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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  August 5, 2009 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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from the playbook of high-level republican political operatives. they have no plan for moving our country forward. so, they've called out the mob. >> and i want to know why you people are ignoring this? >> call the republican party. tell them you've had enough of the mob. >> president obama is calling on the people who helped get him elected to campaign for his health care plan. the president sent this e-mail via the pac organizing for america today. we didn't win last year's election together at a committee hearing in d.c. we won it on the doorsteps and the phone lines, at the softball games and the town meetings. and if you're willing to step up once again, that's exactly where we're going to win this historic campaign for the guaranteed, affordable health insurance that every american deserves. the obama white house wants to reignite its support base to take on a legislative agenda. that was why organizing for america was created in the first
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place. but what is the president actually asking his supporters to campaign for? there is no plan yet. there's no consensus bill in the house and the senate. maybe the mob will provide the enemy -- would provide enough motivation, enough of an enemy to rally the liberal base, but at some point obama supporters will ask what exactly are we fighting for? not just what are we fighting against. for example, no show has been more vigilant about the public option than this one. ed schultz has pushed it day in and day out. but today, when nbc's chuck todd asked president obama about what he wants to see in a bipartisan bill, he didn't mention a public option. >> where are you on bipartisanship? >> you know, i am glad that in the senate finance committee there have been a couple of republicans, chuck grassley, mike enzi, olympia snowe, who have been willing to negotiate with democrats to try to produce a bill, but they haven't yet.
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and i think at some point, sometime in september, we're just going to have to make an assessment. my bottom line is if we've got a bill that is reforming insurance practices so that, for example, people with pre-existing conditions aren't losing their health care, if we're cutting the long-term costs of health care and health care inflation so that it's affordable for families, businesses and the federal government, if it's deficit neutral, if it's instituting the kinds of reforms that will improve quality and reduce cost, then i -- that's what i want. >> joining me now is senator sherrod brown, democrat from ohio and a member of the senate committee on health education labor and pensions. senator brown, you've already voted on a reform bill coming out of that committee. it has a public option in it. you didn't hear president obama insist on a public option on what he's looking for coming out of the senate finance committee. would that be a deal breaker for? do you need to see a public option come out of the senate finance committee? >> i don't know for sure. i -- i would have trouble voting
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for any bill that doesn't have a public option. i can't absolutely say no depending on what else is in it. but that's very important to me. it's important to a huge majority of the american public. i don't put a lot of stock in that. that was one interview and the president didn't mention it, mention a public option. he was at the white house yesterday, he mentioned the public option in strong terms to the entire senate democratic caucus. he's mentioned it in speech after speech. organizing for america is behind it. the huge majority in -- we've passed four bills in the congress so far in committee. three different bills in the house and one in the senate in the health, education, labor, pension committee. all four of the bills have a strong public option. all four of these bills have -- have individual mandate with kood subsidies for people that are low income. so, these are the -- these are -- this is what we're talking about. this is the bill that really will matter to the american people. that's what i'm going to be talking about in august. i think others will, too. >> now, once again, the senate
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finance committee is the key committee that everyone's waiting for to come up with a bill that people believe will probably have a better chance of getting through the senate than anything else, and, therefore, something closer to the reality of what the president will be signing. but chairman max baucus on that committee is working right now with mike enzi from wyoming, republican on that committee. you worked with him on the senate committee on eltth education, labor, and pensions, and you could not make a deal with him on any kind of bipartisan plan. what do you think max baucus' chances? are you tried. senator dodd tried. senator kennedy tried and they failed. can max baucus bring something to make mike enzi come up with a deal that you guys couldn't come up with? >> it's hard for me to figure out. mike enzi represents a state of 600,000 or 700,000 people. >> he represents a state of 540,000 people. fewer than live on staten island. you represent a state of 11 million.
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that is more people than all six senators on the finance committee who are behind the closed door right now combined. >> they all represent very small states. not only that, but mike enzi -- mike enzi didn't win the election. >> right. >> the voters said they want something different. let me point out one other thing. i was on the -- we had 11 days of markup. 11 days of considering amendments in the health committee. i've been in the house and senate for 16, 17 years now. and i've never seen a bill, in all this time, that had that much -- that much attention paid to it, that many amendments, that long a period of markup. we accepted 160 republican amendments. this is a bipartisan bill. it's just not bipartisan when the big, fundamental issues. but neither was medicare. we would have never gotten medicare 40 years ago if everybody waited for the conservative republicans on board. it's a different view. i will accept them when they work for my values and i think they are good for the middle-class and good for my state. but the big issues like public
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option, like subsidies for low-income people, like some of the prevention and wellness stuff, there's a difference between the two parties. and senator enzi is just not where the majority of this country is on these issues. >> and at what point do you say to max baucus, give up, just go with the democrats on your committee? at what point does the pressure from outside of his committee force his hand? >> well, some people think it already should have. i think the reason that -- that, in a lot of ways, the democrats seem to be losing this public debate with all the anger aimed at democrats is that there is not a bill to talk about. there is a bill to talk about, the health committee bill, but all the focus is on the negotiations among those six, three republicans and three fairly conservative democrats. and so we've lost our message. there's a deadline of september 15th. we need to enforce it, if senator baucus can't get a deal by then, we need to move forward and pass this bill. and we should use the health committee bill, which is mainstream, democratic bill, mainstream american bill, and
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begin to move it through the senate. >> but we won't get into it now, but, you know, there's all sorts of jurisdictional problems since your committee has no jurisdiction over medicare, it could be a unique approach to the senate floor to try to go down there without the senate finance committee having exercised its jurisdiction first, wouldn't it? >> i know you worked on that committee and you're right about that. but the house of representatives has dealt with all aspects of this through their three different committees. once the bill gets to conference committee, we can work a lot of it out, so it has -- it's a bill similar to health combined with some of the stuff in the house. that's too much inside baseball, but we need the finance committee to do something, but they've got to put out something by -- beginning on september 15th if they can't get republicans to go along. they may get olympia snowe, well, because she's more of a moderate. but enzi and grassley are much more conservative lawmakers, if they're satisfied, it means a lot of others aren't, including, i think, a majority of the
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country. >> all right, we'll see if the new deadline holds, senator brown. thank you for joining us today. >> thank you, appreciate it. joining me now is democratic congressman lloyd doggett from texas. congressman doggett, you had one of the famous events where you were basically kind of chased into your car and out of there by these -- these protesters. >> well, lawrence, that's really the right-wing spin on it. they dribbled out a little videotape. what it doesn't show is i spent an hour discussing and debating this bill and listening to all the taunts and the pictures of the tombstones with my name on it. and they showed some video at the end when their noise got so loud, it just wasn't productive to stay any longer. democrats shouldn't flee. we need to stand and fight these people. >> all right, so now you're telling me something i didn't know based on this imagery. you feel you had a productive meeting -- >> no, i wouldn't say it was productive. i stood my ground and debated with them this bill. listened to all their laughable
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objections to the bill. explained why a public plan, a public option, is essential, and then what they did after their views were expressed and responded to, they shouted down their neighbors because they didn't want to hear the views of other people. and when it became obvious a little over an hour that they wouldn't let other people speak, i decided to move on to the next event. they followed me to two more events, and finally in one of them, the police had to kind of separate out a couple of their members. they were interested in disruption, not dialogue. >> i want to read you an account of one of the people who was there, one of the protesters who appeared in the "new york times." and you tell me if this is -- obviously there's coloration in it. but how accurate is this. this person said the congressman jumped in his car and fled. it was like he was tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. it was a beautiful thing. is that the way it felt to you, like you were being tarred and feathered? >> to theal nonsense, but it is part of the right-wing spin that they want to drop the fight. we can't do that.
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nor can we be caught up in the fight. it's the substance of this that counts. the great words you just got from my friend sherrod brown are important. let me just explain that on this public option, i view it as absolutely essential. we need to give individuals that choice. and we need to force some competition among these insurers that aren't competing for health care providers now. the congressional budget office has said that under our plan, even if it's not weakened by all this blue dog nonsense, that under our plan in ten years, 96% of the population under 65 will be in private insurance plans, and 4% will be in the public plan. how much more do we have to compromise? they got 96%. i think what we have is a fair and reasonable approach. and we need to pass it in september in the house and insist the senate do the same thing. >> congressman doggett, do you really see it as nonsense from the blue dogs? i mean, you're a democrat from texas. you know what it's like to -- to
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try to work democratic party politics in a state that is fundamentally unfriendly to the democratic party at this point, so i would expect you to have a sensitivity about what blue dogs are up against. are they in your mind exaggerating what they need to be able to get in this bill in order to be able to live with their own electorate? are they in sense underestimating what their own electorate are willing to support? >> there's a big difference between blue dog and blue doggett on health care. i agree with some of their terms on costs. what i was particularly referring to as nonsense was their effort to limit the public plan even further to restrict it to negotiate prices. that's not a good approach. it weakens the public plan. it's already been weakened too much. >> now, are you going to get back out there and try to do more town meetings? the problem with this kind of shouting is ten shouters can drown out 100 supporters, can't they? >> that is a problem. and we need people to come out and recognize, don't just leave
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this to president obama and the democratic congress. you have a responsibility as a citizen, if you want to see genuine health care reform. but, yes, tomorrow, lawrence, i'll be meeting with the veterans in a public meeting about health care. on saturday with community health centers. next monday with teachers and school personnel here in austin. we need to be out there spreading the message. not letting the mob rule. >> all right. congressman doggett, thank you very much for joining us today. >> thank you. >> and good luck being heard out there on the trail when you're trying to explain this thing. >> thank you. all right, coming up, a meeting with -- meeting and dinner with kim jong-il, 3 hours, 15 minutes. being relevant on the world stage again? absolutely priceless. maureen dodd takes on the big dog's diplomacy as only she can. that's next on "the ed show."
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who are the real bad guys in the health care reform battle? is it really the lobbyists, or
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are they just the scapegoats? i'll put it to our panel coming up on the bottom of the hour on the "ed show." this is the primo stuff. choose one appetizer and two premium entrees. just twenty bucks-every day. start with our spinach and artichoke dip or boneless buffalo wings. then two signature entrees, like our seven ounce house sirloin or oriental chicken salad. genuine food. generous portions. genius price. 2 for $20! only at applebee's.
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30 hours ago euna lee and i were prisoners in north korea, and then suddenly we were told that we were going to a meeting. we were taken to a location, and when we walked in through the doors, we saw standing before us
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president bill clinton. >> welcome back. that was laura ling, shortly after she and euna lee reunited with their families in los angeles this morning. in the starring role of this made-for-tv drama, former president bill clinton, whose diplomatic pinch hitting brought the journalists home after months of backdoor negotiations. joining me now on the phone is "new york times" columnist maureen dodd. maureen, in your column today, you -- entitled "let the big dog run," you said, hillary and president obama looked bigger when they share the stage with other talented players, and barack and bill have finally started to put south carolina behind them, without the need for a beer summit photo-op. maureen, this certainly puts the beer summit in the rear view mirror at the white house. they couldn't have asked for a better time to look like they
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can do something efficiently, right? >> well, you know, i think when obama chose hillary, he set himself the most delicate task that anyone could have, which is to extract the great things that the clintons can do from the sometimes dysfunctional, you know, cloud above their heads. and as is the wont with bill, it's already gotten a little dysfunctional, because i was just talking to our brilliant state department reporter, mark lambler, and they are saying they do not know how to get bill clinton into the white house now to debrief him, that he has taken a plane to chappaqua, so they do not have the information that they're dying to get. because as one of the white house people said to landler, you can't summon an ex-president to the white house, and they're worried that there's a little bit of this on clinton's side, well, obama, you weren't in a rush, you weren't falling off over yourself to call me, and now i won't be falling all over
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myself to talk to you. they were talking to him on the phone as they did with hillary, they need to get him in a secure room, which hillary may have at chappaqua, because she's the state department chief. but, again, as with everything bill, this is why we love him. it's a hilarious situation. unique in the annals of diplomacy. >> maureen, how much arm twisting do you think it took to convince bill clinton to get on a plane to go rescue two damsels in distress? >> as you know, because you've written the brilliant scenes for "west wing" i'm sure it took none. and my favorite thing is the "new york post" headline "bubba gets the chicks." >> yeah, this is the call that he's been waiting for for a while. now, does this indicate any possibility of some other roles they could ask bill clinton to play down the road? suppose, if they're struggling with the aftermath of this one for a while, that will inhibit
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their enthusiasm for asking him to do anything else. >> well, i think he can be, you know, play a wonderful role, but as with everything with clinton, it's a little dicey. for instance, he couldn't take, you know, a -- an air force plane, so he took bing's plane, you know, who's one of his hollywood playmates. and the bada-bing plane, you know, where allegedly wild goings-on happen. so, you know, there's always just that touch of diceyness with bill, but that's what makes him such a great story. >> yeah, steve bing's plane. >> sorry, right. >> you need a very comfortable plane to cross the pacific, and you need room for the damle da you're going to be rescuing. that's a reasonable choice to make. >> he had the extra spritz, because he had the assignment and bill richardson and jimmy carter who he has had all the
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fraught relationships with. >> do you think there's one other seething politician at this moment in california who is thinking why didn't i get the call, the governor of california? who better to rush in there and grab one in each arm and pull them back up onto the plane? >> yeah, he's played that role before. well, maybe once he gets finished, they can start using him. as long as hillary isn't threatened by these high-profile env envoys, i mean, it's fantastic. there are so many things wrong with the world, let all the peacocks roam. >> maureen, thank you very much for giving us the backstage elements of how this thing is unfolding. >> thank you. >> thanks, maureen. >> bye. coming up, choosing sides in the confirmation of sonia sotomayor to the supreme court. why it may be less about her and much more about a date in 2010. that's next on "the ed show." i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack. my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.
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the senate will vote this week to confirm sonia sotomayor to the supreme court. whether or not she'll be seated has never been the issue. all of the senate democrats and independents will vote for her. and even though 28 republicans have said they'll oppose her, she'll still have twice as many votes from the republicans as justice samuel alito got from the democrats when he was confirmed in 2006. specifically senators john john mccain and bob bennett, who are up for re-election next year. senator kay bailey hutchison who is running for governor of texas, and florida governor
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charlie crist who is running for an open senate seat. all four face primary challenges from the conservative wing of their party. senator mccain of arizona is up against chris simcox who founded the minute man civil defense corps, he's one of the leaders for cracking down hard on illegal immigration. mccain played to the right and announced his decision to vote against a supreme court nominee for the first time in his 22-year senate career. >> regardless of one's success in academics and in government service, an individual who does not appreciate the commonsense limitations on judicial power in our democratic system of government ultimately lacks a key qualification for a lifetime appointment to the bench. for this reason, and no other, i'm unable to support judge sotomayor's nomination.
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>> that's what an incumbent united states senator looks like when he is terrified of a primary challenge. senator bennett of utah faces at least four primary challengers, all of whom are more conservative than he is, and they're all after him for not being conservative enough, so voting against sotomayor, knowing it will have absolutely no effect on the outcome is an easy way for bennett to utah republicans he's still got some conservative moxie. as for senator hutchinson, she's about to leave the senate and focus on her gubernatorial campaign, but she's sticking around just long enough to vote against sotomayor. she's looking ahead to a primary showdown with incumbent governor rick perry. you'll remember him. he's one of the t.e.a. party enthusiasts and someone who has actually entertained the notion of secession for texas. finally, florida governor charlie crist doesn't get a say in the confirmation of sotomayor, no governors do, but that didn't stop him from coming out against her anyway.
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he said in a statement, i cannot support her appointment to the united states supreme court. i have strong concerns that judge sotomayor would not strictly and objectively construe the constitution and lacks respect for the fundamental right to keep and bear arms. the governor is, of course, running for the senate seat being vacated by republican senator mel martinez, who incidentally, has said he will vote to confirm sotomayor. but crist is up against cuban-american marco rublio, former speaker of the florida house and a conservative who also opposes sotomayor. they obviously think that coming out against sotomayor will help them in a tough primary battle. but on the national level, opposing the first latina supreme court justice is political suicide for the republican party. only 20% of the ever-increasing hispanic population has a favorable view of the republican party. so pandering to the
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ever-decreasing republican base of white conservatives might still be the easiest way to win republican primaries, but it is also the easiest way to lock the republican party into permanent minority status. coming up, what's really gumming up the health care debate? i'll talk about it with our panel, next on "the ed show." at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed.
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health care reform has proved to be a hard sell for president obama and the democrats, but what's really gumming up the health care debate? is it the complexity of the policy, philosophical differences across the political spectrum or the influence of special interests? let's put it to our panel. jonathan alter is a senior editor for "newsweek" and the author of "the defining moment, fdr's 100 days and the triumph of hope." chris frate is a reporter for politico, and kevin madden is a former senior adviser to mitt
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romney's presidential campaign and managing director of the glover park group. chris, what is going on here? are we seeing simply the philosophical end of the spectrum that mike enzi represents in the finance committee negotiations going up against the thinking of, say, a kent conrad, or are we seeing the -- the lobbyists secretly or not so secretly controlling this debate by pulling the strings from outside the room? >> i think what you are seeing is a mix of that. what you are seeing is a senate finance committee working very hard. max baucus has five other senators that he has working very hard to make sure he can come to some kind of bipartisan solution. and when you get down to the details, the very granular kinds of policy debates, it gets very hard about what the role of government should be. at the same time, you have outside interest groups from the insurance companies, to the pharmaceuticals, to the consumer groups, all working to make sure that they get their piece of this. and nobody wants to be left out.
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and that's why you're seeing so many, we're pro-reform messages, but so many concerns from guys like the chamber or the insurance companies who don't like this public plan. so, it's a bit of a mix. it's a really, really difficult cocktail and i think of all the debates we see in washington recently, this one is equal parts policy and politics. >> kevin madden, when ron -- when mitt romney was governor of massachusetts, health care bill went through there and went through this entire process, and something came out that he was able to sign with the support of ted kennedy. what was different about that process than what you're seeing now? >> well, the first thing you have to remember about that process, lawrence, was that it took two years. the obama administration and this congress are trying to do this in the space of about eight months. so, that's one big difference. i think the other was there was really true bipartisanship. governor romney's bill passed, i think it was something like 198-2 with a democratic legislature with the support of
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lion on this issue like ted kennedy, and it was also crafted with a great deal of input from republicans, democrats, and industries and hospitals and all the key stakeholders in the process. and that, along with the fact that it took two years, was the reason that he had a successful universal health care bill. >> jonathan, do you see any political lessens from massachusetts that apply to this case now? >> yeah. massachusetts has done a great job insuring people, but they've done an awful job in paying for it. >> that's part of it. >> so, that's why they are focused, you know, on the revenue side, and that's a lot of hard rock breaking in that senate finance committee. you know, but one of the big questions is, what will the insurance industry have to pay in exchange for getting 30 million new customers? people forget, this is a huge, huge windfall for the insurance industry. it's not like they're taking it on the chin.
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we're talking about tens of millions of new customers for the insurance industry. so, they're making it seem -- they're crying, you know, these crocodile tears, oh, we're going to be driven out of business. this is huge for them. so, they're trying to set up a deal where they don't actually have to give up very much in exchange for that. and the burden on the legisla r legislators should be to make sure that they get some kind of competition, if not from a public plan, then from a co-op, as they call it, that has real teeth and can really compete with those insurance companies and otherwise regulate them so that they can't screw real people, which they've been doing for many, nanny years now. >> it's reminiscent of the medical profession's opposition to medicare at the time when it turned out medicare was going to be the way -- the thing that was going to make them richer than anything else that had ever come along. >> chris, what about that? there's something peculiar to me in nancy pelosi telling her troops as they go off for
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august, make this hard attack on the insurance companies, portray the insurance companies as the most evil force in america, but their legislation, as jonathan's pointed out, preserves the insurance companies and by government order delivers new customers to them, how do you condemn them when you're running a health care reform that requires them? >> because, what the speaker also wants to do is sell this idea of a public plan. now, this would be a plan where everybody could apply to it. it would be open and part of the insurance, the new insurance landsca landscape. and that has the insurance companies' hackles up in a big, big way. they believe it's a back door to a single payer. it will lead to a system that they as private companies will not be able to compete with a government option. that's very scary to them. so, what nancy pelosi is telling democrats to do is go out there and paint the insurance companies as folks who don't want to compete, they don't want to have to offer better rates to people.
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they don't want to have to offer better coverage. and the messaging by the insurance companies, the chamber of commerce, a number of business groups, has been that this public plan will drive the employer-based system out of existence. so, that is what the speaker is responding to, is a very real fear that if that message continues to resonate and we continue to see polls fall for the public plan, that by the time they come back in september, they won't -- the public option will no longer be a palpable political sell, and they need to keep that on the table for the next five weeks so that when congress returns they have a real shot at passing it. >> but, kevin madden, it seems to me what republicans are doing with the pelosi attack on the companies to say, look, this reveals what she really wants, she really does want to drive them out of business with this public option, and in a certain sense, they're trying to use pelosi's energy against those companies as a rationale for why they are actually opposing this
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public option plan. >> no, that's right. and i think that, you know, on the fulcrum of this whole debate on costs and crowd-outs is being balanced on the fulcrum of whether or not democrats in some of these plans, some of these proposals and anything that includes a public option would essentially be punitive towards the -- the health insurance industry, that you have many republicans -- i'm sorry, you have many democrats that actually do want to drive these guys out of business. and this is a debate, i think, that's largely being observed by many of the persuadables. they under that they like their care. they like their doctor. they always think costs can go down, but now they're worried that they're actually going to get dropped out of their private insurance and be forced into a public plan, so i think that's where the debate is going on. >> jonathan, what is the right course for pelosi and her troops? there seems to be this message that they're trying to drive -- they would like to drive the insurance companies out of business. on the other hand, they are insisting they don't want to do that. so, what do they need to say to be convincing about this? >> i think they need to say
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"just say yes." the republicans are the party of no. the democrats should be the party of yes. there must be a bill. when i hear liberals say, well, i can't vote for any bill that doesn't include a public option, what planet are they living on? they want to have nothing to help people who have pre-existing conditions and can't get insurance, people who are thrown out of work, they get sick and then are completely at sea? the democrats want to abandon those people? yes, i'm totally for a public option. it's the right thing to do. but the main thing is there must be a bill. the message should be health, security for everyone. >> so, would you -- would you lay off the demonization of the companies and just push on that positive, we've got to do something? >> i think a little of bit of demonization helps to rally the base, but they don't want to take it to the point that some democrats in the house have, where they're actually saying, you know, they're believing their own demonization to the point where they -- >> yes, yes. >> -- where they're actually saying that they prefer no bill
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to the one that, you know, doesn't meet all of the -- if you had said to democrats two years ago this is a bill that is going to, you know, end the discrimination against people who are sick, that's going to greatly expand access to care, do preventive things, all other kind of wonderful things, they would have said, my god, that's fantastic, and now they're saying, no, that's not good enough. that's fine if it's a negotiating position. but if they actually believe that and it actually hurts the eventual approval of this bill, it would be tragic. all right, we'll hold it there for a minute. coming up, the democrats are taking on the screaming mob. what's the best response in our panel is going to go to that next. (announcer) that ball is going, going, gone! home run! (announcer) he's sweet. even with one third less sugar than soda kool-aid. delivering more smiles per gallon. have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents.
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global economy and ensure that our businesses can grow and innovate, we also have to pass health insurance reform that brings down costs. i promise you, we will pass reform by the end of this year, because the american people need it. the american people need some relief. >> that was president obama speaking today in indiana. the president is trying on to rally the american people behind his health care reform plan, and he's banking on the idea that the kind of organization that helped get him elected can help push him back -- can help push back against the astroturf protests trying to derail his health care plan. let me bring back the panel, jonathan alter, chris frates, and kevin madden. do the democrats a favor today, help them how to counter the organized protest that is showing up at every congressman's, you know, town hall rally about health care reform where they've got ten people shouting down the 100 people who want to listen. >> you're trying to ruin my republican street cred here by
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making me give advice to democrats. look, i think the key to success for barack obama in 2008 was independents, it was building the broad coalition of voters along with his progressive base, and, you know, i think he did that bying very post-partisan and he did so by offering solutions. he's done the solutions part. he's talked in very broad terms. he sketched out health care principles. he hasn't really gotten into the specifics, and i think that's starting to hurt him. but i think where he has failed is that he has been quite partisan here. he hasn't reached out to the independents that are going to move this in a 25-point swing one way or the other. she hasn't persuaded them yet that this does what the american people want to do on health care, which is control costs. right now it's filtered back very easily to the american public, particularly independents, that this -- there is $1 trillion plus worth of health care in the proposals, but there's very little reform. >> chris, do the democrats in the white house have a plan for being heard during the month of august, during the congressional recess, for being heard over the
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screaming mob? >> absolutely. they have the president of the united states on their side, and what they will do is take a very coordinated effort through social networking sites, we're talking facebook, twitter, the bully pulpit of the president, will have his whole entire cabinet spread across the nation talking about health care. the same kinds of sebelius, specter events that we saw in philadelphia a few days ago, look for that. they are blanketing the airways and blanketing town hall meetings and that's in coordination with what the democrats are doing. they have been issued talking-point cards about how much more legislation and how many people will be covered and how much money it will save. they will send those kind of notes out across the nation to law makers and their constituents as they move forward here. it's very coordinated. and as you watch this kind of happen, the most interesting thing i think is going to be the democrat response to all these protesters. and what chris van hollen who
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oversees the election of house democrats is saying, we're not going to do anything. we're not going to inflame these folks. because we believe it will boomerang back on the republican party and make them look bad. when they are hanging our members in effigy, that kind of extremism won't play with the american people. we'll see how the strategy plays out. >> it was an interesting strategy in the obama speech in indiana, because mow of the detail in that speech was about his economic plan, and specifically what his economic plan has delivered to the city he's standing in at the time he's giving the speech. and health care was just folded in, as a smaller piece in a much larger speech. and for me, strategically, that seemed much more effective, because he had a lot to talk about in terms of what they've already done and what seemed like a very competent way, and folding it into that seemed like a pretty successful way of getting it across. >> well, elkhart, indiana, for obama is like peoria, illinois, was for nixon. >> four times in the last 18 months. >> i went with him the first
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time he went in may of 2008. and at that time unemployment there was 6%. then it shot up, because of unemployment and they are -- >> 16.8% today. >> it actually went to 20%, close to 20%. now it's down to 16.8%. so, they're seeing some signs of progress. but this is close to depression-era unemployment. so, when he goes there, he has to be talking jobs, jobs, jobs. and to the extent that health care relates to this -- and this is part of what is a very powerful message, if properly used by democrats -- it has to be, for lack of a better word, a fear message, if you lose your job and then you're going to lose your health insurance, then where are you? this bill, all of these bills, address that problem. it hasn't been as controversial as the public option and some other things, so most people don't even know about it, that it ends that worry. it ends that fear for all americans. health security now and forever should be the message of this administration.
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it goes right to that gut issue, people's concern about what happens if they lose their jobs. if it's done as an abstraction or about costs, then people say, well, why do we have to spend $1 trillion to save $1 trillion? people don't get that. it's very confusing. it needs to be about anxiety over what happens if you lose your job. >> all right. white house, listen to this guy. jonathan alter, that's the message. coming up, tonights "playbook" the president's away-game strategy. nbc news political director, chuck todd, joins us with what he said and didn't say about health care reform. it's next on "the ed show." hi, may i help you? yes, i hear progressive has lots of discounts on car insurance. can i get in on that? are you a safe driver? yes. discount! do you own a home? yes. discount! are you going to buy online? yes! discount! isn't getting discounts great? yes!
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there's no discount for agreeing with me. yeah, i got carried away. happens to me all the me. helping you save money -- now, that's progressive. call or click today. but i did. you need to talk to your doctor about aspirin. you need to be your own advocate. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yrself.
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. in the playbook tonight. besides the obamas -- this is president obama's away game. the president, the word "president" should be on one line of the teleprompter. the president hit the road to sell the success of his economic policy it's in elkhart, in. it's his fourth trip to the rv manufacturing capital of the world in the last 15 months. else be hart at 16.8%. joining me now is chuck todd. i don't need a teleprompter for that. who interviewed the president today. chuck, it seemed the speech today was much more about jobs,
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much more of what he's promising to elkhart in health care reform. i heard jonathan also make this point about peoria. the illinois politics, one time senator barack obama. as elkhart goes so does the obama presidency. the community and obama's presidency are intertwined and i showed that headline to the president and he agreed. he said, absolutely. he said if i can come back here in four years and show progress and show that elkhart is moving forward, he can make the case that he's turning the economy around. if he can't, and the midwest isn't feeling good. we know what the political map looks like. the midwest which dramatically went dem in the '06 and. '08 election.
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they're very economically sensitive. >> chuck, do you get any credit in elkhart for the unemployment rate coming down? >> it's tough because he came here in february and it was about 15%. it peaked at that number of almost 20 that jonathan alter referenced in that last segment. think about this. that means it's 1 in 6 people. that means most people do not live, have at least a neighbor, if they're not unemployed, their neighbor is unemployed. when you think about that, 1 in 6 adults. three houses in a row. two family incomes. 1 in 6 people is unemployed. they're not feeling the credit yesterday. msnbc.com is covering the recession through the prism of elkhart. these residents, they were fair questions but it was very raw. actually, my favorite one because i got to get on health care for say minute. somebody said just get it past,
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mr. president. just ram it through, do what you have to do. that was somebody supportive of him. it's very raw. people are just wondering they need health care, they need their jobs and they need help now. >> and the public does seem to be losing confidence in his ability to lose health care as promised. in fact, we get the quinnipiac poll, 21% will keep his promise. that makes it much more difficult, doesn't it? >> it is. when i asked him that question about the partisanship. you and i talked about this. you're a veteran of the hill. you know how that sausage is made. and the uncomfortable relationship, sometimes, between the white house and congress. i'll tell you what, what the president said, when september comes along, we may rethink our strategy. meaning he's ready to do this with 50 votes.
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do it in reconciliation. >> we're going have to wrap it up there. >> through reconciliation and get it done. >> that's it. i'll see you back here tomorrow. 6:00 p.m. eastern, "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. big bill. we'll play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington, leading off tonight, the return. that's the story tonight, the return of those two women journalists from north korea. here it comes as well, the return of bill clinton. that's the story that will emerge in the days and weeks and month and perhaps days ahead. it's really when you think about it, a story of the man and a moment. 4 1/2 months after they were captured in north korea, two american journalists are back on american soil. and they've got a former president to thank for it.
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laura ling and euna lee had an emotional and teary home come wig their families sat bob hope airport at burbank, california. right behind him was the former u.s. president. the north koreans made it clear that the journalists' release would not happen without him. bill clinton torn apart in the presidential campaign is now right there on the political map again. but where? are we looking at a new era in american diplomacy, barack obama, hillary clinton, bill clinton? the entire world isn't 'thys with, of course. n neoconservatives who helped march us blindfolded into iraq they don't like it. they don't like any deal that smacks of peace. we'll debate that just ahead. and the group that's been called the most influential religious organization in washington, it's known as the family, the author jeff charlotte says they are dedicated to the rio