we turn now to our robot resistance correspondent kent jones. hi, kent. >> hi, rachel. you know, a group of computer scientists got together to discuss the future of technology. is it going to be good? is it going to be evil? what i want to know is, are the machines about to take over? this "new york times" headline implied, yes, yes, they are. it's a worse case scenario. our laptops and atms and iphones are catching up to us and now they want payback. and after that -- terminators. this is just my carbon-based lizard brain overreacting, or is some super-smart hal about to lock the pod bay doors on humanity. >> this sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been geared to human error. >> reporter: no, the brain trust

says relax, we're a long way from super evolved master hard drive controlling everything. also, they say there's not much chance of artificial intelligence bringing up spontaneously from the internet. giving up the stuff clogging the web these days? why would it? but they say robots are getting scary smart and in time will be more like us. there have been experiments with machines that simulate empathy. yes, empathy from a machine. it sounds like we're closing in on a mythical robot friend with benefits. and sophisticated machines are going to absorb more and more jobs that used to be done by humans. at first, it will be the unsexy ones no one wants to do, but as they evolve, machines will start taking the cool jobs, too.

and then we've really got problems. >> no union problems there, i guess. thanks, kent. >> sure. and thank you at home for watching tonight. bend it like beck? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, suspicious minds. did you hear? obama pals around with terrorists? obama's not an american. did you hear? this one's the best just in from glen beck. obama's a racist. he hates white people. like his mother and his grandparents who helped raise him and all the people who voted for him? got you. the worst part is that people are getting paid to say this stuff. saying the whole thing was illegitimate. who holds a deep seated hatred for white people.

that's also from glen beck. that's what we're starting with tonight. back to the real stuff of politics what, most americans think. we've got the latest from the new nbc news "wall street journal" poll out tonight. the headline, the president's health care blan is losing ground and so are the democrats at least from where they were in inaugural season. chuck todd and political analyst charlie cook will go through the numbers with you. also, just because the democrats are hurting doesn't mean all is well with the other party. here's what senator george voinovich of ohio said about some of his fellow republicans. we've got too many jim demints and tom coburns. it's the southerners. people hear them and say these people, they're southerners. the party is being taken over by southerners. is the party of lincoln getting weighted down by the refugees from the democratic party down in dixie? we've now got republicans opposing health care reform by telling people that the government is coming to your house to ask you how you want to die. well, that's what they're saying about the health care bill.

is this more of the malarky? that's in the politics fix tonight. plus what, general colin powell has to say about mr. afternoon delight himself, rush limbaugh in the "hardball" sideshow. first, fox news host glen beck said this early tuesday about president obama. >> this president i think has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep seated hatred for white people or the white culture. i don't know what it is. >> fox was so concerned by that that it issued a statement separating itself from it. here's a statement from bill schein, the senior vice president of programming for fox news. "during fox & friends this morning, glen beck expressed a personal opinion which represented his own views, not those of the fox news network." that's interesting they put that out. former congressman quaes oh fumemy and joan walsh. thank you for join us tonight. glen beck also called president obama, let me get this quote, can we move that quote up there

right now? move up the quote. let's listen to it. >> i'm not saying that he doesn't like white people. i'm saying he has a problem. he has a, this guy is, i believe, a racist. look at the things that he has been surrounded by. >> what do you make of that, congressman? >> well, i can't even believe it, first of all. glen beck owes the president an apology, the american people an apology. this is an insult to our democracy and our way of life. it's throwing out race and trying to find a way to divide people. at the same time, he's wise enough to know maybe he can move his numbers up. i don't know if he wants to overtake one of his colleagues at fox in terms of ratings. this sort of thing is terrible. if fox says that's not their position, the question becomes what is their position regarding the president. >> let me go to joan because the congressman raised the issue that maybe this is for commercial purposes. that's my hunch. >> mine too. >> i also have a deeper hunch. i don't know glen personally or

what his goals are. i think a lot of this is aimed at telling people who are racist on the other side, you're not so bad. he's as bad as are you. he's a racist too. >> he's a racist, too. it's not too because they're not racist. i wrote about this today, chris. i see it with both glen beck and with rush limbaugh, there's a clear case of projection here where these guys with suspect racial feelings are projecting their own hate and divisiveness on to a president who as you said had a white mother, was raised by white grandparents and there's no evidence at all that he anything but loves white people. obama got to where he was in my opinion largely because he makes white people feel like he knows we're all trying really hard and we really like it when black people make us feel that way. i believe that this man -- i heart laughter. appreciate it. i believe that this man is a

bridge builder. i can criticize him on this or that, but the idea that he's racist is so sick, and i just want to finally say about fox, issuing a statement criticizing or separating yourself from his statement, separate yourself from him, fox news. find another host. you're profiting from his hate and then trying to have it both ways and saying we don't believe that. that's crap. >> well, you know, we've had mr. ufume, former head of the naacp. let me just ask you, it seems after 400 years in this country, african-americans living here longer than our grandparents lived here, where does this fit in? >> it doesn't fit in. hate groups, hate crimes don't fit in in the america we know today. for this to take place and for there to be silence in the ranks of many on this comment is interesting. black people, white people, latinos, asians, people work every day to struggle to make a

living for their family and have a nice neighborhood to try to live in to try to enjoy life. this sort of thing says all that's out the window because this person is a racist and i don't like you and you should not like him. when we start going down that slippery slope it, ends dialogue. i would hope that persons who don't like this which i know are most americans will pull back from the sponsors who continue to sponsor the shows that allow mr. beck and others to make money and get good salaries. don't buy the products, don't buy the services and pull back and send a very real mess and that there's no room in this america for that kind of talk. >> you know, joan, you and i have been on television together an awful lot together over the years. do you believe you know this guy beck enough to make that accusation that he's really charged by racism himself or that rush limbaugh is? >> you know. >> do you really believe you think you know their motives enough to say that.

>> i really do, i'm sorry, chris, because i think that words have consequences and i think if you -- i judge people not only by their words but what they do. and if you look at people who have a pattern who have built a career out of dividing people and who built a career out of often not just obama but finding ways to degrade and diminish african-americans and african-american leaders, i don't care what's in their hearts, to be honest with you, they can tell themselves their not racist, i don't care. it's racist to consistently make your living on the backs of black people. you brought up 400 years and let's consider this an intellectual show where we can talk history. i truly believe this assault on obama is linked to what you referred to earlier with his health care numbers dropping. i will tell you why. in the 230-year history of this country, the reason we have never developed a social democratic base, the way they have in europe, we're the only western country without some kind of universal health care. there's a reason.

it is because corporate interests have divided the american people by race and ethnicity. the irish from the blacks, it goes back to the 1700s. it's been very smart. it's been very effective. and people have voted against their self-interests to keep some other group down and therefore, we don't have the basic things that other countries take for granted in terms of a social infrastructure. that's what they're doing again. they want to defeat health care and his agenda by dividing us on racial lines. i don't think it's going to work. i really don't. >> do you believe this grand theory, congressman, that joan just put out there that there's some grand sort of almost marxist analysis. >> i'm not a marxist. >> an economic analysis of human behavior, yeah, it is an analysis of human behavior. i think we have tribalalist tendencies. i don't think the corporate world created those is tribalalist tendencies. >> i'm not a conspiracy theorist

but i don't think humpty-dumpty just fell. i think he was pushed. there are people deliberate pushing buttons to try to hold back the progress that people are making in this country as one nation. and when you push those buttons as mr. beck did and so many others, it causes the progress to slow down. as i said before, this is anti-american and most of all insulting to the democracy people workday in and day out to preserve. >> let's listen to a couple bites again if we can run them now so people know what he said. we're not getting beyond glen beck and his thinking here, if you will. here he is. >> you can't sit in a pew with jeremiah wright for 20 years and not hear some of that stuff and not have it wash over. what kind of president of the united states immediately jumps on the police just like what kind of president would ever say, oh, well, yeah, well, he's black, of course he was breaking into the house. you'd never do that. you'd never do that. he wanted to address this. now, now they're going to have a

beer? that's obscene. >> well, that's the thought. he's obviously embellishing this, congressman getting into this is some sort of the use of the word racist. racist in common parlance means you don't like the other race. if you're black, you don't like white. it means a sense of racial superiority. one race should dominate the other, historically whites dominating blacks. what do you think he means by this idea that barack obama is a racist, that blacks should rule the world and whites subservient? or that blacks -- he just doesn't like black people. what meaning can you ascribe to this fellow this broadcaster? >> aside from the fact that he's laughable, he's also just a great big problem in the terms of the road of progress. you know, chris, i was born at night. i wasn't born last night. i served on the under rond reagan, george bush, bill clinton. every president says thing in the heat of the moment that they back off from. that's normal, going to always

happen but for him to take this and to play it in such a way to suggest, well, you know, you've got to watch out because these black people are getting ready to take over, that is offensive. >> let me ask you, joan about, this question of the birthers. you and i have talked about it before. i have thought there's an attempt by some people, not the republican party per se but people on the far right who have tried to delegitimize our election and can't live with the fact that barack obama won so they're trying to say basically he wasn't a legitimate american, therefore it wasn't a legitimate election. this guy needs to be picked up and taken out by ins, basically if you follow their logic, to the extent that it exists, he ought to be picked up because he doesn't have a green card. >> lou dobbs came very close to that. >> if you listen to them as if they were logical, this is what they're say. is this of a piece, to deamericanize the guy. >> i think it's related. it's all an attempt to

dehumanize him and delegitimize him in a deep way. it does go back. you led the segment by talking about sarah palin, he's palling around with terrorists. it goes back to the palin campaign. i will not say the mccain campaign because john mccain did come out and tell people he's not a muslim, he's a good american family man and i value that moment because it's been way too rare in the last six to eight months. we need more of it. we're not hearing enough of it from republicans. michael steele finally today, michael steele did say i believe the president is a citizen and he's a legitimate president and i want these people to stop. but it's just been far too slow in coming. >> it's getting worse. lindsey graham is taking heat from the south from some of the right for daring to vote for supreme court nominee of the other party. it's unbelievable. congressman, thanks you very much for joining us. >> it's being taken over by the supremacists. the moderate republicans need to say thing. >> well, let's wait and see if they do it, if there are any

left. sir, thanks for joining us. joan walsh of salon, thank you. a brand-new nbc news "wall street journal" poll to share with you with tough numbers for president obama and very tough numbers for his health care plan coming up on "hardball." ♪ ooh, yeah wiggle your day with jell-o sugar-free gelatin. ♪ ooh, yeah it's 10 tasty calories... loved by lips and hips alike. ♪ shake it, shake it, ooh, yeah ♪ jell-o. because every diet needs a little wiggle room.

you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500. more like a 900 v-twin. excuse me. well, you're excused. the right insurance for your ride.

w, that's progressive. ll or click today. i hate my phone. what do i do? ( shouting ) this is crazy. you. let's run a free upgrade check. see if you're due for a new smartphone. don't i need to go to my carrier's store for that? no, you don't have to. we sell phones and plans on all the major networks. ok. well, is time travel possible? yes, i am from the future. announcer: phones, plans, and advice

welcome back to "hardball." president obama hit the trail again today to sell his health care plan. a new nbc news poll finds a rocky road awaits him as he tries to carry his plan across the finish line. chuck todd's weave white house correspondent and political director and charlie cook is the editor and publisher of the cook

political report. two heavyweights here. let's analyze the problem facing the president. more people disapprove than approve on the issue of health care. he's got more people fighting him right now. the fight is between those who have insurance and those who don't. 41% like what he's doing. 3% don't like what he's doing. relatively high% and of the noninsured people backing him. that makes sense. >> the key thing is almost 60%, i think it's 59% have private insurance. so that's where the big numbers are. and that's why that gap is so important. this campaign atmosphere that we've seen the last three weeks with the president out there every single day talking about health care, it has hurt him. it has hurt his party. he's still hanging in. there look, 53%, still a majority. that's enough to win an election. which he did. >> but -- >> let's take a look. let's go down. we're going there. to follow your logic there. on the economy, he's now below the water line. he's below 49%. and take a look and go ahead as well. 49% on the economy.

look at health care. down to -- well, health care is even lower. people das prove more than they approve. >> that's right. it's upside down. >> that health care number driving the overall job approval down? >> it's hard to sit there and not say that. because this is all he's been talking about the last three weeks. what i've also found interesting in this, i'm glad we're presenting health care and the economy together, is the more he's talked about health care, the more, frankly whether -- i don't know if it's people are conditi confused or more skeptical, but as we've seen a sort of reaction with, hey, by the way, the economy still stinks, guys. we still feel like the worst isn't over. and the numbers of people saying jobs and the economy are the most important issue have gone up. and yet, spent the last -- it's almost as if the people don't say this. but the impression they're leaving is, okay, while you're talking about health care, can you get back to getting me a job? we talked to one -- i

interviewed one person who said just that. i don't need any more government health. i need help finding a job. >> well, it gets worse. more people think that obama's signaturish rues a bad idea. you're talking about the economy. look at the stimulus bill. that's less popular than it is unpopular. that has 43% saying the stimulus bill which was passed earlier this year is a bad idea. only 34, only a third of the people think it's a good idea. on health care, roughly the same, 36% say positive. 42% say don't. so they don't even like his economic initiative which is the stimulus package. >> right. let me turn this on its head. our republican half of this polling team, remember, we have that bipartisan polling team. bill says, hey this means the conventional wisdom about the republicans being the part of no and it issing there and just trying to say just be against the president, oh, that's a bad strategy. be careful of that strategy. guess what? their message is getting through. the talking points. look, they beat this thing up for three months. it's getting through.

on health care, they're talking points, we saw it the other day at that aarp town hall. the callers were reading almost as if they had the republican talking points on health care verbatim. in the message war, the great communicator that is supposed to be president obama is losing to congressional republicans. >> okay. there seems to be pox on both of their mentality. a majority of the country blames both parties for the bipartisanship in washington. look at those numbers. roughly the same blame the two parties. 22% blame the rs, 18% blame the ds. three out of five people blame both parties. >> this is an important number for a couple reasons. number one this anger -- you know, i've been looking at what is going on in the california bunt crisis and in pennsylvania and that stalemate that they have on the budget. the party zisanship taking placn albany. there are little prairie fires all over. what is going to happen to this angry voter that sits there and says what's going on? can't you guys solve any

problems? imagine the reaction. democrats don't get a health care bill, they have control of everything. covering and the presidency. and this idea of if they can't get it together and get that done, is that the spark that takes what's happened with california's budget crisis with new york's budget crisis, with pennsylvania and everybody saying, wait a minute, our entire -- all of our politicians are failing us whether they're republican or democrat. so that is a warning number out there, i think, for a lot of elected officials. look at that and say, boy, we better be careful. remember the ross perot angry voter. they can pop-up. >> to make your point, here's the latest numbers. the famous term, the generic vote. >> which party would you like to see run congress the next time around? the republicans are still below 40 but they're catching up. the democrats are down to 46. that's the closest it's been now since april of 2006. so this is as close a competitive edge or disedge the republicans have suffered here. does this mean that arlen specter joined the wrong political party? >> that's an interesting way to

put it. but let's take this poll and remember, right now, this is a referendum on the democrats and on president obama. that's how i would view this poll. there hasn't been a democratic campaign against the republicans. the republicans are benefit big default. the problem they have, their image is still negative. they still don't have anybody that's seen as a leader inside their own party that everybody is gravitating to. right now, this problem inside the democratic party is not good. obama is above 50 but barely. >> are you suggesting -- i know you can't project it, or diagnose. you can diagnose but you can't prescribe. do you think barack obama would have been better to spend the last several months instead of talking about health care, talk about the economic problem he inherited. the growing unemployment, the problems of deflating the economy, all this horrible worldwide stuff going on was basically out there when he came into office. if le had been saying that for six months would he be taking less heat now?

>> i don't know if he wants to do that, but this poll was a two by four to my head of a reminder, guess what, voters react to their pocketbooks and that's why the health care debate -- people don't understand the plan and they're like what is it going to be? are you going to change my doctor and all this stuff. by the way, i don't have a job. remember, we talked about this in the summer of '08 when we would sit there and say how come neither obama and mccain are talking about jobs, jobs, jobs? >> back in '91, a guy who was not much of a politician defeated a heavyweight in pennsylvania, richard thornburg for the senate seat by saying people needed health care. if a criminal has a right to a lawyer, the working family has a right to a doctor. people said it at the time that people who were worried about losing their jobs were afraid they would be stuck without health care.

that was the way to sell health care in the old days. why doesn't obama say it this way. the way to say health care is this is something you'll lose if you don't get protected. norsds, tie it into the in other words, tie it into the employment situation. >> i think he has tried that. it hasn't worked. now they changed to this idea of saying hey, this is turn into health insurance reform. he found a bad guy. not a bad guy in the republican party, but the same way everybody got angry at wall street over the economy, you can always get a bipartisan agreement that insurance companies are boogie men and boogie women. they're heartless and make decisions about what medical care you can get. they've decided politically they're going to have to make the insurance companies the face of the problem now and it's the only way to get some form of reform out of congress and on his desk by october 15 and have something signed. >> he does have a bad guy out

there, his name is glenn beck. thanks for joining us. colin powell hits back against rush limbaugh and republicans who are too afraid to stand up to rush-bo. they're all ditto heads. that's next in the "sideshow." undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather. (announcer) switch to the nation's fastest 3g network and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free.

it can lift your mood, help rebuild muscle... and improve your concentration. tylenol pm works with your body to ease the aches and pains that keep you awake, and helps you fall asleep in a non-habit forming way. because the better you sleep, the better you feel.

back to "hardball" time for the "side show." first up, the feud rages on. last night general colin powell took on the entertainer in chief, rush limbaugh and the dittoheads who think that every minute of rush-bo amounts to a teachable moment. every criticism is a round of revenge or public debasing attrition. >> the problem i'm having with the republican party right now is when he says things that i

consider to be completely outrageous. and i respond to it. i would like to see other members of the party do likewise. but they don't. >> they're afraid to take him on? >> i know a number of instances where sitting members in congress or elsewhere in positions of responsibility in the party made light criticism of rush and within 24 hours they were backing away because there is -- >> why? >> there is a strong base of support for mr. limbaugh. >> i think there's three parties out there right now, the democrats largely loyal to president obama and the clintons, republicans looking for leadership right now and the hating tribalists living in nightly fear of the black helicopters arriving tomorrow morning dispatched by celebrity left wing commisars from new york, washington and hollywood coming to take away, well, first their guns and then their families. that's the third party out there and glenn beck is talking to them. next up, a reckoning on the "new york times" opinion pages.

columnist maureen dowd has been known for tough criticism of hillary clinton. here is speaking today in our quote. maureen who's a master of the pen has shifted her sharp literary focus to the more topical ex-governor of alaska. look out, sarah. and finally, goodbye ratso rizzo. the "new york times" reports that new york mayor mike bloomberg's administration has been trying to save money on shelters by buying the homeless one-way tickets to place where is they've got relatives willing to take them in. the city spends half a million dollars a year now on a program which sends people mostly back to georgia, the carolinas, and other points south. i guess if you can't make it in new york, it's time to get on

the bus, gus. anyway, time now for tonight's "big number." republican congressman jeff flack of arizona, who was a guest on the show yesterday, wants to slow the progress of a $600 billion plus defense appropriations bill which he says is loaded down with wasteful earmarks and no bid contracts. how is he doing it? by filing amendments one after the other. how many is he filing? a record 553 amendments. according to the politico newspaper, if the house actually votes ends up voting on all of those amendments, it would mean roll call votes for 50 hours straight. congressman flake's making a stand with 553 amendments to that big spending appropriations bill. tonight's big number. up next, the republican party has been shrinking the last few election cycles and now republican senator george voinovich of ohio thinks he knows why. he says there's too many southerners aboard. are southerners driving the gop south? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

west price, some pharmacies make you work for it with memberships and fees. but not walmart. they have hundreds of generic prescriptions for just $4 for up to a 30-day supply and no gimmicks. save money. live better. walmart. a day on the days that you have arthritis pain, you could end up taking 4 times the number... of pills compared to aleve. choose aleve and you could start taking fewer pills. just 2 aleve have the strength... to relieve arthris pain all day. ♪ change it up a bit... and you're sure to get a reaction. [ motorcycle engine growl ] ♪ don't let erectile dysfunction slow things down. ♪ viva viagra! viagra, america's most prescribed ed treatment, can help you enjoy a more satisfying sexual experience. to learn more, cruise on over to viagra.com.

ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. don't take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain... as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects may include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help... for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away... if you experience a sudden decrease in vision or hearing. ♪ viva ♪ viva now's the time to get moving... ♪ viagra! and ask your doctor viagra is right for you. capturing the beauty of nature. that's my vision. every day, transitions lenses are there to help care for my sight. announcer: transitions lenses adjust to changing light to reduce glare and help protect your eyes from uv damage so you can see better today... and tomorrow. live your vision. transitions. healthy sight in every light. learn how transitions lenses can help protect your family's eyesight, go to our website or stop by a sam's club optical near you.

i'm kristina brown. here's what's happened. police recovered an 8-month-old baby cut from its murder's mother's womb and the woman suspected of carrying out the gruesome crime. for now the suspect is charged with being a fugitive from justice. the baby is hospitalized and in good condition. a federal grand jury has indicted the man accused of shooting and killing a security guard at the holocaust museum in washington. james von brunn faces seven charges including first-degree murder. secretary of defense roberts gates says some u.s. could be coming home from iraq ahead of schedule. after visiting with military commanders there, gates says the

current security situation is better than expected. the national weather service had a record high temperature for the city of seattle. the emerald city hit 103 degrees just after 4:00 local time wednesday afternoon. now back to "hardball." this is going to be trouble. if we haven't had enough trouble with glen beck tonight, recent comments by republican senator george voinovich has gotten some other republicans mad. he told "the columbus dispatch," his hometown dispatch, we've got too many jim demints, the conservative guy from south carolina and tom coburns from oklahoma. it's the southerners, people hear them and say these people, they're southerners. the party's being taken over by southerners. what the hell they got to do with ohio? joining me tom davis, republican

from virginia which is somewhere on the border. southern border, it's a southern state. what do you make of this? has your party become the party of ex-democrats who quit the democratic party because of civil rights back if the '60s? they're all dixiecrats now calling themselves republicans? is that killing your party? trent lott was like that. >> a lot of them are northerners who move south in migration for the new economy, as well. felt comfortable, right to work states. >> jim demint, lindsey graham move south? >> lindsay didn't. but a lot of our members are northerners, tom price from georgia. >> richard shelby is an ex-democrat. he's classic. >> it's a coalition. you know what southern politics is about. >> i'm looking at the party. you've had 19 members of the united states senate who are republicans in the last couple elections quit. that's half the number of senators there now. you've got 40 republicans. almost half have just quit there's no future except for

specter who just got in the lifeboat, right? he got in the lifeboat with the titanic. in new england, there's no republican congress people left. >> not in the house. >> not in the house. in the senate, the house in new york, there's like two left. one's leaving to become secretary of the navy. >> we'll hold that seat i think. >> it seems like the whole northeast where i grew up, there was always a republican senator in every state at least. two in pennsylvania for years, new jersey had a republican senator. new york had two republican senators when i was a kid. what happened to your party in the north? >> politics has been defined by culture and we've become a rural party and a southern party. we've been losing inner suburbs and the like. a lot of this was the policies of the bush administration. there are 18 states we've lost now five straight presidential elections. mccain wasn't within ten points. 34-2 is the senate lineup in those states. >> what do you think the problem was when i polled the people at first presidential debate last year at the reagan library. we asked them a simple question. do you believe in evolution? i think three guys said yes. i mean, you had -- they don't believe in sort of the natural biology courses we all took in high school. you have a party that doesn't

believe what they were taught in high school. >> it's changed so that people, the high education areas obama carried, 78 of the 100 counties with the highest education, mccain carried 88 of 100 counties with the lowest education. as we move the cultural politics, that's been the shift. >> is that the smart move for the republican party? >> it's a terrible move. >> to pick up the dixiecrats when they quit the democrats over civil rights? >> it's also rural versus urban in the northeast and midwest and everything else. it's going to change. part of that is the cost of government. >> guys like tony perkins are dancing on your graves. the far right guys, limbaugh, they love this thing. >> they don't think we've gone far enough to the right. >> they love it. they want a small republican party they can dominate. glenn beck's not upset.

>> they want a private club with an admissions test, they don't want a party which is by definition coalition. >> would they rather lose? >> demint said he would rather be 30 true believers than the broad coalitions that make a majority. the democrats have let so many moderates in, they're having trouble passing bills even with big majorities. that's where the country is. that reflects the electorate. but it's going to change a bit. >> would lincoln join today's republican party? >> i think he would. >> what would he like about the republican party. >> i think he would like our economics. i don't think he would like socialized medicine. >> okay. you're back to your party roots. that didn't take long. >> i'm an economic conservative. >> let me ask you about the party's future. it seems to me you've got a choice between sarah palin and mitt romney, just to be cartoonish about it. you have the person who's a full mooner. very attractive politically. she knows how to give a speech which most people don't in america. she draws a crowd. then you have mitt romney who's dull who doesn't seem to know

that he's a politician. he doesn't seem to know how to be a politician. who wins? >> i think you'll see maybe a john kasick emerge. >> if he wins in ohio. i think the midterm will bring in a new breed of republican out there that can appeal, will hold the base. >> can you win with a party where charlie crist wins in florida, tom coburn wins in pennsylvania, christie wins in new jersey, mcdonald wins? virginia? is that the basis for a national political party, a bunch of governors? >> i think it's going to be. i think we'll pick up in the house as well because the midterms are a referendum on obama. the voters will want to put a check on him. >> you're saying abraham lincoln where he brought back to life today would not join the party of obama but the party of mitch mcconnell? are you serious? >> i am serious. >> can i put you under oath right now. >> and tom davis and john warner. we can go on and on. absolutely he would be a

republican. he's a fierce independent. >> how about teddy roosevelt, a conservationist? >> he's a new yorker. i can't comment on that. >> thank you, sir it tom davis. a virginian. up next, talk about scare tactics, the latest right wing strategy to defeat health care telling old people the government's going to get them, go to their house and ask them how they want to die. we'll get to that. it gets worse in the "politics fix."

the politics of personal destruction from glen beck to the birthers. will republicans pay a political price for the right wing smear jobs? we'll be back to talk about the president and his enemies. i never thought i would have a heart attack, but i did. you need to talk to your doctor about aspirin. you need to be your own advocate. be sure to talk to your n an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yourself.

whether you consider it a cruiser or a clunker, ou could turn it into cash. get to your dodge, chrysler, and jeep dealer, and get up to double the government's cash for your old car. now get up to $4,500 for your old car... plus, up to an additional $4,500 cash allowance. no turn-in? no problem. your dodge, chrysler, and jeep dealer guarantees everyone up to $4,500 cash allowance... on virtually every model. get to your dodge, chrysler and jeep dealer on the double, and get double cash for your old car!

we're back now with the politics fix with the "washington post" lois romano and the politico's jonathan martin. let's take a look at the president, here he was talking about the health care plan after being asked a question by a wary caller at an aarp meeting today. >> i have been told there is a clause in there that everyone that's medicare age will be visited and told to decide how they wish to die. this bothers me greatly and i'd like for you to promise me that this is not in this bill. >> you know, the -- i guarantee you first of all, we just don't have enough government workers to send to talk to everybody. to find out how they want to die. i think that the only thing that may have been proposed in some

of the bills and i actually think this is a good thing, is that it makes it easier for people to fill out a living will. >> well, here's north carolina congresswoman virginia foxx speaking on the house floor. >> republicans have a better solution that won't put the government in charge of people's health care that will make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all americans and that ensures affordable access for all americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government. >> that's how hot it's getting. lois romano, jonathan martin, your thoughts about this debate. it's a provision in the energy and commerce version of the health care bill in the energy and commerce bill. it was put in by earl blumenauer from oregon. there it stands. it's a provision that allows you to get counseling every five years or so.

i wonder what the hell this provision is doing in a bill aimed at people who are younger? it's not about medicare an recipients. why we would want to be visited every five years by somebody to talk about how you want to die. i think it's crazy this is in there. your thoughts? >> it's not in there. >> it's in the bill. it's in the dingell bill. >> chris, first of all, it's an extension of a 1999 bill enacted during the bush bill and it's a self-determination, a patients rights bill. all it really says is that medicare will pay if somebody wants to go in and have a consultation. it doesn't say you have to have a consultation. >> it's not about medicare, lois. we already have that in medicare. this is about people under 65, younger people. this is not about medicare. we've got it in -- you're saying that. this is about a health care bill to help people in their middle and younger years. why would you have this conversation with them? >> i think it's basically to

give patients some rights. they want to go in and have a conversation. it's about a living will, as obama said. it's about making choices, about being prepared. i think most people would opt to use it if they were will. i don't think you and i would go in and say can we talk how i'm going to die in 20 years if something happens? you're talking about a person say they're 45 and they're dying and they just want to go and have a consultation. >> this is on a regular recurring basis. >> it's not mandated. >> it's not mandated. what's it doing in there? i have a sense this was put in by a lobbyist who wanted this for hospice care. somebody put this in there. it's the social policy dynamite that sounds like denmark or scandinavia that drives a lot of moderates or conservatives crazy. your thoughts, jonathan? >> and chris, that's exactly why you see somebody like foxx from carolina, a very conservative member bringing this up on the house floor

house floor because it does offer political fodder. if you're a republican you're trying to do anything you can to torpedo this bill. you go into this bill and you find any element that you can take out and extract and try and use that to hurt the larger bill. that's why you heard that on the house floor and why the president has folks calling into his aarp call-in show bringing this issue up because the republicans are trying to find something to kill this larger bill. that sounds pretty damn scary. >> the concern i have is that something that can be handled by filling out a form that somebody can handle for a miniscule amount of money and this is a trillion dollar bill here and somebody put in a provision which is a nice, useful handle for somebody that says we've got social policy here and the lefties can't wait for us to start telling old people, well, it's going to cost a lot of money for you to live so maybe you ought to be doing this other thing here. >> i just don't see it that way. everything that i read about it, it's a provision that asks hospitals to raise the question of living wills, which i don't have but a lot of people have one, and just say, do you want to do this? if you're coming into this

hospital do you want a living will? you make a very good point. even, it's even more benign if it's not for the elderly. it's just to be able to inform patients they have some rights. if they want to do a do not resuscitate. i just don't think there is that big a deal about it. >> we'll come back on this. i think it's like the abortion issue jammed into this thing. we have a hyde amendment, lois, that says the government will not pay for abortion. people were talking about putting that into the bill here. pro choice people that want the government to pay for abortions. there is a lot of social policy being jammed at us on what is essentially a financing issue. >> this is not a social policy. this is just telling a patient what options they have like a patient's living will. >> sure. why is it in this bill? >> well, why not? >> well, we're talking about it. thank you. we'll stay with this. we'll talk about glenn beck, a simpler topic, when we come back with "hardball" only on msnbc.

for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever. i had a great time. me too. you know, i just got out of a bad relatio... it's okay. thanks. goodnight. goodnight. (door crashes in, alarm sounds) get out! (phone rings) hello? this is rick with broadview security. is everything all right? no, my ex-boyfriend just kicked in the front door. i'm sending help right now. thank you. (announcer) brink's home security is now broadview security.

call now to install the standard system for just $99. the proven technology of a broadview security system delivers rapid response from highly-trained professionals, 24 hours a day. call now to get the $99 instlation, plus a second keypad installed free. and, you could save up to 20% on your homeowner's insurance. call now-- and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. you all want to run your businesses more efficiently, so we've brought in a team of experts to help. one suggestion is to make your shipping more efficient with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. call or go online for a free supply and up to $160 in offers from authorized postage vendors. shipping's a hassle! weighing every box... actually, with flat rate boxes you don't need to wei anything under 70 pounds. if it fits, it ships for a low flat rate. ok, but i ship all over the country.

you can ship anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. ship international, too. yes, but i ship hundreds of things, in all sizes. great, because flat rate boxes come in four sizes. call now and we'll send a free supply, plus up $160 in offers. when you're ready to ship, we'll even pick them up for free, no matter how many you have. priority mail flat rate boxes only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship.

we're back with our guests. let's listen if you can stand it of glenn beck on fox yesterday morning. >> this president i think has

exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seeded hatred for white people or the white culture. i don't know what it is. >> well, he also called president obama racist. listen to this. >> i'm not saying that he doesn't like white people. i'm saying he has a problem. he has a -- this guy is i believe a racist. look at the way -- look at the things that he has been surrounded by. >> lois, what do you make of this character, glenn beck? he's rising high on the right wing side of things. >> okay. so i have a question for you. why are we talking about this guy? >> right. >> he went to the same school of hateful punditry as ann coulter did. he had keith ellison on his show and wanted to know if keith was a terrorist of some sort. he said he couldn't debunk rumors that facilities were going to be used as concentration camps. the guy is bordering on being a nut.

>> more people listen to him than read "the washington post." that's why we're listening to him oh, well. >> the fact is that voice is being heard and some people believe it. i assume people who listen on a regular basis mostly do believe him and are willing to listen to what he has to say because they think it has some value. >> and the more provocative he is, then the more attention he's going to get and we'll talk about it and it'll be picked up online and therefore the more viewers he gets. it's like the coulter strategy as well. the more provocative they are the more attention they get. >> what did you make, lois, of the fact that the fox news network, one of their top executives made a point the other day of coming right out and saying he does not speak for us? this may be a first. he says don't count on us to back up this guy's point of view. >> well, because they know they're dealing with a very popular president and a very hot issue. i mean, we've just come off of two weeks of an intensely hotly debated racial issue with skip gates and the arrest and so fox doesn't want to be caught on the wrong side of a raciss