breakfast. it's kind of early, buddy. you've got to need to take some cholesterol off you.

honey, have you been reading the cheerios box again? he got that off the box. (announcer) cheerios is made with 100% natural whole grain oats to help lower your cholesterol. that was very thoughtful of you. very early, but very thoughtful. (announcer) cheerios. good for the heart.

wow. that was -- that's harsh. you bring nothing to the table. that's what they usually say to me. i'm sorry, but -- >> actor. >> it was. >> i mean, anything, television revolutionary? we're going to have a beer tonight, right? >> yeah. >> me, you and harold? >> the three of us. >> great. senator -- >> what do you want? >> lou dodd, democrat, representative national hill and new york magazine joe haggan, chuck todd, lawrence o'donnell

and the new cove of "time" magazine joe scarborough will be here. and i'm supposed to say "morning joe" starts now, but it reminds me when i was in hartford and be like, channel 3 starts right now. >> that's amazing. ♪ everybody's talking at me no one is stalking about a government takeover in the health care plan. as why was driving up, i saw some signs. you know. folks were all riled up. you know, they're listening to certain radio programs. they're watching certain cable shows. somehow i guess they think we're just going to stake over health care. >> yeah. all right. >> i don't wear the same thing every day. >> yeah, you kind of do. >> why -- i have an array of

suits. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> it's all right. >> no. i get it from a lot of people. >> you're wearing white ankle socks, under armour sneakers? >> yes, i am. >> mike barnacle, favorite. the professor, i'm apparently -- i've been criticized, harold, for saying professor. in a breathy way. i won't do it anymore. >> i like it. >> all right. and willie geist. good job. "way too early." joe scarborough on his way. and we've got a lot to talk about. you guys want to get together for a beer tonight? >> the three of us are getting together for a beer tonight. >> celebrate way too early. have a beer. shooter? no. barnacle? >> we're going to have a keg

party. >> all right. we'll talk about that. really, at this point what can they accomplish, and this is just a distraction. a lot of other news as well that we really need to cover, and interesting new polls out that willie will bring to the table. we'll get to that. first a quick look at some of today's top story. >> despite a furious push from the white house, public report for health care, health care reform, the bill appears to be losing ground. according to nbc news and the "wall street journal," 42% say the president's proposal is a bad idea. that is a ten-point jump from last month. the most americans, it's not the top priority. the issue ranks third behind the economy and concerns over the deficit and spending. meantime, the president joins a 53% approval rating, down three points from april. and slipping nor. the white house is suggesting a compromise between house leaders and blue dog democrats.

changing the government insurance option and pushes back any vote until after the august break. speaking in north carolina, the president brushed off the timetable and took on his critics. >> nobody is talking about some government takeover of health care. i -- i'm tired of hearing that. under the reform i propose, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. these folks need to stop scaring everybody. >> you know, look at the poll again about the priority here for health care. people aren't seeing it. >> the bill became -- the presidential proposal, first of all, he never made a concrete proposal, obviously, over the next several week, really it's a congressional proposal. not a health bill. it became a tax bill. a bill where you would lose your own health care. unfortunately for the president, he's largely right, this bill will expand kov reege and over

the long run lower costs. right now they're losing that debate. losing that debate. >> one of the issues is, the president is out there selling an idea. an idea that has been around 34 years. maybe 50. he's not selling a specific program, and he is now bumped into, as a result of the opposition to this program, he bumped into the doubts that's resolve around a question asked perhaps more than any other question in american households. at some point during the day, one spouse turns to the other and said, can eafford this? and that's his problem. >> more people are asking that question today. >> another problem, which you showed on the polling. the number one concern is jobs. >> absolutely. >> if that issue is not addressed first in a serious way, it's hard to get to the other issue. >> i completely agree. we'll dress that with our guests. meanwhile today the president is set to meet with the massachusetts police officer and the harvard scholar at the center of that recent debate.

planning to cool off over a cold one. bud light for the president, red stripe for professor and blue moon for the sergeant. it comes as the cambridge woman, this really -- this is bad. did you see this press conference? >> i saw clips of it. >> ah. the cambridge woman who called 911 in that call triggered the incident spoke out for the first time. take a listen. >> the criticism at first was so painful for me, it was difficult. i was frankly afraid to say anything. people quelled me racist and said i caused all the turmoil that followed, and some even said threatening things that made me fear for my safety. >> you know, this was the story that didn't get covered whenever everyone was trying to assume they knew what happened. so i -- this woman just calling, trying to help, and her life has been turned upside down.

>> it was covered, but when covered, people said, blamed it on her. two black guys breaking in, it turns out she didn't say that. >> what we do in an industry. we consume people like that, caught in the spotlight. people unused to deeg on tv, we consume them, devour them, spit them out and move on to the next story. i would bet that there's a substantial number of people in this country who watched that bres conference yesterday, think about that woman, the last thing they're going to do, pick up a phone and call 911, because -- when you call 911, you're supposed to be -- a certain amount of anonymity goes into that call. >> got a lawyer. she's not anonymous anymore. talk about reflection. it starts with us. seriously. it starts with us and what we do. >> anyone sees me breaking in saying barnacle is safe, give me a call. they say willie and i are breaking into barnacle's -- >> breaking into my estate.

they'll get shot. >> oh, god. great. here we go again. niphow, we'll talk about this more um coming up. the justice department is reviewing a judge's rooming that calls for the release of a kuwaiti man held at guantanamo bay. he was arrested in pakistan back in 2001 accused of supporting al qaeda. defense attorneys say he was fund-raising for orphanages. two people in custody this morning accused killing a 23-year-old woman. oh. and taking a baby from her womb. >> this is the worcester, massachusetts story? >> the infant found alive yesterday and appears to be in good condition. the female suspect arrested with an unidentified man after friends suspected she was lying about giving birth. a new study shows organic food is no healthier than conventional products. according to a review, there is no difference in level of nutrients including vitamin c, iron and calcium.

same goes for meat and eggs. >> what does that mean to you? >> means i've been spending a lot of money on organic -- >> you've been brow beating us for months now. hammering us. >> the funny thing, an entire industry is built around this. >> there is. i'm angry. you know what? i am so mad. that's why -- the water thing. stupid people buying plastic bottles of water for $2, and now we're finding that organic food might be the same? >> let's order some quarter pounders. >> i give up. i never was into the water thing, have you know. but the organic food thing i fell for. all right. let's go order quarter pounders. >> relax. >> all right. speaking of people who do that, let's go bill cairns for the latest check on the forecast. bill? >> good morning. fortunately i've got to say i

got up serious this morning a tornado warning in the dallas-ft. worth area. waking a lot of people up early in the morning pup can see here. the tornado warning in red covering the fort worth area and suburb. right now they're saying possible tornadoes near crowley, blue mound or saginaw. by 5:15 by edge cliff. a look at that line of storms rolling through fort worth as i speak. next stop will be dallas and probably about a 15 to about 30 minutes from now. so if you're in the dallas-ft. worth area, stay inside until the line of storms patss. another half hour, 45 minutes, you'll be just fine. the northeast, our big storms were last night. they are clearing out. a warm day today. probably one of the warmest days of the summer. look at this shot. what a gorgeous shot through some of those low clouds there right along the riverfront. it's going to clear out as the day moves on and be hot. new york city, 89. hottest day of summer so far. a chance of showers and storms

isolated, not like yesterday. the rest of country, showers and storms from atlanta to orlando. chicago, you won't hit 90 for the first time in your city's history. minneapolis has 70. the big weather story yesterday, guys, was in seattle. they hit 103 degrees yesterday in seattle. >> oh, my gosh! that will never, ever happen again. >> gracious! >> don't say never. >> well -- >> that's hot coffee. >> that's hot. >> mika, can i chime in on the whole willie geist dress code thing? >> yes. he's been beat up -- >> how good he looks opinion notice -- you notice the difference, he wear as nice tie. if you don't wear a tie and you're a guy, it looks like you're wearing the same thing every day. the tie is what stands out. >> all right. >> you're upstairs. you've got to come down here and defend mere. >> willie's got good reviews on this show. you keep doing what you're doing. >> they took my tie away, sitting next to barnacle every

day. can't stand it. >> that, too. >> two really well-dressed guys. >> cairns looks like he's breaking someone in for them. >> he's a nice front man for sims. >> i can't wear barnacle's pants, tell you that. don't want to, either. we're getting ugly. getting personal. coming up in a few minutes we're try and clean up our act. the national urban league, marc morial what pe expects to come out of the white house, and also senator brown has serious concern what's might be left of the health care deal. chuck todd will dig deeper into the nbc news/"wall street journal" polls including the latest opinion poll of sarah palin and later, he won an oscar for "an inconvenient truth." film brecter davis guggenheim, warning it might get loud. loud in here? like it hasn't before. plus a look at story "political"

is working on. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. mom vo: i can't start the first grade with her.

mom vo: i can't hold her hand on the bus. mom vo: or be there to show everyone how great she is. mom vo: but what i can do is give her everything she needs to be excited for school, while staying in my budget. mom: that's why i go to walmart. mom vo: she has everything she needs. and then some. anncr vo: get them everything they need to succeed at an unbeatable walmart price. vo: back to school costs less at walmart. vo: save money. live better. walmart. has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster.

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at the white house tomorrow. yeah. come on, buddy. professor henry louis gates jr. will be there and sergeant james crowell think. coming over for beer. it's going to be a crazy night. going to be karaoke with tim

geithner. and that's a crazy guy. right here on our stage. that's a crazy guy. i believe it's the first white house kegger really since the bush twins lived there. >> that's all right. all right. >> i liked it. geithner karaoke. good stuff. here with us, executive editor of "politico" a look at morning playbook. >> good morning. how you doing today? >> doing great. i love this story about hypocrisy in politics. do you have any for me? >> yes, we do, willie. got a great one. an exclusive on our investigative reporter. a republican congressman a fierce critic of earmark. turns out not only did he use an earmark but used one to direct moneys to a company represented by one of his former aides. that company makes blimps. it has absolutely nothing to do with his district. the congressman says, while i'm doing this to create jobs in my district, turns out the company

has a p.o. box in his district but in fact is located about 1 now, miles away in chicago. 1,000 miles away. he's got explaining to do makes blimps? put it all on the line for blimps? >> technology to improve efficiency of blimps. the company getting the money, no experience in federal contracting and no experience in blimp making. >> wow. amazing. let's get to the health care debate. a lot of talk today on the front page of all the newspapers about the blue dog democrats cutting a deal. but a lot of people not happy with henry waxman and nancy pelosi within their own party. tell us about that. >> right. it's a hard thing being a leader, because you finally placate the conservative and moderate democrats and guess who'd ticked off now? liberal democrat whose think leadership is starting to sell them out on their core principles. especially public options. barney frank and other liberal voices said they'll not support the deal are unhappy with leadership and could see a big

block of liberals actually voting against pelosi and obama if they continue to cave in and give into the demands of moderate conservative democrat. shows how darn hard it is to get everybody inside the same page. >> and let me ask you quickly, joe scarborough. do you think in the end, where we're doing, reading the tea leaves, looks like we're going tore a weak public option. that's where it will end up, a weak public option but strong consumer protection. they're going to be popular with 80% of americans? >> i think if you look at what is saleable to republicans and to moderate democrats and what liberal democrats can hold their nose and accept would be smk like you just outlined. not a robust package that has a robust public option that would be implemented right away. i think probably phased in, a lot of pilot program, stuff that happens four, five years from now. i think it's the only way to bring republicans onboard.

get max baucus in the senate, moderate conservatives in the house. >> jim, one our quick thing. do you sense the white house may be willing at some point, because the president's numbers may go under 50, if this trend continues in all this new polls, getting to a stage where we might start saying the t word, triangulation, barack obama decides to chart a middle course, push hard for consumer protection and basically say good-bye on this issue to those in the far left pulling his numbers down? >> he may have to. looking at my in box. every single news organization in america except for politico polled on health care overnot. "new york times," "wall street journal," "time" magazine, m e anpr" same thing. people are losing confidence in the president's plan, the ability of congress to get something done that won't hurt the insurance they already have, a very political white house. they undoubtedly have to react

to that. that he wanted this before they go home in august. they don't want concerned democrats out there criticizing obama and the democratic leadership plan. this might neutralize it, they think, give them a month to work things out and see if max baucus in the senate can come up with a plan that works for everyone. >> who was that guy who just jumped in the interview? >> i don't know. is that the new man in the street segment we're going to do? >> oh -- >> i don't know why you're insulting me. >> it's great. we're glad, joe scarborough. >> oh, it's joe! >> we love you. we're just glad you're here. >> as you know, willie, better than most, i spend a lot of time working with the disadvantaged youth of america. >> what are you laughing at? what you laugh at. >> go ahead. no. if you're going to mock, i'm just not going to continue. >> oh, joe.

>> all i can say, there are a lot of hungry kids in nantucket. a lot, their stomachs a bit more full last night. >> oh, it's good to have you back, joe. good to have you back. let's get back to jim. alarming study earlier this week about the impact obesity is having on the health care crisis. something like 9% of all health care costs are obesity related. what are the politics of this? putting a tax on foods that are bad for people. tell me about the politic behind this? >> ate of politics here. now considered the number one driver of the increase in health care costs because people are getting fatter faster than ever before. politicians don't want to deal with this for several reasons. one is, there is a politics of fat. a lot of heavy people happen to live in swing states. people don't want to offend their voters. different reasons why people tend to be obese. some because they eat bad and don't exercise. some genetics, some

geographical. lawmakers are wrestling whether to do anything about this. they've rejected the idea of taxes things that make people fat. they're certainly not going to tax you because you're fat. a big elephant in the room, if you will, because they don't want to deal with this huge driver. >> politics. >> appreciate it. reading you at politico.com today. a quick look at morning papers as we go to break. the "wall street journal" supports health plan. talking a lot about this. a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, 42% a bad idea. 36% say reform is a good idea. "new york times," lawmakers cut house bill's price tag. negotiators in house and senate move towards compromises on reform packages. "usa today," comes back fast. phelps sets record just a day after being beaten by some german guy. more ahead on sports. "the seattle times" tellsing about us that story bill cairns

brought us. 103 degrees, all-time high. also in "the washington post," a bill in the senate that requires states to write laws to prohibit text messaging by drivers or risk losing 25% of their federal highway money. i hope it happens. >> that story's picking up a lot of steam. >> absolutely. coming up, a first look at business live from london, also, must-read opinion pages, straight ahead on "morning joe." (announcer) some people don't just work.

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if there's one thing that this fat nation needs, it's a fat dating reality show. last night the fox network gave us that gift with the premiere of their new show "more to love." >> i'm freakin' awesome. i am so -- just let go of everything. never experienced that before. he actually held my hand and gave me his jacket. i have waited for a guy to just want to get to know me. >> every time that woman appeared on screen they gave her weight. 201 pounds. every time. as if it changed over the course of the episode. >> they actual dloi that. give the person's name and weight up. it's horrible. >> no thank you. let's get an early check on business. >> horrific. >> cnbc, live in london.

good morning, steve. >> and what's your weight? >> good morning. everyone worried about a blip in the market. the big industries down 0.3%. a second day in a row. today the markets have upped themselves off the new york market futures, and the european industry trading at levels we haven't seen since january of this year. real positive. a potential for coming up. jobless claims coming up in a short while. expecting another 570,000 jobs initially to be lost in the united states. plus we've got a whole host of companies reporting. colgate, palmolive, kellogg's, big ones reporting. the largest oil company, exxon mobile, and lower nubbles, beat expectations. managed to get themselves a ride. back to you. >> thanks so much, steve sedgwick. time for the news. and president obama is brushing off a delay in the timeline for health care reform,

even as a new poll suggests support for the overall is eroding. house lawmakers will vote on a compromise plan in september, although 42% of americans say the president's proposal is a bad idea. this morning's "washington post" is announcing the house sets to approve $17 million in military equipment. defense secretary robert gates says it's not needed. according to the report lawmakers are asking or behalf of political contradiibutors wh represent defense contractors. suing the wife of bernard madoff for $45 million to compensate victims of his massive fraud. according to the suit, ruth madoff received tens of millions in dollars in fraudulent transfers over a six-year period of time. coming up next, we've got the president of the national urban league marc morial will join us. also the must-read opinion

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i was a young college student driving from new york to washington. stop on a highway, and told to open the trunk of my car and the police officer told me pe wanted to search it for weapons. i remember as i got back in my car and continued on my journey how humiliated i felt. how angry i got. >> hmm. eric holder on the issue, and the mind set that you bring to the table, i guess in these incidents, although i don't think this professor was profiled but i guess it's a mind-set. >> you know, bottom line is, two

few in white america have a sense of what it is to be black in america. whether it's you, whether it's eric holder, whether it's some 17-year-old kid from washington heights in new york. you just -- we don't understand. >> true. with us now, president and ceo of the national urban league and former mayor of new orleans, marc morial. this week the national urban league. >> good morning. >> good morning. kicks off its annual pass to power conference. looking forward to hearing how that goes. marc, thanks for joining us. this big year of diplomacy scheduled for tonight, has everyone talking. i want to look at a poll. this is put together by nbc news and the "wall street journal." as sort of cooler heads prevail in terms of what happened there. who's to blame right now. this is the answer that people are giving. 27% say professor gates. 11% say sergeant crowley, but look at this. 29% say both at fault, and 31%, i think i would put myself in

that category, don't know. which i think is fair. let me read to you from "the washington post." stop the racial score settling. obama trying to make the case for universal health coverage. for the largest step towards greater associate justice since civil rights and medicare and took a single word stupidly to send everyone scurrying back to that infinite score settling. sergeant crowley should not have arrested gates and the police acknowledged by dropping charges but gates knows that this police officer with a good record is not the enemy. let's end the score settling right now. marc, is that what will happen tonight? >> you know, i think tonight is a dialogue that the president's going to convene and throughout this entire discussion, my hope is that people will understand better what happens when citizens interact with the police. i often wonder how we would look at this issue if both the police

officer and the professor were african-american or both the police officer and the professor a white or if the roles were reversed. we really don't know what we may think, but maybe what comes out of this is -- is that there's going to be some sort of face-to-face dialogue, and what i have learned over the years is that when police and communities dialogue in advance of incidents when they try to build relationships in advance of incidents, the community is better able to confront misunderstandings, incidents, or profiling when in fact they do happen. >> joe? >> yes, mr. morial, i have a fifth alternative to that nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, and i'm curious what you think. from the very beginning, i certainly have tried to understand where professor gates was coming from, and as willie geist and i said early on, if we were his age, had his life

experiences and somebody had been knocking on our door after we were exhausted coming back from a trip from asia i would probably yell at hip, too, and say, get the hell out of my house. but here's a fifth option. that neither of these men were in the wrong. professor gates was justified in his anger. officer crowley was just doing his job. and doesn't these men, in an unfortunate situation, that is now blown up and become a big political issue. what do you think of that? >> perhaps -- you know, joe, it's interesting, because i think, and i've said this. i think where the line was crossed, i don't think the person that made the complaint or the call to 911 was at fault. i don't think that the sergeant was at fault for responding to the call. i don't think that the sergeant was at fault for trying to determine the identity of the

professor. where it crossed the line is when the arrest took place. if it had just been a misunderstanding, a harsh word, harsh words, then maybe we wouldn't be here, and i think individual police officers, so powerful, the ability to arrest can be very jarring. professor gates is a distinguished scholar. now i see, when i look at him on television, i see a mug shot being portrayed. >> mr. morial, with all due respect, if my 21-year-old son goes back to the university of alabama and is pulled over by a police officer, white or black or hispanic, an officer asks him to step out of the car and he screams and yells at him and says, my mom won't step out of the car. i will guarantee you, i will be getting a call at 2:00 in the morning from my very white 21-year-old son saying, dad, i'm in jail.

i'm telling you, if anybody screams at a police officer the way professor gates did, they're probably going to jail. white or black. >> well, not necessarily, joe. i mean, the question is, should they go to jail? we make a living, so many of us, criticizing the government. the issue is, if this had been an automobile stop, this wasn't an automobile stop. this occurred in someone's home where the right to privacy and right to sanctity is indeed the greatest. in a car, there's an expectationance as you might be stopped and asked to step out of the car. >> i can give you the same example. if my son were screaming from his apartment, refusing to -- and i don't want to fight here, i'm just saying i understand professor gates' anger and i understand the profiling that eric holder was talking about. i understand where that anger and disgust comes from. i'm just saying, in this particular case, a white person

screaming and yelling at a police officer is going to end up in jail as well. and i can -- >> let me say this to you, joe, if that had occurred, if the professor were white and he was arrestedeneder the same circumstances, we might not be having a national discussion, but it would still not be a correct arrest. see, that's the absolute point. had it occurred to any american of any race it would not have been a correct arrest. so i mean, i don't think that -- maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion. maybe it wouldn't be this kind of flashpoint in this country. what i'm hoping is that people will learn from this. i respect police officers as a tough, demanding, difficult job. i learned that usually it's a very small segment of police officers that cause most of the complaints against the police, and maybe it is a moment in

terms of encouraging people that when there's a confrontation with a police officer, we ought to encourage cool heads on both sides. >> and -- i agree with you, and in fact i said in the beginning before i knew all the facts it might have been good for officer crowley to just step away and maybe still a might have been the right thing to do, but let me just say, though, i think we have a problem in this country if we allow citizens, black, white, hispanic, asian-american, you name it, to scream and yell at police officers when they ask them to do something. they're being insulted and yelled at. again, this is not about professor gates. you're just -- you've just made this a general issue. i don't want police officers trying to sort through domestic violence situations that could explode or other issues that could explode to have to sit there and take verbal insults. do you? >> but you know, joe, we in this country protect the right of

people to scream and yell at the government. it happens on talk radio. cable tv. and all over the nation each and every day. because it's a police officer may not make it different, and while we may not like it, it is very important that we protect the rights of people. we teach police officers. we train police officers professionally to deal with a citizen that might be upset that might be irate. most experienced police officers deal with that each and every day, and they're trained to exercise restraint. they're trained to protect themselves. that's the point. a police officer is not like you and me. they're trained. they're professional. they've been prepared for difficult situations, snap judgments. citizens who may, in fact, be upset, and maybe you and i aren't, but police officers are.

>> harold, hold on. let me read this and then i'll send it to you. our second must-read. "los angeles times." a series of stupidities by all three players escalated the minor innocent into the latest episode in a long-running drama. the clash of white government power as represented by a police officer, in this case represented by a distinguished professor. for the first type, however, that drama unfolded during the presidency of a black man. no one behaved perfectly. but today's beer gives all those involved the chance to reconsider. we'll drink to that. joe, take it away. >> the mayor may have exhausted the issue a bit. mayor, harold. good morning. what are the urban league conference what do you have on hand for ten days and for those watching from afar? >> thanks for asking. we'll be talking about the economy and jobs.

housing in the subprime crisis. talking about health care. we've got the vice president speaking to us on friday. we've got ken lewis of bank of america speaking to us today along with education secretary aaron duncan and talking about kids. a big focus of this conference is on helping the nation find solutions to deal with the problems we have today that are a deep and difficult recession. a collapse in the housing market. we're about solutions for urban communities, and that's what's going to be on the plate today, tomorrow and saturday. >> mayor, looks like the support for president obama's health plan is slipping. do you have any concerns or expressions for help for vice president biden? >> you know, there's been a concerted effort to oppose that plan, and i think that the more people understand it benefits, the stronger the support's going to be. 40 million uninsured is too

many. this is a great cause our time to try to provide health coverage to all americans and a healthier nation for all of us. >> mayor marc morial, stay with us. thank you very much. coming up we'll dig into the nbc news/"wall street journal" polls with chuck todd live from the white house. but first, after a surprising loss, michael phelps bounces back in a big way. next with sports. tools are uncomplicated?

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welcome back to "morning joe." a strange looking chopper shot. low hanging clouds over new york. time for sports. let's see. just checking the wires. a couple scores from around the big leagues. yankees 6, rays 2. a good one. then what else we got? the lowly a p 8, red sox 6. is that true? >> i love the red sox.

>> here's fred roggin with sports. >> thank you and good morning. the phillies acquired a former cy young pitcher. not roy halladay. cliff lee, the lefty with the indians. as of this moment, halladay is still a blue jay and didn't help his trade value. gave up three runs in the season high 11. mariners sunk the blue jays 3-2. halladay will be most likely dealt before the deadline. and hosting the pirates and randy winn scorched it. giants won 1-0. after the game the pirates told their second baseman freddy sanchez to stay in san francisco. three-time all-star traded to the giants for a pitching prospect. tigers, quite a game. struck out 13 and league leading 12th victory of the year. not too bad. led the game off with a homer. second inning hit another. tigers over the rangers 13-5. rays hosting the yanks, sixth

inning. took matt gars sa for a ride. put up the yanks 3-0. that's all the offense joba needed. yanks won 6-2. now won 11 of their last 13. football note, or off the field football note. former giant wide receiver plaxico burress spent three hours in front of a grand jury investigating weapons charge against him. he faces up to 3 1/2 years in prison. good news for michael phelps at the championships in rome. a day after the loss in the 200 meter freestyle got back on track setting a new world mark in the 200 meter butterfly. to go along with his 14 olympic gold medals. and 200 athletes from 15 countries are taking part in this year's dwarf world games in belfast. nine different events including running, swimming, badminton and hockey. basketball is not a sport recognized by the dwarf

committee. organizers of the event says the games give little people an opportunity to compete eye to eye with competitors. those athletes, truly giants in their sport. that's it for me. we'll talk to you tomorrow. >> thanks, fred. coming up next, the news you can use. bill shatner on monday night with oh conan" reading sarah palin. brought him back last night and it's better this time. we'll show you when we come back. nothing beats walmart's unbeatable prices...

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oh, is it time? >> it is. time for the news you can't use. yesterday we showed you william shatner on "tonight show" conan o'brien. here she monday night doing sarah palin's speech in the form of beat poetry. her farewell in fairbanks. a nice rendition. last night they brought him back. monday night was so good. this time shatner is reading actual excerpts from sarah palin's twitter feed. enjoy it. >> god most creatively displays his diversity in alaska. tourists from across america, here loving their 49th state, i'm reminded one heart, one hope, one definiteny, one flag from sea to sea.

awesome alaska night. sensing summer already winding down with fire weed near full bloom finally sitting down to pen listening to big and rich. >> wow. >> big and rich. >> very good. cowboy. >> very good. >> from her twitter feed? >> from her twitter. so that's from sarah palin's twitter page. >> okay. >> i have great video here for you. you like slow-speed chases? >> sure. >> love them! they're not dangerous, right? >> there's a great twist here. watch this. sheriff deputies in utah got a call about a white car driving erratically, weaving between lane, running stop signs. strange driving. in a moment you're about to find out why. >> a drunk driver? >> no, no. the car pulls into the driveway. look who gets outside. three, two, one -- a 7-year-old! a 7-year-old kid stole his old

man's car. >> bad boy. look at him running. >> nobody hurt. good news. stole his old man's car, he stole it because he didn't want to go to church on sunday. he wanted to go out for a drive. >> i want to see that again. >> sunday driver. cannot be prosecuted. too young. just got a little whipping from his daddy, i would guess. >> oh, my -- looks like opie! >> he didn't drive that -- nobody got hurt. >> the kid drives better than i do in a parking lot of a mall. >> here we go. >> that might explain the erratic behavior. >> activity between a man and horse? >> the deal on this story. you're going to hear about it later today at work. it will be online. >> are you sure? >> i wanted you to hear it from me. get it out in the open. i'm not even going frame this one. just read the lead of the ap story. dateline, columbia, south carolina pap south carolina man was clarpged with having sex way

horse. >> oh, my god. >> after the animal's owner caught the act on videotape, staked out the stain and caught him. >> i don't want to hear anymore. >> the interesting angle on this. here's the interesting angle. >> no. i don't want to know anymore. >> a repeat offender on our hands. this guy apparently just last year, same guy, pleaded guilty to having sex with the same horse, and he was placed on the state sex offender list. >> stop it, willie. stop it. >> hey, listen -- >> oh! stop it. just -- >> coming on to him? >> no. >> it's a love story. >> okay. >> american love story. >> all right. let's end it there. and, joe scarborough is in boston. take it away. >> i think i'm going back to the shelter. i'm offended by that. tie up the kids. waking up this morning. didn't see that story.

>> what's wrong with you? >> we have to deal with all the stories that come down. >> gets his own show and suddenly he's x-rated. >> i don't know what that was. >> i didn't do anything to the horse. i'm reading the story. don't look at me. >> please, joe, take it away. >> yeah. i have absolutely nothing to say. now back to you, mika. >> yeah. it is time -- mika, there are -- obviously, politico, seems like every news organization other than the onion put out a poll this morning. >> that's right. >> and there's a definite twin. three or four show the president 53%. approval rating more importantly i think, as we follow this health care debate, the president's upside down in the numbers on support for health care. his health care reform package, and, also, americans priorities, if you believe these polls, americans' priorities have shifted, and the numbers seem to

suggest that they think the federal government's fit and grown enough over the first six months of this year, they want the federal government, they want the president, they want congress, to start focusing on reducing the deficit. easier said than done in an economy that's turning downward, but, still, that's the new political reality in washington, d.c., and i would suspect not just for this month. >> dwrar. >> but for the foreseeable future. we'll get those poll, much more and not have anymore annal stim stories out of south carolina. and mika, i'll update, of course, all of you on the fine work i've been doing among america's -- all that and a lot more, but first, it's good to be back. here's mika with the news. coming up after the news, marc morial with us and michael will join the conversation along

with us, and willie. >> all right. >> time now for a look at some of the day's top stories. despite a serious push from the white house, new polling shows public support for health care reform appears to be losing ground. according to nbc news and the "wall street journal," 42% say the president's proposal is a bad idea. that's a ten-point jump from just last month. to most americans it's not the top priority. the issue ranks third behind the economy and concerns over the deficit and spending. meantime, the president enjoys a 53% approval rating that's down eight points from april. and flipping support, the white house is commending a compromise between house leaders and so-called blue dog democrats changing the terms of a government insurance option and pushes back any vote until after the august break. speaking in north carolina, the president brushed off the

timetable and took on his critics opinion. >> nobody is talking about some government takeover of health care. i -- i'm tired of hearing that. under the reform i propose, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. these folks need to stop scaring everybody. >> meanwhile today the president is set to meet with the massachusetts police officer and the harvard scholar at the center of that recent racial debate. they're planning to cool off over a cool one. bud light for the president, red stripe for the professor and blue moon for the sergeant. i feel really badly about the 911 caller's story. her call triggered the incident. she spoke out for the first time. take a listen. >> the criticism at first was so painful for me and difficult. i was frankly afraid to say anything.

people called me racist and said i caused all the turmoil that followed, and some even said threatening things that made me fear for my safety. >> the justice department is reviewing a judge's ruling that calls for the release of a kuwaiti man held at guantanamo bay. he was arrested in pakistan back in 2001 accused of supporting al qaeda. defense attorney says he was fund-raising for schools and orphanages. two people are in custody this morning. accused of killing a 23-year-old woman and taking her baby from her womb. the infant was found alive yesterday and said to be in good condition. the female suspect arrested with an unidentified man after friends suspected she was lying about giving birth. scientists in boston are unveiling a new discovery that could help in the fight against obesity. researchers have been able to successfully create so-called

good brown fat by using mouse and human cells. brown fat the critical component in burning cells and the more brown fat that you have the more lean you tend to be. >> all right. >> okay? >> that's what i do. >> what's that? >> i have brown fat. if you look at what i drink every morning, it's brown. >> that's a different kind of brown fat nap would be your coffee drink with whipped cream on top and it's not good for you. >> well it is loaded with brown fat. >> no. >> that's why i maintain my child-like figure. i want to get to polls quickly and get responses. chris, fly through these quickly. first of all, the president, of course, approval rating at 53%. and let's go through some of these in three, four major polls and look at health care as a priority. you read about it in the news. the white house obviously looking at that this morning. the economy, jobs 38%. i would think most americans would want the president to

focus on that almost exclusively over the first six months. deficit and spending, 17%. health care, down at 14%. as we've been saying for some time. a lot of americans pleased with their health care plan. it is just that angers the left and many in the media, it's a reality. npr, national public radio, had a generic ballot test. which is the election were held today for congress, would you vote for republican or democrat? 42% say they would vote for a democrat. 43% say they would vote for a republican. the gallup poll has the numbers reversed. finally, this is interesting. finally a public option. do you support a public option, that is of course, what's causing the most consternation between progressive democrats, liberal democrats and blue dogs and also moderate democrats and republicans.

46% favor a public option. 44% oppose the public option. let's bring in michael. you are in the great swing state of pennsylvania. and you understand the back and forth better than most. looks like right now the president is going to be pulled to the middle by a lot of independents that feel like he and the democrats have gone too far left. what are you hearing? >> well i think that folks are confused by the whole subject. you know, a kerfuffle on a porch in cambridge, we can choose sides. determine what should have been the outcome in that case. but health care? holy smokes, joe, a confusing debate and the debate is held as a level most of us are having a hard time following what the issues are. so what do we resort to? we resort to a primary belief that we have health insurance. 80% of us. maybe more than 80% have it.

and we kind of like our plan, and, yes, it's getting to be too expensive, but that seems like an awfully expensive alternative and we don't frankly understand what they're talking about. why don't we just maintain the status quo. that's what i see taking place and what i hear from callers. >> mike barnacle, you look at afl these polls, it looks like the president at least for now, has lost the middle on the issue of health care. there's also a fascinating cbs poll where americans are asked what they want the federal government to do. 58% think the federal government should focus on reducing the deficit. only 35% think they should spend more money. of course, another part of that ask americans whether they'd be willing to cut government services to reduce that deficit, only 35% say yes they would. and others say no. but it looks like deficit reduction is trumping any of the social programs, any social advances that liberals would

like to be afforded in the federal government. >> joe, the big issue in this country, i think, remains jobs, jobs and more jobs. people are truly concerned about the economy no matter the glimmers of hope that various kmifrts give out and appear in the papers every other couple of day, but in the two linked, economy and health care. at the end of the week, nearly every american family, whether it comes to buying a new car, comes to getting sneakers for the kids or going out to supper at a diner or a restaurant, this weekend they asked themselves one universal question. can we afford this? that asked that same question about health care. >> it's not directly linked enough. i'm just talking politically. it's not linked directly enough to move those numbers. and you've been saying nonstop for the past five months the president should focus on three things. jobs, jobs, jobs. >> yes. >> i've been saying he needs to focus on the economy.

he needs to focus on it exclusively. i think we're starting to see that play out in these polls. >> joe, would you agree the most important number building on that point, if the unemployment number go down, meaning we increase our current job, would there be less consternation about deficit spending? >> no doubt about it. if the economy turns around, i think you're exactly right. instead of 10% unemployment, we have 8% unemployment, people see the economy starting to grow, then, that they would feel more comfortable with a more robust health care plan, but, harold, you're exactly right. until this economy turns around, people are squeezing their money tight, and mr. mayor, let me go to you right now. in americans' personal life, 0% savings rate last fall, mika told me yesterday, up to 6% 7% and it looks like americans want their federal government to do the same thing, if you believe

the poll, mr. mayor? >> they're changing -- american, changing their spending habits in response to the economy. and in response to the downturn in the economy, and while everyone wants ultimately a val it budget at the top of it the list has to be job creation. i think people need to brace themselves for the fact that even when the economy begins to turn, we could still have increasing unemployment. we could have a recovery which does not produce a lot of jobs. we're in for a continued tough ride. and these polls are the snapshot in time, and -- >> exactly. >> and there is a lot of debate and discussion, and i think we ought to look at where things are in september, after there's been a chance for things to settle and more discussion and more information. i think at the end of the day, if people understand that providing an opportunity for

everyone to pay into the health care system is going to help reduce costs and make things better for all of us, i think you're going to see broad support. >> and something that you just said, and michael, i'll go to you on this one an also talking about the beer summit, we don't really look at the polls right now, and i would suggest unless you're in virginia and new jersey, the polls this september won't matter. the polls that are going to matter are the ones in september 2010, when we're any other the mid-term elections. americans will be looking at that. i wonder, michael, will they even remember next year in the mid-term election the beer summit? or professor gates? or officer crowley? or will that just be one more summer distraction for the news immediate dia? >> i think it's going to be used to stoke the gop base. you see that going on in certain corridors right now in a way i personally don't agree with. >> what are you talking about? wait. let me stop you there. who?

>> well what i'm saying is, you'll probably see it come back as a montage along with reverend wright and the first lady making that statement that she made out on the campaign trail. i -- >> who's stoking the fire, michael? who's stoking the fire right now among the republicans? >> well what i'm talking about are not the republicans, per se. i'm talking about the talk show hosts and the pundits on television who are using this as a means of trying to rally the base. you know -- >> like who? >> racism that i'm talking about. >> are you talking about glenn beck? >> yeah. >> yeah. can you believe that glenn beck said yesterday that the president of the united states is a racist? >> i mean i think it doesn't help the gop. it's certainly not going to help any legitimate opponent of the president, or of the democratic congress in the next cycle. >> yeah. >> lead 20%. that's not going to win a race. >> so michael, while the

president's numbers are collapsing, you've got on the far right distracting americans and you've got glenn beck calling the president of united states a racist. do these people really believe that's how they're going to win elections next year? >> i believe it's probably how you nominate a candidate. it's not how you win a general election. and that's the problem with the gop and we're six months into this administration and nothing has changed in terms of the republicans trying to seize control of this situation. unfortunately, the fringes are still calling the shots. the most interesting internal about that poll is that 67% of those surveyed said they don't want sarah palin as the president. and yet that's what continues to grab all the headlines and all the attention on the right. >> it's important to remember there are an awful lot of talk show radio hosts a lot of powerful ones that didn't wan john mccain nominated in 2008. he got nominated anyway. >> that's true. >> mr. mayor, let me have you respond to the charges of the

president of the united states is a racist, and then tell me what you're looking forward to tonight in the beer summit? >> i think glenn beck should have his mouth washed out with soap. it's outrageous to attack the president of the united states and trying to divide people. designed -- it's old-fashioned finger-pointing politics. i think that what i hope tonight is that they're enjoy a good beer,s have a good discussion, and then we can take -- we can move on as a nation, brut i wouldn't leave it in this country and i said before it's time for congress to go back to something that even president bush supported and that to end racial profiling act proposed in the congress in 2001, i believe, that lost momentum after 9/11. it's time to pick that back up and a chance for maybe there to be some bipartisanship support to go forward, and in that way we can take the steps to put the

issue behind us. >> great. thank you so much, mr. mayor. best of luck at the conference. we always love having you. >> we're in chicago, and -- we'll be back. >> great. >> what's coming up next, mika? coming up, and michael, thanks very much. your both morning drive, things i wish i knew before i started talking. coming up, compromising for health care. senator sherrod brown has concerns what might be left in the new deal and also chuck todd goes sboods the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll and after the break, goldman-sachs, are they evil? talk to the man who wrote the cover story in "new york" magazine asking that question. you're watching "morning joe" bruped by starbucks. rewrite your hair's past and give it a whole new life.

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this virus doesn't grow very well in cultures. it's almost certain it's going to be limited supplies. excuse me. >> be careful! welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now contributing editor of "new york" magazine, joe haggan. he wrote the magazine cover story. tenacious g, goldman-sachs, are they evil or just too good? and he writes this in his article. the firm's culture has been compared to variously the army, the kgb, the mafia, skull and bones. it's not just about attracting the best and brightest but transforming them into a giant perfectly synchronized trading machine. the individual which i think has been a disadvantage to so many competitors doesn't exist here, says a british forum's communications director. the more you have acceptance the easier it is to be effective.

as another wall street veteran familiar with the firm's mores puts it: the god is goldman. you subjugate yourself to that god and in return we will make you a gazillionaire. >> what i found, they are extremely ruthless capitalists as time when people are very skeptical of ruthless capitalists. >> bad timing? >> i think the financial meltdown kind of uncovered the scale from a lot of people's eyes how the financial system operates, and also the influence of the financial industry in washington. >> we're also at a time when the american taxpayer contributing to propping up some of these companies and perhaps their success may feel like it's on the back of the hard-working taxpayer. >> absolutely. >> a lot of animosity. >> and they haven't helped themselves by, you know, maintaining the position they

never needed the government. that's attracted a lot of skepticism whether or not that's true, and you know, obviously a lot of people have read about how many goldman people and a bias towards them at the height of it when -- >> right. joe? >> i was going to say they say they don't need the government money, and yet it seems to me one of the greatest beneficiaries of the dreaded aig bailout was goldman-sachs. in 1995 we debated the mexican bailout. we didn't realize that was actually the goldman-sachs bailout. >> right. >> they were heavily leveraged in the pay. so how does goldman-sachs control washington so effectively? and this hasn't just started. i mean, goldman-sachs has had it's tentacles all over d.c. for some time. how do they do it? >> well, you know, joe, you're

not naive. you know power loves money opinion these guys have a lot of money. they are great at making money, and politicians need money, and also looking for jobs when they get out of their political positions. you find a lot of people from washington going to goldman-sachs to get that gold plated you know, lifestyle. so there's been a revolving door for years and it's sort of been just basically accepted as a part of life, and but now people are questioning the intimacy of finance with washington, especially now. so -- >> hmm. mike barnacle. >> joe, do you think some confusion over what goldman-sachs is among the public eye? i mean, this umbrella of legitimate anger over financial services in this country that has bubbled up in the last six months. goldman, you're not going there for a car loan -- >> don't have credit cards, banks. can't touch, squeeze, feel, any

they make. operating billions of dollars in cash and securities in a world nobody can see, and very private and secretive, why they're highly uncomfortable with today's environment with the light shining on them and now you have the flames being fanned in washington right now to bring some more regulatory scrutiny on these guys. so that's sort of what's going on now, the dance. >> they're in the business of making money. >> right. >> what they're doing. >> and doing a great job. >> your piece you start off, the title makes a point about goldman, or is it just that good? what do you find in the "just that good" part? >> they are very good at exploiting every opportunity available anywhere, and if there's a loophole, they'll jump through if they can. and the question is, whether when, they're having that influence in washington, whether that's a legitimate, you know, edge, advantage they should have, and so you know, they are

really good at pushing the limits, and where they can they will. now people, the onus is now on regulators in congress to decide where are we going to put the regulations now? where are we going to put up fengss on this? >> would they have been as successful, if they were subjected to the same regulation as banks? >> they say they would, but, of course, they would. they can figure out any way to make money in any environment, and that may be true. >> ah. >> so they are very smart guys and can figure out a way. but they are extremely unhappy about the prospect of more regulation. they desire as much deregulation as possible. >> joe hagan, thank you so much. your article in the latest issue of "new york" magazine. thanks for coming in. >> thanks to having me. we'll be right back with nbc news political director chuck todd. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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obama's solution, invite professor gates and officer crowley to the cowl to do beer bongs. his plan is to get them so drunk they no longer see each other through the lens of racism but through beer goggles. >> all right. i'm just going to hold my tong. so many jokes here. here with us, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director chuck todd. joe's in boston this morning. a lot of really interesting polls this morning. in terms of what people especially find important, health care, joe, not at the top of the list. >> no, it's not even close to the top of the list. if you look at the nbc polling and the other polls at the same time, americans say they want the deficit reduced don't want their services cut. so here we are in a catch 22 again. chuck, talk about the nbc

news/"wall street journal" poll. what's the biggest headline? >> from 30,000 feet, you know, like a 2 x 4 to your head of a reminder, guess what, this is about the economy. this is always about the economy. presidents are always judged by the economy, because there's a couple things if you start messing around with the numbers. talking about health care the last three week. has that messaging worked? no. why? because actually the importance of health care as far as the concerns of the public have gone down. the president's job rating on health care has gone down. the fact, the nervousness about details of the plan has gone up and instead we've seen a rise in concern about the economy. we still have a majority of the population thinking that the worst is still yet to come. that we haven't hit bottom and i think it's not a coincidence yesterday you saw the president not just try to tweak health care into health insurance reform but brought up the economy again, because -- look, i interviewed one person for

this package yesterday on "nightly news" and all she said was i just want help finding a job. >> because back in 1992 the sign of course, the campaign headquarters, it's the economy, stupid. it's still the economy, stupid. let's talk, chuck, about the biggest surprise in this nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. the biggest surprise to you? >> the head scratcher was seeing joe biden's ratings. he got a one to one favorable -- i noticed this, favorite politician in the world. >> joe's likable. >> his fave, unfave, neutral. one to one. there is never a good story about joe biden. anytime there's a story about joe biden, oh, he made a gaffe or he did this, nobody get on a subway. no. no, no, no. he is not -- doesn't get stories, joe biden had a successful trip to georgia and the ukraine.

he doesn't get those stories. >> chuck you know whose fault that is, right? >> i assume it's mine and yours and the media's? >> it's jay carney. the guy that makes me swear on the air. jay, we're blaming you for that. this is the toughest job. >> it is. >> it is. >> it's the job that shrinks the participants because people look for the bad news. it is not fair the way joe biden is treated. i know barnacle will agree. where are we politically at the end of july six months after the president got into office? >> remarkable, the entire poll and the way everybody is split up it's as if we're back to the campaign. everybody put on their jerseys again. the red team put red jerseys on. the blue team -- because you're seeing the president 40% disapproval rating. all coming from republicans. acting like republicans opinion the republican message, and this is what a republican pollster

said. this conventionals with dumb that said the party of no, damaging the republican party. it isn't right now, because that message is getting to republicans. we're seeing republicans for the first time trusted more to handle the deficit than democrat. first time in 12 years according to our poll, seeing numbers go up on government spending. this strategy of just being against the president, their message is getting tlund the president's message is not. >> sometimes saying no is enough. it was enough for nancy pelosi to become speaker in 2006. it may be enough in 2009 in virginia and -- >> one caveat. remember, though, this poll is coming at a time when it's been a referendum on the democratic party and on barack obama. that hasn't been a campaign against the republicans, but, right. this is not good for democrats. >> after six years of mismanagement of republican leadership, a referendum on republicans in "06. mike barnacle what question to you have for chuck? >> off of what you just said,

literally "back to the future." past partisanship, it's gone, it's gone, and i think, look. this is one thing. the president has not been asked. remember, he said he was going to have a post partisan atmosphere. you talked, interesting, harold, from your home state, alexander had something to say. a guy described as a pragmatic conservative. a down the line republican but likes to, wants to come to the table. he said, they're very nice to me. they make a lot of phone calls but i don't feel like i get to participate in a policy debate, and so whatever it is, republicans, even lamar alexander, hasn't felt ready to go and work with this white house, and i would argue, this is -- if you have not done enough to get him interested in having a postpartisan atmosphere, ought to say, what are we doing? are we doing something wrong we should be doing? i'llful you this, it's a prayer

fire. look at california, new york. if democrats fail to get a health care reform bill, people feel like reformed health care, change the system, they're say, wait a minute. washington doesn't know what they're doing. in my home state, there's going to be this -- they're going to be searching around for perot anti-government -- capitalist. >> absolutely. >> what does the white house take away from this? who are they blaming or contribute some of the responsibility and have they signaled change or suggested a change or approach on health care and any other big ticket item? >> they would say this -- number one, remember, this is summer. he had a summer slump in '07. a summer slump in '08 and came roaring back in the fall. they would say, patience, patience, patience. second, think of it as congress' fault. here's why. health care debate. no plan to sell. an idea to sell. when there has been news about health care it's come from congress. whenever we turn our spotlight and our lights on congress, the

public doesn't like what they see. it's an ugly process. it's the reason the people say it's like watching sausage being made, because it's ugly, and that has taken a toll on the entire atmosphere, which starts with the president. >> more details to come from the president? >> i don't know. remember, he is the most popular politician in the country. >> he is now being judged by the public as just another politician. quickly ask you about tonight at the white house. anything to these reports that the candidate in virginia fo governor, not appearing with obama at these events? >> no, no. this was an event -- obama, and appearing together next week. >> what do you think the white house is hoping to get out of this beer tonight between those two people? i'm sure they're wishing they weren't involved. >> some are wondering why eight days later? why not monday? the most important thing they've decided to do is only let

cameras in before they start drinking beer. after a couple beers, right, see what they say? >> interesting. >> one of our poll sisters said, when we asked, the only teachable moment should be with the president. don't get involved. >> ooh. okay. on that note, chuck todd, thanks very much. we'll be reading updates from you throughout the day. msnbc.com. chuck, thanks very much. and coming up next, senator sherrod brown, concerns about what the health care deal might not do. you're watching "morning joe," morning brew -- brewed by starbucks. it's the chevy open house. and now, with the cash for clunkers program, a great deal gets even better.

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there are some people that are never going to be for health care reform, and they lack the real we playing, because it was stopping health care reform, although i think i've made it very clear from the beginning that we were never about solving let care reform. we wanted to play a constructive role in the legislative process. >> all right. welcome back. here with us now, democratic senator from ohio and member of the health education labor and pension committee, senator sherrod brown. senator, thanks for being with us. >> glad to be here. >> lay out for us why a public option is so important? a poll shows 44% of americans disagree with that. >> 44% of americans are not happy with what they're seeing by the health care plan. a huge percentage of americans like the public option and have from the start. the public option is injecting competition in with the insurance industry. people aren't wild about the way the insurance sdi denies care,

the way the insurance industry uses pre-existing conditions to keep people from getting insurance's. the public option will do several things. keep insurance industry honest. the public option can bring costs down. the public option will be available for people to lose their job, people in rural area, people that might not be able to have real insurance choices. this simply gives them a choice. that's why it's called a public option. >> good to see you again, sherrod. let me ask you about your reaction to the blue dogs in the house. joe scarborough here. the plan, certainly looks nothing like the public option you want. does this set a trail of core democratic principles? >> i don't think it's betrayal. i would separate what happened, what's happening in the house, joe, and what's about to happen in the finance committee. in the house seems like they've come to an agreement using much of the language that senator whitehouse from rhode island and

i wrote for the public option in the health committee, the bill that's already come out of the committee ready to go. what the senate's doing is a small number of senators really on this co-op. i don't think the co-op works. i think it really doesn't do what we need to do. great majority of the senate, the democrats in the senate, and a huge majority of the public wants a real public option. something we know will work and compete with the insurance industry and keep them honest so they don't keep gaining the system. >> sherrod, let me ask you what do you think the president should do to reverse poll numbers? look at nbc news/"wall street journal" poll regarding priorities, economy, 38%. health care, all wait down to 14%. obviously, in your home state of ohio, unemployment is now over 11%. do you understand america's frustration saying congress and the president should only focus on jobs, jobs and jobs? >> well, that's -- my mantra said that for years.

focusing on jobs whether trade policy, whether tax policy, whether it's the manufacturing policy, which i've been talking to the white house about, the president coming ford with, but i think that you can't do what you need to do in this economy without fixing the health care system. as the president said, premiums will double in the next ten years as there is the last ten, joe. if we don't do what we need to do to keep costs under control small businesses get kill 37d large businesses aren't competitive. people can't afford has they're having to pay out of pocket. this all -- we twleed to do this together. accelerate what's in the stimulus package a little more so we can do what we're doing in fremont and apply it in athens ohio where there are projects going bnd jobs are being created. >> senator, another question for you. >> good morning. good to see you. seems like part of the unease about the public option is that some american, many americansish believe it will allow government to choose their doctor, choose the prescriptions they're able to get. in other words, the government

will have more control. how do you answer that more effectively? >> it's limp simply not true. you know, harold. public option is just an option. the way it works people without insurance and people that are dissatisfied with their insurance, if you have insurance and you're happy, keep it. if dissatisfied or underinsured, have no insurance you go under a gateway to choose. go with appnet, mutual insurance company in ohio, go with a public option. you have a choice. nobody's telling what you doctor to choose, what hospital or plan to choose. you get that choice. another choice that will drive competition and make everything work better. >> mike barnacle? >> senator, thanks for coming in this morning. sorry the indians traded cliff lee, but have a good day. >> glad he didn't go to the red sox, though. >> watch it. >> left-hander in fenway park. right? >> hmm. senator brown, thank you so much. good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> good to see you. still ahead, right here on

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joe." with us now, the managing editor of "time" magazine, rick stengel who's here to unveil this week's new cover of "time." what's it going to be? >> good morning, mika. our new cover is on the subject of the hour -- paging dr. obama. the doctor in chief of america and what's going on with health care. we have an interview that our national political correspondent karen tumulty did with the president the other day and it is a story about the challenges that he's having, not only rhetorical challenges which he talks about in the interview but the fact that he's still trying to figure out what to actually do about health care and how to get it passed. we, too, have a poll. it shows the contradictions that are inherent in the american public in dealing with health care because more than 80% of people are actually satisfied with their coverage. at the same time, about 56% think it needs to change.

for so many americans, as joe klein writes in one of the parts of the cover story, the health care crisis is theoretical, it is not real, because people are actually happy with their health care. one reason that obama has had such a challenge in trying to explain it to the american public, because a lot of people are pretty content with their health care coverage. >> look at this number -- 62% thinking that reform will raise costs, something that we've been questioning, joe especially, from the get-go. joe? >> no doubt about it. rick, i'm a conservative/libertarian. when i make this next statement i'm not saying it is a bleeding heart, but the political reality in america is there just aren't a whole hell of a lot of lobbyists for poor people, for disadvantaged. and a majority of americans would probably say get rid of medicaid, cut medicaid, before you cut medicare, and other middle class entitlements. this is the problem the president and democrats face, isn't it?

>> it is one of the problems. what joe klein writes about this week is that in a mature democracy, what happens is that there are so many interest groups that are contending with each other in terms of getting what they want that it's very hard nowadays to actually pass legislation. he talks about how in fact there are so many legislators, they're kind of rusty. we haven't passed big legislation in america in fact since medicare and medicaid, and that was 40 years ago. >> rick, you mentioned earlier the rhetorical challenges this president is facing. it is kind of ironic given the praise he's received for being such a great communicator. why has it been so difficult for him to say in very plain terms here's what we're doing, here's why it needs to be done? >> i think the subject is so complex, and in fact for so many americans, the more they learn about health care, the less they seem to know and understand it. i also think -- and he talks about this in the interview -- i think so much of our language about dealing with health care was kind of pre-recession, pre

the fall of lehman brothers. i think they've struggled a little bit because they use the traditional language to talk about health care, when in fact the complexion of the country changed and people weren't as concerned about the same health care issues they were ten years ago, or even a year ago. so i think that's been part of his challenge. >> one of the elements in karen's interview with the president gets to the premise that you just mentioned, the difficulty of legislating today. it is when he says roughly paraphrasing, when he says to karen that if you took a look at how the cleveland clinic or the mayo clinic operates, so efficiently, and transfer how they operate into the federal government's health care plan, our problems would be solved. people read that, say, well why not just go out and take the blueprint from the cleveland clinic and pass it into law? yet they can't. >> right. well, of course it's not that easy. the cleveland clinic has been doing what it's been doing for

two or three decades and have evolved into a practice that works. but talking about passing legislation, what he says to karen is that he uses the example of lbj. he said lbj could have just put his arm around a few people and said "you guys have got to do this." but legislators now are more independent, more lobbyists are at their door every day. in fact the parties have become more ideological in a way, more separated than it was in '63, '64 when lbj was passing this legislation. >> wow. rick stengel, thank you very much, the new cover of "time" magazine is "paging dr. obama." pretty good. coming up next, msnbc political analyst lawrence o'donnell. rick, thanks very much. at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 here on the east coast. you're looking at live pictures of los angeles where it is 5:00 a.m. lawrence o'donnell normally spends his time being crazy. this morning he'll be crazy here in new york. let's get a look at las vegas. lose the banner. there it is, in all its glory.

boston, equally exciting. >> is that boston? >> yes, it's cloudy and rainy. joe's there. >> how about washington, d.c.? there it is. there it is. >> what is wrong with you? end this stupidity. >> it is a nice day in new york today, looking south from the top of 30 rock. >> thank you, willie, for that trip around the country. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm mika brzezinskbrzezinski. joe is in boston. how's it going? >> it's going fine. willie and i have been talking about expanding our work out of manhattan to other areas, and all i can say is, as far as nantucket goes, mission accomplished. >> hey, joe -- >> when i went there, the economy was devastated. homeless people across the street. willie, i think willie cares is

really having an impact. >> it is. joe, i just found a staggering number that you'll find interesting. do you know that 40% of children on nantucket cannot afford dinn dinner? >> you know what i'm thinking that we need to do? we need to take this to maine next. i think northeast harbor. >> let's do it. >> ravaged by this recession. you know what? we can do better. and we will. speaking of crazy, let's go to lawrence o'donnell. lawrence, it looks like we're going to move into an area a lot like 1994 where there's going to be a lot of fifting, a lot of back-and-forth on health care. we'll get the news in one minute. but very quickly give the president advice. what does he do right now to turn these numbers around, to regain momentum? >> i don't think he can. the model now is exactly the

same as 1994. the more he talks about the plan, the more the popularity decreases. this is exactly what happened to hillary clinton when she took her campaign on the road. you remember, joe, she started a bus tour of the country which she had to stop because it was hurting the plan every day she talked about it. we saw this with george w. bush on social security reform, the same thing. every day he went out and pushed it, the popularity went down. there is no model that i know of where the president can save this through a public campaign. >> i got an idea for you, lawrence. we'll talk about it right after news. i'd love to get your response. mika? i'm going to show you the polls here that we're talking about. then i'm going to ask you what your advice would be. it is time now for a look at some of today's top stories, as we mentioned. despite a full-force push from the white house, new polling shows public support for health care reform appears to be losing ground. according to nbc news and the "wall street journal." 42% say the president's proposal

is a bad idea. that's a 10-point jump from just last month. to most americans it is not the top priority. the issue ranks third behind the economy and concerns over the deficit and spending. meantime, the president enjoys a 53% approval rating, but that's down eight points from april. faced with dwindling support, the white house is seeking a compromise between white house leaders and so-called blue dog democrats. agreement changes the terms of a government insurance option and pushes back any vote until after the august break. speaking in north carolina, the president brushed off the timetable and took on his critics. >> nobody is talking about some government takeover of health care. i'm tired of hearing that. under the reform i've proposed, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. these folks need to stop scaring

everybody. >> so joe, how does he turn these numbers around at this point? is it possible? >> yeah, it is possible. we won't -- i won't take up too much time in news, but you know what? it worked in 1995. the president needs to triangulate. i'll give you three messages that the president should deliver to congress and america that i believe can turn the numbers around. but i'd love to get lawrence o'donnell's response because he was there in the senate during the 1994 battle. >> we'll do that right after news. and get those messages. i'm curious. meanwhile, today the president is set to meet with the massachusetts police officers and the harvard scholar at center of the recent racial debate. they are planning to cool off over a cold one, but the lid li the professor, red stripe for the proper sore and blue moon for the officer. >> the criticism at first was so

painful for me and difficult, i was frankly afraid to say anything. people called me racist and said i caused all of the turmoil that followed, and some even said threatening things that made me fear for my safety. >> the justice department is reviewing a judge's ruling that calls for the release of a kuwaiti man being held at guantanamo bay. he was arrested in pakistan back in 2001, accused of supporting al qaeda. defense attorneys say he was fund-raising for schools and orphanages. the wife of imprisoned ponzi schemer bernie madoff is being sued for $45 million to compensate victims of his massive fraud. of course when a trustee claims ruth madoff received tens of millions of dollars in fraudulent transferred over a six-year period. and a new british review of several studies shows organic food is not healthier than conventional products, according

to the report. there is no difference in the levels of nutrients in produce, meat, dairy or eggs. the review did not, however, address any potential health concerns connected to the chemicals used in non-organic agricultural -- >> you want to read that again? >> no, i get it. there's no chemicals in it. i like that. >> you've been telling us for a year now buy organic. >> nature's best. i am a little let down. it is not as bad as the water bottle thing though, people buying plastic bottles of tap water. stupidity. beyond stupidity. speaking of stupidity -- you know that there is an obesity crisis in this country? >> the whip cream -- organic. >> joe has lost 15 pounds since he began drinking those. >> with that in mind, with us now, msnbc political analyst lawrence o'donnell, also willie

geist and mike barnicle. what are the three messages the president needs to focus on to turn these numbers around. >> i just want you to know, not my views but this is about the president's political survival. this is about democrats keeping the house in 2010. i've written three things down here. first of all, generally, lawrence, i think the president needs to stop making this his bill. he needs to turn this into nancy pelosi's bill and i would give three threats to congress. it is triangulation but it worked for bill clinton in '95. i would say number one, if health care reform doesn't cut costs, according to congress' own budget office, i will veto that bill. number two, if health care reform doesn't provide strong consumer protections, i will veto that bill. number three, if health care reform doesn't allow you to keep your doctor, i will veto that bill. those are all 80/20 issues.

what you just may get if you're president obama is a bill that is very strong in consumer protections, that doesn't allow insurance companies to have the pre-existing clause in there, that allows parents to keep their children that can't find a job after they get out of high school or college on their insurance policy until 26, and a couple of other strong consumer protections that will, in the end, be something that democrats can campaign on for 2010. more than that, they're not going to get a strong public option. i think democrats need to realize that and start playing for 2010. what do you think? >> i think your advice to the president is good. that would be a very good rhetorical place for him to be on this right now. and you're right, give the ownership of it back to the congress. the problem though, joe -- i mean, sure, veto threat on this, this, and this. what i don't see right now is how you get a bill in any form to the president's desk to be

signed or vetoed. that's where we're stuck right now. i mean in '94, we were in exactly the same place. henry waxman's committee was run by john dingell. he had introduced a health reform bill every year because his father did before him. john dingell could not get a bill out of that committee. waxman has yet to get a bill out of that committee. he might now because he's made a deal with half of the blue dogs who were protesting on his committee, but you have to worry about the other half on that committee who are not on-board, even with the compromises that have been made. >> if i'm in the white house, lawrence, i'm concerned about one thing right now. it sound cynical but it is the truth. if i'm axelrod, if i'm rahm, i don't want the president below 50%. >> i agree with you, joe. >> not only is that bad for the white house, that's bad for the democrats in congress. that's bad for democrats running in virginia and new jersey this year.

he's got to turn his gun on the democrats in congress and say, "nothing personal, but if i go down, we all go down." >> but even on the compromise that waxman has been working out, you already have liberals in the house saying "i will vote against that." so -- but joe, what it means is, if that happens, no bill will make it through the house, just like last time. last time they couldn't even bring a bill to the floor of the house. in the senate, we got a bill to the floor for about four days on the senate -- on the senate side before we had to completely surrender and give up. >> again, mike barnicle, the only thing i'm talking about is president obama being a political analyst here. fy want to keep his numbers above 50% right now, i don't care if the health care bill comes to my desk. but i take charge of this again and tell those on the far left of my own party, you know what? i gave you the stimulus plan, i gave you cap-and-trade, i gave you everything you've asked for for six months, i've got to take

control of this agenda and i've got to tell you no. in the end it is in the democratic party's best interest that i do so. >> joe, you get the sense out there that there is a huge difference between rhetoric and reality. and the reality is, in this health bill, the sticker price of this health bill has shocked a lot of americans because they're concerned about the the cost of a pair of sneakers or going out to dinner this beak jend with their family. in order to triangulate successfully, one additional element should be thrown in there for the president offering this free, cheap advice, and you just referenced it. it is to tell the left in his party, "look. here's what i'm looking for. i want this to be my bill, not your bill, but i want this to be a bill that we can afford to pay for and pay for it right now. not ten years down the road. not $6 trillion in more deficits." i think that would give him a better shot at success, at signing something. >> but the left in his party cannot be ordered around on this subject. barney frank came out yesterday and said he would vote against what waxman is agreeing to here.

the left in his party, and the right, if we do call it that in his party, they could not move a bill through the house of representatives last time, that same thing. we're on the verge of the same thing happening here. this poll shows 22% -- there is only one place for that number to go but up. by the time after we come back from the august recess, that number's going to be 50%. >> lawrence and joe, what happens if the president taking them on, takes the left, nothing comes out of the senate or the house, you won't have a signing moment or veto moment, no moment gets past if he takes them on. >> i just have to say again politically, that is better for the president of the united states right now. what i would do if i were the president, i'd say, okay, we're starting all this over, let me tell you what we're going to do -- right now we're going to put a bill out there with strong consumer protections.

we're going to make sure that if you're sick, an insurance company can't deny you health care because you need it more than most americans. we're going to insure that if your child is 23, 24 and has diabetes, he can stay on your health care insurance policy as a family, even if he can't find a job right now. we're not going to throw him or her out on the streets, too. i'm going to do this first, and i dare barney frank to vote against it. i dare democrats in congress to vote against it. when the economy turns around, we're going to try this again. i will not leave office without comprehensive health care. he's got to take what he can get right now and stop fighting it. the ship is sinking. he can't get below 50%. that's bad for the entire democratic party. >> joe, we did that in '94. we actually did that. at a certain point in the process people started to abandon the clinton approach and they started to abandon the possibility of getting an employer mandate, for example, and we were constantly, every week, trying to design a smaller, cleaner, simpler bill.

the final version of this was one that senator moynihan wrote in the finance committee which was the most simple version of this you could ask for. every single time we introduced a watered-down, simpler, easier to comprehend, lower-cost bill, it -- we did it too late. by the time we got that one out, the opposition had built so strongly that you couldn't pass anything. >> what about a consumer protection bill? >> in the end, you couldn't even get that done. >> if i were a democrat, i would love republicans to have to vote against a consumer protection bill. >> the problem with the senate, joe, is when you bring something to the floor of the senate, it's wide open to amendment, so there's no such thing as bringing a so-called -- you can bring what you call a consumer protection plan from the senate on the first day that will be amendments introduced to change that into something else dramatically one way or the other. >> lawrence, let me ask you, what impact, if any, do you think ted kennedy's absence has

had? >> i don't think kennedy's absence has meant anything to the process. notice how every kone has focus on the senate fn committee. last time around they passed a very liberal bill that was completely irrelevant to the process. that committee doesn't have jurisdiction over medicare, medicaid, taxation, any of the pieces you really need to legislate this. so he cares about it and he's an extremely helpful force in shaping the way it looks on his committee, but i think chris dodd did exactly what ted would have done in that committee. so i miss him, and i wish he was there, but i can't show you "here's the legislative deficit that has occurred because ted's not there." it is max baucus' game in the senate, it is up to him to get something they can pass. >> next lawrence o'donnell is going to tell us that there is no santa claus. can this guy be anymore grim? >> it's the structure of the senate. the finance committee's where it

happens. notice how that's where the press has been camped out for the last couple of weeks for very good reason. the press did not camp out at the health, education and labor committee because they knew this is not an important event, this thing passing. did anyone care that in the house, the education and labor committee passed a bill? no. no one even covered it. did anyone care ways and means passed a bill? no, no one covered it. because those bills are completely irrelevant. >> lawrence, if you say health care's doomed -- >> i don't say it's doomed. i say it looks every bit as bad as it did at this point in 1994. that's all. i'm not predicting. >> well, i am predicting. this version of health care with a strong public option is doomed. the question is, what does the president do next? if you're looking between now and the end of the year, what does the president do over the next six months when he gets back from vacation to kick-start his administration to stay above 50% in the polls? >> he'd have to change the subject and change it really fast. look, the best version of one of

these zero outcomes was bush's crusade on social security. no one remembers the day that the bush crusade on social security reform died because the press forgot that he was even doing it. the thing just petered out into absolute zero. i mean i predict that on the first day of that crusade that he was going to get zero and it was going to die. it was a huge story when it began. the whole thing just petered out. so for him changing the subject was easy. for bill clinton when he got zero, and for barack obama if this thing fails completely, changing the subject is going to be difficult but it is going to be necessary. and foreign policy would be the first place you would go to get a dramatic subject change. >> what happens if instead of town meetings and beer fests with gates and crowley tonight, why doesn't he have a series of beer fests with baucus and waxman? >> listen, i've been in these meetings. secret meetings they're doing at finance committee this week. i've been at over one of those in '94. i was in the oval office with

president clinton on this, the president, in effect, is a beggar in these situations. >> can you get me anymore depressed? >> the answer from the chairman is -- it is a very impersonal answer. it is i have six votes for that, i have 12 votes for that, i have three votes for that, nine votes for that and that's the best answer you can get. accurate count of what the vote is. that's all you can really do. >> mika, in the end, with barnicle it always comes down to beer. you know what else it comes down to -- we've been saying it here consistently -- it comes down to democratic senators like clair mccaskill that's going to win in a state that mccain won. it comes down to evan bayh, a state that's probably going to go republican in 2010, that always goes republican -- didn't last time. the senators in arkansas, mary landrieu in louisiana.

that's -- that's the center of the democratic party. the center of the democratic party has held this up. i think that's why we are where we are. >> lawrence o'donnell, should we keep him? >> yeah. >> okay. all right. >> that's all the material i've got. coming you, blue dog democratic congressman baron hill. and we'll check in with cnbc's erin burnett live at the new york stock exchange. and guitar heroes. oscar winning director david guggenheim turns up the volume with his new documentary. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

welcome back to "morning joe." let's get back to business here. with us now, democratic representative from indiana and member of the joint economic committee, congressman baron hill. congressman hilled is is the lead negotiator for the blue dog democrats on the house health care bill. congressman, thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you here this morning. >> i'm sure you've heard the criticism. you guys are getting in the way of progress. >> no, not at all. we want health care. we just want to make sure that it's done in a fiscally sound way. we want to cut the costs. health care is not going to be meaningful if we don't reform

the system. throwing a bunch of money into the system is not reform. it is the wrong thing to do. we'll get health care before it is all over with. >> lawrence o'donnell is getting ready to launch into this conversation. go, lawrence. >> what are your deal breakers? will you vote against anything that has an employer mandate in it? >> well, the bill -- we've changed it. it allows some exemptions for small businesses. if you got a payroll of $500,000, or less, you're not going to have to pay into this thing. we need to make sure that small businesses are protected. i think we've accomplished that in the proposal that we've made to the leadership. >> so you would go for an employer mandate for everything above that small business threshold that you have defined. >> that's correct. >> and what would be the penalty for companies on the employer mandate, those who didn't provide health insurance? would they have to pay that 8% payroll tax that has been talked about, or would it be lower? >> that's the proposal right now. this is a long way off before we

actually have a bill. the 8% is something that i think is negotiable and we'll see what happens. >> what do you expect to happen over the course of the august recess where there is no bill that has been passed in either body so there isn't really a particular bill for you to talk about out there in your district. how are you going to handle that with your constituents who are filled with doubts and questions about this and doubts about whether it is a good plan or what the outcome is going to be, just keep rising according to the polls? >> one of the things the blue dogs wanted to do was to delay passage in the house. we felt like passing a bill this soon was not a wise thing to do because the public is not caught up with what we're trying to do here. we had to slow down, be thoughtful and meaningful about what we're going to be doing. we're going to be kicking the bill out of the energy and commerce committee probably some time today or maybe tomorrow and that will be kind of the foundation of what we're going to be looking at so that we can go back to our districts in the

august break and listen to what people had to say about it. >> barney frank says he'll vote against this bill coming out of your committee if it comes out the way it's being reported right now. can you possibly pass something on the floor of the house with barney frank and his side of the house opposing it? >> well, i think we need health care. i think barney frank knows that we need health care as well. what ultimately it looks like, it remains to be seen. but i think that barney and myself and the rest of the congress understand that we're on the brink here of doing something that for over 60 years we've been trying to do, that's reform health care. 94% of the american people want us to be successful in this, according to the polls that i've looked at. think we're going to get it done this time. >> congressman, let's look at the politics of it though. usually if you lose a barney frank, you will gain a moderate republican in the house. that's just the politics of it. in this case though, have you i.d.'d 10, 15, 20 republicans, moderates, that will support

your health care plan if you lose 15, 20 progressives on the democratic side? >> well, i don't know about that, joe. all i know is i want to stay focused on making sure that we get a health care bill passed. i believe that all democrats -- >> yeah, but my point is congressman -- if you lose -- i'm just talking pure politics -- if you lose 20 progressives, 30 progressives, you got to find some republicans to join you or you're not going to pass the bill. have you been talk iing working actively with group republicans? >> no, not at all. we've not had any discussions or negotiations with republicans. we invite republicans to be a part of the solution to our health care problems that we have, but we've not had any negotiations with them. >> give me a couple of names that you would target, you think are moderate republicans. like mike castle. can you ask him to five find republicans to come talk to you to try to build this coalition

and make it bipartisan? >> i know mike castle. he's a good man, and a moderate republican. i think he's somebody we can reach out to to see that we get health care reform passed. >> congressman, not one of the bills that's come out of any of the committees actually provides universal coverage, 100% coverage, for the country. how many people are left out in the version of the bill that you think will come out of your committee this week? some of them have delivered bills that would leave out as many as $30 million. others have delivered bills that would leave out as many as 17 million people in what was supposed to be a universal coverage bill. how many are you going to leave out? >> well, i don't know the exact number. i've heard 30, i've heard 17, i've heard 8 million people are going to be left out. my understanding is that people who are left out are actually illegal immigrants that won't be allowed to sign up for this health care plan. >> congressman, you can call

barney frank a progressive column, a liberal column, whatever you want. i call him someone who really knows his congressional district. in terms of knowing your congressional district, whether it is barney frank or someone else, can you go over again, explain what the small business exemption component is in the bill that you're pushing? >> in the proposal that we made to henry waxman, chairman of the committee, and the leadership, was to exempt businesses that have a $500,000 payroll. anything below $500,000, they're exempted out. that's really taking about 86% of the small businesses in this country. so 86% of the small businesses would not to have pay this 8% tax that is being proposed. but it does mean that those people who work with those businesses will still have access to health care because they'll be able to get on the exchange and have a subsidy. >> all right, congressman, thank you very much for joining us on the show this morning. >> good to be with you this morning. when we come back, new

jobless numbers an earnings reports. cnbc's erin burnett straight ahead on "morning joe." welcome to the now network. right now

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joe." live pictures looking south on manhattan down to wall street. new weekly jobless numbers are out. here about that and much more, cnbc's erin burnett live at the new york stock exchange. hey, erin. >> oh. hi. >> seriously, put it down. it is not a joke, put it down. >> you know, i don't know why mcdonald's is ringing the opening bell here today. there are long lines outside for free coffee. >> have you heard about eso's water? >> it's not water. >> okay. i put it out of the picture now. we have some headlines to share with you. the first and most important is jobless claims. they rose by 24,000 last month, slightly less than economists were looking for which would obviously be better than expected news. it means fewer people are filing for unemployment benefit insurance. that is helping stock futures gain a little bit. nothing to write home about but

it shows continued improvement there. when you look at people who have been filing for claims over four weeks and that would be people who have been out of a job obviously for a longer period of time, we're seeing the best result there that we have seen since early this spring. still bad in the employment picture, but getting slightly less worse, like everything else. two other things to share with all of but. first, we have 50 companies reporting earnings today, two are in the credit card industry. i thought this pretty much says it all -- the ceo of visa this morning on the back of much better than expected numbers which mastercard also just posted a moment ago, said this, "we are cautiously optimistic that things are getting somewhat better. not somewhat worse." i mean that's a ringing endorsement, isn't it, barnicle? >> erin, you said just a few seconds ago about the jobless claims, nothing to write home about. i think you have to update and say nothing to tweet home about because nobody writes anymore. >> i don't do this tweet thing.

>> good. >> i don't know how to do 140 characters. yeah, nothing to tweet home about. you know, everyone's talking about when the president yesterday mentioned the cover of a magazine that said the recession is over? and obviously you have to start somewhere. but the reality is that at the end of the year we are going to get a big growth number. last year the economy virtually stopped. by virtue of it having a pulse this year you'll get growth compared to last year. but is that really the end of a recession? >> we have a pulse so we're doing well. the body is warm. >> yeah, so we're alive. maybe that is something to celebrate. but to trump it and say things are all of a sudden great and the recession is over and we'll go back to the way we were, just doesn't seem appropriate. >> where's grumpy today? >> he's out getting a cup of coffee, i think. of the company that shall not be named. >> you committed blasphemy this

morning by holding up that cup. erin burnett, thanks so much. we'll see you on down the road. >> we love erin. coming up next, oscar award winning director of "an inconvenient truth," david guggenheim with a new prelim that looks at the rock 'n' roll lifestyles of three guitar heroes. keep it on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. nothing beats walmart's unbeatable prices... but now they have new areas where i can find the brands i use every day-- and ve even more. so that's what they mean by unbeatable. save money. live better. walmart. has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card.

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a guitar has a lot of sustain on it. i said can you get that? and he went away and came back with this phenomenal thing.

distortion pedal which overloads a signal. it makes it sound pretty rude. >> wow. that was a clip of guitar god jimmy page playing for a pretty good audience, a new documentary about three generations of guitar geniuses. with us the film's director, he won an as score for "the inconvenient truth," david guggenheim. great to have you with us today. also joining us, courtney hazlett of msnbc.com, "the scoop." tell us how you got these three guys together. >> begging. it was like dreaming your dream people together. jimmy page from led zeppelin, the edge from u2, jack white in a summit. they came together. instead of me asking the

questions they asked each other question. first song, jimmy page picks up his guitar and plays "whole lotta love." to see the edge melt and say "i dant believe this." it was pretty good. >> when this trailer first hit the internet, some friends of mine said this is so cool, we started e-mailing back and forth, is page the best guitarist or is it the edge? other people were weighing in. is there ever a discussion behind the scenes, which one of us is better? this e-mail chain went on for hours literally, but don't tell my boss. >> there are so many great guitarists. but jimmy page is pretty great but the edge is something different, he has all these machines. he's like a mad scientist. jack white, i saw him ot roxy in l.a. with jimmy page playing, he's pretty great too. >> you go to u2 concert and many people's minds, mine included, the concert sort of stops when the edge comes out and does like a three, four-minute riff all by

himself at the edge of the stage. is his talent god-given, is it the ability to hit a baseball and some people are just separated from others because of hand-eye coordination? is it just god-given? >> you are asking the essential question. that's what this movie's about actually. because we go to places where they started an they wrote their first songs. you realize they're just like us. jack was an upholsterer in detroit. at the end of the day they'd move their couches aside and start playing. the edge is a guy from dublin just pissed off that they're playing bad music. he and his friends, bono, larry and adam, at 16 said "we want to do a band." they had a punk band. >> david has a question. my son and i last week were debating who the greatest guitarists were ever. i always come down on the side

of jimi hendrix because i always say to my son it is as if he were dropped on earth from another planet. but my son came up with a fascinating name. i want to ask you why you went with the edge for this sort of middle tier. instead of the name my son came up which, which was eddie van halen who, as far as influence goes, started doing things in the 1980s that really did influence a generation of guitarists. would you say the edge is more influential than eddie van halen? >> first of all, we wanted jimi hendrix but he wasn't available. i did my research. there are a lot of great people. eric clapton. eddie van halen was picking with his left hand when he started. no one did that before. he was unbelievable. this isn't about everybody. in the end they all come and play this led zeppelin song, not going to say what it is.

they all jam on this one song and you just can't believe it. the next movie tomorrow could be eddie van halen, slash, jeff beck. there is something about the guitar that's just american. >> when you're that good, you don't need your fans almost. your work will live on. you can pretty much do anything you want. what's the connection like with their fans? like how do you stay in a relationship with an audience when you're just that good? did they shed any light on that or are they just up in their own guitar world doing their own thing. >> jimmy page has never done a documentary. he's maybe given two interviews and they're like this. this is the first time in 40 years he's come out and said, i'm going to tell my story. so i was like -- he's asking me to tell his story. >> and in this movie, you hear -- he was a session player. he wasn't a rock guy. he was a session player. he did jingles, he did the background for "goldfinger."

he sang o on a kinks album. one day he shows up. he was in the yardbirds, and then led zeppelin. >> do these guys grow up like listening to buddy guy, the way kids try to mimic this? >> jimmy takes us into his home, into his record collection. he plays us his favorite albums. out of nowhere he starts air guitaring. when he air guitars, we slowed it down. his fingers are perfect. you think of all the kids, this movie you get to see jimmy page air guitar. >> joe's jumping. >> i just want to ask, david, i am really glad -- you're right, you can pick hundreds of guitarists but i'm glad you picked jimmy page. when you look at the rock pantheon of greats, we talk about the beatles, rolling

stones, the who, dylan. somehow led zeppelin always gets left out. you think jimmy page and zeppelin might be getting the respect from critics that eluded them for decades? >> first, i'm very happy to see your son is cool. what's great in the movie, in the fourth album which they had "stairway to heaven," all these classic led zeppelin songs, the leading london newspaper gave them a one-paragraph review. they hated it. even after four albums, the critics hated led zeppelin. maybe that's the sign of a great band. but i think -- your son probably knows this, kids now are listening to led zeppelin. there are other big bands that they just don't listen to. led zeppelin has this timeless sound to it, still raw and relevant today. i think u2, too. these guys are just -- and jack white has the dead weather which i saw, it is unbelievable. >> by the way, i've got to throw this in, david. the greatest guitar sound, ever,

came when jimmy page was doing something bizarre with the wawa pedal in "whole lotta love," then he rips down there. he really -- jimmy page did some things technically also that other guitarists hadn't done before him. right? >> you just showed a clip where he has to go -- he hears this dirty sound. he calls it a dirty sound from an album they heard on the chess catalog from these dirty blues. he finds a friend from the british navy to make that little box. it's called the thug box. that made it sound dirty. you hear that on this track you're playing right now. >> david, are you saying that jimmy page, which by the way, the fuzz box. '70s and '80s when i played, the last refuge for the truly bad guitarist. are you telling me i should

thank jimmy page for the fuzz box? >> i'm a big stones fan so i would have loved to see keith richards. but i understand it is very expensive to put subtitles on a film. >> you said it, not me. >> you can't do it. >> plus, you can't wake him up for the shoot. that's a mess. >> ga david guggenheim, "it might get loud." it is getting a lot of buzz. check it out. thanks. courtney, thank you, too. more "morning joe" in a moment. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

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