thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. we now turn to our highway 61 revisited correspondent kent jones. hi, kent >> hi, rachel. bob dylan is always trying new things. this time he's trying something really different. take a look. rebel, visionary, iconoclast, one of america's most important artists. for a man whose unpredictability has been his trademark, his latest stylistic experiment may be his boldest yet. are you ready for bob dylan? christmas album? when i say christmas album i

think this -- ♪ have a holly jolly christmas ♪ ♪ it's the best time of the year ♪ >> reporter: nonetheless several music sites are predicting that the man born robert zimmerman is releasing a christmas record which will include such holiday chestnuts as "here comes santa claus" and "i'll be home for christmas." we got our hands on an early demo. ♪ frosty the snowman was a jolly, happy soul ♪ ♪ with a corncob pipe and a button nose ♪ ♪ and two eyes made out of coal ♪ >> reporter: i think this could open up new family friendly horizons for would be like yet another side of bob dylan, or bob the tank engine or bob for babies. you watch. i'll make fun of dylan's christmas album, and it will

turn out to be the coolest thing ever. how will that feel? >> exactly what i was thinking. >> i just expected it. >> thank you, kent. thank you for watching tonight. death wish. let's play "hardball." > good evening. i'm chris matthews in boston tonight. leading off tonight, killing it loudly. let's face it, the people who said they're opposed to this provision of health care reform or that one aren't looking to improve the bill. they're trying to find any way they can to kill it. they argue against federally funded abortion or make up stories about government sponsored euthanasia for old people, but they never say take this out of the bill and i'm for reform. no, they want this dead, and

they want to destroy barack obama in the process. we've got one of the people organizing those town hall events, and we're going to play "hardball" with him tonight. and check out this startling "wall street journal" headline. taliban now winning. quoting general stan mcchrystal, the top u.s. commander in afghanistan. the pentagon pushed back today and said the journal misrepresented what the general was saying, but this story does raise the question whether taliban are gaining the upper hand despite president obama's troop build-up and his focus on afghanistan. nbc's richard engel reports from kabul tonight to us. plus, bad news just keeps piling up for south carolina governor mark sanford. an associated press investigation revealed that the two-term republican used a state plane for personal trips to his children's sporting events, for hair and dentist appointments, and political party events. does this put more trouble into this guy's face? plus we have a fascinating gallup poll out that shows each 6950 states showing where president obama is most and least popular.

it's a fascinating list. we're going to crunch the numbers in tonight's politics fix. finally, what did hillary clinton think someone said about bill clinton to get her to smack down the questioner in the congo. first, we begin with the politics of health care debate. bob english is a republican from south carolina. what is going on out there in the country right now? why all these disruptions at meetings like yours? >> well, chris, i'm happy for people to come to town meetings. we had a great town meeting the other night, 350 people there. some were there to express their very strong opposition to the billing, opposition in some cases turned into hostility, and hostility turned into hysteria for a few, so pretty wild time, but by and large it was a good event. >> let's take a listen at what

happened at your event. we have a tape of that, sir. thank you, congressman. >> here is what i suggest. turn that television off when he comes on. let me tell you why. let me tell you why. do you know why? because he's trading on fear. and you know what? i think if you trade on fear, what you're doing is you're not leading, you're just following fearful people. >> well, who do you think is stirring up all this noise because that's not a discussion, that's not a debate. that's a screaming fit against you. >> yeah, that turned out to be quite a screaming fit right there. well, i think that, you know, it is true, what we have to do is we have to figure out a way to get past the fear here. there are people out there that are selling fear, that trade on fear, and the result is there isn't a good discussion. there are a lot of things to discuss in this health care plan, and there are many reasons to be opposed. in fact, i sent out a press release last week saying 16

reasons to be opposed to obama care. the top one being that the public option will put private insurance companies out of business, i fear, and the result will be that we end up with a single payer system. that's a problem with the obama package. but that doesn't mean we need to be hysterical about that. what it means is we need to have a reasoned debate and say these are our objections. and here is what we can do that's a positive alternative to that, and i think if we could get past some of the hysteria and get the president open to dropping the public option, we could actually get to a solution. >> would you vote for it if he did? >> if he dropped the public option -- >> yeah. >> -- and if he made it clear there wouldn't be funding for abortion within the package. >> all right. >> then i think what's left is actually something we can work with. >> i think -- let me just -- you're a republican, sir. you're from south carolina. let me ask you a couple things that they're good so we get back to substantial. i know that's where you want to

go. is it good to try to require young people who are healthy to join into some kind of health insurance like we did with car drivership? is it good to get everybody into this together so the young and healthy share the cost of health care with the old and unhealthy? is that a good thing? >> yes. individual mandate makes sense. yes, it does. >> what about the idea of subsidizing in some way health insurance and getting people who have less than an average income but they're not poverty stricken to start participating in their own health care by paying something and getting some help in doing so? is that a good idea? in other words, get people -- >> that makes a lot of sense. >> okay. what about the idea of encouraging -- not mandating but encouraging employer contributions to health care? >> well, what i'd like to do, it may make sense if you can perpetuate a system of employer-provided insurance. i'd like to break that connection and have a system

where we own our own insurance, but -- >> yeah. >> as long as we're saddled with an employer-based system, it makes sense to incentivize employers to provide insurance. >> how about some kind of national clearinghouse like they advertise on these networks like priceline where a person can without killing themselves can do a little shopping and get the best deal, the best coverage for their situation? i think that's one of the things they're talking about doing. that's the last thing -- what do you think of that idea? >> it's a great idea. in fact, john shat tig from arizona, a good republican out there, has a great idea like that. it basically is a national system of competition among insurance companies. that's a bill that i'm on and it makes a lot of sense. it's an xmpl example of something we can work together on. >> i can't vote in south carolina, but you got my vote sir. thank you for coming on the air and talking -- no, i mean t i love politics and i love politicians who have the guts to do what they have to do. if you're on the political right, fair enough. let's hear the arguments. thank you, sir. let's go to tim phillips, the president of americans for prosperity. tim, where are you from politically? what's your story? >> i'm a free market

conservative. >> are you one of the people that questions the president's legitimacy as president? >> no, absolutely not. >> you're not a birther or anything like that? >> i tell folks i want to -- >> let's clarify you're not a birther. >> that's correct. >> what about sarah palin? we have voices out there like glenn beck who is a smart guy but he knows how to stir things up. you have sarah palin talking about death panels and apparently she's pulled back. >> right. >> let's try to get some civility about this. what do you want politically out of this health care bill? what would you like to see at the end of the day in this health care debate? >> first and foremost we don't want -- >> no, no, no i will not have that conversation with you. what do you want? >> i want to see better choices and more choices for american citizens, not mandates, but tax incentives that reward behavior. >> how do we do that? what are we doing to get that? >> first, we can push and expand hsas. they're not the be all end all, but they're a good starting point for broadening people's choices.

i also think that we ought to allow people to choose coverage from across state lines. this current system is not good. i mean, it locks you in within your state. >> who's involved in the debate on capitol hill that is pushing what you want? >> congressman ryan. senator demint in the senate. we've looked at his legislation. we think both of those pieces of legislation are good pieces that are good starting points for discussion. >> let's talk about some of the things in the president's bill and you give me your critique about what you like or dislike. i looked at the "new york times." whatever you think of the "new york times" they did an analysis. i want your judgment on this. encourage people -- mandate people when they reach young adulthood to get involved in health insurance. in other words, you can't be waiting around until your 45 years old and get a disease to say i think i better buy health insurance. do you like the idea of requiring people to have health

insurance at a young age? >> i do not. i don't think it's good for the government to be mandating and requiring that. i'm opposed to that. >> they mandate you buy a -- when you get a driver's license to go on the road you have to have insurance to drive a car. >> i don't want -- >> do you want people to have insurance to drive a car. >> i think that's a decent mandate -- hold on. >> i'm giving you all the time. don't do this hold on crap with me buddy. i know the tactics. talk. >> thanks chris. >> just talk. >> when you have health care that's a choice that impacts yourself. drivers insurance impact it's other drivers. you may have accidents with. >> when you go to a hospital, just to make the other side of the argument, you go to a hospital and you show up in the e.r. and you go to the hospital which is required to give service to everybody, aren't you giving the cost of your health care on somebody else's insurance if you're not insured? >> it's not necessarily somebody else's insurance. it could impact their cost eventually. i don't think it's right for the government to be mandating health insurance reaching into your accounts and doing that.

>> but we mandate hospitals to do e.r. coverage of ev when they show up. they are worsing hospitals to foot the bill and hospitals put the costs on the people who buy insurance. you know that. >> they do put the costs on the people who buy insurance, but i don't want to see government reaching in and hitting their pocketbooks and requiring them on the insurance front. i want to encourage them, maybe give tax incentives to invent advise behavior. i don't think mandates are the way to go. >> how do we get around the problem there are so many people out there, this is why we're having this debate, the question that's bothered the american people since, what, since teddy roosevelt's time is some people have health insurance and some don't. how do we reconcile that with our sense in this country of looking out for each other to some extent? to some extent. >> i think with young people especially, a lot of it encouragement. i have a kid who is going out of the home who thinks he's bullet proof. >> i have kids like that, too. >> we can encourage him. when i was in my 20s, until i got married i didn't go out and get insurance. that was a foolish mistake i made. i could have had a catastrophic occurrence that could have wiped me out financially. young people are the biggest

bloc looking at the numbers of the uninsured. >> when i hear someone like you speak and you worked on the hill like i did and i know you're a serious wonk like i was once. here is my problem with you guys. the conservatives talk reasonably when the democrats get in power and say we have an alternative that's more free market, it's less onerous, less big shot, big government stuff and i accept all that. but when you guys are in power, you don't do anything on health care, and that's what happens and that's why for, god, almost a century of foot dragging on this, the democrats get in power, whether it's truman or bill clinton or hillary clinton or barack obama, they try something and it fails because you guys are good at playing negative politics. you're really good at destroying democrats' planned chances to reform. but when you get in power, when justify george w. bush and both houses of congress or reagan in there with complete ideological control, you don't do anything on health care.

>> i think republicans got off the tracks when they took over and had the presidency and the entire congress. they missed a lot of opportunities, chris. health care was one of them. spending was the biggest one they missed. they blew it out of the water on spending. that limits the ability now to take on some of the entitlements and take on some of the bigger issues because they missed the spending argument so badly during their time in power. i think it's one reason they got kicked out, too, by the way. >> at the end of the year if you guys bring down health care and it can't get through the senate, suppose they can't reach a compromise between the house and the finance committee, if they can't reach a compromise in committee, i think it may be a bridge too far. by the way, you got a lot of opportunities to ambush these guys. at the end of it all if barack obama crashes and fails at the end of the year, what will the republicans ever do on health care now that they got the ball in their hands because they blew it out of this guy's hands? what are you going to do when you get your chance to do it? >> i think they have an opportunity. i mentioned congressman ryan

from wisconsin. he's a serious guy who is looking at this issue as a pretty broad plan and senator demint. i think they need to go back to the plans and for every time they have said no, and us too as an organization, as we've said no to different mandates, no to more spending, we need so say yes to some reforms. one of the most basic reforms is allowing folks to get insurance across state lines. and you know the numbers on that. it would dramatically reduce costs and open up options for people. and i think that's the most important thing. when i worked on capitol hill, i had the best health care plan probably in the world, and one of the reasons why, it let me choose a broad array of plans. that's the kind of thing we need to get to. >> here is the problem i have. the republican party takes so much money from the insurance companies, your leadership takes so much money from the insurance companies they like the status quo. they make a bundle. guys like john boehner, the golfer, and mitch mcconnell who reminds me of george will expo nen shally. when you talk about ryan and

talk about de menthe and these ideas they propose, the leadership of the republican party doesn't do anything on health care. year after year after year, they've had the ball with reagan, with george w. bush, with george bush, sr. they had the ball and you guys never do anything. then when barack obama tries to do something with the ball, all of a sudden you guys come alive, you disrupt meetings, you're brilliant at it, you are so good at playing defense, but you don't have an offense. >> two points to that. one, i think there are a wave of republican leaders coming who are genuinely coming up with good ideas and good solutions. they like to call tom coburn senator no. he's got some great -- >> my kids love coburn. when i watch these hearings, we'll show these meetings, i don't see civil discussion like you and i are having. i see people screaming, trying to shut down meetings so there is no discussion. but tim phillips i hope i let you talk. >> can i have just one more point? >> go ahead. >> we are encouraging our

membership, we're doing e-mails and calls saying come out. i have been to a lot of meetings. the vast majority of people are civil. i think the congressman did say that just now. i think with the anti-war movement earlier this decade, there are always some people who take it over the edge and are inappropriate, but i'm telling you the vast majority of americans at these meetings are coming out on their own and they are civil. >> this has been put out by the group called right principles. this is what they tell people to do. rock the boat early in the meeting. watch for an opportunity. yell out, shout out. embolden others to call out and yell out. these are instructions to people who go to these meetings. they're not encouraing them to discuss and listen. >> our organization does not do anything like that. we're urging people to come out and for speaker pelosi to call these americans with a broad stroke un-american, i think that's wrong. i think she's painting with too broad a brush there. >> well said. thank you tim phillips, thank you for coming on the show. coming up, who is winning the war in afghanistan. this is serious business. barack obama has really invested in the war in afghanistan. let's see what's going on over there. we have the very courageous rich engel coming from kabul tonight.

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and indigestion. you deserve better than to always be compromised by urges and leaks. ask your doctor today about taking care with vesicare. welcome back to "hardball." "the wall street journal" ran a headline today that reads, quote, taliban now winning. and the story reports that the top u.s. commander in afghanistan, general stan mcchrystal, said that the taliban have gained the upper hand in afghanistan, but the pentagon pushed back today and the general's spokesman categorically denies that the general said the taliban is winning. in other words, beating us over there. but is the taliban gaining ground despite president obama's troop buildup in afghanistan? nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in kabul. this is strange for a u.s.

commander to be quoted saying we're losing to the other side. >> reporter: it took many people by surprise here, including we are told the general himself, and there are a lot of angry people in the military here in kabul, back in the pentagon. there was a fleury of e-mail traffic after this article appeared saying that general mcchrystal never said that, that the quote -- that the article totally mischaracterized what he wanted to say. he was trying to say that the enemy here is significant. it is an aggressive enemy, and that the united states is under -- is in the middle of a policy review examining what has to change on the ground because clearly the current strategy isn't working very well. the taliban has managed to gain a lot of ground and just in july saw the highest number of nato casualties since the war began. already this month seems set for another bloody death toll. so something clearly has to change, and this policy review is under way. it was supposed to be done by right around now, but we've been told that general mcchrystal will postpone it until after

afghanistan's elections, which are ten days from now. >> well, common sense tells you you don't reconsider your strategy if it's working. you reconsider your strategy if it's not. if the enemy is gaining strength, that means you're losing strength relative to the enemy. so isn't this just about words and how they're used? >> reporter: it's very difficult for a general to say we are losing. it's easier for them to say we need to change strategy, and i think that's why the general was brought here. he's been asked to have this policy review, and already some details about what he specifically wants to change have emerged. he hasn't presented this to the defense department yet, but he

said he wants to streamline the nato command because right now it is really completely disorganized where one sector will be handed over from the french to the italians to the germans then back to the americans, all different computer systems, different languages. so wants to streamline that. he also wants to limit the number of civilian casualties, bring more drones and aircraft from iraq, and to double the number of the afghan security forces, the army and police, and many here suspect doing all of this will require more u.s. forces. >> well, isn't that the old question about afghanistan? how long can an occupying force last in the country before they're hated the way the soviet yet were hated, the way the british were massacred eventually in afghanistan and at what point can you limit the number of troops before you simply become another russianen force. the russians had over 100,000. if we get over 60,000 do we endanger ourselves of becoming as hated as the russians were? >> right now when you include american forces and other nato forces there are about 100,000 foreign troops on the ground right now, but the soldiers are keenly aware of the history. this he know afghanistan, and i have been told this by soldiers, was not conquered by alexander the great, by the british, or the russians, and i think taking from this lesson the americans

don't want to conquer afghanistan but at least pacify it enough so it's not an active threat to the united states so that it's not exporting militants and terrorists to the homeland and they think that, which is a much more limited goal, is something they can do. >> can the united states eradicate the taliban? >> reporter: no. the taliban is an indigenous movement, and it's not just a militant movement. it is a group that began particularly in the south. there's a lot of pashtun loyalty there. it's completely tied in with pashtun activity on the other side of the border in pakistan. so eliminating the taliban, no, probably isn't possible, but pacifying them and preventing them from killing americans and joining forces with al qaeda, which is a much more international organization, that's what they hope to do, but if you look at the record over the last eight years, it hasn't been terribly successful. this war many people thought was won several years ago up until 2005-2006, and then starting in 2007 it became much, much more

violent. >> okay. thank you very much richard engel in afghanistan. up next, he's back. former illinois governor rod blagojevich is launching a new website promoting his new gigs. that's coming up on the "sideshow" where it belongs. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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don't wait. alzheimer's isn't waiting. back to "hardball." time for the "sideshow." first up, a tense moment overseas at hillary clinton's town hall in the congo. a student asked the secretary of state what president obama thought of the trade deal between the congo and china.

the thing is the translator got it wrong and asked secretary clinton what bill, her husband, thought of the deal. here is hillary's response, quote, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state, i am. you ask my opinion, i'll tell you my opinion. i'm not going to channel my husband. well, talk about the rumble in the jungle. next up, b-rod is back in action. the ousted illinois governor launched a website today. governor rod.com that promises to spread the word about b-rod's mission as, quote, a champion for ordinary americans. well, the site has the latest on b-rod's upcoming book and radio show and also tracks his public events. here is a sense of what to expect. b-rod showed up at a chicago block party this past friday where he channeled elvis presley with his very own very special version of "treat me nice." here he is. ♪ baby be polite, you're going

to make me sore if you don't treat me right ♪ ♪ don't you ever kiss me once, kiss me twice, please be nice ♪ >> that's unbelievable but the real question is who has been singing to the grand jury out there. finally in july embattled senator roland burris said he would not be running for election in 2010. but here is the senator with an abc news interview, the first one he's had since that announcement singing a brand new different tune about his plans. >> people all over the country are saying don't give up that seat. >> can you change your mind and

decide to run? you got 18 months. you have time to change your mind. >> well, let me put it this way, you never say never in this business. >> wow. what illinois democrats need is an african-american democrat for the senate, savvy, and unconnected to blagojevich. everyone remembers where they were when richard nixon resigned from office and boarded that moment. how long has it been since that historic moment? 35 years ago yesterday, august 9th, 1974, also my wife's birthday. perhaps the most fascinating president in history. an associated press investigation has found that south carolina governor mark sanford used state aircraft for personal and political trips often to bring along his wife and children. are his days in office numbered? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. boss: so you've been doing a nice job out there helping people save money on car insurance. gecko: aw thank you, sir. boss: but i think there are a few other things you can say about what a reliable company geico is. gecko: right. uh, well maybe how geico's the third-largest car insurance company in america? nice tidbit there. boss: exactly. and i've been thinking, looking a bit more businesslike might help too.

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tsunami warnings have been lifted in india and japan after two strong earthquakes at sea. one of them was just south of tokyo bay. another even stronger quake hitting off the case of india. japanese authorities shut down two nuclear reactors and bullet train service as a precaution number major damage or serious injuries have been reported. nnchts new york city, divers have found the body and wreckage of a small plane at the bottom of the hudson river. that is the plane that collided with a sight seeing helicopter on saturday resulting in nine deaths. divers say the body is pinned in the wreckage. authorities hope to lift the plane from the water later today. meanwhile in, capitol hill, house leaders are scrapping plans to spend $330 million on new high end jets for senior officials. instead, they're asking for only $220 million to replace a handful of older jets that they say have safety and maintenance issues. now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." south carolina governor mark sanford may have more trouble right now. associated press reporter jim davenport wrote this. quote, records reviewed by the associated press show that since he took office in 2003, the two-term republican has taken trips on state aircraft to locations of his children's sporting events, hash and dentist appointments, political party gatherings and a birthday party for a campaign donor. governor sanford's spokesman has a different opinion. quote, once again this specific reporter misrepresents the facts with regard to the governor's travel. every time the governor used the state plane it was for a official state purse and that official state purpose was documented. joining me right now is cindy skopy and eugene robinson. put this in perspective. is this just piling on at this point. the governor's wife walked out with the official statement and the videotape the other day and now this story comes right on

the foot of that. what do we make of all this coming up at the same time? >> i'm not sure about it coming up at the same time, but i will tell you that while we've been really disturbed by our governor's actions, we have not felt up until now that there was anything indictable or impeachable. this though could rise to that level. it seems that the governor really owes the people of south carolina an explanation. i think the burden is on him to demonstrate that these uses of the state plane really were for official business because his calendar doesn't seem to reflect that. >> well, his official spokesperson apparently in response to the piece by the ap, the associated press, said that he could justify the trips because in each case it may have been a personal event there, a

family event or whatever, but there was also an official event. >> well, like i said, i'm looking forward to him documenting that a little bit better than his calendar seems to document it. for instance, there are events where he clearly did not feel like it was appropriate to take the state plane to the event in myrtle beach or in buford county, but he felt like it was okay to have the state plane fly down and get him and his family and bring them back. it seems to me that if you're going on vacation or to a political outing and you know that that's not state business, that it's incumbent upon you to get yourself back to your state business. >> let me bring in gene. gene robinson, i guess i'm used to presidents who travel whenever they want to when they want to. e use federal planes when ever they feel like it, they go anywhere, play golf, whatever, they fly. i guess it's hard for me to get the ethical problem. what do you make of it? >> well, a couple trips that have been reported seem pretty egregious.

there's one in particular in which the governor was in myrtle beach. seems to have taken the official state aircraft to fly to columbia to make a haircut appointment at which point he then went back. and that would be pushing it, i think. >> yeah. >> shades of john edwards and his haircut problems. and, of course, later this afternoon there was a finding by the head of the state senate budget committee that sanford had violated the law as the state senator says by booking business class and first-class passage on his overseas trips as opposed to traveling the cheapest way possible. now, that to me -- you know, i think if you get to be a governor, i thought you ought to be able to fly business class, but nonetheless, that is -- that may well be a violation of south carolina law technically. this just adds to the trouble that governor sanford is having and the embarrassment for him

and for his party in south carolina. >> cindi, i guess i find it hard to believe a governor would be kicked out of offers for flying business class when he travels as far as brazil. even journalistic organizations that are relatively cheap, when you have to travel for practically over a 12 or 13 hour flight, they usually give you the break and let you travel at least business class. but is south carolina tougher than that with its money? >> well, a couple of things. first, i agree that it's outrageous to think he would be kicked out of office just for that. you talked about presidents flying all over the place. south carolina law doesn't allow that. other places you can use state aircraft or you can use air force one and reimburse the state or the nation for that. you can't do that in south carolina. there's no provision in our law

for that. it's the cumulative effect, and, again, i don't think that those flying business class, flying first class are things that would get him kicked out of office even though our state law does prohibit those things. it's the question of how much adds up, and i don't think we're there at this point, but this is the first time where it seems to me like there legitimately are things that need to be investigated and that could really land him in some serious trouble legally. >> what do you make of this, gene, because, you know, presidents don't have to reimburse anybody for anything. they do have to pay for political trips. when they fly to some ranch in california, they fly to the western white house or wherever

they set up their digs, wherever they feel like going, they always charge the government for that. is this all tied into the fact that he had a girlfriend or has a girlfriend down in buenos air res? >> sure. >> cindi said sure. i love the sure. what's the connection, cindi? >> the connection is most people in south carolina wouldn't care if it weren't for the girlfriend thing. we had a situation about four or five years ago where we had another statewide elected official who checked out a state van, it wasn't even one issued to him, to drive his family i think to minnesota on vacation, and then bring it back. it was clearly against the law, and the public re-elected him. they said we don't care, he's a good fiscal conservative who we love. if mark sanford weren't in trouble, the public would not care about this. >> what's the public care -- by the way, gene -- i'm sorry to hold up your time, gene, but i want to know from cindi does the public care about his affair with the woman in argentina? do they really care? and what do they want him to do? >> it's split. yeah.

it's split. there are a lot of people who are really sick of reading about it, sick of talking about, it sick of hearing about it. want the whole thing to go away. there are a lot of other people who want to talk about it and want him to resign. that's not going to happen and so far i don't think the case has been made that he needed to resign. what we've seen up until this point are good reasons to never elect somebody like this. what we're seeing today though could be reasons that go yond that, although i think the jury is still out. >> gene, clean up here. what's it all about? put it together as you editorialize here. what's the point? >> a couple points to make. number one, keep in mind that sanford's reputation is as a fiscal conservative. he's so cheap he makes staff use both sides of post-it notes, so the -- seriously. so the hypocrisy factor is huge here, right? to be taking the plane to get a haircut. second, if, as you recall, jenny sanford just moved out of the governor's mansion, and that

reminded me of something that happened actually in argentina when i was covering it, the place where sanford's lover lives. the president was a know tore cuss womanizer and his wife got sick of it and she kicked him out of the official residence. he had to live in an apartment until she went out of town on vacation and he was able to take back the official mansion. >> thank you for putting an international perspective on this. i don't know where to go with this. i'm going to let it die right here. cindi thank you for joining us. thank you, eugene robinson. up next, now we get back to where we belong. a poll of each state shows where obama stands right now. this is great stuff. he's doing better in some parts of the country than others, as you might expect, and worse in others. "hardball" back in a minute on msnbc. in the shower?

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make it your "mission" to click or call esurance today. we're back, time for "the politics fix" with jim vandehei and "chicago sun times" lynn sweet. i want to start with vandehei. both of you look at the polling. this is late under. i'd say take all of these numbers down about ten points. but look at the states where barack obama is enormously popular. hawaii, vermont, maryland, massachusetts, connecticut, new york, illinois. now let's take a look at the states where they don't like him

at all. this doesn't surprise you either. wyoming, alaska, idaho, utah, west virginia. jim, somebody said wherever people don't live, they don't like barack obama. >> or democrats. >> sparsely populated states, they don't like him. >> right, and that's been the case for some time if you look at polling that any states tends to be rural, tends to be in the west, does not like democrats. do not like obama as much as they do republicans. there weren't many surprises on there. i was surprised at colorado's favorable ratings for obama were so low. he spent a tremendous amount of time there during the campaign. democrats feel they have made a lot of progress in that state. but basically that poll breaks down with what you're seeing across the country. there's been a big swing against barack obama and that is very troublesome to the folks in the white house. that's why you see them kicking in this political operation into

full gear trying to win not only the health care debate over the august recess but also sort of the debate about barack obama and his presidency to date. >> let's take a look at the map and show where it stands. by the way, without hanging any crepe here, jim, i think you're hanging some crepe here, let's just do this. let's assume based on the polling its about ten points lower in each state. look at this across the board because that's what's happened here. look at the map. i want to get into the differentiation of people's attitudes. we're looking at a map that shows the red part of the states, basically the plains states, texas, oklahoma, louisiana. no surprises. the east and west, new england states and california, very blue or white, which is close to blue in these areas. what is this about the country? it seems to me we're going to see an election next november even that reflects the national map that hasn't changed much since i was a kid. there's not much change. lynn? >> this thing, yes, you're right, the thing to look at

though on this map, it still mean that is obama has the coalition of states together that he needs to help win in a re-election if we're looking down the road, and it also shows which i'm not surprised at, that the states on the coasts are most supportive of him. the popularity is one thing, the job approval is another. i think as he goes ahead, you know, as was just mentioned, in order to have the white house get really worried, i think you'd have to see his likability go down drastically. as well as have a problem with job approval. he could tabling one hit, he couldn't take two. right now, his personal ratings are still doing relatively okay. >> you know, jim, when i look at this movement and where you hear the most noise and anger about his very legitimacy. there's an ethnic piece to it, there's a geographic piece to it, it's centered in the south. >> absolutely. what the polling results don't

show, i think is emphatically. is that the republican party is still very much dominated by the south. if you look at obama's victory and sort of obama's proposition that he can change the democratic party and change politics in general, is that he can change things that are north of the south. he can change things in the midwest and take states like ohio, pennsylvania, colorado, places that have been up and down in the last decade of politics and make them solidly democratic. that would be the big achievement. that would be where you would have the big realignment in politics. it's not at all clear that you would have that ever after six months. you'd have to check back in two years to see if he is truly making progress in those swing states. >> lynn, you can also see from the republican party's opportunity coming up next year, they don't have who to change people's minds ideologically, you can still be a democrat and vote for a new governor in massachusetts, which is very likely. a new governor in new jersey,

which is a republican state. i can see republicans winning in states where the democrats still rule ideologically. >> absolutely. one of the reasons the town halls are getting so worried about the insiders, if you have a shaky member, someone you're afraid could lose their nerve, they know people will be crossover voters. >> and know what, people will end up voting against their normal pattern, to stick a message to the other side? >> could well be. and that people in these states, even though -- there's no such thing as a forever permanently solid state. an illinois with the senate race there, there's worry among the national democrats, that it will be a tougher sell than they thought. >> i'll give you a couple of states that aren't going did to change. utah is not going to start electing democratic senators again and new york is not going the other way. just guessing. we had a civilized discussion on the show tonight. but it's not civilized with hardball.

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we're back with jim vandehei and lynn sweet, with more on politics. let's look at what governor palin said over the weekend. a couple of different shots on this. first in her facebook on friday, quote, the america i know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with down syndrome will have to stand in front of obama's death panel so his bureaucrats can decide based on a subjective judgment of their level of productivity in society, whether they're worthy of health care. such a system is downright evil. that's what ex-governor palin

wrote. and apparently on sunday, a modification. we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment. lynn, i don't know what she's up to. it gets topsy-turvy with the ex-governor in one little message to the world she says there's death panels out there. in the next panel, she says, let's get civil. >> first, there are no death panels being proposed by anyone. there is some end of life counseling in the medicare provision and the house version of the bill. that might be the origins of what she's talking about. this takes on a life of is own, chris. i think she was probably wise to having a more tempered statement on her second go on it, because otherwise she would have no leg to stand on in this one. >> but, jim, the whackos out there, i should say the