what role would bill clinton play in an obama administration with hillary clinton as secretary of state, and while this is being described as officially as a private, personal humanitarian mission, as mike just said, the connections here are very strong between, you know, this personal, private humanitarian mission and the united states government, just by the nature of familial relationships and political relationship, but it does show once again the popularity of former president clinton on the world stage. as we were discussing yesterday, trying to figure out why president clinton is the one who's going to north korea, and, you know, the talk was that you needed someone of stature, that perhaps president kim jong-il wanted someone of stature to hand the women over to, and clearly, he is one of a very few people with the united states who has that stature to be able

to do that. >> yes. george lewis is live in los angeles at the hangar there, and, george, are you with us? i don't know if george is -- >> reporter: yeah, dylan, inside the hangar, just, you're whoing at the plane just outside the hangar. i'm just on the other side of the door and we're obviously awaiting president clinton and the freed journalists to come inside and have a few words with us. >> what is your sense, george, how those journalists will spend the next hour of their day? first hour back in america? >> well, we're being told that they're going to have a family reunion at home rather than here at the hangar. that they're going to have private time with the families and then maybe come out and talk to us later on in the afternoon. so we're going to have to wait and see. we don't -- they appear to be in fairly good shape as they boarded the plane in pyongyang in north korea under their own esteem, and we'll have to wait and see how tired they are, what kind of shape they're in. >> so other than the obvious press gaggle in that hangar, and

i presume security personnel, et cetera who else is there to greet both the former president and most importantly those journalists as they come off that plane? >> reporter: there are a few -- >> family members at all? >> reporter: we haven't seen any large groups of family members here yet. it could be that they're in a holding room that we don't know about, but we're not aware of any large amount of family members here. they have seats set up just off the site of where i'm standing and most of those seats are empty right now. >> and we have a statement here from the family, "we are so grateful to our government. president obama, secretary clinton and the u.s. state department for their dedication to and hard work on behalf of american citizens. we especially want to thank president bill clinton for taking on such an arduous mission when all of this was unfolding there were a lot of people looking at the situation and wondering, how best to we

get these women out? that's priority number one. how do we do this in a way that is expedient and efficient. here's what secretary clinton said about this situation. >> i want to be sure people don't confuse what bill did, which was a private, humanitarian mission to bring these young women home, with our policy, which continues to be one that gives choices to north korea. they can continue on the path they are on or, perhaps, they will now be willing to start talking to us with the context of the six-party talks. >> and i guess what this all goes to, from a north korean perspective, or from the american perspective, korea, again, why did they do this and why they put forth a 12-year sentens, as described but when given the opportunity for the world spotlight in their country, for a former u.s. president to visit their country, for the drama that

we're all watching this morning, they're obviously very quick to modify that sentence which suggests, again, there's something more valuable in the minds of the north korean leadership by forcing this type of a moment than there is in holding a couple of american journalists sort of indefinit y indefinitely, and really, you have to wonder what is it that they think they can accomplish through something like this? >> what do they want? >> yeah. >> and -- jesse jackson's going to join us a little later to talk about his experience going to syria. andrea mitchell right now traveling with the secretary of state in nairobi, with some further perspective, perhaps even on the question contessa and i were just debating. andrea, what is your sense, not only of the day today but of what perhaps north korea is hoping to accomplish by sort of creating this event?

>> reporter: well, i think they want r-e-s-p-e-c-t. a unilateral, bilateral relationship with the united states. they want to be negotiating with the u.s. they don't want to have china, russia, japan, south korea involved. they've been trying to get this nuclear negotiation going between the united states and north korea. and so far the u.s. you know, the bill clinton administration, george bush administration and now again the obama administration all saying we have to deal with this regionally, even though there are, of course, side talks. they've been wanting to get attention. there's been a lot of very nasty undiplomatic exchanges between hillary clinton, for instance, and the north korean foreign ministry. she accused them of sounding like unrile teenagers. she said she sometimes acts like a schoolgirl, sometimes like a pensioner out shopping. it's been really personal, and in the midst of all of these bad conversations, there have been

secret talks going on with hillary clinton, her deputy jim steinberg, the national security team, all negotiating to find out who would be the right envoy and they came back july 27th with the name bill clinton. that is the person they wanted. they want add really high-level envoy, highest since jimmy carter was there back you know, in 1994. and then, of course, madeleine albright in 2000. i was on that trip. again, bill richardson, the governor of new mexico went in 2006, but they have not had anyone with the prestige of bill clinton who dylan and contessa, moving towards normalizing relations with north korea when he left office and ran out of time. they were already predisposed. >> where do the secretary of state and formal diplomatic channels go from here, andrea? >> reporter: an interview this morning, we'll see more of that later today. our show at 1:00, and what she

basically says, it's up to them. their choice. if they want to rejoin the rest of the world, rejoin the west, stop being so provocative they can. she's not saying this is already a breakthrough, but it is a moment, clearly. and even while trying to decouple bill clinton's trip as a private humanitarian gesture, not a diplomatic moment, there is obviously diplomatic benefits that can be gained. the down side, critics would say, john bolton and others on the hard line, is that they've already given north korea, kim jong-il, too much by having bill clinton go. i know that the families, you know, the families, al gore and everyone representing those two young women, would strngly certainly disagree, but that said, kim jong-il looks frail, yes, but this is the best he's looked since his stroke. and in all the video and pictures we've seen with bill clinton, he looked very, very happy indeed to have the former president there and have the eyes of the world on him. >> seems like such an oxymoron.

on one hand, andrea, north korea is conducting activity that isolates it from it international community and then on the other hand, he's so joyful over having bill clinton come in and have this photo opportunity with him. >> so desperately wants the attention of the world, clearly, to be on him. >> reporter: right. you make a good point, contessa and dylan, but it could provide propaganda for the north. the north is already so isolated, so really -- i don't know even the expression from around the world, i guess you'd say not disliked but feared and also not respected by the rest of the world. their neighbors, including china, not willing to go for the toughest sanctions but most recently, much tougher economic sanctions against north korea than anyone previously had been able to win. so china and russia finally onboard. so two or three have a lot to do

diplomatically to gain the respect of the world. it will take more than this photo op. >> andrea, thank you for the reporting. we'll release you to your other duties. i want to bring jonathan back into the conversation. where does bill clinton go from here? is there an opportunity for now bill clinton in some, again, non-diplomatic manner to utilize this success to continue to serve in some sort of, again, private citizen but special envoy for other hot spots? >> look, former president bill clinton can go wherever he wants to go. and he was very smart to say, i'm not going to north korea unless it's guaranteed i will come back with ms. lee and ms. ling. it is one thing also we should point out that i don't think can be mentioned often enough, and that is by having bill clinton there, meet directly with president kim jong-il, a former president, what he would be able to come back and tell the

administration is invaluable. things about the, kim jong-il's mental and physical state. any kind of background that could inform folks in the state department and with the administration as to who, who they're dealing with, and as andrea said in her report, know, this is the first time kim jong-il has been seen since his stroke i think, which was last year. so by having someone with, you know, very strong ties with the administration who can give firsthand knowledge and information about what the north korean leader is like, that's invaluable, in term of dealing with that country on things that have nothing to do with this diplomatic -- i'm sorry -- this humanitarian mission and everything to do with the party talks that secretary of state clinton made it very clear in that interview with andrea that what happened yesterday in pyongyang has nothing to do with

the more strenuous talks that have to go on now, and that's those six-party nuclear talks it. >> how much of it is propaganda building, and andrea mentioned this, for kim jong-il and that he has the photo op and the feeling of power associated with makes this happen? i'll come back to you, jonathan. savannah is freed up at the white house. what are the comments coming out of the white house this morning? >> reporter: i just learned we going to get a statement from the president on camera. he's, as you foe, on his way to elk hart, indiana this morning. he'll make a statement before he boards marine one on the south lawn of the white house. i don't know the content of that statement, but in any event, he'll make some kind of statement. we expect that. besides that, hearing a lot of the back story and just how involved the white house and the state department really were in this mission. yesterday the posture was this is a private humanitarian mission, in some sense, that's true. to the extent that issues like

the nuclear issue weren't officially on the table. on the other hand, there was government involvement. this was thoroughly vetted both leer at the white house, the nfc and state department. i think we'll hear the president likely congratulate president clinton, obviously welcome home the girls and express his relief that these women are now on u.s. soil. >> and any statement from the white house prior to the president's public comments we're now anticipating? >> reporter: no. expected a written statement but i now think the president will be on the south lawn will trump that. we'll hear from the president in a few minutes. >> understood. you can see obvious they're rolling the staircase up to the jet. the jet now inside of the hangar. the anticipation inside of that cabin obviously reaching an apex for the folks inside. not only for the president but for everybody onboard that airplane. george lewis, are you still there? >> reporter: okay. >> george? >> reporter: i've got -- >> george, what is your sense --

what's the sense in that room now? how many people are in there? where are you and where were you relative to that airplane we're seeing on camera? >> reporter: we're in hangar 25 in the burbank airport. you can see now family members including lisa ling coming up to the plane now. the father of laura ling, also here. a fair number of people that i can recognize. and here they are.

>> what a delight to see a successful return home. so many pictures of american journalist, american soldiers these past years stuffed in far away places under circumstances that most of us could never truly conger. to see somebody come home let

alone these two. >> we're seeing now, this is lisa ling, the noted journalist hugging euna lee, just reunited with her family in what was extremely emotional to see that child at the bottom of the stairs reaching out, and we also saw the former vice president al gore for whom these women were working for current tv on this mission when they crossed illegally into north korea. north korea captured them, i accused the women of spying, and then put them on trial in a very quick trial. sentenced them to 12 years of hard labor. you have to think, it was agonizing for them to hear that sentence and not to know whether this would actually happen anytime soon. >> yes. and, again, the circumstances in that period in between and the lack of information that exists in a situation like that for somebody in that situation. basically make as day like today

as powerful as it is. this, again, evidence that some form of diplomacy in this case, humanitari humanitarian, nongovernmental, because we're dealing with such an intensely troubled state, shall we say, worked. and it makes me think a little bit about relations with vietnam right after that. when you think about our relations with hostile nations and our ability to form even the slightest, smallest relationships outside ever government, whether it's former presidents or otherwise, at least it opened the pictures and dialogue. george -- obviouslobviouslily, t clinton coming off the plane. >> president clinton, former president clinton and former vice president al gore here. after a very successful diplomatic mission.

>> and the desperate hope that these family, hinged on his success. him being able to go over and come back with their loved ones. >> well, no one better to do the job. bill clinton, an international celebrity. again, to this day, maybe the most loved president of the united states outside of the united states, and you can see it in the face of kim jong-il. we are a fortunate nation that we're even able to deliver someone like president clinton who has so much authority and sort of glamour and gravitase simultaneously that they was able uniquely, i would say, be qualified to go into a hostile state, a state with which the united states does not have diplomatic relations, and rescue

these two women without having to get into the hornets nest that is the diplomacy or lack of diplomacy and hostility of north korea to china, to japan and to the west. >> and also, dylan and then a reminder that there are journalists who risk their lives on a regular basis to tell the truth. to go into places where freedom of the press is not a guarantee, and to put their lives and livelihoods on the line to have families waiting for them at home, trying to get to the bottom of the story. trying to shed light on very dark places, and in many cases, these happy endings don't happen. >> yes. and, again, you need not -- you need look no further than the free lance journalist whose have worked over the past decade and certainly since 2003 in the middle east, to deliver reporting out of iraq, out of afghanistan, out of iran.

people who make, again, their career legitimately trying to pursue the collection of information so that the bright lights of the technology and transparency can make it obvious and evident to the world that disparities and the wrongs and the cheating and all of the different things we sort of -- that journalism is there to do, and this the most extreme expression of it, and the most discaras iteration of it results, but for the fact that president clinton along with those who i'm sure assisted him in setting this up was able to get those two out of there. >> and look at that picture of a mother and her child who have not seen each other in so many months, and you can just see that little girl is not letting go. and mom is not going to let go either. >> yes. i want to bring in reverend jesse jackson, who, again, we

discussed yesterday, reverend, you're humanitarian mission to syria in 1983. the thoughts that go through your mind as you watch the same picture, everybody else in this country is watching this morning? >> just the joy of this family reunion. we've been in touch with this family now for a couple of months, and on occasion they were able to talk by telephone to north korea to california and the little girl was running weary for her mommy. the families have didn't a fantastic job as a unit taying together through all of this. a lot of stuff was going on behind the scenes. i think that while the family reunites, we must give president clinton for being the conduit in this, but our government, i'm convinced, was involved. he did not go to negotiating, picked them up. we were using language human rights, assuming they were doing something wrong. shift to use the language

amnesty, meaning the young ladies did something wrong and they were letting them out based upon mercy from their judicial system, not because of our human rights. out of this, as all with us. >> reverend, i'm going to interrupt you. the journalists approaches the microphone here. >> 30 hours ago euna lee and i were prisoners in north korea. we feared that at any moment we could be sent to a hard labor camp. and then suddenly we were told that we were going to a meeting we taken to a location and when we walked through the doors, we saw standing before us president bill clinton.

we were shocked, but we knew instantly in our hearts that the nightmare of our lives was finally coming to an end, and now we stand here home and free. euna and i would just like to express our deepest gratitude to president clinton and his wonderful, amazing, not to mention super cool team, including john podesta, doug ban, justin cooper, dr. roger band, david stroub, min ji kwan and united states secret service

who traveled half way around the world add then some to secure our release. we'd also like to thank president obama, secretary clinton, vice president gore, who we also call al, the swedish ambassador matt sawyer, curt tong, linda mcfadden and the people at the u.s. state department who work sewed hard to win the release of their fellow americans. steve bing and his crew, and andrew libberous and the dow company, and i know that i am forgetting a bunch of instrumental people right now, but forgive me if i'm a little incoherent. to our loved ones, friends, colleagues, and to the complete strangers with the kindness of heart who showed us so much love

and sent us so many positive thoughts and energy, we thank you. we could feel your love all the way in north korea. it is what kept us going in the darkest of hours. it is what sustained our faith that we would come home. the past 140 days have been the most difficult, heartwrenching time of our lives. we are very grateful that we were granted amnesty by the government of north korea, and we are so happy to be home, and we are just so anxious right now to be able to spend some quiet, private time getting reacquainted with our family. thank you so much.

>> ladies and gentlemen, the families asked me to say a few words, and on their behalf, all of us, and on behalf of the staff and families of current tv and my co-founder joel hyatt, we want to william laura and euna home. we want to thank president bill clinton for undertaking this mission and performing it so skillfully, and all the members of his team who played key roles in this. also to president obama, laura mentioned this, but president obama and countless members of his administration have been deeply involved in this humanitarian effort, to secretary of state clinton and

the members of the state department, several of whom are here, they have really put their hearts in this. it speaks well of our country that when two american citizens are in harm's way, that so many people would just put things aside and just go to work to make sure that this has, had a happy ending, and we are so grateful to all of them, to the thousands upon thousands of people who have held laura and euna in their prayers, who have written letters and called and sent e-mails, we were very, very grateful to all the folks who have made the flight possible, we say a word of thanks, this has been an ordeal for them, but i want you all to know, your families have been unbelievable. unbelievable.

passionate, involved, committed, innovative. you'll hear a lot of stories, and they're looking forward to hearing a lot of stories from you, but euna, your daughter has been a great girl why you were gone and laura, your mom's been making your special soup for two days now, and to everybody who's played a part in this and, again, a special thanks to president bill clinton, my partner and friend, so grateful, and, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming out. we're going to let these families have a full and proper reunion now, but thank you for coming out. >> there you have it. the welcome home ceremony now for laura ling and euna lee, and never could it have been more emotional to see little hana and you heard the former vice president refer to her as that little girl reach out for her mom and her mom so incredibly

excited to hold her in her arms. the reunion finally, after so many months. >> mike with the president, where do we stand with the white house? mike, are you there still? >> yeah. out here on the south lawn, bill. >> anything from the president yet? >> we do expect to see a departure statement from the president, a last-minute thing. a feverish effort on the part of news crews to get this event live. the president, of course, to depart for elkhart, indiana. it's been on the books, on the schedule quite some days. the second visit to elkhart, economic area in indiana. second visit of the president. obviously this has taken the world by storm in the last 12 hours and the president has seen fit to stop on his way out and make a formal departure statement. something we don't usually see here at white house. >> reverend jackson, are you still with us?

>> yes. >> where does this go from here? in other words, the emotion and the story could not be more compelling. the question becomes, does this alter in any way the dialogue? >> i think it does. first, we want to relish in the joy for a moment. you know, we want to go on real fast, but this is a, a big deal, good news thing, which we see so many bad news thing. so much pain and tragedy, but this is really a good news story. a tough ordeal with a happy ending. secondly, our government no doubt was very involved in this process. president clinton did not go about, the release to pick them up, the deal had been cut before they left, which means north korea was sending a signal by releetsing them and we were sending a signal by sending former president clinton and the husband of the secretary of state, and that does open room for dialogue, and no doubt, the

agenda has to deal with north korea's own issues, using the nuclear development as a kind of leverage, but it's a very poor country. we have an interest because it's very connected with south korea. very connected with the peninsula. i think the next step is real possible negotiations. maybe just a long amyth mikell name calling, calling hillary clinton a nasty name just a few days ago. this might bring a new start. >> jonathan, are you here? >> here. there's an observation i just want to point out. remember during the campaign, a lot of talk about the rivalry between the clinton camp and the obama camp. and then once he became president, you know, what was it going to be like to have, you know, secretary of state clinton working for president obama? and during the arrival ceremony, the picture of former president clinton, former vice president

gore, you see this -- this melding of these two camps working as one, and then there's one person we have to talk about in particular, who bridges the two, and that's john podesta, who ms. ling singled out for thanks. john podesta was president clinton's chief of staff, also president obama chief of transition. there's a lot of synergy here and a lot of people working together, putting aside rivalries, putting things aside as vice president gore said, to work together and work very hard to get those two women freed, and so i think that, you know, that that's what's so powerful and evocative of the image of all of those people standing there welcoming these women home. >> andrea mitchell rejoins us. andrea, your first thoughts, obviously, in seeing the heartwrenching and heartwarming return of these women, and,

again, the diplomatic path forward for at least a way to extend dialogue on a more positive note on a note of success as opposed to a note of constant sort of ak crow mown and name calling. >> reporter: you know, it's impossible not to react to this emotionally as a person who just watches how laura ling expressed herself. the shock of being taken to a room and then seeing bill clinton and knowing instantly as she put it, that their personal nightmare was over. 140 days. just imagine not knowing, even though they were not held in bad conditions, any one of those days they could have been taken off to a hard labor camp and never seen again. knowing they had some communication, but not complete communication with their family. monitors communication. knowing were you, there as i was there briefly back when madeleine albright went, that you are always being watched.

always being observed. always lived to, your conversations. you know that there are video cameras in your room. that is a very eerie feeling. it's an invasion of privacy and here they were prisoners living in north korea for 1 ho d40 day. can we have a brebreakthrough? what reverend jackson was talking about. no one can criticize the obama administration for mot reaching out and reversing the policy of the bush administration in north korea. and condoleezza rice tried to do this in the first four years of the bush administration. i was interested to hear talk about the rivalries of the two camps coming together behind this really humanitarian purpose and you also had the back story politically, those of us who are political junkies, of the rival gore and clinton camp. initially the state department and gore people were saying that, when the time was right, al gore will be willing to go,

as the envoy. when the time was right, north korea was willing to make a deal, they didn't want al gore. they wanted one person. the former president of the united states, and that certainly helped to build up the credibility in some quarters of what kim jong-il has done as he's managed to become the center of attention, at least for 24 hours. dylan? >> savannah guthrie, also here. savannah, andrea makes an incredibly pointed, or makes a very clear, i should say, that the obama administration is ready to consider a different dialogue than the bush administration started some years ago. the north koreans, obviously, want the world's attention. you know what? i don't even have to ask. the president's going to tell us himself. here he comes. again -- this, we presume will be commentary, contessa, obviously on the incredible emotion of the return of these women. >> and it's unusual for the

president to make a statement before boarding marine one. usually it's a photo op. before he heads off to elkhart, indiana. he'll stop and make a brief statement. let's listen to the president. >> good morning, everybody. i want to just make a brief comment about the fact that the two young journalists euna lee and laura ling are safely back with their families. we are obviously extraordinarily relieved. i had an opportunity to speak with the families yesterday. once we knew that they were on the plane, the reunion we've all seen on television, i think is a source happiness not only for the families but for the entire country. i want to thank president bill clinton. i had a chance to talk to him for the extraordinary humanitarian effort that resulted in the release of the

two journalists. i want to thank vice president al gore, who worked tirelessly in order to achieve a positive outcome. i think that not only is this white house obviously extraordinarily happy, but all americans should be grateful to both former president clinton and vice president gore for their extraordinary work. and my hope is that the families that have been reunited can enjoy the next several days and weeks understanding that because of the efforts of president clinton and gore, they are able to be with each other once again. so we are very pleased with the outcome, and i'm hopeful that the families are going to be

able to get some good time together in the next few days. thank you very much. >> -- the ongoing six-party talks -- >> president barack obama, reverend jackson, striking the right tone for sure that the pure joy, the homecoming, reverend jackson, if you could, give us a sense of the intensity of that emotion and then the period of days that follow. again, i think of your return from syria with an american prisoner and these women now coming back to america after having been in such a different place. the day that -- >> you go from fear and doubt to hope. it's a really darkness to sunlight. but to use new language a teachable moment. it's not just for north korea but for the u.s. as well. to use, as president obama reached out as a whole to language like axis of evil, a

significant diplomatic shift in tone, and for him to be secure enough to use president clinton and secretary of state hillary clinton and not marginalize them out of insecuritisy a big deal. the highest of bill clinton we saw take place today and complemented with his wife, secretary of state and extension of the white house. that's a real smart quarterback you saw from barack obama, because the white house has been very involved in this whole matter. even just, he didn't go on his own. he was there with some kind of message, and that message will lead no doubt to a new tone for dialog dialogue. >> savannah, what's your sense of the president's toolbox? he has diplomatic channels, his cabinet. clearly has bill clinton. if the occasion is appropriate. just -- does he feel in other words, does the president feel he has the ability to enlist whatever, whoever, wherever,

whenever, both in terms of ego relationships and political relationships to really try to push forward with north korea or iran for that matter? >> i think he feels he does, and, of course, the diplomatic tools they want to use right now are enforcement of the u.n. sanctions that are very tough and the administration really likes to point out this isn't the adoption of u.n. sanctions but enforcement and execution. they like to say this is a moment when north korea has never been more isolated with regard to the nuclear issue. they have no friends left. they're hoping that this is a very sharp relief for the north korean, they see clearly the two baths before them. one a diplomatic path, re-enters talks with the six parties and go down a diplomatic road and then the road of isolation's they're hoping this is a very stark choice for the north koreans. they have that tack as well as you said, the idea of engagement.

it's a different path, a different kind of policy than what we saw with the bush administration. we'll see if it pays any dividends. one way to look at this from the north koreans perspective, perhaps this was a way for them to extract themselves, to kind of reset. they're the one whose have been so belligerent, engaged in all of this nuclear brink manship with the setting off of a second nuclear device and missile launches and doing this, a humanitarian gesture but receiving a visit that shows a lot of respect from a former president, there's been lamenting, cooling, away to get back to the table. we'll see if that really happens. >> interesting thing is that it's obvious what the stick is in this case. in other words, isolation, sanctions, the list is lengthy and fairly well known. the question, i guess from a diplomatic standpoint and jonathan, maybe you can jump in on this as well. what is the carrot? in other words what can north korea gain by reducing their

belisten rance, again, in their own minds and engaeching in these six-party talks? >> well, it could be, you know, relieves some of the pressure from the united states against it. you know, isolation, global isolation, is you know, it's a very powerful thing. north korea is a very poor country. it has a leader that is, you know, embarrassingly described as unstable and mega maniacal is the word i think i'm looking for, and clearly it's a nation looking for respect. it's hard to get respect when you are isolated by just about everyone. secretary of state clinton was right, it has no friends left. back up against the wall. if it wants to get away from that position, it's going to have to do something to let the world know that it's ready to deal with it on the world's terms and maybe this, and maybe releasing those two journalists to president clinton is that way

of going about it. >> andrea what do you think? a visit from a former president, the world media on your country, on you? pictures of you with the former president? is this enough of a show of respect, if you will, if that's what you want to call this process, to allow north korea or kim jong-il specifically the ego clearance to walk into a conversation feeling like he has been now, been respected in some way? >> reporter: well, it could be a circuit breaker. it could exactly be, what it needed, they've been spiraling in the wrong direction by all the opinion of the world. testing missiles, testing nuclear weapons and there hasn't been any way to pull them back, and when you get into this kind of a, of a cycle, there's nothing the world can do except say, we will try to punish you. you can't say we know you're being bad. let's sit down and talk. now there's a moment, and if north korea can seize that

moment, it would be a major breakthrough. of course, that's what's been unclear until now, dylan and contessa, is who's in charge there? i think what you saw today was that king jm jong-il is back fr premature death. reports of his death were exaggerated. >> indeed. reverend jackson, again i think of post-war vietnam and efforts to try to create over time diplomatic relations with that country, which were largely first driven by private individuals, americans, establishing private relations with private individuals in vietnam over a period of many years, decades, even before there was formal government interaction. is there a version of that template viable here using bill clinton and other sort of high-profile nongovernmental individuals to begin some form of off the record dialogue in anticipation of a possible on

the record dialogue? is that a viable model? >> yeah. this is off the record, but this is as close to being on the record as it possibly can be. i think we're all winners in this. the families are winners by being reunited. the united states needs a softer relationship with north korea, because they may not have positive, but they have negative powers. they are a threat to south korea. they are a threat to the peninsula's they have the power to wreak havoc. so if we can reduce their tendency towards wreaking havoc and trust in us to be a trusted conduit, we win and they win. the thing, that attitude we're both winners in this process. now take it to ay here conclusion. what are their needs and what are our needs and let's seek in that instance common ground. that is what the diplomatic objective must be. we are this and they are that. >> contessa asked at the beginning of the conversation,

which is what does north korea want? you talk with their delisten rinse and behavior. it's obvious to the world how they behave. what is it that they feel they don't have or that they're not getting? in other words, what beyond, you know, global domination or some sort of fantasy of meg blow mal unsuccessful for any world leader, do they feel they're not getting? >> i don't know what they want besides being respected, a sovereign nation in some meaningful way. to gain respect of their neighbors and maybe this is a step in that direction. we affirmed them today. we recognized them today. we're in their thoughts today. and remember, brerch americans brethren americans getting home top syria and president reagan said what can we do in return?

call them and say thank you. he called and said thank you. never stopped talking. just thank you was the beginning. so this gesture is a very big, big gesture and creates this for all members on all sides. >> all right. reverend, we will take our first break of the hour here. again, both journalists are owned own -- home. former president clinton is home. a heartwarming moment for them and for our country. again, a success. a homecoming. and what a beautiful one it is. we take a break and are back right after this. - ( microphone feedback ) - whoa. hi, i'm john.

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all right. welcome back to the "morning meeting." you're looking here at dramatic pictures of the return of two american journalist. again, former president bill

clinton bringing them back. reverend jesse jackson will stay with us with the conversation in the next hour of the meeting. we will also be joined by a gentleman colin thomas, writer and journalist who, himself, spent time in a south korean prison and wrote a book about it. brother one cell, an american coming of age in a south korean prison so we will talk about what experiences he had in a similar context. but i do want to take a second here to alter the conversation from this and what a heartwarming one it is, to a shocking story that developed late yesterday afternoon and having to do with a shooting in pennsylvania. contessa, what happened yesterday? >> in allegheny county, some 30 people women participating in a latin dance class. a gunman walked in, apparently, shut off the light and opened fire. the death toll this morning stands at four. it looks like three women were killed as well as the gunman and the associated press just now is

learning something about the identity of the gunman. they say a website was posted under the gunman's name. he was writing death lives and his hatred of women and how he was tired of being rejected by them and, again, it looks like sources are telling the associated press that in bridgeville, this man walked into an la fitness gym and opened fire and wounding nine people and killing three women before turning the gun on himself. >> there are not words. clint van zandt joins us. author of facing down evil. contessa, obviously, still here. to analyze somebody like this, is a peculiar undertaking to begin with, but what is your sense of the type of person that would do this and how this happens, quite simply?

>> yeah. unfortunately, we've seen enough mass murderers in the united states somebody who kills four or more people in a single incident. we understand the things that most of us really can't understand. in this case, you always see a common motive. most of the time it's going to be revenge against either family, a girlfriend, an ex-wife, somebody in a workplace, or society in general. i think what we see here and if we believe what we've read in this guy's blog, it seems to go along. this is a 48-year-old man who says he hasn't had a date, that he hasn't been with a woman since 1984, that he tries. he goes to the gym. he pumps iron. but he gets rejected. this is someone who has been isolated. he's been depressed. he's been alone. he says that he's been bullied by his family over the years and he felt he was going to lose his job. he saw his whole world caving in and he blamed it on women.

he said there were 30 million women out there, single women that were desirable and none of them wanted a relationship with him. this guy planned on doing this. again, if you believe his blog, he planned on doing this since at least november of 2008 and one time, two or three months ago, he said he chickened out. he brought the guns, decided not to do it. now, good things what happened in his life, people would come up and talk to him. he got a new job. everything was going okay. he pushed that aside because he wanted to keep his plan. what he called his exit plan moving and he did that and over this period of months, like we see with mass murders, this guy continued the planning and accumulated the weapons and went in and out of the gym where he belonged and then he carried out this terrible plan because of the rejection that he says he felt for the last quarter century. >> clint, we've talked about this before when these horrible shootings happen in unexpected

places. i'm just curious. what is the role of family? he is saying his family picked on him, bullied him. what is the role of family and friends when they see that someone is acting in a socially awkward, abnormal, questionable way? >> well, you know, a lot of people are just what you say. a lot of people, you and i know, you know, they're awkward, they don't get along, they don't date, they have challenges at work and everything. but they don't pick up two guns and walk in a gym and start blazing away. so the number of people that are depressed rejected or even have this sense of i want revenge, you know, that boils down to a very small number who actually pick up guns. but what it tells us, contessa, there are a lot of walk and wounded in this society. people who are challenged and many different ways and if you're a family, if you're a friend or if you're somebody else, if you hear somebody start to talk, they are depressed, they are challenged, life not worth living, that's a person we need to slide up to and try to

help them get through a difficult time. it looked like some people may have tried, but not enough, too little, too late for this guy and he chose instead to go ahead with his exit plan, as he called it on his plog. he was going to exit this world and he was going to take revenge against this group, attractive women, as far as he was concerned, that rejected him. he went out in a bang and he was going to take them with him. and this, unfortunately, something we see played out far too many times when somebody feels depressed and isolated and they blame the world. just like cho, the shooter at virginia tech did, that same type of mentality. >> clint, thank you so much for the insight. a day of stark contrast. a tragedy in pennsylvania and a celebration in southern california. as those two journalists come home. still ahead in the second hour of the "morning meeting," the latest on both of those

stories. bill clinton, obviously, the here row today bringing two journalists home from north korea unharmed. we saw the emotional reunion live here on msnbc. more on former president's successful humanitarian mission. jonathan capehart, contessa, the reverend jesse jackson and ron wyden, will do a little health care in the second hour of the "morning meeting." in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take andea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. robert shapiro: we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter.

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it gets no more dramatic or emotional than the pictures that were seen around the world this morning and an end to a five-month period of detention for two american journalists who had entered into north korea illegally. euna lee and laura ling arriving back in california less than an hour ago. they were great by their families as they stepped off the plane. nbc's george lewis is in los angeles. hi, george. >> yeah, it was hardly a dry eye in the house as that touching

reunion unfolded here at hangar 25 in burbank. laura ling and euna lee and their families reunited after 140 days in captivity and then a very emotional story. the two women thought that any day that they would be hauled off to a hard labor camp and then imagine their surprise when they saw bill clinton for the first time. we're going to hear from the two women's employer, former vice president al gore who runs current tv, the channel they were working for when they were captured by the north koreans and reaction from president obama but, first, laura ling in her own words. >> we could feel your love all the way in north korea. it is what kept us going in the darkest of hours. it is what sustained our faith that we would come home. >> special speaks.

>> it speaks well of our country when two american citizens are in harm's way, that so many people would just put things aside and just go to work to make sure that this has had a happy ending and we are so grateful to all of them. >> i think that not only is this white house, obviously, extraordinarily happy, but all americans should be grateful to both former president clinton and vice president gore for their extraordinary work. and my hope is that the families that have been reunited can enjoy the next several days and weeks understanding that because of the efforts of president clinton and gore, they are able to be with each other once again.

>> reporter: so the clinton mission in north korea was billed as unofficial, but there was a lot of back stage diplomacy going on involving clinton's wife, secretary of state hillary clinton and the staff of the state department. everyone wanting to make sure that the clinton mission would succeed, that he would go over there and be able to return with the two women, wouldn't come home empty-handed and, obviously, it was a success. for north korea, the leader kim jong-il got his photo-op with the former president, got to be on the world stage, got a little measure of respect perhaps, and the main accomplishment, however, came with the return of those two women on american soil today and they said they were glad to be back home and glad to be back in a place where there is freedom. back to you. >> george, thank you very much. reverend jackson, this is being referred to and, obviously, the former president clinton is a private citizen, but by virtue of his unique status as a private citizen, being a former

president, being married to the current secretary of state, the list of connections to the current white house, how much of this is actual diplomacy on the part of america as a governmental entity, even if it's being represented through a former president? >> this is the best of the diplomacy but i cannot help but contrast the joy in burbank today and the sadness in pittsburgh today. >> yeah. >> here we have two families saved and three families lost. we don't send to get the message. these walked wounded members of the press have easy access and as we see the career as a big threat, we're losing more lives at home than abroad that cannot miss sending we must learn at some point the access of these semiautomatic weapons is a contradictment between our request for peace in the world. on the story coming out of korea

today, president clinton, effective use of his persona, his relationship with the administration. here i think, you see a laying the groundwork. we will not go back toward axis of evil but go forward with a relationship. >> jonathan, are you there? >> yes, dylan. >> where does hillary clinton go from here? >> well, as we all know watching andrea's reports, she is doing her job. she is in africa on a big trip here. people have been talking a lot lately about whether secretary clinton has been sidelined by some of the other high wattage foreign policy stars within the obama administration and people wondering if she is being eclipsed by other folks sitting there in the white house and, clearly, she's made it clear that that's not the case, she is part of a team and as we've seen with the successful release of

the two journalists that, you know, she is very comfortable and president obama is very comfortable in working together to solve some problems. as i pointed out before, this is an extraordinary event where you had two people, the clintons and the obamas who went head-to-head during the presidential campaign, people wondered whether they would even be able to work together during the general election, would they be able to work together with her as secretary of state and with him as president. as we've seen with this very joyous england that they are able to work together and as i pointed out before and i'll point it out again, that the common link between those two camps is john podesta, who was president clinton's chief of staff when he was president. john podesta on that trip to north korea but he was also president obama's chief of transition. the notion that this was focused

on rivalry just isn't panning out and it isn't panning out in this particular case. >> colin thomas joins our conversation. a writer, journalist, most relevant to this particular conversation. you spent time in a south korean prison, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> how long? >> it was 3 1/2 years. >> 3 1/2 years? >> uh-huh. >> why were you there? and why was it a south korean prison? >> teaching english and i was based in seoul. >> what were the conditions? i ask you because what is interesting about this or what it compels people is it's so beyond most americans' imagination to be in a situation like you were in or, for that matter, the one the situation the women were just in. were you given food every day? was there a bed? give us a sense of the circumstances. >> in fact, it was interesting that conditions were pretty bare and primitive. >> did you have a bed? >> we slept on the floors on thin mattresses.

>> did they give you food every day? >> food every day. >> three meals? >> three meals but rough rudimentary stuff, barley, rice. no hot water. not really much running water. plumbing, not much to speak of. pretty much third world conditions. so i think the journalists, it was interesting for me to see that even though north korea, of course, regard it as an axis of evil and so much tension there, but, in fact, the reports coming out of the way they were being treated, euna lee and laura ling, that in some ways, it wasn't as bad. they were doing all right. obviously, the north korean state was coddling them a little bit and being careful with them. i experienced that in the south. the korean it has to do with i think, real fusion and attention to appearances and they are concerned with the way they

appear in front of the world. >> reverend jackson, you get the last word on these incredible stories. again, the contrast, you hit perfectly. your thoughts? >> well, the good news is that we kept the issues before today. they were not out of sight, out of mind. their family stepped to the plate. we did mass rallies around the country. the government was involved in an indirect way. those diplomat -- involved in a very indirect way. equal the release of these two young women and i'm convinced that we are making a basic transition now. north korea sending a message. they want to talk with us and we need to talk with them and, together, we can release a lot of pressure off south korea and the peninsula and perhaps reduce the -- perhaps reduce the nuclear threat. we must hope in that way. president barack obama, his own insecurity that allows him to

effectively use the clintons and not marginalize them and not afraid to use them. a less secure man would not effectively use the clintons and he is doing it in a much significant way and he deserves congratulations as well. >> reverend, a pleasure and thank you for spending a piece of your morning with us and making our coverage and giving our coverage the richness and quality that you give it when you join us. thank you for that and enjoy your day. the contrast, again, stark following breaking developments on that shooting in pennsylvania at a health club. it was at suburban pittsburgh. three women shot and killed before a gunman turned the gun on himself. alison cartville is there with the latest. tell us what you know, alison. >> good morning, dylan. what we know at this hour is the associated press and other media outlets have identified who they believe to be the shooter in this case as a george sodini.

a 48-year-old man from scott township. these claims are bolstered by the discovery of a blog site under his name where entries on that site began back in november of 2008 and continued right up until august 3rd of 2009. and in those blogs, there is very disturbing evidence of this man's plan to carry out an act such as this. he talked about his hatred and anger towards women. he talked about his hatred and anger towards his family and he even spoke of how he did dry runs of this event. in an entry marked january 6th on 2009, he said, it is 8:45 p.m. i chickened out expletive. i brought the loaded gun, everything. hell. he repeats that type of entries throughout this long period of time. he started this blog with his birth date and the last entry, talked about his death and that death date was given as

8/4/2009. dylan? >> clint van zandt joins us. clint, contessa is also here. there's a certain percentage of the population, obviously, that feels disenfranchised, disrespected, not included in some way. we talked earlier about how throughs a huge difference between people who feel that way and people who take the action of a man like this. have you been able to identify what the differences between somebody who feels, again, left out and then somebody who feels left out and exhibits this type of behavior? >> i think that's a fine line sometimes. another one of the common factors we find in mass suicides is probably when we look at, let's say, the past hundred plus incidents that have taken place in the united states. a suicide on the part of the shooter is usually there and at least 50% of the cases realize that is their less than 5% of the cases when someone commits a single or a double homicide, as

terrible as that is. so this suicidal ideation is always there, too. this plan of this thought i got to get out of this world, i'm going to take others with me. so i think that's the thing that people around somebody like this, not only do they appear to be socially isolated, do they suggest they're alone or are they depressed, but when someone starts talking about things of revenge, when they identify people group and in this guy's case, attractive women, 30 million women in the united states that he says would have nothing to do with him. and if he starts talking about suicidal ideation, thoughts of ending his life, thoughts of moving on again, that's the time that we all need to be picking up on that. if it's a family member, if it's a friend or somebody else, we need to get them some type of help and don't quit if they just refuse us over time. >> we saw the same thing with the shooter in the holocaust museum that it was there for all kinds of people to read.

here it was. it was online and on his blog. was no one reading it? >> well, you know, that's the case. you wonder how many hits this guy had on his blog. realize he had few, if any, friends. he says he hasn't had a girlfriend or a date for basically for about the last 25 or 30 years. says he doesn't want to spend the next 25 years of his life like this. what a terrible thing. he is posting a blog. he is pouring out his soul. he is saying let me tell you how bad my life is and let me tell you what i'm going to do about it and nobody even reads. you publish a newspaper and nobody lays a quarter down and picks up a copy. that's what it appears was going on in this guy's life. >> yeah. all right. clint, thank you once again. gwynne, jesse jackson hit it perfectly. the contrast today. go ahead. >> breaking news coming in to us right now. it looks like the senate has just passed cash for clunkers. just crossing the wires that, indeed, the senators have come

together and decided to put $2 billion more toward that program. >> to that end, i know robin was scheduled at 9:00 and see if we can get him in at 10:00 to talk about cash for clunkers. we will take a break here. we've got a lot to get through the next hour or what is left of it, of the meeting. up next, rescuing health care reform. there is still one group of senators, republicans and democrats, i suggest you look at "the washington post" this morning talking about a plan to try to get this done. one of the men leading that effort to create competition for health insurance and, at the same time, a mandate for everybody's participation. you're looking at him here, democrat ron wyden joins us with wyden/bennett and a proposal that now is accumulating support on both sides of the aisle. one that actually focuses on how to fix health care, not simply who is paying for what is now a very inefficient system.

plus, the democratic national committee taking on a new ad. the president taking on the protests, quote/unquote, erupting at local town halls. details on the so-called phenomenon of uprising who many folks believe that is a produced event and a little more. we are back with senator ron wyden and their health care idea, good ones they are, indeed, after this. upbeat rock ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪ ♪ so i could hear myself as a ringtone ♪

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good wednesday. i'm contessa brewer. hope for the health reform not dead yet according to a handful of senators still working on it. the senate finance committee the last congressional panel still working on a bill and the only one left to get both parties on board. one of the members oregon

democrat ron wyden says he has a plan that can work. he wrote, quote, in a. . op-ed. senate democrats met with the president tuesday and said they're determined to get reform passed this year. but if the senate finance committee can't craft a bipartisan bill by mid september the president may opt for a democratic bill even if he can't get gop support here. >> joining us is oregon's democratic senator, ron wyden, a member of the senate finance committee and author and cosponsor of the healthy americans act and staying with us is jonathan capehart. senator, welcome. before we get who is in favor and against, i would like you to walk us through how your plan

works so that we can truly understand what it is you are suggesting we do and your sense of why it is that the health insurance companies are so resistant to a little friendly american competition. >> dylan, the heart of our plan is consumer choice and it's set up pretty much along the lines of the way it worked for members of congress. i checked the other day. i belong to a group with my private insurance plan with a million members. that's an opportunity to spread a lot of the risk and make sure that people can get a bargain. right now, when americans want to play hardball with the insurance industry most have very little leverage. so we make sure that people are in a position to have a wide set of choices. they get rewarded financially when they make them. the insurance companies cannot cherry-pick, they can't discriminate against people who have illnesses. what we are offering the american people is essentially modeled after what their elected officials have. >> if you were to look at those who are most resistant to this,

the health insurance companies have obvious reasons to resist ovens reasons to lobby the less competition, the more money they can make. are there other constituents? labor unions come to mind where they feel they have the exclusive benefit of providing good benefits and if we provide the sort of market forces that you're talking about that it diminishes other consortium power, co-ops and unions and the like. >> the fact of the matter is in many respects, consumers are being held back, they're not being allowed to go to these exchanges. the farmer's market where they could have clout like members of congress have for the reasons you've identified. people don't want them to have that kind of control. i don't think that's right. you know, when you have consumers, for example, in an itty-bitty group and one of them gets sick, that just blows rates into the stratosphere for everybody. we want people to get premium

relief. we've come up with a proposal that not only ensures that people's taxes don't get raised so the typical working class person when they play hardball with the insurance company they will see the premiums go down and get money in their wallet. >> does it force people to get insurance? in many cases, people young and healthy and most likely not to get sick, in many cases if they are starting their careers, they don't want to spend $300 on health insurance when they can spend it on rent for a nice apartment. does your plan force people to have insurance? >> we do believe there ought to be personal responsibility that all of us ought to take some steps to get a basic health care package. i think the reason most people in this country don't have health coverage is because it isn't affordable. and members of congress have an approach where they get to make choices. the insurance companies can't discriminate against them. health care coverage becomes affordable. so we do say that there ought to be some personal responsibility in terms of health care reform but we make coverage affordable

so that those people will be in a position to get some security. >> but, senator, as you know, car insurance is the best example i can think of. the government mandates if i want to drive a car i must eninsure that vehicle because i'm a risk to everybody if i'm driving an uninsured vehicle and i hit her car and i have no money. how is that any different for a young person who, if they are hit by a car nemselves, will incur health care expenses but the government is not forcing them into the same coverage that person would be forced into with an automobile. in other words, don't you have to mandate everybody participate in a private or public plan of some kind in order for the cost to come down and in order for the math m&m mattics of insurance to work? >> yeah. if you don't have personal responsibility that brings all of us into the system, it is very hard to get the maximum containment. if you want to get the maximum benefit for the public, which means lowering premiums, you've

got to get everybody into the system. and i do believe that the people that you're talking about right now, we're all paying for it. folks go to the hospital emergency room. those costs are spread to everybody else and the person who has insurance is getting clobbered now. let's figure out a way to make sure the people you're talking about who don't have insurance can get a good deal with our good free choice proposal and they will be able to play hardball with the insurance companies and get coverage that is affordable. >> so i understand this. if i'm an employee and i want to leave my job and doing something entrepreneurial, say, contessa and i have an idea and want to start a business together. if your plan and those on the plan with you on this were to be implemented how would it be different for us if we were to leave ge and we have corporate health care here and to go out into our own garage and try and start a business? >> first of all, we have concrete benefits for you and

contessa in that situation. right now, if, for example, you've had a pre-existing condition, there's something we called an entrepreneurship tax. you may have a good idea but you if have a pre-existing condition you will go out to the insurance market and won't be able to get coverage so you have to stay at ge. when we lift that discrimination against people with pre-existing illnesses you will be able to take your idea and set up a new business with contessa and the kind of insurance reforms we're talking about, i think, are going to be very pro entrepreneur. >> for example, we go to a website and have literally choices of different -- high deductible, low deductible, comprehensive family coverage, just hospitalization. give me a picture we're looking at if your plan was to become law. >> you would have a full menu like members of congress do. i checked the other day. members of congress, they sign up in the washington, d.c. area and have more than 20 alternatives and they are very

different alternatives than what the american people face. you can't discriminate. you go into a big group. much lower administrative costs. that's the kind of approach that we're talking about and you'll get a printed booklet. you can compare the alternatives online. you absolutely have to have full transparency and that is what the authors of our legislation propose. >> my concern, when you look at the lobbying is either the health insurance industry will be able to protect its profit margins at america's expense or that other consortiums like labor unions be able to preserve their power at america's expense. do you think you can overcome those forces that are, obviously, going to resist a more competitive market for health insurance? >> we believe we can beat the status quo quackus caucus if we take our case to the american people. that is what we are trying to do this summer especially. we will try to close the sale with the insured population and show them with our proposal they

can be healthier and wealthier and they can have much more leverage against the insurance companies that have resisted real competition and get a a much better deal in the future. >> senator, thank you so much for the time. i love the plan, being a proclaimed capitalist, anything that is good for competition, seems to be good for america, in my opinion. i hope you use more of your august time to visit bus and let us know how this goes. we have a big table here. we can play dolls, any way you want. >> i will come in and make sure you and contessa get et bargains like the america congress. >> we're irritated by being excluded from that so we appreciate your help. >> see you this summer. >> thank you. still to come this hour of the meeting, more on that emotional reunion. two american journalists back on u.s. soil after being held in north korea for 140 days. you are watching msnbc. ndefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

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welcome back. much more still ahead in the mex half hour of the meeting. rage against the mob. the dnc hitting back with a brand-new ad and what they believe are organized disruptions. at the same time, the white house firing back against health care hecklers. will their new offensive work and can we get competitive pricing for health care insurance as both democratic and republican senators author this morning their desire to do. free at last, of course, two american journalists jailed in north korea since march are now back on american soil. we'll get a live report on that as well. that's coming up. pollen. when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms

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emotional return today for two american journalists held in north korea for five months before arriving back on american soil today. nbc's mike viqueira joins us from the white house. >> when the two journalists first touched down in burbank and came down the jetway to an emotional greeting with their family. a tearful reunion as you can imagine. laura ling some emotional words. >> we saw standing before us president bill clinton.

we were shocked, but we knew instantly in our hearts that the nightmare of our lives was finally coming to an end. >> and you see al gore standing behind these two women who had been captured on march 17th by north korean forces and they worked for al gore's current tv and they were there filming a documentary about human trafficking seized by the nearance and held. many back channel communications had been open. we've learned over the last 24 hours here at the white house saying this is purely a private trip and, yet, officials behind the scenes instrumental in making this happen and getting bill clinton to take that trip. it was learned last week that the north koreans would, in fact, allow these two women to be released if bill clinton came

to north korea and that is exactly what happened and we see the fruits of that labor here this morning. dylan? >> all right. thank you so much, mike. as heartwarming as this story is, the contrast back in the east in pennsylvania equally tragic. contessa with the latest that shooting yesterday and the balance of the day's news. >> we're learning chilling new details about the suspected gunman who killed the three women before taking his own life at a gym, a health club in suburban pittsburgh, pennsylvania. alison kartveld is on the scene there. what have investigators learned about the motive? >> they aren't speaking of moat vif right now. they won't even identify the shooter but other media sources have done that and in looking at his blog, george sodini was very preoccupied with his discontent and hatred toward women. the 48-year-old wrote things such as women just don't like me. there are 30 million desirable

women in the you said, my estimate, and i cannot find one. so after talking about this on his blog site for over a year about how he was lonely and how he wasn't getting along with his family, he did finally act out and here is what one witness told us what it was like inside that room after he started firing. >> all of us girls were just ducking behind each other and it was just -- you know, i was behind a girl, one of the girls in front to get hit and then when he was in the opposite corner shooting, i booked it. >> a lot of people booked it out of there, contessa. there were an estimated probably 60 to 70 people in the gym at that time. people went scrambling out the front, out the back. there were some people who were heroic enough to stop and pick up people who had been shot and try and get them out to safety. but it was just a madhouse because no one knew that the gunman apparently took his own life. all this shooting spree took place within a minute and within that minute, officials say with

multiple guns he fired off more than 50 rounds. contessa? >> so sad. alison, thanks for bringing us up-to-date. president obama is head to go one of the areas most hit by the recession today. the president left andrews air force base about an hour ago bound for elkhart, indiana. talk about the stimulus and announce 2 billion dollars in grants aimed at creating electric cars and jobs. msnbc.com has been following the struggles of the folks in elkhart who has seen the fastest rise in unemployment in 9 nation. 16.8 in june. we'll bring you the president's remarks live when they get underway that is happened before noon eastern on msnbc. right now, debate underway in the senate for judge sonia sotomayor's nomination to the supreme court. senate republicans are expected to criticize the first hispanic nominee of the high court but with a handful of them breaking ranks to join democrats in

backing sotomayor. her confirmation is all but assured. mahmoud ahmadinejad was sworn in for a second term as president of iran today. and protesters took the streets near parliament. they were chanting death to the dictator and some wore black t-shirts as a sign of grief. the opposition had called for demonstrations to coincide with the inauguration. all three of ahmadinejad's election challengers boycotted the swearing in ceremony at parliament. dylan? >> thank you very much, contessa. next up another example of disruption in america. the birthers still at it. the health care protesters. are these just organized groups trying to distract the political agenda or is there evidence of real uprising in america? we will talk left, right, and center on the subject of birthers uprising in america. ( upbeat music playing )

what do you say to a spin around the color wheel? to paint with primer already mixed in? test samples instead of can commitments? what do you say we dip into our wallets less and grab a hold of the latest tools out there so we can quit all that messing around with extra steps and get busy turning our doing dials up a notch? more saving. more doing. my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out ofy purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.

democrats pushing back hard when it comes to the root cent rising outbursts at town hall meetings among other things. contessa, what is going on? >> here are democrats, right? they're saying enough is enough of these big, loud interruptions at town hall meetings. house majority leader steny hoyer was the latest to get the treatment at an event in upstate new york. >> let me tell you the facts. >> no. lie. >> listen! >> for the last three months, housing starts are up in america. last three months. jobs -- >> you're lying to me! >> what are you waiting for? >> i don't have sophisticated language. i recognize a lawyer when i see one. >> lie! >> ladies and gentlemen --

>> wow. democratic national committee is taking on the republican party and fighting back with a new ad. >> desperate republicans and their well-funded allies are organizing angry mobs just like they did during the election. their goal? destroy president obama and stop the change americans voted for overwhelmingly in november. >> the white house is responding to the rise in conservative protests and saying some are manufactured by the right and rnc spokesman say democrats call mob rule? the average american calls democracy. maybe it was democracy at work. >> i have no doubt when there is so much evident problems. whether the banks. bank and health care caper and plots to be irritated with. brad blaken and brad gop strategist and a former member

of george h.w. bush's staff. keith is a former aide to bill clinton. welcome to you both. you argue this is democracy at work? >> you bet it is. look. anybody being arrested? are people being other than loud and boisterous on an issue that touches them daily? health care, the ability to get a job, these are people, average americans, not orchestrated by the republican party. these are people taking to the streets from every segment of society, every class. these are people just voicing their first amendment right. >> i want to get a comment on this from the white house press secretary robert gibbs. take a listen. >> i also have no doubt that there are groups that are -- have spread out people across the country together these things to go to these things and to specifically generate videos that can be posted on internet sites so that people can watch what's happening in america.

>> is this cheap propaganda? >> what's wrong with that? >> i guess what's wrong with that -- i'll let keith speak to it, but what is wrong with that? >> it's being orchestrated by the republican party's other than like fox news and people like rush limbaugh. >> do you know that or do you just believe that? >> this is obvious. >> how is it obvious? >> every day -- fox doesn't tell people you have to do this or that. >> but -- >> but they are putting out the message to the people the birth conspiracy -- >> what does that have to do with health care? >> all of these people are coming together and a coalition of pranks who have created this. >> what did we learn in civil protest? we learned it from you guys. >> what is going on here is the republican party is losing control of its own base. >> oh, please! come on! >> the republican party have all of these different lpts fighting about control of the party. >> you people on the left have lost control of the people what they care about. >> let me ask both of you a question.

i disagree. i think everybody understands what people care about which they feel like they want work in a fair system and their voice can be heard and basically is there a level playing field. whether it's on et left or the right, people become very frustrated and will sort of manifest all sorts of anti-social behavior if they feel it's an unfair society in some way. >> here is the difference. here is the difference. the administration is trying to tell the american people it's health care you have to worry about and they are saying no, it's the economy. i don't have a job. i can't educate my kids. i can't feed my family. that's what concerns them. >> that is not what the administration is saying. the administration started out with the economy. >> started out. and left it. >> they are still focusing on it. any time the republicans have been faced with a proposal from the administration, the republicans say no. when it comes to the stimulus -- >> because your plans are no good! no good! >> claim change -- >> here is the alternative. >> keith, here is the alternative. >> no, no, no. >> we need to get back in power. you guys have it all. >> let me ask you a question. that's fine.

so let's assume that you want to be in power because you think you can do it better than than those who are in power now. for instance a lot of people are very frustrated with the fact no call backs for the competition paid on wall street even though they risked national capital and there was no discount when hank paulson dhivered 100 cents on the dollars by the billions of dollars of american taxpayer money through aig and goldman sachs and others. that there is still nothing done about too big to fail inside the banking system. lists of things that frustrate -- i don't care what your policy is, frustrate taxpayers relative to politicians. if republicans were in power how would you approach the banks differently and health care different? >> here is how i would do. i would make the lawmakers who vote on bills read them and not have them written by staff in the house and senate and by lobbyists is exactly what is happening. >> please. >> focus on health care and

medicare and medicaid which is right with fraughtness management abuse and fix what you provide the public first. >> i guess what strikes me is the republicans had the opportunity. >> thank you. >> for eight years. >> thank you. >> to do these things and didn't do them. the republicans were the ones who were in power at the time that the banking agreement was made which is -- >> now they have all of the power and they can't get anything done. >> but this is not -- listen to what -- >> this is the democrats not the reasons. >> created the system. >> look at what is happening. >> you create the system. >> no, hold on. the democrats you're saying created a system -- no, let me finish! the democrats created a system where the former ceo of goldman sachs is serving -- let me finish! you said they created a system. they created a system where they -- i'm talking about health care and i'll talk about banks. because you brought it up. you brought up the economy. you want to know why the economy is screwed up? because a major national theft was perpetrated by the financial industry. >> aagree with you but who was in charge of regulation? the democrats the last three years. were they jot were they not in

control of the house? didn't control the banking committee. >> no, i know -- rhetoric is useless. let me tell you the facts. those two years had nothing to do with -- >> come on, pleas! >> no, the democrats in 199 and you want to go through the democrats? go after the democrats in 1999. not the past two years. when was the republicans? >> you're wrong. >> no, i'm not. george w. bush enabled 40-1 leverage in 2004 after receiving testimony from then ceo hank paulson and that was the republican. i would argue both the republicans and the democrats have done a terrible job for america, period. and -- >> i agree. >> exactly so let's -- >> let me get in this. say something. obviously,ing we could argue who is responsible till the end of the day but the realty we had election the last november. american people chose barack obama to be the president and chose the democrats to run the house and the senate. give them a chance. >> you've got a chance.

this is a chance. a bill nobody read. the president -- >> give me a chance! >> you got to give him a chance! >> this can't be the policy of the republican party yell everybody down. there has to be some civility in your party. >> we are civil. >> keith, the last word. >> the american people are fed up with this. they had an election and want their leaders an opportunity to lead. if you don't like they do, vote them out in two years. >> we plan to do that. >> give them a chance to do what they were elected to do and what the american people -- >> we will do that. >> not a democratic nor republican strategist, it is obvious health care could be made more efficient than it currency is. ron wyden and bill bennett i think are doing incredible job to solve for this for the american people as opposed to playing left/right, hatfield/mccoy. i think america has had it with that in the time being. the wyden and bennett conversation the more the better. i appreciate both of you joining

us. we are back with our take-away. a very emotional morning meeting today! my goodness but the most emotion, of course, is associated with the return of those two journalists who came home from north korea this morning. we're back after this. ñ

\11am getting breaking news from the associated press. senate majority leader harry reid warning they better come to

agreement for cash for clunkers or miss their august recess. he says he has the votes to take place to the lawmakers can leave as planned on their august vacations. we will be watching it. >> thank you very much. a tear-jerker to say the least today. dramatic and emotional day in this country. glorious return in the west. two american journalists. a tragic event in the east in pennsylvania. america, today, continues to play tremendous contrast and tremendous opportunities. so thank you for spending some of your morning with us. carlos watson picks up msnbc live and karen finney is with him, in fact, after this. pollen.

when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. (announcer) side effects were generally mild and included headache. viral infection, sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and save up to $15 off your refills. go to nasonex.com for details, terms and conditions.

good morning. welcome to a brand-new hour of msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. right now msnbc, an'

emotional homecoming for two journalist after harrowing five months in north korea. >> we knew instantly in our hearts that the nightmare of our lives was finally coming to an end and, now, we stand here home and free. we've got disturbing diary entries from an alleged gunman. the alleged gunman who opened fire inside a health club outside prt killing three women and then hem silve. the government estimates 40% of americans will become infected with swine flu in the coming months. dr. nancy snyderman stops by to tell us if there will be enough vaccines for everyone. paula abdul is leaving oi. "american idol" after eight years she is gone. will the show ever be the same in good wednesday morning.