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this hour on "the big picture" in the health care debate president obama unleashes his passions and hammers the insurance industry. >> because right now we have a health care system that too often works better for the insurance industry than it does for the american people. >> outside protester included one man with a gun strapped to his leg. meanwhile, at other town halls across the country today, lawmakers again saw the emotions face to face. >> you want to leave, leave. pluz plus, amazing new pictures from the typhoon in asia. a live update on the humanitarian crisis as the search for survivors continues.

later, the rhetoric of rush limbaugh. >> the people who are the closest and bear the most striking resemble to the policies of nazis is the democratic party. >> as a republican senator now condemns sarah palin calling her nuts. >> and hillary clinton's sharp words. >> you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state, i am. >> call it a case of lost in translation. all that and more this hour on msnbc. wow. big moments there. good afternoon to you. i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> i'm david shuster live in washington. tamron, nothing stirs voter passions quite like a villain. in our big picture this hour, president obama and his health care reform supporters are trying to put the spotlight on what they call the evils of the for-profit health insurance industry. today at a town hall in new hampshire mr. obama painted the

industry in the most sinister fashion to date. >> because right now we have a health care system that too often works better for the insurance industry than it does for the american people. i don't believe anyone should be in charge of your health insurance decisions but you and your doctor. i don't think government bureaucrats should be meddling, but i also don't think insurance company bureaucrats should be meddling. that's the health care system i believe in. >> the president noted that as things stand right now, any american could suddenly be denied coverage after filing expensive claims. others he noted are routinely turned away from new coverage if they have pre-existing conditions. the president said reform would change the insurance industry practices. >> they will not be able to drop your coverage if you get sick. they will not be able to water down your coverage when you need it. your health insurance should be there for you when it counts,

not just when you're paying premiums. >> as passionate as the president was today, some conservatives are just as passionate in their belief that the president is somehow promoting socialism. most of the chaos stayed outside of the president's town hall, but still one protester even showed up with a gun strapped to his leg. under new hampshire law he was allowed to have it since he was on private property, the grounds of a church. nbc's ron allen is traveling with the president. he's live in portsmouth, new hampshire. what is disturbing for a lot people is that man's protest sign said the tree of liberty needs watering. what did officials do about it and paint the scene for us today. >> reporter: well, david, the man was under surveillance for the entire time he was here. the police were well-aware of him, the secret service was in the loop, and they decided that he was harmless, that he was being cooperative, and they basically let him do what he

wanted to do. by my guess he was about 100 yards or so from the entrance to the auditorium here where the president spoke, and the presidented behind the building. the man was under surveillance and deemed harmless. he was well within his rights to be on public property or private property with a nine millimeter weapon strapped to his leg. he never threatened the president, he never said anything threatening and that's what it was. for the most part the protests were very peaceful. they were peaceful. on either side of the streets there were people for and against the administration, they were divided by a street and nobody crossed over. they were noisy, it was festive, there were some african drums in the background which gave it an interesting flair, but for the most part people coming out of the event said they enjoyed seeing the president. i don't know if he changed any

minds. most people came for more information. nobody walked out of here saying, you know, i now am for it or i am now against it. it's part of a process. remember, for the administration, it is the first of three events out in montana and colorado later this week, and it's a process that they're trying to again somewhat uphill battle because again they wanted this done by now. they didn't want to have this battle going on in august, but it's still in full swing. david? >> drums on the outside of the town hall. nbc's ron allen. ron, thanks for the report. and by the way, that protester with a gun that we mentioned, his name is william costrick. he will be a guest on "hardball" tonight with chris matthews. it's coming up one hour from now. -n how is the insurance industry responding to attacks from the democrats. today is not the first day the presidents a accused the industry. he once accused insurers of

abuses and record profits. nancy pelosi called them, quote, villains. a democratic organization is accusing the insurance industry of, quote, stirring up fear with false rumors. the head of a group that represents insurance companies says democratic lawmakers are not helping their case by vilifying the insurance industry. they say members of congress will come back to washington without a strong sense that health care reform is doable, and that would be a lost opportunity. we think health care reform is going to be won or lost in august. that's from karen ignagni and robert zerkelbach, i hope i got your last name right, thank you for joining us sir. >> you did. >> you got the president in new hampshire. the stats are 89% of the people in that state have insurance. so the president obviously knowing that territory also knowing that so many people going to the doctor's office and they feel they have no control even when they have insurance.

>> yeah, thank you again for having me on, and what's often getting missed in this discussion is the fact that our industry a year ago stepped up and offered the very insurance market reforms and consumer protections we're talking about today. we said that everybody should be guaranteed coverage for pre-existing conditions. that nobody should be locked out of the system or have their premiums increased because of their health status. we need to have a personal coverage requirement to get everybody into the system. this is something we're committed to. we're hoping this discussion in august will help us focus on solutions. that's what the american people want us to talk about, what we can do to make the health care system work better. >> if that's the case how do you feel when you hear the president and the speaker of the house using the word villains when talking about the health care industry? >> that kind of rhetoric is not productive and is not what the american people are looking for. the american people want us to focus on solutions. the same rhetoric that hasn't worked in the past is not going

to get anybody covered. it won't get us closer to getting health care costs under control. what we're focusing on is what we can do it address the concerns we heard from the american people. we went on a listening tour last year, we sat down with the uninsured, with families, with the union reps across the country to hear what their concerns and priorities were, and we've been focusing on for the past year developing solutions that will address that. >> those solutions do not include endorsing the public options. the for-profit insurance company are terrified if there's a public option people will leave the insurance companies and go to the government plan and you will lose profits. >> we do not support a government-run insurance plan, but consumers, employers -- >> right because it will cut into your profits, right? it will cut into your business model. it will cut into profits if there's a government-run plan and that's cheaper for consumers, they will leave your plans and you guys will be left with lower profits. >> what it's going to mean is there are people who aren't going to be able to keep the

coverage they currently have and like. it's going to mean hospitals across the country won't be able to keep their doors open and it's going to add significant liabilities to the federal budget. those are the types of concerns that people are raising and that the stake holder community is raising. that's why we're seeing such a focus. >> to be clear, it only adds significant liabilities if it's not paid for. all the plans would pay for the public option. we have to be clear about that in the debate. >> what we're talking about here is the way the government-run plan would save money is they simply dictate the price that is they pay for services. right now medicare only reimburses hospitals about 85% of their costs. its employees and families that are paying $1,500 a year in higher premiums to subsidize the program. >> out of all the premiums paid, almost 47% according to a university of minnesota study goes to the private health insurance companies known as loading fees. in other words, your paperwork, your marketing, your profits eat up nearly 50 cents of every dollar that americans kick in. that's one of the reasons why people are trying to change it, because they feel your industry

is not entitled to take the money we give and put it in your pocket. >> the government data simply doesn't back that up. if you look at all that money we spent on health care in this country, less than one penny for every dollar of national health expenditures goes to health plan profits. administrative costs in total are only 12% and that includes investments -- >> we're almost out of time here. would you describe what people are getting now as fair and affordable health care? >> the status quo is broken and needs to be fixed which is why three years ago we said we need to fix health care and we offered a proposal -- >> why do so many people feel they have not gotten the memo if that was happening? >> unfortunately, it's politics and political rhetoric driving this debate. there's an effort to shift the debate to focus on health insurers rather than solutions. >> do you think any of the criticism is fair? >> no, because it completely ignores all of the work that our industry has been doing to come to the table, to step up and do our part to help make this happen. >> all right, robert. it's a pleasure. thank you very much for coming on. we know it's a hot topic.

passions are high and it's great to hear from both sides. thank you, robert. i almost called him david, david. >> robert is very good at what he does and he's a great face for the health care insurance industry, but the fact of the matter is the health care insurance industry, they do not want a public option, the president does. >> also the big clash is when you have any side not wanting to take responsibility for a system that everyone agrees is broken, you can't say it was all the other side of the dialogue. >> absolutely. >> have a question about the president's plan to reform health care? you can send your question to us. we'll do our best to get an answer for you from a credible source go. to twitter.msnbc.com or we've got a new facebook page. just search tamron hall and david shuster and we'll get that to you. another major story we are fouling. at least 70 people are dead and hundreds missing after a powerful typhoon slammed into taiwan and then battered china's east coast. in taiwan military helicopters have been rescuing villagers

from remote xhubts hit by massive flooding and mudslides. the typhoon jumped as much as 80 inches of rain and compounding the tragedy, a helicopter crashed into a mountain during a rescue mission. the pictures are simply breathtaking, bridges washed away, homes toppled, hundreds of people may have been buried alive by some of the mudslides. in china officials say flooding and mudslides damaged or destroyed more than 10,000 homes. 1.5 million people have been forced to evacuate. joining us is albert yew from world vision. how bad is it? what is the situation like that you're hearing about? >> right now definitely a race against time. the government are flying people to safety from the villages that have lost access to the aid and to roads and bridges, and the rest of the people by the hundreds, expected a couple thousand people still trapped in

the mountains. we're hearing they're looking for survivors and seeing more and more bodies lying or trapped in the mud. so we're expecting the body count to increase over the next short period. so it's definitely a race against time right now. >> albert, here in the united states the visual image of the typhoon has really become this hotel that essentially was toppled into the water because of a mudslide, and these incredible pictures of it crashing in. do you know anything particular about that hotel in taiwan, who was there, what village it was? >> well, what i do know is that no one was in the hotel at the time and there was ample warning for people to evacuate the area, evacuate that hotel, and i think because of the warnings, the death count has been relatively low up until the discovery that there were a lot of people trapped in the mountain.

the tie fon -- typhoon dropped record amounts of rain. >> albert yu, thank you. we appreciate it. >> the mark sanford travel scandal. a lawmaker who said the gop governor broke the law by jetting around on taxpayer dollars. plus a new look at hillary clinton's emotional comment about her husband. was she tired? did she let her guard down? or are we all just reading too much into it? and a lot of buzz today about 16-year-old miley cyrus. she's 16 and, yes, that is what has been described as a stripper pole with her at the teen choice awards. what is going on? you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. ♪ but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small,

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president obama's returning to andrews air force base. there's air force one. following his town hall this afternoon in portsmouth, new hampshire, where the president tried to put the focus on the evils of the for-profit health insurance industry. this as there were more protests across the country with conservatives legitimately ke l concerned about health care reform will change their own policies. in the meantime the state department is trying to clarify hillary clinton's curt response to a question that was apparently lost in tran translations. >> she was asked about president

obama's view. instead of asking her what president obama thinks, they asked what her husband thought of the deal and here was her response to it all. >> wait, you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state. i am. you ask my opinion, i will tell you my opinion. i'm not going to be channeling my husband. >> well, state department spokesman p.j. crowley today said she was responding to the question as it was posed to her in the english translation and that she was perhaps angered by the hint of show vannism. let's bring in a.b. stoddard. i understand secretary clinton went to that person and talked to them after to explain why she was curt. she is tough and her body language was awesome because she thought it was a chauvinist

question and she was taking a stance. she is the secretary of state. >> this is true. this is fascinating at so many levels, tamron. we rarely see her like this. she's very controlled, especially in her public appearances, especially when she's challenged about her primary race with barack obama, her husband's role in her entire career. this is a job she earned on her own merit, but i think this is so interesting because this reaction i think was -- came because of her husband going to north korea. i don't think we would have seen something -- >> really? >> yes. he was requested. if this goes badly and we see provocation from the north koreans, she and her husband and president obama will be blamed for using him, letting him go over there in that role. if it is a success, i imagine that bill clinton will be requested again and possibly used again, and i think that you see some defensiveness on her part.

>> you think if the north korea thing had not happened, do you think she would not have been as aggressive in defending her presence as a woman in a country, in a part of the world that women don't often have the kind of power that she has? >> this might have played -- that might have played into it, the setting and context, i'm not taking away from that, but i have never seen her react that way when asked about her husband. remember, she ran for president. she thinks that she is his equal, and i think that this was -- you know, the mission to north korea was fraught with many layers of intrigue and tension. president obama was not asked to go. hillary clinton was not asked to go. and al gore, former vice president, was not asked to go. they wanted bill clinton. he succeeded in getting those women home, and as i said, i think if it turns out to be considered a success, i imagine he will be asked for again and he might be used and dispatched again. and i think it's fraught on many

levels. she has earned this job, but i have never seen her respond that aggressively. >> we're almost out of time. some people have accused her of not being diplomatic. is there any validity? >> she did sort of lose her cool a little bit. i don't think anyone hurled an offensive accusation at here. i understand why that ruffles people's feathers, especially when they're on jet lag, but normally hillary rodham clinton is the picture of composure. she's a very controlled person. i was surprised. >> it was a surprising reaction for her. >> when she touched her body and pointed at herself, it was totally a "godfather" move. totally tony soprano. you are definitely saying something even if you don't say a word. >> and to take that further, tam r

ron, i think we know which congo translator will have the head of the horse in his or her bed, never mind being fired. >> oh, well. >> anyway. coming up, new details about the controversial firings of u.s. attorneys during the bush administration. transcripts show karl rove and other top aides were much more involved than previous thought. but first, away they go. if only service was this fast. that and some other stories that made us say -- are making us say no way today after the break. since arthur's been eating purina one, he has blossomed... into an incredibly strong, healthy cat. his coat is incredibly shiny and soft and very thick. everybody thinks he's the most handsome cat they've ever seen. [ woman announcing ] purina one for indoor cats... unlocks the brilliance of nature... with a natural fiber blend that helps minimize hairballs... and maintain a healthy weight.

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that race around jerusalem in an effort to win a place at the international waiter's race. if you're waiting on tables isn't hard enough, contestants had to carry a wine bottle, wine glass, and several plates of food on a tray while they race down the street. if you're looking for the best bartenders on earth, look no further than the world cocktail competition. more than 100 competitors from 52 countries were in berlin yesterday to compete in two categories. contestants were not only judged on taste but on flair as well. bartenders had to miss their signature cocktail during a five minute routine set to music. >> we should include rachel maddow in that. she's a great bartender. and i think this is the scandal of the day. one of disney's biggest stars continues to push the envelope as she moves from being the squeaky clean hannah montana to the grown-up miley cyrus.

check out the risque performance at the teen choice awards. tmz talk is back. this is myiley cyrus. this is the teen choice awards. people are talking about t it's on twitter, trending topics, teen choice awards at the top of the list. you look at goggle, it's one of the hot topics out there, and it's supposed to be an ice cream truck but, you know -- >> i don't think that's an ice cream truck. maybe the producers know what teenagers, especially boys, want to see miley cyrus do. but it's sickening as well what it does to your culture and our kids. it's horrendous. >> especially when you have the pictures of her in "vanity fair" and they tried to explain that away. how much money do you need? some money you don't want, my

mother always says. >> speaking of money, tamron, coming up, mark sanford travel scandal. did he break the law by jetting around a government plane? >> i love that transition. speaking of money. plus, you just knew he was a big elvis fan, right? we knew this. well, blago karaoke. we have it on "the big picture." this is video of him. he was governor elected twice. ♪ ecome... less able to absorb calcium. he recommended citracal. it's a different kind of calcium. calcium citrate. with vitamin d... for unsurpassed absorption, to nourish your bones. every day special. fancy feast introduces an entirely new way to celebrate any moment. fancy feast appetizers. simple high quality ingredients like wild alaskan salmon, white meat chicken,

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i'm sharon epperson with your cnbc market wrap. stocks went negative on wall street today. the dow lost 96 points. the s&p 500 down 12 points and the nasdaq dropped 22 points. citigroup says it approved $6 billion in new lending initiatives in the second quarter. the programs are supported by

money the bank received as part of the government bailout. y pit grothey will lend up to $ billion to mortgage originator. dartmouth college is topping one list that pays off. pay scale 2009 college report shows the grads lead the country in pay. they have an average of $129,000. mism that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. back to msnbc. welcome back, everyone. i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> and i'm david shuster live in washington. >> and, david, i have this hot note that just came in to us regarding senator chris dodd. he underwent prostate surgery today for early stage of prostate cancer. the surgery was a success, and senator dodd they say is doing well. he's going to remain in the

hospital for a few days. after a brief recuperation at home with his family, he's looking forward to getting back to work later this month on behalf of the people of connecticut. we're just getting word that senator dodd did undergo surgery today to treat early stage prostate cancer. he's doing well and he's looking forward to getting back to work after the recess. tamron, in the big picture right now, the growing saga involving south carolina republican governor mark sanford. the governor held a meeting with his cabinet this morning as democrats demanded an investigation into the governor's use of state aircraft to attend his kids' sports games and even get a haircut. here is what governor sanford said about that after the meeting. >> all of a sudden folks are saying, wait a minute, you took this, though that's been going on for 20 years. i'd say at some level there is a double standard, and if -- with all due respect, if they were

s serious about the inquiry in terms of understanding where the administration is, you'd think at some point they'd pick up the phone and call the office. >> democrats aren't the only ones demanding some answers. in "the bigger picture" the senator mentioned by governor sanford is republican david thomas and he's calling for impeach. he says sanford broke the law by spending more than $13,000 in taxpayer money to fly business class to london and china and charges sanford's office called a blatant outrage. state senator david thomas joins us on the phone. thank you for joining us. >> i appreciate you letting me come on. >> you're calling for impeachment. what is the next step here beyond the verbal back and forth we're hearing here? >> well, i chair a committee that is the subcommittee that has oversight of the governor's office that's part of the finance committee. so i just want to establish, first of all, this is not something i just sort of started

up. it was more or less laid in my lap. what i have done is tried basically to confirm certain assertions had been made concerning the governor's activities. we've got, for instance, one of the assertions, a code section that says a part of the law, the regulations, it says you have to travel if you're an official of the state by the most economical means. that's tourist class. two instances he didn't fly that way and there was no compensation made to the state relative to that. it cost an additional $13,000 plus. now, thises a sma is a small pa. there was an extensive article about misuse of state aircraft. it's not just one issue. it's the totality of everything that we're seeing that what i'm saying is that i am preparing information that authenticates this information, make sure that members of the legislature have

it in terms of exhibits so if they, the house, because it has to originate in the house, impeachment proceedings, if the house wants to proceed, then they have the wherewithal to do it and i'm submitting this information to ranking members of the senate so everybody is aware -- it's not just in the media. that is, we are looking at it from a committee perspective. >> state senator thomas, i mean it's interesting to hear democrats complain, even more so to hear you, a republican, to try to start impeach am. h how do your fellow republicans feel about that? which of you republicans will go to him and tell him you want him to resign? >> he's already been approached by many of us and told in no uncertain terms he should resign this. governor is going to stay right where he was. he brought disrepute on himself, he embarrassed the state, he

made himself infective and the problem is there are just many, many questions that revolve around everything that has happened. the reputation of the state is at stake here. now, we do not want to see -- there are many of us who do not want to see when we go back in the legislative session, david, this particular issue dominate the entire session and become a political football because we're going into a gubernatorial election the following november, and if this dominates the session, calls by the democrats for impeachment, that simply will tie up the session, cause chaos, and i think it's much better and wiser even though many republicans want me just to be quiet, i'm sorry, i'm chairman of this committee, i have to do what's laid on my plate here, and frankly, we need to deal with the issue this fall j thank you so much, south carolina state senator david thomas. this is certainly one of those to be continued stories. >> such an interesting one. we'll keep track of it. we do have some breaking news about the controversial u.s. attorney firings during the

bush administration. some newly released white house e-mails show that former bush adviser karl rove was deeply involved. the documents show extensive communication between rove and former bush counsel harriet miers specifically about the ousting of david ig ig laceous. we know karl rove has already testified to congress once. he will testify again. what do we know about these documents and e-mails. how do they move the ball forward? >> they show he was more interested and more involved in discussions about this than we had first been led to believe. a lot of this involves some of his deputies, too. an e-mail from june 28th surfaced in which his deputy scott jennings wrote to another associate, quote, i would really like to move forward with getting rid of david, the u.s. attorney in new mexico. jennings said he heard that morning from members of congress who are really angry over

iglasiglas iglasias' lack of action on voter fraud. white house counsel harriet meier wrote, quote, i believe the decision is to let his four years run out and then appoint someone else if this was the right case. what we don't have here, david, is anything new documenting, no e-mails or documents showing any kind of communication from the white house to the justice department saying get rid of david igelasisas. but there was discussion a between miers and mcnaulty in which she told them there was dissatisfaction and she said in her interview with the committee he may, meaning rove, he may have well said that he wanted david removed from office but

she said she didn't remember. committee staffers say harriet miers when she was questioned said i don't remember something like 150 times. so this doesn't change i don't think the broad framework here, but it is adding in new detail. >> pete williams, justice correspondent for nbc news. thanks for the update. up next, rush limbaugh comparing democrats to nazis. >> does rush really believe what he says, and is he poisoning the national debate? that's ahead on msnbc. mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help? yeah. i'll contact emergency services and stay with you. you okay? yeah.

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familiar ron it was a republican named lincoln who said a house divided cannot stand. >> in today's "face-off" the republican party has become in some people's opinion a circular firing squad. consider this latest skirmish when conservative pundit michelle maukin was asked which right wing commentator needs to shut up. she said meghan mccain. so mccain, daughter of senator john mccain fired back with this one. quote, she rounds out the trifecta of extreme female conservative pundits followed laura ingraham and ann coulter who believe that i, and

republicans like me need to shut up and get out of the party. if they think they can bully me into giving up this fight, they are going to be severely disappointed. mo is the former spokesperson for hillary clinton and lenny is a former strategist. let me get your thoughts on this. we've got this back and forth going on here. what's going on in the party? >> i think what's going on around the country is that it's august. a better question might be what's going on in the democratic party with pelosi calling protesters un-american. look, it's silly on all sides, but i will say this, six months ago it would be okay to ask whether or not the republican party has a lot of ground to cover. but the truth is the republicans are beating generics -- democrats in the generic ballot. the president is having a hard time rallies the left -- >> but bringing up the democrats, i don't think we have a recent quote of a democrat

telling another to shut up. michelle, a conservative, was asked. she could have said no one, we all have a voice. we all deserve an opportunity to come to the table and speak. instead of saying that, she said meghan mccain. >> in all fairness to meghan mccain and michelle, they're not in the business of electing republicans and bringing people together. that's one of the things that i do, and i can tell you the smart people in the room when it comes down to issues like this realize that these are distractions and side shows. they're really irrelevant. they have nothing to do with what's happening right now. and what's happening right now is the president is losing support egregiously on health care. and that's a problem for democrat. >> one person who is very relevant is rush limbaugh. mo, i will let you respond to this. rush limbaugh continues to compare the president and house speaker nancy pelosi to nazis. what is rush's gain here? what is he trying to accomplish? >> rush limbaugh is a run of the

mill shock jock. that's what he is. he's an entertainer out there trying to drive up ratings for his radio program. when he says outrageous things and gets coverage, he accomplishes his goal. you know, there's thousands of shock jocks around the country. they're pretty irrelevant to the national dialogue. here is where rush is different though. rush is very relevant because the leadership of the republican party keep deferring to him, and they keep apologizing for him, and they keep apologizing to him, and i think this feeds into this broader discussion we're having here about a lack of direction in the republican party. as long as they keep allowing these divisive voices to dictate their image, they're in real trouble. >> we'll let you weigh in on whether or not you want to condemn here. would you like to take this opportunity to condemn rush limbaugh in that when rush limbaugh compares president obama to adolf hitler and the democrat party to the nazi party, would you like to take this opportunity to tell rush limbaugh that he's wrong? >> i condemn anybody who

compares anybody to hitler or brings a nazi-related rhetoric into a public discussion. neither side should be doing it. i think it's wrong for america, but the reality is both sides are heated on the right and the left. but the truth is to say that the republican party is not united in a week when the liberal left has single handedly made it difficult for this president to push through his signature issue seems misguided to me. >> there's a difference though. when the democrats have differences on issues, they have come together and they have worked them out. when the house leadership and the blue dogs differed on some of the details of health care, they got together and they came up with a compromise. when the republicans and those on the right disagree with one another, they're splitting apart and telling each other to get out of the way. >> john fodesta said it past. a clinton democrat, say the biggest problem the democrats have, not the republicans, the

liberal democrats. >> that may be true and there may be a divide between the liberals and the centrist democrats but at least they're both trying to have a constructive conversation. >> what's constructive about calling protesters un-american? >> she didn't call them un-american. she called the tactics of not allowing a debate and a discussion un-american. >> okay. what is constructive about lincoln saying that protesters were un-american. >> well, i'm not familiar with that quote but i'm pretty sure -- >> check it out. >> they're referring to the fact when you're not allowed to have a discussion like we're having right now, yes, that is un-american. when you shout people down and you don't allow a debate or discussion and you simply intimidate people, yes, i think that's what the democrats are referring to. >> to quickly add to it, when we saw the protesters with these people with signs saying socialism, communism, we've not seen a lot of conservative leaders try to answer or clarify or help these people who are equating this argument. we have seen a lot of criticism, but the natural health of a

productive conversation. there was a woman on today who said the reason why she's against health care reform is because she doesn't want her daughter to ask her one day why do i have to stand in line for toilet paper? >> sure. i think the reality is, i respect both of you, but i don't remember last time tamron or david that you had me on to comment on protesters calling president bush a nazi and code pink disrupting public events and unions busting in on public events on behalf of the democrats. both sides do it. it's not right, but there are bigger issues in america, and right now the president and the democrats are on the defense on their signature issue, and the republicans have ideas, and it's going to be an interesting summer. >> yeah, it is. >> lenny and mo, thank you very much. lenny, i particularly salute your courage in condemning rush limbaugh. you will be his target tomorrow. we appreciate you coming on and talking about that. still ahead, we have such a packed show, but there are some more things, stay right there, we think you should know about. >> that's right. sandra day o'connor has a new

gig and blago does his best elvis impersonation. and then an "hardball" chris matthews talks to the protester who brought a gun to president obama's town hall meeting today. that's minutes away only on mx. bicycle, i've missed you. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ . have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. at legalzoom, we'll help you incorporate your business, file a patent, make a will and more. you can complete our online questions in minutes. then we'll prepare your legal documents and deliver them directly to you. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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there is a lot going on today. here are a few more things we thought you should know. >> sandra day o'connor stepped down from the supreme court in 2006 but she still rules literally. she has been subbing on federal appellate courts across the

country filling if for judges when they have time off. she retired in 2006 to care for her ailing husband. she has alzheimer's. >> it's nice she's giving back to the judicial xhucommunity. just when you thought rod blagojevich couldn't do anything else to embarrass himself, there's this. ♪ baby, be polite you're going to make me sore if you don't treat me right ♪ >> that was posted on youtube. it shows the impeached illinois governor doing his best elvis impression at a street party in chicago. would blagojevich make a good elvis impersonator? >> no. but you know those people with him, were they laughing at him or laughing with him? you always got to stop when you're doing something really silly like that and say are they laughing with me or laughing at me? >> i have a feeling they were laughing at him and saying this guy is going to