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♪ you'll have to deal with pressure ♪ you want to be let out of here, you're welcome to go. now wait a minute -- now wait a

minute -- now wait a minute -- now wait a minute -- wait a minute. wait a minute. >> i have every right -- >> wait a minute. wait a minute. he has a right to leave. he's right. >> it is my constitutional right. one day god is going to stand before you and he's going to judge you and the rest of your cronies up on the hill. >> all right. hey, welcome to "morning joe." it's morning in america. mika brzezinski with us. >> it's great to be a politician. >> pat buchanan in d.c. >> hi, pat. >> willie geist up in new york. mika, as you know, i twitter all the time -- >> right. >> and you have these people, this is the worst thing -- you know, buchanan and i and anybody

else who's been out on the campaign, especially '93 and '94, we see those people all the time. i saw those people all the time in town hall meetings. they would sit there, scream and yell, you just listen to them. this has turned into such theater town. the people upset at the town hall meeting knows the cameras are on them. the democrats are saying, wait, let's try to make these people look like rabid dogs that want to blow up the world and republicans -- i saw a talk show i'll talk about last night where conservatives are ginning this up. i would say in 1800 thomas jefferson and james adams faced pretty hostile crowds. >> it's hurting the health care reform effort. it is. >> what i'm saying -- what do you mean by that? >> i think it's been very

difficult for the white house to get their message out. you're hearing from these people. they're getting their airtime. there is misinformation out there instead of a really good conversation about whether or not it's productive. >> mika, there's always misinformation. you know, what's amazing in 1995, not to just dive right into a debate, but in 1995 we, republicans, took over congress. the medicare trustees said medicare was going bankrupt. you know what we proposed to save medicare? the same slowing of the rate of growth bill clinton proposed two years earlier. bill clinton demagogued that issue so shamelessly, saying we wanted to throw old people out in the streets. everybody in the media knew that was a lie. everybody in "the new york times," "the washington post," nbc, abc, cbs -- they knew bill clinton was lying. they knew he was demagoguing. we'd go to town hall meetings. we'd get savaged, and do you know what we did? we explained it. do you know what happened? it passed. do you know what happened when we ran for election? we got more votes, pat buchanan.

from senior citizens than the democrats demagoguing the issue but it was six months, it was ugly, the government was shut down. bill clinton was shameless, his white house was shameless. democrats were shameless, pat. but you know what we knew? that's part of the system. you've got to work past the demagog demagoguery. now it's republicans, conservatives that are demagoguing, and i'm just sick and tired of hearing people act like this is the first time this has ever happened. it happens all the time. >> joe, take a look at my opening announcement in '96 in new hampshire. folks had come up from new york. they charged up on the stage, almost knocked my wife and sister off -- >> wow. >> i will tell you this, standing behind me were members of new hampshire. hubert humphrey back in 1968, he couldn't even go to a rally before his salt lake city speech, dump the hump, they were shouting him down. lbj had to go to military bases

as did richard nixon in those years. this is nothing new. spector handled it very well. >> i felt bad for him. >> and i know we have to do news. i have to say, this is important for americans to realize. there are a lot of people who did get involved for the first time with barack obama. they have seen the press, adore this man over the past two years and this has to be very shocking to them. but for politician that is have been around for 20 years, we've seen this time and time again, i had senior citizens screaming at me in 1995, know, how dare you take away my medicare. and you sit there, you listen to the yells, you let them yell themselves out and say, okay, you really want to hear what's happening here? democrats are going to have to do the same thing and they're sitting here panicking like this has never happened. buchanan -- and here's another thing, too. buchanan has not given a speech on a college campus in the past 30 or 40 years where he wasn't

shouted at, where people didn't throw salad dressing on his face. that's why people think this is horrible, this has never happened before. pat, that's just not the truth. >> very mild compared to a lot of teams we've had in our country especially the '60s. remember dan rostenkowski? all the seniors chasing him. >> a democrat in '82 and also willie is going to love this, speaking of ginning up the base, glenn beck last night -- >> oh, yes. >> i don't usually watch glenn beck but i was at home and our baseball subscription stuff had been canceled so i was flipping around and i saw glenn beck. it is fascinating tv. what do you do when you talk and try to paint a left-wing conspiracy and three of your guests just stare at you? we're going to show you. >> oh, goody. we'll have dr. susan rice on today, claire mccaskill.

>> she was yelling yesterday, too. >> my goodness. did you see that? let's show everybody. it's my top story. >> when you're in the middle of a mob, never ask, do you trust me? >> don't do that. >> i never made that mistake. >> don't do that. >> unless you know the answer. >> we love claire. >> she didn't know the answer. >> time for a look at some of today's top stories. at least a dozen members of congress will hold town hall meetings in their home states following up on barack obama's trip to new hampshire on tuesday. speaking to a crowd of thousands, the president took on the issue of health care and what he calls scare tactics used to stifle the debate. >> the rumor that's been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the house of representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we have decided that we don't --

it's too expensive to let her live anymore. i am not in favor of that. so just i want to -- i want to clear the air here. >> let me just say really quickly -- >> yes? >> i was also flipping over 0, saw "hardball" and also "washington post" reporter said the only problem with this town hall meeting, and it went very well, was it was too staged. they should have let some people in that actually opposed him. >> engage. >> sure, a guy yells at you -- >> he can handle it. >> i'm all for it and buchanan is all for it, cynically setting up your audience, but they should have let a few people in to shout angry questions, let the audience boo him down. >> sure. >> that's great theater. >> the best thing the president could have had is someone say there's going to be death panels and he could have said, you know what, that is just ridiculous. >> he couldn't talk them through

it. >> exactly. >> that town hall you saw with the president was far more civil than those held by senators arlen specter and claire mccaskill who faced angry crowds in pennsylvania and missouri. >> as a 74-year-old man, if you develop cancer, we're pretty much going to write you off. because you're no longer a working citizen who will be paying taxes. >> good point. >> what are you going to do about it? >> you're just not right. nobody 74 is going to be written off because they have cancer. that's a vicious, malicious, untrue rumor. >> i don't understand its rudeness. what is this? i don't get it. i honestly don't get it. do you all think you're persuading people when you shout out like that? >> yeah! >> you don't trust me? >> no!

>> okay. you know, i don't know what else i can do. i don't know what else i can do. if you want me to go home -- >> wow. >> and then they dragged the lady out of there. >> we'll talk with senator mccaskill coming up later in the show. that, look, again, it was the president who needed to confront -- >> by the way, does that offend you, mika? >> what? >> what just happened there. >> no. >> it's american politics. that's american politics. and i'll tell you what, buchanan and i have taken much more than that, so have most senators and congressmen in america. this happens. it's politics. you know what else? they're stupid sometimes. yes, people come to town hall meetings that are just down-and-out stupid and angry and you educate them. >> who are we covering, specter? no, that's a rotten rumor. it's a good clash with specter. we're not covering obama

because, as you say, staged and be bored. >> and the president could have done it well. this is what he does well. >> the president can do it better than anybody. >> i have a good one here. >> is there an echo in the room here? >> i know. he can handle it, too. house democrats say newly released documents say karl rove played a critical role in the firing of the u.s. attorney in new mexico back in 2006. according to transcripts of closed door testimony roaf was agitated with the attorney for not pursuing specific cases favored by the white house. that is a quick look at the news. we do need to check weather. we're safe here in washington. >> that is -- if those rove cases are cases that involved political opponents, that is a serious problem. >> it's a big problem. i've been reading the front page of most of the newspapers, "the new york times" one is what i'm reading. it's pretty good. to bill karins for a check of the forecast. bill? good morning. we saw another hot day yesterday from d.c. to hartford. today the humidity is down a little bit.

the temperatures warm when you head out the door. 75 in new york and d.c. middle 60s right now from boston to hartford. we wake up to some clouds out there this morning. you don't need your umbrella now but later on this afternoon we will pop up, showers and thunderstorms. it's not going to be severe but there will be a few downpours and we'll call it mid to low 80s so it's a little cooler than the last couple of days. the rest of the country, the southea southeast, atlanta, charlotte, columbia, south carolina, you have a chance at some storms. hot once again in texas. getting warmer around minneapolis. anyone traveling to the west coast today, showers up there in seattle. the rest of the west coast is just fine and also tropical depression number two out in the atlantic should become tropical storm anna as we go throughout the day. i'm happy to report this one should stay out in the middle of the central atlantic. not a threat to any land areas at this time. back down to d.c. and my favorite guy, joe. >> you know, he's a lot less dangerous when he's in a little box there. unfortunately, which wiillie is

york and has to deal with bill karins there. willie what do we have coming up next? >> he started attacking my wife since you're not here. horrible, a horrible scene here. >> good lord. >> it's just awful. >> it's a competition. you both have great wives. >> my gosh, bill. bill. >> we have a big show this morning that will not include bill karins from here on out. coming out, obama foreign policy adviser dr. susan rice. as we mentioned senator claire mccaskill coming off that contentious town hall meeting. we'll get her reaction and in a few minutes nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell and donny deutsch right here in studio. plus, how vulnerable is our economy to toxic bank assets? there's a new warning from elizabeth warren, head of the group overseeing how t.a.r.p. money is being spent. plus, "washington post" business column list steven pearlstein and the longest tease in the history of television. a look at stories politico is working on this morning.

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♪ everybody was town hall fighting ♪ >> good song, classic. with us chief political correspondent for politico, mike allen. he has a look for us at the "morning playbook." good morning, mike. >> good morning, willie. >> were you out shouting at your congress person at a town hall yesterday, mike? be honest. >> we spend a lot of time shouting at the tv here at politico. >> good enough. >> but never at "morning joe." >> of course not. it's a good show. >> or "way too early," 5:30 a.m. you're doing a great job. >> your check's in the mail. apparently we have a new name to add to the list of contenders, one we hadn't thought about. >> contenders, rick santorum is

joining the parade to iowa. it has been a long parade, huckabee, jindal, pataki, ensign. they say they're going to build the party, senator santorum going october 21st -- october 1st, to do a right-to-life group. but if you're republican, if you're even semiwell known, the easiest way to get a headline is to go to iowa. >> if you had to handicap this race, it's way too handicap it but it's what we do. >> "way too early. ". >> thank you. who is the republican front-runner to be president? >> i think most people would say that governor romney has the biggest head start but, as you know the history of republican politics, both sides like having a head start isn't always necessarily where you want to be. when you're out front, folks are shooting you from the back.

>> mitt romney for now. back to these town hall meetings. there has been amazing video, screaming, fighting, pushing, shoving. the one congressman from texas, i understand, is actually canceling a trip to go back into the teeth of these town hall meetings. >> to get pushed and shoved a little bit. this is actually extremely wise. a democrat from texas, he was on one of these congressional delegation trips to the mediterranean. it was a pretty good itinerary, turkey, italy, greece. they have the spouses with them which means that you're not going into combat zones and he's pulled back to it and he told politico that he's going to go and do a couple town meetings. the only thing worse than being held at as you're being -- as we see in some of this video this morning, is being able to be portrayed as hiding from it and vanishing, disappearing, taking a mediterranean vacation so it's a tough dilemma.

the white house would be thrilled to have these town halls just go away. but they're not going to. they can't afford to take the risk. >> finally the presidential medal of freedom being handed out today. an interesting collection of people, mike. >> this is one of the most interesting days of the year at the white house. you get an amazing collection of americans who all come, who are all there in person. steven hawking is going to be there. we saw him in a restaurant yesterday. senator kennedy will accept it for him. reverend joseph lowry and an amazing tribute and they're all going to be in the east room today. >> we'll be watching for that. mike allen, thanks so much. we'll be checking out politico.com all day today. thanks, mike. up next, andrea mitchell joins us in a few minutes. plus, a look at the morning papers from around the country when we head back down to washington, d.c. and, after "morning joe," be sure to check us out on the radio. by us i mean joe and mika from 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern time.

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hillary clinton's in africa and bill clinton's in vegas, why is bill the one who woke up ten feet from a goat? that's what i want to know. >> i felt the same way. welcome back to "morning joe." >> and here we are. >> time to look at the morning papers. mika? >> the new york tiles, a lot of good articles on the front page. there one about karl rove i was telling you about, joe. the e-mails reveal his key role in the 2006 firings of u.s. attorneys. a two-year effort. a heated moment as senator arlen spect specter's town hall meeting. >> i think this helps him in philadelphia. i think it helps him among democrats that aren't sure whether they trust this guy or not. this is good for arlen specter politically, i think. >> you take a look at that photograph on the front page of "the new york times," you have this angry guy in his face and specter's facing the guy. you pay for publicity like that.

i mean, confronting people who are angry and asking you questions, well, specter he did it pretty badly the last time they were all yelling at him. he went right back in the arena. he comes off pretty well in these confrontations. >> that's what the president should have done. >> it's live tv. that's why we're covering it. >> and, again, a lot of people concerned -- even the president yesterday concerned that maybe it was too staged. he kept asking, want iing tough questions, and he never got it. "the washington post" shows a picture of the president's town hall meeting and the adoration was all around. obama faces scare tactics head-on. he certainly, though, didn't do that with his audience. it was -- couldn't have picked an audience better. >> he is good at handling situations off the cuff and making situations work for him. >> let's go back to your home

area when you got your start as a reporter. >> the same front page photo, a small sign of the health care resistance. >> and "the wall street journal," electricity, prices plummet. recession sends demand rates lower. consumers benefit after a year ago highs. >> atlanta journal constitution -- failed banks face review. georgia had more banks fail than any other state. we'll talk more about this and why toxic assets are still a very real problem with elizabeth warren from the congressional oversight panel. great timing to have her in. >> and really come back, mika, nbc's andrea mitchell helps us look at some of this morning's must-read opinion pages.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is just after 6:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. president obama is planning more town hall meetings in montana and colorado this week following up on his visit to new hampshire on tuesday. he'll likely keep up attacks on what the white house calls wild misrepresentations of his plan to reform the health care system. secretary of state hillary clinton is set to meet with the president of nigeria on the latest leg of her tour through africa. clinton is expected to continue her calls for better efforts to curb widespread corruption. and there are more signs aspirin can help head off potentially deadly conditions. patients who took the drug reduced their risk of death from

colon cancer by nearly 30%. >> wow. going back to hillary clinton story, i wonder what bill clinton thinks of hillary being in nigeria today. >> stop it. that's exactly -- andrea? >> andrea, what does bill clinton think of hillary being in nigeria? >> what we later discovered was where was bill clinton on monday night when she was losing it in con congo? las vegas at a birthday party. an early birthday party. >> i'm sure that that had nothing to do with her. >> terry mcauliffe, an energy conference. >> is that what they call them now? chris, go to a lot of conferences in las vegas. >> what happens in las vegas and the condo doesn't always stay in the congo and las vegas. >> there was a piece on hillary and her defensive response to a question she thought was about her husband. i still kind of feel her pain,

to use bill's term. >> it's also unfortunate for the secretary of state that she was on a mission that no secretary of state has ever tried to do before, to go into eastern congo, still war torn, to go to these refugee camps and hospitals, to visit these women. one woman eight months pregnant had been gang raped and these women are destroyed, their lives are destroyed. we're talking about hundreds of thousands of women and now men are being raped as part of this revenge violence and some of is by the government's own forces. >> and the thing is, buchanan and i here, as you will remember, we were defending hillary. >> you had her back. >> i really like hillary clinton an awful lot. at the same time i'm just so surprised she let that side of her show. she is so disciplined. >> okay. you heard what andrea just said. here she is working on -- >> you are secretary of state. come on. i understand.

i understand. >> do you remember when jim baker lost it while testifying about israel? baker absolutely lost it back in '91 or '92 about israel where they were expanding sell settlements. the then-bush administration, bush 41, administration didn't like and he's testifying and he said if israel wants to call me, they can call me. the number is 202-456-1414, the white house number. so people snap sometimes. that was more calibrated snap. >> you're right. she had a two-week tour in africa -- >> fighting the biggest problem in the world. >> they remember that little thing where she's miffed and partly miffed, i think, because of the north korean thing. bill went over there and scooped off the cream and came back with these two hostages at the same time she's being insulted by the north koreans as a schoolgirl. >> exactly. >> you have all those things weighing on her and then that question comes in but, you're right, you have to be disciplined 100% of the time.

when these folks go out there, i don't know why they do it, all these tv appearances by secretary of states. kissinger didn't do those things when he traveled. >> the first week alone there were 22 speeches. and now this is the second week. >> i think she's doing a remarkable job as secretary of state. i think she's the right person at the right time. i'm just surprised t. again, this story surprises me for one reason and one reason only because hillary clinton, i think, has shown more discipline than any public figure and i don't mean this as an insult, since nixon, somebody that got kicked around, just lied about, beaten up day in and day out and hillary always kept going. >> but, see, i kind of liked it. i liked hearing her say, you know what? hello? it's about me. i'm secretary of state and take a look at the work i'm doing. stop it. i just think finally it's good to hear. >> and when she teared up, remember, in new hampshire, she won new hampshire.

>> exactly where there was a town hall meeting yesterday. >> overstating how negative that might be. let's get to the must-read op-eds. sarah palin was right the second time. we do need to turn down the rhetorical heat lest we miss important issues in the proposed house health care bill. unfortunately, palin's more thoughtful comments followed a made for the tabloids facebook post suggesting that under president obama's health care reform a death panel would kill her elderly parents and her down's syndrome baby. now that the world is chasing hyperbole we risk overlooking troublesome language in the house health bill, 1233 of h.r. 3200. for purposes of civil discourse, let's assume that no one wants to kill off old people. just as airline pilots have a primary interest in safely landing planes, even nancy pelosi, harry reid and barack

obama will be elderly some day. >> pat buchanan, i wanted to ask you because sarah palin -- you've followed sarah palin's ark closely. again, something that sarah palin is not helping herself here, talking about these death panels, about how barack obama's plan could lead to the death of little trig. that's not helpful to her on the cause, is it? >> it's not only tough, it is impossible to defend. it's got nothing to do 0 with children. there have been good, frankly, good columns that end of life thing, these professional physician counselors. charles lane had one i think it was saturday in "the washington post" which i thought was excellent and there's no doubt that, look, they are going to cut back benefits, prescription drugs, things like that to some extent for the elderly because all the expenses come in the last six months of life and these are going to have to be cut back. that's what you're seeing that

lady, a 74-year-old cancer patient, you're seeing all that concern. that's one of the driving forces, parents and about they, themselves. >> a provision co-sponsored by a republican or more than one republican and basically it's say to go doctors, family practitioners, internal medicine practitioners that they can be reimbursed because in busy practices they may not take the time to have that counseling session if it's something that they would have to schedule that would not be paid back by the government. saying that you can get reimbursements every five years, voluntarily if somebody takes the time, your doctor, to tell you, well, do you want a living will? do you want to do organ donations? and do you want to think about what your options are? >> but it brings in the problem as lane pointed out of the moral pressure. you have some woman 75, 80 years old, living alone, saying we're going to cut back this, cut back that and then somebody shows up

and one of his main concerns is cutting costs. >> the thing is the republicans, mika, have not really gotten out there yet. >> if you look at kathleen's piece here, the one thing really important, and we talked about this on the radio yesterday. she said radical reformers could only dream of such helpful enemies. i think the helpful enemies now are on the right. they should just hang back and as we discussed on the radio let the democrats -- they're kind of making their own problems, don't you think? >> what's fascinating about this entire debate and the angry e-mails i get from liberals and the angry tweets that i see every day from liberals, what's so amazing about this is this is a democratic town. democrats own the white house. democrats have a filibuster proof senate majority. democrats own the house of representatives. if this bill is not selling through, it's not because barack

obama's being undermined by republicans. he can't sell this plan to democrats in the middle. nobody says that. republicans, though, when they called barack obama a racist, when they say he's a nazi, when going back goes out there and says that he's trying to create a nazi germany situation like he appeared to be trying to do last night and his guests wouldn't play along, then you have all this noise when sarah palin brings up death panels. although are doing is pushing those democrats in the middle closer to barack obama. i'm sorry. i know this is going to hurt some conservatives' feelings but that rhetoric is just stupid. it's ill-advised. it drives up ratings. and it sells books but it gets america closer to passing an obama health care package.

it's just that simple. is calling barack obama a racist going to push claire mccaskill closer to obama or further away from barack obama? seriously, people need to think this through and these so-called conservatives are doing nothing but playing into democrats' hands. >> one possibility, though, sarah palin talking about death panels as nutty as that might sound because it doesn't come port to the reality of legislation, it does gin up so much anger people take over the meetings, the president's voice can't be heard so maybe there is a strategy here. she backed off on it a little bit. maybe the strategy is to create so much heat that they can't get the facts out. >> what it does do, look at what obama -- the president was talking about. there aren't going to be any death panels. >> he's playing defense. exactly, pat. >> she has turned the whole debate around. i think obama wins that but if he's talking about no death

panels versus yes and no, i think you're playing on terrain where the other side -- >> is this a great bumper sticker for the president on health care? i am not going to euthanize your grandmother. is that -- >> she said pull the plug. >> i'm not going to pull the plug. >> i went back to 1995 when bill clinton was demagoguing medicare shamelessly saying republicans want to take your medicare to give tax cuts to the rich. >> good one, joe. >> that made us angry for three or four months but, guess what, we kept going to town hall meetings and seniors would stand up and say why are you taking our medicare away? we're saying what bill clinton was saying. no, you're not. over time these people that underestimate -- and i will say sarah palin here who underestimates the intelligence of the american people always lose. if that's a last-minute ad, 30

days before a campaign, fine, but democrats have a year before the election. >> all right. >> they're pretty scared. the democrats, the house members looking at some of those town hall meetings are scared. >> they should be scared but this is a marathon. they need to keep their head down. if they think they have a good bill, and i don't think they do, but if they think they have a good bill, they keep their head down and they keep pushing and they leave with facts. >> they're scared. they're scared because they know that those folks coming out there are authentic and real and mott some conspiracy. >> andrea mitchell, thank you very much. i know you have to go. if you can come back -- >> i will. >> great. up next, fight night at fenway park. sports is next with willie geist. for dazzling white teeth, give toothpaste the brush off. you need listerine® whitening vibrant white™ rinse. the mouthwash that gets teeth four times whiter

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ask your doctor if boniva can help you stop losing, and start reversing. (announcer) for a free trial offer, call 1-800-4-boniva. and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber. today in orlando a man was sentenced to two days in jail because during a trip to disneyworld he grabbed minnie mouse's breast. that's true. the man said it's not his fault because minnie was dressed like a whore. >> that's an outrageous claim. let's do some sports. everybody else in the country's fighting right now at these town hall meetings so why not major league baseball players? let's go to fenway park last

night. detroit's miguel cabrera had been hit in the hand in the first inning. payback from the tigers on kevin youkilis. he charges immediately, throws his helmet at porcello, takes him to the ground. a big pile-on. not a lot of punches thrown. the dugouts emptied. the bull pens emptied. the man who came in to replace him, mike lowell, hit two home runs. a good fight and a good replacement. the two-run shot over the monster. the red sox win 7-5. they hope to pick up a game on the yankees. to the bronx and see if they did. yankees down 4-3 to toronto until matsui led off with a long shot to right field tying the game at 4-4. then the very next batter, jorge posada, he goes the other way. takes one out to right. yankees go back-to-back to win the game 7-5, winning 8 out of 9 games and remain 5 1/2 games up on the red sox. to the team some say is the best team in the national league, the phillies. visiting the cubs at wrigley

last night, top of the 12th, the leadoff homer good enough to give the phillies a win over the cubs in 12 innings. they take a 3 1/2 lead over the marlins. cubs now three back of the cardinals. this is a shocking story now. some off-the-court college basketball news for you. the louisville courier journal reporting head basketball coach rick pitino, one of the most successful and respectful coaches in the game is caught up in a salacious scandal that involved sex and alleged extortion. pitino has reportedly admitted to police he had con sevsensual with a woman. he told police he had been drinking in 2003 and did have sex with the woman. she is the now estranged wife, get this, of pitino's equipment manager at louisville, a man pitino befriended while head coach of the celtics and later brought with him to the university of louisville. pitino reportedly also told

police he gave the woman $3,000 for an abortion. the woman has also laid rape charges at his feet. police say those claims are baseless. a pretty shocking story there out of louisville. that's sports. up next, we'll lighten things up a little bit with some news you can't use, an important update on the miley cyrus pole dancing story. dan senor has not been pole dancing. we want to make that very clear. we will get dan senor's take on the miley cyrus pole dancing and the exotic community weighs in on her performance. ♪ well i was shping for a new car, ♪

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oh, is it time? >> it is. it is, mika. i even hear you in washington. it's almost better when you're in washington. it's time for news you can't use, an important update and we will stay on top of each and every day, the miley cyrus pole dancing story. remember at the teen choice awards, we showed it to you yesterday. >> unbelievable. >> we have an update. the exotic dancing community now speaking out about that performance being frankly very critical of some of her moves. we do have one statement coming

in to us to nbc news, scores, the well-known famous gentlemen's club in new york and found across this country, the founder of that fine establishment has said this, while miley did show off some skills, we at scores cannot encourage this kind of behavior for women under the legal age. if she'd like to come try out in a couple of years, our door is open. that coming to us from the scores gentlemen's club. >> oh, my. >> so strip clubs across america are now considering miley cyrus -- >> no, they're not. >> saying she needs to wait a few years. >> employees -- in a few years. >> in a few years. >> is your daughter still going to be watching miley's shows? >> there's no television, when she comes back there will be no more miley and i will have the book taken away. >> it's called the brzezinski gulag in northeast harbor. miley is only 16.

she'll have to wait a couple of years. speaking of disney and good times. a shocking story coming to us out of orlando, florida. we have a conviction in that trial that's divided a nation. the minnie mouse groping trial. here's a picture of the man, a 60-year-old pennsylvania fellow, who has now been found guilty of groping minnie mouse who was in a big furry character costume there. sentenced to 180 days of supervised probation, 50 hours community service, and a $1,000 fine. he also has to write a written letter of apology to minimnie mouse or to the woman who was in the costume. >> what the heck? >> a true story. >> willie, our innocence was shattered when we first heard this. i asked buchanan about it and i said, pat, what are we going to do? i said, pat, we're never going to laugh again, are we? and he said, we'll laugh again, joe, but we'll never be young

again. >> stupid. >> it ended an era. minnie mouse groping. >> the mouse can he teaketeers america. >> the minnie mouse woman said she was groped, had to back away. he said it didn't happen that way. here he is in a dramatic moment. >> your honor, i am innocent. i am not guilty of the crimes that i have been charged with. i am sorry for the jury, that they had to go through this. i pray to my god, jehovah, that he has mercy on the verdict that has been given. >> i think god excuses the groping of a furry character, don't you? >> i'm not so sure. >> i'm sorry for the judge. >> the judge seriously was thinking -- >> i would not want to go back

to pennsylvania after my picture was on national tv on that one, joe. >> groping minnie mouse. >> i think he's going to have a hard time at the office. >> i think the elks club may be rethinking membership. well, the trial ends, guys, and now the national viewing can begin. let's put this thing back together. meanwhile, talking about president obama's town hall meeting in new hampshire yesterday. he made a lot of news. one little nugget that we found quite interesting here, when he took a shot at the united states postal service, basically the point he was trying to make is that putting a public option for health care in will not crowd out private investment, see letter carrying, ups and fedex have done just fine. here he is ripping the postal service. >> if you think about it, u.p.s. and fedex are doing just fine. right? no, they are. it's the post office that's

always having problems. >> yeah, the post office is the one that sucks, says the president of the united states. so there you have it. it's hard to argue with him. >> i don't know that's really the strongest argument he has for getting the american government involved in health care. >> this government thing is a mess. >> it's we and the federal government who suck at providing services. no, i wouldn't make that argument. let's give you another example. >> we can't deliver a letter but we'll deliver health care to you. >> i've got one. it was a government that put together an army that scaled the cliffs of normandy. our military does fine. let's not use the post office 0. >> not the dmv either. we will stay away with that one. >> brazilian tv. >> i want a story, seriously --

i'm thinking when is he going to tell a story about a brazilian tv host? how long must we sing this song? >> today is your lucky day. a tv show very popular in brazil where this it guy, he goes out and he's the first on the scene at crimes. he has this exclusive, raunchy, crime scene video. he's always the first on this real-life crime drama. here's why. police in brazil said he was ordering some of the killings. >> oh, my. >> the order to execute always came from this man who was a former legislator. then he would alert tv crews to get to the scene before the police. the killings were of competing drug traffickers, we're told, and it made for great ratings so he ordered the killings. there you have it. anything for reality tv. >> you know, i've heard of local it tv channels having police scanners.

>> well, yeah. >> this is taking it like a step further. did they ever do that up in hartford? >> yes, i had one. >> no, the ordered killings. >> no. >> did that happen in connecticut? >> no not at all. >> as far as you know. >> it is the top of the hour. >> he vehemently denies the charges. >> of course he does. just like the minnie mouse groper. >> thank you for nothing and that, willie. we appreciate it. all right. top of the hour. >> welcome to "morning joe. "it's the top of the hour. mika brzezinski and joe with you. >> donny deutsch. >> pat buchanan also in washington. up in new york we have willie geist along with donny deutsch. a lot to talk about. town hall meetings across america just scenes of very vocal protests except the president in new hampshire. he was safe and sound. nice and cozy in the new hampshire town hall meeting that actually didn't have the type of drama that would have been helpful for the white house. >> all these nice puff ball questions. >> it was too staged. mr. president, what makes you so great? we'll be talking a lot about the town hall meetings.

we have senator claire mccaskill here talking to us about really a rowdy crowd that she had to deal with yesterday. plus, also, we're going to show you a clip from glenn beck. this is fascinating stuff. glenn beck trying to paint a vast left wing conspiracy. what happens when you try to pabt a vast left wing conspiracy? none of your guests play along with you. and also chris matthews swearing at a -- >> i think you ought to -- >> it's tv. seriously. the kids are watching. >> shh. did you that once. badly. >> oh. right here in the studio. >> that is correct. it's time now for -- >> i'll be quiet. >> please, actually. that a would be great. time now for a look at some of today's top stories. today at least a dozen members of congress will hold town meetings in their home states following up on president obama's trip to new hampshire on tuesday. speaking to a crowd of thousands, the president took on

the issue of health care and what he calls scare tactics being used to stifle the debate. >> the rumor that's been circulating a lot lately is this e idea that somehow the house of representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma. because we've decided we don't -- it's too expensive to let her live anymore. i am not in favor of that. just i want to -- i want to clear the air here. >> that town hall was far more civil than those held by senators arlen speck it ter and claire mccaskill who faced angry crowds in pennsylvania and missouri. >> you want to be let out of here, you're welcome to go. now wait a minute -- now wait a minute -- now wait a minute -- now wait a minute.

wait a minute. wait a minute. >> this man is trampling on my right and i am leaving. i have every right to leave. >> he has a right to leave. he is right. >> it is my constitutional right. one day god's going to stand before you and he's going to judge you and the rest of your damn cronies up on the hill. >> i don't understand this route rudeness. what is this? i don't get it. i honestly don't get it. do you all think that you're persuading people when you shout out like that? you don't trust me? >> no! okay. you know, i don't know what else i can do. i don't know what else i can do. if you want me to go home -- >> wow. just quickly, joe, talk about

what's going on here. first of all -- >> i'm looking at those crowds. pat buchanan, crowds like that in august? i don't think i've seen crowds that big for any political event since barack obama first came onto the scene up in new hampshire and had those thousands -- look at this video and, again, for democrats who say that all these people are k-street plants, they are whistling past the graveyard, something very significant is going on out there. >> andrea made the point, these democrats are very scared, now if it's just a couple of ringers in there getting in your face, people don't get scared, that's just fine, but these crowds are huge, joe. this is -- i've been out there in iowa in the summer and august, you can't get 10, 15 people out, and these people are going home -- congressmen be a senators, 500, 1,000, 1,500 people to listen to this argument and to argue and fight back.

middle america is angry. it's upset. i don't know how this is going to play out overall but there's tremendous interest in this and to say it's a conspiracy, this is a mob, i think, unjust. >> claire mccaskill, evan bayh, mary landrieu, ben nelson, the arkansas senators, they cannot vote on the health care bill from president obama or from liberal house democrats while this feeling is out there. they have got to be given political cover and it's going to take a while to explain this health care bill to america. >> it's great you got claire mccaskill coming up because she's obviously a good, centrist democrat. she can tell us whether this is -- they are packing these meetings and coming after her or if this is reflective of real anger and rage. >> maybe a little bit of both. >> is it authentic or what some of these folks say? i think it's authentic. >> again, anybody that's trying to put a political crowd together in august will tell you

if you get 10 or 15 people, i mean, and it doesn't matter if you have the most powerful organizations trying to pull people out to town hall meetings. i have in my district. i can tell you, you can't do it in august. this is authentic. now maybe people are out there because they've been misled. maybe there are some out there. but you just can't stage these type of rallies. >> the economy. look, 80% of all jobs lost have been lost by men and i think this -- and you have an enormous number. that explains the number. >> t"the new york times," by th way, had a story called the man-session. >> more women than men. >> it's true. while women get paid less, they keep their jobs. houts democrats say newly released documents show karl rove played a critical role in the firing of a u.s. attorney in new mexico back in 2006.

according to transcripts of closed door testimony he was agitateded with the attorney for not pursuing specific cases favored by the white house. >> and coming up this morning's headlines. we've got donny deutsch here. also we're going to get this morning's headlines out of the white house with chuck todd. and after the break, senator claire mccaskill. >> yes, she took part in that rowdy town hall meeting yesterday on health care. we'll have her reaction when we come back. rewrite your hair's past and give it a whole new life. new aveeno nourish plus. active naturals wheat formulas proven to target and help repair damage in just three washes. - building shiny, song... - hair with life. announcer: new aveeno nourish plus.

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with us now nbc news chief white house correspondent and also nbc news political director chuck todd. chuck, very interesting i was listening to your reports last night and also hearing some other people. interesting comment they thought

the hnew hampshire town hall meeting may have been a bit too sedate. that it was out of place yesterday with all of these rowdy town hall meetings. does the white house think they may have managed that one a bit too well? >> reporter: well, look, the thing is this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't. you've had to come into the white house, joe, and you know how difficult it is given -- you have to give your social security, you have to do your date of birth, all of this stuff. so when you go to a presidential town hall and you want to participate, you have to go on early. you log into a website, saying you want to go. they randomly select. they don't ask you for political views. you just say, hey, i want to go. you put your name and address. you do have to submit your social security, date of birth, all that kind of stuff. that randoming process, that extra hurdle, probably made it so that some opponents just didn't have their act together in time to get in. >> you're telling us this

morning that the white house had nothing to do with the people that showed up, that this was a random crowd and 100% of the crowd was supportive of the president? >> reporter: well, look, i'm not going to vouch for 100% of the crowd. i did go and interview many members of the crowd. i found opponents. i found people that were -- hey, i didn't find anybody ready to scream and get in the face of anybody. so that obviously, i think, frankly, i saw folks from the white house in the back of the room during the town hall kind of wishing that the questions were tougher. i talked with a supporter who said, gosh, i wish the questions had been tougher. so i do think they were -- look, what if they had given a chunk of the ticket to the new hampshire republican party to distribute? obviously the two democratic congressmen, it's all democratic lawmakers right now. maybe they should have had judd gregg distribute some tickets in new hampshire to try to

guarantee that they would have had some more of a confrontation, but i go back to the secret service issue. i'm sorry, there's a lot of security at a presidential event. nobody inside wants to act stupid. frankly, the protesters outside, there were about an equal number of anti- versus pro when it came to the president but, you know what, they were overall well behaved. you had the sort of looney tune guy trying to show off new hampshire's right to carry a gun, unconcealed weapon, but he was trying to make another point. he wasn't there to hate on 0 government. >> i was watching chuck last night. somebody tried to get chuck to say, this is a rowdy crowd and chuck said, no, no, no, they were well behaved and i thought that was great on your part. and, listen, i'm glad the crowd -- i don't want anybody to misunderstand me, mika, i'm glad the crowd was respectful of the president. i think they should be respectful of the president.

i'm just talking the optics for the white house. what's in the white house's best interest. >> strategically, chuck, doesn't it make sense if they wanted to spell rumors and dispel all these misstatements about the health care reform plan, wouldn't they want to confront them with someone who really vehement vehemently questions it? and isn't that the president's strong suit to sort of deal with these situations live? >> reporter: well, it is. the one dwi who asked about the public option, the insurance, i interviewed him after and he was definitely a republican who did not vote for obama but, you know, did you watch him -- i saw his body language when he was asking the president a question versus afterwards. and, you know, there's something about the office of the presidency where when you have a one-on-one i think even if you're an opponent you just don't -- you're just not going to act the way you would act with a member of congress or a senator and i think it goes to the different -- i mean, i think it's a decorum -- this isn't about president obama. it's about any president at this

point. and president obama, frankly, is somebody who isn't a rabid guy either so his demeanor carries over as to how questions are ask asked. >> that's a good point. >> we appreciate the update. we're going to go now to claire mccaskill. she took questions in front of over 1,000. >> a little rowdy. >> claire, come on. we're looking at the new hampshire town hall meeting and it just seemed so sedate and then we go to missouri. let's play some of those clips. >> if you would raise your hand if you are adamantly opposed to any federal health care reform, would you raise your hand. okay. okay. >> so, anyway, senator, help us out because pat and i were talk ing about how we've never seen crowds like this out in august except maybe when president obama first started his campaign in new hampshire a couple summers ago.

what's going on out there? who were those people that were yelling yesterday in the audience? >> well, we had thousands show up and, frankly, there was a large group of people who don't trust government, you know, and these things -- i thought it was terrific. i was up there for two hours. we had a few tough moments but by and large this is what it's about. this is -- i'm lucky to have this job and to be able to get out there -- >> good for you. >> these people are frustrated and they don't trust government. it's not personal to me. they are just frustrated. >> and, senator, do you agree with me the best thing democrats can do on health care is to keep holding the town hall meetings, keim your head down, explain the situation -- again, though i disagree with this health care reform bill, get the facts out. if the facts are object your side, people will come around, right? >> yeah. and as i said yesterday, just because you're loud, it doesn't mean you're right and rude is

generally not very persuasive. most of the people in the gym yesterday, and i think we had 2,500 people there, got that part. and they were doing what they needed to do to calm people down and get people to be quiet because people wanted to listen to the questions and listen to the give and take. it was a great democracy moment yesterday in missouri. i'm really proud of it. >> and, pat buchanan, once again, i love hearing what she said. of course the bigger problem, though, for democrats in swing states like claire's is the fact she has to question how many of you are opposeded to health care reform. almost everybody seemed to raise their hand and democrats need to get the word out about what their bill is really about. >> they sure do. i think claire mccaskill -- senator mccaskill, you have a view which frankly corresponds with mine as to what's going on, that they're un-american, they're thugs, they're mobs, organized by k-street. did you feel they were authentically concerned one way or the other and were out there

because they believe in it themselves and were concerned and wanted to engage you or did it look like something that was canned? >> oh, it was absolutely authentic. these folks aren't manufactured. this is a grassroots thing on both sides and both sides are organizing, and isn't that great? i think that's good. i'm so blessed to be from missouri because it's a split, even, 50/50 state in so many ways and so i get the far left screaming at me and the far right screaming at me and then we try to find that middle where we can compromise and find some good insurance reform and things that we need to do to bring down the deficit in this bill. and i'm going to push ahead and see if we can't find that great moderate mid that will will get us progress on the bill. most missourians get that. >> and, senator, what does that final bill look like, somebody like you that evan bayh in indiana, that mary landrieu in louisiana, bill nelson in nebraska can vote for? where is that middle? it's certainly not where nancy pelosi or henry waxman are,

where is it? >> well, it focuses on insurance reform, making sure insurance companies can't pull the rug out from under you if you get really sick, making sure you can get insurance if you lose your job somewhere else, if you have an illness, that pre-exist iing condition. i think it looks at the trillion dollars of waste we have right now in the system and figures out some ways to incentivize more efficient behavior, preventive care, making sure folks understand diabetes in this country is an epidemic and it is breaking the bank. if we bring down diabetes which is preventible by 10%, it changes the arc of the deficit. that is a huge challenge but one we can do in this bill in a way that's not going to be offensive to the vast majority of americans. >> senator mccaskill, in the town hall meeting you held, it got rowdy. there were some rough moments. in the end, did you feel you accomplished something? was there a communication

between you and the crowd where there was some understanding that was reached? >> i think so. so many people came into the room, mika, that had already made up their minds. that's what worries me about some of these meetings is the people who have strong opinions are the ones who are most motivated to show up. and those people who aren't sure, who maybe are hearing this misinformation out there about a ridiculous notion we would offend the most important voting block in america, seniors, by telling them what care they could get in the later years of their life, that kind of misinformation, that's why it's important to continue to get out there and hope that some of that filters through to the people who aren't motivated to come out there were a whole lot of people yesterday at that meeting that came with their minds made up and they didn't want to hear anything. they just wanted to talk. >> wow. challenging. senator claire mccaskill, thank you so much. that was great. and i love the fact that she

sees that this is real people coming out there and taking part in a conversation. >> it's democracy and sometimes it's not pretty, but you, like i said, you keep your head down and if the facts are on your side, you just keep arguing the facts and people will get it. americans are a lot smarter than elites in washington and new york and l.a. think they are. >> i love the conversation. coming up, dan senor from the council on foreign relations. and up next, 230 miles per gallon? those are high expectations for the new chevy volt. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for?

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but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network.

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looking at the new volt. the highly anticipated 2010 model the chevy volt expected to get 230 miles per gallon. you heard that right. more than four times the gas mileage of its competition, the toyota prius. here to tell us the impact on the car industry, phil lebeau driv in detroit for us. phil, can 230 miles per gallon be for real? >> reporter: it can be for real when you look at the formula that the epa is likely to use for figuring out what the fuel efficiency will be for extended range electric vehicles, and we're not going to get into the

formula now. when you look at that formula and you plug dat at that in for city driving, which will primarily be all based on electricity, it will knob gas involved for the volt, that's why you get 230 miles per gallon. they have not released the overall fuel efficiency for the vehicle. believe me, when you factor in the gas assist engine, it's going to be much lower than 230. it will still be triple digit but less than 230. boug bottom line, we are on the cusp of the era you'll see triple digit fuel economy for vehicles like this. nissan's new car it unveil last week in japan gets 367 miles to the gallon. that's all electric. again, when you compute it with the formula that the epa uses, that's what you're going to get. we are on the verge of seeing triple digit fuel economy when these vehicles start rolling into showrooms. by the way, this comes out late next year, estimated price about 40 grand. a lot of people say that's too much. i'm not going to pay 40 grand for an electric vehicle.

if gas is at $4 a gallon, people might think differently. it is an interesting day to say the least. >> what does this mean for gm? do we think of them as a healthier company than we did yesterday? >> reporter: it doesn't change things immediately. they are a healthier company because they've gone through bankruptcy and have been able to wipe out billions in debt that were holding down the bottom line of the company. this is not going to hit the bottom line right away. many years before they make money on the volt but this is the future of this company. this is where they are headed. they believe this technology in the volt, what starts here, they can apply to the entire lineup of vehicles and that's where this company is hoping to go over the next five or six years. >> well, it's certainly exciting. phil lebeau, thanks so much. we hope it turns out the way you think it's going to. thanks so much. coming up, dan seor will be here in studio with us plus we'll rejoin the gang in washington, d.c. most for headaches.

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with us now senior fellow at the council on seniors relations -- foreign -- dan senor. also still with us in new york donny deutsch. let's go to donny first. hey, donny, what's your take on claire mccaskill? >> joe, he stepped away for a second. >> oh, okay. dan, we'll ask you the question. tell us about claire mccaskill. we were very impressed with her interview. she said this is democracy. >> and democracy is messy. >> sometimes it is. you know that pretty damn well, don't you, dan? >> democracy is messy. all the power to claire mccaskey. she was terrific yesterday.

look i think the democrats got themselves in a bind here. they have not been helped by the congressional budget office which has confirmed many conservatives' worst fear that is this health care plan is going to cost a lot more money than the administration initially indicated. the congressional budget office is headed by former lieutenant of larry summers, so he has sort of gold standard democratic economic policy credentials and i think this has fueled part of the chaos that you're seeing these town hall meetings. some of it is absurd. some of the charges that were being hurled at mccaskill are absurd. some related to concerns about cost and the impact in terms of millions of people moving into the public option and what the impact will have on coverage are legitimate and i think she was terrific. >> you sound like me. i'm a conservative guy. i oppose health care reform that the president's pushing but you hear some of these charges. you hear about the death panels. you hear people calling the

president a racist, suggesting that he's a nazi, that he's moving forward like nazi germany. i just want to tell those conservatives to shut the hell up. they're acting like a lot of people are acting on the far left over the past eight years. would you agree with me? >> i would say, joe -- >> that they are hurting the cause. they are hurting the conservative movement by being so damn crazy for a few more viewers. >> right. so here's what i think. it is a legitimate question to ask that if we spend over a trillion more dollars on this health care plan, raise serious questions about the impact it will have on the economy particularly against the backdrop of the stimulus and some of these other things, it is a legitimate question to ask how this will rein in costs. these are all legitimate questions to ask. conservatives should be asking these questions. democrats should be asking these questions. the charges you just cited are absurd and they totally undermine actually the more legitimate, credible and honest criticism like the ones we're

talking about. >> you know, i'm just taking in what we heard from claire mccaskill and i wonder, joe, if the white house could take -- i mean, i haven't heard the white house saying we welcome the conversation. you know it was great. this is what america is about, hearing different points of view, disspelling myths and getting to the heart of the matter. have i missed it or has the white house missed an opportunity? >> i think the white house has been a little more on edge but since they first got there, they have been rahm emanuel's white house as far as communication goes. if somebody at cnbc says something, you trash them. if somebody on cable news -- it's what pat calls shooting down. they have spent the first six months shooting down to people they should ignore. claire mccaskill, i thought, really was trying hard to find the middle of america. she is in the middle of america in every way and it sounds like that's a great message for democrats. >> they pushed back against the pelosi, steny hoyer op-ed in

"usa today." they said, yeah, we welcome this debate. and the president opened his town hall yesterday in portsmouth by saying and if we don't get people questioning it, i'm going to seek out questioners who want to push back because we want to surface these arguments and put some of them to rest so he tried to. he didn't get a whole lot, as chuck todd was saying, a whole lot of pushback. people were more respectful of the president of the united states. >> do we stay with the extremists on the right making these wild charges against the president, the extremists on the left suggesting these are all staged by k-street. do we see them -- are we beginning to see a process where they are going to get drowned out and people like claire mccaskill and owe llympia snowe going to find the middle of this debate? >> claire mccaskill respected her audience. a lot of people came and have their mind made up and were angry the she didn't say they had to be thrown out. they had a right to be heard.

what happened to the whole idea of robust debate? >> it was such a common sense assessment of what happened. she enjoyed a lot of it. >> you know what's surprising to me, dan senor, you threw out a number $ trillion -- more than that. okay, let's say $2 trillion just for argument's sake. democrats say $1 trillion. that's over ten years. that is such a small amount of money compared to what we have blown through over the last six months that i'm actually stunned that we are having this sort of anger and suddenly this great concern about deficits when the fdic created a trillion dollars in one day with a bureaucratic trade. >> i think it's the cumulative effect, right? so on the stimulus package republicans, members of congress were given virtually no time to read the bill and basically put a gun to their heads and told to vote. then you had the cap and trade

bill where you had a similar e dynamic and, in fact,that case one in five congressional democrats actually voted against it. i just think it's one after the other. >> it's the aggregate. andrea, isn't that what it is? is. >> exactly right. >> and i don't even think americans are focusing that much on this bill. i think it's more, okay, we moved too fast. it's like colin powell said two or three weeks ago to president obama. slow down. you're tackling too much. >> it's the big government deal and especially in new hampshire and places like that. it's the fear of the black helicopters and governments coming after you and we've been doing too much stuff and there's a lot of misinformation out there. >> buchanan, 1996, promised in new hampshire, i will shoot down the black helicopter. >> pitchfork in hand. where is he? bring him back. >> he's here. we've got him. >> i do agree with the idea that obama has overloaded the circuits. >> well, but he is saying he

inherited it. >> he had a lot of choices. >> what is it, rahm said we don't want to let this crisis going to waste. i think they said, look, let's get everything we tried to do, get it through in the first six months. we aren't going to have another shot at it. with the stimulus and the economy not picking up -- >> i think they have no choice on the bank bailout. >> exactly. >> and shoring up the financial system. cap and trade another argument. >> every president, though, tries to get everything he can get his first six months, doesn't he? >> and, in fact, what he's saying now is immigration off the table. he's trying to put it down the road. >> downsize this package. >> downsize it and worry about consumer protection. >> stay with us, if you will. coming up, "the washington post's" steven pearlstein.

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states given the violent history with presidents and assassinations? why did you bring a gun to a public event with the president? you know the history of this country. you know this country's history. a problem with people with guns at presidential events y. did you bring a gun to an event with the president? >> i do know history and the history is that our forefathers fought for the right to keep and bear arms and they believe they should be armed. >> everybody knows that. you brought a sign that said a the tree of liberty has to be watered with the blood of tyrants and you're carrying a gun at a presidential event. i think that makes people wonder what you're about. >> okay. >> what was chris' point of view on that? >> i think he might have been a little concerned. but now you and chris have something in common. >> no, i don't think so. pat, you've been up to new hampshire. >> i think so. >> what's that about?

>> the first guy i ran into in '92 up there i went to buy some north country clothes so i would look like -- >> you wanted to fit in. >> the brooks brothers. the first guy had a beard and he got his head up about that far from me and said where do you stand on 0 gun control? be a so i said i'm against it. but let me tell you, my announcement, joe, the girl behind -- the lady behind me, a young woman, and kennedy, the big guy behind me, were both packing. a houston cop, who was my buddy, was carrying a gun in the audience and, frankly, we were attacked on that stage, maybe you recall, and shelly almost got knocked often the day i announced. i'm lucky they didn't pull out a stick. there would have been a lot of gunfire up there. >> what was going on there? >> that's a normal new hampshire guy. >> that's a normal new hampshire guy? >> standing on private property perfectly legally, across the street on a church property. >> he would feel naked without

his gun. >> he's showing off. he left before the president arrived. >> so he left. so this was not -- >> this was a show. >> the gun is normal up there. >> yeah, but he's just making a statement. calling him out on it. >> chris made it sound like that guy was going to the event. he was gone by the time the president even showed up. >> frankly in his own way i thought chris was interviewing very tough, i thought the guy in his own way was very articulate. >> if you have a gun, you can be articulate. >> he didn't bring it in with chris. >> with us now columnist for "the washington post" steven pearlstein. steven had some harsh words for republican leaders opposed to health care and he wrote this. quote, the recent attacks by republican leaders and their ideological fellow travelers on the effort to reform the health care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan

political advantage. they've become political terrorists willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems. >> okay. >> steven, good morning. >> terrorists -- we're going to try to have more light and heat in this interview but let's start first with a little bit of heat. i want to ask you, did you write such things about bill clinton in 1995 when he was trying to scare grandma, when we, republicans, were trying to save medicare by proposing the same slowdown in benefits bill clinton proposed two years earlier? >> and you didn't bring a gun, did you? >> did you call him a political terrorist in 1995? >> no, i was a reporter in 1995. i wasn't allowed to write such things. i wasn't allowed to be opinionated. i haven't been a columnist that long. if i had been, i would have. >> good for you. >> okay. >> so now let's go to the light. explain to americans, as you've done in one of your recent

columns what president obama is proposing. explain what the public -- first let's start with the public health option that he is proposing. does that mean that i cannot go to my doctor, that i cannot have my insurance that i have, that i cannot take care of my family's health care needs in the future like i am today? >> no. it doesn't mean anything like that. i have to start with something other than the public option so you can understand the public option, you can understand what the option part of that means, which is, first of all, you probably work for something like nbc. i work for "the washington post." we have company plans. as it turns out, we think we're insured by aetna or cigna. we're not. our company insures us. they take the risk. aetna and cigna just process the stuff according to rules they've agreed with your employer.

none of that is affected by or very little of that is affected by anything in any of these bills. the president doesn't want to change that. most people don't want to. >> so we maintain -- most of us maintain the insurance coverage that we have. >> we have large group coverage if we work for large companies. this effort, most of it is aimed at what's called the small group insurance market, smaller companies and individuals who have to buy. >> right. >> and that -- >> which, by the way in 1993 and '94 we were trying to take care of. in florida we set up what's called c.h.i.p. where people could pool together and get insurance. >> republicans have been trying to reform the market for years and the democrats have stopped it. and i have criticized them to go to your heat point. but now the democrats have their own plan to reform this small group and individual market and they're going to do it by setting up regional exchanges so anyone -- any company that wants

to sell into this goes to the regional exchange and says here's the program i want to sell. the government sets up governmen thing, and they set up the rules. >> again, i have interject here. let's shine light on the process. this is what not only republicans, but democrats have been proposing for sometime. let's set up, and it has been private instead of public, but let's set up a device, a mechanism, because when you pull together it brings down the cost. >> yeah, and what democrats want, and the republicans haven't, if you take into this, you have to boo-hu buy from who

sells insurance. this is $1 trillion over 10 years. not every year. and some would argue, and some would say it's efficient to medicare, right? >> we will get to the cost in a minute. let's get to the public option. one of the options the democrats want to have at the exchange, and it's only for the small-group market is a public-run. that's one of the options. but it's only an option. >> yeah, it's one of the option. you agree with sarah palin, and thank you very much. we'll be right back. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of st. louis. the gateway to the west, and home of claire mccaskill, who was on earlier. >> she was so great. >> yes, she was. i just twittered about that. >> excuse me, mr. twitter 24/7. i twitter once and you get mad. go ahead. >> glenn beck, and i will admit, i usually don't watch the show. i got home and had a few minutes, and i turn on glenn beck. he is drawing the tree, and he

has roots, and he is talking about how nazi germany came about. he had the roots and the tree. and i cannot explain it. it was as confusing to me as it was his guests. take a look at what happened yesterday. >> it all starts out well, and then it goes awry, and germany went awry because of a couple things. who is the spookiest part of the root system? you have to say that forced abortions, and the population is too big. how many people in the green movement think people are a virus. i think maybe that's a way of spreading the money through

social justice through health care. anybody believe that they are building a master race? >> no, sir. >> one is a communists, and believe enforced abortion and legal rights for animals and babies not human. okay, that doesn't sound too nuts to me. >> okay. pat -- >> can we play it again? >> what just happened? >> he was trying to say that we were trying to create a master race, and some of the thickers were part of the grand design to create a master race. >> it was a tree. >> and sadly -- yeah, there was a tree, but i think this is a

milking strategy. and the people would not play ball. willie geist, maybe you can agree with glenn that we are trying to create a master race here by having a public option to health care. >> i will not go there. i have not watched him enough to make a judgment on him, and i noticed a device, he does a segment and he says, i am not suggesting this is happening. he set this up, and then he says i am not suggesting this is coming, and then he looks around to the blank stairs on the guests. >> we don't accept things like killing babies, forced

abortions, and frankly death panels. we don't accept that. it seems absurd. we don't accept that. why don't people have enough faith to believe that? >> well, i have a conservative audience. 96% conservative union rating. i ask some of the people, what is wrong with you? do you not have faith in the constitution? do you not have faith in james madison's belief in a separation -- do you not believe one state senator from illinois who gets elected can destroy the great republican as president in six months? that's a great point. >> you have an exaggeration of what is a real fear.

there is no forced abortion, this is not communist china. and in the bill -- they have not made the decision yet, are they going to pay for abortion. this is problematic for individuals at both ends. and you get the bumper stickers that you see. and in 1964, they took your social security card and cut it in half. was that terrorism according to steve? well, i have been in several debates, and all of them, when you get to the end, it's amnesty or this or that. it gets very simple. people use simple terms. and that's what has happened. >> i think that the difference between a political terrorism and political discussion is people involved in the political discussion are trying to make

the bill better, and people who are political terrorism are trying to kill the whole thing. >> it would be nice we get people that say we cannot afford this right now, so no, and it's a legitimate political view. >> yeah, it is, and $1.8 trillion is not a very reliable number. it's a 10-year number. >> no, that's the deficit this year. >> that's unacceptable over the long term. >> yeah, and so pat, you are just basically saying it's all right to say what colin powell said a couple weeks ago when he said we are overloading the circuits, we are doing too much. you will disagree with that, but at the same time you accept that point of view, right? >> well, what costs money is if you want to say to people you cannot afford insurance, you must buy it and we will

subsidize you if the cost is more than 12% of your income, that's where the cost comes. but there are a lot of reforms that don't cost money, and they will save money. >> that's the debate we need to have instead of talking about nazi germany. thank you for being with us. we always appreciate it. as i said, i am opposed to this. we can be opposed to it without just going over the top. there are a lot of people out there hurting the conservative cause again. republicans, you need to be going home and be quiet for six months, and watch it implode. napoleon says when your enemies destroy themselves, get out of way. >> yeah, the name-calling is giving the democrats on the far left somebody to blame. let's get a kilook at the t

stories. and we start with congress. they will be holding more of the town hall meetings in their home states today, and obama spoke to a crowd of thousands. he took on the issue of health care and what he calls scare tactics. >> the rumor circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the house of representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma, because we decided that we don't -- it's too expensive to let her live anymore. i am not in favor of that. i just want to clear the air here. >> that town hall was far more civil than those held by arlen

specter and claire mccaskill. >> if you want to be out of here, you are free to go. now, wait a minute! wait a minute! wait a minute! now, wait a minute! >> i am leaving. i have every right to leave. >> wait a minute! he has a right to leave. he is right. >> one day god is going to stand before you, and he's going to judge you, and the rest of your kroen ease up on the hill. >> i don't understand this rudeness. what is this? i don't get it? i honestly don't get it? do you think you are persuaded people when you shout out like that? you don't trust me? you know, i don't know what else

i can do. i don't know what else i can do. if you want me to go home -- >> 16 people will be awarded the presidential medal of freedom at the white house today. they receive the medal of freedom today. now, the congressional oversight panel, joining us, and she is also here with savannah guthrie, and pat buchanan. >> thank you so much. >> my wife's maiden name is warren, and i mess up your name, warren. >> you remember when secretary

pu paulson came to us and said the economy could be gone by next week. by the time congress got it passed and he changed his mind and said they were going to put money into the bank. by and large, the toxic assets that brought us to this point are still on the books of the banks. >> where did the $700 million go? >> well, the first $350 billion of it went directly into the banks for stocks and warrants. a direct infusion of cash into the banks. we talked about this. this was the don't ask don't tell money. we did not ask and they did not tell how they were going to spend it. the second $350 is what is being

held on to. he is spreading it out. he said i will put some into home mortgages and different kinds of programs that he is trying to do. now we have a program called peepip. yeah, i know. >> somebody needs to redo the acronyms here. >> yeah, this is where they try to jump-start the market where they get private money in so they will buy assets from the bank. >> they never got it off the ground, did they? >> no. >> they are going to try and buy the securitized assets. now, this creates a different kind of problem. the securitized assets, and this is where they sliced them and diced them, they are only held by big banks. the intermediate sized banks have a lot of toxic assets.

and so here is congress trying to -- rather the treasury putting the program together. it's modest, and it's aimed only at the big boys. >> these assets were priced at what they are really worth now, and if that happened these banks would still be under water. >> this is the problem. back when you had market to march ked, and if the market said it was $100, you have to carry it on your books as worth $100, and then they said, well, they can use these other forms and you can carry them on your books at a higher level than what the market would treat them. now the problem is the banks say why do i want to sell them? because if i sell them, i have to sell them down at the lower

market value, and that means i have to recognize the loss. and some of them are going to be gone. >> yeah, we have been lying to ourselves. i have to say, one of the things that we push for in the report, once again, every time we talk about transparency. if we don't have bookkeeping that everybody can believe in -- >> yeah, exactly. we could have -- people talked about it, we have the first hit and then the market goes back up, and then the second one is coming. if a lot of these banks are under water, if you price these assets, what they are worth, can you have a second big hit here, couldn't you? >> you could have real trouble. i will now make it worse. and that is in addition to what we have got with the toxic assets that we identified, with the home mortgages not paying off, and we have a problem coming on commercial mortgages. commercial mortgages come up for

mature ty later, and we are loog at 2010, 2011, 2012. and the estimates, we are talking about 50% and 60% default rate on these mortgages. now, this is -- this is a very serious problem, and, once again, one that will be concentrated in a lot of the intermediate and smaller banks, because they hold commercial mortgages. >> such a breath of fresh air. >> dan has a question for you. >> on the regulatory forms, what do you see as far as prospects getting passed before the end of the year? and there is an equivalent of a 9/11 commission. they want to try and go deep and understand how we got here. my understanding is that report, their report, the commission's report is not due until december

of 2010. you have all the activity on the hill for financial regulatory reform, and they will try and pass stuff, and then we will get the answers to the questions of how we got in this mess in the first place, and it will come after those are passed. it's backwards. >> i am not sure i agree if it's backwards. believe me, i can spend an entire career doing all the research. we know how to stretch that out. but the reality is, we are trying to rebuild the economy, and if the ideas behind rebuilding the economy is let's use a lot of bad practices we used over the last five years, and see if we get a bubble going, and let's rebuild the bomb, i would have to say, much of what is wrong and needs to be fixed is not rocket science. much of it, we can tell we need clearer rules and curbs on this

road. i think that moving in that direction tomorrow is exactly the right thing to do. >> remember after 9/11, the confusion that surrounded the attacks. what happened? and it took us about a year to start piecing things together. a month from now, we are coming up on the september 15th day, where lehman went down and our economy changed, and probably changed forever. in hindsight, you have been looking at this for almost a year, in hindsight was paulson right, if congress did not write the $700 billion check, would the economy have gone into a death spiral? would we have never recovered? we heard a lot of -- >> catastrophe, right. >> do you agree with that assessment? >> i will start with a plug for the industry i work in.

there will be about 1 million dissertations on that. >> what is your gut right now? a year from now, you may have a different answer. and for those of us, that felt like a gun was put to our heads and write the check or there goes our economy, but what is your opinion right now? >> there would have been real pain. very large financial institutions that would have gone down, but it wouldn't been death to all. the question about whether the world as we know it has ended, and if you think the world as we know it are a handful of the huge financial institutions, they are not going to exist

without huge infusions of government money. on the other hand, if what you really believe is our economy and our world is, you know, 115 million american households, they are out there, you start to see it differently, and you say if the dinosaurs are gone, there are still a lot of stuff to be done. a lot of policy choices. >> i am glad to say the too big to fail world ended on september 15th. i don't think that we will make the same mistakes. and let's hope not. we are bumbling through the dark right now. >> elizabeth, thank you very much for coming in. coming up, he was involved in the founding of medicare and medicaid. we will talk to health secretary to get his take on health reform. up next, u.s. ambassador to

united nations. by the way, we have nbc news' number one diva with us, savannah guthrie. >> it's amazing. >> yeah, i required the candles this morning. >> you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. r tal . plus, if another orbitz customer then books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there.

welcome back to "morning joe." a quick update on your wednesday's forecast. carry the umbrella with you today from the new york area to philadelphia, and possibly in hartford and albany, too. and possible airport delays and thunderstorms in atlanta today, and minneapolis, and kansas city and st. louis, much of the west coast is nice with the exception of seattle, rainy for you.

and this could be tropical storm anna during the day today. coming up next here on "morning joe," and only eight feet away from me, u.s. ambassador to the united nations. doctor susan rice. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

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welcome back to "morning joe." a live chopper shot over new york city. pretty morning there. >> it is. >> here with us, u.s. ambassador to the united nations, dr. susan rice joining us on the show. nice to see you again. >> it's great to be with you guys. >> i take it you are giving a big speech and it's pertaining the approach from the president to the u.n. >> we recognize the united nations is not something that we have the luxury of stiff arming or dissing, in a world where the threats we face are things like proliferation or disease. we need to maximize the shared security. in that context, the united nations becomes more important. we are standing up to principles and values. we are advancing our interests. it's not going to be easy.

it's a complex organization. but we are already seeing dividends when countries are working with us, and working on things that matter to us, like imposing sanctions for north korea, and working together to strengthen the u.n.'s capacity to strengthen the ties. >> andrea mitchell? >> hi, ambassador rice. good to see you. what about north korea now? we had the indians going against a ship, which might have proliferations? do we think that there is a chance of real engagement? what do we learn from what bill clinton learned from kim

jong-il? >> well, what you referred to, it's being implemented by many all over the world. we saw the indians step up their efforts. these sanctions are tight and being enforced and we think they will have an impact. what north korea needs to realize, not withstanding the clinton visit and the relief we feel for the release of those two women journalists, is that they have international obligations and they need to adhere to them. we are prepared to work by laterally, but only if the north koreans get serious and implement the commitments they already made. >> dr. rice, we have nbc's chief white house diva with us right now, savannah guthrie --

>> what happened to willie geist? >> he is not a diva. savannah guthrie has a question for you. >> ignore everything joe just said, please. >> i try to. >> well, i want to ask you about iran, you and the president have talked about their being a time line here, that this country would reassess its offer of engagement to iran by september when the u.n. gets together. i wonder what that means in real life, in practice? are you saying if we don't have a positive response from iran that that offer expires? >> no, we are not setting any artificial deadlines. the united states is determined to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapons capacity. we think that one important avenue to try and achieve that is through engagement, and we will be looking in september in

consultations with our partners in the security council plus japan, and we will assess the situation and see where we are and consider the next steps. actually, and ultimately, if iran refuses to respond in a timely and constructive way, that will influence our course obviously, and we'll consider a range of options, including the potential for additional pressure. >> pat buchanan? >> dr. rice, according to the national intelligence estimate, the iranians stopped their reach for nuclear weapons in 2003, and have not diverted apparently, and is it the official position of the government of the united states that iran is now actively seeking nuclear weapons? >> pat, i don't think that position has ever changed whether in the bush administration or the obama administration. our view is it's unacceptable

for iran to acquire nuclear weapons. it has the right to peaceful use, civilian use of nuclear power, but we have a reason to believe that this is not in fact what they are pursuing. in that context we are to prevent them from acquiring any nuclear weapons capacity. >> we are talking about hillary clinton and the job she has done as second of state. tell us about the trip to africa? >> willie, i think she is off to a great start. she has been a tremendous secretary of state. the trip to africa has given her an opportunity to really dig in and show just how much wisdom and how much strength and sta a stamina she has. reaffirming and restarting what had been a complex and fraught relationship with africa, and in the last couple days she has been in the republic of congo,

and pledged additional american support to help the victims, and to irratcate impunity. >> well, the bottom line is there is a consistent policy it seems from the obama administration regarding africa. it's a message of tough love. it's a message that demands reform. that's positive, isn't it? >> absolutely positive. it's a message of partnership. the fact is some 40-plus years after most countries achieved independence, there are not excuses anymore, and their economic development is something that we and others want to assist with, but can only succeed in the context of real efforts to fight

corruption, and build peace and democracy. that's the message the president delivered while he was in ghana. >> ambassador rice, we wish we were newspaper new york with you. >> i am a little ticked. my first time i am in new york, and you are in washington. >> yeah, we are back in your old stomping grounds. do you think she would invite me to lunch at the united nations if you came along with me? >> i would love to have lunch with you guys, but next time i come on, i want to be at the table with you. >> darn straight, yeah. what are you going to say? >> yeah, i knew she was a d diplomat, she had to say yes. >> thank you very much.

coming up, the reigning in of health care. up next, joe, and then mark haines after that. keep it right here on "morning joe." the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda® with fiber.

mark haines live at the new york stock exchange. what do we expect from the feds today? >> nothing. >> mark haines, thank you so much. back to you. >> okay. joseph -- wait, he is not on set. we have to continue with this. what do you mean, mark, with nothing? >> well, the rates are zero. they are not going to raise rates, and housing is still struggling and the economy is still struggling. it's what they say at 2:15.

if you want-to-be the first one to know that, you have to watch cnbc's "street signs," and i forget who anchors that. anyway. at 2:15, the statement will come out, and that's what will move or not move the market. >> are we looking at warnings of inflation a inflationary pressures? >> well, nobody wants to here that. i think they may make a statement about how long they plan to continue propping up the markets, maybe something about that. but the best thing for everybody is if they say absolutely nothing new. and they expect that things will turn the corner and get better, even though their profits are

awful. on the trade deficit, that widens slightly, but largely because of that spike we had in the price of oil, back up to 70-75 bucks. that impacted the trade deficit. that does not mean we are buying more crap from china. the futures are tame. not pointing one way or the other. it's all about the fed's statement at 2:15. and mrs. burnett will give it to you first if you are watching "street signs" at 2:15. >> you are pretty damn great yourself, mark rains? >> yes, i am. >> mark haines, live on the streets with cnbc. what is next? >> up next, we have joe.

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welcome back to "morning joe." in 1965, president lyndon johnson signed medicare and medicaid into law. more than 40 years later the debate on how to control the cost continues with medicare spending projected to hit almost $1 trillion by 2018, double what it is today. with us now, a man involved in

the passage of that legislation, former chief domestic aide to president johnson, and former secretary of health, joe call fa califano. and joe, thank you so much, joe califano, for being with us. you were obviously working on medicare and medicaid back in 1965. when you look at what the administration is doing now, are they following the lessons of history? >> well, i don't know. i think both the congress and treasury are consumed with sick care. go back to medicare and medicaid. in order to pass them, we had to agree to give doctors their fee for service, and let them set their own price, their usual fees. we had to give hospitals costs,

plus reimbursement, and let them basically have no incentive for efficiency. and the most important lesson, i think, is trying to predict costs. we looked at the world as it was in 1965. remember, when we passed medicare and medicaid, there were no mris or cat stacans or drugs for chemotherapy. that, and the other thing, nobody -- believe me, nobody in 1965 expected this phenomenal leap in life expectancy. those two things dramatically changed. and to think now -- i think it's one of the things that is really out of whack to me, to think that anybody can predict what the cost are going to be 10 years out, it's not real. we are on the verge of revolution in neurology, and

genetics, and artificial limbs, you know, domino transplants. there is a whole new world of medicine coming that nobody knows. i think that's really an important lesson for people to learn. to me the only way to save costs in a serious way is to keep people out of the sick care system. >> joe, i remember that debate in '65. you had 295 people in the house. you rolled it right through the congress. barack obama, apparently we had a poll last week, he is at 35% on approval of how he is handling the health care, and 52% disapproval. if you were advising him, what do you tell him to change? >> well, i think the president needs to have a plan. one of the problems now is, and you see it in the debates and the problems in the town halls, not a plan, not some simple proposal out there that people can relate to.

number two, i think that there probably has to be a real insurance about medicare. i know that there is a lot of wild stuff going on there, and that's unfortunate. but there is deep concern about medicare. on the one hand, congress says we will leave medicare the way it was, and then they say they are going to take a half a trillion dollars out of medicare. that scares older people. >> i want to ask you, joe, one of the big challenges that you talk about costs that confronts obama, which is expanding coverage, but at the same time cutting the costs which are going to go up and up and up. how do you achieve both goals at once? >> well, you cover preventive services, and you cover doctors, and give annual exams. you cover vaccinations for pneumonia, and the flu and things like that, and if they

don't get the vaccinations, you say, okay, you will pay the health care costs. you get vaccinations that way. >> willie and i are listening eagerly, because willie and i both have kids. it seems overwhelming when i look at kids, 16 and 17 and 18 years old, and it's the drug culture. in middle class and upper middle class, and well-educated families, it seems overwhelming. we were talking about it during the break, and raising little kids in manhattan, it's scary. >> you know, this book -- this book is based on 17 years of work by a lot of people. i wrote it, and it's designed to -- it was written because of two very important things. we learned in 17 years of research that getting your kids through age 21, without smoking and using illegal drugs and without abusing alcohol, most will drink.

that child is certain to be home free for the rest of his or her life. the greatest influence on kids for better or worse is parents. this book is about to tell parents to be engaged with your kids, and how to be engaged. what are those moments in a child's life when they are at an increased risk of using drugs, the first few months of college or high school, and one of the conditions, they have a learning disability. be aware of their friends. kids don't get kids from somebody in a trench coat, they get them from classmates and friends. parents should know friends. there is a difference between boys and girls. >> what is the difference? >> one, the way boys exhibit use. they want to be sensation seeking, and tend to do outrageous public things, jump in the pool with clothes on, or fight or drive drunk.

and girls, itself medicating or depression, particularly during puberty. i brought a book for willie, and joe and mika -- >> we have our "morning joe" right here. joe califano. >> he needs we need these books, and it's probably a good idea for mika to have one as well. >> thank you very much. >> i thought you were talking about women heavily -- self medicating, and we thought you were talking about mika. thank you so much, joe califano. we greatly appreciate it. let's talk about medicare and medicaid.

what does a president do going forward after yesterday's explosive town hall meetings? >> i think there was disappointment in the white house, where they did not want it -- it was not that they wanted to have hecklers and shouting. and the president was a worthy advocate. that would have been an opportunity for them. if some crazy person comes in there, it's the opportunity for the president to be his best barack obama. >> like mika said, nobody does it better than barack obama in answering those types of things. >> he did look for skeptics, and he did call on what appeared to be an 8-year-old girl. i don't know how you think you are going to get a toughie there. >> pat, go inside the white house. what do you advise the president to do moving forward on reframing the health care debate? >> i will say what i said last week, he has to sit down with

his guys, and he has to say when september comes around can we get the government option and the rest of it, and get good advice from the hill, and make your call whether you want to go for whole hog or pull this thing back and put something together that can you get through. he is at a point where he will have to decide on the whole thing or something. >> dan senor, what is the republican plan of attack? obviously, they want to clamp down on the hard extremists to the right, but what can republicans do to derail the bill? dan must be having a drink with donny deutsch. >> let's put the question to you. it's pertaining to what their next move should be. >> sure, what would you do? >> i would say there is nothing in the constitution of the united states that requires barack obama that requires barack obama to do everything at once in one year. enough is enough. >> pull back the whole thing? >> yeah, if i were running the

house and the senate, i would tell all of my representatives, and senators, go out to town hall meetings and hold them every day, and sit there and smile and be respectful and listen to people and show how america is on our side here. talk about it. this is what has happened over the past six months, and talk about the stimulus plan. how huge it was and how it didn't work. talk about cap and trade. feed in to what colin powell said three weeks ago. i would go back, and hey, even colin powell, a guy that supported barack obama said he overloaded the circuit and tried to do too much. and let's tell the president that the president needs to understand. he has three priorities now. jobs, jobs and jobs. turn the economy around. and then worry about all the other things. >> when you get into the town hall meetings, though, you might have a terrific explanation of arguments and things like that. what will the tv camera show on

the news? >> republicans are democrats? >> well, i think democrats getting into the meetings, i think it's a good thing, and the guy saying god is going to sit in judgment on you, and that's the sound byte that comes through. >> here is the problem that i find most politicians make, when they need to act decisively and make a black or white decision, they muddle through it and do a slow bleed until they die politically. barack obama needs to say today, we are going to radically transform the health care system, and make the dramatic changes, and -- nancy pelosi and these people, or we are going to have to pull back. i think the best political move is just talking pure politics, because you don't get punished for retreating. >> we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. we learned so much today, mika, but what did you learn? >> i liked what claire mccaskill had to say, about this and town halls being american at its best, and sometimes at its worse. it seemed to have tough moments. >> yeah, claire mccaskill embraced the challenge many are

facing. and then the left saying these people are saying -- come on. sometimes democrats gets sloppy. i have seen it firsthand. buchanan has seen it firsthand. i never had salad dressing smeared on my head. >> yeah, arlen specter, he let that guy talk to him in the face, and it did him a world of good. >> yeah, the front page of "new york times," and it shows arlen specter staring down a man screaming and out of control. there are ways for democrats to turn this to their advantage. now, no way to stop divas from being divas. we learned that today. savannah guthrie -- in between, and every break, she is swearing and yelling and