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sunday," pale little's parting. her picnic-style tour in fairbanks. we ask what's next. new swooi worries. recession regression. is it finally over? new hopeful signs of a turn-around. food fight at popular restaurant chain comes under legal fire for breakfast fare. hitting the wall, a race car driver's harrowing moments in the fast lane. good morning to all of you. i'm alex witt. thank you very much for joining us. it's 9:00 on the east coast. 6:00 a.m. on the west. sarah palin is stepping down as governor of alaska in just a matter of hours. she's embarked on a series of farewell picnics this weekend to thank the residents of her own state. nbc's norah o'donnell is live in fairbanks this morning. another good sunday morning to you. let's talk about what sarah palin is saying in her departing days here to her alaska

residents. >> reporter: good morning to you, alex. this is it for sarah palin. later today she is going to resign as governor of alaska. she is going to give up her powerful perch for what it is not clear. what we do know is yesterday she took a seven-hour road trip from anchorage to fairbanks in a camper full of kids and coffee and listening to country music. how do we know that? she likes to use twitter a lot. she tweeted the details including all the different country music as well as black eyed peas on the trip up here. she's going to give a farewell speech in fairbanks. it's coming full circle for her. this is where she was sworn into office. she has a year left in her term. she's not saying what's next for her political future. >> how about where you're standing? yesterday you were buy this beautiful pristine little lake or part of a river there. where are you now? >> a little treat for you here, alex. we are actually standing on the

deck of "uss nanna" which happens to be the second largest wooden hulled ship in the world. this is also known as the queen of the you con, the lady of the river. this actually used to take goods and supplies up and down the you con river as well as the cheen nah river here in fairbanks. this big, beautiful boat -- it looks like a movie set. this is in pioneer park. this is going to be the backdrop for where sarah palin gives her resignation speech. right down there on that stage is where sarah palin, after she serves up some barbecue to the thousands of people here is going the take the stage and deliver this farewell speech she's been writing. not only probably the thanking the people of alaska, but giving a hint about how she wants to effect change in the future. one other interesting thing, this is a beautiful park,

pioneer park at fairbanks alaska, celebrating the annual golden days, the discovery of gold which happened here in fairbanks over a hundred years ago. so here in fairbanks they have this annual picnic here. there's going to be five -- more than 5,000 people that will pack these fairgrounds, not only to get some barbecue from sarah palin who is going to be dishing it out, but also delivering this farewell speech here in this park. alex, pretty cool, huh? >> absolutely beautiful. i'm curious with regard to security. is there going to be a lot of security in place? you're out there running around. that's all fine and dandy. they have a few hours to clear things out in your wake. is it going to be the kind of thing with 6,000 or so in attendance, will there be a lot of security there? is it just not the way you do things in alaska? >> it's a little different here in alaska. well, it's 5:00 in the morning here in alaska right now. so the sun is just coming up. it happens that we can take full run of the place if you know what i mean. there aren't too many people

watching and restricting our movement. but there is going to be security here. for the most part, this is alaska, people are respectful. it's not the type of -- you know, where you have to go through mags like other places in the united states. this is a different kind of place. this is an annual picnic that they have. in fact, the guys cooking the barbecue have been here all night. if only we coupled transmit smell through television, you could get a real sense -- me and the crew and our producers, we decided against having barbecue with our coffee, but maybe later. >> probably a good idea. you can continue working for a couple more hours. norah, thanks so much. the latest gallup poll shows sarah palin is still very popular with the republican base. among republicans and republican-leaning independence, she has a 72% favorable rating and 21% unfavorable rating. i've been getting a lot of of responses to sarah palin's resignation on twitter this

morning. barkway tweeted this, if the gop is smart, they will use palin as a party cheerleader and fund-raiser but not as a serious candidate for president. there's this tweet from russell, sarah palin is running for president, she has out grown alaska, a strong following between conan o'brien and david letterman. i want to hear what you have to say. logon to twitter.com/alexwitt and let me know what you think. the ranking republican on the judiciary committee has said he's made his decision on how to judge for judge sotomayor. jeff sessions will reveal his joyce when the committee casts its votes. right now voting is scheduled for it is. republic . let's go to a new report on the president's trillion dollar health care plan. a white house proposal that was expected to generate savings will probably do little to

reduce health care costs over the next ten years. mike viqueira joins us live from washington. good sunday morning to you. >> reporter: good morning, alex. >> i'm understanding the president's budget director isn't a particular fan of this report? >> reporter: no. the irony is he used to be the head of the ng co-al budget office, the author of this report. the only thing good you can say about this report if you're a democrat or a white house person here add kalting health care reform that the president has put forward is that it came out on a friday, friday night -- actually on a saturday in a letter to democratic leaders in congress. the president has for days been talking about his new proposal that would create a commission to oversee medicare costs. let's have a look at the particulars of it. he called it imac, independent medicare advisory council, formed by medical professionals, proposed by the administration in reaction to another estimate that said the cost of health care would actually rise under the president's plan such as it is in congress. it is a five-member independent

council. it would set medicare policies. yet another bomb from the spoiled sports at cbo. it said imac would save $2 billion over the next ten years. that doesn't do much to curve the growth downwards, bend the curve downwards as they say in washington these days. sure to come as a blow to the president's health care proposal which is already facing a very rocky time in congress as democrats are sniping at each other, fighting over the details, unable to get this reform on the floor of the senate and not even on the house, alex. >> okay. mike v., thanks so much. we'll see you next hour. a new gallup poll shows seven in ten americans favor the pass kaj of health care reform legislation. 44% say legislation needs to be passed this year. 30% say it doesn't need to be passed by the end of the year. 24% say no legislation is needed. the poll was conducted after president obama's prime time news conference emphasizing the

importance on moving quickly on health care reform legislation. i'm joined live by steve thomma. if 71% of americans are willing to wait till the end of the year or longer, which why is the administration pushing so hard to have the bill as soon as possible? >> the number one reason is they've got some support still in congress. but it's dropping. the president's numbers have been dropping for weeks. a lot of that i think is tied to the fact that unemployment is going up and people are losing trust and confidence in president obama. if he's right and unemployment is going to continue to go up into the fall, his numbers are going to continue to go down. he loses political capital, loses the clout he has of congress. the faster he gets it, the better chance he has to get as much as he can. the longer it takes, the less support he's going to have, the closer it gets him to 2010 which is an election year. house members get a lot more nervous about a big change. it becomes even more difficult.

>> okay. part of the problem may be the timing here, coming on the heels of the economic stimulus plan and all that. people may feel financially tapped out. i want to read this from vice president joe biden who has a new op ed who uses the paper to set the record straight. it is not being spent on pet projects. what is driving the vice president to put this out now? >> well, they are losing support. they've got the $800 billion spending plan out there, not much has actually been spent. but the public is aware that they're on course to spend nearly a trillion dollars. and they're seeing no benefit. unemployment has gone up from 8% to pushing towards ten. it's not going down. by all accounts from the white house, it's going to continue to go up before it gets better. they know they've got to sell the recovery act as working even before it's working because it's affecting the rest of their agenda.

>> okay. steve thomma, thanks for weighing in as always. appreciate that. >> my pleasure. for your daily politics fix logon to firstread.msnbc.com. an electrical fire forced a southwest airlines jet to make an emergency landing just this morning at macarthur airport in islip, new york, southwest flight 693 flying from connecticut's bradley airport to orlando, florida, when the fire broke out. the plane has landed safely. it was carrying 136 people including crew members. we're told no one was hurt. we'll keep you posted on this story and bring you more details when they become available. we haven't heard much about the swine flu lately, but you will. the swine flu could come back with a fury and soon. you're going to want to make sure you hear what we're about to tell you about the swine flu in just a moment. also ahead on the rebound, the economic making a comeback, does that mean the recession is finally over? here is hoping, right? you're watching "msnbc sunday." i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

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now to the fight against the swine flu, an alarming new projection from the cdc. health officials say up to 40% of americans can get swine flu in the next 24 months. the centers for disease control and prevention also say several hundred thousand could die without a successful vaccine campaign and other measures. since the swine flu outbreak began, health officials suspect more than a million people have come down with that illness. today authorities are searching hospitals in southern california for gunmen who may have been involved in the shooting death of a u.s. border patrol agent. at least two gunmen may have been wounded in that thursday shooting near the border in southeastern san diego county. on saturday mexican authorities announced the arrests of four men suspected in the shooting. robert rojas is the first border

patrol agent killed. he leaves behind two children. the l.a. coroner's office is expect expected to release findings on the autopsy report conducted on the pop star. let's head across the studio to msnbc.com entertainment correspondent courtney hazel. >> one of the few people who had firsthand knowledge of who took that medication is his nurse and nutritionist, cherilyn lee who joins us by phone. thank you for joining us. >> of course. thank you for having me. >> i want to ask you questions first about michael jackson's state of mind as well as his health since this is a big topic since we're expecting the toxicology reports this week. you said that three months before he died he asked you for diprivan. and you explained to him that it

just was not safe. can you tell us a little bit more about what his state of mind was like when he asked for it and when you told him that you didn't think he should have it? >> he was -- his state of mind, he was -- it was in the early morning when he started asking for it in the month of april. he was just to the point he just wanted a good night's sleep. from his past, he kind of felt that he knew what he would feel if he were to have a diprivan. >> so is it your opinion that he had had it before to help him sleep? >> he definitely had it before because he knew exactly -- it was an iv. he knew that once the iv started and the first drip, he was very emphatic about it, he said i would be asleep. >> did you ask him who had given it to him before? >> i asked him who had given to

him before. he was very vague about it and he wouldn't answer who had given it to him. he just wanted to have it because he wanted to get sleep. he was using it for insomnia because someone made him feel it was safe to use it. >> we heard in the past that he was taking a variety of different medications. two drugs were seized from the office of michael's personal physician, dr. conrad murray. were you aware that he was taking those drugs? >> no, i was not. i know he -- i saw him quite frequently from january until april, and there was no signs of any drugs he was taking. i in the past worked in chemical dependency, and there was no signs of any drugs. he was not the type of person who wanted to walk around and feel sedated. he set a very good example for his children. that's something i know he would not have done. >> i just want to talk about his children in a moment. but before then, i know when you

first met him you did a full blood screening panel to get a nutrition assessment for him. did that blood screening reveal any red flags that you recall? >> none, not at all. a couple minor things that it showed. we addressed that through his diet and nutrition and actually it was corrected. >> the only red flags that came up were things that could be adjusted with diet and normal life changes? >> right. actually those were brought to normal within 45 days. >> so he was feeling better as well? >> oh, he was feeling great. he had energy. even in the media during the time that i was seeing him and the comment was that he had never looked as good and never looked so healthy. >> i want to ask you a little bit about when you first met michael jackson. it was actually to treat his children. a lot of people didn't realize until the memorial actually just how close he was with his kids. can you talk a little bit about what kind of dad he was. what was his

your fondest memory of michael jackson, cherilyn? >> my fondest memory is, you know, he loved to hug. and one day before i left i gave him a hug because he had -- my birthday was the same day as blanket's. they gave me a surprise gift. and when i stood back and he looked at me. he said, look at this, look how grateful -- it was so many

moments with him that i felt very fond. he was the humblest person i had ever come in contact with. for him to be such an angelic person and pop star for years and just a wonderful person in person. there were so many fond memories, so many. >> cherilyn, thank you very much for sharing those memories and for shedding some light on what his last months were like. we really appreciate it. >> and he was really looking forward to the concert. he was so happy he was going to be there and his children was going to be there to watch him perform. actually he had a list of the songs he was going to be going through and his children even interacted with him about the music he was going to be performing. >> i think we can all agree it's definitely sad he wasn't able to live that out. cherilyn, thank you so much for joining us. alleges, back to you. >> that was a good interview.

thank you for bringing it to us courtney. piano man billy joel is sicking out. he and elton john have had to postpone two performances. the elton john billy joel face to face tour has been the nation's top grossing tour for the last two months. you're on the move and you're already up to a thousand yards in just half an hour. that's why you need a diaper that flexes in all the right places. cruisers with comfort flex. it flexes to fit in high motion areas, especially around the legs and waist. it's our best fit ever to help stop leaks no matter how much you move. cruisers, with comfort flex. ♪ from pampers.

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the president's original deadline for the health care vote. for more on whether these are bumps in the road or if there's more trouble, i'm joined by jonathan alter, a senior kol luft nift for "news week." you have the cbo saying the plan the president puts forward is only going to save by their estimates $2 billion over ten years and beyond that, not much to sweek of. that's a lot different than what president obama put out there. >> out of a tril yoon dollars, $2 billion doesn't go very far. >> it doesn't at all. >> this is part of the sausage-making process. that compare making laws to making sausage. right now we're right in there in the sausage factory. you have all these competing forces with huge amounts of money, great entrenched enter efts behind them. they're all competing. and within the congress, even within the democratic party, they're trying to reconcile these different versions of the bills that partly depend on the jurisdiction of the house

committee, for instance, or the ways an means committee to give you a quick example. they deal with raising the revenues. the education and labor committee deals with a lot of the new provisions. then henry waxman's committee also is involved. you've got chairman waxman, chairman miller and chairman wrangle who are all right now wrangling, so to speak, what the house bill will be like. in the senate, all the action is in the senate finance committee. for people who are getting into this as sport, which i recommend -- we're talking about 1/6 of the american economy. it's a lot more important than most of what's going on out there. we might as well start to get into the details, into the players, learn who these committee chairmen are, what are their particular interests, learn about what the cbo in this case is recommending. i think only now are a lot of americans starting to tune in and say, all right, let's really get involved in some of the

details. >> let's talk about the details in the democratic party itself. you've got the liberal democrats, the blue dog, fiscally conservative democrats back at the bargaining table trying to figure out if they can come up with some workable solution and all be on the same page. there was a real meltdown on friday. is this level of inner party clashing typical for something like this? if the blue dogs were to come on board, would the democrats have smooth sailing? >> first of all, in the house it's going to work out. they have such a strong majority in the house. i don't think the blue dogs can stop this from happening. the alternative is the status quo. the status quo is unsustainable. it's not popular back in their districts. so they're arguing about a lot of details, but this train is still basically on track. that's something that's important to keep in mind as we have these various bumps in the road. >> even though not done before the congressional recession? >> no. >> even though there are a lot of people out there, over 70% of

the population says we don't have to get this done this year. we can cool our jets. we don't feel like -- everything else we've had to put out as taxpayers -- >> a lot can happen in a recession. and you can have other issues that come along and push this out of the way. they could get a different kind of reaction back at home when these members go home. it's not likely that democratic members of congress are going to want to deal their own president such a severe blow. that's what would be involved if this were rejected. they would be basically really hurting their own president. that's not smart politics. at a certain point, most of these blue dog democrats are going to recognize that. they're going to try to get as much as they can in the meantime, and that's why they're arguing over the details of these bills are hundreds and hundreds of pages. >> i want to ask you what lawmakers on both sides of the aisle can take away from the

lessons learned with president bill clinton's attempt at health care reform. >> well, there were two big mission takes that bill clinton and hillary clinton who was running that made in 1994. first, they just dropped this big bill on the desk of congress and said pass it. congress went, wait a minute. it's our job to make laws. don't tell us what to do. so the obama folks have gone for a much more cooperative way of proceeding. they brought in the interest groups, gotten more what they call buy-in from the organizations like the american medical association, which is for legislation. everybody know has to say they're for it, even if they're scrambling over the details. >> just in what form, right. >> that's the first mistake. they tried to accept it as something, accept this or reject it. the second mistake is that clinton wouldn't compromise. actually bill clinton wanted to compromise, hillary did not in 1994. so they missed an opportunity to get through half a loaf or

three-quarters of a loaf. actually barack obama said to me in february of last year that he was not going to be in that position that bill clinton was in where bill bradley and some other members, pat moynihan came and said, here's the compromise and clinton rejected it. barack obama said to me, i am not going to be that president who just rejects compromise. he's willing to compromise, take half a loaf, three-quarters of a loaf. we don't know what that loaf will consist of, but that is critically important. that's still where the odds overwhelmingly favor some kind of legislation this year. >> okay. jonathan alter, great to talk to you about this. thank you for your perspective as always. in politics you can never have too many friends. if you are microsoft co-founder bill gates, it seems you can. the billionaire said he had to quit facebook because he got too many requests to be friends. he had 10,000 people wanting to be his friend. instead of picking and choosing who to okay as a friend, gates

gave up and completed his page altogether. he said it was just too much trouble. you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet. all: hi, john! going to college and need a laptop. what do you got? you, in the top corner. our next class laptops could be perfect for you. we got student feedback and designed them specifically for college. are they legit brands, though? boom! we partnered with hp, toshiba, sony and dell. okay. uh, what's the square root of 841? 29. announcer: laptops designed for college and thousands of people eager to help. right now, all over the country, discover card customers are getting

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the recession is over. now what? that is the cover of "newsweek" magazine. does it really mean the recession is behind us? joining me live in the studio is steve forbes, chairman and ceo of forbes media, also editor and chief of "forbes" magazine and the authority of "power, ambition and glory." before i get to your book, let's talk a little bit about the economy here in general. the cover this week, "the recession is over. now what," first, do you think the recession is over? and if it is, now what? >> well, it is in a statistical

sense. there is going to be growth in the second half of this year, particularly in the fourth quarter. the real question is how big will it be? what you see unfolding so far, very jagged, very uneven. the credit system, while it's in far better shape than it was six months ago still is not fully recovered. small businesses are having a very difficult time getting borrowings, rolling over their existing loans, a lot of consumers the same thing, getting loans to buy a car or even a home, still not working smoothly. so it's going to be a pretty rough one and most people aren't going to feel it until next year, the recovery. >> what about when you look at signs on the dow. best couple weeks in a row there since 2000. what does this tell us about economic recovery or could this be a false start? how much does this play into the recovery overall? >> well, the dow still is barely above what it was at the beginning of the year which was way down from what it was a year before. there's still a lot of ground to recover. what you saw in the last few

weeks, the last couple weeks, was the realization that, one, cap and trade is probably going to pass this congress and health care is going to be very different from the take of the administration's vision just a couple weeks ago. i think it was a reaction to news from washington, not just from what's happening in the economy. >> what is the difference between this recession and one ins the past? say the one in the early to mid '80s, what's the difference between them? does this mean the one we're in now will force us to get out of it more slowly? >> this is fundamentally different in that the financial system almost went into cardiac arrest a year ago which did not happen in the recession ins the '90s and earlier part of the decade. it was highly unusual. that's why it was so severe in the first and fourth quarters of this year. the recovery is going to be at least jagged. it should be a much stronger recovery. i'm a little surprised the administration hasn't done more to get the financial system back on its feet. >> unemployment, it is expected

to peak in the next couple months. then what happens? how long does it take for that to return? >> that's going to depend on how vigorously these small businesses can come back. that gets to the credit system. if small businesses are having a hard time getting credit, rolling over credit, their inclination is going to be to hang on by their fingernails, clutch their cash, not do the kind of hiring needed to get this unemployment rate back to 6% or 7%. >> time for the book. let's get to "power, ambition and glory." it draws parallels with leaders today. what's the big takeaway from this book? >> times and circumstances may change. the essence of leadership doesn't change. you have leaders who are strong but may over reach, leaders who don't focus on things and don't get much done. i think this current administration, president obama has made a fundamental mistake in that he's guilty of overreaching. he tried to do too much too

quickly which is why colin powell, who backed him in the last campaign, rapped his knuckles publicly saying you're going to end up with a lot of dust on your hands unless you focus on one or two major things and convince people. that's one thing that comes out of this book, even back in ancient times. you have to convince those around you this is the right course to take or eventually they'll turn on you. what you see with the blue dog democrats in congress today, a lot of persuasion goes along with leadership. >> you ran for president. if you had been elected to office say this last term in place of barack obama and had this financial mess on your hands, what would you do differently? >> i would have done a few fundamental things different. one is i would have made the dollar policy strong and stable instead of the weak one they've continued from the bush administration which was a huge mistake. i would have tried to put in a flat tax, reduce tax rates rather than increase them. >> that's been your mantra. >> those two critical area.

on health care i'd try to get more power no the hands of patients instead of the government controlling health care in the future, allow you to control the money, not the government or insurance companies. >> steve forbes, i love this book. i read through a little bit of it. i think it's terrific. great to read at night and certainly take some lessons and apply to today "power, ambition and glory." steve forbes, thank you so much. >> appreciate it. you can find his latest book at a bookstore near you. a new jersey man is suing denny's restaurant over salt. that lawsuit filed in in court saying some of the meals are dangerously high in sodium. it aims to get the chain to list sodium content on the menu. let's bring in lisa green to talk about this. >> what does this lawsuit charge that denny's is doing wrong. >> this is a suit brought by the center for science in the public

interest which some people call the food police. they're claiming denny's is deceptive when they fail to make it abundantly clear that some of their meals contain multiples of the amount of sodium that is recommended that you eat in a day. >> we looked up a couple of the most salt-ridden meals. here is a few of them. double cheeseburger. 3,830, moon over miami, 2580 milligrams. we're talking about meals like the meat lovers scramble, 5690 mig grams. we can go on and on and on. where does the restaurant's responsibility end and the consumer's responsibility begin? >> you raised an excellent point. i asked the lawyer what he thought about that. no one is going to mistake a denny's meal for carrot sticks

and celery. he said you can look on the website or ask for a pamphlet. what this group wants is clear labeling on the menu so diners can make a more informed choice. they're saying excess amounts of sodium, not so healthy for you. >> here is what denny's has to say officially about this lawsuit. denny's believes the lawsuit is frivolous without merit and the company will fight aggressively in court. denny's offers a wide variety of choices for consumers with different lifestyles understanding many have special dietary needs. is this the kind of argument that's going to work in this case? >> it's unclear how far the lawsuit will proceed. after all, being honest, what this organization really wants to do is effect change. they've been successful in the past on issues like trance trans fans. we'll watch closely with your held as always, lisa green, thank you. >> pleasure, alex. in just a moment, a reason to fear in the fast lane. a racer's view of his near fatal

head-on collision. it's frightening. you're washing "msnbc sunday." new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 silverado xfe with an epa estimated 21 mpg highway for under 28 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details.

check out this extraordinary helmet cam video. the driver is hit with flying debris, loses control of that car. as you can see, he's going to plow right into a wall during yesterday's hungarian grand prix qualifier. he's pulled from the wreckage with a life-threatening skull fracture. however, he has emerged from surgery in stable condition. that's frightening stuff there. let's go to politics, a new article in today's washington host. examines president obama's decision to push forward with the most jam packed agenda since ly lyndon johnson's administration. some say he's making a mistake, saying, quote, if he moved more slowly with a narrower focus, he could have nurtured his electoral majority and emerged with a bigger mandate to pursue his postponed campaign agenda.

i'm joined by eleanor clift and jonathan allen. good morning the two of you. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> let's get to what you make of this argument, eleanor. what do you think? >> i think there were a lot of "ifs" in there. if you look at what the president is doing, he's got two agendas, the one he inherited which resulted in the stimulus package and and over all of the financial services industry which is an oversight package working its way through congress. then he has the agenda he ran on which is health care, energy independence and education. i don't think he wants to give up either, and i don't think the voters want him to give up either. if he gets a health care bill, as it looks likely he will get something before the end of the year, success begets success. and i think he is -- if he loses, of course, all the dominos could fall. but i think he's had a very

successful legislative year so far and the fact that he was able to defeat the funding of additional f-22s which is a boondoggle that congress has been supporting, that was a huge victory, and it got largely unreported. or the magnitude of it got largely unreported. >> i'm curious, jonathan, do you think the health care push might have gone smoother if it wasn't coming on the heels of energy reform, sweeping economic measures all to fight the recession? >> absolutely. there's a lot of argument made on capitol hill right now to that effect, that particularly speaker nancy pelosi wanted to get that legislation done. what happened is members of congress went home to their district and got an earful from people who believed that was later going to cost them in energy bills. the cap and trade system probably isn't going to end up being made into law this year. but there's nothing that makes lawmakers more nervous than an upcoming election, than going back home and getting an earful from constituents. they came back and said, wait a

minute, maybe we should put the brakes on health care. >> eleanor, quickly, this is not the first time this charge has been leveled at the obama administration. can you put things in perspective for us in terms of how this president's start compared to presidents past? >> the clinton administration also put health care up front. they didn't get a bill to congress until november of the first year. and i think the fact that you've got bills working their way through congress, okay, he's not going to get a vote before the august recession. i think he's way ahead. i do think this is a lyndon johnson moment. this is a president who won with a pretty big mandate. a lot of pent-up needs in the country, particularly in the democratic party. i they they've got the numbers in the senate and the house. if this president doesn't act now before next year's election year kicks in, i think he would have lost an opportunity. so i think he's doing the right thing. >> okay.

eleanor and jonathan, that's going to have to be a wrap. jonathan, nick says he's sorry to you for it being uneven. >> perfectly fine. take care. >> don't let him off the hook like that. eleanor clift and jonathan allen, thank you. now to a story about bad monkeys in india. they've become such a menace that a school is being set up to teach wild monkeys to quit messing with humans. this youtube are -- wildlife officials in india want to teach the misbehaving monkeys to stop attacking people and act more like wild monkeys and attack their own, or tigers. you're watching msnbc sunday. i'm meteorologist bill karins with your sunday forecast. after a stormy saturday

afternoon in the ohio valley, those storms will push to the eastern seaboard with more firing up during the afternoon. watch out from new york to d.c. won't rain all day but you will see some. dallas to san antonio continuing hot, cool in the great lakes, right around chicago. the heat wave is building in the northwest. have a great day. hey bets, can i borrow a quarter? sure, still not dry? i'm trying to shrink them. i lost weight and now some clothes are too big. how did you do it? simple stuff. eating right and i switched to whole grain. whole grain... studies show that people who eat more whole grain tend to have a healthier body weight. multigrain cheerios has five whole grains... and 110 calories per lightly sweetened serving. more grains. less you. multigrain cheerios. [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene helps make hair strong against damage in 14 days. good housekeeping gave it their seal. damage protection results leading salon brands can't beat. [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene.

the next chapter in the controversial arrest of a harvard professor is starting to

unfold. the invitation from president obama stands. both professor and the officer say they'll go to washington. implts joining me armstrong williams, syndicated radio talk show host. from philadelphia, stephen collins, "philly speaks" on 107.9. good morning. >> good morning. >> i'm glad you're both here. armstrong, you're there in d.c. not too far from where things are happening from the white house perspective. what are your listeners there saying about this story? >> the question they feel which has not been asked is, what would professor gates have wanted the police to do if he had been informed that his house was being burglarized and they -- the description was a black man, cops would have said it was just professor gates and not show up and there was a burglary going on. they had no choice but to show up. obviously they did not feel the police officers should have arrested him in his home for

disorderly conduct, but they felt his release was totally in line. mr. gates who obviously has a different kind of relationships with officers acted sort of belligerently and in defiance and disrespectful. he did admit he could have done things differently. the police officer decided to arrest him for disorderly conduct, but all in all, the police officer was definitely in line in carrying out their job and their responsibilities. >> that's from your listeners there in washington. stephen, you were just on the air this morning. what was being discuss dad? >> that's all we talked about the whole morning. everybody called in to focus principally on at the point that a harvard law professor identified himself, why was this policeman, who has a great track record with racial issues, not just say, okay, thank you, and leave? for him not to do it did look a little weird.

if you examine that this is an nice neighborhood, people don't usually have these kinds of issues. why not just say, okay, thank you, and leave? for him to say there and i thought for a really courageous commander in chief to arrest it, suggested that two guys lost their -- lost their way a little bit, overreacted. the principle issue is one had a badge and a gun and the ability to arrest, the other just had a cain and a harvard law degree. why not just slow down for a minute? ultimately i'm hoping the issue is so big that it gets people talking and changing their attitudes about police and african-americans and the overarching issue of race relations in america. >> do you agree with professor gates, steven, who says he's agreed to come to the white house and do this, hopes the it will be a teachable moment? do you think that which will come from the president, the sergeant and the professor

having beer at the white house will be something to influence the future and shape the way we look at race relations in this country? >> just look at our history. every time something major happens, when then-candidate obama was here in philadelphia at national constitution center and addressed the issue of race, the first thing that happened was people started talking about it and didn't hide it. look at george wallace. look at dr. king who said that we all have an opportunity to change if we begin to address this. that's what the civil rights movement really produced, an atmosphere where people talk. are things better? certainly. are they perfect? no. will they ever be perfect? probably not. but as long as we're talking to each other, and opening the possibility of accepting cultures, change can occur. >> armstrong, part of this conversation involves a very popular and country's first black president. how much does that change the equation in terms of the discussion and the ability to affect change? what do you think on that? >> well, i think that the

president -- >> this is for armstrong. >> go ahead, armstrong. >> president barack obama is the president of the united states. president barack obama should never have gotten himself involved this this situation in the first place because there is not an issue of race. this is an issue of someone who called and reported what they assumed was a burglary in a neighborhood. and to refer to the cops as "stupidly," was -- obviously he regretted that remark. so the president injected himself into the conversation, turned it into an issue of race. you mention about the meeting that they're going to have at the white house over beer. you know, it's very interesting. it seems as though there is this black intellectual society who have problems with police officers and are willing to inject race, but if you talk to every-day american blacks who have relationships with police officers, they're in their community, they're in their schools, they have this bond of trust, they develop and

understand the role police play in our society so they're not disruptive. the conversation needs to have among black intellectuals. every-day black people understand the police are just doing their job. >> yeah, but you also have to consider the reality, armstrong, that while we recognize the enormous job police officers do, there is, without a doubt, a history of that dynamic between white cops and black men. and that happens. i think the president had every right -- i applaud him for standing up and making this an issue that we all are looking at today. go right on, president barack obama, for being true to your self-. >> armstrong, quick last word to you. >> the bottom line is, this is an unfortunate situation. i'm sure the proper shore was humiliated, insulted. i'm sure if he had to do it over agaie