honduras, as has been mentioned. our three nations stand united on this issue. president zelaya remains the democratically elected president for the sake of the honduran people, peace and order must be restored. and we will continue to work with others, especially the organization of american states to achieve a negotiated and peaceful solution. finally, we pledge to continue all these efforts. i look forward to welcoming prime minister harper to washington in september. i look forward to welcoming both of my friends at the g-20 summit in pittsburgh, where i hope to reciprocate president calderon's hospitality. our progress today is a reminder that no nation can meet the challenges of our time on our own. our common aspirations can only be achieved if we work together. and that's what the nearly 500 million people in north america expect from us, so that's what we will do. thank you very much. >> thank you.

speaking foreign language ] >> translator: president obama, there are certain questions about violation of human rights here in mexico and all of these problems, fighting drug trafficking, are you going to certify mexico? and how can we move forward with the initiative? we've also been concerned about any attempt against felipe calderon's life. we know about certain threats and insecurity that prevails. this, of course, is certainly related to your country. we're concerned about the visa problem too, but what comments would you have regarding all these questions?

[ speaking foreign language ] >> here, here, i think it's coming. go ahead. [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: -- want to know if mexico is going to be certified, and if you will help. in applying resources for the initiative. we've also heard about some attempts against the life of president felipe calderon. do you have any knowledge of this? and we're also concerned about national security. we're concerned about visas, et cetera. we would like to know, is there any possibility that you might turn this around, that we might not have any limit on visas. >> i'll just address the first

two questions that seem to apply to the united states. number one, we have been very supportive of the initiative and we will continue to be supportive. and we have already seen resources transferred, equipment transferred in order to help president calderon in what is a very courageous effort to deal with a drug cartel, set of drug cartels that are not only resulting in extraordinary violence to the people of mexico, but are also undermining institutions like the police and the judiciary system that, unless stopped, will be very damaging to the country. now, with respect to the conduct of this battle against the cartels, you know, i have great confidence in president calderon's administration,

applying the law enforcement techniques that are necessary to curb the power of the cartels, but doing so in a way that's consistent with human rights. and we discussed this in our bilateral meeting. and i am confident that as the national police are trained, as the coordination between the military and local police officials is improved, there is going to be increased transparency and accountability, and that human rights will be observed. the biggest, by far, violators of human rights right now are the cartels themselves that are kidnapping people and extorting people and encouraging corruption in these regions. that's what needs to be stopped. that's what president calderon is committed to doing and that's what i'm committed to helping president calderon accomplish, as long as he is president of mexico. >> we'll continue with the canadian press.

>> on the question of visas, it's important to understand the kboegs of visa is due to one thing and one thing only, and that is the dramatic rise we have seen over the last few years and this year in particular in the number of bogus refugee claims being made from mexico into canada. it's important to understand that the decision, first of all, has nothing to do with the actions of the mexican government. the mexican government has cooperated with us in efforts to stem this particular problem, to limit this particular problem. it continues to work with us in ways we might reverse it. but the underlying problem, as i said to president kacalderon an others, the underlying problem is in the canadian refugee laws. it is simply far too easy in canada to make a bogus refugee claim as a way of entering the

country. and we have to change that. it is unfair to those who are legitimate refugees. it is also unfair to the hundreds of thousands of people who are working through our immigration semito becoystem to immigrants to our country. as i said, we will continue to work with mexican authorities to try to limit this problem, but in the absence of legislative change, it is very difficult for our governments to control this, other than through the imposition of visa. it is the only tool available to us right now. we need additional tools from our parliament to stem the flow of additional claimants. >> we'll continue with alex panetta, canadian press. is there more questions? [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: address these

three topics, which are very important to us. first of all, my government has an absolute and categorical commitment with human rights. the struggle, the battle we are fighting against organized crime is precisely to preserve the human rights of the mexican people, right to safety, to security, to personal safety and integrity, and the right to have a safe family. the right to work without being really molested or perturbed and the struggle for the security and the safety of the mexican people. obviously, we have a strong commitment to protect human rights of everybody, the victims and even of the criminals themselves. and this is how it has been, this is how it will continue to be, and this is how the federal police will act. the attorneys and armed forces will act. in all of these cases, there have been a very scrupulous effort to try to protect human

rights, in all cases. and anyone who says the contrary certainly would have to prove this, any case, just one case where the proper authority has not acted in a correct way, that the competent authorities have not punished anyone who has abused their authority, whether they be police officers, whether they be soldiers, or anyone else. we have a clear commitment with human rights. we have met this commitment and we will continue to do so. not because of any money that might come or come through merely the initiative or what's said in the u.s. congress, because we have a strong commitment to human rights and i certainly, in a personal sense, for several decades now, and i have always had this commitment. i have some details about what you have pointed out, but in any case, this certainly won't be

the first or the last occasion on which we might hear something about an attempt against my personal -- about my life, my person, but once again, the government just can't stop, it can't be deterred. we know that we are destroying their criminal organization. we're hitting them hard, we're hitting at the heart of their organization. we're making them back away, and we know, they know that we're not only taking an initiative in the struggle against crime, but we are actually being able to protect, to defend our country better as time goes by. this is not a type of vengeance, of getting back at anyone, but we want to make sure that mexico is a safe place to live in, that we will be able to move forward in this. we're not just talking about this organization, but rather, our basic objective is to

provide security, safety for the mexican people. this is something that mexican people are entitled to, that their family, that their children can go out into the streets, they can go out to lay, they can go to school, they can make progress and to fulfill their aspirations, that mexico be a free country, free of delinquency, free of violence, that mexico be a safe country. and we are not going to be intimidated, nor are they going to put a stop to our efforts. once again, i certainly hope that mexican society recognizes these, all of the efforts we're making along these lines, the police force, who have been victims of cowardly acts by the criminals and all the efforts carried out by mexican marines, by soldiers and different attorney general's offices, because we are committed to this ideal, to have a safe mexico, to have a safe country. and these are values that we believe in and it's certainly

stronger than any threat that can be made against us, about anything whatsoever. so once again, we have had dialogues with prime minister harper on several different occasions, as we did on this occasion, about the summit and the matter of visas for mexican visitors. we've talked openly, frankly, and certainly mexico certainly feels very bad about this decision, about this rejection, even though, of course, it is a privilege of the canadian government to stipulate this, but it certainly gets in the way of a good relationship of what prime minister harper and i are doing to have good relations between the two countries and explanations that prime minister has mentioned, this certainly is a problem with this bogus refugee claim problem and this has led to an abuse of the system. so we're going to try to work together to collaborate together. we're doing this here in mexico to try to do away with the

underlying causes of this abuse regarding the general system for receiving refugees in canada. once again, for me, it's very clear that as the president of the mexico, that i have the obligation of ensuring that a specific topic on the bilateral agenda not deter reaching our full potential of other matters on the agenda. and once again, here lies the great opportunity in this particular area of economic complementaryties of the two country's economies, and that this will take our whole region up to a higher state of com competitiveness, to the benefit of our people. these are the lines we have been working along and i think we have been making great strides in this sense and we certainly will continue to work along these lines in a frank and open way with prime minister harper and president obama.

[ inaudible question ] >> the first part of the question is for the three leaders. primarily, for president obama, and i would appreciate it if -- >> could you use microphone -- >> i would appreciate it if the prime minister could answer in french as well. i am wondering what you discussed about buy american at this meeting and also what power you personally have to rescind this measure and whether you intend to use that power. now, on a not completely related topic, health care has been an issue of tremendous debate in your country and canadians have looked on with some fascination as our health care system has become a political football in your country. i would like to ask prime minister harper and president obama whether there are elements. canadian health care system,

particularly the public model, that are worth emulating. >> well, first of all, with respect to the buy american provisions, i want to assure you that your prime minister raises this with me every time we see each other. so that's important to note, that he is expressing, i think, his country's concerns. i think it's also important to keep it in perspective that, in fact, we have not seen some sweeping steps towards protectionism. there was a very particular provision that was in our recovery package, our stimulus package. it did not extend beyond that. it was wto compliant. it was not something that i thought was necessary, but it was introduced at a time when we had a very severe economic situation and it was important for us to act quickly and not

get bogged down in debates around this particular provision. prime minister harper and i have discussed this and there may be mechanisms whereby states and local jurisdictions can work with the provinces to allow for cross-border procurement practices that expand the trading relationship, but i do think it's important to keep this in perspective. this is in no way has endangered the billions of dollars of trade taking place between our two countries. it's not a general provision, but it was restricted to a very particular aspect of our recovery package. with respect to the health care debate, we are having a vigorous debate in the united states and i think that's a healthy thing. the reason it's necessary is because we are on a currently unsustainable path. we spend far more per person on

health care than any nation on earth. our outcomes in terms of various measures of well-being don't rank us at the top. we're not doing better than a lot of other advanced, developed countries that are spending much less per person. individual families are being bankrupted because of the lack of insurance. we've got 46 million, 47 million people without insurance in our country. and for those who do have health insurance, they are always at risk of private insurers eliminating their insurance because of a pre-existing condition or because if they lose a job or they have changed jobs. so the final aspect of it is is that our health care inflation is going up so rapidly that our federal budget simply can't

sustain, nor can businesses that are increasingly having to make decisions, whether they hire more workers or eliminate health care. whether they stop providing coverage or they force more costs on to their workers. so the whole system is not working well. now, how do we change it? when it's one sixth of the u.s. economy, there are going to be a lot of opinions. and congress has moved forward and we are closer to achieving a serious health reform package than we have been in the last 40 to 50 years, but there's going to continue to be a vigorous debate. i've said that the canadian model works for canada, it would not work for the united states, in part, simply because we've evolved differently. we have an employer-based system and a private-based health care system that stands side by side with medicare and medicaid and our veterans administration health care system. so we've got to develop a

uniquely american approach to this problem. this, by the way, is a problem that all countries are going to have to deal with at some level, because if medical inflation continues at the pace that it's going, everybody's budgets are going to be put under severe strain. so what we're trying to do is make sure that we've got a sensible plan that provides coverage for everybody, that continues the role of the private marketplace, but provides people who don't have health insurance or are falling through the cracks in the private marketplace a realistic and meaningful option. and we've got to do it in a way that also changes our delivery system so that we're not engaged in the kind of wasteful inefficient medical spending that is so costly to us. so i suspect that we're going to have continued vigorous debate. i suspect that you canadians will continue to get dragged in by those who oppose reform, although i've said nothing about canadian health care reform.

i don't find canadians particularly scary, but i guess some of the opponents of reform think that they make a good bogeyman. i think that's a mistake. and i suspect that once we get into the fall and people look at the actual legislation that's being proposed that more sensible and reasoned arguments will emerge and we'll get this passed. sorry to take so long on the question. [ speaking foreign language ]

[ speaking foreign language ] [ speaking foreign language ] on buy american, we did have a good discussion, as president obama said. i'm very happy to see that our provinces and the federal government have recently come to an agreement to work collectively on this matter, which is largely, actually within their jurisdiction, since this concerns subnational procurement. our respective trade ministers have been talking, officials are talking, and we anticipate, i anticipate that president obama

and i will be discussing this eat greater length in our upcoming meetings. on the american health care debate, on the debate over the system of health care, as we know, as you know well, canadians support their own health care system. as for the rest of this question, my only answer is that this is an american debate and a responsibility of the provinces. >> ginger thompson, "new york times." >> i would like to start with president obama, please. given the fights that you're having to wage for health care, i wonder if you can tell us what you think the prospects are for immigration reform, for comprehensive immigration reform, which you said is your goal, and whether you think that the blows you're taking now on

health care and that the democrats are likely to take around the midterm elections will make it hard, if not impossible to achieve comprehensive immigration reform in this term and what you told president calderon about that. president calderon, i would like to hear a little bit about your thoughts on honduras. there have been some in latin america who have said that the united states has not acted strongly enough to return president zelaya to power and i wonder if you could talk a little bit about how you feel about what the united states should be doing or could be doing to restore democratic order in honduras. and prime minister harper, a few months ago, the homeland security secretary of the united states went to canada, or at least aggravated canadian sensibilities when she compared the canadian border to the mexican border. and i wonder what you think

about that and how you feel about the united states using some of the enforcement strategies adopted on the southern border in the north. thank you. >> that's all? >> that's all, mr. president. >> well, first of all, ginger, i don't know if you're doing some prognosticating about the outcome of the midterm elections, which are over a year away. i anticipate we'll do just fine. and i think when all is said on health care reform, the american people are going to be glad that we acted to change an unsustainable system so that more people have coverage. we're bending the cost curve, and we're getting insurance reform so that people don't get dropped because of pre-existing conditions or other issues.

so understand, though, i'm not acting based on short-term political calculations. i'm looking at what's best for the country long-term. if i had been making short-term political calculations, i wouldn't be standing here as president, because nobody calculated that i could win the presidency. >> with respect to immigration reform, i continue to believe that it is also in the long-term interest of the united states. we have a broken immigration system, nobody denies it, and if we continue on the path we're on, we will continue to have tensions with our mexican neighbors, we will continue to have people crossing the borders in a way that is dangerous for them, unfair for those who are applying legally to immigrate. we're going to continue to have employers who are exploiting workers because they're not within a legal system, and so oftentimes, they're receiving less than the minimum wage or

don't have overtime or are being abused in another fashion. that's going to depress u.s. wages. it's causing ongoing tensions inside the united states. it's not fair and it's not right. and we're going to change it. now, i've got a lot of my plate, and it's very important for us to sequence these big initiatives in a way where day don't all just crash at the same time. and what we've said is in the fall, when we come back, we're going to complete health care reform. we still have to act on energy legislation that has passed the house, but the senate, i'm sure, is going to have its own ideas about how it wants to approach it. we still have financial regulatory reform that has to get done, because we don't want a situation in which irresponsible actions in the global financial markets can precipitate another crisis.

that's a pretty big stack of pills. fortunately, what we've been able to do is begin meeting with both democrats and republicans from the house and the senate, secretary napolitano is coordinating these discussions and i would anticipate that before the year is out, we would have draft legislation along with sponsors potentially in the house and the senate who are ready to move this forward. and when we come back next year, that we should be in a position to start acting. now, am i going to be able to snap my fingers and get this done? no. this is going to be difficult, it's going to require bipartisan cooperation. there are going to be demagogues out there who try to suggest that any form of pathway for legalization for those who are already in the united states is unacceptable and those are fights that i would have to have if my poll numbers are at 70 or

if my poll numbers are at 40. that's just the nature of the u.s. immigration debate, but, ultimately, i think the american people want fairness. and we can create a system in which you have strong border security, we have an orderly process for people to come in, but we're also giving an opportunity for those who are already in the united states to be able to achieve a pathway to citizenship so that they don't have to live in the shadows and their children and their grandchildren can have a full participation in the united states. so i'm confident we can get it done. oh, excuse me. i know this wasn't directed at me, but i just want to make one quick point on honduras, because you repeated something that i've heard before. the same critics who say that the united states has not

intervened enough in honduras are the same people who say that we're always intervening and yankees need to get out of latin america. you can't have it both ways. we have been very clear in our belief that president zelaya was removed from office illegally, that it was a coup, and that he should return. we have cooperated with all the international bodies in sending that message. now, you know, if these critics think that it's appropriate for us to suddenly act in ways that in every other context they consider inappropriate, then i think what they indicates is is that maybe there's some hypocrisy involved in their approach to u.s. latin america

relations that certainly is not going to guide my administration policies. [ speaking foreign language ] good day, i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. we'll continue to watch the press conference of the three amigos in guadalajara and come back, of course, when president obama takes another question. but first, let's talk about what just took place there in guadalajara. i'm joined by chuck todd, nbc news white house correspondent, and pat buchanan, of course, msnbc political commentator. first of all, the president just made a little bit of news by suggesting that critics of u.s. policies with honduras are a little bit hypocritical if they say they don't want yankees getting involved in latin america policy, they can't at the same time criticize the united states for not being more

interventionist, although there has been considerable criticism, chuck, that the u.s. has not been strong enough in defending free elections, a freely elected president in honduras, and that is a bad signal to others who might try a military coup. >> well, the problem has been the legal issue. and the fact is, other than blocking him from the country, kicking him out of the country, everything actually was done constitutionally. you can make that case, what happened in honduras. and that is what's put, i think, the u.s. in a box and some others in a box. >> and the fact that he was a leftist and they don't like and he was violating the law. >> no doubt. but had they not kicked him out of the country and just kicked him office, they were following his constitution. >> well, he was wearing his pajamas in the middle of the night. >> that's the world pr problem. >> the bigger questions, immigration and health care. the president said, pat, that some -- some have said that he's got a lot on his plate, he's got energy, got health care. so when asked about immigration, he said, i've got a lot on my plate.

it's important to sequence these initiatives so that they don't crash all at the same time. so clearly he's not taking on immigration reform at this moment. >> you've got health care, cap and trade, i can't see him doing it this year at all. and i don't think he's going to do it next year because i think the democrats are in serious problems right now and that would really aggravate them. >> i don't think you would be silent on that subject? >> i don't think the country would be silent. for him to legalize 12 to 20 million illegal aliens and say they could go to work here, i think it would be a terrible problem for the president of the united states. i just don't think -- i think his people up on capitol hill, nancy pelosi and reid and others say, please, mr. president, don't do it to us. >> i've actually talked to some republicans who want to support the president on this privately who have said, if you don't get it done in '09, don't touch it in '010. and the people who really want to see something done believe what the president just did there, by the way, is he killed

immigration reform, probably until 2013, at the earliest. >> but his own economic advisers, if you put, you know, truth serum on them, they would say that the solution to some of our economic problems is to do something about immigration reform. >> the irony is that this is the time to do it, because actually we're not seeing a flood of immigrants over the border right now, because we have no jobs. >> but it's the higher skilled jobs that is the real problem. a lot of people in the economic community and in wall street are complaining that they cannot find visas for the people that they want -- >> folks from india, folks from asia. >> there's an awful lot of those folks, americans who are unemployed. who are in their mid-40s and things like that who are being moved out so these people can move in. >> now let's talk about health care. a little bit of tape of some of the more august liberals from

the senate. we have what happened to john dingell this weekend, let's watch a little bit of that, also tom harkin in iowa. these are angry people. now, you're going to new hampshire tomorrow. the president is doing a town hall meeting. what do you think is going to happen in portsmouth, new hampshire? >> i've got my hands on one conservative new hampshire group that is recruiting volunteers to show up. they've been using facebook and other news groups to do that and they're trying to get people there. look, new hampshire, arguably, you know, new england invented the town hall meeting or the modern day town hall meeting. these folks now how to do it. so you have this feeling, i wouldn't be surprised if we see a mob scene on the outside, but i wouldn't be surprised if the white house almost hopes they get a confrontation. the president almost wants to insert himself in a way in this debate to be able to say, hey, we need to take this down a notch. i thought what was interesting there, don't let go on notice what the president just said. he almost pushed back. nancy pelosi and steny hoyer did not today in new york city, where they called this stuff un-american. well, that has got republicans

just over the moon angry. and john boehner's put out statements, mitchell mcconnell is saying, you can't call it un-american. you may not like what's going on, don't call it un-american. what did the president basically just say? these are good, he supports the idea of having a vigorous debate. i think that was a slight pushback on pelosi and hoyer. >> i think it would be a disaster for them to continue these tactics of attacking these peoples. at othey are very angry, middle americans and for the president and these people to call them thugs and all these other terms, there's obviously some people that are misbehaving in there that ought not to be, but they call these whole groups and millions of people names like that i think is politically not astute at all. >> well, since there's only one person at this table who has won the new hampshire primary, we'll let you have the last word, pat buchanan, and safe travels up to -- >> i'm looking for the pitch fork. it will be great. you think they'll be coming us, huh?

media could be -- yeah, yeah. here come's pat's brigade. can you give me immunity or something. >> thanks so much. chuck todd, pb pb. coming up next, linda douglass from the white house. plus, in ds the battle for america. the never before told stories from the historic 2008 presidential campaign. we'll have the authors here next. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time. when a tornado tore through holly, colorado, air life denver took to the air... their night-vision goggles keeping them safe on a perilous flight... and powering those precision goggles--- is the only battery air life trusts: duracell. trusted everywhere.

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♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪ ♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ like a wanna-be frat boy trying to get down ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dotom - stat! ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage. as the debate over health care boils over, the white house is launching a new website today called "reality check," their words, aimed at debunking myths about the obama administration's plans, they say. linda douglass, communications director for the office of health care reform joins us now from the white house. linda, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. >> well, it certainly has boiled over. it's been a much hotter debate than perhaps some would have estimated or expected. how do you counter what y'all think are inaccuracies, such as

the big euthanasia debate? >> well, that's a perfect example of a completely false story that was out there, where there was a group of people trying to scare seniors into thinking that there was going to be some sort of effort to get them to end their lives, which was absolutely false and really cruel. so what we did was put information out there to let people know, look, what we're talking about is if you're a senior looking for guidance on how to do a living will or other kinds of questions that you face when you get older, medicare will cover that conversation with a medical professional. we're pushing this information out. we learned during the campaign, with the presidential campaign, that when there are false stories out there, if you put the facts out there, people really do want to learn what the truth is. >> and you got the website up today, with a couple of videos, yourself, christina romer, some of the other experts from the white house, trying to get your side out, but how do you counter this fierce fight out there? this is really viral. when you've got tom harkin in iowa, who could be elected god in iowa, getting screamed at at

a town hall meeting and, you know, congressman dingell in michigan, steve cohn down in memphis. this is tough stuff for these members. >> you know, i think that the country is going to be fed up with this very quickly. august is a time when our elected representatives who are trying to help americans understand how health insurance reform legislation is going to work, it's going to lower costs, it's going to get rid of unfair insurance rules, people in this country want to hear their representatives explain this to them. they want to tell their representatives what's going on in their own lives and people shouting and screaming and insulting everyone and trying to disrupt that civil conversation are not doing any service to their fellow citizens, who really want to have a conversation with their government about how to tackle the health insurance crisis. i think this is going to become an increasingly unpopular effort. the effort to disrupt this conversation. >> okay, linda douglass. well, the president just said at his press conference that it's good to have a healthy debate. perhaps it's a little more healthy than some people in the

white house might have enjoyed. thank you very much, linda. >> thank you. and the battle for america 2008, the story of an extraordinary election, from the departure of hillary clinton's high-profile campaign manager to what drove john mccain to choose sarah palin as his running mate. this new book reveals behind-the-scenes details from the campaign trail, details that we never knew at the time. dan balz and haynes johnson are the co-authors of "the battle for 2008," and join us here now. a terrific book. a great read, great reporting. it's really the best beach read i could think of this summer, if i could ever get to a beach. and as the president said, the whole election, he told you, i think the whole election is a novel, and it really is a novel. first to you, dan, what was most surprising as you were covering this extraordinary campaign? >> andrea, i think the most interesting part of this was to understand how difficult barack obama had as an early candidate. the stumbles he had, how

frustrated he was. we like to think of him now as somebody who just soared from start to finish through that campaign. and that was not the case at all. he was a very incomplete candidate when he started out and he was unhappy about it and he expressed that to his advisers. they were worried that his disaffection from the campaign trail would kind of lower morale throughout the operation. there was some tough conversations between him and robert gibbs about it, and the second thing we learned is that there was a point in the campaign when he began to say, i'm going to trust my own instincts, i've learned from my mistakes, i'm going to get this message down, and from then on, he became the candidate we saw that won iowa and went on to win the nomination. >> haynes, one of the things you reported that i've never seen anywhere before is this pete ralph memo from 2006 and his chief of staff prepared this memo january 16th, 2006, outlining a campaign strategy, how to position himself. it makes sense for you, obama,

to position yourself in 2006 to run in 2008 if a perfect storm emerges in 2007. rouse believed then that the odds obama would run in 2008 were exceedingly low. he was doing what a good adviser does, which was to consider all contingencies. if making a run in 2008 is at all a possibility, no matter how remote, it makes sense to begin talking and making decisions about what you should be doing below the radar in 2006 to maximize your ability to get in front of this wave, should it emerge and should you and your family decide it is worth riding. six days later, barack obama's on "meet the press" with tim russert. russert asks him, so you will not run for president or vice president in 2008, i will not, obama reports. >> that was fascinating. russert got it right at that point, and obama hasn't made the decision, but they were thinking about it for sure. and obama always wanted to be president. the question was when and how and how. that memo laid out the possibility, below the radar, and that's what they were doing. operating below the radar.

later, when he dwogoes on with again, and we're all loving this, tim asked him, what about -- you told me you're not. and this time, by then there was a great clamor for obama to run and he had to say, we're thinking about it. >> and dan balz, the hillary clinton campaign, the other narrative, one of the other narratives, because we'll get to john mccain in a minute, but far from being the overpowering political machine of legend, you write, the clinton campaign turned out to be a world filled with destructive internal conflicts. a place of tensions and elm nitty. >> these were individuals who were highly talented people, political professionals who had helped elect her to the senate twice, and many of them had been involved in helping bill clinton win the white house twice. but there was something about the internal structure of that campaign that collectively they could not operate effectively. now, you have to say that hillary clinton is partially or significantly responsible for that, because she put the people

in those positions. but when it counted most, they were not performing up to speed. the obama campaign in that crucial period, really from sort of late november until the end of february, outperformed the mighty clinton operation. and only after it was too late did the clinton campaign come together, did she become a really effective candidate. but when it was most important, they had a breakdown. >> and john mccain, haynes, the choice of sarah palin, you write that mccain's search for a running mate had started in the spring with about two dozen names, palin was not a serious candidate, one person said she was not even on the initial list, one person said she was barely. it was only later in the summer when the campaign team became alarmed at obama's lead among women that she was added to the list of potential contenders. >> just a year ago, we were about to go to denver, democrats were having their convention, obama was rising in the polls. it looked like he was going to win and the mccain people surely

thought they were going to lose and they had a dramatic problem. what do we do? how do we break open? how do we cut into this lead and so forth? and that's when they began looking at sarah palin, whom nobody in the country -- very few people in the country -- knew about. the republican base did, and they chose someone to shake it up, radically change it, attract women that were defective from hillary, they thought, they hoped. and that's what happened, and the rest history. >> and john mccain was leading towards joe lieberman, and they needed something to get him off -- >> something dramatic, something to really shake up the campaign. and it worked for a couple of weeks. >> they were convinced ultimately that picking joe lieberman would blow up the republican convention and they just couldn't do it. then the fallback strategy is, how can we shake up the whole campaign, and that turns into palin. >> let me share with you something that just happened today while you were coming over here. in the congo, hillary clinton, because you did such deep reporting on her in the campaign, she was asked by a

student about a trade deal between china and congo. now, the translator got it wrong. the student was really asking about barack obama. the translator, though, got it wrong and asked hillary what her husband thought about the trade deal. what mr. clinton thought. clinton bristles and responds, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state, i am. you ask my opinion, i will tell you my opinion. i'm not going to channel my husband. so for all the, you know, the happy talk last week while i was in nairobi with hillary clinton and she was praising her husband's work in pyongyang, when asked specifically, she thought, you know, incorrectly because of the translator, about her husband, not happy. >> a reminder of that debate in south carolina where barack obama raised and said, she said, well, i didn't bring up bill clinton, and he said, well, you -- i don't t know who i'm running against sometimes, i feel i'm running against both of

you. >> and indeed he did. that's another reason why the drama last week was so extraordinary, seeing bill clinton doing an envoy. >> and why this is such a great story to try to tell. you've got to clintons and the kennedys, you've got this, you've got that, you've got obama, and bill and hillary. >> that's why this is such a great story, "the battle for america 2008," i was reading it on the plane coming home. it's just terrific. thanks so much. dan balz, haynes johnson. and when we come back, is the taliban now gaining the upper hand in afghanistan. that next on "andrea mitchell reports," only on msnbc. - ( rock music playing ) - ♪ oh! what do you say to a spin around the color wheel? - to paint with primer already mixed in? - ♪ yeah yeah yeah... - test samples instead of can commitments? - ♪ whoo! - what do you say we dip into our wallets less... - ♪ are you feeling it? - ...and grab ahold of the latest tools out there... - ♪ oh! ...so we can quit all that messing around with extra steps - and get busy turning our doing dials up a notch? - ♪ whoo! ♪ oh! more saving. more doing.

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what is clear is that the taliban are launching complex attacks and are more organized than they used to be. and for the first time, they used to be. and "the new york times" reports that the u.s. is targeting drug lords suspected drug lords. barry mckafr i hai micmccaffrey now. there is protesting too much coming out of the pentagon and the white house today about what "the wall street journal" quoted general krit ol as saying. is the taliban getting the upper hand? and what is the end game in afghanistan? >> well, it didn't sound like stan mccrystal. he is the most implacable fighter to come out of this war so far. andrea, my analogy might be this is a nine-inning ball game and we're at the top of the second inning. it's hard to imagine that in the short run the taliban can in any way successfully confront nato

u.s. combat forces. the marines down south, army troops all over the country, this is not going to happen. the question is, what's going to happen when karzai is re-elected? can we put together an operative political state with the economy functioning with jobs? can we deal with the situation in pakistan which is perilous at best? that's really the question. they're longer term. >> and how long is the longer term? >> i've been saying all along this is a prehistoric society. they've got their terrific businessmen. they're great soldiers. karzai and his tech know democrats are pretty solid people. they have to build a nation. this is a 10 to 25-year challenge. it's probably worth doing if we get the american people to understand it and sign up for it. >> and just briefly, what about going after the drug lords? >> well, again, you know, you look at the economics of the matter.

there are no jobs. the taliban are paying young men $10 a day to fight and harvest opium. this is arguably the better part of a $4 billion profit. it's 95% of the world's heroin. we simply have to confront that issue or we will in the end fail in our national purpose. >> barry mccaffrey, thank you so much. good to see you again, sir. and what political story will be making headlines in the next 24 hours? that next on msnbc, the place for politics. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar, but i've still got room for the internet.

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a former congresswoman from new york joins me now. susan, new hampshire? town hall? >> yes. interesting. interesting. i went to new hampshire. i stomped for president bush 41. this is going to be an interesting test for the president. obviously, the media will be surrounding him. it does give him an opportunity to refocus the debate. hopefully they'll be constructive debates. because i think as republicans and as people who are concerned out there, there's an argument to be made about shifting what is it, the one sixth of our economy for 13% of the american public who doesn't have health care. and the rest who have some problems with it. but who don't know exactly what the government is suggesting. this is his chance to make it clear what the government is suggesting, how much it's going to cost and most importantly,

less emphasis on cost but what is it going to mean you to and your health care delivery system for your family? >> and new hampshire knows how to do town hall meetings. >> they sure do. >> and i'd like to take a moment to mention the departure of ann wexler. she died on friday. she gave bill clinton his first job in politics, sending him off to oregon taxes for george mcgovern. he brought along his girlfriend, hillary. ann was the highest ranking woman in the carter white house after reagan's election, wexler created the first lobbying firm started by a woman. she was smart. she was tough. she was warm. she was loving and we're going to miss her. i'm andrea mitch until washington. contessa brewer picks up our coverage next on msnbc, the place for politics. the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®.

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