we're back with more "politics fix." the white house completed today this perfect execution on the confirmation of sonia sotomayor. how can this same operation that handled that so beautifully, they were told by republicans, do not try to get her confirmed that fast. we will get in the way. they steam rolled right past them. they confirmed her past. how can that same team be so fwog boged down on health care reform. >> they got bogged down a lit bit about the issue of her speeches and wise latina remarks. but in the end, she's one person. she had a record of some

speeches. she certainly had a judicial record but she was finite. you could examine everything she stood for and you could say yes, she's qualified or no she isn't. and they decided she was qualified. i understand why this is harder. i just think before that obama now needs to step up and really define some of the issues that he has left undefined because he is losing the momentum at this point. >> what's your recommendation for republican house members, just stay quiet? august and let the democrats trip over themselves? >> i think they should be talking to their members carefully, getting their message out, but largely i think this is a democratic battle with itself right now. the republican job is to drive useful messages. >> thank you. tony blankley, one of the most honorable republicans i know but still can't admit what the truth is in this debate. join us tomorrow for more "hardball." right now it's time for the "ed shultz show" with ed shultz.

>> i'm ed shultz. this is the "ed show." good evening, americans. live from 30 rock in new york, it's "the ed show" on msnbc. tonight, believe it or not, it's democrats versus democrats in the heartland over health care. a key ally in the fight joins me in just a moment. also, ohio senator sharrod brown just wrapped up a huge town hall. he'll tell us if the dumber than joe the plumber crazies showed up and are they really going to stop real reform in this country. and a ron paul supporter showed up at a new hampshire rally with a loaded gun. the congressman will join us and give his take however people

will go in this live free or die motto. the atf says the only thing a new movement is lacking is a spark. we'll show you the dangers and who these folks are and where they are. plus karl rove firing squad? ah-ha. new evidence reveals that the turd blossom himself was a driving force in the politically driven motivation of a u.s. attorney and eight others. we'll explain how the house judiciary committee is going to be dealing with that. a "psycho talk" encore. and we've got a great panel showing up on all the hot topics. and one quick note before we get to the op-ed, the fed did not raise the interest rates today. you know that oobama economy? it went up 120 points. but first, tonight's op-ed. well, the fear card being played by the righties is now, i guess

you could say a fever pitch. the numbers are showing that the obama administration is in trouble with some demographics. senior citizens are believing this right wing garbage, believe it or not. the very people -- and this is what gets me -- the very people that get government assistance in health care are now actually turning on the president of the united states. this isn't about reform. it's about politics. dirty politics. blatant lies. that's what they are. conservati conservative democrats seem to be buying into some of this trash talking. and that's exactly what it is. in the middle of the country, there is a battle raging between democrats. progressive groups are just hammering away at senator ben nelson. >> for six years i've owned this store in nebraska. my health care agent called and said my rates are going to go up

42%. i can't afford that. i told him i may have to cancel the coverage. i just pray my kids don't get hick. when president obama proposed a public health care ogs, that's exactly what my family needs. now i hear that ben nelson, the senator that i voted is leading the charge to delay health reform this summer. that's exactly what they want. the health and insurance companies that have given senator nelson over $2 million know that if they can stall reform, they can kill it. i have to ask -- senator, whose side are you on? if you're on my side, stay at work. my family can't wait for reform. >> lefties, this is a classic. i'll tell you why. senator nelson is a four-time statewide elected official. he was the governor of the state of nebraska. but the senator is on such shaky ground he has to fire back with this ad to straighten it all out. >> you've probably been hearing a lot about health care reform.

and like too much stuff that comes out of washington it's hard to know what's fact and what's fiction. so i want you to hear my principles, straight from me. first, any plan must keep spending under control, help our small businesses, improve care, control costs. and most of all, the plan needs to work for nebraska. i'm ben nelson and i approve this message because you can count on me to always put nebraska first, always. >> i can't be any more fair. we played both of those ads. i want to point out four big points in that ad. keep spending under control. everybody onboard with that? help small businesses. sure sounds good. improve care, we all have got to be for that. and control costs. may i point out that in the arena of fairness, senator nelson, president obama addressed all of those things at town hall meeting in portsmouth, new hampshire, yesterday. it's called public option.

exchange is what it's called if you want to use that terminology. senator, you say you want to do what's right for nebraskans. let's go inside the numbers. in 2008, 70,000 people in the state of nebraska were on medicare. 460,000 were uninsure between 2007 and 2008. let's check the numbers. that's nearly 30% in the state of nebraska without insurance. that's about 1 out of every 3 people? now those are the folks that you ought to be talking to, senator nelson. now, the public option, the exchange, whatever you want to call it, helping small businesses. look, that's what it's all about. that's what the president wants to do. now, i don't understand why the skon serve tif democrats just can't pull their boot straps up and say i'm with the president. i'm with president obama. what is it about the heartland? is it the money from big insurance?

is it the money from big medical? is it pharma? what is it from north dakota to texas, in the heart of the country, the silver-haired belt, that these geezers are so nervous in buying into what i'm now going to call grassley garbage because that's exactly what it is. helping small businesses. gosh, that sounds awfully good. that's exactly what the public option and the exchange would do. it would give competition to the private sector because the private sector is running away with rates. ask yourself the question tonight, are you really happy with your insurance premium? i got a guy who's not happy with his insurance premium. we caught up with a small business owner who was in the ad that you just saw. joining me now is mike snyder. he is the owner of the sizzling skill let restaurant in nebraska. there isn't anything more american than the sizzlin' sk l skillet in nebraska.

i appreciate you coming on the program. in that ad you said that your rates are going up 42%. is that true? >> that's correct, i got my notice right here in front of me. if you take this number that they're going to start charging me in september, compared to what i'm taiing now, it's a 42% increase. >> okay. and you voted for senator nelson, that's what you said in that ad, correct? >> that's absolutely correct, yep. >> how do you feel for the senator now based on this issue, could you vote for him again? >> it's going to be tough to do it again. it's going to be real tough to vote for him another time. >> you hear the president say he wants to help small businesses and you've gotta bill this your hand, a 42% increase what does that mean to you?

>> well, public option is -- i think it's just going to create competition. one of the things i noticed in senator nelson's ad is is the term was missing was competition. i did not hear that when he listed out his principles. if we get competition in there, which by putting in the public option, that's going to be good for me, it's going to be good for small business, it's going to be good for all kinds of people that are getting these big increases, because it's going to kind of help reel in the insurance companies. >> okay. so moving forward, what are you going to do? cancel your insurance and hope your kids don't get sick like you said in the ad? or are you going to suck it up and find the money somewhere in the business and get it done? >> well, i haven't decided exactly what i'm going to do yet. by going through this process, i found out there's actually somewhat of a public option in nebraska. it's called nebraska chip and it's been around since 1985.

i don't see the insurance companies going out of business. i'm going to look at that option. like i said, i never heard of it before, but once it got the attention, got brought up to it, then i found out about it. >> and finally, mike in your restaurant, i know what it's like in the heartland and cafes. that's where people get together and have a cup of coffee and talk about what's going on. what are you hearing, the restaurant might be a daily town hall. what are you hearing from your customers on this? >> well, i can tell you that since the ad broke, i've had people just walk in and come in and just shake my hand and say thank you. i'm going to say the response has been about 90% -- more than 90% positive. people that understand what's going on want the public option. the people that are -- that have said something negative about it to me, they're under the impression that i'm asking for free medical care. that's not what i'm looking for. i'm looking for fair,

affordable, accessible health care for not only for me, but for everybody. >> mike snyder, good to have you on "the ed show" tonight. thanks for standing up and being an american in the middle of the country, just telling like it is for small business. thanks for your time tonight. i want to know what you think, folks. what's a bigger threat to health care reform. con conservative democrats who can't stand up or the town hall screamers? text a for conservative democrats and b for town hall screamers. we'll bring you the results later on in the program tonight. now, republicans are using every tactic they can to scare the living daylights out of seniors. and thanks to senators like kruk grassley, they're getting 'er done. they're still scared. listen to what he said in a town hall today in winteris the erk iowa. >> i won't name people in congress or people in washington, but there's some people that think it's a terrible problem that grandma is

laying in the hospital bed with tubes in her hp in a house bill there's counseling for end of life. and from that standpoint, you have every right to fear. we should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> tell america he's actually read the house bill. i thought he was working so hard on the senate finance committee. here's the deal. and listen. this is a key point. in the senate help people and on the health care side, this is reimbursement to the doctor who is working with you in dealing with your grandma, who may be close to dieing. so we're going to reimburse the doctor for talking to you about a family issue.

what is wrong with that? joining me now is ohio senator, sharrod brown a member of the health, education, labor and pensions committee. senator, good to have you with us tonight. appreciate your time. are you amazed at the misinformation that is out there in the town halls that's being thrown at you and other members of the congress? at the level that it's gotten to. >> in some sense i'm amazed. in another sense i've been doing this long enough i shouldn't be. you think the average executive is making $8 million a year. they kind of like that $8 million a year and that's why these insurance industry people in washington, these lobbying firms are peddling all this fear. they're trying to kill grandma to socialism so they're taking over your health care system to all the kind of things they're saying to scare people. and people should be ashamed of that. i mean, these insurance lobbyists and politicians it's the same crowd that's trying to play into barack obama wasn't

born in the united states. they're just playing to people's fears. they're scaring people and it's costing us in the polls. we're going to get this bill done and do it right, but the reason we do these down hall meetings and you do this show, the reason is to correct this disinformation. and it's pretty outrageous, but we need to continue to be patient and fight back. >> the numbers are starting to dwind wl senior citizens across the country. and the most recent nbc news poll, who opposes health care reform. the numbers, 49% are over 65 years of age. 38% are under 65 years of age. the president has clearly spoken to this, saying that we're not going to take your medicare. in fact, correct me if i'm wrong, senator brown, are the democrats not working very hard to increase the level of medicare reimbursement rates. yes or no? >> of course we are, and democrats are working to keep prescription drug prices down.

we want to see the drug -- we want to see medicare negotiate directly with the drug companies to bring prices down. yesterday i was in dover, ohio, community in eastern ohio. speaking with the chamber of commerce, actually. a woman stood up who was not a chamber of commerce member. she was in her 70s, her 80s. she said i don't want government in my health care. i'm against socialized medicine. i said are you on medicare by chance? she said yeah. i said how is it working snout she says i love medicare, it works just fine. and she's just one of those -- she's one of the opponents to the obama health care plan because she doesn't want government doing health care. we've got an education job to do. that's why your show is important. all we're trying to do in august leading back into september to pass this bill, all that work is so important. >> and what do you make of senator grassley -- and i'm not trying to pitch you against one of your colleagues in the senate, but basically today, he endorsed sarah palin and the death panel.

he says in the house bill you should be concerned that there is going to be a panel. when you've got people of that stature in the united states sdmat telling people this back in their home state, how the held are you going to fight that? >> the original provisions on this reimbursement of medicare for counseling bay doctor, by religious counselor or social worker, the original language, now republicans are making it out to be some sort sof euthanasia. i'm waiting for national republicans to stand up and say, you know, that -- to say this is all fear tactics on euthanasia, and also i'm waiting for national leading prominent republicans to say something about this whole birther movement. barack obama was born in the united states. there's no question about it. the way mike castle, a republican from delaware did

pip'm waiting on eric cantor and john boehner and mitch mcconn l mcconnell. it's a third of their republican party believes that. >> senator, that takes leadership and i don't think they've got it. great to have you with us. >> always a pleasure, ed. glad to do your show. >> i have a request of the white house tonight. i would like president obama to stop saying that chuck grassley is working on a bipartisan level to try to get health care reform done in this country. no he's not. he said today blame me for this delay. he wants to be known as the guy who stopped the obama movement in this country when it comes to health care reform. i thought we just had an election. coming up what a surprise. bush's brain has his fingerpr t fingerprints all over the partisan firing of u.s. attor y attorneys. a key member of the house judiciary committee explains how she's not going to let him get away with it. that's next on "the ed show" on msnbc. fuel efficient choice.

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coming up, karl rove may now be closer to facing charges for a firing of a u.s. attorney. everyday acids can cause irreversible loss of enamel. new crest pro-health enamel shield protects against enamel loss by forming a micro-thin shield against acid attack. only crest pro-health toothpastes protect all these areas. new crest pro-health enamel shield.

we have more ef confirming bush's brain was behind the unjustified partisan firing of nine u.s. attorneys back in

2006. thoufs internal e-mails and transcripts of congressional testimony from the turd blossom himself were just released and they're very telling. they make it very clear the bush white house quarterbacked by karl rove played a big role in kicking those attorneys to the curb. joining me now is congresswoman melissa sanchez who chaired the committee investigating the firings. thanks for joining us. >> not at all. >> did you expect these e-mails were going to surface and they would contain this kind of information? >> well, you know, when they dragged their feet for 2 1/2 years in producing documents that we had subpoenaed and requested, you know, there had to be a reason why they didn't want to turn that information over. and the reason they didn't is because it's very clearly damaging testimony that contradicts all of their statements that they had nothing

to do with the firing of u.s. attorneys. and so, you know, late in the process. the e-mails show very clearly that there was involvement very early on and that most of the decision making was driven by political consideration. >> so the fact is, the way it's playing out, if we can view it this way, after bush won re-election, there was basically an attack on the judiciary. and they were going to go after u.s. attorneys who were not prosecuting democrats strong enough across the country. and there's also some comments within the white house, for instance, harriet myers says she remembers karl rove was so upset about one u.s. attorney in particular. do you feel that there were any laws broken here at this point? could you point to anything that you really believe the laws were broken here? >> well, i think certainly there was information contained in the e-mails which suggest that the u.s. attorneys were fired for improper reasons, and there may have been testimony in front of

congress that was false or misleading. so obstruction of justice or possible perjury charges are still available. there's a federal prosecutor right now who is investigating. we've turned all of those documents over to her. we're reviewing to see if there are any criminal charges to be brought. >> one congressman said this -- democrats need to stop wasting tax payers' time and money on political investigations that are nothing more than the politics of personal obstruction. >> they don't want investigation when it's their people under investigation for possible criminal activity. but when the shoe is on the other foot, they're alleging all kinds of things against democrats. it's very clear to me they want this embarrassment behind them.

they want to sweep it under the rug. they don't want to deal with the fact that there's a very serious problem. and that is the department of justice which is supposed to dispense justice without fear of fave tim was being used, strong armed like political operatives to do potentially illegal things and corrupting our system of justice is a very, very critical and important thing we need to look at. shepard and finally, if you had to say something to attorney general eric holder about this, what would it be? >> if i could just make a plea to the attorney general, it would be to not allow this to go uninvestigated and to please make sure that the department of justice is never used for political, grubby political agendas like it was under the bush administration. >> so you want the doj to investigate them. you want them to get involved and go beyond the house investigation at this point?

>> absolutely. i want them to hold people accountable for their hidden, nasty, dirty little political agendas. >> congresswoman, i appreciate your time tonight. thanks so much. >> thank you, ed. >> and she's back. michelle botman. stay with us. two medium cappuccinos,

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i. >> oh, question. it's time for "psycho talk" on "the ed show" tonight. it's been a while since we've heard from michelle bachmann. do you remember when she went after a bill that expanded americorps. let's refresh your memory. >> i think there's a strong chance we will see that young people will be put into mandatory service and there's a real concern that there are provisions for what i would call re-education camps for young people where young people have to go and get trined in a philosophy that the government puts forward and then they have to go work in some of these politically correct forums. as a parent, i would have a very, very difficult time seeing my children do this. >> well, we are here tonight to inform you that a young man named harrison bachmann has just

joined teach for america. yes, he is the congresswoman's son. yes, teach for america is part of americorps. yes, she voted against the bill named for ted kennedy. i don't know whether to congratulate you for raising a son that is willing to be unselfish and pitch in and help teach kids or to commiserate with you, congresswoman, because it seems your son has fallen prey to your so-called democratic conspiracy, the one you ripped last year. >> they want americans to take transit and move to the inner cities. they want americans to move to the urban core, live in tenements and take light rail to their government jobs. that's their vision of america. >> i don't know if this is your way of rebelled, but i want to

applaud you all the same. and i will make sure we do not investigate your son for any anti-american views and congratulations for staying in "psycho talk." now coming up on "the ed show" the politics of hate. in the past 24 hour, we've witnessed a loaded gun at a presidential town hall, hateful threats towards illegal immigrants and a swastika in front of a congressman's office. come on, what is next? a leading expert on tracking the whack cos joins me at the bottom of the hour. and later, i've got some tough love in north dakota. they've got a lot of nerve carrying on in what they are talking about a town hall meeting when they're sitting at the trough taking so much government money. that's next. [ female announc] introducing the latest

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welcome back to "the ed show." last year, the department of homeland security warned that, quoting white supremacists and militias are more violent and thus more likely to conduct mass casualty attacks on the scale of the 1995 oklahoma city bombing. there's a new report out that backs up this prediction. joining me now is the man who wrote that report, mark potuk of the southern poverty law center. mark, good to have you with us tonight. appreciate your time. if you had to roll back the clock, what would you compare this to, say,iesteryear when and what situation? >> well, it is a kind of rebirth

of the militia 1990s. this is a hot movement in the middle '90s to the late '90s that produced a lot of domestic terrorism or attempted domestic terrorism. i would say this time it has a much stronger racial element because at the end of the day these groups see their primary enemy as the federal government and the federal government today, the face of that government is black. there's a lot of feeling about that. >> when alcohol, tobacco and firearms comes out and says all it's going to take is is a little spark, how are viewers supposed to take that tonight when they hear that? >> well, i think it's a real accurate assessment. there are a great many groups out thereto that have formed recently. some of the older groups have been energized. there's a lot of evidence to suggest that people are collecting arms, creating arms caches and so on. and now we have this huge amount of white hot rhetoric, which stretches all the way from the

bonified militia and so-called patriot groups to the michelle bachmann's of the world, to the protestors at the various town hall meetings. i think we're in a situation that's very worrying. >> some of the postings own the internet, one on youtube had over 60,000 views. let's listen to it out of state of the ohio. >> america, this is your wake-up call from the militia. you people need to wake up, start buying some of these. see? ask yourself, why do you not have one of these? go out and buy a gun, okay? they're not that expense, okay? you can get a gun. buy lots and lots of ammo for these guns, okay? >> now mark, what's causing this? is it a black president? is it the democrats having the

white house, the house and the senate? health care reform? what is really the steroid here that's making this happen with these groups? >> i think it's deaf nilt loy each one of those things you mentioned. it's the bad economy and ultimately it's above all the changing demographics in this country. you know, there's been heavy white immigration for the last seven, eight years. he kind of sucked in all the people worrying about border crossers and so on. >> mark, appreciate your time tonight from the southern poverty law center. thanks so much for your insight on this. for more, let's to our panel tonight. the chief white house correspondent and political

writer for the new york times, the former republican congressman earnest iztuk is with us tonight. let me go to you first. how do you take this information when alcohol, tobacco and fireafir firearms comes out and says we're on a heightened alert for such an activity like this. what do you make of it? >> i don't think that's a correct statement from atf. we've always had instances of the left and the right. homeland security warned about both. remember the unabomber. he was on the fringes of the left. remember the big protest of the left wing anarchist. thousands of them running wild in the streets in seattle. and remember all the threats against bush's motorcade in portland, oregon, saying about the same kind of stuff as you're now condemning from the town hall protestors. >> what do you think is causing this right now? >> i think you've always got people upset on the left and the right.

and the people, whoever they see as in power, they'll see, you know, you'll have the people in opposition to them will come more to the surface. but they're both there on both sides all the time. that is not a reason to discount the justifiable concerns of the vast majority of the people turning out at town hall meetings. >> i would think a two-part question, i would think that when the representatives and senators come back after all these town halls, they might have their eyes opened to what's going on across america? >> i think so. and a lot of these officials are pretty good at dealing with extremists that have been out there for a while. and i do think, you know, a lot of us in the media industry, ed, as you know, are giving a lot of attention to some of these people that are just idiots, saying stuff that doesn't make any sense. the kind of people raising the specter, is this going to become

russia or communist china? that's just idiot stuff. i make a distinction between the garden variety morons and people who belong in mental hospitals and carrying guns and organizing militias. fortunately i think that number is quite small. >> roy, the internet obviously is a superhighway for all of these groups pit's easy for them toe connect, communicate, organize, all of these things. but it is also -- it seems to be the health care debate that launches to a new level. how many of these militia folks don't have health care or have health care. what's your take on it. >> what we have here is a perfect storm, you know coming together for the lunatic fringe. we have a half black president with a jewish chief of staff and he nominated the first latina supreme court justice. then you throw in the bad economy and you throw in the fear that the guns are going to go away and suddenly you have a ticking time bomb.

i think you have to admit, though, the obama administration has played a little bit of a part in this. they're handling the bank bailout and the health care debate. i think it's thrown fuel on the fire. you know, there's a big portion out there who think that -- they buy into reagan's perception that remember, the government is the problem. when off bank bailout and the banks get trillions of dollars and the average guy is losing his job and when you're getting big pharma a great deal behind doors, i think people are thinking the fix is in and this helps raise the answer. >> what if the bank bailout kept us from going into a depression? that might make things a little worse. >> it's a perception of fairness i think is the question. and it's the fact that it's behind closed doors and the lack of transparency, i think that's what fuels this conspiracy. and like john said, it doesn't help that we're giving all this air time to the birther movement which is hand in hand with the deather movement. >> congressman, what would be

your advice to calm the fears of these groups that seem to be going over the edge with their internet rhetoric and some of the things that we've seen? what would you say to them? would you say keep going? >> no, i would say to everybody, you know, people that have legitimate concerns you need to listen to them, rather than making accusations that may radicalize people more. i think roy was making that point. i remember someone who made a death threat against me when i was in congress. they were threateni to kill and dismember me. he was upset because i would not support legalizing marijuana. so you have extremists all over the place. >> and finally, would it be a pro for somebody in a high position in government to address this undercurrent that's going on in america.

>> i do think, again, maybe i'm pollyanna, but i've got think those real extremists out there arming and militias and the kind of people that made that video is a pretty small number of people and i don't know. coming out of the 2008 elections, it didn't quite feel to me like the country was a tinderbox ready to explode but we'll see. >> this is all within the last six months. we've got more coming up. and coming up b i'm going to be putting ron paul, congressman in the hot seat. we'll see what he has to say about one of his support es who brought a loaded gun to a health care rally in new hampshire yesterday. that's next in my "playbook." hey smart, heard you're gettg free nights from hotels.com.

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w, that's progressive. call or click today. >> one protestor got a lot of attention when he showed up with a loaded gun a sidearm. he mentioned that he was a ron paul supporter and that piqued my curiosity. i want a reaction from the congressman. he joins us on the line now, deep in the heart of texas. congressman, thank you for your time tonight. what's your response to people showing up at a town hall meeting where the president is with a loaded gun. >> i think it really shows a remarkable restraint on the president and his secret service because they didn't overreact. they recognized what the state law was and that this man didn't break any laws and that he was just, you know, practicing a right that he had.

so i think this is very good and obama deserves credit for this. but i also think what this demonstrates is that it's -- it's the old conservative argument. it's not the gun that's the danger, it's the person that's dangerous. he's a peaceful person. he obeyed the law. he's not a man of violence and it went quite well. so i think it's a remarkable demonstration when you compare to what 19 individuals could do with razor blades versus one man with an armed pistol that happens to be a law-abiding citizen. >> so congressman, we know what the law is. he was perfectly legal. he was on private property. but doesn't it swla defy common sense to show up where the president is to show up with a loaded gun to prove a point. >> well, to him, it didn't. i wouldn't. i don't even own a gun. i wouldn't be interested in doing that. but now, he's expressing

himself. don't you think sometimes people use the first amendment and say terrible things and dumb things. and when the civil liberties union comes in and defends radical, violent people who are saying bad things. so i would think to demonstrate he has a right to do this, and he believes, as many people believe in an armed society is a more peaceful society and he proved his point. he was remarkable in moving his point that he's a peaceful man and caused no trouble. >> i don't have a jaded opinion because i'm a gun owner. i have deer rifles and shotguns and stuff like that. but we have had a situation in this country where a prisoner came up and overtook a guard and ended up shooting a judge and some other people in a courtroom. so i don't know how good that guy was in defending the fire armt if somebody wanted to go nuts in a crowd when they saw a gun. i'm not trying to overplay this because it has happened in this country.

>> you're describing something where the government is in charge of the courtroom. they should provide the safety. you just demonstrated the government failed on that part. the government had a chance to react here and i think they reacted rather remarkably. >> okay. well, but the same situation parent here is that something could have happened if someone had seen that and decided to go off the handle and take the gun and do something. i mean, i understand the freedom of speech and all this stuff and gun ownership, but it just defies common sense to pull a stunt like this to get some attention. i want to move the discussion to -- >> i don't think he was doing it for attention getting. that's the way he lives. that's the way a lot of people live up there. >> all right. well, i don't know if he carries a gun to work every day. >> i did a little campaigning up there and it was sort of a little bit of a surprise to me. i don't think shocking, but -- and i live in texas, you know,

and there's a lot of guns hanging on gun racks in pickup trucks. but it was a little surprising to me. >> great to have you on. appreciate your time tonight. >> all right. >> coming up, the town hall brawlers just faced down a contentious crowd of health care reform haters. hey, north dakotians quick taking that government handout. stay with us. you're the colon lady! diarrhea, constipation, gas, bloating. that's me!

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>> i'm 73. i'm one of those throwaways we've heard so much about. >> say it with me. $99 trillion that you get and your cohorts on capitol hill. how are you going to look at my children. >> just say no! just say no! >> i understand that some of you have already made up your minds. >> i tell you what, this crowd in many respects is dumber than joe the plumber. how many pieces of videotape have we seen where people show up. they don't know what the heck they're talking about. it is amazing how far misinformation goes in our society and how it gets picked up and it becomes folklore and spins out into outer space and the next thing you know,

everybody starts to believe it. this is a special set of circumstances and a real issue for the white house at this point. >> i think it's really, really tough to do. the president has taken this on directly several times and we see administration officials trying to refute this idea of death panels and that sort of thing. it's a fact that end of life care consumes an awful lot of health care expenditures that doesn't improve people's lives and longevity even. how do you talk about that? that's why the whole rationing discussion is toxic and difficult. i think the administration is going to have to push back as well as they can. not a lot of the republicans are voicing this in town halls.