welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we've learned today. willie geist, you think keith richards should have been in that list? i love what pete townsend once said of keith richards -- this was like in the late '80s. he said the guy still hasn't learned how to tune his guitar. could be a problem. >> well, he's doing all right for himself.

i'm sure he's not worried about that critique. i learned i'm going to see the movie for sure and keith richards was left out more for practical reasons with subfonts and all that sort of stuff. >> i learned that joe's son is cool. that's surprising to me. >> why would that surprise you, david? you hurt me. >> courtney? >> i'm probably going to be talking about this movie all day. i mean that literally. i can't wait for it to come out. >> lawrence? >> i learned that courtney plays the guitar. >> very cool. >> i learned that never ask willie about activity between a horse and a man. i missed that part. >> i could see the question mark in your eyes, kids, who was link ray. >> no. don't want to get into it here. >> i really do. seriously, i've got to say i learned something i did not know in my 25, 30 years of playing

guitar, that i have jimmy page to thank for the fuzz box. that's big news, kids. hey, willie, if it's way damn too early and brian williams is talking about meth, what time is it? >> he did do that. it's "morning joe." right now we turn it over to our friend, dylan radican. it's time for the "morning meeting." the meeting gets under way once again. i am dylan ratican. in just a few hours, harvard scholar henry louis gates and the officer who arrested him with be having a beer with the president. is this indeed race relations 3.0? we talk with the reverend jesse jackson on where we go from here. a custody deal in the works for michael jackson's children. breaking news. but is it a custody deal in the interest of the kids? remember our doctor conversation, health care conversation, where we said, listen, is the system in the interest of the patient? well, is this deal in the interest of those children?

does overweight, lead to being overtired, overtired lead to being sick? the results it would have new studies on obesity and sleep loss in america today. and, is the gop poised for a 2010 comeback in congress? to make 1994 look paltry. historical study out of a news nbc news/wall street poll raises provocative questions and conversation on 2010. it is 9:00 a.m. pull up a chair, have a seat. nice to see you. "morning meeting" begins right now. at white house, nbc news mi. >> reporter: the teachable moment will happen at 6:00 this evening right outside the oval

office on the south lawn of the white house. we think it will be at a picnic table that we often see out there. but some people think there should be four people sitting down. in addition to sergeant crowley, professor gates and the president of the united states, that's lucille waylen. she called 911. people assumed it was because she said she saw two black men break into a house. that's not what she said at all. yesterday at a press conference she was very emotional. >> people called me a racist and said i caused all the turmoil. now that the tapes are out, i hope people can see that i tried to be careful and honest with my words. >> reporter: another voice getting involved in this controversy right now, that's the attorney general, eric holder. he is an african-american. he says he's been racially profiled in driving between new york and washington, pulled over, asked to open his trunk to see if he had any weapons inside. this is the individual who just a few months ago famously said

we are a nation of cowards when it comes to race. here's what he said on knight li "nightline" last night. >> you have two individuals i suspect that wish this thing had been resolved in a different way. >> have we reached the point where law enforcement is color blind? >> no, not yet. but i think we're certainly in a much better place than we were. >> reporter: finally, a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows a lot of ambiguity and ambivalence on the part of the american people, who's more at fault with the gates arrest. henry louis gates, 27% say he was more at fault. sergeant crowley, just 11%. both equally at fault. here's the plurality said they don't know enough. 31%. to even comment on the case. for the record, they'll be drinking blue moon, the request for wheat beer brewed here in the united states by sergeant crowley. professor gates, jamaican red

stripe. president of the united states, a good old bud light brewed by inbev. >> i like the fact the majority that don't know enough was the biggest number. of course you don't know enough, you weren't there! thank you, mike. joining me to discuss what will happen today and what may come out of it, reverend jesse jackson, the founder and president of the rainbow/push coalition and one of our nation's biggest civil rights leaders. reverend, welcome back to "the meeting." first off. give us a sense of what will happen today? a meeting of public reconciliation? how much of this is theater an what will actually happen in the conversation, if you will? >> well, it's kind of public-private reconciliation. here you have the case of professor gates who felt he was humiliated because he was in his own home and ultimately was not recognized and was handcuffed. officer crowley feels his orders were not honored, he was

offended. that becomes personal and then take on a life of its own. i think given the president's interest in it, his time and his interest, they will reconcile. my concern is that, however, does not deal in-depth with the issue of classic racial profiling, racial inequality an the law. the reality is in the health care there's real racial profiling, thus you have structural disparities of inequality. that must be the in-depth conversation. high infant mortality rate an shorter life expectancy. the subprime lending crisis was blacks and browns being targeted, and clustered. losing their homes. blacks and browns lost value in their homes and neighbors lost their value. the issue of race profiling is so painful and so hurtful and so costly, we now need real

commitment to enforce eeoc and contract compliance and the l s laws. >> if you look at everything you just said as the integration of race with society, race with economy, race with america in the 21st century, how do you take today's meeting and basically take the characterization you just offered and force a more complete conversation, a race 3.0 conversation, that's not just, well, what about slavery and what about black and white and voting and the very linear problems that have been tremendous and overcome by people like yourself and others, and now the more systemic aspects that you just spoke of. how do you address those in a way that's productive for the country? >> dr. king said you detect an injustice, you pass law, enforce and -- for example, if mrs. rosa

parks and mr. blame, the bus driver who had her arrested, if they'd had a summit with the governor or the president, that would have been a good meeting. it would not have addressed the pub welcome accommodations and need for the right to vote. that involved heavy lifting to close that gap. so in some sense beyond the meeting today, the role of the department of justice and the secretary of labor and other departments of government have a big role to play. many of the banks that got stimulus money still engage in race profiling, in part the subprime lending crisis, a suit came out in chicago led by lisa mat gan where black and browns making $100,000 a year got subprime loans, whites making $50,000 got prime loans. you see, the racist factor in housing, lending, health care. >> i want to interrupt you for a second. because i would argue that the problems that you speak of

originate really with education. in other words, because we have such a disparity in education in this country, that it then leads to the roads and opportunity for the roads to spread farther apart as our 4 year-olds become 8 year-olds and our 8 year-olds become 12 year-olds, then that may lead well to the things you're describing. but am i wrong in looking at education? >> i'm not sure -- if you buy a home and you are targeted because you are black or brown and pay more for less, you are educated. you have a job but you aren't protected by fair lending laws. that's where the law must be enforced and funded in order to -- president barack says social inequality. how do you structure equality, enforcing laws that close that gap? that may be equal opportunity laws, fair lending laws, contract compliance laws. in other words the government itself must act to even the

playing field for all americans. >> i think that's one of the great frustrations for everybody having watched what the government did last fall with aig in basically delivering the capital of this nation to the use of our banking system and not exacting any terms from the banks, allowing the banks to keep their winnings from those lottery tickets while using national capital to do it. how important is it -- >> that was the ultimate sin to me. that these banks which were guilty of racial targeting in their lending, or in not le lending, they got this bailout money without any linkage to ending that in america. >> or clawbacks for the money they made speculating with national capital. we'll be on this one for days and years and months to come. it was a crime committed as far as i can tell. if obama -- >> indeed. >> if obama has a victory on race -- noerd, if obama can walk away from this feeling empowered, feeling that he truly found a positive in a negative,

that this was a terrible event, an aggravation for these men, and an indication of a much broader issue in this country between the police and black men, and black men in general and their relationship with the power structure, all of this. if obama can score a victory and walk away with a feeling of usc on th success on this how much will it help him in dealing with the banks and dealing with health care? >> i don't know. he did not shy away from a good righteous fight. if it reconciles dr. gates, dr. crowl crowley, they will come out tonight in some sense of reconciliation. my concern is that the media is so focused on the president and the police and the professor and the lady who made the call, they are less interested in dealing with the issue of the structural inequality that drives the gap

based upon a race profiling by institutions that in fact should be deterred from doing so by enforcement of the law. >> your point is that there are many aspects of that particularly whether it is banking or health care, or for that matter education. i would say that are systemic. now we have to deal with systemic flaws. this is clearly one of them. reverend jackson, thank you so much for the time. enjoy your day. reverend jesse jackson talking race, health care, the economy an everything else here at "the meeting." >> it was an interview we taped about an hour ago before this program got under way. back live here in the studio. with us, toure on set, jonathan capehart back in d.c. good morning. >> we are also awaiting the arrival of nate silver from 538.com who does some of the most interesting analysis of our population based on just who's getting older, who's getting younger. we'll talk with nate in just a minute. have you a very interesting thought here, comment i guess, on obama's relevancy to race relations and how it actually may be a hindrance here.

>> this beer summit that we're going to get today makes me feel queasy. yesterday when it was an idea i thought it was great, but today that it's here, i'm like i feel weird about this. sergeant crowley made a bad arrest. no crime is listed in the police report. he gets to go to the white house, stand on equal footing, toe-to-toe, with gates and obama as if they are morally equal. they're not equal in this situation at all. it seems to me the problem is that the president is not in a position to be able to just protect black people, because then he seems to be overprotecting or preferring black people. the president cannot be preferring black people as we did with the iac. so -- we are all pen liesed as black people because he cannot help us, he cannot reach out to us in the same way. >> on the other hand though, never before has there been obviously a black man in the white house who is in a position

to step forward and say, yes, i have been in this situation, i can sympathize with this issue in a way that no other -- >> no other president has been able to do that. he's now able to take this situation, irrespective of whether crowley belongs there or anybody else, and try and push us into the next generation of race conversation. >> but at the end of the day, the three of them come together equally. does crowley apologize for making a bad arrest? i don't understand -- is not a man's home his castle? >> all aside, do we do our -- in other words, to indulge that emotion which is entirely valid, distracts us from the opportunity. >> i think it's good for the country to come together this way. but black people are being penalized, giving somebody who made a bad arrest a more -- equal moral ground with these other people. >> i think we need to step forward from trying to figure out who's going to apologize and whether they're going to

apologize, if someone's going to show contrition or anything like that. i think the fact that you have sergeant crowley, professor gates and the president meeting at the white house to at least visually -- maybe when they have this meeting personally get beyond sort of the emotion and the fireworks around this and to really sit down and talk. i feel like i sound like a broken record, but if what happens out of this meeting is that we have these three people, they start talking, and then they keep talking once they leave the white house gates, then that's a major accomplishment. and dylan, i think you are absolutely right, this president is probably the one person who is incredibly suited to have this conversation, to hold this meeting, and, remember -- >> one thing, i think you would agree, what happens here is that the president called crowley's action stupid. that backed crowley into a

corner where he did not have a chance to apologize because he's too humiliated and in apologizing he's admitting he was stupid. all the policemen in the country have to come together behind him and say, hey, we cannot back down now. so the president calling him stupid forced this moment. >> the policeman made it pretty clear he wasn't going to apologize. before the president made his surprise appearance in the white house briefing room, both professor gates an sergeant crowley were talking a lot of smack about each other, and about what happened. and the president got involved. but when the president stepped into that briefing room, a lot of the heat and the pressure went down and i think this meeting today is going to be actually a very good thing. i'm not queasy about it at all. i think it's going to be terrific. >> the thing is that in law enforcement, it's known that you get arrested for failing the attitude test. when you show too much attitude to a police officer.

but having a bad attitude especially in your own home in the midst of a bad arrest is not a crime. >> i don't think anybody even disputes that. i think the -- >> it's the 27% who blame professor gates dispute that. and the 29% who say both equally at fault. >> i agree but i still believe there is a meaningful percentage of this country that seize the opportunity. i think that same principle can apply to whether it is political expediency and indulgence in health care, political expediency and indulge against with the banks. some people stole that money and we'll never get that money back. our choice is to go nuts trying to get the money back from these guys gambling with national capital and keeping the money, or we can say the heck with them, we'll now demand an improvement of the american system so this sort of yeehaw behavior is diminished. >> we have to bring people to justice. >> i agree with you but we also

have to improve the system so that these types of injustices are diminished. i think everybody's making different points that are valid across the board but the opportunity moving forward in my opinion is what i just described. your points i don't diminish in the slightest. contessa, what else is going on? we have a news exclusive for nbc. a deal's been reached in the michael jackson custody case. nbc's jeff rossen in burbank. what do you have, jeff? >> reporter: hi, contessa. nbc news has learned from a source that's very close to this deal that there is in fact a custody agreement now in place between katherine jackson and the biological mother of the two oldest children, paris and prince. here's how it goes. here are the details for you. katherine jackson, michael's mother, gets custody of the children. debbie rowe gets visitation. in exchange, she agrees not to make a claim for custody. but we're told she wants to build a meaningful relationship with the kids. also in the agreement, she will not give up her parental rights. rowe will not give up her

parental rights and she will not get any money for this deal, either. as you know, there's been a lot of talk about whether debbie rowe is going to get money to bow out of this. she's not getting a dime beyond the spousal agreement already in place. so this will begin as soon as a judge approves it. they'll bring it to court here in los angeles. on monday morning. it is seen as a formality. once again, nbc news learns there is now a custody deal in place, katherine jackson will get custody of these children. in the next hour of "the meeting," is this custody deal good for children. we'll talk with a psychologist at 10:15 a.m. a short time ago the labor department said unemployment claims from newly laid off workers climbed by 25,000 people last week to 584,000 new claims. that was a little more than expected. ongoing unemployment claims fell for the third straight week to 6.2 million people. that's what we have right now,

dylan. >> is this custody deal good gort kids? katherine jackson is an amazing person. love her raising the kids. however, in her autobiography she claims children should be corporally punished up to the age of 15! >> what part of "next hour" is confusing to you? >> i'm not a numbers guy. i'm a words guy. much more ahead on "the morning meeting." is the president losing his war on domestic priority? the polling data is not trend g ing his way. we have a report card from one of the smartest statistical analyses of the obama undertaking. nate silver from 538.com. overweight, leading to overtired, leading to oversick. we break down two new studies on the "morning meeting." you want to manage health care costs, you also need to manage the patient's health prior to that conversation.

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good morning, everyone. i'm contessa brewer. there's progress being made in both the house and senate on health care reform. the group of financially conservative members of congress, the blue dog democrats, with a deal -- the plan of public option and the possibility of co-ops allowing people to choose between private insurers. any flute vote on the house bill won't come until at least september. the deal has sparked a rebellion among liberals in congress. nancy pelosi gives her weekly update later this morning.

we'll be watching for her reaction. in the senate, a bipartisan group in the finance committee is praising a plan they say will cost $900 billion, cover 95% of americans and be fully paid off within a decade. but the idea of a public option appears to be off the table in this particular plan. it looks like the president might be losing the message war in the health care reform. our brand-new nbc news/wall street poll shows just 41% approve of how the president is handling health care reform. by the way, that's nearly identical to bill clinton's scores from 1994 when he failed to get congress to pass his ideas on overhauling health care system. so what is the problem with the health care conversation. in other words, why is it not more constructive? i've asked nate silver to join us who is the creator and proprietor of a website called 538.com, recently graded the president on how the democrats

are handling the health care push. in addition to the website being called 538.com, it actually provides a service which is incredibly powerful statistical analysis. i think you will find it very insightful. it is what we are actually doing. i'll move quickly through your list. you have five. you say basically five keys to success on health care reform. that's basically a communication strategy more than anything else. what will be consequences of this reform for everybody. you give him an "f." >> they don't really have a bill yet. you have three different committees in the house that all have bills. the public's confused. when they're a moving target it works to their disadvantage because we taking serious the msnbc poll and people don't

really know what's in this program. >> when you see that people are explained what you're getting out of the bill, they actually like it, number jump over 50%. clearly the president is not doing enough to communicate what we're getting. >> number two, build a narrative around taking power away from the insurance companies and giving it to the people. this sounds like ron wyden to me. >> yeah, a little bit. >> you give the president a d-plus on that narrative. >> there's been very little of that. it seemed like it was more john edwards' thing or hillary clinton's thing. obama didn't want to be the populist. >> i feel like if you ask anybody with a health care plan why their health care plan makes it better for patients, you can get a lot of good answers. >> dylan, i have a question for nate. remember during the president's press conference on wednesday i thought he spent a lot of time

hammering away at insurance companies. you think that was too little, too late in terms of your grading? it just wasn't effective? >> i think part of the problem, think it is a little maybe overexposed right now. i think there are too many press conferences and not enough's filtering through to your average evening news viewer. what people at home might get, i don't think they don't know what's really going on. >> the problem with the choice plans, like the wyden plan which i like a lot, free market principles like it, people don't understand i don't want to make all my health care decisions. he's saying i want you to be able to go to the internet and bid on the best possible health insurance plan known to man. if the mayo clinic has a better health insurance plan and toure wants to buy it out of his house in brooklyn, why should he not be able to do that? three, president and reform advocates have to explain concretely the changes that will mean lower costs. you give them an "f." >> here's the problem. there are parts of the bill that

will expand coverage and those are going to cost money. i think he has to be honest with people and say, yes, this is a worthy, admirable goal. we'll cover almost anyone and it is going to cost more money. we'll save a little bit on the back end with cost production especially in the long term but he has to separate those two things out. people hear cost reduction, then hear it will cost $1 trillion, your taxes might go up. >> particularly when you're $14 trillion for the fed, want another trillion for health care. >> people get so fatigued with the numbers. like bailout, things like this. >> four and five -- >> is the bailout situation part of this psychologically -- we've been given all this information about we need to be bailed out and all this money's going in, then the people don't see anything. here we go again. government's doing a big plan. >> it wasn't really a bailout. remember what happened? wall street figured out a way to speculate with capital they didn't have, money they didn't

have. and then they figured out a way to cash in all the winning lottery tickets from that speculation and stick the bill for all the losing lottery tickets for that speculation with the american people. which is why i believe when we supported aig on september 14th last year is when the theft occurred. we did not demand terms. >> are we distrustful of government with our money with these big programs because we don't feel good about what happened with the bailout. now here they come again with a major change of everything which leads to nate's fourth point, by the way. >> here we go -- show all voters an seniors there are benefits for them. where are the benefits for them, toure? what's the deal? and included prescription drugs. you give them a d-minus. do i this for time management.

all these points should be maybe with the dominant framework that continuing the status quo is unacceptable and unsustainable. this is the one place you gave him a better than passing grade, a b-plus. >> people say we need some kind of reform. they might not be sincere, but everyone agrees we need some sort of change. the question is what it is. the concept is populist in the abstract. details themselves are popular but it just isn't all meshing together in the right way. >> as more people understand what these plans do, is it patient driven, is it protecting insurance companies, hopefully as people get clarity this will start to filter out. i think you're fantastic. i appreciate the work you do. i hope other people go to your website and benefit from it. >> this is one of the most important influential websites on the -- >> again you're not playing hatfields and mccoys. you're playing what's actually going on with people.

i appreciate that. continued success. straight ahead here on the "morning meeting," back on overweight, overtired -- getting on overweight, overtired. is lack of sleep making us sick? yes. at least two studies point out as much. why is it that we need so many drugs to go to bed in the first place? we'll have that conversation in a minute. ♪ i am stuck on band-aid® brand ♪ ♪ 'cause germs don't stick on me! ♪ only band-aid® brand plus antibiotic waterproof... has antibiotic ointment directly on the pad. and now it's00% waterproof. one-step infection protection from the brand you trust. ♪ 'cause band-aid® helps heal me! ♪ ouch! ow! oops! it'seo to go!® ready. aim. protect. neosporin® gives you infection-protection, and pain relief. neo to go!® plus pain relief. every cut. every time. everywhere. the $100 cream.

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good thursday, everyone. investigators found a baby alive after being ripped from her murdered mom's womb. a suspected baby thief is in police custody. darlene hains was 8 months pregnant when she was killed this past weekend. a friend reported the suspect to the police because she was suspicious the woman's actually delivered the baby girl. police won't say whether the suspect actually cut open with the mom but she was found with the child and police say she

knew the mother. >> i can't really get into the specifics of that because this investigation is still very much ongoing and we're only talking a couple days into the investigation. so there is still a lot of work to be had here. clearly it was key that we found this infant. >> the baby girl's doing fine and she's with her aunt. temperatures keep on climbing in the pacific northwest today. 103 degrees yesterday in seattle, the hottest temperature since the city first started keeping records in 1891. portland, oregon hit 106 degrees. one degree shy of a record there. again most of those folks don't have big air conditioners like they do in other parts of the country. the cdc held a conference on obesity in aspen this week and top officials determined we're never going to get health care spending under control without getting americans to trim their waistlines. look at some of these numbers. according to the cdc, $147 billion a year in health care spending can be tied to obesity. if you do the math, it means that an obese person spends an average of $1,500 more per year

than someone at a healthy weight. get this -- the american cancer society says it costs $93 billion a year to treat cancer. imagine, if you took that money, it would go to the more important fight if we could get the obesity epidemic under control. >> indeed. >> big money. >> is it too much corn? is it too little sleep? too much sugar? we don't know exactly why obesity has exploded the way that it has in this country but we'll try and find out. here to talk about it, a harvard-trained doctor who specializes in sleep medicine at uhk's medical center in cleveland, san jay patel. doctor, what is the tie between sleep and obesity? >> there's been a number of studies that have demonstrated people who tend to sleepless on average are at higher risk overtime of gaining weight at a

faster rate or becoming obese. >> why? >> some data suggests that their hormonal changes with poor sleep result in the brain not getting enough signals to stop eating. >> if you were to -- i actually in the middle of the night get a lot of signals to start eating, honestly. i get out of bed, i get 2,000 calories at 2:00 in the morning if i'm not careful. what do you see as variables? we'll have the sleep conversation, if i tie sleep in, i tie diet in, tie in all the variables you're surely more familiar with than i, how do you even begin to answer the question? >> i don't think there's a simple answer that it's just sleep or it's just what we're eating. it is a combination of our diet, our exercise, what we're doing in terms of paying attention to our health. >> how much of it is about the american culture which is always about super size me, give you a ton of food with a ton of butter

and a ton of salt on it and every restaurant you go to, they're trying to give you as much as you possibly can, rather than in europe you get smaller portions. >> oh, "rather than in europe," huh? >> no. it certainly is a bigger -- obesity is a bigger problem in the u.s. than other parts of the world. but sort of the western lifestyle is spreading around the world and we're seeing problems with obesity in developing nations, in africa, asia and other places. it's not just an american thing. we're clearly seeming to be leading the charge. >> how much sleep do you get, nate? >> not enough. when i sleepless, i tend to have less appetite. >> i'm afraid to go to sleep for fear i'll wake up a few hours later an eat everything in the refrigerator. i have a different problem. toure, you get a lot of sleep? >> no, i got two little kids. that's not a lot of sleep. but i try to get enough. you know that the amount of sleep is exactly part of how

much you learn. the more sleep you get, the smarter you're going to be. like even a 15-minute difference per night can make a huge difference. >> i don't know if the doctor agrees with that. >> oh, no, there's studies. >> dylan, can i ask the doctor a question? >> do whatever you darn well please, jonathan. >> doctor, actually, how many hours of sleep should we actually get? everyone keeps saying you need to have eight hours to be fully functioning, blah blah blah. i get six and i seem to do just fine, i think. is that too little? >> there's quite a var yabiabil and how much sleep you need. but most people need seven to eight hours to function optimally. some people can function well with five or six hours but the truth is they'd function even better if they got more sleep. the big problem is i think in teenagers where they probably need more like nine hours of sleep and they're just not getting it. >> but american culture is sort

of antisleep. like if you say i sleep eight, nine hours, you're a lose you are. somebody like puffy says sleep is for losers. that's printed at the front of bad boy. he proudly says i sleep four hours a night. who can be more provetive than puff daddy? >> doctor, last question. sleep deprivation and life expectancy. how direct is the correlation and how violent is the differencefy sleep a lot or a little over the course of my life? >> there have been probably about 25 or 30 studies now that we get the same findings no matter who we study that the less you sleep below seven hours the higher your risk of dying. and it seems to be related to a whole bunch of things, cardiovascular -- >> the less you sleep, the greater your risk of dieing? >> yes. >> puffy, you're on notice. >> you tell your man puffy what he can do with his bumper sticker. okay? doctor, thank you very much. appreciate it.

coming up here at the "morning meeting," the gates racial profiling case sparking another arrest. we'll talk about that. also an amazing story of a woman who was rescued, toure, by a beluga whale. the truth is we found out not only in the new jersey organ ring or bail bailout, this tends to be stranger than fiction. the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber. but now they have new areas where i can find the brands i use every day-- and save even more. so that's what they mean by unbeatable. save money. live better. walmart.

welcome back. plugging in to politics, what's going on? >> just when we thought a meeting with the president and sergeant crowley and professor gates will resolve everything? a boston cop got arrested because he sent an e-mail to a local paper calling for professor gates -- i don't know if i should say this -- a jungle

monkey. >> hang on? >> if i were the officer, he, professor gates, verbally assaulted like a banana eating jungle monkey, i'd have sprayed him in the face with oc. the man's called a cancer by the police department and is placed on leave. >> this is an unrelated boston cop sent this e-mail to a boston paper but he chose to introduce himself as -- okay. >> yeah. thank you for contributing to the conversation. appreciate that. now, on -- >> he has a strong preference -- go ahead. on the issue of cops passing off these disorderly conduct charges, apparently this week in washington, d.c., d.c. police arrested a lawyer, a gay lawyer, who had said very loudly that he doesn't like the police. apparently in the arrest he was called a horrible slur, gay slur, and arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. why? because he had said outloud that he doesn't like the police. a gay man, well respected in the community of washington, d.c.,

well known, again arrested. he was released with like $35 for the fee and he says he'll fight it in court. but the question is, do cops use disorderly conduct then to shut up people? is this just a blanket charge that they pass off? we'll have more on this later. >> they use it with me all the time, i got to say. >> really? >> no. >> dylan -- disorderly conduct. shut it. >> you're asking the questions. we'll get the answers. take a break. lots more ahead here on the "morning meeting." including the custody deal worked out for michael jackson's three children. the terms of the deal and if the kids are the priority or not. is this a deal made for those children or is this a deal made for somebody else. guys... the blue goes on the left. (announcer) getting ready for the big game? ohhhh... bring it. bounty extra soft-- the bounty with a little extra softness! it's super absorbent.

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like our seven ounce house sirloin or oriental chicken salad. genuine food. generous portions. genius price. 2 for $20! only at applebee's. welcome back. quick "morning meeting" follow-up here. a new effort by congress to learn more about who and what led to the u.s. financial meltdown specifically again.

when we delivered national capital, access to national capital by the trillions, $14 trillion at the fed, $2 trillion at the treasury, and did not demand terms from the banking system at the time we did that last fall, the "wall street journal" reports there is now a senate panel into looking at whether fraud by some of our big banks played a role. goldman sachs, deutsche bank, washington mutual have all been subpoenaed to see whether they identified the flaws in the system of that aig insurance scheme early, and either exploited it or did nothing about it. the investigation focusing on again those risky mortgage-related securities that were central. remember what they did is they just extracted the value of the homes, used it as a giant casino chip. the winners stayed with wall street, losers went to america. the senate basically wants to know whether the banks were publicly singing the praises of these investments while privately raising doubts about their safety. our second follow-up, comes

from the irs. wealthy tax chief, surprise, surprise, are coming clean as the government goes coming clean, why they go off. interesting. when the daypayer of the function tofg society. even for those on the wall street. the irs says it's been inundated by folks who are looking to basically get back in line before the clemency expires in september. in exchange for giving themselves up. the tax evaders face reduced penalties. fun with money. the whole game of who's the richest, kind of got us into trouble. anyway, still to come on this thursday "morning meeting," a woman busted for operating a strip club, but at a peculiar location, i guess we'll call that a tease. we're back with that. gates, michael jackson's

children and a revolution in the making for 2010, congress does not rate well with this country. we'll have the conversation coming up. [ female announcer ] we were flattered when regenerist beat the $100 cream. flabbergasted when we creamed the $700 cream! for under $30 regenerist micro-sculpting cream hydrates better than 32 of the world's most expensive creams. fantastic. phenomenal. regenerist.

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all right. welcome back. we're going to pick up on everything from, again the congressional revolution in the

making, michael jackson's children, race relations, health care. but first, let's discuss something -- >> slightly more decadent. >> something that indulges our desire just to be entertained. >> are you ready for this? georgia police go to lawrenceville home. they get a report, it's a strip club. a man gets there, yeah, they're everywhere. this can't happen. the cops go in, what do they find, a bunch of rowdy teenagers. it was a party that got out of mand. dancers in the garage. apparently the lady was selling jell-o shots to kids. i think back in college -- i can't even recall it -- ready for this one, naughty librarians.

i'm told there are some men who have pictures in their hand of naughty librarian. apparently it can raise money. in texas, librarians are getting together and they're showing off their tattoos. >> do you have these pictures of these things? >> imagine me -- >> that's already happening. >> these are -- all right. carry on. >> thank you for calling for them. they're stripping down for this calendar, it benefits the texan librarians disaster relief fund. >> those are not librarians, by the way, those are partially naked women. >> this is the best story of the day. you know, remember, old yeller and these animals that saved people. lassie. how about a beluga -- a beluga whale saved a diver she was in a

competition, they get down to the bottom of the pool, in arctic freezing temperatures. apparently the weather was so cold, it paralyzed her legs. she started panicking. >> because, you entered a contest to try to hold your breath at the bottom -- >> no it was an arctic pool, 20 feet deep. at polar land in china the beluga whale sees that her in trouble, gets underneath her feet and lifts her to the surface, saving her life. >> that is just sweet. >> animals are just good. >> they should make a new tv show based on the flipper model. >> let's call zucker after the show. we have the bat phone over there. thank you very much. still ahead in the second hour of the "morning meeting," who's the real victim in this gates' case.

gates, crowley, or the woman who called 911? you know the conversation. plus, the custody battle over michael jackson's three children, appears to be over a breakdown of the deal and was it done in the children's interest? do we make decisions that are in the interest of the children or not? we'll have that conversation coming up. at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can book travel plans faster, check my account balances faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than andy rodck. (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" "and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free". doors for yourndoorer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" cat.

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gates, crowley or the woman who called death threats for calling # 11. let's get the news before we get to conversation. nbc exclusive, a new custody deal involving michael jackson's two oldest children and the woman who gave up all rights for them for money. is this good or bad for the kids? how do you make decisions like this? probably the worst one anyone has to make. we'll talk about it. could be a revolution in the making in this country politically. our poll shows public opinion is not happy. i would go so far as to say, very happy with the job congress's doing in representing the people. could that give the gop an opening for 2010? the winds of change are a-blowing. join the "morning meeting." it's nice to see you.

all right. tonight, a happy hour con ver asiant at white house, no less the president, harvard professor, agent crowley, you know the gang, they're all in attendance. mike has the details. >> reporter: dylan, that teachable moment is upon us. it's going apparently going to last 90 seconds, how long the cameras will be allowed the chronicles the three involved. sitting just outside the oval office. we understand having that beer first suggestsed by sergeant crowley. you mentioned the fourth individual that plays into this drama. and that is the woman who called 911. many people called her a racist, she got the death threats you talked about, yesterday she had a press conference with her attorney to defend hirs. >> the three highly trained guys who reacted badly, are getting together for a beer at the white house. i'm proud to introduce you to the one person who didn't

overreact. >> i was called racist and i was a target of scorn and ridicule and never occurred to me that the way i reported what i saw, be analyzed by an entire nation. >> reporter: a poll out last night, dylan reports the following, who's more at fault in the gates arrest? 27% henry lewis gates. sergeant crowley a mere 11%. both equally at fault, 29% and don't know enough, 31%. a controversy brewing, as you might say, in washington, about the choice of beverages. the jamaican beer chose by professor gates.

and blue moon owned by coors and molson. now we got politicians on capitol hill saying, wait a minute, how about sam adams? believe it or not, that's the the largest american owned beer company left. >> mike, who's the real victim here? again, where do we go from here, in improving the friendships and improving the understanding, all of the things that we talk about. toure is back with us. nate silver here for the two hours. i would like to introduce into the conversation, michael gainer, a retired nypd homicide detective. nice to see you. the first thought that pops into your head as you watch this drama play out and if i ask you the question, how do i make this drama useful to you and the

police force? >> maybe this is what this meeting is going to be at the white house. >> i got a beluga whale i can show you later. >> and i got some bats to sell some bonds. >> you have a police sergeant who happens to teach racial profiling. a harvard professor, who seemingly believes he's been the victim of racial profiling and our first african-american president of the united states. when these three guys sit down with each other, they're going to be civil. i think some effort is going to be made to improve race relations in this country. i think it's improved tremendously over the years in my 40-year career in law enforcement. >> how do you some more of powder out of the keg.

in other words, if you look at this -- there's a feelings, the statistics back it up, the police feel they are in -- they're in threatening environment. they feel they're at risk while they're doing their job, as a culture, that creates heightened levels of tensions -- >> we have a situation where the police are not trusted in black communities, partly because of things they have done over generations and in recent years. that affects their ability to do their job. so, police officers' safety and ability to police, is affected by the reputation they create in situations like rodney king, like skip gates, what do they need to do to mend their own relationship with black communities? >> first of all, i think the relationship between the police and the black community the is really good.

they're very thrilled to have the police in their neighborhood. they cooperate with community patrols. >> that's not the experience that i have had over the past 38 years of my life just as a community. there's a list of names that every black person, a black man has in their head, sean bell, now skip gates joins that list. >> however, what about the hundreds of thousands of cases that you don't know the names of? the day this incident occurred, we buried a jersey the detective. a new york city cop was shot just the other day. these are where police officers get hurt, they get killed. they don't go home to their families. they leave orphaned children, widows. when police respond to a job, they never know what's inside.

if the police fail to investigate this case thoroughly, god knows what repper cushions this could have had. >> i have a complete respect for the job they're doing. most of time, when you're not committing a crime, you're very happy to see the police come. however there's an overzealous, an intimidation on part of certain cops. where we don't want to participate and we don't want to communicate. and we're not getting services because we don't want to participate in the job. >> go ahead, jonathan. >> back to your original question, who's your victim here, we're talking about four people the president, lucia whalen, sergeant crowley and of course professor gates, all good people who are caught up in an indianapolis dent that's a lot more complicated than we originally thought a week and

five days ago, what's happening here, professor gates is a victim because of the long history of abuse by cops. think crowley's a victim because of the tensions and lucia whalen a victim here, who was doing the right thing, calling 911 to get the police, because she thought a burglary was happening. she was describing potential persons here. she had abuse rained down upon her by people who didn't have all of the facts. i'm uncomfortable here saying who's more of a victim -- >> i agree with your assessment completely, jonathan. and acknowledging -- here's the tension, right? we all benefit from an

incredible police force that serves this country across the board. but, it's unequivocal, we benefit as a society from an incredible police force. not just the people, although the people are a factor, but the system, the fact, the way it works is to the benefit of this society. at the same time, there's the constant tension. an example, i get to host tv shows for a living. it's fun for me. i'll have very positive interactions with law enforcement around new york. then i'll take a week's vacation, unshaven, hairy and smelly, god help me, i'm sitting, my registration expired, i'll end up with a totally different interaction with law enforcement, which will partially be my fault. because i'll shoot my mouth off.

my point is, how do you reck siel for that tension, whether it's the fear of the police, oh, my god, i didn't do anything. whatever it is, a black man who feels fearful. the obvious aspects, thank you so much for helping us every day in ways we never see, they're both true. >> long question, i'll try to give you some short answers. >> go ahead. >> first of all the victims in this case happen to be the woman who called 911 and the fine men and women of the cambridge police department. >> how are they victims? >> because they have been insulted internationally because of doing something that was within their rights to do, perhaps squashed an incident that could have gone forward? none of us were there. eyewitnesses including people of color the only person out of

line that day, in public, was the good professor. >> the problem occurred -- >> get into your house, after a 13-hour trip, i don't blame him for yelling and carry on. he filed to comply. he left sergeant crowley with a decision to make. do i allow this to continue indefinitely? >> the problem occurred in the house. he was arrested the moment he gets on to the porch. there's no crime listed in the police report. the issue, the police ego. >> i'm out of time. >> nothing with the police's ego. >> tell me what we can do better so people are less fearful of the police and the police feelless -- >> twe would agree that the bes

thing could come out of this, that we can agree what our parents, when a police officer confronts you, comply, even if you disagree. on the scene, when the police ask you to do something, comply with the police and we'll all be better off. >> what can the police do better, in other words, in our exchange our agreeanec of complian compliance. >> sergeant crowley teaches this stuff, every police department in this country is sensitive to the needs of people from different communities, diverse communities. this is something that's been ingrained in police officer's heads since the early 1970s. >> nothing the police need to do better? >> there's always room for improvement. >> thank you, detective. appreciate the conversation.

thank you, toure. no beers needed? that's the beauty of conversation. up next, on the agenda for the second hour of the meeting, michael jackson's mother and ex-wife have reached a deal over the custody of those children? is it in the best interest of the children? talking custody coming up. we know why we're here. to redefine air travel for a new generation. to ensure our forces are safer and stronger. to take the world we share toomorrow and beyond. announcer: around the globe, the people of boeing are working together-- to make a difference. that's why we're here.

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all right. welcome back. toure was making the point we should have the jungle monkey conversation with the police officer who was just here. i say the jungle monkey

conversation, there was an e-mail from boston cop unrelated. >> sent nonly, jungle monkey as you said on twitter yesterday is the bet that max of racial slurs. >> he's not talking about it anymore because he's suspended. moving on. new details about a custody deal involving jackson's two oldest children. courtney on the beat with this one. what's the word. >> the word is, debbie rowe is not giving up parental rights. but she's not fighting for custody. she's not fighting for custody rights, meaning she wants to have the two oldest kids, prince and paris, in some sort of permanent basis, it gets her to know these biological children of her. we're told that the children know who she is. they have no substantive

relationship with her up to this point. >> what's the intention now? an emotional relationship between katherine jackson and the children they want to support or debbie rowe wants access. >> let's start with the financial aspect, there's basically none. the settlement with michael jackson and debbie rowe, that's off the tanl. katherine jackson has a fantastic relationship with these grandchildren of hers, she has custody of them. this isn't going to be a huge shakeup for them. this is not going to be, they spent tons of time with her. that's fantastic. what this boils down to, debbie says i have no relationship with these kids, i think it will be quite nice. >> hold on. she didn't care about her being her children. >> i don't know if you can say that.

maybe she did. >> hold on. hold on. >> we missed a part. jeff is here joining the conversation. professional psych lodgist. >> courtney, i thought debbie rowe formally gave up parental rights over the two children a long time ago, is that just rumor i'm -- >> no, she gave up basically all of her rights a long time ago. but they were given back to her. a judge said, i'm not sure this is the best interest for you. >> she went to the court and said, i renounce my rights to these children. where was her maternal need? she was willing to take millions of dallas to give away the children? >> the right decision for the right time. at that time, there was a

structure in place where those children were well taken care of, maybe things were different between her and michael. best for the kids at that time for that decision to be made. now, they have one 79-year-old guardian >> it was a financial arrangement, something that maybe you shouldn't have done. now the issue is, what's best for the kids? >> she was willing to give away her kids for millions of dollars. >> two minutes on the kids. >> at the end of the day, good for these kids, to know who their biological mother is, to have visitation with the biological mother even though they'll be in custody. rebbie, the oldest will be helping out, also. >> hold on. hold on.

what and where do people most screw up because of their own emotion, their own vindictiveness and ultimately screw up children in the process ofless extreme versions of this? any family situation? >> the answer is, when they put their needs ahead of the needs of the children, you have to hear what the kids want, what's in their best interest, we know they fit in very well with katherine and the rest of the jackson clan. >> at this age,s 12 and 11, are you reaching a more natural curiosity? if you're an adopted kid, you would be saying who's my parent? >> absolutely. now being proactive, everybody's

being proactive, they're saying we want you to know who your mother is, your mother wants to know who you are. toure, kids may say is this the same mother who sold us for money? i have worked with a lot of kids, no matter how parents have behaifd, they still have a affinity for that parent. >> understood. you got a couple of things, one on michael jackson and about, again, taking the explosive powder out of the powder keg that exists between cops and black men. >> things that you can do in order to not allow that situation to explode. >> thank you so much, courtney. you're staying.

>> we'll talk to you in just a second. still to come on this thursday edition of "morning meeting," no one reads poetry, we all know it better than william shatner and that includes the beautiful words of alaska governor sarah palin. >> mother nature wins and it is as throughout all alaska that big wild good life. teaming up along the road. >> reality is much better than anything anyone can make up. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

- oh, come on. - enough! you get half. and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah. his and hers. - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion? - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do wi the shih-tzu? - ( chirp ) joint custody. - dog: phew... announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hardf hearing and peop with speech disabilities access www.sprinelay.com. have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. at legalzoom, we'll help you incorporate your business, file a patent, make a will and more you can complete our online questions in minutes. then we'll prepare your legal documents and deliver them directly to you. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams.

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all right. welcome back. contessa joins us once again. the scenes of politics. >> happy birthday, governor schwarzenegger. a poll shows that californians don't really like him much.

>> basically, because he pushed the budget down the line. >> it could be partially because of that. it could be because that people got ious instead of real payment. his approval now 28%. a new low for him. the last time a governor faced an approval of even less than that, gray davis. but, not as bad as the legislature, a record low rating 15%. >> are you working for the people to try to get a 21st century. >> is sarah palin the new rush limbaugh? palin says she's been quietly testing the waters to see if perhaps she should have a radio show, syndicated radio show, a

million dollars. mike huckabee's short commentaries airs, it's entirely possible that she gets this big radio deal. >> i want sarah palin at the meeting. i want to meet her. >> she leaves on twitter all of these messages. her twitter messages have become this beat poetry. via william shatner. can i play this for you? >> god displays hiess most creative diversity in alaska. tourist across america, enjoying 49th. one hope, one destiny, one flag from sea to sea. >> those are actual tweets from sarah palin, turned into beat poetry. >> she's a poet. >> didn't know it. >> we're back, 2010 midterm

elections setting up. they may seem far ahead but statistics don't hold well for this congress. whether we'll see a huge swing come 2010 if this keeps up. (announcer) before they give you the lowest price, some pharmacies make you work for it with memberships and fees. but not walmart. they have hundreds of generic prescription for just $4 for up to a 30-day supply or $10 for 90 days. save money. live better. walmart. "what do you mean homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods?"

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is congressional revolution larger by a large margin? large large. anyway, are we setting up for 2010 revolution politically? that's the question. contessa has some of the data that suggests that we may heading in that direction. >> we have a ways to go before we get to the 2010 elections. that being said, democrats with a majority in the house of representatives. a new poll shows approval of congress at its lowest level since january, there's growing dissatisfaction over the similar us bill and efforts to reform health care. the approval rating for congress, 24% of the country say they improve of the congress.

approval down five points from a month ago, doubled from its lowest low from 12% last october. whether the numbers translate into a return of the gop into power remains to be seen. if it's any indication republicans are likely to see some gains because a new president's party typically loses seats in his first midterm election in office. >> we're joined by msnbc contributor, jonathan kaper here. nate, i'm going to focus with you on a piece of analysis that you did specifically on the house of representatives and how it tends to vote. i think we have the charts so everybody can see. typically it's a democrat baston. democrats vote for congress, 1946 to 2008. the question is, can they lose

as much as that red line suggests? this right here s that plausible move. i don't know whether historically, a 6% swing. >> can you explain this graph, please? >> nate can. >> democrats have generally have an edge in congress, but obviously, times recently where they didn't. the key thing is, how much will these numbers move. after you have a change in parties, it happened with reagan and clinton. the over/under, definitely in the range of possibility. >> what you're looking at this chart, historically democrats have more than 40% of the votes in the house of representatives. >> this is the height of newt

gingrich. >> right the we had the bush years and this is obama, right? coming in. that's '08. >> thus you were predicting in 2010, we're going to go back to an even congress -- >> no. >> not quite. the line probably will put downward instead of upward there. within the realm of possibility that the republicans can win back the house but not the senate. >> you know more of the political system runs. >> i don't know about nate. >> go ahead. >> wait, contessa mentioned one of the conventional wisdoms, is that the president's party loses seats in the midterm election. second conventional wisdom here, that wasn't mention, congress always has low approval ratings. nobody likes congress. if you ask a person about their representative, on the hill, more often than not, they like the person, so, i don't take too

much stock in that in low approval rating of congress. >> the way i annize, people like the politician that represents them, but they don't like the quality of the work that person does when they get there. either because the person is a two-faced charmer, right? love me, love me. then i get into the room and i don't do the job. which may be the case or maybe not. the system by which we are functioning is not serving the people. the system, the way it's set up, with the lobbying money, special interests, that's not in the interest of the people so they get very frustrate zbld dylan, you're right on the big issues, you're absolutely right. i think one of the things that plays into why people more often than not like their own

representative in congress is because, when that con student has a problem that has arepresentative can help him or her with, very big in those offices on capitol hill. if i need a flag if i need a tour of the capitol, help with something in my district or my congressman or congresswoman helps me, i'm more inclined to like that person. that's right. on the little things, i think a lot of people thinks congress gets things down. >> the debates we're having, their capacity, they want to play the hatfields and mccoys. they don't want to have a conversation about the financial structure, they just want to point fingers, jonathan, i don't understand how we get a system from finger pointing to look at

a system of analysis. >> let me -- this -- we're getting what we deserve. we get to vet on who we want to have a beer with. >> i disagree with you. >> what is this person about? one issue this person really cares about. they like the person. they don't like the person. >> we're getting what we deserved because american people have empowered a system that those who can accumulate vast wealth to do so at the expense of america, nothing to do with the politicians. i could put the most corrupt politicians or the nicest group of people in the world, with the system's set up, you're either of to bank party or of the energy party, union party, trial

union party. all of those parties are looking to serve their self-interest. we got this multitrillion-dollar bill that has come home for generations beyond us, your children, so we can empower the political exped yensy and not adapt our economies. >> it's so hard to get anything passed through congress. >> how do we improve the congress? >> maybe getting rid of the filibuster. >> what about the special interests? >> i think the problem is, need all 60 votes to get the health care passed, those eight or nine swing votes have influence on that. they need 60 votes. it means those people very

powerful can take money from anywhere. get money from all sides of the argument. >> how do you improve the system in your opinion, jonathan? >> you know, i think we improve the system in the ways that you have been talking about since the show started. i think it's having a president who comes in and says we have to change business as usual in washington. the fact that we don't have one crisis facing the country, at least three, plus two wars, served to focus the mind. then i think what needs to happen, you need to get people in congress who share that the president's vision of a new way of doing things. not necessary support barack obama. but people who want to get things done and not go into partisan camps >> i think the poll data shows,

you look at the delivery of trillions to the banks last fall without terms, you look at the health care conversationx;℠st 10

says the storm ripped out trees and caused several. and dylan, you can't make this one up. 7-year-old boy, 7 years old, led police on a chase in utah. just so he avoid going to church, bless his heart. church is long and boring. police caught up with boy north of the border. he ran into the house. apparently driving lessons would have come in handy. too young to prosecute. but police told his dad, you better keep your car keys away from him. can you imagine the lecture?

if jesus doesn't like car thieves. >> no stealing on the list. >> look at him running. run, run, run. >> that is too much. >> corporal punishment, a paddle. >> i wonder if the car was a stick or automatic. >> come on, it was an automatic. >> i did that once. got in the car with a stick shift, rolled it away, got in big trouble, never touched the stick shift. >> wasn't your father a preacher? >> yes, i got in trouble, too. >> ever steal the car? thank you, contessa. take a quick break. we're back right after this. has the fastest ser in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card.

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all right. welcome back. we actually had a great conversation "today" about the potential shift in congress, a

revolution could be in the making here, political challenge. people are talking about what's going to happen in 2010, we don't like to get involved with direct endorsement of candidate and we don't? >> well, no. no, we don't. although i do like ron wyden's health care plan. we have a video. this is somebody who's looking out for somebody else. what's the name of this whale again? >> mila. she saved a life. how can you not endorse her? >> mila would actually try to do what's -- >> right. >> 7-year-old friend. >> it was wrong on some level. but for many people who have endured long moments in church is so very right.

>> anyway, that wraps up "today's" "morning meeting." i'm dylan. thank you so much for being so generous. >> you're so smart, fun and to witty. really brilliant. >> carlos is coming up. he has a little bit of beer diplomacy and a couple of blue dog democrats on health care and a deeper look into those tax chiefs, that here live with carlos watson right after this. ♪

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