power and the powerful. john ensign and mark sanford are among the names associated with that group. we'll talk to judge charlotte on "hardball" tonight. plus, the people disrupting those congressional town hall meetings. we know these are organized by the right and the white house and the democratic national committee are now determined to make them the face of republican opposition to health care. is this going to work? that's in the politics fix tonight. perhaps no one was happy to see bill clinton back in the news with those two young women than the late night comedians. highlights in the "hardball" sideshow. we begin with bill clinton's successful mission to north korea. dee dee myers was president clinton's press secretary. and michael was the senior top aide in fact to former vice president al gore. this is one of those strange moments. it's not what bill clinton did. he just did this ministerial role. he went over there but all his prestige from an accumulation of 40 years in public life was with those north koreans wanted.

they wanted class, they got it. >> right. bill clinton remains a global rock star. he's one of the most visible people in the world, one of the most popular people in the world, beloved in countries around the world and the north koreans wanted him. >> they wanted to be around this guy, didn't they? >> well, they wanted -- they wanted something that somebody of that stature accrues to a rogue nation like north korea. and you know, i think the president clinton was very careful not to do anything. you didn't even see him smiling in the official pictures. >> talk about his conduct in a minute. >> he was fearful of not being used and yet not getting what he wanted. >> i thought he was like a p.o.w. with his fingers crossed. here's what that freed journalist laura ling said this morning about bill clinton. it got to me. here is he is. let's listen. >> and we were taken to a location, and when we walked through the doors, we saw standing before us president bill clinton.

we were shocked. but we knew instantly in our hearts that the nightmare of our lives was finally coming to an end. and now, we stand here home and free. >> wow. mike, i was caught up in that emotionally. i mean, i walk in a room and there he is. now, i guess you know, regis philbin could have been there and she might have been just as happy but i don't think so. there's something iconic about big bill clinton. in a way he's his own thanksgiving day float. i mean, the guy is bigger than life, and here he is with the statement, you're free. >> well, sure. i think he said, there are very few people who could have pulled this off. maybe there was nobody who could

have pulled this off. >> not because of what he did. what do you mean by that? who he is? >> i think he handled this very deftly and there was a team of people who worked behind the scenes to try to ensure their release. >> what do you know about that? >> i know what the administration has said. john podesta this morning -- >> there were a lot of smart people involved in this and the administration was very smart to delink this with their negotiations with north korea over the nuclear program to put this in the hands of a private citizen someone who showed respect for the north korean government but was able to bring them home without becoming tangled in the nuclear program. it was a very smart play very well executed and the most important thing is they're home with their families tonight. >> and bill clinton never cracked a smile. that takes tremendous discipline to never once give them what they wanted which is some cheerful picture of it equality with the former president. >> right. and he, having been president, having been on the world stage now for nearly two decades,

understand the symbolism of little things like a smile in an event like that where, he, you know, obviously, the dear leader is smiling. but bill clinton wasn't going to do that. interestingly, one of the reasons mike said that bill clinton had shown respect to the north korean regime, when kim jong-il's father died he sent him a letter of condolence. >> bill did? >> yes, he did. he was president at the time, it was 1994 and kim jong-il or somebody there said that that had shown they wanted to repay that humanitarian gesture by releasing the journalists. these little things that president clinton did over many years to boiled relationships with people around the world pay unusual dividends. >> here's what the president said about bill clinton. let's listen. >> i want to thank president bill clinton. i had a chance to talk to him for the extraordinarily humanitarian effort that resulted in the release of the two journalists. i think that not only is this white house obviously extraordinarily happy but all americans should be grateful to both former president clinton

and vice president gore for their extraordinary work. >> mike, it was your old boss that sort of had to deal with this because those two women journalists caught in this terrible situation worked for al gore and his company called current. how did this work? how did he get bill clinton >> i can only tell you what i've heard through the background briefings the administration has done. the fact is the vice president was very concerned about them from day one and did feel a strong sense of responsibility for their safety. >> they were working for him. >> sure. i alluded to the group of people working behind the scenes, vice president gore was one of them, there were people at the state department advising them and ultimately president clinton who was willing to go over there and actually perform this very deft diplomatic mission to get them out. these are two people, bill clinton and al gore, who understand the complex issues involved here. they may need to be briefed up on the current state of affairs,

but they understand foreign policy. they understand the delicate issues at stake and knew what had to be done. they got together and worked on this together, and thankfully they're home safe tonight. >> what i liked about it is the first time we've seen the democratic leadership of the last couple decades working together. i mean really, it's the first time, bill, hillary, al, this president all working on the same team even if it was just this one purpose to get those two women out. it was pretty powerful to see them all working together. it looked so much better than george w. bush and dick cheney, >> right. >> i mean, so much better for this country to see those people together than what came in between those people. >> you're not going to get an argument from me or mike on that. >> john bolton, this character out there, this former neo-con who's one of these guys who talked us into the war in iraq got us into hell over there and then has the nerve to come out and make fun of this because all the former president did was go over there, pick up these two women and come home.

and that was bad politics? what are we supposed to do, let them stew? >> we tried it their way for eight years and north korea became a nuclear nation. now i think it's time to try a different approach. certainly president obama has signaled that from the beginning. certainly president clinton approached the north koreans differently and reached -- no agreement with them is perfect but they were not a nuclear nation when bill clinton left office. >> well, i think it's a question now what the president's role. you know bill clinton very well. you once told me very charitably. he is who you think he is. it's full of transparent i. the guy's the whole story. >> right. it's not always simple. one of the things i think i was reminded of and today is he's a much more emotional figure, you know, people connect to him emotionally and seeing laura ling talking about what it felt like to walk into that room wasn't just because she thought in her heart she was going to be

free. it was something else about him that people connect to him and that he cares and that you know, that he's come halfway around the world to help these two women come home. that's something you expect from bill clinton and it's something i think the world missed during the bush years. >> human compassion. >> yeah. he's human. >> mike, everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. we know a lot about the clintons and a lot about bill clinton. al gore, this isn't exactly his line of country, emotion and passion, right? >> well -- >> but this guy's really good. let's move onto the role without getting too gooey here. the question is, does this open a door to more of a role to the former president given the fact that his wife is secretary of state, which complicates but also offers an opportunity, maybe? >> i think, look, this is a president and this is an administration that is very comfortable using all the tools in the tool chest, okay? the day he picked senator clinton to be secretary of state of the united states i think you saw that. the campaign is behind them. they're working together now. what do we need to do to get the

job done? he's going to go to the best and brightest and the most capable people to get it done. this is an example and they'll be others. >> but let's -- i'm getting back my usual hat on, the "hardball" hat. the first concern was he would be involved in so many complicated messes with ron burke and people like that, he hangs around with these hollywood people. they didn't want any embarrassments. and to the former president's credit, bill clinton has caused no embarrassment for this administration whatever. so that's been dealt with. having proven himself that he's not going to screw it up, now he's proving he can help and now we're moving on to maybe bigger territory here. do you think hillary clinton still will have to keep the planet to herself? >> i think it remains to be seen exactly what role there will be for president clinton going forward. i think that there's been a little too much suspicion maybe, i don't know what the right word is among some of the senior command of the obama team. much of it, you know, was a hangover from the campaign. there were some not too happy

moments. >> too much suspicion or appropriate suspicion. >> i think a little bit too much. i think there was always that chatter, would hillary clinton be a loyal team player? i think she's more than showed that her real interests lie with helping her country. and i think the same is true of president clinton. i think this is one good example. he said he would not undertake this mission unless the white house approved. that's not how president carter treated president clinton in niern. 1994. president carter announced he was going to north korea and it was up to bill clinton to figure out how to deal with that. he was a relatively new president. this was a complex international foreign issue and the former president didn't help the president. >> it seems to me the toughest things for this president to face are a very difficult economic situation where this recovery could be as bad as the recession, it could go on for years. we got an 8% unemployment two or three years from now. very tough election campaign. tough congressional race next year. he's going to need bill clinton for that. >> he's going to need everybody. >> somebody has to go to

cleveland, pittsburgh, l.a., for him and say, look, the guy's doing the best we can. let's stick together. >> sure and this president is going to live or die politically by the decisions he makes in office about these big issues. he's put it all on the table, not held back, saying we've got. >> is this coalition working? sure, it's absolutely working. >> is it working this coalition between the clintons and obama. >> so far so good. i can't think of a single example where it's not working. >> is it going to get bigger. >> i hope so. >> i mean, is it going to become political, as well as diplomatic? >> these guys are going to work together on issues and politically. big issues. >> he's going to have to help the middle east where the clintons are strong with israel especially and its friends here. he has got to the help bill clinton with keeping the white working class aboard because they're beginning to show tattering along tribal lines in this country. i feel it. i see it with the birthing thing. i see it with the birthers with this thing over sotomayor.

a lot of areas where there's racial stuff starting to creep out again thanks in part to the republicans but not only to them. i think bill clinton has a major role to play to keep this country together. >> so bill is back after his success in north korea. will we continue to see him in a high profile role in the obama presidency? much more on this new while growing coalition among bill, hillary and barack obama. you're watching "hardball." we got more coming in a minute about what's going to happen. we've got pat buchanan coming here, bob herbert to talk about the political implications where this is going. bill is back. when i was seventeen summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just one week. do-overs do exist. (announcer) total skin renewal neutrogena.

coming up, inside the family, that influential religious organization that operates that house on c street here in washington. where senator john ensign and governor mark sanford ones called home. later on.

welcome back to "hardball." what does bill clinton's success in north korea tell us about the state of the obama/clinton coalition? that's what it is between

president obama and hillary clinton. who's getting the most out of this? well, evening that doesn't necessarily mean they both aren't getting a lot out of it. let's find out. pat buchanan, msnbc analyst. and bob herbert with "the new york times". mr. herbert, you almost lost me the other day. let's go into where we can find common ground here. let's talk about this thing. bill clinton, there was something very emotional that happened that grabbed me. i'm not the softest touch although i do throw up my leg once in awhile. this is what the freed journalist laura ling said today about this epiphany with bill clinton. >> we were taken to a location and when we walked through the doors, we saw standing before us president bill clinton.

we were shocked. but we knew instantly in our hearts that the nightmare of our lives was finally coming to an end. and now, we stand here home and free. >> wow. bob herbert, your thoughts about what that moment means. >> we should enjoy this moment, chris. it's not just bill and hillary clinton and al gore and president obama although it is true they all worked together successfully on this. but you get the feel looking at this of the country at least for a moment pulling together here. people have to be happy that these young women have been returned safely home. it's an international incident that has a positive gloss to it. you know, it's terrific.

>> pat buchanan. >> look, it's a very emotional moment, a very positive moment and a wonderful moment. it's wonderful that those journalists are home and bill clinton brought them home but we're paying a price for it in the sense that this dictator of north korea who is a barbarian has whistled up a president of the united states, said come to my country, apologize for these two women who accidentally walked across the border and who were sentenced to 12 years hard labor. and he's someone who's been defying the president of the united states. insulting our secretary of state, exploding nuclear devices, testing missiles toward hawaii and he was able to bring former president of the united states over there and have him a apologize to that. >> who said he apologized. >> what north korea is saying.

>> do you believe he apologized? >> yes, do i. >> where did you get that from? >> well, hillary clinton said we made a mistake or they did something wrong and i read it in a number of places. >> i read "the new york times" that they denied that he apologized the white house. >> they said he asked for a pardon. and did he admit they went across? but what i'm saying. >> pat, you said he apologized. do you know that? >> that's what i say the north koreans are saying. >> do you trust them? since when do you trust what they say? today? >> they said they had exhaustive discussions. that's what they're saying. here's what i'm saying, in asia, this is an enormous victory for kim jong-il. >> he's traded hostages for prestige. the japanese and south koreans, the japanese have hostages over there. i believe he gained and all over the world -- ahmadinejad. suppose he says we'll give you back those backpackers that wandered in here but send the

former of the president of the united states over. >> you know, i also think, let's take a look at senator clinton and what she said about the nature of that mission and what happened in north korea. let's listen. >> i want to be sure people don't the confuse what bill did which was a private humanitarian mission to bring these young women home with our policy which continues to be one that gives choices to north korea. they can continue on the path they are on, or perhaps they will now be willing to start talking to us within the context of the six-party talks about the international desire to see them denuclearized. >> i guess, bob, the other part of the question, pat has this point of view about humiliating us to take this step. i wonder if you were bill clinton, private citizen bill clinton, husband of the

secretary of state, democrat, if you will, american, if you will, certainly that, did he have any choice but do this? >> sure he had a choice. he made the correct choice. one, i don't think i don't think it was humiliating at all for the united states. i think the world sees this for what it is. and you know, the idea that kim jong il got a few minutes of propaganda which i don't think is very effective propaganda, if you trade that for perhaps 12 years of these young women's lives that's a trade i would make in a heartbeat. >> why do you think bill clinton seems bigger on the world stage than he did a week ago if he hue humiliated himself? >> bill clinton didn't humiliate himself. he did the right thing. what i'm saying is america in this sense. you have a former president of the united states which is an enormously influential figure going to beijing and in effect asking for -- pyongyang and asking for the release of these hostages. he's been called if you will by a brutal dictator. bill clinton did the right thing. here's the thing, chris. look what hillary clinton was saying there.

what she is saying is, look, don't take this as though this was our government doing this because we've still got a tough policy. she knows in asia, people are saying what is going on. >> face, i know. >> it's more than just face. it's is the united states going to cave. is jim kim jong-il going to demand that -- >> what i find interesting the diplomacies about finding not where the zero sum operates because that's where you get nothing done. one side is going to lose, one side wins. when one side gets something big to them. you know, earnest honinger, head of east germany, all he wanted all his life was to come to the united states and be received at the white house. all his life. in other words, you think communists think they're better than us? they don't. they know we're pretty damn good. in an odd way we have prestige that we can use. every time we give prestige to somebody, i don't think it necessarily brings us down. >> i agree to this extent. there's enormous prestige but

he's the former president of the united states and you played that card and did you play it wisely in terms of what's happening in asia. >> bob, you're up there in hillary-ville. new york is clinton-ville. i have to deal with people all the time who seem to be in that sphere of the clintons up there. is there now going to be a bigger role for bill clinton in our world? >> i don't know if it's going to be bigger or not. i think that the obama administration always had the idea that they would be able to use bill clinton from time to time effectively. obviously, you know, it's delicate. his wife is secretary of state. you know, and she has to take the point position on diplomacy. but when the time comes and bill clinton can be helpful either in a high-profile way or behind the scenes, i think the obama administration had planned all the time to use him. and bill had made it clear,

after the election campaign, and it was a rough primary, he had made it clear that he would help the administration in any way that he could. >> is he going to run for anything in new york? do you think he could be elected governor up there? >> he would be elected in a heartbeat, but i don't think he's going to run. >> that's what i wanted to hear. bob herbert, he would be elected in a heartbeat. >> you notice that north korea has insulted hillary calling her a school girl and a pensioner and then says, but the former president of the united states, bring her on over. >> i know. they lack some of your brilliant mischief though. i'm not sure that's smart. i did see all those pieces. i'm not sure kim jong-il would know that. whatever he drinks drinks. thank you pat, thank you bob herbert. up next, the late night comedians were happy to see bill clinton back in the action. they won't give him a break. you think i'm tough? catch these guys. come up in the sideshow. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. @

back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. by the way, i love it when people tell me their kids like this part of the show. anyway, for the chuckle-worthy side of the trip that clinton took to pyongyang. first, my friend, craig ferguson. >> clinton agreed to go as soon as he found out the mission was about picking up chicks. he was like i'll do it. for america. i will find these young ladies and i will -- i will rescue them. >> and now here with the exact same number, jimmy fallon. >> great way for obama to use clinton that way. i think i know how he got him to go over there. he's probably like, bill, look, i need to you go to north korea for me. i can't do it. i'm completely booked. i have numerous obligations.

>> i want you to visit a women's prison. what time's my flight? >> same theme. as clinton knows, it's hard to shake this stuff. now to tonight's big number. quinnipiac polled americans this week asking them who do they trust to do a better job handling health care, the president or republicans in congress? well who won out? the president won with 46%. congressional republicans are gaining with 37%. that may be too close for comfort. not exactly a commanding position for the president. 46% of the public now trust the president over the other guys to deal with health care. not exactly a majority. tonight's big number. up next, an inside look at the family it's called. a high-powered top secret group of christian fundamentalists which is considered the most influential religious group in washington. they're the organization by the way that operates that house on c street up on capitol hill where governor mark sanford and

governor -- well, senator john ensign both lived. we'll talk to jeff charlotte who lived among the family next. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. robert shapiro: we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today

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i'm melissa ray berger. new details are meerching about a deadly shooting spree at a fitness center near pittsburgh. the gunman has been identified as 48-year-old computer programmer george sodini. all was lined out in an online diary. he was a loner and a history of being rejected by women. he prepared that attack far in advance. former louisiana congressman william jefferson has been found guilty in 11 of 16 counts on this bribery trial.

a jury found jefferson guilty of the most serious charge, trying use $100,000 to bribe an african politician. jefferson faces up to 150 years behind bars. on wall street, a lay-day rally was not enough to move the territory. dow jones finished 50 points lower. the s&p 500 is down three points and the nasdaq lost 18. now, back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball". 133 c street in washington, d.c., that's up on capitol hill if you visit here right behind the capitol known for housing lawmakers and hosting prayer and bible study groups. recently that townhouse has become associated with political sex scandals. senator john ensign lives there was confronted at the house by colleagues who wanted him to end his affair with a campaign

staffer. the estranged wife of former congressman chip pickering says he carried out his affair at that house and governor mark sanford referenced c street after admitting to cheating on his wife with the woman down in argentina. take a look right now. >> as far as what we call c street, when i was in washington, it was a, believe it or not, a christian bible study, folks who asked if member's of congress hard questions i think were very, very important and i've been working with them. >> journalist and author jeff charlotte lived in a house owned by the same organization that owns and operates c street and wrote a book about it called "the family, the secret fundamentalism at the heart of american power." what is the connection with all these stories of sexual peccadillos? i sort of like sanford because he seems involved in an actual romance. who knows with these relationships. what do you think? >> i think he's the most innocent. there's two kind of morality, for the little people, me and you and there's morality for

those selected by god. they believe some politicians are selected by god, not elected by the people. >> where do they get this selection idea from? is this some weird distortion of calvinism and power? what is it? exactly. dumbed down calvinism. 70 years old, the most influential christian right organization in washington found with the idea that christianity is getting it wrong for 2,000 years. talking about the poor, the weak, the suffering. what god wants them to is be mission nairies. powerful, that god will work through these people who he will reveal to us by giving them wealth. >> the jesuits, i really mean benign. let me ask you about what's wrong here. so what? my favorite question. so what if a bunch of these guys go to prayer breakfast, all live together. i see some guys here, like

irish-catholic, mike doyle, bart stupak is not a fundamentalist. zach wamp, i don't know what he is, john ensign. people have their own religion. they go to prayer breakfasts. what's harmful about it. >> absolutely nothing going to a prayer group. you want to pray with folks. the issue is when you have an organization acting like a lobbyist. >> what are they pushing? >> two ideas, one is biblical capitalism the idea that god works through an unregulated market. they've been doing this for 70 years. two, their idea is an idea of american power. >> so they're sewing members of their congregation basically on the idea the federal government and all the state governments should let these people on wall street do what they feel like. >> exactly. they began 70 years ago with the idea that the new deal was some kind of satanic conspiracy, that god has chosen who he wants to be healthy and who will he wants to be poor. and it's up to us to help them accept that. >> have you done any reporting on how this religious belief you describe here has affected legislation? has anybody actually passed a bill that operates on the

religious presepts of this organization? >> the family doesn't tell you how to vote and don't initiate legislation. what they say is they bring these guys together and say these groups should be invisible to the public, should not take actions themselves but out of them actions should grow. senator sam brownback gave me an example of how it works. a piece of legislation he's been trying to pass, the silk road act no one pays attention to the central asian republics will prop up dictators over there. he says it has lots of benefits. one, it opens up those countries to the kind of corporations that are his major backers like coke industries. two, he says, where capitalism goes, the gospel follows. this is what they're trying to do. that's what the family's been trying to do. senator coburn has been going on foreign policy trips paid for by the family to try and set up christian prayer cells of the very kind that helped ensign.

>> here's what i don't get. is this a religious group itself, why does it include catholics and protestants and if they have a religious doctrine, it doesn't seem like they share a belief. >> they teach that the person of jesus transcends all of this. he said jews, muslims love jesus. that's what allowed him to forge alliances. catholics, the family has historically been extremely anti-catholic. doug coe said thinks like he hates -- >> what's doyle and stupak doing there? >> they're attracted to the god of american power. these guys like the access. they like the influence. >> some working class irish catholic from pittsburgh, where do you put him into the leadership clack? >> the family, look, senator coburn in fact told james dobson's magazine, citizen several years ago he went out looking for some democrats. the family has always been like 90% republicans. >> are you sure this isn't like me staying at the y, it's cheap?

you get -- it used to be six bucks a night in d.c. that's one reason to stay there. >> when you're at the y, do you try and facilitate arms deals with the setup of foreign policy? >> no, what i'm saying, is it a cheap place to stay? >> maybe mike doyle is, but why are they being dishonest about it? congressman bart stupak, conservative democrats, been there for seven year, getting subsidized rent. in 2002 told "the l.a. times" we don't talk to the press about it. now he says he doesn't know what's going on there. why does zach wamp say. >> what's the reaction of these members of congress? they're all part of this cell. >> i've been reporting on this for several years for harper's magazine and rolling stone. never had a fact corrected. >> i'll hear from them. i can tell you that. thank you for coming on. i can guarantee i'm going to hear from each one of these congressional people we mentioned here. who want to know why they're outed as members of some religious cult when they'll tell

me it's a cheap place to stay. it's a good-looking book "the family." thank you very much. jeff charlotte. up next -- those groups of protesters disrupting congressional town hall meetings all across the country in long island, philadelphia, texas. there they are. now the white house and dnc, the democrats are fighting back hoping to make the people you're looking at the face of opposition. in other words, the only people opposing health care are those screamers out there. is it going to work as a tactic for the democrats? the politics fix is next coming up on "hardball" only on msnbc. can unlock nature's power? [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene helps make hair strong against damage in 14 days. good housekeeping gave it their seal. damage protection results leading salon brands can't beat. [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene. would you like that to hurt now or later? uh-- what? (announcer) pepcid® complete doesn't make you choose. it neutralizes acid in seconds and controls heartburn all day or all night.

coming up, have southerner's ruined the republican party in the politics fix is next. we're back. on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email busine plans faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather.

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we're back. time for the politics fix with columnist kathleen parker and salon.com's editor-in-chief joan walsh. i'm not sure you're going to argue much. but let me tell you i've never seen a stronger column in the newspapers than what i read this morning when i got up. and the reason i'm so glad kathleen is joining us, joan, is because she wrote this column, basically backing up senator george voinovich of ohio saying the republican party which has been doing pretty well over the last century, has essentially been getting destroyed by the right-wingers in the south. we've talked about the obsession with the birthing thing down in the south and all the rest of the ethnic potential here. here's a quote that really grabbed me. that same rage was on display again in the fall of 2008, but this time, the frenzy was stimulated by a pretty gal with a mocking little wink.

sarah palin may not have realized what she was doing. but southerners weaned on harper lee heard the dog whistle. kathleen "heard the dog whistle." is sarah palin a poster girl for racism? yes or no. >> not consciously. >> not consciously. >> i don't think, i certainly don't think she, sarah palin knows anything about harper lee or the deep history in the south where you don't position a white woman and a black male and pretend like there's nothing happening there. there's a deep, deep history. that's why i mentioned harper lee in there. you want to talk about the southern strategy. >> just like "to kill a mockingbird", i just saw it again, one of the great movies. where the white woman claimed she had been molested by this totally innocent black guy.

>> right. >> and she was believed for no reason except she said so. >> right. look, and please let me be really, really clear. i'm not saying sarah palin did that. i'm just saying there's a subliminal level of communication that goes on. the southern strategy has always been, since they stopped using the "n" word and being explicit what about they're trying to with race and creating this us versus them dynamic. it became increasingly vague through the years. you started talking about state's rights at a certain point, then you starred talking about these wedge issues like gay marriage and on and on. but ultimately, it's always about an us and them dynamic. >> right. >> and sarah palin's very good at that. and when she plays her populist role, there's no one better at it. >> among henry louis gates, the birther movement, the sotomayor questioning, so tribalistic, no doubt about it all that stuff has become very tribalistic, we thought we'd begun to crack in this country. yeah.

that's what it's about? >> i think sarah palin's overall message is one of us versus them. i think that she took the lead on the campaign trail and you and i talked about it back in september and october, chris, in really making obama the other. she would literally say things like, you know, we don't know enough about him. we're not sure where he's from. she would talk about the regular america. you know, palling around with terrorists. we've taken that apart. she was the person, not john mccain, maybe behind the scenes the mccain people were encouraging her but she had a real zest for it, you know? she did it with a real zing and penache and she has that visceral appearance of enjoying it when she was really saying some pretty hateful and not founded things. barack obama is one of us. he's very much so. the only thing different about him is he's black. he's our first black president. i think we've made enormous

racial progress. i don't want to and i know kathleen doesn't want to over state what's going on right now but we're a in a moment right now with the birthers, with the reaction to the gates affair, with the trashing of sonia sotomayor, and, you know, even john mccain saying he's not going to vote for her, where the republican party seems to believe that its best route is tribalism and scaring people. whether they're scaring people about obama is going to take away your health care or they're scaring you about we don't know what he's about. he's a muslim. he's a socialist, it's fear. the tactic is fear and fear alone. i loved kathleen's column. it was awesome. >> i'm struck by the fact that the numbers, this new poll came out and showed that the southerners, a majority of them are not willing to commit. a majority of southerners including blacks obviously the blacks are part of this, i assume, don't have any reason to believe he's an american. they say either don't believe it or, i mean, the majority of them

are not wanting to say, yes. he's one of us. the rest of the country is overwhelming 9 of 10 say yes he is, sure he's one of us. why is the south alone in this? not northeast, not midwest, not west but the south stands out there uniquely and regionally and racially. >> one word, chris. >> opposed to this guy. >> one word. confederacy. i mean, i lived there. okay? i want to make that clear. i'm not bashing southerners. i love the south and i am a southerner. >> but 40% of those states are black. >> it's part of the culture to be secessionist and to always view the federal government as the enemy. and it's very -- i can't -- >> well, let's talk about palin. she has attacked new york, washington, los angeles. she goes after the government, after the media, after hollywood. anything on the coast is evil to her. she is an alaskan who i bet you

any money will spend most of her time in the mid parts of the country, the rural white parts. she'll find those cul de sacs of whitedom and exploit the hell out of them. >> wasn't she in new york last night at michael's the big media -- >> because she has a lawyer smart enough, robert barnt, to take her to the one place she'll get a hell of a lot of publicity. >> the media downturn. >> you are tough. we'll be right back with kathleen parker. joan walsh, one of my favts here of course. we all know that. and big bill. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. welcome to progressive.com. you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500.

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we're back with kathleen and joe. i have to ask you about bill clinton. i'm not going to show it again. i've shown it twice. that very emotional scene with ms. ling when she talks about what it was like to walk into the room and see bill there. >> yeah, please don't play it for me because when you played it the first time my friend and i were watching and we both teerd up. it's always my great fear on television, i'll swear or cry. it was a wonderful scene. first of all i know laura. i've worked with her at current. she's a wonderful person. this has been an ordeal for her friends and family and to see the former president there just beaming, this kind of luminesce

figure. he's had his down side and made his mistakes but many people in our profession really under estimate the extent to which he connects with people and you saw the little girl in her, just i'm finally safe, this white knight is here. and, you know, i sat in this chair. you know this. this chair around the country talking to you and your guests last year and saying hillary clinton will not destroy the democratic party. hillary clinton will not destroy barack obama. bill clinton will endorse and will work for barack obama. hillary will be a great secretary of state and very loyal and bill clinton will help. with frenzied people on the right and left, equally the left, they'll destroy obama and take apart his administration. i think they've been proven wrong and i hope they shut up. >> you're right. i won't shut up though. >> i was trying to let you out of it. >> you're right. but i won't shut up. >> that's the beauty of it. we don't have to shut up. we now have bill back. when are journalists more happy than when bill clinton is on the

scene? >> big bill is like the emperor of ice cream in the poem. he's like this big, full of life guy and then look around the corner and actually see his big face there, big head, the whole thing. >> right. >> it must have been unbelievable. and that woman, i think that's one of the great, it's going to be one of the great youtube moments. >> i really do. >> i do think people are going to say that doesn't happen normally in politics. >> right. my two other reactions other than the normal one which is this is wonderful and great and thank god they brought those two women home, was jesse jackson must be deeply depressed. >> you know, some people have to turn the corner and find somebody to sock when they're in a good mood. look, a great night for the republic and bill clinton. thank you mr. clinton. thank you mr. president for what you did. you added to your prestige. i don't buy the pat buchanan thing. you look better when you help people in this world and the other guys look like bad guys. thank you. join us tomorrow night at 5:00

and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." "countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? mob rule. the leader of the freshman democrats in the house says one congressman has already been physically assaulted by a phony grass roots agitator. when you look at the fervor of some of these people all whipped up by the right wing talking heads on fox to me you're crossing a line said representative jerry connelly of virginia. they are inciting people to riot. in this atmosphere the president is criticizing democratic criticism of the blue dog democrats. and still clinging to bipartisanship. >> i would prefer republicans working with us on this because i think it's in the interests of everybody. >> making a sow's ear out of a silk purse conservatives trying to spin the release of euna lee and laura ling into a diplomatic disaster.

and limbaugh asks if president clinton hit on them. >> we saw standing before us president bill clinton. >> blackwater continues. more charges against eric prince running a jihad against muslims involved as witnesses against his company and tonight while supposedly protecting americans in iraq illegally dealing arms there. gitmo after threatening, torturing and imprisoning without charge or evidence could the bush administration possibly have sunk lower? yes, they bought fake testimony from witnesses with cash and shoes. the bubble headed bleach blond comes on at 6:00. >> in my home state of minnesota so far only two of these deals have actually been approved by the government. >> close, ms. news actress. 2%. not two. 2%. that would be different. and speaking of minnesota, the man who nearly