>> michael medved, death panel, to be or not to be -- what is sarah palin doing? >> well what she's doing is embarrassing herself and hurting the cause. i on the radio today indicated my listeners, that this simply wasn't true. what is true is that health care rationing is a real issue. but the whole notion that somehow, president obama is going to kill granny or kill trig palin, even worse, that's unacceptable and we've got to focus on the real issue, which is paying for this very expensive reform, which the administration is not answered at all. >> they haven't answered, you're right on that, michael, they have not answered how they're going to do it, so i'm going to do it for them. they'll refuel the bush tax cuts and go after guys like you. sam stein, how can the republican party keep a straight face when they are allowing people to take manufactured material, to go in and disrupt this. this is somewhat scorched-earth policy, is it not? >> yeah, it's definitely

scorched-earth policy. i'm gathering that the tactics are to distract attention from an honest debate. i don't know where it's going. i think it will back-fire. >> but isn't sarah palin fueling all of this by doing this kind of stuff? >> oh, yeah. and i actually do applaud all the media folks out there who fact-checked this claim and called what it is, which is outrageous. and it delegitimizes a serious issue. which is end of life consultations, which matter to a lot of people suffering from terrible diseases at the end of their life. why can't we engage in a serious debate on that issue. i don't get why the republican party would want her to be the spokesperson on this issue. >> well apparently the legislative session up in alaska has voted to overturn her veto and they're taking all the stimulus money they can possibly get. nancy, thanks for joining us, sam stein and michael medved. earlier we asked you if president obama can overcome the right-wing lies about health

care reform, here's our results. that's "the ed show." great to be back with you. for more information on "the ed show," go to ed.msnbc.com. "hardball" with chris matthews is next on msnbc. death wish -- let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in boston. leading off tonight, killing it loudly. let's face it. the people who said they're opposed to this provision of health care reform or that one, aren't looking to improve the bill, they're trying to find a way to kill it. they argue against federally-funded abortion or make up stories about government-sponsored euthanasia for old people. but they never say, take this out of the bill and i'm for reform. no, they want this dead, and they want to destroy barack obama in the process. we've got one of the people

organizing those town hall events, and we're going to play "hardball" with him tonight. and check out this startling "wall street journal" headline -- "taliban now winning." according to the top u.s. commander in afghanistan the pentagon pushed back and said the journal misrepresented what the general was saying, but it raises the question, whether the taliban are getting the upper hand, despite president obama's troop build-up and his focus on afghanistan. nbc's richard engel reports from kabul tonight to us. plus bad news keeps piling up for south carolina governor mark sanford. an "associated press" investigation reveals that the two-term republican used a state plane for personal trips to his children's sporting events, for hair and dentist appointments and for political party events. does this put more trouble in that guy's face. plus, a fascinating gallup poll out, showing the states where president obama is most and least popular. it's a fascinating list. we'll yunch the numbers in

tonight's politics fix. and tonight, what did hillary clinton think someone said about bill, her husband, that got her to smack down the questioner in the congo? but first, we begin with the politics of health care debate. u.s. congressman bob english is a republican from south carolina. congressman, what is going on out there in the country right now? why all of these disruptions at meetings like yours? >> well, of course i'm happy for people to come to town meetings. we had a great town meeting the other night, 350 people there. and some were there to express their very strong opposition to the bill. opposition in some cases turned into hostility. and hostility turned into hysteria for a few. so we had pretty wild time. but by and large, it was a good event. >> well let's take a listen to what happened at your event. thank you, congressman. >>

>> who do you think is stirring up all this noise? that's not a discussion, that's not debate we need in this country, that's a screaming fit against you. >> yeah, that turned out to be quite a screaming fit right there. well, i think that you know, it is true, what we have to do is figure out a way to get past the fear here. there are people out there that are selling fear, that trade on fear. and the result is, that there isn't a good discussion. there are a lot of things to discuss in this health care plan. and there are many reasons to be

opposed. in fact, i sent out a press release last week, saying 16 reasons to be opposed to obama care. the top one being that the public option will put private insurance companies out of business, i fear. and the result will be that we end up with a single-payer system. that's a problem with the obama package. that doesn't mean that we need to be hysterical about that. what it it means is we need to have a reasoned debate. these are our objections and now here's what we can do to take a positive alternative to that. i think if we could get past some of the hysteria and get the president to open to dropping the public option, we could actually get to a solution. >> well would you vote for it, if he did? >> if he dropped the public option and if he made it clear that there wouldn't be funding for abortion within the package, then i think what's left is actually something we can work with. >> you're a republican, you're from south carolina, let me ask you a couple of things, so we

get back to substance. i know that's where you want to go. is it good to try to require young people who are healthy, to join into some kind of health insurance, like we did with car drivership. is it good to get everybody in this together, so the young and healthy share the costs of health care with old and unhealthy? is that a good thing? >> yes. individual mandate makes sense, yes, it does. >> what about the idea of subsidizing in some way, health insurance and getting people who have less than average income, but they're not poverty-stricken, to start participating in their own health care by paying something and getting some help in doing so? is that a good idea? in other words get people off their -- >> that makes sense. >> what about the idea of encouraging employer contributions to health care? >> well, what i'd like to do is it may make sense, if you can perpetuate a system of employer-provided insurance. i'd like to break the connection and have a system where we own our own insurance. but as long as we're saddled with an employer-based system,

it makes sense to incentivize employers to provide insurance. >> how about some kind of national clearing house that they advertise on the networks, like priceline, where a person can, without killing themselves, can do a little shopping and get the best deal, the best coverage for their situation? i think that's one of the things they're talking about doing, what do you think about that idea? >> it's a great idea. in fact, john shattuck from arizona, a good republican out there, has a great like that. it basically is a national system of competition among insurance companies. that's a bill that i'm on, it makes a lot of sense. it's an example of something we can work together on to get something done in this congress. >> i can't vote in south carolina, but you got my vote. thank you very much for coming on the show. i love politics and i love politicians who have the guts to do what they have to do. if you're on the political right, fair enough. thank you, sir, congressman bob inglis of south carolina. let's go to tim phillips, the

president of americans for prosperity. who are you, politically? >> i'm a free market conservative. >> are you one of the people that questions the president's legitimacy as president? >> no, absolutely not. >> you're not a birther or anything like that? >> i want to focus on what his policy -- >> let's clarify that, you're not a birther? >> that's correct. >> what about sarah palin, i want to get this, because we've got voices out there, like glenn beck, who is smart guy, but he knows how to stir things up. and sarah palin talking about death panels. let's try to get some civility about this. what do you want, politically out of this health care bill? what would you like to see at the end of the day, if they say at the health care debate? >> first and foremost, we don't want a bill that drives -- >> no, no, i went will not have that conversation with you. what do you want? >> i want to see better choices and more choices for american citizens. not mandates. >> how do we get that? >> well first we can push and expand hsa.

i think they're not the be all end all, but a good starting point for broadening people's choices and giving them a better opportunity to control their own destiny on the health care front. and i think we ought to allow people to choose coverage from across state lines. the current system is not good. it locks you in. >> who's involved in the debate on capitol hill that's pushing what you want? >> congressman ryan from wisconsin has a good bill. that's a starting point. senator demett in the senate we've looked at his legislation. we think both of those legislations are good pieces for starting points of discussion. >> let's talk about some of the things in the president's bill and you give me your critique. whatever you think of the "new york times," they did an analysis, i want your judgment on this. encourage people, mandate people when they reach young adulthood to get involved in health insurance. you can't be waiting around until you're 45 years old and get a disease to buy health insurance. do you like the idea of requiring people to have health insurance at an early age?

>> i do not. i'm opposed to that. >> they mandate you buy, you get a driver's license to go out on the road, you have to have insurance to drive a car. you don't like that, either? >> i don't like government -- >> do you want people to have insurance when they drive a car? >> i think that's a decent mandate. hold on, hold on. >> i'm giving you all the time you want, buddy. >> don't do the hold on crap with me, i'm letting you talk. >> i want people, when you have health care, that's a choice that impacts yourself. drivers insurance impacts other drivers you may have accidents with. >> but when you go to a hospital, to make the other side of the argument, and you go up to the hospital and show up in the e.r. and you show up at the hospital, which is required to give service 0 to everybody, aren't you putting your insurance costs on other people. >> i don't think it's right for the government to be mandating health insurance reaching into your accounts and doing that. >> but we mandate hospitals to

do e.r. coverage of everybody when they show up. so we are forcing hospitals to foot the bill and hospitals put the cost on the people who buy insurance. you know that. >> but you don't want to see government reaching in and hitting the pocketbooks and requiring them on the insurance front. i want to encourage them to incentivize behavior. i don't think mandates are the way to go. >> how do we get around the problem, there's so many people out there. this is why we're having the debate. it isn't so that barack obama gets a "w" next to his name. the question haas bothered the american people since teddy roosevelt's time is, some people have health insurance and some don't. how do we recognize that with our sense in this country, of looking out for each other, to some extent? to some extent? >> i think that with young people especially, a lot of it is encouragement. i've got a kid who is going out of the home now. and he think he's bulletproof in many ways. >> i got kids like that, too. we can encourage them to do it. because i know when i was in my

20s until i got married, i didn't go out and get insurance. that was a foolish mistake i had. i could have had a catastrophic occurrence that would have wiped me out financially and put the burden on other people. so i think education for young people is the law. they're the biggest bloc as i understand it, looking at the numbers of uninsured. >> i hear someone like you speak, and i know you worked on the hill like i did. here's my problem with you guys, the conservatives talk reasonably when the democrats get in power and say we have an alternative, that's more free market, and i accept all that. but when you guys are in power, you don't do anything on health care. and that's what happens, and that's why, for god, almost a century of foot-dragging on this. the democrats get in power, whether it's truman or bill clinton or hillary clinton, or barack obama, they try and fail. you guys are really good at playing negative politics. but when you get in power, when you have george w. bush in both

houses of congress, or reagan in there, with complete ideological control, you don't do anything on health care. >> i think republicans got off the tracks when they took over. and had the presidency and the entire congress. they missed a lot of opportunities, chris. health care was one of them. spending was the biggest one they missed. they blew it out of the water on spending. and that limits the ability now to take on some of the entitlements and to take on some of the bigger issues because they missed the spending argument so badly during their time in power. i, it's one of the reasons i got kicked out, by the way. the american people got tired of it. >> suppose they can't reach a compromise between the health and the finance committees, they can't reach a compromise in conference. i think the whole thing could be a bridge too far. i see a lot of hurdles ahead. and by the way, you've got a lot of opportunities to ambush these guys. at the end of the it all, barack obama crashes and burns at the of the year, what will republicans ever do on health care, now that they got the ball

in their hands, because they blew it out of this guy's hands, what are they going to do? >> i mentioned congressman ryan from wisconsin, he's a serious guy who is looking at this issue. i think they need to go back to these plans, for every time they've said no, and for us, too, as an organization, we've said no to different mandates, no to more spending. we need to say yes to some of these reforms. some of them are good. one of the most basic reforms is allowing folks to get insurance across state lines. it would dramatically reduce costs and open up options for people. i think that's the most important thing. when i worked on capitol hill, i had the best health care plan probably in the world. one of the reasons why, it let me choose a broad away of plans. that's the kind ever thing we need to get to. >> here's the problem i have. the republican party takes so much money for the insurance companies. your leadership takes so much money from the insurance companies, that like the status quo, they make a bundle. guys like john baner, the golfer and george will, those guys don't say what you're just

saying. they're not going to do anything on health care. so when you talk about ryan and deme everyone t and their ideas, the leadership in the republican party doesn't do anything on health care. year after year they've had the ball, with reagan, with george w. bush, with george bush senior r sr., they had the ball and then when barack obama tries to do something with the ball, all of a sudden you guys come alive, you guys disrupt meetings, you're brilliant at it. you're so good at playing defense, but you don't have an offense. >> two points, i think there are a wave of republican leaders coming who are genuinely coming up with good ideas and good solutions. i like to call tom coburn senator no. >> my kids love coburn. when we watch the hearings, i don't see civil discussion like you and i are having. i see people screaming trying to shut down meetings. so there is no discussion. but, tom and tim phillips, i hope i let you talk. >> can i have one more point, chris, just one more? >> when i look at the town hall

meetings, we encourage our membership, we're doing emails and calls saying come out. i've been to a lot of these meetings in the last few weeks. the vast majority of people, chris, are civil. i think congressman inglis did say that just now. with the anti-war movement in earlier in the decade. there are always some people who take it over the edge, but i'm telling you the vast majority of americans are coming out on their own and they're civil. >> this has been put out by the group called right principle. they this is what they say, rock the boat early in the meeting, watch for opportunities, yell out, these are instructions to people to go to the meetings. >> i know our organization is not do anything like that, we urge people to come out. for speaker pelosi to call these americans with a broad stroke unamerican, i think that's wrong. i think she's painting with too broad a brush there, chris. >> well said, thank you, tim phillips. coming up, who's winning the war on afghanistan. this is serious business. president obama has really invested in the war in afghanistan.

let's see what's going on there. we've got the courageous richard engel coming from kabul tonight. (announcer) crest whitestrips has created a revolutionary strip... it sticks to your teeth so well... you can even drink water with it on. crest whitestrips advanced seal. get a dramatically whiter smile... while you do just about anything. satisfaction guaranteed. you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet.

a report suggests out of "associated press" that south carolina governor, mark sanford, used state aircraft for personal trips. should he resign? when "hardball" returns. you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin. hi, may i help you? yes, i hear progressive has lots of discounts on car insurance. can i get in on that? are you a safe driver? yes. discount! do you own a home?

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welcome back to "hardball." "the wall street journal" ran a headline today that reads, quote, taliban now winning. in the story reports that the top u.s. commander in afghanistan, general stan mccrystal said the taliban have gained the upper hand in afghanistan. but the pentagon pushed back today and the general spokesman categorically denied that. but is the taliban gaining ground, despite president obama's troop build-up in afghanistan? nbc chief foreign correspondent, richard engel it is in kabul.

richard this is strange for a u.s. commander to even be quoted saying we're losing to the other side. >> it took many people by surprise here, including, we're told, the general himself. and there are a lot of angry people in the military here in kabul, back in the pentagon, there was a fleuu flurry of ema traffic, saying that the general mccrystal never said that. that the article totally mischaracterized what he was trying to say. he was trying to say that the enemy here is significant,s did an aggressive enemy, and that the united states is in the middle of a policy review, examining what has to change on the ground. because clearly, the current strategy isn't working very well. but the taliban has managed to gain a lot of ground. and just in july, saw the highest number of nato casualties since the war began. and already, this month, seems set for another bloody, another bloody death toll. so something clearly has to

change. and this policy review is under way. it was supposed to be done by right around now. but we've been told that general mccrystal will postpone it until after afghanistan's elections, which are ten days from now. >> well, common sense tells you you don't reconsider your strategy, if it's working. you reconsider your strategy if it's not. if the enemy is gaining strength, that means that you're losing strength relative to the enemy. isn't this just about words and how they're used? >> it's very difficult for a general to say we are losing. it's easier for them to say, we need to change strategy. and i think that's why the general was brought here. he's been asked to have this policy review, and already some details about what he specifically wants to change, have emerged. they haven't presented it to the defense department yet, but he said he wants to streamline the nato command. because right now it is really completely disorganized. where one sector will be handed over from the french to the

italians to the germans, all different computer systems, different languages, he wants to streamline that. and he wants to limit the number of civilian casualties, bring more drones and aircraft from iraq. and to double the number of the afghan security forces. the army and policeth and many here suspect all, doing all this will require more u.s. forces. >> well, isn't that the old question about afghanistan -- how long can an occupying force last in the country before they're hated the way the soviets were hated, the way the british were massacred eventually in afghanistan. and at what point can you limit the number of troops before you simply become another russian force? the russians had over 100,000 if we get much higher than 60,000, do we endanger ourselves of becoming as hated as the russians were? >> right now, when you include american forces and other nato forces, there are about 100,000 foreign troops on the ground right now. but the soldiers are keenly aware of the history. they know that afghanistan, and

i've been told this by soldiers, was not conquered by alexander the great. it wasn't conquered by the british. it wasn't conquered by the russiansments and i think taking from this lesson, the plerns don't want to conquer afghanistan. but at least pacify it enough so it's not an active threat to the united states. so it's not exporting militants and terrorists to the homeland, and they think that, which is a much more limited goal, is something they can do. >> can the united states eradicate the taliban? >> no. the taliban is an indigenous movement. and it's not just a militant movement. it is a group that began, particularly in the south. there's a lot of pashtun loyalty there, it's completely tied in with pashtun activities on the other side of the border in pakistan. so eliminating the taliban -- no, probably isn't possible. but pacifying them and preventing them from killing

americans and joining forces with al qaeda, which is a much more international organization, that's what they hope to do. but if you look at the record over the last eight years, it hasn't been terribly successful. this war, many people thought, was won several years ago, up until 2005, 2006. and then starting in 2007, it became much, much more violent. >> okay, thank you very much. richard engel in afghanistan. up next, he's back, former illinois governor, rod blagojevich is launching a new website, promoting his new gig. that's coming up on a new sideshow, where it belongs. tools are uncomplicated? nothing complicated about a pair of 10 inch hose clamp pliers. you know what's complicated? shipping. shipping's complicated. not really. with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service shipping is easy. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. that's not complicated. come on.

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back to "hardball," time for the sideslow. first up, a tense moment overseas, at hillary clinton's town hall in the congo today. a student asked the secretary of state what president obama thought of the trade deal between the congo and china. the thing is the translator got

it wrong and asked secretary clinton, what bill, her husband thought of the deal. here's hillary's response. quote, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband's not the secretary of state. i am. you ask my opinion, i will tell you my opinion, i'm not going to channel my husband. talk about the rumble in the jungle. next up, b-rod is back. governor rod.com promises to spread the word about b-rod's mission. and also tracks his public event. here's a sense of what to expect. b-rod showed up at a chicago block party this past friday, where he channelled elvis presley with list very own, very special version of "treat me nice." here he is. ♪

♪ you going to make me sore ♪ if you don't treat me right ♪ don't you ever kiss me once ♪ kiss me twice ♪ treat me nice >> that's unbelievable. the real question is, who's been singing to the grand jury out there? and finally in july, embattled senator roland burris, the man b-rod appointed to barack obama's vacated u.s. senate seat, said he wouldn't be running for election in 2010. but here's the senator with an abc news interview, the first one he had since that announcement, singing a brand-new different tune about his plan. >> people all over the country, and they are saying you know, don't give up that seat. >> there's no way you'd change your mind, is there? >> whoa. >> you got 18 months. you've got time to change your mind. >> let me put it this way, you never say never in this business. >> wow, what illinois democrats think an african-american candidate for the senate, savvy,

smart and unconnected to blagojevich. time for tonight's big number. everyone remembers where they were when richard nixon resigned from office and boarded the helicopter, there he is. how long has it been since that historic moment? 35 years ago yesterday. august 9th, 1974. also my wife's birthday. perhaps the most fascinating president in history. dick nixon resigned from office, tonight's big number. up next, an "associated press" investigation has found that south korea governor, mark sanford used state aircraft for personal and political trips. often to bring along his wife and children. are his days in office numbered? you're watching "hardball." (announcer) illness doesn't care where you live... ...or if you're already sick... ...or if you lose your job.

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. here's what's happening. tsunami warnings is been lifted in india and japan, after two strong earthquakes at sea.

one just south of tokyo bay. another even stronger quake hitting just off the coast of india. japanese authorities shut down two nuclear reactors and bullet train service as a precaution. right now, they're carrying out intensive safety checks and inspections, but so far, no major damage or injuries have been reported. in new york city, divers have found the body in the wreckage of a small plane at the bomb of the hudson river, it collided with a helicopter on saturday, resulting in nine deaths. the body is pinned in the wreckage and cannot be recovered right now. the plane could be lifted from the river as early as tomorrow. on wall street, stocks retreated today, as investors locked in profits after a four-week rally. the dow jones industrial averages down 32 points, the s&p 500 lost three, and the nasdaq finished eight points lower. now back to "hardball."

welcome to "hardball." south carolina governor, mark sanford, may have more trouble right now, "associated press" reporter jim davinport wroed wrote this -- governor sanford spokesman has a different opinion. quote once again, this specific reporter -- and later today, a south carolina state senator said sanford broke the law. joining me now is scoppi, associate editor of the state newspaper. sydney thanks for joining us, put it into perspective.

is it just piling on at this point. the governor's wife walked out with all the official statement and the videotape the other day and now the story comes on the foot of that. what do we make of all of this coming up at the same time? >> i'm not sure about it coming up at the same time. but i will tell you that while we've been really disturbed by our governor's actions, we have not felt up until now that there was anything indictable or impeachable, this, though, could rise to that level. it seems that the governor really owes the people of south carolina an explanation. i think the burden is on him to demonstrate that the abuses of the state plane really were for official business. because his calendar doesn't seem to reflect that. >> his official spokesperson, apparently in response to the piece by the "associated press," said he could justify the trips because in each case, it may have been a personal event there. a family event or whatever.

but there was also an official event. >> well like i said, i'm looking forward to him documenting that a little bit better than his calendar seems to document it. for instance, there are events where he clearly did not feel like it was appropriate to take the state plane to the event, in myrtle beach or in beaufort county, but he felt like it was okay to have the state plane fly down and get limb and his family and bring them back. if seems to me if you're going on a vacation or to a political outing and you know that that's not state business, it's incumbent upon you to get yourself back it state business. >> let me bring in gene, gene robinson, i guess i'm used to presidents who travel where they want to when they want to. they use federal planes whenever they want to. play golf, whatever, they fly. i guess it's hard for me to get the ethical problem involved here, what do you make of it? >> well a couple of trips that have been reported today, seem pretty egregious. the one in particular in which

the governor was in myrtle beach seems to have taken the official state aircraft to fly to columbia it make haircut appointment. at which point he then went back. and that would be pushing it, i think. shades of john edwards and his haircut problems. and of course, later this afternoon there was a finding by the head of the state senate budget committee, that sanford had violated the law as the state senator says, by booking business class and first-class passage on his overseas trips as opposed to traveling the cheapest way possible. now that to me, you know, i think if you get to be a governor, i think you ought to be able to fly business class. but nonetheless, that is, that is, that may well be a violation of south carolina law, technically. that just adds to the trouble that, that governor sanford is

having. and the embarrassment for him and for his party in south carolina. >> cindi scoppe, i guess i find it hard to believe that a governor would really be kicked out of office for flying business class, when he travels as far as brazil. even the journalist accommodations that are relatively cheap. when you have to travel over a 12-hour or a 13-hour flight, they usually give you a break and let you travel at least business class. south carolina tougher than this when with its money? >> a couple of things, i agree it's egreej ousz to think he would be kicked out of office just for that. you talked about presidents flying all over the place. south carolina law doesn't allow that. on other places you can use state aircraft or you can use air force one and reimburse the state or the nation. you can't do that in south carolina, there's no provision in our law for that. it's the cumulative effect. and again, i don't think that

the flying business class, flying first-class, are things that would get him kicked out of office, even though our state law does prohibit those things. it's the question of how much adds up. and i don't think we're there at this point. but this is the first time where it seems to me like there legitimately are things that need to be investigated and that could land him in serious trouble, legally. >> what do you make of this, gene, because presidents don't have to reimburse anybody for anything. they have to pay for political trips. when they fly to some ranch in california or the western white house, wherever they set up their digs, they always charge the government for that. is this all tied into the fact that he had a girlfriend, or has a girlfriend in buenos aires, is this what this is really about? >> sure. cindi said sure.

what's the connection, cindi? >> well, the connection is most people in south carolina wouldn't care if it weren't for the girlfriend thing. we had a situation about four or five years ago, where we had another statewide elected official, who checked out a state van, it wasn't even one issued to him, to drive his family, i think to minnesota on vacati vacation. and then bring it back. it was clearly against the law. and the public re-elected him. they said, we don't care, he's a good fiscal conservative, who we love. if mark sanford weren't in trouble, the public would not care about this. >> what's the public care -- by the way, gene -- i'm sorry to hold up your time, gene. i want to know, does the public care about his affair with the woman in argentina? do they really care? and what do they want him to do? >> it's split. it's split. you know, there ra lot of people who are really sick of reading about it. sick of talking about it, sick of hearing about it. just want the whole thing to go away. there are a lot of other people

who really want to keep talking about it. and are really disgusted with him and want him to resign. that's not going to happen. and so far, i don't think the case has been made that he needed to resign. what we've seen up until this point are good reasons to never elect someone like this. what we're seeing today, show could be reasons that go beyond that. although i think the jury is still out. >> gene, clean up here, what's it all about? put it together as you editorialize here. what's the point here? >> there's a couple of points to make. number one, keep in mind that sanford's reputation is as a fiscal conservative. he's so cheap, he makes staff use both sides of post-it notes. so the hypocrisy, seriously, so the hypocrisy factor is huge here. to be taking the plane to get a haircut. second, this, as you recall, jenny sanford just moved out of the governor's mansion. and that reminded me of

something that happened actually in argentina, when i was covering it at the place where sanford's lover lives. president the then president was a notorious womanizer, his wife got fed up with it and she actually kicked him out of the presidential residence, she locked him out. he had to live in a different apartment for a couple of months until she went on vacation and he blanked to take back the official president's mansion. >> so there you have it. thank you for putting it into international perspective on this, eugene. i don't know where to go with this, i'll let it die right here. cindi scoppe, thank you for joining us from the state newspaper in south carolina. and up next, we find where obama stands right now. you want to see where your state stands? this is great stuff. he's doing better in some parts of the country than others. "hardball," back in a minute. creswhit

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we're back, time for the politics fix with the politicos, jim vandehei and lynn sweet who writes for politicsdaily.com. both of you, look at this polling. this is fascinating, late june and you can extrapolate take all of these numbers down ten points based on the national number. but look at the state where barack obama is enormously popular. hawaii, vermont, maryland, massachusetts, connecticut and new york, illinois. now let's take a look at the states where they don't like him

at all. this doesn't surprise you, either. wyoming, alaska, idaho, utah, west virginia. jim, somebody said, wherever people don't live, they don't like barack obama. sparsely-populated states. they don't like him. >> right, and that's been the case for style. if you look at polling, any state that tends to be rural, tends to be out in the west, does not like democrats. does not like obama as much as they do republicans. there weren't many big surprises on there. what surprised colorado's favorable ratings for obama were so low, he spent a lot of time there during the campaign and democrats feel he's made a lot of progress in that state in trying to trend it a little more democratic. but basically, that poll breaks down with what you're seeing across the country. there has been over the last couple of months, a swing especially if you look at independent voters and white democrats, a pretty big swing against barack obama. and that is very troublesome to the folks in the white house. that's why you see them kicking

in the political operation into full gear. trying to win not only the health care debate over the august recess, but also sort of the debate about barack obama and his presidency today. >> let's take a look at the map and show where it stands, without hanging any crepe here, jim, let's just do this. let's assume based on the polling, it's about ten points lower these states. look at this across the board, look at the map. i want to get into the differentiation about how people, their attitudes. lynn sweet, we're looking at a map that shows the red part of the state, the plains states and down through texas, oklahoma, louisiana, no surprises. the east and the west, tend to be especially new england states and california, very blue. almost blue or white, which is close to blue in these areas. what is this about the country? it seems to me, that we're going to have an election next november, even, that reflects the national map that hasn't changed much since i was a kid. there's not much change.

lynn? >> well the thing, yes, you're right. the thing to look at, though, on the map that it still means tha obama has the coalition of states together that he needs to help win in the reelection if we're looking down the road. and it also shows which i'm not surprised at that the states on the coast are most supportive of him. hawaii, his native state of illinois, those are true givens i think at this point. the popularity is one thing. the job approval is another. i think as he goes ahead as, you know, as was just mentioned, in order to have the white house really worried, you'd have to see his likability go down drastically as well as have a problem with the job approval. he can take one hit, can't take two. right now his personal ratings are still doing relatively okay. >> you know, jim, when i look at this movement and look at where you hear the most noise and anger about his very legitimacy. there's an ethnic piece to it,

it's centered in the south. >> absolutely. what the polling results don't show, i think, is emphatically is that the republican party is still very much dominated by the south. and if you look at obama's victory and his proposition he can change the democratic party and politics in general. he can change things north of the south. he can start to change things in the midwest and take states like ohio, like pennsylvania, colorado, places that have been up and down in the last decade in politics and make them solidly democratic. but that would be the big achievement. that would really be where you would have a realignment. it's not at all clear that you would have that after six months, but it's not at all ever clear. you need to check back in two years and see if he is making progress in those swing states. >> you can also see the republican party's opportunity coming up next year. they don't have to change people's minds ideologically. you can still be a democrat and vote, for example, for a new governor in massachusetts, which is very likely, and new governor in new jersey, which is a very democratic state. you can -- i can see republicans

winning in a lot of states where the democrats still rule ideologically. >> absolutely. one of the reasons these town halls are getting so much attention and worry by the insiders is that if you have a shaky member, someone you're afraid could lose their nerve, they know that people will be crossover voters. >> and they know what? that people are going to end up voting against their normal pattern just to stick a message to the other side. >> could well be and then people in these states even though there's no such thing as a forever permanently solid state. you know illinois with the senate race there, there was worry among the national democrats that it will be a tougher sell than they thought to keep -- >> well, i'll give you a couple of states that aren't going to change. utah's not going to start electing democratic senators again, and new york's not going to go the other way. just guessing. we'll be back to talk about this health thing. we have a civilized discussion on the show tonight. but it's not civilized elsewhere. we'll be right back with

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we're back with more of the politics fix. let's take a look at what governor palin said over the weekend. a couple of different shots of this. first in her facebook on friday. quote the america i know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby will have to stand in front of obama's death panel. so his bureaucrats can decide

based on subjective judgment of their level of productivity in society whether they're worthy of health care. such a system is downright evil. that's ex-governor palin. here's what she wrote on sunday apparently as a modification. "we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation and harassment." i don't know what she's up to. it gets topsy temperatuurvy, th thing she says, let's get civil. >> first of all, so people out there know, there are no death panels being proposed by anyone. there is some end of life counseling that's under medicare provision in the house version of the bill. that might be the origins of what she's talking about. but this takes on a life of its own, chris, and i think she was probably wise to have a more tempered statement on her second go on it because otherwise she would have no leg to stand on on this one. >>