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combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there. good morning, everyone. welcome to a brand-new hour of msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. right now on msnbc, the battle over health care hits a fever pitch in the heartland with angry protesters pounding away at lawmakers and turning town halls into chaos. today, the white house fights to regain control. is america off course in afghanistan? the top u.s. commander says the taliban now actually holds the upper hand while the jury is still out on whether the president's revamped strategy is taking hold. nobel prize winning economist declares the world has aremembered averted a great second depression. is the government the solution? we have a terrific lineup this hour.

democratic congressman and senate challenger joe sestak stops by and u.s. news and world reporter peter roth and ryan ellis and tim martin and del castilla will be with us. chuck todd is at the white house in addition and richard engel will report live from us from afghanistan. recovery crews resumed operations this morning following tragic mid air collision over the hudson river. nine people were killed in the disaster involving a private plane and tourist helicopter. predawn bombings in iraq killed 40 people. the blast are the latest major round of attack since u.s. forces withdrew from iraq's urban areas in june. pennsylvania authorities say the man who killed three women and himself during a shooting rampage was questioned by police a week before the massacre took

place. george sodini matched the description of a man pulled a gun out of a computer bag but let go when the witness could not positively identify him. mark lester told a british tabloid he, in fact, could be the biological father to paris jackson. >> michael jackson in a private conversation would i be willing to donate sperm on his behalf. we have a special bond between my children, my family and michael's family. i feel, obviously, special affinity towards paris. >> lester is consulting with attorneys regarding his rights to contact with the children. as i do every morning, i want to introduce my co-host this morning. each day, as you know on this show, i invite a special coe host and i'm pleased to once again have mort zuckerman. good to see you. >> good to be here as always.

>> also a little bit of a sports bragger. >> well, i don't know why you would say that just this particular time. it's being so typical of my entire career. >> you and the new york yankees are feeling too good about life these days. >> you know, i pitch softball out in the hamptons. >> this, i know. >> the past 25 years. it's -- one game, we played in yankees stadium. i wouldn't say the crowd erupted. there were eight people there but it was a great thrill to do. but the yankees are doing phenomenally well and wiped up the boston red sox who were their great challenger for how many years now? and they wiped them out 4-0 in the last four games and 6 1/2 games ahead and great pitching and great hitting and great fielding but other than that, i think they're playing normally. >> i will bring in an ally, fellow floridian right now. chuck todd will be with us in a moment. president obama is in mexico what is nicknamed the three amigo summit. the president is behind closed

doors with the leaders of canada and mexico. nbc news chief white house correspondent and fellow floridian chuck todd joins me right now. chuck, as the president heads down, as he sits in with the leaders of both canada and mexico, what is expected to come forth out of that? is it largely an economic conversation or are they discussing other issues, including illegal drugs and each the immigration question? >> probably the most important thing that the three of them are talking about is how they are going to coordinate their responses to the h1n1 flu virus that is expected to take off a little bit fountain fall. that may be frankly the most important conversation among the three countries, because having a coordinated response on this is going to be important, particularly with a vaccine not available it looks like until mid october. that might be the single most important issue on the topic in the near term. there is all sorts of -- this is very much an incremental meeting where they are discussing issues they almost always have to do

when it's on trade. it has to do with the mexico trucking issue, about whether getting free passages for trucks over the border from mexico into the united states. the economy, obviously, is a big deal. look. when our economy takes a dive, mexico really is in pain down there. that's a big part of the conversation. but, really, i think h1n1 and how coordinating their efforts and lessons learned from the mexicans on this is probably the single most important issue they are talking about. >> yeah. you know the mexican economy was contracting at an annualized rate at 21%. oil prices way down and tourism is way down. they are really under great economic pressure. at the same time they are trying to fight these major league drug gangs. >> do you think that raises the question of even though we're in the midst of a recession of more u.s. aid to mexico? >> i don't think we will be providing aid to them. there are things we can do and particularly help some of their

people come and work. i don't know what else we can do for them because we have our own economic problems. it's not a time where people are going to be receptive to bringing in people from mexico to take jobs that might otherwise be taken by americans. >> chuck, i want to move on to a different topic, something that mitch mcconnell had to say on fox news this sunday. take a listen and then i want to hear your reaction to it. >> okay. >> i don't think either side ought to be trying to engage in disrupting meetings, either the democratic side or the republican side. we ought to focus on the issue and to demonize citizens who are energetic about this strikes me as demonstrating a kind of weakness in your position. >> chuck, where do things stand from the white house's perspective on these town hall meetings and where they go to from here? >> well, look. they have a new two-prong approach this week. number one, using whitehouse.gov to beat back the fact issues they've been dealing with sort of fact-check the critiques

coming from the right having to do with euthanasia and abortion and all of these things that really don't have anything to do with the centerpiece of health care reform. so that's number one. they are trying to fight back there. number two, they are using through the arm of the dnc trying to fire up the obama base a little bit and get those folks to show up to congressional district offices to try to get their voices heard and see if they can counter this -- look. the right, the conservatives here, one of the things that's been missing i think is the conservatives having success in organizationing. if they are orchestrated, so what. as far as politicians are concerned that means they are better than the obama folks who arguably did this themselves during the campaign and showed a lot of success. so now, this i think, team obama

needs to show they can counter and if they can't that will ab big blow tho them. >> chuck, thank you. we will continue the conversation with congressman joe sestak. >> thanks for having me. >> you heard what chuck todd shared. the sense that democrats had been unusually adept at organizing that maybe there's been a shift and maybe, in fact, instead of complaining about what the republicans are doing, democrats need to get their own coordinating grassroots organizing mojo back. is that how you see some of the town hall chaos that has emerged the last several weeks? >> it's exactly how i feel. how can we complain? we are taking on a tough problem. health care reform where we haven't had an effort like this since the clinton administration. i'm a public servant. i've only been in politics three years and i had a town hall the day after we left congress and, yes, i had those that came and

were quite -- but i saw a look at of good people that had come and were just very anxious because i don't believe we have done a good enough job of messaging of what is good in this bill. i'm actually having wednesday night, in the center of philadelphia, at broad street minist ministry, another town hall and opening it up to everyone. we have to listen, but more than that, we also having done what we should have prepared better to get out there and explain what is good in this bill and why, if you have health insurance today, you're going to actually be paying less in copays. you're actually not going to be able to be denied any longer the ability, if you have a pre-existing condition, not to get health insurance. and that goodness is our responsibility to explain to people and we shouldn't as leaders be backing down. we should be out there leading. >> congressman, interesting you say that because mort and i were discussing that this morning. in fact, mort, i'll let you jump in. >> you have two problems. one is there is clearly a great deal of growing unease about the

health care program. you not only have to address the good parts, you also have to deal with the concerns and where you have a sense that the health care program is going to cost, god knows, a trillion to a trillion and a half dollars instead of reducing the health care cost which was the original concern about run-away health care costs you have to find a way to address that in terms people can understand and that has been a signal failure it seems to me so far of the democratic approach of the health care program. how do you address that? >> absolutely. first, we need to say why this is good. much as "the new york times" editorial said so well, the massachusetts health care plan has done very good things in step one. but step two is the cost. and we have to be up front about that. the cost is budget neutral. we found 550 million dollars in medicare savings without cutting any benefits at all and the congressional budget office verified that. second, are we raising revenues from the top 1% of the wage earners of america that got 53% of all the tax cuts from the

bush era? yes, we are, but it's a budget neutral approach and we have to be up front about that. step two is beginning to cut the cost curve down as we begin to get preventive care, early diagnosis and you see the savings accrue in years to come. that's the approach we have to do. but this effort of ours is budget neutral with the exception of the medicare 21% cut in physicians pay that would have happened anyway outside this plan. so that's why we have to be out there, letting people know it is a pay as you go effort. >> but if you have a health care program that is perceived by the country to be too expensive today, to say reef revenue neutral is not the right objective. you have to find a way to constrain the costs and not about adding taxes. i'm certainly in favoring adding taxes on the wealthy but you need some tax revenue to deal with the budget deficit and everybody in america understanding the problems of debt people are now really concerned about adding to the national debt. >> very good point. >> you're not draefg those points.

>> yes, we are. here is why, sir. you, as an individual, pay $400 on your private health care plan today to cover the uninsured because when they go into a emergency room the hospital passes it up to the insurance company. we're saying bring in the uninsured and pay for it up front. we're merely shifting the cost to be more direct. second, we are not adding to the debt with this proposal. do we want to, over time, get the economy going again? with small businesses be giving tax credits and tax cuts rather than big oil, so we can get entrepreneurship the norm and not the exception and then have the revenues. as we control entitlement spending which with he must do and setting the stage for doing it and we must next year, then we get the economy going again with the right revenues. no, health care reform is needed because not doing it means we lose 100 billion a year in lost economic output. this is not just the right thing to do for individuals.

our economy needs it and that is the argument that democrats have to get out there and i intend to do that wednesday evening, 6:30, broad street ministry here in philadelphia. >> congressman sestak, you fired me up and woke me up this morning! i got to ask you as someone who announced early you're running against incumbent articlen specter, what kind of reception are you finding outside pennsylvania? are you hearing from other democrats thinking about interparty challenge for one of their incumbents at all? >> the only one i'm listen to go is the people from pennsylvania. the working families. i went to all 67 counties in three weeks this july. and what i know is this and why i'm fired up. i'm fired up because somehow washington, d.c. -- and while i special arlen specter didn't keep in mind the working family

and engine of our economy. the tax cuts i mentioned went to the wealthy and somehow the deregulation of wall street and the tax incentives that shift jobs overseas as he voted with president bush meant that we only let those who prospered from the economy reap the rewards, not knows that are the engine. am i fired up? my gosh, we have to, in washington, d.c., listen to the people, as these town halls are meant to do. even though to criticize us but it's the working family that truly needs a warrior out there for the next 30 years in pennsylvania. >> if it's the first time you've said that, congressman? >> no! i've been saying this for quite some time in different words. every time, it's different, but the meaning is the same. principle over politics. heaven forbid if we can't capture that in washington, d.c. >> congressman, we have to leave it there but thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> do you find the town hall disruptions hurting or helping the health care debate. we want to hear from you.

go to twitter.msnbc.com and you'll see my picture there. click on it and shoot me a tweet. or you can go to twitter.com/carloswatson, another way to find me. we will read these later today and let us know what you think. conservatives seem to have found their line of attack but will that translate into real political power? is the conservative movement becoming relevant or irrelevant? illinois ousted government blagojevich launched own website and highlighting his personal appearances including this tribute to the king, elvis presley. this is msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. ♪ what's our favorite part of honey bunches of oats? the sparkly flakes. the honey-baked bunches! the magic's in the mix. my favorite part? eating it. honey bunches of oats. taste the joy we put in every spoonful. but i did. you need to talk to your doctor about aspirin.

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson.

hat conservative movement become unhinged? sarah palin is telling people that under president obama's health care plan, bureaucrats could choose to kill her baby. other loudly insist that president obama was born in kenya. with me live is peter roth and a senior fellow at the institute of liberty and joining us from democratic strategist and former dnc communications chair karen finney. peter, you and i have talked on and off the last several days about whether there is conservative revitalization going on or whether the birthers and sarah palin's comments and other things where they become unhinged. your thoughts? >> the birthers are not part of the conservative movement. they're a small fringe. it's a distraction from the real issue. i think that the conservatives have come back to life fighting the obama administration on the

stimulus, fighting them on the cap and trade national energy tax and fighting them on this haermt reform health care reform that is leading to rationinger wait times and denial of care and all kinds of problems. the people at the town hall meetings are coming out saying we don't like this. >> karen, what do you hear when you hear sarah palin who was the party's vice president ial and talking about death panels? >> right. it's outrageous. everything that peter just said in terms of the criticism of the health care plan is the same playbook we heard in 1994 from the republicans who tried to stop health care reform back then and they, obviously, trying to do it again now. look. i think the conservative -- >> it is true. >> it is so not true. you think about people having their health care rationed already these days you need to talk to people in america. i'd like to finish my point about conservatives. if we look at what is happening

with the conservative movement, unfortunately, they've become increasingly marginalized on the right. they are part of the conservative movement and not a single conservative leader was so quick to stand up in opposition and it took quite a while before any stood up and said, wait a second. >> you want to talk about a birth movement? let's talk about the folks not disowned by the obama administration running around claiming that sarah palin's son trig wasn't her son. you got your own birther problems. >> nobody from the administration -- nobody from the campaign even said that. >> karen and peter, hang on one second. mort, when we talk about this, is the conservative movement in a more positive place today in the midst of a turnaround or unhinged? >> they are more political energy because there is a sense the obama administration is in trouble so the issue is not how good the conservative movement is but they have a target and that is the failure through the difficulties of the obama

administration. i don't think either the liberals or the conservatives can govern this country unless they move to the center. the conservatives are the no moving to the center and not are -- >> i think that's true. >> yeah. >> peter, jump in for a quick record word and then karen gets the final. >> i think what mort is saying is true. this is a center right nation. the conservatives have to have a center right agenda. they can't abandon the center as arguably they did around the 2008 election. mccain, obviously, was not a conservative and not someone to get excited about, but it is easier to be in opposition than to govern. this is what the democrats found in 2004, 2008 when they were disrupting bush events, when they were hanging doing all of the things they were doing. the bush administration is easy to complain and very hard to govern. >> peter, karen gets the final word here. thirty seconds. >> i was going to say that i do

think the conservatives, while they are fairly marginalized to the right they have found a voice and found a couple of hot button issues to galvanize around that they weren't able to do around john mccain. the question is that enough? we're a center or center left nation and i think the problem the republican party continues to not appeal to african-americans or his span nix or young voters or married voters and need to make decisions how they come back to the center they are fthey are going to regroup and take hold of some seats, which i think democrats need to be prepared that they could absolutely do. we shouldn't take it for granted. >> we're going to leave it there for now. karen and peter, thank you both for joining us. >> thank you. ahead is the u.s. strategy running off course in afghanistan? new questions today as the taliban gains momentum over coalition forces. at home a leading republican talks about making the same mistakes in afghanistan that we made in iraq. you're watching msnbc live.

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. america's top commander in afghanistan is now denying that he told "the wall street journal" that the taliban is winning the war. spokesman for general stanley mchrystal tells nbc, quote. this comes as the obama administration is asking for patience to decide if the new strategy in afghanistan is working. >> you can't predict here where the tipping point is just like we couldn't predict it in iraq. we will know whether this strategy is working within -- by the end of the fex year. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is live in kabul, afghanistan. here with me is roxanne from columbia university and jimed by kim martins from columbia

university and joined by my co-host mort zuckerman. you visited afghanistan before, kim, you studied this region of the world and heard a lot of what national security adviser jim jones and others have had to say. are we in more trouble in afghanistan than perhaps we thought we would be six months ago some. >> carlos, i wish we were doing as well as the yankees and we're not. but there's some positive things. the united states counterinsurgency strategy is very much focused on what it should be focused on and providing security for the local population, trying to work on development assistance and get things more unified and more coordinated. the problem we have to take shortcuts because not enough resources and isn't enough political will to do the job right. one of the problems we're trying to pay off some local people to provide their own security and there's a danger there that we'll create more new war lords. >> richard, live in afghanistan,

you've had conversation with a wide range of people there. your thoughts what professor martins said and what the obama administration figures this weekend. >> i think there's a grol realization here, not only comoong commanders but also soldiers that the current strategy need to change and that the taliban has become very strong and, to a certain degree, is setting the agenda here. and what we're going to -- what we expect -- what we're expecting from the commanding general some time after afghan elections, which are only in ten days, is a full policy review, whether he will ask for more troops, whether he will -- how to change his opinions on how to deploy those troops. we're waiting to see that. already today in interviews he is starting to be -- to give, this is general stanley mchrystal, we're getting an indication of how that policy is changing and it talks about concentrating forces in civilian centers, perhaps pulling them out of some of these far-flung remote outposts that have been

magnets for so much combat and paengs potentially bringing in more troops although he has not made that specific request. >> you've studied this area and you've studied a number of these societies where there is significant conflicts and you hear richard talk about a revisiting the plan right now. you see the headlines say there may be another 45,000 troops needed in afghanistan. what are your thoughts in terms of the u.s.' opportunity to make real progress in this difficult place? >> well, i think if we look at the country coming out of war or in conflict, the record is not only expensive but increasingly bloody. i don't think a military solution is possible for afghanistan. i think -- >> even with more troops? >> i don't think a military solution alone is going to do for afghanistan. i think we have to pay more attention to reconstruction. if we look at the figures, 220 billion dollars have been spent

on the military and security agenda, and only less than 10 billion in construction. that is not -- we know over half the country is getting to some kind of peace. they go back to conflict and the other half end up dependent. in light of financial crisis i don't think this is a sustainable solution. >> mort, a quick word. >> in a country where you have a huge drug trade and a hugely corrupt government, is there any way that you can imagine a major economic stimulus program working to engage the people in a different direction? >> yes, i do. i think it is in disarray and discuss how we move forward. first of all, only 20%, 20% of the aid is channeled through the government of afghanistan, so to say that the government is corrupt tells only part of this story.

the other issue is that if the government does not have money to provide services, then it doesn't have legitimacy. >> you guys, we have to wrap here. kim, quick 20 seconds. >> afghan solidarity plan is a great way to get money to the government. the problem is large areas of country are insecure and -- >> i'm going to leave it there. i know more but i look forward to you coming back in the next or two. >> be delighted to do that. >> thank you both. richard in afghanistan, be safe. thank you as well. coming up next, liberals are they being aggressive enough in getting the health care message out? we're going to talk about that. you're watching msnbc live. your place for politics. >> now actual fist fights breaking out in the town hall meetings. i have to say this. if you get injured while fighting against health care, you have to lie there and bleed! you just do. i'm sorry! ♪

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welcome back to msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. to liberals need to grow a spine in the fight over health care? in fact, critics saying that democrats seemingly end a quest for bipartisan bills watering down any effort at reform. with me to talk about this is a democratic strategist and correspondent for the nation. also joined today in washington by ryan ellis who is a tax policy director for americans for tax reform. and joined again by mort zuckerman. bill mar made me laugh when he said he wanted to prescribe a new medicine for democrats called grow a set. when you hear the number two democrat in the senate dick durbin saying public option you may have to forego and democrats seeming to back away at some of these town halls and seem to whine as some have critiqued them as doing, what do you say

to that? >> i think two problems running into each other. one, nobody lix wavering. i don't care what the issue is. two, this is a complicated area. the public option is one of the things we've heard from progressives and health care advocates that create competition and would be good. when you see them wavering there on a story that is already complicated they are not giving people back mom home a clear guidance why this is important. wavering is bad and taking something complicated and letting it get more complicated. if it doesn't have the public option is it urgent and important? then you get the people at the town halls pushing back and you lose the momentum. >> ryan, i know you're on the other side of the aisle on the conservative family, but if you were advising progressives, what would you say to them? would you say that they need to pass on bipartisanship for the moment? do they need to get more aggressive or, in the end, for all of the drama, is president barack obama likely to get a big victory and, in the end, the unemployment numbers will be the story? >> the first thing i would

advise him to do is not try to shove this down the country's throat. there was a push to try to get this done by the august recess. at one point, president obama wanted a bill out of both chambers by the august recess. look. this is a huge, huge bill. it costs over a trillion dollars on the house side and over 700 billion dollars over ten years in tax increases. the congressional budget office said this increase is the debt by hundreds of billions of dollars. at the very least, if you're a liberal, if you're an honest liberal on the left and you think this is a good idea, you have to slow down and explain this because people are frightened right now. >> let me ask. this is a matter of political strategy. would it not have served the liberals best if they had -- i don't know if that is my mike or somebody else. >> a little noise drama there. >> where do the democrats go from here? there is an opportunity for them to use a parliamentary technique

and ultimately pass health care with 51 votes instead of looking to get the veto approved 60. mort? >> there is real technicalities in that 51 vote approval that make it very difficult to get through the kind of programs that are implicit in this health care reform bill and that is the real problem in that. >> yeah, i do think part of it is having the president sit down with the leaders especially in the senate where we see more problems for the democratic approach and drawing lines. they have avoided drawing lines and that is complicated the story and -- >> you are almost proposing a ronald reagan approach. we have talked about this a lot. even if the compromise was uniquely talented at drawing a hard line whether it be on taxes or defense spending or what have you, ultimately, striking a deal in part because they had drawn a hard line? >> on money the stuff comes back to money. we have seen over 50 million already spent in astsing alone. when you hand it over to congress, you give the special interest more control so the president has got to -- >> i hate to do this but we have

to leave it there. and take it to a break. thank you, though. . ryan, thank you for joining us in d.c. do you think democrats need to step up the game in the health care debate? we want to hear from you. go to twitter.msnbc.com and you'll see my picture there. or you can go to twitter.com/carloswatson, a number of you are already doing that. up next will the silicon valley take the driver's seat in the road to the economic recovery? we take a look at how some of the tech giants are fueling big projects for wall street. you're watching msnbc live. i'm carlos watson. i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

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and blue line represents dow. both up and nasdaq getting more love and stronger up nearly 27% for the year. joining me now to talk about all of this is sill von valley entrepreneur audrey mcclain and a professor at stanford university and i'm joined by mort zuckerman as well. we started a conversation a couple of weeks about the difficult economic time we're having whether or not the silicon valley can lead us out of the recession. your thoughts? >> when we spoke, i guess, two weeks ago now we talked about the fact there is a pretty strong precedent for this if you look at the '70s and '80s. there was a real bad economy. tight venture capital markets and dormat market. intel and fedex and microsoft and apple and others emerged drk during that same time. i think we can see something similar to that now. >> mort, i'm interested in your take on this.

oddly enough, you said that during difficult times sometimes you get better companies. a little darwinian? >> absolutely. when capital is tight, the ideas have to be more compelling and the intermanure entrepreneur needs to be more tenacious because they have to fund the companies over a longer period of time until they are able to build a company that can go public. >> certainly our comparative advantage as a country is? the high tech and venture capital area. it doesn't mean it's going to solve things in the short run but the long run future of our economy is dependent upon that. what are the restrictions going forward in your judgment? >> i think your observation is exactly on the money. if you look at the venture-backed companies, they represent today, 17.6% of gdp and 9.1% of all private sector jobs. that is 10 million jobs. >> wow. >> if you look at the ecosystem that we've got which is this

balance of innovation and investment, we have to make sure we're making moves from a policy standpoint that are supportive of that ecosystem so we know where the next 10 million jobs come from. >> what is the biggest policy difference in your mind that will allow facebook to hire a lot more people and twitter or even the tech companies that are just getting started and we don't know of yet? >> right the ones we don't know of yet. i think it's a three-legged stool. it's research, innovation and it's capital. on the research front, i was certainly pleased to see 24.5 billion from the recovery act going into -- or 48, i think, early stage companies that are building batteries and other ecotechnology. that's a good move. >> but now i think only because i know we only have a minute left. >> my goodness! >> but you've told me before that you thought that while research and other things are important you've told me that immigration you thought was a part of this conversation. >> immigration, absolutely fuels

innovation. it did when andrew carnegie came here and when they started googship google. he was able to get his visa before we shut them down or ratcheted them down to a low level after 9/11. we need to -- >> that is the single most important issue bill gates says the high tech world needs from washington is raise the number of people who can stay in the country. we are educating people and giving them ph.d.s and all of the hard sciences and not allowing them to stay here and they are going to congress hong kong and becoming competitive with us. >> i teached in stanford in '94, 50% of my students were nonu.s. born and this year 50% of my students are nonu.s. born. that hasn't changed but the difference is in '94 they took jobs here and now all forced to leave. interesting fact that people don't realize is 47% of all high tech start-ups have at least one foreign-born founder. >> we're going to leave it there but we're going to ask you to

come back the next quks and continue this conversation. >> thank you. >> a lot of you have been posting on my twitter page since the start of the show. m.d. boston wrote and said they jumped shot at it from a helicopter and added stuff mounted on the wall. another viewer bp 1 10 writes rearranging the chairs on the political titanic. politics is a strange business. music note writes your guest host is very correct. town hall protests are happening -- happened to a very right conservative audience when most are right. mort, we shouldn't allow that on the air. >> i think that person should be honored. i'll be happy to send him a gift. when is your birthday? >> you can follow me or mort at twitter. you find my picture there. click on. we will read some of your notes every show so let us know what

you are thinking or what we should be talking about. coming up next, one of my favorite comedians stepping out with a 19-year-old father of bristol palin's baby? kathy griffin. what is behind that? we get the dish coming up next from mort zuckerman! imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there. - how? - well, funny you should ask. say i stay 5 nights on business, then 5 nights on a family vacay, boom. free night. welcomerewards. smart. so smart. ( whooshing, riders cheering )

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welcome back to "msnbc live." i'm carlos watson. it turns out that levi johnston's 15 minutes of fame aren't up yet. bristol palin's ex-fiancee showed up at the teen choice awards that were taped last night as comedian kathy griffin's date. hand in hand, they walked out on the red carpet. noah levy is the senior editor of "in touch weekly." noah joins me right now on the phone. what is going on? >> this is the year of the cougar and it looks like kathy griffin is jumping on the

bandwagon, she is 49, she is 19, and she brought him to the teen choice awards. >> so are we starting rumors here, or are they just having fun, because kathy's one of my favorite comedian. >> i think this is just a lot of media fun. they both get the joke, they both love the press, and why not? everyone had a great time with the whole thing. >> i'm here with mort zuckerman, who was jealous of levi and says that -- >> this is the gift that keeps on giving. carlos recommended that i go out with a woman that was as young as 49, i don't know what that means. >> no, that's good advice. you know what, why not? get press wherever you can get, and younger is great with older, vice versa, why not? nova levy, appreciate you joining us and look forward to having you on the show again. >> take care. talk to you soon. every day i usually offer up a big thought and we call it the "c" note. today i want to talk about a word we're hearing more and more, and that's the word socialist. you hear it from a lot of conservatives these days, usually critiquing the president

or more broadly, democrats. sometimes, it's just kind of a generic conservative bludgeoning tool. that's all right too, because you hear it on the democratic side as well, right-wing nut. but what concerns me, in some of those town hall meetings where there were jokes made about lynching, et cetera, you start to wonder if in fact the word "socialist" is becoming a code word. whether "socialist" is becoming the new in word, frankly, for some angry, upset birthers and others. hope that's not the case, but it sure does say to you what david brooks said to you the other day on tv. which is more incredible conservatives have to stand up and say there's a line that has to be drawn. there's a line of responsibility that's important. and that extends to the words that we choose, including how we use, even legitimate words, like socialist. i'm going to leave it there. mort, your final thoughts for today? >> i do agree with you. i think it is very important that the political dialogue has certainly boundaries.

otherwise, nothing can get done in that kind of atmosphere. everything can gets charged. i think you're absolutely right on that point. >> and we can't forget, i think, that even though people joke about it, that the words do matter. you can ignite really significant and violent situations, not to mention destructive situations from a policy point, where you can't even have a real conversation. >> and then the conversation gets to be about the fight and not about the policy issue and everything gets distracted. >> you know, i thought -- finally, i thought what audrey mcclain shared about immigration was really interesting. so much of the immigration conversation, understandably, is about one portion of it. but that porgs about tion about innovation is a worthy conversation to have. >> and it's amazing how high the proportion of the people studying the hard sciences and getting mas and phds are foreigners. we are now training them. we do -- we have the best educational system, and what we do, we don't let them stay in the country, they go to other countries, join other companies, and become competitive with us. it's totally insane. it's one of the most

counterproductive policies not to allow these people to join american companies. >> and i still don't believe we do enough in terms of really aggressive math and science academies in low-income areas. because i do believe we could be growing more of our own there. we'll leave it there for today. i'm carlos watson. want to thank my cohost, north zuckerman, good friend and chairman of u."u.s. news & worl repor report". nancy, what do you have coming up today? >> in just a few minutes, president obama meeting in mexico. we will bring you his live news conference where swine flu is on the top of the agenda. and as you mentioned, those town hall meetings with health care front and center. boy, are we trying to scare our seniors or what? we'll talk about that. it is approaching noon on the east coast, the doctor is in. it all starts right after this. mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal

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