arrested skip gates at his home forward with this. last week. >> do you disagree -- well, you police officers who stood next to sergeant crowley today, as he disagree with those who say the president should not have gotten remained silent this morning, said that they resent any into this. implication that race played a he was prepared for the question, but do you think he role in the arrest of henry louis gates jr. and they took it a step too far by characterizing one side of the party, the police, without defended the entire police dealing with the fact that it force. >> they make hundreds of was an ambiguous situation for decisions each week and anyone who was not present there thousands of decisions each year at the moment? in the preservation of the >> i think the president had to answer the question and i think peace. race does not play a role of any kind in that decision making, what he said really parallels what the prosecutor said, that and played no role in the whatever happened there, the decision making in this case. arrest was unwarranted. you can talk about his language, >> nbc's ron allen is in but i don't think that if the cambridge, massachusetts, for us president had made that statement while a case was still today. ron, you've been covering this pending against dr. gates, that story. you know the feelings and the would have been one thing. there was no case. emotions that play on both i think where we go from here, i sides. can you try to dissect where we would hope, is i remember and you know, andrea, i was one of those with johnnie cochran that stand today and whether there is started this whole racial any chance of communication profiling stuff ten years ago in between these two sides? >> reporter: well, i think we new jersey with the new jersey stand in the surprising four case.

situation, i think everybody involved in this case on all president clinton and attorney general janet reno convened law sides is probably amazed that it enforcement heads, police chiefs has become such a huge issue. from all over the country, and but i think that speaks to the civil rights leaders and civil passions, the feeling of hurt, liberties unions and all and the feeling of resentment, the started a dialogue on how we get feelings -- strong feelings that to a policy that is fair for go with discussions about race, racism, profiling in this everyone. that was avoided during the bush country. years. i would hope maybe attorney general holder and others can i was struck that the police bring us back to that discussion officer's unions officials used where police unions and civil liberty lawyers and civil rights some very strong, measured, but leaders and others can have this strong language directed at the discussion independent of this president of the united states, and also the governor of the case, because there is no case, state, duvall patrick, whose andrea. the prosecutor's already role in this we really haven't dismissed the case. discussed a lot. but it was clear, as you said, >> do you think there would be some value in the president they felt resentment towards sitting down with skip gates and these two men because of what sergeant crowley, privately they said about the situation. they said both men showed a without the media, and just personal bias and admitted that discussing who did what to whom and trying to clear the air? because they were friends of professor gates. they admitted that they did not >> i don't know, that's a charge know the facts and they said it the president has to make. was inappropriate for them to i don't know if that will clear the air. draw conclusions. i don't think the air will be that's pretty tough stuff, i clear until we get back on track think, particularly in this very on how we deal with profiling in heated climate that we're this country. dealing, with these issues. and for that matter, attorney is there a chance for general holder has already

started on hate crimes. reconciliation, is there a chance for the sides to come because the reason this has together and discuss this and talk openly about it? ignited the storm it has is because people are still very at this point, andrea, i don't passionate about it and we're not very clear on where the line think so, because -- but there was drawn. one of the things that was may be a forum for that that interesting to me, is i does not involve the principles, understand that officer crowley because there's going to be an had even taught racial profiling independent investigation of this by an outside panel, the classes. >> exactly. >> if that is the case, one panel of people from the would think when, according to community. so there may be some discussion him, professor gates started there that sheds more light than heat, which is what we're saying he felt like he was being certainly getting now. imposed upon because he was a >> ron, from your perspective, black man, you would think that an officer that taught about you've covered national campaigns, you've covered barack that could have been said to him, no, this is not what this obama, so you can see this from all sides. is and understood his feelings a lot of people talking about why the president jumped into this. from your understanding of him rather than arrest him in charges that even a prosecutor has decided he couldn't and his background, do you find it that surprising that he would substantiate. >> the reverend al sharpton, have answered the way he thank you very much. >> thank you, andrea. answered at the news conference, even though tactically and and sergeant james crowley did not speak at today's press privately, his own people are conceding that tactically, it conference. he did give an interview, was not the best way to go when though, to nbc's boston he's trying to push health care. affiliate, whph. >> reporter: well, i think the president had to answer the he told news anchor kim kazee question, because had he not, then the headline would have been, "the president ducks the that he is speaking out because

he is tired of being called question." this is also a couple days racist and said he had no choice before he appears before the but to arrest professor gates. naacp, and i'm sure people in >> i didn't want to have to take the african-american community, a drastic action because i knew there are people that were hoping he would answer this it would bring a certain question and speak out unwanted attention on me. forcefully. so i'm sure all that was in the nonetheless, that's how far president's mind. professor gates pushed it and i would think it was in the president's mind as well. provoked and just wouldn't stop. everything he says suggests that he thought he made a very >> kim kazee of whph joins us measured, careful, logical, live now. professorial-like response. it's the words "stupidly," that kim, thanks so much for joining us. you got the interview with sergeant crowley. is really the big problem in all i want to ask you your this. impressions of whether he feels and the officers who spoke today any regret that he, you know, zeroed in on that more than he's saying in your interview that professor gates pushed it. anything. and i think, i'm sure if the the other side of the question, of course, is why did he feel he white house had the opportunity, they would certainly take that had to make this arrest once he back. but it's out there and it's done. >> ron allen up to the minute in knew that it was the homeowner, that there was no threat of cambridge, massachusetts, which burglary, and that there was, is the center of this storm. you know, no incident to be pursued. a national conversation on race that no one really invited, and >> well, i can only tell you what the sergeant told me, and we can hope that by the time this is over, it's a useful he said that it should have been conversation. done in a matter of 14 seconds. thank you, ron. joining us now live from new york, reverend al sharpton, his story is that the professor

president of the national action was in a verbal rage from the moment he approached the door network. reverend, i want to ask you and he did show the identification, the sergeant about something that brent staples wrote, an editorial in says he was trying to leave the home and that professor gates today's "new york times." followed him out the door and he wrote, these remarks could continued the rage, so much so, change how the news media sees that he couldn't report to his officers that he warned him. we do have a viewer snapshot. the president's views on race. you can see sergeant crowley in up to now, he's been portrayed the background, which he claims as a stern, black exceptionalist who takes negroes to task for he was trying to tell professor not meeting his standard. gates to calm down and relax and that he was unsuccessful to do he is not happy with this that. but lack, i wasn't there, you characterization. pointing out that we should understand barack obama in a weren't there, and we go by from different context, not the context of half of his speech to what we hear from professor gates, who seems very confident, the naacp, a sister souljah and from sergeant crowley, who was very confident. i was very impressed with serg weighiway, cr sergeant crowley, very confident, didn't hesitate, there was no emotional sound saying you need to take more bite there to capture. responsibility, but going through all the horrific things he was very even and steady, that happened across generations never hesitated. to african-americans and that and he said he regrets it legacy which needs to be addressed through action. happened, but he's not sorry, he >> well, i think brent staples is on to something. wouldn't want to say he's sorry and set that precedent for police officers across the let me be clear. country.

barack obama is not and has >> and in fact, you asked him to respond to what the president never professed to be the leader had said, and this is what he of a civil rights organization, had to say to you. let's watch. like me or others. >> i was a little surprised and but he is always had a balanced approach, saying we must be disappointed that the president who didn't have all the facts, by his own admission, then responsible, at the same time, we must also deal with whatever weighed in on the events of that racial inequalities still exist. night and made a comment that, he said that at the speech at the naacp. you know, really offended not just officers in the cambridge i was sitting there. he has said that throughout his police department, but officers around the country. career. he said that when he was running but thatting being said, i have for office, when he made the speech in philadelphia. i think a lot of people tried to tremendous amount of respect and portray him in an imbalance, and support the president of the united states and everything i think he's always been he's trying to do. >> kim, how has this divided balanced. let's remember, as a state your community? you're there covering it on the legislature, he sponsored ground. legislation on racial profiling this has exploded nationally, in the state of illinois. but the ground zero for it, of so when he's separate from this course, is cambridge and boston. incident, and he made it very >> absolutely. and i think it's about all clear, i think, because i watched the press conference, anyone is talking about. that he was not referring to you know, here at channel 7 whph racial profiling, necessarily, in this incident. when he raised it shall of racial profiling at the press in boston, we have received thousands of phone calls and conference, since that was a issue that had been raised in e-mails, people contact us this context, he wasn't through facebook. and since this story started, we addressing something he had not addressed as a state legislator. had a significant response.

after hearing from sergeant i don't know why the media acts crowley, we've heard much more. like this is something new. and while everyone was really i also think it's very feeling for professor gates and interesting to me that when i sort of siding with his part of watched the police union's press the story, now that we've heard conference today, that everyone sergeant crowley express his is acting as if there was an side of the story, we're hearing a different response. last night during our 11:00 active case that the president newscast when we broke this addressed. the charges had been dropped. interview, we also conducted a they didn't ask the prosecutor web poll and the question, i to apologize, so when they were believe, was, do you believe the saying that the facts hasn't come in, the facts had come in. president's remarks were appropriate? the prosecutor had decided that 11% said yes and 89% said no. there was nothing to try professor gates about. informal, but those were our if the president or anyone else results. wanted to give their opinion >> and we know that web polls about what happened, they were are not real reflections of not interfering with an active actual polling, but it's an case, because the case had been dismissed. >> but at the same time, can you interesting snapshot. thank you very much, kim khazei understand what the police union is saying? they're saying that this police from whdh. officer arrived on the scene, and straight ahead, are americans feeling optimistic about their future? there had been a prior incident when professor gates was out of new numbers about the the country. government's roll in helping he is told that there is -- that people get ahead. there are two men involved. and the trouble between george bush and dick cheney. whether or not there was any racism involved in his response, the president and vice president at odds in the final days in as a law enforcement officer, office.

he's saying that he was trying you're watching "andrea mitchell reports," only on msnbc. yes, ir progressive has to protect skip gates and anyone else who might be in the house lots of discounts on car insurance. can i get in on that? from some other third or fourth are you a safe driver? parties. he did not know what the lay of yes. discount! the land was when he first do you own a home? walked into that house. yes. discount! >> no, that part is are you going to buy online? yes! discount! understandable. what is not understandable is then when he goes forward, makes isn't getting discounts great? an arrest, and makes charges yes! that a prosecutor has said are there's no discount for agreeing with me. unfounded or we don't feel we yeah, i got carried away. could substantiate them. happens to me all the time. helping you save money -- now, that's progressive. call or click today. let's no end writ where the uni has ended it. he made an arrest, he charged someone with a crime that the i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. prosecutor has failed to go forward. only one a day men's 50+ advantage... and i think the media is not dealing with the fact that it is has gingko for memory and concentration. the prosecutor's officer that plus support for heart health. has refuted what the officer had that's a great call. one a day men's. done, not president, not the governor, not civil rights go to hotwire.com. leader, not even dr. gates. when four-star hotels have unsold rooms, the prosecutor said, even before they use hotwire to fill them... an arraign mentarraignment, we' so you get the lowest prices on four-star hotels, guaranteed. ♪ h-o-t-w-i-r-e ♪ hotwire.com

it looks now as though lawmakers will take their august vacations after all, but without reaching an agreement on house or senate versions of health care. this despite rahm emanuel's attempt to rescue the house bill yesterday in marathon negotiating sessions with those blue dog democrats. ron brownstein joins us now. this has been a real roller coaster for the white house, at least. first of all, they got off message, in the news conference. the news conference was designed wednesday night to push health reform, and instead, everyone was talking about -- >> only two questions weren't about health care reform and one of them ended up dominating the

cable and the talk shows after. >> ron, what is happening right now with rahm emanuel, the house side, and the senate side? can you -- >> part of the holdup here, as we talked about earlier this week, is that the moderate, centrist to conservative house democrats are reluctant to kind of place their chips down and vote for a specific bill, until they have a better idea of what might actually pass in the senate. they don't want to vote for provisions that might be politically dangerous for them at home if they think they're not going to be included in the final package. and what will ultimately be included in the senate isn't clear until you have a better idea of what's going to come out of the senate finance committee, which has been going through negotiations since the nixon administration. between the democrat, the chairman, max baucus, and the republicans. max baucus is at the white house today with harry reid meeting with the president. it would be interesting to know what kind of assurances baucus is providing the white house, if any, about which -- there must be a point where he says, we have to move forward. apparently "the washington post"

is saying, he will get something out of his committee by the time of the recess, but we've heard comments like that before. >> and they haven't even been able to move the house. that's sort of stuck with the moderate -- >> i think they're both stuck together. yeah. >> it was interesting, because we were on the air when the senate budget hearing was held a week ago thursday. doug elmendorf's testimony. and as a result of that, max baucus said to his members, i want acctuaries in here, i want to go through numbers again. and that really was a game changer. >> it was. and i think i want people to understand who were listening, there are two separate issues on the cost we're talking about. the first question is, how do you finance the short-term cost of expanding coverage, expected to be about $1 trillion over ten years, maybe a little bit more. can you find, quote, scorable offsets, changes in medicare, particularly in medicaid, as well as tax increases, to pay for that? there's a separate issue, which in some ways more fundamental, and more progress is being made. which is, over the long-term, how do you, quote, bend the curve? the great catchphrase now in

washington, how do you reduce the long-term growth of health care spending, not only for the government, but as the society overall. and an importantly development this week, a positive development for the president is him, the blue dog democrats, and henry waxman reaching an agreement to say, look, we're going to create an independent commission to create changes in medicare over the long-term and how medicare compensates doctors now, it's fee for service, they want to move to a system that rewards not so much volume as value, go to more bundling of payment. the problem in terms of the immediate politics is, doesn't necessarily give you that much that cbo is going to, quote, score to offset the costs. there are two separate issues. how do you pay for the short-term costs, but more fundamentally, how do you change the long-term trajectory of cost. >> bend the curve. where is bill sapphire when we need him? this feeds into overall perceptions, which you cite in your piece today in the "national journal," the polling on what people expect from

government and how people feel about whether or not government can improve their lives. >> part of the challenge for president obama is that since 2004, the change has been greater than the change. attitudes toward government have not changed that much. and today, we put out our second heartland monitor poll, all-state/national journal polling, and asked people, does government create more opportunities or create more obstacles. 52/38 say government creates more obstacles than opportunities. similar to other polling that says there's still a lot of skepticism towards government. and in this environment, it's pushing a rock downhill for opponents to make the argument, you may not be with your health care now, but government is going to make t worse. obama on a lot of fronts wants government to be more involved in sort of driving change in the society, in the economy, and financial regulation. >> he's got a tough -- >> he's got a lift, because he is dealing with decades of

skepticism. after this 2008 meltdown, there's not a lot of faith in either business or government in society and obama does have to deal with that to build support for the kind of things he wants to do. >> let me quickly ask you about sarah palin. he's going to hand over the reigns of government this weekend to her lieutenant governor. a new poll today has pretty bad numbers in terms of favorable, 40%, unfavorable, 53%. she has really lost altitude among those, including republicans, who think that she can really be a credible voice in national office -- not a voice or a star or a comment or a fund-raiser for other candidates, but a national candidate herself. >> talk show host waiting to happen. look, most polling before she resigned, she was still very popular among republicans. but she came out of that election, on election day in the exit poll, 60% of americans said they did not believe she had the skills and the qualities -- she was not ready to be president. and in this polling, you see that same sort of doubt about

whether she was ready to handle complex issues. i think she compounded her problem by resigning in the middle of her first term. she's got a big hill to climb. still popular in the republican party, but with voters outside of the coalition, have to reach to regain power, a lot of hurdles to overcome. >> and she's probably made it worse with the way she's resigning. >> i think resigning was bad enough, and the process wasn't great either. but, you know, now she has time but a lot of work to do and it's not clear she can really -- you never get a second cans to make a first impression and 60% came out of that election saying they did not think she was ready to be president. dan quayle, for instance, was never able to overcome that initial introduction in 1988. >> an interesting weekend, as they have events in alaska trying to overcome exactly that. ron brownstein, thank you. have a great weekend. up next, the bush/cheney years revisited by time magazine, how they spent their final week in office at odds. i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

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and straight ahead, the mayor of cambridge, massachusetts, says she wants to meet with the police to make sure some areas similar to the arrest of harvard professor skip gates never happens again. we will talk with her next. plus, the state of race relations in the united states. how far have we come? congress manning elijah cummings joins us. ♪ who says there's nothing like the taste of cool whip ? ♪ she does. ♪ and she does. ♪ and these guys too. ♪ obviously they do. ♪ oh, and her. ♪

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where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 malibu 1lt with an epa estimated 33 mpg highway. get it now for around 21 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details. . and for more on the growing controversy, continuing controversy over professor gates' arrest, with me now, live, democratic congressman, elijah cummings of maryland, former chair of the congressional black caucus. thanks so much for joining us. what do you think this entire episode tells us about the state of race relations right now? >> i think what it tells us is that we still have problems and that african-american people and

white people may see race relations out of different glasses, eye glasses. and i think that, clearly, i mean, i could understand what the president was saying, and you've got to keep in mind, i think a lot of things that people forget, is that he views these kind of incidents out of the glasses of an african-american man, who knows what it's like, probably, to go through some misunderstood circumstances. so i can understand why he said what he said. >> congressman, is there some way to bridge this gap, now that this has happened and the white house is obviously feeling, you know, not happy about the way the conversation has evolved, there's criticism on all sides, if you're president of the united states, you don't want to take on the larger police community. how do we get back to the middle on this? >> i think we get back to the middle by, perhaps, the president even talking to the

mayor of cambridge, who i know as the police chief, i think doing the right thing, and that is, they establish a committee to oversee this. because, they're saying to themselves, maybe we could have done this better. but i think that there needs -- the president needs to, perhaps, reiterate that he stands behind our police, but at the same time, make it clear that there are incidents, and i've seen them in my own district in baltimore, i live in the inner city and have live there had for 30 years where there is abuse. i think there's a way to say, okay, let's get and make sure we get this right with regard to cambridge, but at the same time, understand that 99% of our police officers, probably 99.9% are great officers that do the right thing all the time, but that we're going to have some problems, occasionally. we don't know whether this one was one of those instances or not. at the same time, let's not just wash our hands and say that these things do not exist. if you talk to almost any

african-american man or woman who has been married or is a mother of an african-american child, male child in particular, they will tell you that every day we go through this certain fear. i was talking to somebody just a moment ago, that i hate to -- that my light is out on my car, i get it fixed as soon as i can, because i know i'll probably get stopped and a lot of us will have to deal with the fact of the color of my skin. that's a fact. >> elijah cummings, thank you very much, congressman. elijah cummings, congressman from maryland, former chairman of the black caucus. joining me now on the phone, the mayor of massachusetts, denise simmons. madame mayor, is that a good suggestion? the congressman is saying there has to be larger conversations about this. >> please repeat the question. you broke up a little bit. >> so sorry. does there need to be a larger conversation to get this past point about the problems that

african-american, men in particular, and latino men, men of color face with law enforcement in many places, especially, as the congressman was saying, in the inner city, where he's lived for 30 years in baltimore. >> this is an important segue to what we're doing in cambridge. one of the important things that we, and i as mayor am looking at, getting a group together, not so much opinion leaders, but community leaders to talk about, what is it we can do in cambridge, taking this as a learning moment, and how can we be a better cambridge? how can we be the cambridge we all want and expect cambridge today. i look forward to the work that we have started to do -- we have started to talk about who should be in the room on those early conversations. >> i know you've defended the police force in this case. have you spoken to the president, the white house, or do you have any response to the way the president handled this at the news conference? >> you know, the president of the united states, the governor is the head of the commonwealth,

but i am the mayor of the city. and when it comes to -- and i can tell you what we're doing in the city. i'll go back to an earlier question that you raised, which is talking about what we can be doing. not that long ago, i had a forum on race and class. it wasn't out of what had happened, but it was about having a discussion around how we treat and live with one another. and so for me, it's how do we go forward and talk about the key issues that are effecting the residents of cambridge and how do we make sure that our family, our children, and all our citizens can live -- and the police can live together cooperatively and in spirit of fairness. >> mayor denise simmons, cambridge, massachusetts, thank you very much for gjoining us o the phone. now to the department of education, where the president is speaking now about billions more that he is proposing for school reform. >> for years we've talked about

overcrowded classrooms, and crumbling schools and corridors of shame across this country. we've talked these problems to death, year after year, decade after decade, while doing all too little to solve them. but thank to arne's leader, thanks to all the dedicated americans in statehouses and schoolhouses and communities across this country, that's beginning to change. we're beginning to break free from the partisanship and the petty bickering that have stood in the way of progress for so long. we're beginning to move past the stale debates about either more money or more reform, because the fact is, we need both. we're beginning to offer every single american the best education the world has to offer, from the cradle to the classroom, from college to careers. in recent months, i've spoken about the different parts of this strategy. i've spoken about what we're doing to prepare community college students to find a job when they graduate, to make college and advanced training more affordable, and to raise

the bar in early learning programs. today i want to talk about what we can do to raise the quality of education from kindergarten through senior year. because improving education is central to rebuilding our economy, we set aside over $4 billion in the recovery act to promote improvements in schools. this is one of the largest investments in education reform in american history. and rather than divvying it up and handing it out, we are letting states and school districts compete for it. that's how we can incentivize excellence and spur reform and launch a race to the top in america's public schools. that race starts today. i'm issuing a challenge to our nation's governors, to school boards and principals and teachers, to businesses and non-for-profits, to parents and the students, if you set and enforce rigorous and challenging standards and assessments, if

you put outstanding teachers at the front of the classroom, if you turn around failing schools, your state can win a race to the top grant that will not only help students outcompete workers around the world, but let them fulfill their god-given potential. this competition will not be based on politics or ideology or the preferences of a particular interest group. instead, it will be based on a simple principle. whether a state is ready to do what works. we will use the best evidence available to determine whether a state can meet a few key benchmarks for reform, and states that outperform the rest will be rewarded with a grant. not every state will win, and not every school district will be happy with the results, but america's children, america's economy, america itself will be better for it. now, one of the benchmarks we

will use is whether states or designing and enforcing higher and clearer standards and assessments that prepare a student to graduate from college and succeed in life. right now, some states like massachusetts are setting high standards, but many others are not. many others are lowballing expectations for students, telling our kids they're prepared to move on to the next grade, even if they aren't, awarding diplomas, even if a graduate doesn't have the acknowledge and skills to thrive in our economy. that's a recipe for economic decline. and it has to stop. with the race to the top fund, we will reward states that come together and adopt a common set of standards and assessments. now, let me be clear, this is not about the kind of testing that has mushroomed under no child left behind. this is not about more tests. it's not about teaching to the test. and it's not about judging a teacher solely on the results of a single test. it is about finally getting

testing right. about developing thoughtful assessments that lead to better results. assessments that don't simply measure whether students can use a pencil to fill in a bubble, but whether they possess basic knowledge and essential skills like problem solving and creative thinking, creativity, and entrepreneurship, and already 46 states are working to develop such standards. i urge those 46 states to finish the job. i urge the other four to get on board. one of the other benchmarks we'll be using in awardi ining grants, is whether outstanding teachers are placed in our top classrooms. from the moment a student enters a school, the single most important factor to their success is the person in front of the classroom. every one of us can point to a teacher that inspired us and in some ways shaped the course of our lives.

great teachers are the bulwark of america and they should be valued and they should be honored. few have worked harder to do that than our national union leaders, randy wine gartner is right here and dennis van rockel, our two union leaders who are here. but if we're honest with ourselves, we'll admit that in too many places, we have no way -- at least no good way of distinguishing good teachers from bad ones. as arne has pointed out in the past, they have 300,000 teachers in california. the top 10% are 30,000 of the best that are out there. the bottom 10% are 30,000 of the worst out there. the problem is, we have no way to tell which is which. that's where data comes in. some places are keeping the electronic records of how a student does from one year to the next and how a class does in

any given year. this helps students, parents, teachers, principals, and school boards no ewhat's working and what's not in the classroom. basketball coaches have a game tape for the team to see what day did right and what they did wrong after a tough series. teachers and principals should have a way of doing the same. now, i recognize there's a concern among some that a teacher won't be judged fairly when we start linking students' performance to the performance of their teachers. and that's why we need to bring teachers into the process and make sure their voices are heard. and that's why -- and that's why we need to make sure we use tests as just one part of a broader evaluation of teachers' performance. but let me be clear. success should be judged by results and data is a powerful tool to determine results.

we can't ignore facts. we can't ignore data. that's why any state that makes it unlawful to link student progress to teacher evaluations will have to change its ways if it wants to compete for a grant. that's why the race to the top grants will go to states that use data effectively to reward effective teachers, to support teachers who are struggling. and when necessary, to replace teachers who aren't up to the job. >> president obama, speaking on education today. we are told that there will be no comments from the president, any further comments on the whole issue of skip gates. but one thing that he is certainly focused on is health care. ginning us now, senator jay rockefeller from the senate, who has been directly involved in a lot of the work that's been done on the health care plan. senator, thanks so much. it's great to see you. let's talk about the progress and the lack of progress. we understand that the house is completely stalemated today. the senate has been waiting on

senator baucus to come out of senate finance. you are familiar with what's going on in those negotiations. has there been any progress on cost containment and on coming up with enough money to fill the $250 billion hole or however large a hole that is going to be? >> the answer is yes, but the literal answer is that only the finance committee has control over medicare and medicaid, and so we're going to be the ones who decide whether that happens or not, which is why i'm really happy about my medpac bill, which would control it without having congressmen and lobbyists messing up the process. but, andrea, what i would really like to say, there are so many -- every time somebody gets mad, every time somebody says something, every time there's not enough progress on the committee or subcommittee or whatever, people get all worried. people have got to calm down a little bit about this. so we've slipped an august date. does that mean the end of

western civilization health care ? not at all. we're plowing ahead. the president decided he would let senate do it first, he would come in at the end. the opposite of the clintons who said, we're going to do and you follow what we said, which didn't work. so i'm not all that discouraged. >> well, it was the white house that set this deadline -- >> i know. >> not you, not us, but without that deadline, what is going to motivate the house and the senate to not only get through this very difficult process, take unpopular steps, in the face of opposition that the opposition will gin up during the august recess? >> well, i mean, yes, and that's always true, it's been ginning up since february, but they've been spending $1.5 million a day trying to feed the health care bill. i just have more faith in the congress. i have more faith in the american people. i know where i'm coming from. i'm incredibly passionate about health care, make no mistake

about that. i'll take anybody on on any subject, but i want a bill. and i think most of us in the senate finance committee want a bill. the american people want a bill. the vista people that i want to work with in evans, west virginia, 40 years ago, want a bill. i'm fighting for them. west virginia needs a bill. america needs a bill. and it's going to happen. it's just, simply, going to happen. it's just not going to happen in an orderly fashion. >> and senator, can you live with some of the things in the house version? will there be a way to reconcile where your head is in the senate finance committee with what the house has been proposing? a fall more liberal -- >> it's probably somewhat inevitable, and that there will be a conference committee. and they say everything is settled in a conference committee, and that's usually the truth. now, the question is, how dug in are people? i'm very much for a millionaire statute. you want to solve cost problems and health care, you can get $500 billion out of millionaires

without them noticing that. some people don't like to pay something and you're serious about the subject, youf got to do what you want to do. i'm more optimistic, andrea, i refuse to get discouraged about it. sometimes, i say things i shouldn't because i am so passionate about it. >> thank you very much, jay rockefeller, great to see you. we will be right back. in a dri. with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy.

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the legacy of the bush-cheney white house is still being debated both inside washington and outside. it is the focus of "time" magazine's report. i was saying to you off camera, i looked at this cover and the whole dispute over the scooter libby pardon and then i read the

story. boy, you guys have delivered. you got a lot of new detail about how tough it was in those final hours. >> we didn't realize bush turned down the pardon three times, including once when they delivered the filed decision with a week to go. somehow the vice president's office managed to get this issue to the table one more time so that bush would have to tell cheney again, finally, on the last full day in office. >> the bragt side, we don't leave our people on the battlefield. scooter libby was a soldier for us. at the same time, the president was convinced that whether correctly or incorrectly, he was persuaded by his attorney that libby did not deser v a pardon. >> we see president bush actually come and do an investigation on his own.

he was concerned that libby was not remorseful enough. he actually had lied and he's fielding it helped bush write this statement a few years earlier that says, this matters if you lie. >> and cheney is not backing down. >> one official called it the elephant in the room the final ten days. >> even now, the former vice president issued a statement saying that he still thinks the pardon should have been delivered. joining us now is chris cillizza. chris, you've covered all of this. what michael and his colleagues have done is deliver extraordinary insight into those final days. >> this is a story i recommended to the readers of my blog this morning. if you care about that relationship, the relationship

between george w. bush and dick cheney is among the most fascinating out there. i think it's so fascinating, too, in light of what happened after the election. after george bush left office. you saw him take a very active role, very public role where as bush has largely stays to himself in dallas, texas. >> this explains, chris and michael, a lot of what we're seeing now and going forward. we're out of time, that does it for me. join david gregory on "meet the press" on sunday. his exclusive, one-hour interview, the first live interview with hillary clinton just back from her trip around the world. he'll be talking with her about all those subjects that are front and center. join john harwood next. he'll talk to the governor of

california. that's next on msnbc, the place for politics. have a great weekend. two medium cappuccinos, you're ready for the mid-morning rush thanks to a good breakfast. one coffee with room, one large mocha latte. medium macchiato, light hot chocolate hold the whip, and two espressos. make one a double. she's fiber focused! i have two cappuccinos, one coffee with room, one large mocha latte, a medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate, hold the whip, and two espressos, one with a double shot. gonna take more than coffee to stay this focused. stay full and focused through the morning... with a breakfast of kellogg's® frosted mini-wheats® cereal; an excellent source of fiber that helps you avoid... the distraction of mid-morning hunger. no thanks, i'm good.

this is "the new york times" hour. you can see john harwood in sacramento, where the governor and state ledge are working tog to deal with the budget crisis. this hour, we're expecting john to sit down live with governor schwarzenegger and talk about the hard choices made and state of the republican party. i'm contessa brewer. following a story that has sp k sparked a national debate. just a short time ago, a spirited defense of a police officer who arrested a black

harvard professor in his home leading to accusations of racism. the police union says he did nothing wrong and took on president obama for calling the officer's actions stupid. how would the white house respond? a briefing from robert gibbs is expected anytime. we'll have it here. and there's john harwood with me this hour. john's in california, where the budget crisis has come to a head. but first, the gates arrest. president obama may be stepping back from his comments that the police officer's actions were stupid. it was said that he reported the comment only because it became immediate disstrax.

reporters will likely press gibbs on the situation. we'll bring you that briefing when we