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breaking news at this hour, new video of the search in the hudson river after a midair collision kills nine people an a clear, sunny day. we are live with the breaking news developments, plus -- >> that's michael jackson's best friend dropping quite a bombshell. could he be the father of jackson's daughter, paris? and angry protesters interrupt more health care town halls this time in iowa, the republican party insisting it is not behind the outbursts. and amazing pictures coming from the typhoon in asia. look at that hotel plunging right into the water. we have the story on it straight ahead for you. and a very good sunday morning, you're watching "msnbc sunday." i'm alex witt. 9:00 a.m. on the east coast,

6:00 a.m. out west. divers are pulling more wreckage out of the water and in this last hour they pulled out another body as well. so far, four bodies have been recovered. nine people are presumed dead in the crash. joining me on the phone is chopper pilot heather howley, she heads up a flight instruction program and one of their services is tours of the new york city area. good morning to you. >> good morning, alex. >> you know, you look at this incident, it was a beautiful day here yesterday. it was calm, there weren't winds. could you imagine there must have been a lot of people up in the air. what is it that you think contributed to this problem? how did it happen? >> well, the cor der itself is very busy and if you're not making the radio calls as you go down the hudson you can lead to a scary situation where people don't know where other people are so that contributed to the issue and then you had the teterboro fixed wing meeting up with the helicopter already on the hudson. >> is this a visual problem? say you're in a car, more people

can relate to that. you're in a car, backing out, there's usually blind spots in the car. you have to be careful. you have your side rear view mirrors there. is there such a thing on a helicopter, is there a blind spot? are there any sort of mirrors on them to look behind you? >> no, we don't have any mirrors and yeah, it's something coming from behind you or some above and you can't really see it so that's definitely a blind spot for helicopters. >> in this case, if the fixed wing pilot was coming from behind, what might that pilot have been doing? is it possible that he or she was just looking about? >> i think when this happened the angle of the helicopter was coming at, they had their blind spot and the fixed wing that came in and approached them also had a blind spot below them so just the combination of the two together is what made it happen. >> and i know that your company offers helicopter tours as well as the new york city area. we'll be clear your company involved here, liberty tours, was involved. how close do these choppers get

over the hudson? >> we're usually not close together. we can see everyone. most helicopters have great visibility and you don't have an issue with other hospitals per se in that area so it's not really an issue for us down there. >> here's a problem, the ntsb says there was a pilot there within liberty tours who got on a two-way and informed the chopper pilot that there was a fixed wing aircraft coming up behind him. first of all, is that typical? are they serving as sort of a control tower and just looking out and why wouldn't that chopper pilot have responded like okay, 10-4, i hear that? >> the frequently most people communicate in the city is a listen only or self-announce frequency so awe nouns what's going on, where you are but not required to respond to anybody. so that may have been why the pilot didn't respond. go ahead. >> and independent helicopters is that normal protocol with your company as well?

>> yeah, absolutely. >> heather, i want to thank you for that, chopper pilot and owner of independent helicopters. jeff rossen is live in hoboken, new jersey w the latest. right after you got off the air with us you reported via our computer system another body had been pulled out of the water. what is the latest from there? >> reporter: hi alex. moments ago they pulled out the fourth body. there are still five victims trapped inside the wreckage. the hudson river is choppy. the current is strong and that is the problem for police divers right now. they have to go 30 feet deep to try to find these victims, also this morning they pulled out some debris. we understand they identified where the helicopter is and haven't found the plane. sounds odd but makes sense. all of the debris is shifting underwater. they're going back down today to figure it out and try to pull some of this out in piece this accident together. they know the plane it appears hit the back side of the chopper but they still don't know why. there are images and video from

viewers just after the accident that will actually be crucial, we're told, to the investigation and the ntsb chairman told me today they will be looking at the video to piece all of this to figure out exactly what happened and how to prevent it in the future >> maybe our director can put up some of the still photos that we have from the crash, they're quite dramatic, some of them are actually showing post impact. is there anything being bantered about, jeff n terms of the cause for this crash? whether could not have played any sort of role here. it was a beautiful day, low humidity, you know, what would be perfect flying weather. >> reporter: yes, a clear, sunny day. i am a pilot myself, private pilot and fly small planes like the one involved in the accident. it's a tough call. if you fly below 1,100 feet it's uncontrolled air space. you're supposed to be on the unicom and speak to the other pilots in the areas. the tour helicopters know what they're doing, do this every day several timings a day and

airplanes that fly, we don't know what happened in this case and everyone's supposed to talk to each other. sometimes it is so congested and there's no separation from air traffic control they rely on you for that, you can sometimes have an accident like this and it's brought up a lot of questions whether that rule should remain for below 1,100 feet so close to new york city and congested area it should be more controlled. 2006 the corey lidle crash, the yankees pitcher, swung around, hit a building in new york city and i think those questions will come up again here. >> you're absolutely right. sounds like from your description, jeff, you're pretty much on your own out there. you have the rules of the road, translated up into the air by you're on your own. >> reporter: there is a right-of-way in the air. as much as rules can help you with every different situation you're always supposed to, if you're going southbound you're supposed to be on the right and pass other planes on the right.

general, of course every situation is different a plane almost always has the right of way to the helicopter. the helicopter is supposed to be the one to get out of the way because the helicopter can stop on a dime, it can hover, drop and rise faster than a plane can. we don't know what happened here, of course. every situation is different but those are the general aviation rules. >> thanks for explaining that and keeping up on the investigation, jeff rossen, thank you. a woman and her son, two italians on vacation in new york are counting their blessing today. they had tickets for the same helicopter tour and just missed the flight. >> thanks to god, i think, because it's important, because we have a new chance in this life. >> and it turns out the boy was too scared to go on the flight and by the time his mother convinced him to go they were late getting to the heliport. coming up, how this midair collision could have happened from an aviation expert who will join me live. we to g to politics and

tempers flaring at town halls across the country over the battle to reform health care. senator harkin of iowa was interrupted several times saturday in des moines by people in the audience. >> this is not health reform! this is control! control over our lives! >> senator harkin calls those outbursts scare tactics that are part of a nationally coordinated effort to disrupt the meetings. the republican party says it's not behind the efforts but some conservative groups encouraged people to show up at the meetings. hundreds gathered in memphis, tennessee, to voice their concerns to democratic representative steve cohen. he planned to address social security and veterans benefits but the town hall turned into a raucous debate over health care reform. congressman murphy got positions from all sides on health care overhaul. president obama's week ahead includes pushing health care reform opinion on tuesday he will attend a town hall meeting

in new hampshire. let's go to be inning mike viqueira at the white house. are we expecting a more controlled situation? >> reporter: one can always shop this isn't going to be the uhmer of shove when it comes to the town hall meetings. the president has not encountered anything like that. it's usually the protesters who are outside who are the most vociferous and active in terms of the signs and some of the gestures they're making. inside they're largely supportive and the president is continuing now in portsmouth, new hampshire, on tuesday, in the interim he's going to be taking an international trip to mexico. we'll talk about that in a second. the president meets receptive audiences, many people have sincere concerns about the health care plans now moving through congress. the president generally fields those questions without any problem at all. trying to focus on what this is going to do, how it will decide

what happens to the people who are satisfied with their health insurance. the white house saying their coverage will cost less and coverage be better. >> the president is leaving for mexico today? >> reporter: he's going to the guadalajara, meeting of canada, the united states and mexico, they call them the three amigos, philippe calderon and stephen harper, and president obama. they often say when america sneezes these countries get a cold because the economies are so intertwined. we'll be talking about drug trafficking and climate change. we have breaking news from tokyo, japan. a strong earthquake shook the capital and surrounding areas. the japanese meteorological agency recorded that quake a preliminary magnitude of 6.9 but the u.s. geological survey called it 7.1 and centered in

the izu island southwest of tokyo. japanese officials say there is no danger at all of a tsunami. more dramatic pictures from asia where a typhoon is battering taiwan and china. this is a hotel building collapsing there. officials say they believe that hotel had been evacuated before it collapsed. the typhoon moved from taiwan on to the mainland where nearly a million people had to be evacuated to higher ground. at least two people have been killed in this storm. michael jackson's best friend is making a stunning revelation, mark lester says he may be the biological father of jackson's daughter, paris. we're live in london with that next. plus twitter's crash this week left millions of tweeters helpless, the attack directed at only one person but shut down the entire site. coming up what's being done to stop that from happening again. how sick is the web browsing !? all the apps... gps... video.

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a british man is claiming to be the biological father of one of michael jackson's kids. the british tabloid, news of the world, reports former child star mark lester believes he could be the biological father of jackson's daughter. is he jackson's long time friend and godfather to the singer's three children. >> the one that looks like me is paris, looking at the pictures of hariette and paris, there's a strong resemblance between the two of them. paris has blue eyes and pale collection, high cheek bones. my girls all have very similar features. >> you can see the resemblance there. tom aspell is in london.

why is he making this claim? is he asking for something? >> mark leaster is in touch with michael jackson's lawyers, he wants to stay in contact with jackson's children who are lester's godchildren. lester says paris jackson, 11 years old bears a remarkably close resemblance to his own daughter hariette. he donated sperm to michael jackson years ago because the pop singer wanted to start a family but was afraid to have sex with a woman. paris was the second of jackson's three children. mark lester gave three sperm samples to a london firm clinic in 1996 and the sperm was used for michael jackson. >> can you give me reaction of michael jackson's friends and family to this story? >> uri geller apparently says the story is probably true but i guess we won't know until there's some test carried out to prove some biological link with mark lester. >> which mark lester says he's willing to do.

we'll see where that goes. thanks very much. a police pursuit in california ends in tragedy when the car being pursued crashes into a truck carrying a family. at least seven people were killed when that car ran through an intersection in fresno. both vehicles were sent into a nearby lime orchard. four children were among those killed. newspaper reports they were thrown from the truck. economic reports out this week, hope the economy can build on the momentum of the drop in the jobless rate. we'll look at the retail industry, consumer spending and pricing as well as the meeting of the federal reserve this week, expected to highlight improvements in the economy. we get the latest from chief business correspondent rick newman. >> hi, alex. >> economics this week responding to the drop in the jobless rate, only .1%, a tenth of a percent but it's still there. how much can we make of that? >> we're getting breaks in the bad news, so instead of this

massive continual onslaught of bad news we had much of the nine months it's a moderation from that. there are technical reasons to think it's an anomaly. most economists say we'll see an unemployment rate of 10% or higher by next year and it's going to be awhile before jobs come back but certainly in washington, they are cheering that they finally have something that they can take a little bit of credit for, a slight improvements in the economy and as we all know before the economy gets healthy it stops getting worse and that's probably where we're at. >> are they cheering on wall street as well? >> they sure are. no one's quite sure why. stocks are up almost 15% over the last month an awesome rally. >> yes. >> now more often than not in recessions there are these sort of rebounds in the middle that make people think everything's back to normal and then the recession kind of picks up again where it left off. >> yes. >> a lot of people think that

stocks are overrallied at this point but they were probably undervalued before. they probably fell so far based on fear and panic that somewhere in the middle of that terrible low in march and where we are right now is kind of a normal level for stocks. >> fed reserve meeting, any changes in. >> i think you're right f we hear anything public they will probably take some credit for changes in the economy, some of that may be deserved. no one thinks the fed's going to change much, probably not going to change interest rates any time soon. the real question about the fed, when are they going to pull back a loft the money they've been putting into the economy? i think they'll do that extremely gingerly. >> aside from the individuals benefiting from the cash for clunkers when might we all see the benefit interest that? >> we are probably starting to see benefit from it. the benefit i think is overstated but some economists said we're slugtly improving our forecasts for economic growth because this is getting people out, thinking to start spending money but i think a couple of

important things need to start happening. companies need to start making money because they're selling more stuff and economic activity picks up. their earnings have been better than expected in a lot of cases but there's a direct relation between that and all the layoffs that have been happening so they're making more money because they have fewer people on payroll, making more money because they've been cutting for the most part. they're actually selling more stuff, that hasn't really happened yet and when that happens let's hope they start hiring again. >> okay, let's hope. rick newman thanks so much. >> thanks, alex. sarah palin says hell no to president obama's health care overaul. this week's political controversies coming up. and a disturbing story from paraguay, a baby declared dead is found alive. that story next on "msnbc sunday." mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help?

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in paraguay a father was preparing to bring what he thought was a dead baby girl he brought home from the hospital. then he heard crying from the cardboard box that baby was in and when he opened it, he discovered the baby was alive and a boy. the father rushed that baby back to the hospital, the same one that pronounced the three-month premature infant dead. the baby weighs less than 18 ounces, that's a tough road ahead but god bless. thursday's twitter crash was aimed at a blogger in the republic of georgia but managed to shut down the entire website for almost the whole day. the question now is will this happen again and what is being done to prevent another attack. joining me is caroline mccarthy. >> good morning. >> can they determine who were the hackers? >> it is going to be incredibly difficult. this was a denial of service of hack which occurs when hackers overwhelm the servers of a given website or in this case many websites in order to bring them down and security experts have said it's going to be extremely

difficult for them to figure out who was behind it. they found it was directed at this one pro-georgian political blogger. >> do they know it came from inside that country or russia, constant friction between the two? >> they're not sure. >> los angeles? they don't know? >> this is something i believe undoubtedly they will be looking into, especially considering the incredible interest surrounding twitter as a communication standard. it's a problem when it goes down and they want to find out anything they can about exactly what's making it go down. >> what do you think that causes the entire website to crash internationally? >> that's the thing, is that this really highlights how small and how fragile twitter s because the attacks were also directed against facebook, against livejournal and some properties owned by google and twitter was the only one that went completely out for a prolonged period of time. facebook was noticeably hurt by it, that there were certain features that were not working but none of the services had outages as prolonged as

twitter's. >> people can be upset but is there anything they can do to prevent this from happening as individuals or you're relying on what twitter gives you. >> what a hack relies upon is thousands of what they call zombie pcs which is what happens when a user installs a piece of anti-virus -- like a virus onto their computer and that can be prevented by installing anti-virus software. it often lies dormant until the hacker sets it into action and the computers become bots or zombies. >> so we have a bunch of zombies on twitter. >> even more than usual. even more than usual. >> more than usual, yeah, we love twitter. it's fun. caroline mccarthy thank you so much. we have a few more questions in a couple of hours. appreciate that. we follow breaking developments out of new york city, divers found more wreckage and another body in the past

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welcome back to "msnbc sunday." i'm alex witt. we get to the latest on the midair crash between a helicopter and single engine plane over new york city's hudson river. a short time ago a fourth body was pulled from the waters of the hudson. we watched live in the last hour as police divers pulled more wreckage from the water. nine people are presumed dead including five italian tourists who were on board a sight-seeing helicopter. yesterday three bodies were recovered, two men and a child, all believed to have been on the plane and this morning, we are getting our first look at the crash site just moments after it happened, this is amateur video and shows what appears to be debris floating in the water on the center of your screen. this morning investigators from the national transportation safety board are back on the

scene. the ntsb chairwoman says investigators located the helicopter but have not yet found the plane. she said another helicopter pilot witnessed the collision. and joining me now is tom casey, retired american airlines pilot, a flight instructor and author of "human error and strangers gauge." with a good morning, how does this happen? where are the blind spots on the two places in terms of how you piece this together in. >> there are blind spots on aircrafts and helicopters the same way on automobiles. a plane enters 1,100 feet, it is the ceiling. an aircraft will enter at 1,100 feet and hug the right side of the river and if he's going southbound he will be on the new jersey side, northbound on the new york side and see and avoid is the rule, and there is a common frequency called the unicom freeshry, 123.05 and aircraft will monitor that.

they don't necessarily make position reports, they can but it's a heads up frequency and everybody monitors that. >> are you required, do you have to monitor that frequency? >> you don't. >> there is a problem. you drop below 1,100 feet and at that point you're on your own. >> you're on your own. >> those who say this is not good policy, we have to get the faa involved. what do you think about that? >> well, i've been flying the corridor since i was a teenager. it's popular. it's safe, with respect to statistics, statistically i believe this is the first midair collision that's taken place. >> that's what we're seeing as well at this point. is it possible then these pilots, they just don't see each other? could they be looking out admiring the viewpointing out normal things in manhattan? >> sure, but understanding any pilot who flies in the vfr corridor is aware he or she is in a more intensely populated environment. from 1,100 feet you have a view

of the helicopter traffic below you. the helicopter stays roughly at 500 to 800 feet. and you're monitoring the frequency so you'll know if there are other aircraft in your vicinity. one thing to keep in mind if you're a faster aircraft overtaking a slower aircraft on a southbound track for example, you would have to take whatever evasive procedures necessary to avoid but it's see and avoid. >> here's something that's chilling, i want to play something reported by an ntsb investigator on the scene this morning, somebody saw trouble coming. listen to this. >> we're going to be looking at visibility, we're going to be looking at whether or not the positioning of the aircraft permitted one to see the other, and the situational awareness of the pilots is very important. >> whether or not we got our sound bites mixed up, i want to tell you the point i was trying to make, an ntsb official quoting that someone on the ground saw a single engine aircraft approaching the helicopter, radioed the accident

helicopter and told him one lima hotel, you have a fixed wing behind you, there was no response from the pilot. he stated that he saw then the right wing of the airplane contact the helicopter. we know what happened after that. >> right, that would be typical. the one helicopter sees a potential conflict developing, makes the radio call. the other, i'm sure the helicopter pilot heard it, but the collision took place very rapidly after that, i believe, and so there wasn't really a lot of time. it was one of the situations rare, but will happen from time to time when both aircraft were in a blind spot and they hit. >> three bodies pulled yesterday from the waters of the hudson, two men and a child as being described, not identified yet but the general presumption is they were the three that were in the plane and yet the plane wreckage has yet to be found. how do you, what is the discrepancy here? >> what the ntsb will have to find that out. when the plane impacted with the water the door could have flown

open and the currents are strong and would sweep the bodies out and the airplane downriver. it's important to reflect on the fact that a lot of people fly this vfr corridor without incident so while this is tragic, it's not something that people should get too upset about or worried about because historically, this has been a very safe operation. >> tom casey, author of "human errors and strangers." >> stay with us for continuing coverage. we'll have live reports for the very latest throughout the morning for you. new this morning, the latest gallup poll shows president obama's current approval ratings slightly higher. the president's approval rating 58%, that number is up after hitting his administration's low point at 52%, more than a week ago. joining me live now is frank newport, editor in chief of "the gallup poll." good to see you this morning. >> thank you, good morning. >> can we put perspective, 52%,

how does that look overall? this administration's low point but not so bad, right? >> harry truman had 22, the lowest in gallup history. 55, alex, is the average across all presidents since world war ii. we've measured at gallup. so obama up now a little is roughly at about average. i should point out george w. bush was about at this exact same point in august of 2001. bill clinton was way below this in the 40s. bush's father was higher, reagan was higher. carter was higher, so obama's doing average overall and a little below where recent presidents have been in the summer of their first year in office. >> okay, with this six-point uptick, frank, how much do you think the latest job numbers and stock market numbers have to do with the turnaround? >> more the latter than the former. these numbers were friday night so only about a third of this three-day average of 58 would reflect any reaction to the announcement friday morning about the unemployment numbers but the market has been up and i

think the cash for clunkers publicity probably good for obama because it showed the economy was being stimulated, people were out there and that may have been positive. also sometimes the numbers go up and down for inexplicable reasons. >> i want to look at a quinnipiac poll, frank, on health care. 52% disapprove of the president's handling of health care. are you seeing similar trends in your polling when it comes to the president's handling of health care? >> we're asking that this weekend. i took a peak at the partial numbers and it's low. look at the question. this is fascinating. we're not asking did obama come and administer antibiotics to you personally well, but what's he done? he tried to get a health care reform bill through. it's not through yet. he's in the middle of a lot of back and forth and controversy so even obama's most ardent supporters that would be hard-pressed at this time to say he's done wonderful because he's in the midst of a fight. we'll see how it comes out. >> the summer months we are 200

days into the obama administration. overall you said where the president stands compared to other presidents in the past but do you see a trend? is this kind of where he's going to hover for awhile? do you think health care could dramatically affect, do you think a change in the economy could dramatically affect in either direction? >> well, i would say yes to all of the above. how's that, if this is an s.a.t. question. i think the real key will be 2010. these approval ratings are useful to obama's staff, because they predict elections and they're worried about next fall and of course 2012 so he's got a lot of time to see what happens from this point forward, but in terms of predicting, george bush shot to 90% a couple of months after this point, of course, after 9/11. bill clinton who was so miserable picked up and '96 won handily over bob dole. that's why we continue to poll. >> that's why you continue to come on and talk with us about

it. i owe you an apology if that was like an s.a.t. question that's nasty. >> an 800 for you on the verbal part here, alex. >> okay, thanks very much, frank newport. well, lawmakers making the rounds of the sunday talk shows are weighing in on this and the town hall outbursts. we're live at the white house with that as president obama prepares for his next town hall meeting as well as a trip to mexico. we'll go to the white house in 20 minutes. secretary of state hillary clinton isn't done dancing yet. secretary clinton danced with the locals in south africa yesterday as she pitched in and gave a helping hand there in capetown. she helped plant flowers and moved rubble from a construction site she visited 12 years ago when she was first lady. south africa is the second stop on clinton's 11-day tour of the african continent and also has stops planned in angola, nigeria and liberia where she's been doing a great job with her dancing. let's go to the latest on the cash for clunkers program. many dealers are running out of new cars. the small fuel-efficient models

are flying off the lots and some dealerships had to close down this weekend because they ran out of the clunker eligible cars. however, some used car dealers say the cash for clunkers program is starting to drive away their business. last week the program was extended until labor day. it is an important time of year in the retail industry, it's back to school time. parents and students are getting much needed bargains and tax breaks on school supplies, this is beneficial to shoppers and retailers. more from cnbc's trish regan. >> in 90-degree morning heat hundreds of shoppers, some with umbrellas to shield them from the scorching sun, wait outside a kansas city apple store for their chance to save money. >> we got out here at 8:30 and it's worth being out here. i'm always about saving a buck especially in this economy. >> she'll save 4.2% on her purchase thanks to the weekend tax holiday on back-to-school items including computers. this weekend, ten states from north carolina to new mexico are

offering early back-to-school tax breaks on everything from clothing to backpacks to electronics. retailers hope the incentive also create a surge in consumer spending. >> our research shows an uptick in sales in affected stores sometimes as high as 40%. >> reporter: but with the economy struggling to emerge from its deepest recession since the 1930s, some analysts say it won't be easy getting americans to loosen their purse strings. july sales numbers down 5.1% overall, that's weaker than the 4.5% average decline since february. department store jc penny got hit, off 12.3% and luxury retailer sachs sretail er saks 16.3%. sales at target down 6.5%. sluggish sales could mean big bargains for consumers come fall, when retailers make a last-ditch effort to move sale

merchandise off store shelves. >> more retailers will do more promotions around the time when schools go back. >> for shoppers these days any break means a lot. trish regan, cnbc, new york. protesters turn a coffee shop gathering into a free-for-all in missouri. the latest event interrupted by a shouting match over health care reform. up next, who should stop the outbursts? to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. (announcer) side effects were generally mild and included headache. viral infection, sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and save up to $15 off your refills. go to nasonex.com for details, terms and conditions. has the fastest serve

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health care reform heating up this weekend. take a listen. >> more means pork! >> that was the scene in lee summit, missouri, yesterday, a monthly meeting at a coffee shop with congressman drew, with a

congressman, it drew an unusually large crowd which spilled out into the streets. groups of supporters and opponents showed up to express their position on president obama's health care plan. joining me live now is keith richburg for "the washington post." good morning to you. >> good morning. >> you look at what's happening in the town hall meetings it's hard to imagine any of these legitimate concerns could productively be discussed. how is the volume going to be turned down and whose responsibility is it to do that? >> unfortunately, i don't think it will be turned down because it's become political theater of the streets, each side wanting to show they've got the support and this is primarily because the republicans know they can't win this thing in the congress. they're 70 seats down in the house, it's a democratic majority in the senate and so they're trying to take it to the streets so show they can outmobilize. they lost it in congress in some form and trying to show

constituents on their side. they don't have any interest in ratcheting it down. >> to what gain? we've got four weeks, a little bit more than that, everyone comes back to congress labor day and ratcheting all the dialogue back up again trying to figure this whole thing out. isn't this period of time supposed to be a time the constituents ask questions, get answers. >> exactly. >> and things are clarified. what's the point of further muddying the waters and not letting the information get out? >> exactly, because they know this is the only way they can block passage of a bill creating the street theater that it creates for us in the media, you put it on youtube, it creates the image that the country is opposed to this when in fact this is a handful of activists. most people aren't going to town hall meetings. these are people organized by social networking sites by conservative groups and labor unions who are going out and trying to create this image that there's a hot debate going on when in fact all they're doing is shouting down. >> you're journalizing saying "all of them." are there any folks that have legitimate concerns and the

points they're trying to make are valid ones? >> some of the ones we see, the animated where people are up shouting, no, they're not legitimate concerns. listen to what they're shouting. "we don't want socialized medicine, we don't want euthanasia." they have nazi symbols out. one screaming "hitler had a solution, what are we going to call ours?" these aren't people saying we have questions about the bill. these are people screaming we don't want socialized medicine, we don't want, this we don't want that. >> let's get to sarah palin, she generated a fair amount of controversy based on what she put on her facebook, how she feels about the president's health care plan and she writes in part, "the america i know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with down syndrome will have to stand in front of obama's death panel so his bureaucrats can decide based on a subjective judgment of their level of productivity in society whether they are worthy of health care. such a system is downright evil." what part of the plan is she

referring to and is there any truth at all in what she's saying? >> no, there's no truth at all. nobody ever know what sarah palin's talking about, first of all. let's put that on the table, but you know, i think the problem here is that what happens is, she's being disingenuous and the people doing this know, to be unfair, they're lying and they know they're lying but that's the way you generate controversy. there is a segment of the bill that says if you want to have an end of life a sentence in the , if you want to have an end of life decision -- we've all had that, i had it with my father, meaning you just want to decide what to do if you get to a state to be kept alive artificially. the health care bill will pay to have a doctor there for that consultation. >> once every five years. >> you get to a certain age -- >> you talk about end of life, dnrs, do not resuscitate, for yourself if you were not in a position to choose. >> it never says they'll encourage the doctor to advise you one way or the other.

>> what's the "death panel?" >> it doesn't exist. it exists in sarah palin's mind, the same mind that saw ssh ssh from her house. that's what i'm talking about, nobody knows what she's talking about. these town halls are not accomplishing anything because the people who don't want health care passed are picking out things, creating things that don't exist. they're creating death panels, creating socialized medicine, creating things that don't exist to whip up opposition to the plan. >> i'm going to have a bunch of tweets from people in 10, 15 minutes from people who are supportive of sarah palin and they're going to be angry with us. it is just indicative of all the passion on both sides. >> the truth doesn't matter in these things. it is like the birther movement. you can show them the proof but it doesn't matter. >> we hope that it matters by the time everyone gets into congress and they can talk about it. interesting intellectually,

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it's a tough economy. if it's put a damper on your summer travel plans, you may want to take advantage of some great deals. the recession has caused airfares to plummet. hotels are slashing prices, some by as much as 50% to attract travelers. joining me now, genevieve shaw-brown, senior travel editor for travelocity.com. >> airfares are down big time, 17% for domestic flights, 18% on international flights. this is good news for travelers. you might think no one is traveling. that's not the case. people are taking advantage of these deals. what's different for the airlines is that there is a lack of business. travelers are how airlines make

their money. >> if you don't mind setting in the back of the plane where are the good deals? >> airfares are down as much as 30% in some destinations, even overseas, very popular destinations like paris, london, rome. you can get there 30% off what it was last year. right here in the states, boston, down over 20%. san diego down over 20%. lots of great deals. >> any red flags to look out for when you try and book these flights? you going to get caught up in something and you don't get to take advantage of the great deals? >> here's the thing. people don't really know what a deal is. we hear a lot about there are deals out there. what is the deal, right? $300 round trip is the average flight price for a domestic flight. if you're seeing something in that price range, you're getting a good deal. if you're seeing something way over that, not a great deal. >> it doesn't matter, you go from new york to minneapolis, versus new york to l.a. >> obviously that is the average. say new york to florida, going

to be a little bit less. new york to california, maybe a little bit more. but in that price range is where you want to keep your -- >> how long is this lasting? >> you need to take advantage of it right now. flights are inexpense, hotels are inexpensive. capacity cuts are planned by big airlines this fall. historically that means higher airfare. however, there is no history for where we are in terms of the economy and demand, where fuel prices are going to go. but the going is good right now. take advantage of it. >> if you are thinking only four more weeks before kids go back to school, where can you go? >> san diego, room rates are down 20% from where they were last year. it is a great place for families. and hawaii. seems exotic but there are a lot of hotels deals going on that can make up for higher airfare to get there. >> wish we didn't have to work. we could take off and go someplace. thank you. we continue to following breaking developments on the hudson river in new york city. divers are finding more wreckage and the search for those killed

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