it was like he was learning it for the first time. a jury listened to him say that. they said that's baloney. that's why he was convicted. >> let's talk about where this ends. the president said no to him. >> three times. >> the president said no. do you have a sense from your reporting that the president believed that scooter libby and the vice president were in cahoots on trying to out valerie wilson as a cia agent as part of the effort to cover up basically the whole question of why we went to war with iraq? >> there's some evidence in the grand jury testimony as it came out in the trial that perhaps the vice president and libby

actually asked bush to come to scooter's defense at the time in 2003. it's not clear, and i don't know, we don't know whether bush was aware that that was incorrect, whether he found out later, whether he cares even now. what's clear is that when it came time to decide to cut this guy a second break under considerable pressure from the vice president, pressure that was really unrelenting, he declined. >> here is a guy, scooter libby, who came down to washington, gave up a big white shoe law firm practice in philadelphia. he could have made a lot of money. he wanted to come down here and become one of those wise men, one of those people who basically stood up for america for no money. good guys. he came down to play that role. he's a bit to the right. he served this president and vice president. he didn't tell the truth to the prosecutors for one reason, because he didn't want to tell what was going on in the administration. he wasn't out robbing gas stations at night. he wasn't doing something else outside the line of duty.

he was performing his political duty on behalf of this administration. even the vice president said don't leave one of our combatants in the field. so he admitted he was part of the team. so if the president knows he was part of the team, knew he was doing the business of the team, then he knows he was lying for the team. that's the obvious fact here. >> the president doesn't want to acknowledge he was lying to protect the president's number one guy, which is dick cheney. i mean, dick cheney says you don't leave someone on the team, but scooter libby took a bullet for dick cheney. >> why? >> i think there were two reasons. i think the overarching reason is he just didn't want to admit that dick cheney and he were trying to dig up whatever they could find on joe wilson and it led to his wife to discredit joe -- >> this is going to help that movie a lot, your story, because if this opens up the whole wound again about scooter libby and we're reminded of this horrible story, how we get talked into the war with phony wmd, how they

get upset for the fact the cia was blaming them for the phony wmd, so they start blaming the cia, including valerie wilson of the cia. >> there's a question of possible legal liability. leaking valerie wilson's name was a possible federal offense. scooter libby had to worry about his role in that and had to worry about what dick cheney's role in that was, too. wasn't just covering up a political act. it was covering up a possible crime. so he took one not for the team. he took one for his leader, being cheney, not bush, and i think cheney is being somewhat of a standup guy. i think he's delusional when he says scooter libby was an innocent person. >> when sean penn shows up showing joe wilson in the movies, i think the public will know who the good guy is. >> hollywood gets the last word. >> they do, don't they? let me ask you about any other story coming out of this. >> a little one nots a important or interesting as this.

but this does reflect a difference of views after the presidency this. fight that takes place in the final 72 hours, 36 hours, does reflect how they are going to behave and perform after -- >> how they differ. bush comes back to do the library. what is cheney -- >> he comes right back into the fray. he moves right into the washington think tank in a few weeks. >> year not calling the american institute a think tank are you? >> he was first in a transition office but went right back in the fray. started attacking the newed a mrths -- >> so he's going to be the -- he's holding sat lolons and soi. there used to be a time when people left office and left town. this guy sticks around. he's freddy kruger. not really. maybe, maybe he's worse. michael, david, thank you. up next, jon stewart takes on the birthers, the right wing crazies, who don't think barack obama is one of us. they can't handle the fact he

won the election so they're saying he's not an american. that's their argument. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. r brand... of pain reliever. tylenol rapid release gels... release medicine fast. so you can stop headaches... and feel better fast. has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can book travel plans faster, check my account balances faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than andy roddick. (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" "and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free". body wash from olay. tone enriching ribbons. two separate ribbons. the white cleanses. the gold moisturizes and has a touch of mineral shimmer to enhance skin's tone. olay tone enriching body wash.

for skin that shimmers.

back to "hardball." time for the "sideshow." first up, speaking of the birther movement. comedy central's jon stewart carried the conspiracy theory to its logical roots last night showing the ends to which some people believe -- must believe that other people went to get this fellow into the white house. he calls it the old kenyan prince birth announcement scam. here it is. >> here is how it goes. you want to destroy america from the inside, but you can't because you're a foreigner. so first you got to find yourself a good old american willing to reproduce with you. then you have that child on foreign soil while

simultaneously placing the birth announcement for that child in one of our fringe states' local newspapers. your hawaiis, your alaskas, your pennsylvanias. you heard me. all right. and then -- kidding. and then -- hold on -- you wait. until this baby is a middle-aged man. now the trap is set. you just sit back and let that child go out and win the election for president of the united states. >> thanks, jon. next up, corruption in jersey. early today in energy the fbi arrested about 40 people in a sweeping money laundering sting, including the mayors of hoboken and secaucus and a state legislator and several rabbis.

what is it about the new jersey waterfront? for tonight's big number. a sign of the times. dur last time's prime time press conference how many times did the president mention the words iraq or afghanistan? zero. nada. none. what a difference a year makes. all eyes on the health care bill. we have lost 35 troops in afghanistan this month. but no mention of that, zero mentions of the words overseas, tonight's "big number." zero. up next, back to the birthers, those crazies on the far right who continue to question president obama's american imp, americanness, despite the overwhelming proov barack obama was born in america. we'll ask one of the birth eer movement's most prominent members, g. gordon liddy. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. lose your job. your health insurance shouldn't either.

so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on. s shopping for ♪ which one's me - a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪

♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪ are enjoying the new palm pre with its revolutionary web os. they're running multiple live applications at the same time. - ( thunder and rain ) - 3 million are using the simply everything plan. each is saving $1200 - over an at&t iphone plan. - ( cash register dings ) together that's over $3 billion. - enough to open a dunkin' donuts in space. - ( walk-talkie sounds ) from america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. get the palm pre from sprint. only on the now network.

i'm rebecca jarvis with your cnbc market wrap. a solid rally sends the dow above 9000 for the first time since january, and the nasdaq logs its 12th straight gain. the dow jones industrials up 188 points. the s&p 500 added 22. the nasdaq finished higher by 47 points. a big day for the dow, but right now futures are reacting to some important quarterly reports. they just came out after the closing bell. microsoft shares, they are tumbling in afterwards trade after second quarter earnings and revenue fell short of expectations. american express also moving lower in the after hours trade. earnings beat expectations, but their sales there, they came in lighter than expected. meanwhile, amazon reported profits falling by 10%. they had some foreign currency fluctuations, legal settlement with toys "r" us weighing on

things as well. shares are off more than 7% in the afterhours trade. that's it from cnbc. we are first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." was president obama born in the usa? the answer is yes. the president's birth certificate says he was born in honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on august 4th, 1961. check out this these pictures of the birth certificate held by fact check writer joe miller. state officials in hawaii say they have seen the original birth certificate and verified its authenticity. that includes the governor of the state, who is a republican. the honolulu advertiser, which is a big newspaper there, has faxed to nbc news last night his birth announcement. why are conservative radio talk

show hosts fueling doubts about his citizenship, nine members of congress are doing that as well as senator shelby. g. gordon libby is a radio talk show host. what why sur argument, gordon? >> my argument is this whole thing could be settled in a minute if the president would simply produce a valid birth certificate. so far, so far as i know, he has not. all he's produced has been a, quote, certificate of live birth. you can't get a passport with that. you can't even register your son for little league with that. that's the problem. >> i understand that he presented a -- what's called a short version of the birth certificate which is what you need to get a passport. and that's adequate to get one. that's what people expect you to turn over when you go to the state department. the document he has is what you're supposed to show, this thing. right there. this is what you show the state department if you want to get a passport. this is what he's got. >> let me see it, if you would.

it's interesting that it's redacted. >> yes, it's redacted. we have a copy of the certificate. it was redacted by the state officials because they don't want that in circulation, but they made that decision to redact those numbers. we have a copy we'll show you in a minute. we have it. that's the redacted part. we'll be able to show you now an exhibit showing the -- in fact, a photograph copy of the certificate number. we'll be showing you. this is all available, gordon. here it is. so we have the number. what do you think now? >> well, i would like to check it out. the preponderance of the evidence is as follows. you've got a deposition which is a sworn statement from the step grandmother who says i was present and saw him born in mombassa, kenya. you have the certificate of live birth that they have here.

it's not a birth certificate. it says right on it certificate of live birth. >> how do you explain the announcement in the honolulu advertiser back in '61 when he was born that he was born. how do you explain that? to the parents he was born to. >> i would want my child born in the united states or at least i would want people to think he was born in the united states so he could have all the advantages of being a -- >> but it listed their address in honolulu. >> and also you have a statement that it was -- >> okay. >> the hospital and that it was the queens hospital. >> if he wasn't born here and he's never gone through a naturalization process, right, that you know of. >> not that i know of. >> therefore, he's here illegally and you're saying he's an undocumented alien. >> illegal alien. >> so he should be picked up. >> well -- >> i'm serious. let's -- and by the way, do you

think his wife is in on this, his mother? how many people are in on this conspiracy to make him look like he was born here? i figure his mother must be involved, his grandparents must be involved. how many people are part of this cover-up? >> well, his mother is dead. >> how many people are part of this presentation that he was born here? >> i don't know. >> the mother would have to say it. she saw him run for president. she saw -- how about the colleges he went to. he went to occidental college. do you think he knew he was here illegally. columbia university, harvard law. >> we would like to see the records of those places. apparently they've been available to you but -- >> we have the state health director who says he was born here. the republican governor of the state says he was born in hawaii. why would linda lingle, the republican governor, lie? why would everybody lie going back to 1961? >> well -- >> and nobody gave away the story. >> i don't know -- >> do you think axelrod is a liar? >> who?

>> his chief spokesman. do you think david axelrod is a liar? >> why would i think axelrod is a liar? >> because they are all saying they have documentation he was born in the united states. is the governor of hawaii a liar? >> if he would put out the birth certificate -- >> they've done it. here it is. >> no, that's a certificate of live birth. >> it's the rule in that state they don't hand out copies of the birth certificate. they have pictures of it we'll show you over and over again. pictures of the original -- here they are. what do you think, that was fabricated? >> i can't really see it but i would like to have -- i would like to see it. >> okay. we'll bring those in. we can bring in copies of the original. we have copies of the original photographed. we've gone to an effort, gordon, to establish he was born in hawaii. i just think -- steven, it seems to me the challenge gordon has -- because you have said he was born in the kenyan slums. that means he's an illegal alien. not only illegally president, he's illegally in the united

states and he ought to be picked up. >> unless he's been -- >> he's never been naturalized. he's never claimed to have gone flew a p through a process. so by your account he's illegally in the country and his mother is involved in this and everybody who has ever dealt with him. do you think his wife, michelle, does he know he wasn't born here? >> i can't look into michelle's -- >> all these people say she was. is she part of the cover-up? >> i have no idea. >> you claim he was born in the kenyan slums. you say that as a fact. >> a hospital in mombassa. i didn't say the kenyan slums. >> what's the difference? chris, chris -- >> which hospital in mombassa? i have been over there so many times. where is all this happened? you have a whole history of this fellow in kenya. do we have any evidence it ever happened? >> what after happened? >> that was born in kenya? >> yeah, i have the deposition of the step-grandmother who said she witnessed it. >> okay.

your witness. e. steven go ahead, i'm sorry. >> i'm fab eglaber gas flabberg. this is to ridiculous. i met president obama before he was president. mean people across this nation around around the world know him to be an honest person. this is so ridiculous. this goes to is he muslim and all of that ridiculousness started by the same person. did he -- is he not a true american, the little flag issue. come on. this is just another desperate move, i think, by the republican party to try to pull down this great man, and i just don't understand why there's such a consistent pattern here. you have all that information up there. if you got it, then gordon can get it and everybody else in america can get it. why do that? we have serious issues right now. we have a huge economy, millions of people out of work, people are concerned about health care

and want to see something done, and we're sitting here tonight wasting time talking about is he an american. come on. that's just -- you know what? final point i want to make sh r sheer -- here is if barack obama was a polish american or german american, there would be no discussion anywhere in this country about his citizenship. this is because many people in this nation cannot still accept the fact that a brilliant african-american is the commander in chief, and they're looking for ways to reduce the greatness of his -- not just his intellect, but his honesty and his purity as a person who is serving this nation. >> well, we've got several military officers who have refused to recognize him as a commander in chief, and there are cases working their way, i guess, through the courts on that, but i think what will happen is that when he registers

to run in 2012 for the second term, then you will have the opportunity to prove that he is an american citizen, if you can. >> why do we have to even begin, mr. liddy, to even justify that statement? why? the president -- i spoke to the white house today. they were crystal clear in indicating everything chris just went through, all of the details. they've done it. i'm paying attention to what he's actually doing, about which is focusing in on issue that is matter to america. >> what you're doing is making a speech -- >> i'm not making a speech. i'm not. this is a point of fact. what other president had to go through this? >> you say -- the secretary of state -- >> the question of fact is not, you know, whether he's focusing on this problem or that problem.

the question of fact is was he or was he not born in the united states. >> but that already has been -- >> i want to give the viewers some guidance here. the state health director in honolulu has put out this statement, that the records are available in the files there. the governor of the state has said the records are there and they've all seen them. there are all -- they don't allow the original documents to go out. they put out this document. they have redacted the certificate number on it. they've done what you normally do to get a passport. there was a birth announcement at the time. i don't see how you can believe that the mother of this president, the white mother, if you will, back 48 years ago denied to put out an announcement in hawaii that her boy was born there so somehow 48 years later her boy can become president of the united states. >> it's a wonderful thing to be a citizen of this country rather than a citizen of kenya, and you

don't have to -- everyone wants their child to be able -- >> according to the government of hawaii, he was born at 7:24, august 4th, 1961, in honolulu. he had an african father, kau carben names. the names are family to us all. >> which hospital? >> it just says state of hawaii. >> just like my birth certificate. >> they've given out two different hospitals. >> it says exactly the same thing. >> if this is proven at any point in the next several weeks to your satisfaction, what will you do about it? >> i'll broadcast. >> and you'll say you were wrong. >> sure i'll say i was wrong if i was wrong. >> thank you. that's all i want. thank you g. gordon liddy and steve collins. up noex, president obama backs off the idea of getting health care done before the next recess. now saying he wants it done by next fall. will congress meet the new deadline? this is "the politics fix" up next on msnbc.

coming up, has dick cheney

side stepped trouble again? this time with the help of the obama administration? "hardball" returns after this. (announcer) roundup extended control does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control.

[ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically.

we're back. time for the "politics fix" with chuck todd and politico's josh gersten. last night two points. first of all, what was the president trying to say or not say during that hour press conference last night on health care? >> it seems he was trying to do two things, one, trying to rally some support from middle america, try to put some of this stuff into english, but it also sounded like he was negotiating a bit with congress. he had just gotten off the

phone, chris, about an hour before the press conference with max baucus, chairman of the senate financial committee. he got an update about where they are. so i think, for instance, that's why you didn't hear a detailed defense and plan about what the government-run health plan would look like. you heard some vague references to it, but you didn't hear exactly how it would work. why? because we know bachus is working on the idea of a co-op, and frankly i think that's what made last night's news conference a bit of a waste for the president. why? because it was supposed to be the conference that was going to be to explain the health care plan. well, he had nothing to explain last night. >> josh, it seems that one of the things we saw last night was the president didn't want to do something that bill and hillary clinton did, which was jam it through. so he went the other way. it's almost like he was saying,

i have three republicans on the hill. chuck grassley, snowe, and ensly. he wanted them to feel good. >> i thought it was a rather unfocused performance, that he gave different answers. at one point he seemed to tell people, you'll never have to sacrifice anything, and later he said we could be talking about a fairly dramatic overhaul. i wasn't clear what the viewer at home was supposed to do? were you supposed to call your congressman? feel better about the situation? get mad at someone about something? maybe he was trying to tell us to stay calm, but it's strange to have a press conference for that. >> the senate financial committee put out the word this afternoon, you've seen it as well as we all have, that they won't be able to get the bill through the senate before the august recess, but they hope to get it through the committee. it seems that would be paydirt if they could get it out of committee. >> that's right. the plan is to get it out of the senate finance committee so that during the august recess, reid

and the senate leadership can figure out how to merge the dodd/kennedy big out of the health committee and the finance bill. rahm emanuel has been on capitol hill all day today, meeting on the house side with the blue-dog democrats, the conservative democrats and the leadership, because they still want to try to get an actual bill passed in the house, and the question is, do these house conservative democrats in the district want to walk a plank before they know what's coming out of the senate. we talked a lot about that, and they said, wait a minute, we did it on cap and trade, and we have no idea if the senate will ever vote on cap and trade. don't make us vote for something that the senate will never vote for. we'll know by monday whether the president and rahm emanuel can get a bill out of house. we'll be back to talk about dick cheney with our top reporters. back with "hardball" and the chennee/bush war that seems to be going on. grams of whole grain goodness.

it's what makes triscuit worth every bite. triscuit. weave some wonder. body wash from olay. tone enriching ribbons. two separate ribbons. the white cleanses. the gold moisturizes and has a touch of mineral shimmer to enhance skin's tone. olay tone enriching body wash. for skin that shimmers.

we're back with chuck todd and the politico's josh guess steen. vice president cheney's testimony under oath in the scooter libby case, will we see that testimony? >> this was just an interview to the prosecutor pat fitzgerald. >> under oath? >> i don't believe it was under oath. i believe it was an informal sit-down interview with pat

fitzgerald. to the group's surprise, the obama administration, lanny brewer, a former clinton white house attorney, also refusing to turn over this dick cheney interview, saying this would chill future white houses from cooperating with criminal investigations. >> the question is, chuck, five years, ten years, the judge is trying to decide how long something can be a political football, and when it becomes a need for history. how do we decide as a journalist you would like to have access to everything, right? >> absolutely. you want everything opened up. i remember i wanted more questions asked during the campaign, and i know we did during debates, but it's amazing, it doesn't matter which party the president is, it's funny how executive privilege and this idea of protecting, you know, the secrecy issues that a president has at their disposal, no president usually wants to give that up once they have it.

>> why doesn't david axelrod or somebody at the white house grab a copy of the original document of the president's birth certificate -- you're laughing because this is an absurdity, but throw it out to a reasonable reporter that types it up and makes an official story and makes it available in some bin so someone can look at it, like the wack jobs. >> then the obama campaign posted that copy of the certificate of live birth from the state of hawaii, that they fed the conspiracy theory. every time you throw something -- you decide, okay, i'll throw another -- maybe this will shut them off, it only feeds the theory that you have something -- see? we wouldn't have gotten that piece of information if we didn't -- so there's that argument the more you talk about it, the more you help the cause of the wack jobs. >> the zoo bus is becoming a convoy out there, and maybe this is a -- >> that's the internet's fault. >> i agree. chuck, you're the best.

chuck todd, josh guess steen, join us tomorrow night. right now it's time for "the ed show" with et schultz. >> i'm ed schultz. this is "the ed show." good evening, americans. live from 30 rock in new york, it's "the ed show on msnbc. well, there's a fight behind closed doors among house democrats. will they work through august? congressman jim clyburn will be joining me, and over on the senate side, harry reid closes the door on any health care legislation in august, it's not a good deal. new details about what dick cheney was willing to do to get a pardon for his old buddy scooter libby. plus the house investigation is now under way. i want to know if they're going to put scooter under oathooter

summer? now the right wing is accusing the democrats of being against law enforcement and the cops. plus requesting psychotalk" a great deal panel tonight. we have another tech survey coming up, big question tonight, but first tonight's "op ed." there's only one way to look at this, folks, the republicans again, 40 of them, they got exactly what they wanted, a stall, like a four-corner stall. harry reid says the senate will not vote on health care legislation before the august recess. over on the house side, nancy pelosi says they're ready to go, they have enough votes to pass the progress i have plan. the blue dogs are saying we're not so sure, but the senate has got to get their act together. they just need more time according to reid. reid has got to be the pit boss in all of this. i don't know what you think, folks, but my feeling is this is the huge issue, and