used to teach at harvard, he's a wonderful man. and this whole altercation, i think, is one of has to be great regret to everybody, both to him and to the police officer and, frankly, to the president. i think it has gotten completely out of hand. it's one of the sort of things that happen and, in my judgment, done with any great malicious intent on either party and somehow it got escalated because skip gates is probably the most renowned professor in the field of african-american studies in the country and anything that happens -- you can see how somehow or other this was almost an innocent advantage that somehow or other got out of hand probably on both parties. if i were skip gates and 1:00 in the morning and just flown 10 or 12 hours, i would be irritable as well. >> no one got up that morning thinking this would happen. >> right. i don't think -- this guy, from all i know, i wasn't there and i

don't know the exactly language but he had been someone teaching the cambridge police five years how to be concerned and deal with racial profiling. he had a thorough record in that regard. the one whom i think overstepped his role in this thing was the president. he didn't have all of the facts and i don't know why he had to stir this up. >> oh, mort this is good! we're going to have a debate on this. hang on a second. in fact, an hour from now, the cambridge police sergeant, jim crowley, who arrested skip gates, the prominent african-american solar at harvard, is going to speak to the media in massachusetts. stay tuned and we will go from that. in afln view with our affiliate whdh, jim crowley tells kim casey that he had no choice but to arrest henry louis gates jr. in gates's own home. >> i really didn't want to have to take such a drastic action because i knew it was going to bring a certain amount of unwanted attention on me. nonetheless, that's how far

professor gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn't stop. >> nbc's ron allen is in cambridge, massachusetts. ron, i know we're only moments away from the sergeant speaking publicly again. he has done a radio and tv interview and maybe a couple. is there more we're learning right now, either from the sergeant or from others involved? >> well, i think the other thing that is going to happen at that press conference, the union is really going to step forward and defend sergeant crowley in a very strong way. there are also reports the union is going to demand an apology from president obama and massachusetts governor patrick to sergeant crowley for taking sides in this essentially and supporting professor gates m -- in this altercation and back and forth. we'll see if that he do. the governor's role and not reported widely, but the governor was asked a couple of days to react to this. he said racial profiling is,

quote, every black man's nightmare and troubled by the way skip gates was treated in this situation. of course, governor deval patrick is african-american. the police department rallied behind the officer and saying he teaches a course on racial profiling and has a stellar record and did everything by the book. skip gates on his part is saying he has nothing to apologize for. we haven't heard as much from him but i would suspect in the days to come, he may push back as well. >> ron, one quick question. what about the neighbor? what about the white woman who i believe was in her 60s who, in the middle of the day, looked out and saw what she believed to be two black men trying to break into a home and didn't recognize her neighbor skip gates and ultimately placed the call? >> i don't think anybody is blaming her for doing that. i think everybody can understand why a citizen would do that. adding to the reasons are the fact there had been a number of

break-ins in the neighborhood, the police said and also a break-in at skip gates' home while he was away from home on vacation. another factor there that may have increased sergeant crowley's suspicions and may have increased his level of caution and also is a reason why, perhaps, this woman made this call but, again, i don't think anybody is blaming her for her role in this at all. >> ron allen in cambridge, massachusetts, thanks so much. joining us is music journalist and pop culture toure and msnbc contributor and i'm joined by mort zuckerman. >> one thing we found out that the complainant was not a neighbor, somebody who works at harvard magazine and was in the neighborhood and saw this happening. that was my concern why didn't you recognize your neighbor? that's not what is going on here. interesting that the door was messed up because there was a previous break-in, so, clearly, the cambridge police was not on their job before when skip

gates's house got messed up, but this time, they're on the case. >> you could argue on behalf of the police who said we came there with understandable suspicion since i'm sure they keep records and they say this home had been burglarized recently and we need to be thoughtful about this. >> let me speak to your point millions of americans agree with you perhaps the president shouldn't have said anything or should have said something different. this is a major american story that everybody is talking about, that says so much about who we are right now. the president knows the law. he knows about race. he knows about cambridge, harvard and knows skip gates personally so this is not a random abstract situation. this is a personal direct situation. he doesn't have a lot of the facts but he has a lot of them. i think he absolutely should say something. >> that's a fair point. all i'm saying he didn't know what all of the facts were at that point. you have to be very careful when you're the president, because you can distort or get these things that are at a completely different level unless you're sure of the facts. for example the identity card he referred to turps out to be not

a driver's license, apparently, which was the original suggestion, but just that card with a name on it and no address on it. and you can't -- you have to be there and know what the language was going back and forth to form the right kind of a judgment and to escalate, listen, nobody is trying to approve of racial profiling and we know we've had a terrible amount of that over the long, long period of time and it should be commended but you should not confuse it in a situation like this where there were some natural facts like the preceding robbery. >> i give credit to the president speaking out. i know i defer including with some in the white house on this. i'm glad the president spoke out and thought it was important. i was okay with the language he used. when he said sfuped stupidly, in my mind that is different from saying the cop was racist or bhavered racially. i think the point the president made which i agree with, when all is said and done even if he didn't have identification in the worlged you clear once he has been in the house this was the guy, this was his house but

there was kind of people were in each other's sand box. i think with a 68-year-old man arrested in cuffs, police report has it wrong. they say he is 58 but i think he's 68. >> i agree. >> i think that -- >> put it this way, if he's 58, i'm 42! >> but -- >> the president can careful to not say racist, right? which is typical of the president's language to not go all the way. he says this still haunts us. we know what he is talking about but he didn't want to underline it as a racist situation. it's a bit much to call sergeant crowley racist. i'm not going to go that far. i don't know him. i think you have to know a lot about a person before you call them racist. is it a racist situation or a racial situation? i think absolutely. >> don't go anywhere. we're going to talk about this a lot more. in fact, still more to come. not only on this but other issues. the mayor of the former nation's largest city is in a health care

debate. hear what rudy gl has to say coming up. and what does giuliani think, if anything, about the skip gates case? it may surprise you. that and a lot more coming up next. you're watching msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card.

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. now former republican presidential candidate rudy giuliani says president obama's health care proposal will drive costs up. the mayor and i had a fairly spirited conversation yesterday. in fact, we talked about a variety of things, including the president's agenda. the president's plan for health care reform and whether giuliani is getting ready for a big run for governor next year. take a listen. >> i thought he left more questions unanswered than

answered. so i don't know if he helped his cause which i'm happy about because i think it would be a terrible mistake to nationalize health insurance the way he wants to do it. i think it would largely destroy health care in america as we know it. it would become an industry like the automotive and financial industry, the banks and i think it's a terrible mistake. but i think he hut his cass by not being forthright with the american people and say thg going to cost cover. you can't cover 30 million to 50 million people and have it not cost more money than it is right now. >> i thought i heard him say it would cost significant money but he was focused on how to pay for it, two-thirds he saw savings in the system and another third of which he said that he needed to spend time figuring out how to pay for it. did you hear something different? >> no. i heard that, too. . but that is total nonsense. he's not going to cover it by reducing waste by two-thirds. i mean that's absurd.

there is only -- that -- the cost of health care has gone up inevitably every year for the last 20 to 30. the cost of health care is going to go up again. and even if you ut cut out the waste, i mean, the best programs for cutting out waste cut out 10 to 15% of the program. that is pie in the sky and you say what you have to say to get your program through. the reality is the cost of the medical services will go up over the next ten years as everything else will go up. if nothing else, the enormous spending that he has done that is unprecedented that will create inflation will drive it up even more than we expect. you can't spend a trillion and a half dollars and not have to print money which creates inflation and medical services will inflate like everything else will. >> mr. mayor, let me push back on you for a minute there. >> sure. >> had he ever. >> over the next ten years we will spend money on pills, scans

and doctor visits and what have you. what the president is talking about is spending ultimately an incremental trillion dollars over that ten years so we're talking about 2% to 3%. doesn't that fit within your definition of what you can save if you go through a program carefully, saving a trillion out of 33 trillion? >> this is really wanting to believe it because you want to believe it. this administration has shown no ability to cut anything. it's increased spending in many areas by 3 and 4 times within six months. it's increased spending more than any administration in our history. so i don't see how the american people buys the idea that this president is all of a sudden going to turn no a conservative manager of an entitlement program called health care. i mean, it makes no sense at all. >> mr. mayor, you're making me smile, because knowing you a little bit, i'm hearing not only the yankee in you, the new york yankee, but i'm hearing a candidate and hear you warm up your throat for a 2010 gubernatorial run.

>> that is not what you're hearing. you're hearing from someone opposed to national health care from the very beginning. i think it's a misto turn people in canada to america. this is -- this is a crisis. but you don't solve the crisis by making it worse. which is essentially what he did with his stimulus program. he inherited an economic crisis and made it 2 to 3 times worse and stimulus program that hurt the economy rather than helped it. >> what would you liked to have seen different in the stimulus program? what would -- how -- >> i would have -- >> how would you shape it? >> first of all, he should have done what he promised which is spend money on the infrastructure. most of it was for democratic districts, democratic programs, most of the money so far has gone to democratic districts and democratic programs. it should have been explained to the american people as it was. it was a big christmas tree of

the usually political programs except multiplied by 3 to 4 times. constructed by congress. what i would like to have seen is specific spending on projects that helped the economy which is why the stimulus projects have not helped the economy. mostly infrastructure programs. that's good long-term spending. we need to do it anyway. so i would have liked to have seen that. >> you and i had a great conversation six weeks ago and we talked about any party in the wilderness comes back. i thought you were thoughtful when saying it's not just about speeches or even big new ideas but ultimately about compelling candidates who run in real elections and win. >> right. >> given that, are you considering running in 2010 next year or in 2012? if not, given our conversation, why not? >> well, 2010 and twf 2012 is a long way away. i may. i don't know the answer of that here. i was thinking about this year

with the races in new jersey, with the very good candidate who is ahead right now by 15%, chris christy and thinking about virginia where we have equally good chance to win, republicans do. new york city, mike bloomberg is an independent but he is running with the support of the republican party and run against a democrat. so we have some advances that we can make this year. next year, same thing. we've got to have really good candidates whether i'm one of them or not, we'll see. >> straight ahead, two more americans are killed today in afghanistan. what has already been the deadliest month to date for u.s. and nate tow forces and as the pentagon prepares to send more troops in the region we take a fresh look at where the fight stands against the taliban. barry mcaffrey will join us straight ahead. you're watching msnbc live. i'm carlos watson.

if we don't act, medical bills will wipe out their savings. if we don't act, she'll be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. and he won't get the chemotherapy he needs. if we don't act, health care costs will rise 70%. and he'll have to cut benefits for his employees. but we can act. the president and congress have a plan to lower your costs and stop denials for pre-existing conditions. it's time to act. women who drink crystal light drink 20% more water.

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breaking news right now on capitol hill. big development in the sonia sotomayor confirmation process and we want to bring in nbc news ken strickland on capitol hill. what can you tell us, ken? >> carlos, here is what i found out. orrin hatch from utah says he will not vote in favor of sonia sotomayor. this may not become a surprise to many americans considering hatch is a republican but here is the context you have to understand this. orrin hatch elected in 1976 has voted for every confirmation over the past 12 confirm medications and even when a democrat elected a nominee to be a supreme court justice, he voted for even democratic nominees. today, he says you just can't vote for sonia sotomayor. he is going to release a statement shortly and he basically says it's particularly difficult because i highly respect judge sotomayor and have a great deal of deference to any presidential noom knee nominee

but at the end of the day he thought too many issues that was troubling him and he is not going to support her and a chilling effect it could be on other republicans figuring out whether or not they will support sotomayor. >> ken, stand by. pete williams is over at the justice department. you just heard what ken strickland shared that orrin hatch, who has been in the senate since 1976 and has supported both democratic and republican nominees for the supreme court, decided he is not going to support sonia sotomayor's nomination. your thoughts? >> well, i think what it means is two things. number one, i don't think it changes the overall formulation that sonia sotomayor will be confirmed. what it probably changes, though, is the number of votes she will get. many of her supporters would hope she could do as well as john roberts did when he was nominated to the court. he got 78 votes and he got 22 democrats voting with him. samuel alito, on the other hand, got only 58 voits and only four

democrats voting. this probably means she will be around the range that samuel alito got. alito's yes vote was the third lowest yes vote in the past 50 years for a supreme court nominee. this will give a lot of coverage republicans considering voting for her. moderate republicans. some republicans say this would but this will probably mean a lot fewer republicans will vote for her than might have had orrin hatch led them to a yes vote. >> pete and ken, i'll ask it to the both of you. have we heard anything from john mccain yet? i still think that is the signal call on the republican side. he is, obviously, running for re-election next year in a large hispanic population state. he has said in the past his race and immigration issues. any word where he stands? >> i have to say it's traditional for republicans who are not on the senate judiciary committee. in many cases they will wait to

see what senators like orrin hatch, john cornyn and others do. it's not surprising we haven't heard from senator john mccain yet. >> thank you both so much. breaking news. orrin hatch, who, for 23u 33 years, has backed every nominee for the supreme court, whether democrat or republican, has just announced today he will oppose sonia sotomayor's nomination to the supreme court. next, our conversation about race relations in america continues. in a few moments, sergeant james crowley, involved in the skip gates case up in cambridge, massachusetts, will speak live and you can watch it live on msnbc ahead.

welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. u.s. military says two american service members killed today in a bomb attack in southern afghanistan.

today's death actually brings the american death toll to 37 for july. making it the deadliest month ever for u.s. and nato troops in afghanistan. with me now live is msnbc military analyst and retired u.s. army general barry mcaffrey and here with me in the studio is gied i don't know. the cover article in the latest issue he wrote, "waking from its sleep." and i'm joined by my co-host mort zuckerman. general, we're focused heavily in the states on the health care ballots whaen is going on with skip gates and the issue in harvard. we know what is happening in afghanistan, it seems to be getting bloodier which you and i talked about a couple of weeks ago. how significant is what has happened in july or while horrific is it kind of somewhat predictable as we step up that's what is expected to happen? >> well, pretty nice summary, carlos. we got another 21,000 troops ed headed in there by christmas and

68,000 u.s. military on the ground and aggressive new strategy to try and use not just the armed forces but also economic development and political engagement and intelligence and cross border operations in pakistan with unmanned drones all to turn around a very bloody situation. we're almost 4,000 killed and wounded u.s. and afghanistan now. put it in context, it was around 35,000 killed and wounded in iraq. so we have a tough year coming up on the ground. the general mchrystal is the best we've had emerge from the fighting. we got a good ambassador karl eikenberry but it's a difficult year. >> gideon -- mort? >> what is the definition of victory in afghanistan at this point? i mean, what are we trying to accomplish there as separating the taliban, for example, from al qaeda? what is going on there? >> well, you know, my own view

is we shouldn't ever use a word like victory in afghanistan. i think our objectives are long term, ten years or more, to create a state that operates, that has an economy, some form of government and doesn't abuse its own people and doesn't attack its neighbors, but it's long term and it's going to be difficult and huge opium trade and half the economy is in drugs. it's a tough situation. >> general mcaffrey, you can't see it here but mort is shaking his head saying -- >> no. i just go to another country you're familiar with dealing with drugs which is mexico. do you think calderon is doing much in mexico to control the dug gangs over there which is so destabilizing in the country? >> i'm on an international advisory panel of the mexican government and tremendous admiration for calderon and attorney general mora and secretary luna who is trying to reestablish the rule of law. 12,000 murdered in an attempt to

reestablish democratic control of the state. yeah, i think it's going to be a tough situation in mexico also dealing with issues of institutional development, crime, drugs, the economy is crashing in mexico. it's a very challenging situation. >> gideon, secretary clinton is on ""meet the press" this week and she has seen the president overseas in the first six months and then your cover story comes up seeming to suggest even though we may be focused on a few places in arab world but more going on there. what did you see in writing this article? >> i want to come back to mechanic ko. when general mcaffrey was in charge of drug policy at the white house he oversaw colombia. mexican drug cartels is dumping down the drug cartels in colombia. i'm trying to draw america is involved in a lot of trying to

put out a lot of fires at once. >> final word here. we got to go. 30 seconds. hate to do it that short. on the afghanistan/iraq/iran theater we're following. >> i think what is happening the president is trying to achieve a consensus and broad support on his getting pressure on iran so iran will reach talks on the nuclear question. i think the challenge for america is that iran has destabilizing influence in the whole arab world. it is reaching over heads of arab leaders and appealing to arabs is being seen as the authentic resistance. >> you're saying president obama is not the only one practicing public diplomacy if you will? >> absolutely not. >> i hope you will come back and join us again. general, good to see you, sir. look forward to talking to you again very soon. >> all right. robert gibbs says the

president regrets the distraction the gates story has become. gibbs says if the president had known how big the story had come he may reyou. refrain from commenting on the case. rejoining me is toure. and a pastor who is an msnbc analyst. toure so do you agree with press secretary gibbs that the president would have been wiser to have kept quiet on this issue some. >> i like the president weighing in on this. this is a major american story that tells us who we are right now. i'm not mad at the president at all for jumping in. you see where it overshadowed the health care message this one comment becomes a whole headline discussion because we've shown on this show that health care can be a little boring. this is an important issue. the president should speak on it. i question gibbs -- i believe in gibbs and his integrity but, yesterday, the president again

spoke on it and said, hey, i just said something real. i said what i really felt. the second day, gibbs comes back and says, well, perhaps we shouldn't have said anything and he regrets it. now you say that? the president didn't say that yesterday. so i wonder if this is actually a little politics backtracking here. >> mort? >> i think that is what it is, it is politics. i think this is exactly the problem. it has distracted him from his maej agenda and frankly a little bit premature. i still don't think he knew what all of the facts were, nor could he have. it is a major american story. nobody denies that. the question is when do you bring it up and how. >> maybe a small piece of upside maybe it hay not have helped but otherwise the headlines would be reading obama's health care crashes and fail and now toure makes jokes saying it's boring and nobody paying attention to. >> you think the president is

feeling good about this now? two negatives don't make a positive. >> reverend eugene rivers, harvard grad yourself, you know the boston area well. your thoughts on this situation here and the president's decision not only to speak out once but as toure noted to come back and reaffirm his stance a second time. >> mort zuckerman got it right. any adult with i.q. over 50 recognizes this was a political mistake. >> it doesn't include me. >> it works in hollywood, for most of us who live on the planet earth, there was no constructive purpose served by the president getting involved in the issue whereby his own administration he didn't get the facts straight. henry louis gates and crowley and the cambridge police department, for the sake of the country, need to bury the hatchet and sit down, minus the performance art, and squash this, because the way the rhetoric is spiraling out, there is no rational end to which this thing will arise.

>> reverend, i agree with that. i got to put you on something here for a moment. >> do that. >> what i heard the president saying was that -- i took it as he said, when all is said and do, that situation spiraled out of control and probably two good people involved and -- but it should not have ended with a 68-year-old man who walks with a cane and shown you some i.d., granted not perfect i.d. but should not have ended with him handcuffed. >> absolutely. >> consequently, that was a stupid decision on the part of the police department. do we not know enough facts to at least conclude that? which the president -- >> i agree with you. look, look. i agree, carlos, it was -- it was poor policing. no argument. listen. it doesn't take a physicist to include that conclude that it was a bad arrest. no one is disputing that. what should be challenged is the rhetoric that is spiraling out. was it a bad arrest? of course, it was. everybody understands that. what has become a problem is that the rhetoric has escalated

and, again, a 58-year-old man? look. i live in boston. i don't live in harvard square 02138 zip code which is not quite america. i live in dorchester. i understand there was a legitimate issue and there are legitimate issues regarding race and law enforcement. the way we're going -- go ahead. >> we have to go to a break. don't go anywhere. we're going to come back. sergeant james crowley, the officer involved, is expected to hold a news conference in a few moments. we're going to have live coverage. you'll hear the sergeant speak on msnbc live in moments. don't go anywhere. still ahead, in addition to that, a brief one-on-one conversation with samuel l. jackson who stops by msnbc live to talk to me. he will talk about getting involved in the political process and about america's first black president. >> your wife was involved the

first time she met obama? >> yeah. i was on location. she told me she was going to meet this guy who is probably going ton to be the president one day. first she said is black and his name is obama. i said no president like that. he has to change his name, first. wer total price. plus, if another orbitz customer then books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically.

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call now for special savings and we'll also give you... 30 days to try lifelock absolutely free. call now and mention id. call now or go to lifelock.com. ♪ welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. now in breaking news, senate majority leader harry reid says senators won't be voting any time soon on health care despite the president's deadline but they are not the only ones holding up the bill. in fact, rahm emanuel met with blue dog democrats for more than three hours yesterday and speaker pelosi's office but negotiations ultimately broke down without a deal to get the bill on the floor. with me is congresswoman allison schwartz from the philadelphia area in pennsylvania. good to see you, congresswoman. >> good to be with you. >> i understand you just met just a few moments ago, maybe an

hour ago, with speaker pelosi. any chance the president will at least get something out of the house next week before you guys go on recess? >> well, we're working on it. i believe very strongly that we need to take action. the american people have been waiting for a long time to get access to stable, affordable, meaningful health coverage. i've been working with a small group to try to resolve some of the issues outstanding. i think we're making some progress. we're just going to keep working at it. that's what we're tasked to do. and we're still hopeful we can get a bill out of the house by the end of the week. we'll see if we will meet that deadline. >> i'm joined by mort zuckerman who has a quick question. >> the critical question is whether or not this is within the cost parameters we can afford the next decade. how are we able to do that in the context of this bill without jamming up taxes and we will not have access to to deal with a fiscal deficit going forward?

>> right who answers. one, of course, you know the concern of inaction, that the kind of costs that we're going to see to our economy and to our businesses and to our families and to the government if we don't take action to reduce the greater growth and actually cover americans in a more efficient, more sensible way is very serious to our government and to our families. but, secondly, as you know, half of this bill is paid for with savings out of medicare and medicaid. we believe there are additional savings in the bill that will be a reward for both health status of americans and government revenues in the future that we're hard to actually calculate, or quantify. the rest is going to be revenue that we're going to raise in the fairest way possible. it will be revenue neutral and we're trying to contain the costs as much as we can. >> congresswoman, fantastic to have you on and look forward to have you join us next week.

>> all right. very good. stay in touch. >> good to see you. i sat down with academy award nominee and samuel l. jackson in los angeles recently and asked him about politics, pop culture and his golf game. here is what he said how he begins his day. >> i watch "morning joe" when i get up and then i go through hshl, countdown, rachel maddow and i watch the new guy, ed. >> what do you think of ed? >> interesting. i'm getting there. >> he is doing okay. >> i'm getting there with him. >> what about the real news guy, obama, president obama? >> he's on msnbc? >> every now and then. how do you think he is doing? >> he's doing a good job. doing as well as he can do right now. unfortunately, you know, president is one of those kind of jobs that these guys get and you have to learn how to do it on the job. by the time you learn how to do it, your term is up and a new guy comes in and learn how to do it again. he is going fast.

in terms of, you know, he hit the ground running. he inherited a bad situation and he's doing the best that he can with it, but he is bringing us back into the world community in a very interesting and positive sort of way. >> your wife the first time she met obama was sold? >> yeah. i was busy. i was on location and called me and told me she met this guy who is probably the president one day. i said, yeah, right. who is he? first she said he was black and said his name is obama. i said nobody will vote with a guy with a name like that. he has to change his name, first. especially for the older people in the south. young people i remember my daughter and her friends getting involved in politics and they hadn't been involved for a very long time. i remember when i was younger, i was political. i was out in the streets. i was throwing stuff. i was fussing and fighting. >> late '60s, early '70s? >> yeah. running from the fbi and start stuff and all kinds of stuff. the young people got involved

and once the young people of america started this ball rolling and getting other young people involved, you know, being political became hip. and being part of this particular campaign became even hipper. >> do you -- >> that was the -- the land swell and drive that kind of made this thing happen the way it happened. >> do you think it continues? do you think it was, you know, a lot of events, whether a company like myspace or a club gets hot and things ebb away? do you think the young people got excited about obama will continue? >> i think the excitement is still there. i think they need to see some results in terms of their parents getting better health care, their relatives seeing more money, and the economic upturn, because there's a lot of disappointment right now in what going on. kids graduating from college and have no jobs, nowhere to go. they think obama is like, you

know, the magic potient that will make this happen. the job of president is a tough job and you learn it as you go. like most politicians, unfortunately, he's a politician. he made some promises. hopefully, he can keep them, but he has to at least make one half the first and make another happen and make another happen, but you can't make them all happen at once. young people are learning that, but they also know now that they have a specific amount of power that they can wield, that they can determine the future of what goes on through their vote, through their vous and through their actions and, hopefully, they will continue to do that. >> now how good a golfer are you? >> i'm okay. how good golfer are you? >> okay means? >> okay means -- >> scratch? >> no, my goal is being scratcher. i want to get a card one month that says you're zero. unfortunately, i'm away from that. >> that's not bad. >> no. >> do you do business on the golf course or enjoy it? >> business? what do you do business on the

course just enjoy it? >> business? what do you mean? like shoot deals? >> no. i shoot golf for gas money. gas is a lot. >> not as much when obama came in office. >> oh, come on! they raised the price of gas up to $5 so when we went back down to $3, we were like, oh, man, gas is so cheap now! >> we'll talk about that later. thank you so much for being on. when you're in new york, you have to promise me you'll come on "live with carlos watson". >> no problem. come out on the golf course with me and get some of that lunch money. stay with msnbc for sergeant james crowley's address to the media. it's only moments away. don't go anywhere. we'll take a quick break and shortly after our break, you'll hear live from the officer involved in the skip gates case. 

welcome back to "msnbc lye." i'm carlos watson. a month after the death of michael jackson, news today that many anticipated the august tribute concerts to the king of pop have actually now been canceled. managing editor of "rolling stone" has a major new story on the last days of michael jackson. i was surprised. you told me that, literally, in the last few days, michael wasn't thinking this wasn't going to work, the whole concert comeback, he actually thought what? >> that's what our reporter found out, that michael thought he was back. he didn't feel frail, he didn't feel -- >> 5'10", 110 pounds, you know, shooting up to kind of -- >> but he was utterly determined to put on what he thought was going to be the greatest show ever. we talked to tons of people involved in the show, the dancers, the promoters, the money guy. they all said the same thing. >> what about the doctors. we're starting to hear more. mort, i've sure you've seen the

stories too, they're investigatinging a number of the doctors involved. >> it's clear a lot's going to come out and there's a lot of unanswered questions and i think it would be interesting to see the next stage of information that's going to come out. >> it's always interesting to me that the belief that you can come back, i wonder if that's a distinctly human thing or distinctly american notion that there's a second chance. >> all of the above. and when you have the talent of michael jackson and feel what you're doing up there on the stage, i have no doubt that that's exactly what he -- and he needed that belief in himself to carry it off anyhow. he is, after all, an incredible performer. >> we've got to leave it there for now. will dana from "rolling stone," north zukerman, my cohost, i want to thank everybody. in just a few minutes, the officer involved james crowley is expected to host a news conference hosted by his union, the cambridge police superior

officer's association. so dr. nancy snyderman is up next. we'll have that and a whole lot more up next live. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. car insurance company in the nation. but, it's not like we're kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing... gecko vo: ...but i do work hard, mind you. gecko vo: first rule of "hard work equals success." gecko vo: that's why geico is consistently rated excellent or better in terms of financial strength. gecko vo: second rule: "don't steal a coworker's egg salad, 'specially if it's marked "the gecko." come on people. come on in. you're invited to the chevy open house. where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 malibu 1lt with an epa estimated 33 mpg highway. get it now for around 21 thousand after all offers.

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good afternoon, everyone. i'm dr. nancy snyderman, live today in denver, colorado, on my way to the aspen health forum at the aspen institute, where the country's medical and political leaders will be gathering. we'll be talking about everything from health care reform to swine flu and also reporting on that and much more today. any minute now, we expect to be hearing from the police officer in the middle of the national controversy over the arrest of that harvard professor, professor gates, because it has erupted into a debate over race relations in this country and we will bring that to you, live. plus, new developments in the michael jackson investigation. we now know what was taken from his personal physician's office, including a drug that we haven't talked about before that could have played a role in his

overall health. and an illegal organ-selling ring busted in new jersey is leading to a provocative question. we'll be exploring that today when we make rounds. and should you be allowed to sell your organs to the highest bidder? it's your kidney, so why does the government care if you cash in on it? we're going to talk about that. it's all ahead on "dr. nancy." well, we start today, obviously, with new details in the controversial arrest of harvard professor, louis gates. at any moment now, sergeant james crowley, who is the arresting officer in the case of henry louis gates jr. is expected to speak at a news conference, long with officials of his police union. in an interview with whdh's kim kazee, crowley said he wasn't a bigot, he isn't a bigot and he told his version of what happened to him when he got to gates' cambridge home.

>> first of all, there were reports that there was two individuals. i see one, and it could be him, so where's the second person? or there's two people in the residence that he doesn't know are there. either way, i wasn't expecting his response, which was, "that's none of your business." >> that's the interview with kim kazee in boston, a reporter. now our reporter, ron allen. i understand the president has come out and backed off of his comments he made the other night during his press conference. can you give me an update after we take a look at this one bite. ron? >> reporter: i'm sorry, i thought you were going to -- >> ron allen? >> reporter: can you hear me? >> i sure can. can you give me an update on whether the president has backed off? >> reporter: i'm not sure the president is the correct