they don't have any intention of fixing health care in this country. they just want to destroy what's going on right now. they're out there, if you read the messages, their job is to shout down, disrupt, rock and roll, they got every word, i mean you're seeing the pictures, this is all planned behavior to scream and yell. they want to bring it dwoon. isn't that the goal of most of the people coming to these meetings? >> i don't know, and that's the problem. these used to be really important journalistic exercises, going to the town hall meetings in august. you did get a feeling of what congressmen and women are hearing in their districts. how much of this is manufactured and how much of it is authentic. it's hard for lawmakers to tell. because they're going home and trying to spend a month. they're looking at the same polls we are and trying to figure out where exactly are our constituents. and i don't think that they know. and now basically, i think the media rewards the absurd. so people who can shout down, who can scream at a congressman or do something to disrupt, they know people can get on youtube,

and therefore, they can make a big show of it and there's a huge incentive to do that. and now you see democrats fighting back, to do the same thing to counter-act that. >> this is the newest, hottest summer reality show for a lot of political insiders to watch. what's interesting is that i think the white house and its organizing arm, the dnc and organizing for america, they were a little slow to realize this, that their organizers at their core, they're going to try to pack the halls themselves, they're sending out emails and organizing. i think the picture will be interesting to see the next round of town halls, if they find that they cannot pack the room before the other side does. that's the thing to watch. >> there's a lot of organizing going on out there, involved with the people that did swift-boating against john kerry. and a lot of money involved in the health care industry. one man raising $20 million for spending in this industry. clearly there's a lot of grassroots as well. thank you, jim vandehei. the very successful plitco.

>> and lynn sweet. from the "chicago sun-times." right now, it's time for the ed show, with ed schultz. >> i'm ed schultz. this is "the ed show." good evening, americans, live from 30 rock in new york, it's "the ed show" on msnbc, good to be back after a week's vacation. tonight, it's an uprising, angry old white folks are storming into town halls all across america, spewing lies about health care reform. let me sed the record straight early on, these folks, think they're dumber than joe the plumber. and i'll tell you what i think we ought to do about combatting their misguided passionth and i'll go head to head with one of their leaders. pack in a few moments.

thank god, everybody isn't drinking the cool-aid, in portland, oregon, man, was the crowd fired up for what, you got it, single-payer. and while millions of you are struggling to pay and scrape by and get your health care bills paid for, the ceo of united health care, this guy is raking in millions of dollars. award-winning film-maker will be joining me to blow the top off this story. and she never fails us -- sarah, barracuda palin. she strikes again. first she screams at us, in the media, leave her kids alone and she blabs on facebook about her baby's medical problems. sarah, you can't have it both ways. she's behind a lot of misinformation, we'll talk about it tonight. governor sanford brags about getting discount haircuts, although the people of south carolina ought to know it cost them a grand for the 'do he's sporting right now. plus, get your cell phones out, we've got another text survey coming up.

we want to be part of that. all of it tonight on "the ed show" and a great panel coming up. but first, tonight's op-ed. a guy can't even take a couple of days off to go fishing. i missed a lot of stuff. obama wants a death squad? whew. and let's see, we've got fights breaking out in town hall meetings, that's my kind of style. and, i thought sarah palin quit. come on, what's going on here? this stuff is out of control. seriously, i spoke to senator tom harkin, the senator of the chairman of the health committee. and he told me he had people come up to him at town hall meetings and ask, why is nancy pelosi and harry reid trying to kill them? folks, these people are over the top. and they're not grasping the situation. they are easily led. and it's scary. they're being fed lies by right-wing radio. they're being fed lies by right-wing talkers on television and they're playing the fear card big-time. and they're basically depending on these people to go out and do

their dirty work. now this is all about a massive misinformation campaign. and the president spoke to it this weekend. >> so let me explain what reform will mean for you. and let me start by dispelling the outlandish rumors that reform will promote euthanasia or cut medicaid or bring about a government takeover of health care. that's simply not true. >> here's where it's coming from. sarah palin. she's playing around with her facebook account on friday and put this garbage up on her site. the america i know and love is not the one which my parents or my baby with down syndrome will have to stand in front of the obama's death panel, so the bureaucrats can decide based on the subjective judgment of their level of productivity in society whether they are worthy of health care. such a system is downright evil. sarah, what's, she is referring to here, folks, is the senate health committee bill.

you might want to read this. if you're not going to read the whole bill, folks, you might want to read pages 425-430. that deal with end of life issues, a living will and power of attorney. now bill calls for the doctor to simply be reimbursed for his consultation with the family. that's it. now, somehow, the right wing has twisted this, and they've turned it into a death panel, a death squad? and the obama people want to deny you coverage? this is nuts. now, senator harkin told me today, that not one republican -- not one republican in his committee objected to this clause. but now, this is how it's showing up in town hall meetings. the lies are having an effect. the disruptions, i think are well orchestrated by the right wing and they're funded by the industry. and folks, they're not a microcosm of what people are talking about across america. i started my vacation in portland, oregon, with a town hall meeting. the place was packed and the folks were just hammering about

single payer. mr. president, you have the people behind you. i've done enough of these to know, that there's a fraction of americans out there, who are you know, the old right wing, they're playing on the old angry white uneducated, misinformed americans to go out there and carry the torch of the republican party right now to shake it up to defeat. and this is why they use the word "failure," this is why they're trying to generate it. okay, folks, get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think -- can president obama overcome the right-wing lies about health care reform? text a for yes, and b for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. now joining me now, is max pappas, the vice president for public policy of freedom works. freedom works is the health care industry, a group led by former congressman, dick armey, and is behind the destructions of all of these town hall meetings. max, good to have you.

why is it that all of these guys named max are screwing up health care reform in this country? no offense. mr. pappas, are you purposely having people go out and tell lies in front of the cameras to try to derail raelt care reform in this country? >> no, absolutely not. we've been a grassroots organization for 25 years. and every recess we tell our members where the town halls are and we encourage them to go and participate. and we did that this recess, too. >> okay, so the people who came up to senator harkin today, that said that nancy pelosi and harry reid want to kill them, your organization doesn't have anything to do with encouraging these people to show up at these town hall meetings, correct? >> i don't know who those people are in particular. we have numbers in every single state. so it's hard to say. >> but you have to take some responsibility. because your organization is telling these folks -- with bullet points, with instructions on what to say when they show up at these meetings, correct? >> we an august recess, call to action for our members, where we

describe the situation to them. and we explain what's going on in congress. and some of them are concerned that of the four bills that have passed out of committee, according to the cbo, none of them do any of the things that president obama is claim that they do. which is decrease costs or cover enough people. >> but isn't this manufactured, mr. pappas? you're supplying information to these people, of what to say when they go to these town hall meetings. you're handing them -- here, go say this. is that not happening? >> we do that every single recess. >> okay. >> so there's a big difference -- what we're hearing from our members this recess is wow, we can't believe how many other people are turning up and supporting our side. it's never like that. our same guys are going, finding a lot more backing. it can be called manufactured all you want. but eventually the polls are winning out. and you see the floor fr this is going down every day. >> we did have a poll back in november and the president's been very clear about what he wants. the point i'm trying to make here and clarify, is that you are coaching, you are

instructing americans who aren't quite sure about what health care reform is going to be like in this country, to go out and purposely disrupt these meetings? >> no, that's not accurate at all. we do the same thing every recess, where we give them information -- >> wait a minute, respectfully. the videotape that we have been seeing, that's playing on this network, is unlike anything we have seen at any other time, in contemporary time when it comes to public interaction with elected officials. now, is your group coaching these folks to go up and purposely disrupt what's going on in these town hall meetings? yes or no? >> and it's funny that you show the tampa town hall, because the guy that you just showed was on our side, against the government takeover of health care. and he was attacked by union members, you can google it it's tampa town hall. >> now, mr. pappas, do you really believe, that the government is going to take over? that there will be no private

health insurance companies at all out there? do you, in your heart believe that there will be a government takeover? >> i just watched the video from president obama in front of the seiu, who said he doesn't see it happening immediately if we introduce the public 0 option. but ten, 15 years down the road, he sees the public option taking over for private insurance, those are the president's words himself, you can look it up. >> but if the people want this, is it not democracy? >> sure, but a lot more people turning out at the town hall meetings, a lot more on our side. >> not a lot more. it depends on the ones you've been going to. >> except for the one in virginia, where the president had all the lobbyists and ties show up and support his side. >> okay. so you actually believe that there is a movement in this country, that is so anti-health care reform, that we're going to basically say the same, and your goal is to kill this reform bill? >> no, that's the same straw man

president obama keeps setting up. it's not either no reform or what the president is talking about. we've been calling for reform for over a decade. >> new york city you haven't. >> look at our website. >> you haven't been calling for reform. you had the white house, the house and the senate respectfully, mr. pappas, you didn't do a damn thing when you had power. all you did was tell us to go get a health care savings account and you gave a tax cut to the top 2%. great to have you with us tonight. my next guest has faced angry crowds at town halls in detroit. joining me now is the dean of the democratic congress and that is mr. john dingle. mr. dingle, good to have you with us tonight. >> it's a pleasure to be with you. good evening. >> have you seen orchestrated town halls like this, in the, in your career at any time? does this remind you of the '60s at all? >> well, the last time i had to confront something like this was when i voted for the civil rights bill and my opponent

voted against it. at that time, we had a lot of klu klux klan folks and white spr supremicists and folks in white sheets running around, causing trouble. >> well, this is serious stuff is what i'm hearing from you tonight, right congressman? >> well, i've faced this twice. and ed, there's something very interesting. you talked about this thing being stimulated. the hard fact is, it is. i have here before me, this thing entitled "right principles." it comes from an organization, it was passed out at the meetings we had. we had two, we had so many that we couldn't accommodate them all at the first meeting, so we had a second one the same night. it tells them what to do, how to do it and why. here's some of the things they say. our objective was to pack the hall with as many people ready to challenge the congressman, to put him on the defensive. they go on and say, questions

would put the rep on the defensive. and then the next page, they say, meet and deploy. the team would meet outside the hall. with voting record and questions distributed. the team would be also advised to spread out inside the hall. but you try to get seats in the front half. >> so congressman -- congressman, let me ask you, how do you go back to washington, with a true picture of what the people want, if this is what you're facing in town halls in your district? >> well, ed, first of all, i know my district, i've served it for better than 50 years. and i know the people and i know what they care about. so i'm in a little different position than most members of the congress. and -- >> okay. you're, you have the experience and you've been around and you know your district. do you think this kind of activity will intimidate some democrats who are going to have to make some tough decisions on health care reform? what impact do you think this will have? >> well, i wouldn't be at all

surprised, ed, but what that's the purpose. and it may very well do so. i'm going to tell you something, though. and that is, stimulated behavior of this kind is very bad for a lot of reasons. first of all, it isn't just that it makes life hard for members of congress. but it's really worse, because it denies the overwhelming majority of the people at these meetings, who really don't agree with this kind of behavior, and who really want to hear and understand, it denies them the right to talk to their congressmen to ask questions, to tell them their thinking and for the congressman to explain what he's doing and to learn what the people want. >> it's orchestrated disruption, no question about it. congress bhan, great to have you with us tonight. congressman dingell, i appreciate your time. >> you bet. >> for more, let me bring in roger simon, chief political columnist for "politico."

roger, does this make this tougher for the president? i know he's doing four town hall meetings this week, he's going to montana. but what's your position this morning in the wake of all this? >> i think the president has the guts and the sense to get his health care plan through. i think he's willing to compromise with congress about it. i don't think he's willing to compromise with heem who stand up and shout at town hall meetings. who are unpleasant, unfair and it's counter productive. if you've ever been at a town hall meeting or a speech or any kind of a meeting where somebody just stands up and starts yelling, that doesn't make you like that person or doesn't convince you of that person's argument. you hate it and you want it to stop. it doesn't do any good. >> do you think it might actually ignite the left grassroots to really get behind the president? it might be a counter-effect here? >> i think there will be a counter-effect. i think it actually might put a little steel in the spine of some congresspeople who are wavering on it.

people don't like to stand there and get yelled at by organized hooligans. it doesn't make them feel good. they can read polls, they know how the people feel. they know how to persuade people. and i don't think they're going to be persuaded to vote against health care because they'll get shouted at. >> what about the rhetoric that sarah palin writes about in her facebook, about obama wanting a death panel. it's almost unbelievable that she would go this far. >> it's over the top and beneath contem contempt. putting aside the fact that it's a lie and simply not true on the facts, you have to wonder, where sarah palin thinks she's living now? insurance companies decide every day what medical procedures you will have. not your doctor. doctors tell you what you need. the insurance companies tell you what they will pay for. they will tell you what drugs they will pay for. they tell you everything about your medical care that they will pay for. this is what goes on now.

this is the, you can't say that we're going to have death panels in the future -- what do you think the status quo is? >> yeah. and finally, is there a pr black eye that the republican party could walk away with because of all this? we're in the image business. i mean, you get in front of cameras, you do things, you create an impression. i mean, is this the republican party, the bowels of the party, actually at work? >> this is the danger for the republican party, the increasing danger. that they get categorized and reduced to just a, a hard-core, hard right-wing mob. and that that's their support, and the support comes from the extremes. and yes, they can win a congressional seat here and there. but they no longer can be a national party. this is what they're risking here. >> roger simon, "politico" always great to have you on. thank you so much for your insight. coming up, it's getting ugly in pennsylvania, folks,

so-called democrat senator, arlen spector is on the warpath against joe sestek. said he's willing to go toe to toe with him. well, senator, i hope you've got your steel tips on, because congressman sestak has a plan to knock your socks off in the primary, it's going to be a dandy. he joins me next here on "the ed show." on msnbc. lcium. he recommended citracal. it's a different kind of calcium. calcium citrate. with vitamin d... for unsurpassed absorption, to nourish your bones.

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welcome back to the "the ed show," pennsylvania congressman joe sestek, is running for senate, his first mission is taking on born-again democrat arlen spector in the primaryth and spector is already taking some swipes at his opponent. check it out. >> when congressman sestak resorts to throw stones, he lives in a big glass house. the guy has the worst voting record in congress from the pennsylvania delegation, he's just 104 votes this year. if he was still in the service, he would be court-martialed. he would be awol. if the congressman wants to go negative, i'm prepared to battle him toe to toe. >> well, let's see what the congressman from pennsylvania has to say about all of that, joe sestek joins us here on "the ed show." congressman, what's your response to senator arlen spector coming out so aggressively. what do you think, joe? >> well, ed, i'm very proud of

my 31 years in the u.s. military and i think arlen's probably proud of his time in the military back in the early '50s. but i don't agree that you need to make personal types of statements about issues that we should be discussing. for example -- >> he says you're awol. he says you've missed more votes than anybody else. is that true? >> well i don't know. but i do know this -- i'm extremely proud of my 93% voting record. i'm extremely proud that we keep our office open for 2 1/2 years, seven days a week. and have handled three times the constituency cases than any other congressional service. i'm he very proud, i'm had more bills passed this year than arlen specter and i'm very proud that i've co-sponsored and sponsored more pieces of legislation than any other member of the pennsylvania delegation. so i'm very proud of working hard. but i've got to tell you one vote, ed, that we've golf to have missed is vote that's voted

with president bush four out of five teams, sending jobs overseas and tax cuts to the rich. that's why i'm working so hard, to re place that vote. >> we've tried to nail down senator specter on exactly where he is on a public option, so far, this is what we've got. >> i believe that a public option would be very helpful. but it is true, that there are many who don't agree with that. >> if the senate passed a bill without a public option, could it come back in compromise negotiations? or would that kill it? >> i think we ought to fully explore the public option, to see if we could make it work out. >> senator, not you, joe, but senator specter, may i say, you're either for it or against it you want a public option or you don't. i want to get you specifically on the record, congressman, are you for or against an exchange? because in congress, you have 21 different options, as a plan, as a congressional member. this exchange, this public option, includes 21 different

plans. that you can choose from. do you want the american people to have that, joe? >> they have to have it. here in the philadelphia region where i'm sitting, 40% of pennsylvanians live and one company, ed, has 70% of all the private health care plans, and that's a monopoly. so without a public health care plan option, you cannot get fair competition. now, that public health care plan option, is a choice. and it's subsidized by the premiums and co-pays of those in it but you're not paying $23 million to the ceo to run that. and then you get fair competition. we got to have it. whatever you want to call it, we have to have it to have our premiums go down. and that's the objective. the pocketbook of those who have health care now, they will pay less. as we also bring in the uninsured, who we're paying for today, $400, as they go to the emergency room. let's get them covered and we'll

eventually pay less as they get preventive care. ed, this is the issue that he should be out there with me, throughout pennsylvania. arguing about why people are hurting, with no action, the past 15 years, since he helped, he helped bob dole in the clinton health care plan. >> finally, congressman, did you miss 104 votes? >> yes. and -- >> okay. >> but 93% voting record. but i would -- go ahead. >> well, i'm out of time. unfortunately. joe, we're going to have you back, congressman sestak. thank you so much, i love your spirit and your fire on this, thanks so much. >> glad to be here. >> we should point out that the day i went on vacation, in the house, nancy pelosi guaranteed those who were supporting single-payer, that she will bring it up for debate before anything comes out of the house. so can we say that single-payer is still alive? i guess we'd have to legislatively. next on "the ed show," senator

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straight-talking express just got another flat tire. john mccain, the senator from arizona has let his misguided passion get in the way of facts when it comes to health care reform. joining the mobs of the old angry white folks i mentioned earlier. mr. bipartisanship is whining that the senate republicans didn't have a hand at all in helping craft the bill. check this out. >> unfortunately, there was no input by republicans in the writing of the bill. in the health committee, it wassal a democrat proposal. that's not the way you want to begin if you're really interested in true bipartisan result. maybe we can go back and all of us -- and i'd be glad to play a role. >> that went unchallenged. the war-monger has now become the fear-monger on health care. if mr. country first would have just actually read the bill, he would see that there were over 160 republican amendments on the legislation. that the committee passed.

for old john mccain to flat-out lie about this bill is seriously, angry, uneducated, uninformed and misguided psycho-talk. coming up, caribou barbie is back at it, and it's having an effect on health care debate in this country. what kills me is that people are actually believing her despicable lies and i'll tell you what i think we can do to combat all of that nonsense. plus the love gov, he got a new hairdo that would make john edwards blush. we'll get into the hairy details letter on "the ed show." stay with us. [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all gettg a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you.

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president obama and progressives in congress are facing some pretty fierce competition to their health care reform efforts. they're up against republicans, blue dogs and those right wipgers who have been disrupting

town hall meetings across america. but they also have to contend with insurance ceos who are lobbying hard against any kind of reform. the ceos are maintaining wildly extravagant lifestyles by denying patients care. the production company, brave new films, just put out a new film exposing one of those guys, like united health care group's steven hemsley. >> my name is steve hemsley and i'm the president and chief executive of the united health group. our mission at united health group is to help people lead healthier lives. >> his salary, $3.2 million. >> the incredible gross profits of the private health insurance industry that is at the core of the problem. >> two years ago, i think the president of the united health care made so much money that one in every $700 that was spent in health care in this country

wrent to pay him. >> insurance that these insurance companies are making, profits -- >> that was your favorite talk show host, ed. i would like to remind you of the outcry from the congress and americans, when the auto industry executives, remember when they flew those corporate jets into washington, when they were looking for a bailout? the media was stuck on that story for two weeks. the trips cost about $20,000. now steven hemsley makes $102,000 an hour. you want to know where your premiums are going? where's the outcry? where's the coverage on that if joining me is political activist and director of brave new films, mr. robert greenwall. robert, great to have you back with us tonight. >> thank you. >> what motivated you to do this story and go after the executives? >> greed, obscenity, anger and

real fury among my colleagues at brave new films, who are focused on the fact that this is a story, ed, that's not being told. it's a fundamental issue. and i really think that our country is facing one of those critical moments, where we look in the mirror and decide who we are and who we are not. now these men, hemsly, is making this money by literally, not figuratively, taking it out of your pocket, and putting it into his mansion. i don't know how he sleeps at night, in any one of his eight or nine or ten or 12 bedrooms, knowing they're being paid for by denying care to you, being denied care to your family, and to your children. that's obscene, and we're proud to be able to bring this to people's attention. and say -- enough is enough. we're mad as hell. >> now your documentary, basically explains the horror stories that americans are going through. here's one example of what is in your short documentary, dealing

with the health insurance companies. here it is. >> he was six months old. we were at the pediatrician, and he mentioned that dylan would probably need the helmet to correct the plasiocephaly. if he didn't wear this helmet, he could potentially have issues eating. two months into the treatment we got the denial letter from the united health care saying they weren't going to cover it. they viewed the helmet as cosmetic. >> mr. greenwald, are you basically saying here that that child and many other americans could be covered, if they weren't taking us to the cleaners in the front office and using the example of the ceo? is that where you're coming from? >> look, there's no question about it. think of it, if the fire department or the police department were a for-profit entity. and every time they went to a buyer or arrested somebody, they were profiting from it. only here it's exactly the

opposite. every single time they deny you, every single time they cut off your insurance, and every single time you say, claim rejected, it's going into steven hemsly's pocket to build a bigger and more obscene mansion. >> well, let's talk about his pocket. in 2008, these are the kind of numbers he had. his compensation was $3.2 million. his unexercised stock options were $744 million. and in 2009, this year, the guy's looking at $4 million a week in gross pay, that's $819,000 a day, that equates to just over $102,000 every hour. do you think, based on your experience of documentaries, that this kind of testimony, and these kind of numbers will get the attention of those in the congress to realize that we absolutely have to have some kind of regulation? >> well, we're counting on people like you, ed, and your audience to spread the word. if you go to sick for-profit, you'll see the video and then

send it around, send it to your congressman, send it to your church, send it to voters, send it to your family. and send it to people who may be disagreeing with us. but when they see this video, i believe it can bring many people together in saying, enough is enough. >> it's not the free market, you're not willing to say this is just how the free market works? >> no, this is the opposite of the free market. this is a manipulated market, controlled by a few greedy profiteers who are literally making the money off of the backs of sick people. taking it away from them and saying, you can't have a doctor, you can't get that treatment, i need a bigger mansion. >> mr. greenwald, always a pleasure, great work, great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. >> thanks, ed, for your inspiration on this. >> let's bring in our panel, nancy giles, writer and commentator. sam styles, with the wp wp and nationally syndicated radio talk show host, michael medved. now i talked about the media

coverage and the outcry. how in the world could the car executives take those jets to washington, d.c. and testify. ed, that costs $20,000 in gas to run those things. folks, these numbers are staggering. who can justify -- even on my job, $102,000 an hour? and we don't need reform? >> and they're denying care to people who pay for it. >> help me out with this one. >> no, there's no justification for it at all. this is a ponzi scheme. people should be as outraged by this as they were by bernard madoff. it's the same thing, you're paying into a system that's not payingor or treating you fairly. and i think that every town hall meeting should start with this kind of information and start with a personal story of a person who is suffering because of their health care insurance. we've got to make the stories personal and it's too much money for not enough cause. >> i've got to tell you, think this is actually why your side, according to all the polls and

just listening to people, is losing this argumentth and i'll tell you why. because the big concern for most americans is preserving their own insurance. 85% of the country has insurance. 77% of those people like their insurance. and look, if you request go ahead and put mr. hemsly in jail, and it isn't going to insure a single other person. >> but michael -- >> the thing that people are asking for, ed, is who is going to pay the bill if you're going to insure 40 billion new people. >> what i want to do is refuel the bush tax cuts. i'll answer that for you, michael. >> and pay more -- >> that's the way it is. let me get back to this. we've talked about this before. you're saying that 85% of the american people are happy with their coverage. wait a minute, those are the people who have the coverage. we're talking about 50 million people that don't have anything. and 82 million people who have had to go without it at some time or another in the past two years. you say this is attacking the free market and not gouging the consumer, am i hearing that

right, michael? >> i'm not saying it's not attacking the free market, i'm saying it is attacking on people where they live. most americans get their insurance from work right now. one of the things that the president and people understand this. the president is not telling the truth on this. when he says if you're happy with your insurance, you'll be able to keep it. i had a caller on my radio show today, a small businessman. and he supports the president. and he said, one of the reasons he likes the health care reform is because he'll be able to drop insurance for his employees and put them in the government plan. >> michael, that's misinformation. the point here is, the president has made it very clear, if you like what you have, from the radio networks, i don't know what your gig is, can you keep it, my friend. it's not government-operated. no one's going to mandate anything to you on that. >> however, if you make it to pay for your employer -- in other words, what this gentleman was saying to me, and it's absolutely true. under the plan, that are coming through the house of representatives, it will save money. big money, for small businesspeople to drop insurance, put the people on the government plan.

and then what they pay into the government is much less than they were paying to insure their employees. >> but they don't have to, if they like it, they can keep it. sam stein, what's the tightrope that the president walks right now with all the town hall meetings taking place and there's an image, an outcry and a push-back, that any kind of reform isn't good reform. what do you think? >> first of all, welcome back. and secondly, you deserve the $102,000 an hour salary. >> why, just because i have you on all the time? >> i don't know what they're paying you for that. one thing that i was in the white house today, at a briefing. and they're very acutely aware that there is a tightrope that's being walked. they don't necessarily like the idea that they're getting heckled or that the democratic lawmakers are getting heckled. at the same time, there is a sense that, it's not the worst thing in the world to happen. there is division within the democratic caucus over what the proper route to reform is. and as long as the attention is being paid to people like sarah palin, talking about death squads and euthanasia, then the

attention is not being paid to the frictions within the democratic party. one of the things that robert greenwald sz video is exactly what democrats are trying to do, which is set up the enemy, you know, there hasn't been an enemy for the democratic party to attack in the whole health care debate. they're switching it to health insurance reform. talking about protection for consumers. this is a type of messaging that would work. they know that it's going to go. >> and sam, it's real stuff. i want to point out at the town hall meetings, these aren't young people. the 20-somethings and the 30-somethings and the 40-somethings, they're not showing up. these are all -- watching the other channel, getting all nervous about where this is all going. the irony of this is, the very people, the president is trying to help -- are the people that are showing up taking the bullet points and being -- >> exactly. >> it just amazes me. all right, stick around, we've got more coming up with this panel, stay with us. and stick around, because it's moving day down at the governor's mansion down in south carolina. no, he's not moving in his latin lover, but his better half is

cutting and running, that's for sure. good for her. everything that we learn about this shady character -- get this, he was using the state plane for personal use. detail on that, when we come back here on "the ed show." wow, is this... fiber one honey clusters? yes. but it can't have... can't have about half a day's worth of fiber? i assure you it does. honey, and brown sugar. no madam, i don't have esp. (announcer) fiber one. cardboard no. delicious yes.

you still got time to tell me what you think, can president obama overcome the right-wing lies about health care? the results are coming up on our text poll. and our live panel will weigh in on sarah palin's death panel comment coming up. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the

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i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills. just 2 aleve can last all day. perfect. choose aleve and you can be taking four times... fewer pills than extra strength tylenol. just 2 aleve have the strength to relieve arthritis pain all day. it's time for the south carolina governor to go, buddy, go. we just learned from the chairman of the south carolina legislative committee investigating sanford's international trips, he now says that the governor broke state law. which requires using the cheapest travel possible. now this kind of violation could get him impeached.

honky-tonks going to get you every time, folks. it's not only the travels where he was going that got him in trouble, there's some other stuff. it turns out that the taxpayers footed the $1200 it cost to fly him to myrtle beach in columbia, in a state plane -- to get a haircut. that's right, the "associated press" reports he charged taxpayers for the trips to hair and dentist appointments, his son's football games, vacations and parties held by political donors. what is happening with this? joining me now is south carolina state rep, todd rutherford. mr. rutherford, if he broke the state law, what does that mean at this hour? >> certainly it means there are grounds for impeachment, should the legislature decide to do so, apparently now there are grounds for impeachment. and i bet you, if we keep on digging, we'll find more. here's guy who didn't want to take stimulus money from obama, and yet the schools are failing and we're paying $1200 to get a

$10 haircut he could have gotten in myrtle beach. >> doesn't it say something about oversight in state government in the state of south carolina that the governor is allowed to get away with this? there just has not been a full accounting what he's using with the state airplane. >> you know, ed, it goes way beyond that. here's guy that makes state employees write on both sides of post-it notes, he made state employees room together and yet he was using a state airplane to watch his son play football. we understand his busy schedule. but certainly this man who stood up and told state employees and told teachers they were going 0 lose their jobs because he did not want to take stimulus money. shouldn't have been flying the state airplane the way he did or flying to argentina. >> so, senator, will you be leading the charge and stand up and say, i want to impeach this guy? >> yes, i've requested that he resign and i think senator thomas said we're going to look into impeaching him.

if not, i certainly will. maybe this guy works for health care or something. >> if you've got somebody who is looking into this on the legislative committee and comes up and makes the bold statement and says, look, this guy broke the law. isn't it your obligation as a lawmaker, to make sure that this guy's impeached and run out of office, because he broke the law. doesn't the governor have to answer for this? this goes beyond any girlfriend. this is how he manages his office. what do you think? >> absolutely. and it also goes beyond impeachment. because as you said, he did break the law, and south carolina law enforcement division does need to take another look at it to see, did he, in fact, as we are saying, break the law. if so, he is subject to be arrested and put in jail for this, not just impeached. so it goes further than just being impeached and further than just looking into it as a legislative authority. the criminal authority needs to take a look at it. >> the criminal authority needs to take a look at it. >> that's what happens. >> if he were another state employee, he would go to jail.

>> mr. rutherford, great to have you with us on "the ed show." thank you. >> next up, i want to know why every time sarah palin makes a statement about what people should be doing or not doing, she turns around and breaks her own rules? we'll talk about that with our panel next on "the ed show." stay with us. ( conversation ) garth, you're up. hold on, i'm at capilone.com picking a photo... for my credit card. here's one from my prom. oh, what memories. how 'bout one from our golf outing? ( shouting ) i know, maybe one of my first-born son. dad, mom says the boys gotta go. personalize your card by uploading... your own photo at capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? ♪ diarrhea, constipation, gas, bloating. that's me!

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welcome back to "the ed show." of course, it came from the mouth of sarah palin, or rather, the facebook page of the quipster. children and old people will have to stand in front of death panels to find out if they're worthy for living. can you believe that? time to bring back our panel. nancy, what do you make of this, on friday, we have sarah palin putting this on her facebook, that the senate health bill, health bill is calling for a death panel. >> death panel, yeah. >> and then of course, today -- >> she had to renege it. every time i hear her say anything, i blame john mccain for making her a national figure. she is cute, she can read a teleprompter well. but she is not invested that much in the factsth and the problem is there are people who really do listen to what she says. and little key phrases like death panel that makes people frightened and makes people think that there's something wrong with the health care re