>> with me now live nbc's chief white house correspondent chuck todd. chuck, big records words from the president who, the last couple of months, in fact, in the last week or two, has gone back and forth how much to talk about the economy turning a corner but it sounds like he is feeling good about it. >> they are. but than morning, the morning press gaggle, press secretary robert gibbs said the white house still expects unemployment to hit 10%, that, you know, the trend that they want to emphasize is that there seems to be, over the last three months, a steady decline in job losses, but we're still seeing job losses and that is why you don't see him doing a jig. they will not be danceing in the streets today about it or dancing up on stage at the white house at the rose garden so they are trying to walk that line. because could this be a summer aberration or will this be a steady decline? i mean, one of the things you hear from some economists, does

it pick up speed and momentum? but these guys have been telling us, well, for the number really to go down, we actually have to see job creation and we still haven't had a month of job creation. >> speaking of job creation, that cash for clunkers program that an initial billion dollars pa put into, now another $2 billion could lead to some 400,000 additional cars, which some car manufacturers may lead to some hiring because their inventories are light. is the white house talking about that expectation that the $2 billion could begin to stimulate hiring which may have a ripple impact, at least in the hard-hit areas of michigan and tennessee and some of the other car manufacturing hubs? >> i do think that they like the fact that you're seeing the states that are taking the most advantage of this cash for clunkers are some of these states and some of these harder hit manufacturing places like ohio, like indiana. so that is something that they are happy about. but, you know, you take to some

analysts here and august is sometimes is a big car buying month anyway, i believe. i'm not going to pretend -- i'm not an expert on the car industry, i'm just playing one on tv. but the question is have they just, you know, moved up because, you know, normally ug a and august and september are the times the car dealerships are trying to clear out the old models and bring in the new models. have they yu moved up a lot of money and a lot of people's decision-making on buying a car some and in three months from now they won't see the same increase in car buying they hope to see, or is this start of a trend? that's why you're not going to see them saying this is going to be something big the last six, eight months. i think they see this as a program working right now. >> home state privilege, both of us from florida. from miami, big news out of the state this morning that the state's senior senator mel martinez who was already scheduled not to run for re-election next year, tell me the news. sounds like he is stepping down early? >> he is going to step down

early. we don't know what reason he is giving now. there had been rumors about him stepping down early, frankly, on for months. in fact, when he announced he wasn't going to run for re-election, initially, was there some talk that he would resign his seat. he does not like being in the united states senate. i have plenty of people who have talked to him and have heard him express his -- there are parts of being a senator he likes. he is not happy with some of his colleagues, particularly some of his conservative colleagues who killed immigration reform. it was something that very much frustrated him. so i'll be very curious to see what he says, not necessarily today when he makes his announcement or later this weekend but after a couple of months, you know, george voinovich, the retiring senator from ohio, has expressed frustration about sort of the conservative, southern conservatives tag over the caucus. we might hear something similar out of mel martinez. it wouldn't surprise me. >> interesting. speaking of intramural war fare

we've, obviously, seen what has happened in the town halls, more home state privilege, looking what happened in tampa what happened there last night. what do you make of that and what are you hearing from the white house? is there a feeling, in fact, some of these are scripted efforts led by some conservativ conservatives? >> well, look. no doubt what the white house believes and certainly some evidence out there that points to the fact that this is a well-organized effort. but let me underline that last phrase, well-organized effort. this is something actually that is concerning some democrats that said, hey, there is -- you know, the republicans and conservatives might be getting better at grassroots organizing. this is a party that hadn't done a very good job of it over the last four, six, eight years and, suddenly, is this a sign that they're getting their political grassroots house in order, just as sort of you saw the early signs of democrats reorganizing back in '05 and in '06 and

showing some signs of organizational life. so, yes, they are, i think, pr wise feel good about their ability to dismiss these and hey, it's not well organized and orchestrated and in a district, a very democratic district and not as if she is going to look at this town hall and say my constituents don't want me to vote down the line democrat. >> chuck -- >> they should be a little concerned about the enthusiasm that conservatives are -- even if it is busting enthusiasm, it's there. >> let's broaden the conversation and bring in right now ryan ellis, a tax policy director for americans for tax reform, whose group is mobilizing members to participate in health care reforms and i want to bring in my guest co-host, tennessee former congressman, harold ford. ryan, you've heard the conversation i've just had with chuck todd. you've heard both from the

spourers supporters and critics including what happened in tampa last night. what is your thoughts as you look at that and the core member if you will of the movement? >> i'm flattered that everyone thinks we can organize these things very well and have buttons we push and get dozens of people into a targeted town hall. we're not unions. we're not acorn and can't give people 20, 30 dollars to show up. all we've done at americans for tax reform, you can find this at our website, not any sort of secret, we've suggested some questions that people might want to ask, questions like have you read the bill? will you commit to having the bill in its final form made available to the public for several days? do you agree with various tax increases that are in the bill? these are all fair-game questions. >> harold ford, i want to bring you in here. what do you see when you see some of the energy and, in some cases, some of the violence that has erupted in the town halls? >> someone who held town hall meetings when i was in congress i appreciate the debate and for

that matter the back and forth. the question for ryan i have is as you are all urge and i think it's patriotic to urge the trackers of the bill to make their way to the town hall meetings. are you encouraging the mere violence and violent techniques we're seeing amongst some? if you're not anything you're doing to urge people not to engage in that kind of behavior? >> well, we're certainly not encouraging anyone to commit violence. what we're encouraging people to do is show up and ask fair, but firm, questions to their elected officials. and to my knowledge, the only real violence that we've seen so far has come out of the sciu when they tried down in tampa to bar actual tax-paying constituents from getting into this town hall and talking to their congressman. as far as i'm concerned i don't think any level of violence on our side that even begins to compare to that. >> did you not see any of the video or tape out of tampa and did none of that seem to you there were clearly conservative

members who were disaffected with with some of the proposals? you didn't see any violence on their part out of that? >> the most violent thing i saw out of tampa was the small business owner who got his shirt ripped by an sciu thug and got his nose bloodied up. that is what i would call violence. >> you as an organization, the constitution guarantees you have the right and i encourage you exercise it, but has your organization denounced that violence and urged your members publicly? the only language i've heard from those associated with you and your organization is to say we're encouraging people to go out and ask these questions, which is fine, but when it turns to violence, as someone who stood before the audiences and had to ask questions, not only are you concerned about your own safety but more concerned about those in the room. probably would be good, if not constructive to give that kind of warning and sciu to do the same thing. are you willing to ask those associated with your organization not to engage in these type of techniques, but to go and ask the questions in a

civil and constructive way? >> we don't want anyone to commit any acts of violence whatsoever. i think it's a red herring to suggest there has been a lot of violence on the conservative side. i think what you've seen are very frustrated people who want to get into the town halls and ask fair, but tough, questions. >> ryan, we have seen some violence and i guess the question is you may say the answer is no, but the question is do you think you and other leaders in the conservative movement have a responsibility not only to encourage people to attend, but to be very explicit and saying there should nobody violence even if that is difficult to maintain? something very similar to what we saw in the '60s in the civil rights movement, dr. king and others were specific, no matter how strongly you feel about it, refrain from violence. >> absolutely we're against violence. no one has suggested that we're for violence and no one has suggested we are encouraging violence. my question for su will are you going to have andy stern from the sciu on here later today and have him be held accountable for

his union, the sciu, which bloodied up that small business owner down in tampa? he has to answer for that because that has been the biggest violence i've seen so far. of course, we're against violence. that doesn't serve us any good. we are are not violent people. these are ordinary americans. can you look at them. they have their vfw hats own an coming off small businesses and family dinners. they are armed with a few tough questions for their congressman like do you agree that these tax increases are necessary? do you think the bill should be posted online for five days so everyone can read it? those aren't violent questions. those are very firm, very fair questions that we're asking these congressmen. >> ryan ellis, thank you for joining us and look forward to you come back next week and talk more about this and more broadly where the conservative movement finds itself. >> thank you. >> are these rowdy town hall meetings helping or hurting the health care debate. we want to hear from you. go to twitter.msnbc.com and follow the link. you'll see my picture there.

twitter is back up. good news. let me know whether or not you think they are making a difference wr remember talking recess politics coming up. congressman joe crowley. and paying tribute to the man who brought urs ferris bueller and the brat pack. i loved those movies. >> any monkey business is ill-advised. any questions? >> yeah. i got a question. is barry manilow know you raided his wardrobe? >> i'll give you the answer to that question, mr. bender, next saturday. don't mess with a bull, young man, you'll get the horns!

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welcome back to msnbc live. tempers flare over the health care debate some are choosing to forgo town hall forums during the summer recess which is supposed to be a time when people here from their swaets. joining me is joseph crowley. two interesting things from a district. >> geraldine ferraro running for vice president and born and raised in my district in the bronx, sonia sotomayor. >> not bad district. got to ask you about the town halls. we were talking earlier about them. have you had this kind of drama in your district? what are you hearing from your colleagues? >> not to the same degree. i think seeing elsewhere. i'm holding supermarkets and they show dog teleconferencing

town halls which you find effective in terms of getting the give and take bab back and forth and information out to air constituents. i am intrigued what is happening around the country to my colleagues and my friends. i think gentleman who was on before failed to really answer the question, that is, were you -- will you instruct your supporters not to destruct and interfere with these meetings and stop these meetings? really, it's a time-honored tradition and american tradition of town halls and started in new england in the 1600s and bits a way in which leadership and the constituency have a give and take and back and forth. what really is happening right now is disservice to the country. >> i tell you what what is interesting. we were talking about during the break and harold, i'm curious about your thoughts too. . it doesn't seem like it's happening every why. it seems certain states, maybe you would call them marginal districts whywhere there is more drama and excitement. >> crowley touched on it during the break.

they are spending their time in resources efficiently. they figure they go to the districts where you had tough races and democrats won by narrow margins. hard to believe that many -- >> almost 50. >> what is the number? >> 49. >> so they are focused in a lot of those areas. i think the young fellow on earlier made two good points. one, those who are from the other side, i don't like crazies on either side. i think lefties and righties, i'm more of a lefty than a righty. the question that -- when can we talk about what is actually in the bill? which is a question i would have for you. what do you tout as parts of the bill that were reform the health insurance side of health insurance and what do tout as that will reform or control costs as it relates to the rising costs on health care? >> i call it the three cs. it's care, it's cost, it's choice. and it's also the other c from queens, quality!

that's what we're talking about. that's what we're trying to i think, put together here. you can't see through all of the clouds and the forest. >> do you think cost is going to end up suffering? the reality of politics? in order get something done, your on the ways and means commit yen dealing with the taxation issues, is the reality and politics here cost is the part that is suffering? >> it is always a difficult part of this. in other words, getting rid of waste abuse and fraud and bringing the cost curve down enough so we don't have to look for alternative revenues to make up for the rest of that. so we work very diltly on the ways and means committee. 90 hours plus of going through the bill from cover to end. really grappling with some very difficult issues. on policy, not only on taxation. it's about taxes and you don't just focus on the taxes, you focus on the meat of the bill as

well. krifg driving the cost down and make sure we have a better quality of care and people paying for this right now see reduction in their insurance. the status quo we can't continue with. >> we will ask you to come back and talk about this more and i also want to talk about your trips to afghanistan and iraq. >> thank you. >> ahead, americans out of work. despite today's better than expected jobs report the white house said unemployment will, in fact, hit double digits. later, sonia sotomayor's rise to the nags' highest court and what it means for latino politics. is this a historic tipping point? we'll talk about that straight ahead. i've been growing algae for 35 years.

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actually dropped. the july jobless ratings is 9.4%. actually down slightly from june's 9.5%. the white house said this morning that president barack obama still thinks the jobless rate will hit 10% later this year. sharon o'halloran is a science professor at columbia university and my guest co-host harold ford joins me. we were talking during the break about whether or not this is good news and whether or not more the obama administration can and should do. >> right. >> to lower the rate. your thoughts. >> my thoughts are is that you need to get the money directly to the people who will spend it immediately, like a tax break. only 40 cents on the dollar is not an efficient way to get money back into the economy. so extension of unemployment insurance. that's important. getting money to people who need it, are in poverty levels and getting social security. those are the plays where the dollar-for-dollar will impact the economy. >> you are making a a point that

is to the people who need it and spend it now. >> that compensation goes to people who have to spend it because there they're without work and not a big amount of money but the money goes into the economy. do you think a payroll tax holiday. you talk about social security. it only taxes up to $90,000. some sort of holiday tax for employers and employees. >> again, the data shows when people view those as tax breaks as temporary, you spend 40%. otherwise, you use it to write down debt. and subsequent it's a different impact. if you want to stimulate the economy, you want people to spend that money, in fact, you want it to go to people who will have to spend it immediately as oppose to do increase their savings. >> what do you think of president obama saying that still likely to hit 10%? a little bit to me sounded like politics but maybe you are saying he is being wise and even though we see a dip, maybe he is right, maybe it still could hit

10% plus. >> there may be a little bit of once twice shy on this. i will give thaw. actually all of the numbers point this may be a bit of a plateau and there is a potential for us to tick back up. what we've just seen in july, the announced job cuts that firms are planning to cut jobs actually increased to about 97,000. which is about 31% increase from the previous low. consequently people are projecting there will be more job cuts coming down the pipeline. in addition, the unemployment rate is done by a survey, a household survey of who is looking for a job. people during the summer months, they have kids staying at home and so forth, may not be looking actively now but will do when the kids return to school. i think you may be getting seasonal impact on the unemployment rates as well as a firm taking eight wait and see look to see if the stimulus plan kicks in and increases the

economic activity. >> you have unemployment compensation extense benefit and what else would you include? >> getting the money to where it matters. so you have a lot of state workers who are on furlough, right? with reduction in their pay. those aren't people making enormous amount of expendable income. >> more aid to the state? >> more aid to the states. more aid i think to the social security benefits are helpful and did stimulate the economy. you saw big upticks in income. those marginal groups are the groups that need to be impacted. it could be done and targeted specific areas. >> get something done in congress you have top bipartisan support. labor rice was on with carlos and said if you have a tax cut you might be able to draw republican support. would it be marked politically to include a tax reduction to win republican support and make it a bipartisan effort? >> it would be my last resort and i always believe you have to have coalition building but get the democrats on board, first, going to the folks that need it

more and their core constituency i think, is important. they have a majority and can pass this without the republicans and if you need the moderate republican to come on board then you make those type of marginal deals and specific areas with large impacts and we can calculate that. >> thank you for joining us. the first of many times. coming up the death of the taliban's top in command in pakistan. a major step in the fight for control of the volatile region but could it also bring the u.s. closer to the world's most wanted man? that's right, osama bin laden. a live report plus general barry mcaffrey joins us straight ahead. you're watching msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. ♪ dead or alive mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help? yeah. i'll contact emergency services and stay with you.

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. pakistan's foreign minister and senior taliban commander confirming that pakistan's taliban leader was killed in a

u.s. missile strike in southern waziristan. mehsud helped organize a couple of suicide attacks against the pakistani government. nbc correspondent rich engel joins us now and joined by retired admiral barry mcaffrey. general, while we haven't gotten confirmation from the obama administration officials, if we assumed that what we're hearing from pack taken is right, how big a deal is this, this killing of the taliban leader isn't there. >> well, i think it's a pretty big deal. apparently the pakistani foreign minister articulated as a done deal. they are going to confirm through dna evidence. i think what you're seizing a tremendous payoff now from both cia and u.s. air force, uav, unmanned aerial video program. we have dozens of these things now predator shadow global hawk, they're out there and collecting terrific intelligence. they follow people for weeks.

and, in this case, they nailed a major threat to the pakistani government. so i think it's good news. >> richard, good to see you, general mcaffrey. richard, harold ford. the nato chief has asked for more troops be put on the ground in afghanistan. what is the feeling on the ground there amongst our military and do you get a sense of how our military in iraq might be affected by that if we were to go forward with it? >> there is certainly a sense here among the u.s. troops and nato troops that more forces are necessary. they are now moving into areas where nato forces had been in the past, but not made much of a difference. particularly in the south, where u.s. troops, u.s. marines are pushing into helmand -- >> looks like we -- >> but u.s. marines are discovering that they're going into places where there had been no u.s. military presence or no coalition presence at just over the last 24, 36 hours or so.

seven u.s. and british soldiers and marines have been killed in southern afghanistan. >> general mcaffrey, does all of this say to you that, you know, there's a front page story in "the new york times" today about the obama administration trying to figure out the right way to measure progress in afghanistan. do you think the obama administration has figured out how to measure progress and do you think that there are other substantive steps they are going to announce in the next couple of months, in addition, obviously, to general mchrystal and other troops deployed over the last seven months? >> i think their instincts have been correct in the start of this whole program. they have a new ambassador, carl eikenberry and new envoy and new military commander, stan mchrystal and petraeus, good night that guy that turned around iraq is overseeing afghanistan. the end of the day i think the big challenge on afghanistan you have to build a country. it's going to take us a decade and the success will be afghan

police and afghan soldiers. in the short run, yeah, 21,000 more u.s. troops, thank god for that. nato is there. that's good news. although they aren't except for the britts and canadians, nato doesn't carry much of a load. we have a long haul. richard engel knows more about this than i do. the pak intel service and pak army has got to get control of their border and that another huge challenge. >> thank you both. look forward to having you join us again soon. >> good to be with you, carlos. >> what do you think about the u.s. reaction in afghanistan? we want to hear from you. go to twitter.msnbc.com and you'll see my picture there. click on it and shoot me a tweet. or you can go to twitter.com/carloswatson, congressman harold ford and i will be reading some of your tweets later in the show. ahead, does the confirmation of supreme court justice sonia sotomayor actually signify a

major tipping point in latino politics? we'll talk about that. a spokeswoman says john hughes died of a heart attack while on a walk in manhattan on thursday. many of you view his movies to find a generation, during "the breakfast club" and "sixteen candles." and not to mention ferris bueller. john hurs was 59. every day special.

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. tomorrow sonia sotomayor will be swosh sworn in as the nation's first latino supreme court leader. >> on this vote, the yeas are 68 and the nyays are 31. the nomination of sonia sotomayor to be the supreme court justice of the united

states is confirmed. >> that is an amazing seen. al frank, the former "saturday night live" comedian and long delayed senator of minnesota announce the sotomayor's confirmation. i'm joined by frances who is a director of the center of study for ethnicity and race at columbia university and joined by alicia menendez of "the stimulus." harold ford is back with us as well. we were talking about this yesterday. is this just good news or a larger meaning here? is this a larger tipping point for latino empowerment and latino, if you will, integration here in the u.s.? >> i do feel it's a huge moment and i think it's a huge moment for different latino population for slightly different reasons. for puerto ricans, it's a huge moment. the supreme court has played a huge role in puerto rican

history and to have a puerto rican in the supreme court when the supreme court was upon responsible for the exclusion of puerto ricans in the past is enormous. >> that is an interesting point. most americans may not be aware of that but you're saying the court's rulings have had a lot to do with whether puerto rico is a state or not or what kind of citizenship, so you're saying a larger symbolism on this puerto rican-american woman? >> cases known as the ancillary cases, supreme court decided u.s. citizenship of puerto ricans was not equal to the u.s. citizenship of people that live in any of the 50 states. and part of the thinking behind arriving at that those decisions was the fear almost of having people not considered true americans being part of the governing structures of the united states. so to have a puerto rican or anyone from the territories that also includes guam, virgin islands in the supreme court is a historical and stunning

historical development. >> i want to bring in alicia menendez. how do you look at sotomayor's appointment? some people would say, you know? what we already have a number of latinos in the house, we have several latinos in the u.s. senate, ceos, people involved in pop culture, a whole wide series of things. is this really that big and significant of a moment? what are your thoughts? >> we don't have enough and this certainly is a big moment. i was with my dad last night. we had dinner to celebrate. he is fortunate enough to serve new jersey and the u.s. senate. we talked about the fact that he and sonya were born the same year and opposite sides of the hudson river and humble beginnings. as him as a cuban american being able to cast his vote as a u.s. senator for sonia sotomayor, puerto rican to become the first latino citizen to the supreme court is huge. it's a historic moment, but it is not enough. until we tas pass health care reform and immigration reform,

while this is wonderful, it's icing on a big cake. >> i would ask miss menendez whose father is my friend and the director. the issue of class also seems to be relevant and monday ents mental in so many ways. i was excited about the nomination because of the precedent. to know that the u.s. supreme court has someone that sits on it that grew up in public housing in america and brings a perspective having worked throughout her life at every stage, every advancement she had to work on her own. what impact will that have if in your estimation? i know you study many of these issues at the center and i would ask miss ma mendes the same question. >> i think latinos and children of immigrants or immigrants at large and for people that don't come from privilege, sonia sotomayor story is definitely not only inspiring, but indicative of larger issues in this society. and i think having a person like her in the supreme court and i think that's where we were talking about larger impact of

this not only in terms of class, but also in terms of the larger society. >> right. >> the entry of sotomayor into the supreme court is also indicative of a changing american society. society that is multiracial, multiethn multiethnic, a society in less than five decades no racial group the majority. we are really living in a country of minorities that everyone wants to get anything done will have to rely and communicate with people that might be different to themselves in some way. >> alicia, i want to give you the final word. about a minute to wrap up. do you think that this sonia sotomayor's will mean anything in the terms of the number of latinos we see running for office, whether next year or in the next several years. >> i'm happy you asked that question, carlos, because i think it's a good one. already we are seeing a rise in latino candidates out there. one organization is raising

money for latinos and doing great work and supporting a candidate out of texas who is running for state representative and i think across the country, especially at the state level, we're going to be seeing more and more latinas on the rise. >> alicia menendez in d.c. and francis neglect row-muntola, thank you for joining us. coming up next, 200 days into his new administration, is president obama maybing the grade? "rolling stone" is here to issue their progress report. they may not be nice. we'll see what happens. you're watching msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. .. 2... 1. ever wonder how cheez-it bakes... so much real cheese in such small bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know. cheez-it. the big cheese. well, now you know. come on. good girl.] mollie's never looked better. i really was amazed to see the change in her coat. people stop us when we're walking,

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. today marks president obama's 200th day in office. once sky-high popularity is starting to decline. the latest issue of "rolling stone" features a of "rolling

stone" features a roundstone of political issues. eric bates joins me right now. i'm is not sure i would have wanted you as a teacher. i would have got in trouble with my mom and dad if you handed out some of these grades you gave to the president. >> we were a little tough of him, and it was surprising to even us. in a lot of areas, he hasn't kind of proven himself yet. >> let's go through these a little bit. on economic recovery, i'm going to read them aloud. economic recovery, you gave him a b minus. health care, gave him a "b." environment, an a-. education, you gave him a "b." why such a tough grade on economic recovery. he's gotten us back on the rails and this morning we hear about unemployment, at least hitting a plateau. >> two things brought his grade down there. one, the stimulus wasn't big

enough to begin with. i think it's going to be tough for him to get enough money on the second round of stimulus, if that's needed. the second, he hasn't shown that he's reformed the financial system to prevent the kind of things that brought about the collapse to begin with. >> i actually had dinner with a couple of bankers this week that were saying exactly that. saying, he hasn't done the best thing from our benefit, which is compensation reform, and we're glad. harold, you looked at this and there was one place you differed. >> i think the economic recover should have been faster, but on education, you give him a "b," i think, a "b," and in a lot of ways, it's the one area, health care, a lot of it was outsourced to the congress, stimulus, a lot of it was outsourced to the congress. k-12 education, the administration has taken a lot of that on, arne duncan, his race to the top program, rewarding states with results and not giving the states with

bad results additional resources. >> the "b" was really an average. he's done an amazing move to try to get the private lenders out of student loans and return that money to student grants. we would have given him a "c" on grade schools, because he's pursuing a lot of bush policies, like teach to the test, instead of pursuing smaller classrooms. >> but look at jeff kent of harlan, he's used him as an example. canada is, in a lot of ways, has been attacked by some education advocates, but his results are undeniable. kids are learning. i would give him an "a." >> what was in here that a lot of people may not have paid attention to, but you think is meaningful? >> i think people are forgetting in health care, how much he's moved on a lot of other fronts.

he extended health care to 4 million children under skpis existing programs. that's an incredible move. he moved to empower the fda to regulate tobacco. that's going to have a profound effect on public health. there's a lot he's accomplished, short of all-out reform. >> eric bates, fantastic new edition of rolling stone magazine. >> he did give one "a." >> "a" on the environment. i want to look back at what was a special week on the show. i was really taken by former white house chief of staff andy card's point is that as much as you try to plan in politics, the reality is that the unplanned stuff often dominates and he particularly pointed out in august, when congress impose on recess, that's often when the white house has the most trouble. not because of town hall troubles, but because hurricane season can hit. whether it was andrew in '92 or katrina a couple years ago. it's coups, whether the russian coup or trouble in bosnia.

the other point i enjoyed this week, robert labor secretary robert reich says as you try to move that unemployment number back down, get it to 6, 5, in better territory, it may not be a classic second stimulus, or instead it may be a payroll tax holiday. an interesting idea he thought could generate bipartisan support and move the needle, although you heard columbia professoryn o'halloran say today, while it could work, it may not be that efficient. and next week, i've got several shows i love, "entourage" is back, but now "mad men" is back. if you haven't watched "mad men" yet, you've got to watch it. it's good stuff that's coming. harold ford, anything else you should we should be thinking about or looking forward? >> reich was a big supporter of obama. get money in the hands of employees and employers. could have an immediate impact. and john hughes, on another, "ferris bueller's day off" was

the best movie of the '80s. >> you were a fan? >> a big fan and we're all in mourning. that does it for me this hour. don't miss us next week. a lot of good folks coming in. tiki barber, a whole series of other folks will join us. that's it for me. i'll turn it over to "dr. nancy" now. what do you have? >> i'm going to agree with you, handsdown, best show of the year last year. we're going to shift gears from entertainment and talk about health care reform, and frankly, the lack of social decorum and the mayhem at all these town hall meetings. and that wrongway crash. could there be another explanation for that drunk mother that killed eight? ♪

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coming up today on "dr.

nancy," an explosion of anger in the health care reform debate. town hall meetings, angry meetings with shouting and even physical altercations. we'll take a look at the rhetoric and where all that anger is coming from. swine flu and the plan for your child's school. we'll talk to secretary janet napolitano about the government's new guidelines for an outbreak that is expected this fall. plus this. >> i go to bed every night knowing, my heart is clear, she did not drink, she's not an alcoholic. listen to all that, she is not an alcoholic and my heart is resting every night when i go to bed. something medically had to happen. >> it sounds like a husband in denial, but could there be a medical explanation for the alcohol and drug binge that led a woman to kill herself and so many others on that parkway tragedy? hello, everyone. i'm dr. nancy snyderman. we're going to begin today with anger health care protests turning up the summer heat.

r congressman john dingell struggled to keep order at this town hall. across the map in tampa, florida, you can see things got downright ugly at this meeting before congresswoman kathy castor even got a chance to speak. a man got hurt in a scuffle. >> one of them took my arm and doing an arm twist, tore my watch off, then the other one grabbed me by the neck and the shirt and tore the shirt off, because i didn't immediately fall over for him. >> we've been seeing this kind of unrest across the country and many lawmakers now refusing to even hold forums. that map indicative of how widespread this unruliness is. some, even, are dealing with their likeness by having their likenesses hung in effigy.

there have even be death threats. msnbc's mike viqueira joins us now from the white house. mike, we've been talking about this all morning long. is there a unified message from the white house? >> reporter: well, the message here is what it often boils down to. is this a grassroots effort, or is this astroturf. is this a group of rebel rousers exercising their first amendment right, or is this a bunch of fringe elements that have been organized to go and disrupt these meetings? as far as the white house is concerned, they have called these people -- this effort organized, totally intended to disrupt the meetings, not to offer any constructive discussion about where the health care bill is going. the trouble for democrats or the danger they have is it becomes self-perpetuating. if they criticize these people too much, it feeds into this perception of washington that has got these people very angry to begin, that they're trying to muzzle debate, that they're trying to take over society in some