>> if his view is he put his finger in the dike, that doesn't seem to be in a good position. that sounds like the dam is about to break. we don't know what his position is when he's negotiating behind closed doors and what he's doing trying to play to the crowd. there's an inside game and outside game. we don't know how large the gap is. >> roger simon, did that sound like an iowa senator in iowa saying what his audience wants to hear ready to go back to washington and work hard on health care reform? >> it sounds to me like an iowa politician playing to the crowd. iowa, in terms of the age of its population is one of the oldest states of the union, and one of the highest percentages of people who live in care facilities. seniors, 65 and over is the one

age group that barack obama did not carry. one reason is it's the most resistant group to change, which is obama's central message. people out there have their medicare and they're worried about anything changes that. we're only a few days from the 20th anniversary of the famous senior citizen riot in chicago, where danny rostokowski was chased down the streets by senior citizens, because he was trying to raise the cost for an added benefit that they didn't want. it didn't go through. it's very easy to scare seniors. chuck grassley doesn't need to do it to get reelected next year. >> roger, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you. join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more

"hardball." right now it's teem for "the ed show." i'm ed schultz, this is "the ed show. good evening americans, live from 30 rock in new york, it's "the ed show." what would jesus do while americans are vocal at town hall meetings, i find it very interesting that christian leaders are silent when it comes to the public option of health care in this country. i'm calling on christian leaders to step up and speak out, two passionate men of the cloth will join me. dick cheney back in the news. he says the statue of limitations has expired on many of his white house secrets. it turns out there was some love lost when bush stopped listening to shooter. sarah palin's doubling down on her death panel scare tactic,

accusing the president of misleading you when it comes to end of life care. at the bottom of the hour, the congressman who proposed that very passage in the house bill joins me to separate fact from fiction. also tonight, nbc news has obtained exclusive video of the tragic plane crash over the hudson river last saturday. you'll see it here first tonight on "the ed show." but first tonight's op-ed. ever wonder where the christian leaders are on health care and the public option? the christian right wing in this country, they have had no problem telling us how to vote in the past. back in 2004, the catholics went after tom daschle, preached against john kerry in 2004, and in 2008, the operatives tried to tell us that barack obama was not a christian. they've taken a strong stand on abortion, the marriage amendment and of course taxes, but why all

of the silence? why all of a sudden is there so much silence on health care in america from in crowd? the four most influential christian leaders in this country i think need to step up and speak up. i'm talking about rick warren, joel osteen, frankly graham, and mr. dobson. mr. dobson, you're in retirement, you can come out of retimplt for this one. people will listen to you. these christians leaders need to get engaged and support a christian president on the public option in providing health care for all americans. isn't it the christian thing to do? their silence is deafening. when jesus walked the face of the earth, he was feeding the hungry, clothing the poor and healing the sick. he didn't ask anybody for their health insurance card, and he didn't heal anybody for profit. yet we hear nothing from the christian leadership in this country on health care reform and the moral obligation we face as a nation to address this

issue. this piece of audio from the arlen specter town hall meeting really struck me earlier this week. >> one day god's going to stand before you, and he's going to judge you, and the rest of your damn cronies up on the hill. and then you will get your just desserts. >> so what's the makeup of these crowds? well, trust christian leaders should be leading their churches to support this president on health care reform. i'll say it again. rick warren, joel osteen, frankly graham and james dobson, let's just say that i think your silence is shameful what we are doing is sinful, and there should be an outcry from the christian community to support this president. don't stick your bible under your bed on this one. how the leaders can stand idle

and dreadfully silent while the insurance industry makes billions at the experience of the american people to me is sickening. tell me, rick warren and joel osteen, how much money have been made peddling those books on jesus and what he would have done. not all christians are silent. earlier this weeks a coalition launched a national advertising campaign backling health care reform in this country, calling it a fundamental religious issue. i think so. i want to know what you think. is health care a moral obligation in this country? text us tonight, will you? text "a" for yes and "b" for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the program. joining me now on the program to discuss this is bishop harry jackson, a senior pastor of hope christian church, and also author of "personal faith in public policy." also with us tonight the

reverend derek hawkins, senior pastor of the 19th street baptist church in washington, d.c. gentlemen, thank you for your time tonight. i believe this is a very controversial issue when it comes to the faith, because a lot of people just don't know where the christian leadership should go on this. bishop jackson, is this such a moral issue that we should be hearing from christian leaders and supporting the president in this country on this issue? >> well, ed, you should be, but i think they have been speaking out in some measure. first of all, i'm not for the president's approach. three years ago i was diagnosed with cancer of the esophagus, i nearly died. if my care had been delayed or denied even six months, i wouldn't be here talking tonight. so i want you to understand that what people are dealing with is not just the idea that everyone needs to be covered, but the idea you how you're going to do it. if you diminish the quality of care in america, that's an issue. so what we have now is open checkbook and an open set every

prescriptions that have no directions. so i'm against it based on insufficient information. they've got to come with the information that makes a difference, and i, like many others, believe that someone's life is not worth more because they're worth less. what i mean by that, the poor should have an opportunity to get health care, no question about it, but if you're going to slow down everybody else's health care, then i might be rich, but i've only got three months to live and then i wind up dying, because you have not specified the nature of your morality. >> bishop, i appreciate your answer. i do disagree with some of it. >> that's all right. >> reverend hawkins, what would jesus do if he were walking the face of the earth? what if we had the second coming of christ in the middle of this debate? what about the folks going bankrupt because they have a medical issue in the family? the hardship that families are facing? what would the lord do?

>> fortunately -- and it's good to be with you and with my good friend bishop jackson -- jesus has already spoken about health care. he makes it very clear in matthew that we should have compassion, care and concern for the sick among us. and i think there are two important things that need to be understood here. before we get to clarity, there must be civility. i think that one of the things that's incumbent upon christian leaders to do is implore those, not just christians at the town hall meetings, but any and everyone that we won't get to the clarity if there's a profound lack of civility as we've been seeing over and over again. i hope and pray that in the coming days we'll have that clarity. you know, one of the things that's important also to remember is that we don't have a complete work of legislation here, but one thing we do know is that there's some key elements in all of the appropriate portions that hopefully will come together quite soon.

one is portability. if i lose or change my job, i'll be able to carry my health insurance. i won't have a discriminating precondition clause where if i've got a precondition i'll be denied. >> but reverend, that's my question. we're getting into the policy weeds here. from a moral obligation, as a christian, yew day ochristian nation, founded on judeo-christian principles, why are the big four silent. ? why can't they support the. of the united states to cover all americans? >> even if they don't come out with the immediate support of the president, i hope they do come out with an understanding that it's a moral imperative to people of faith to indeed have this as a front and center concern. i would hope, aside from the politics that they understand the health care system in america is broken. and needs to be repaired. >> bishop, does it bother you that it comes do you to the god

almighty dollar in our society? >> it does bother me, but that's a reality. my concern is dobson has come out and said a few days ago there's a group that were on a webinar, gathered to discuss this. i believe, though, we're dealing with the president saying his way is the only way. i'm saying we need to slow our roll, make sure that we do the right thing, so that people like me don't wind up dead. i think the issue is in the details. you can't have a -- >> i know we're having this discussion in this country and going through the details right now, but from the moral obligation of christianity, it would seem to me that we would be hearing more from christian leaders. i hope they do get engaged. gentlemen, i'm tight on time. we have some other things happening. i knew that ref rend and bishops coming on this program wouldn't be short of wisdom and words. >> ed, listen, join us on wednesday with the president, on

wednesday evening at 5:00. >> the president is engaging the progressive religious community to have a discussion next week on this. >> i'd like to be in on that discussion. >> please, bishop, and you can. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. we will have more on this story in coming shows as this debate continues in this country. all right. we have some breaking news now. nbc news has obtained exclusive video of the tragic plane crash over the hudson river that killed nine people last saturday. now, we want to warn you, you may find these images and this videotape very disturbing. here is the crash as it happened. watching the left side of your screen. >> oh, my god. >> joining me for more is tom costello who's been working with officials and investigators on

this all day. tom, how revealing is this videotape tonight? >> this is the first piece of vip i don't tape, ed, in which we get some sense of treat ject torrie of the flight path for both that sightseeing tourist with six people on board and the three people on board the piper small plane. what appears to happen is the small plane appears to be climbing and banking and literally it would appear could not see the helicopter climbing, and as we show this video down frame by frame, we see the hell coppers 'rotor slices right through the right wing of that piper plane. the plane starts a nose dive, as does the helicopter. this was shot by an italian tourist on one of those boats on the head son refer. if the video seem shaky or jerky, he was testing out a new

video camera, testing the zoom. he's kind of playing with it when suddenly the helicopters comes into focus. before you know it, he appears to have documented, rather, this crash in midair. the ntsb will now be going through this video frame by frame, and enhancing it to in fact get a good feeling for whether it gives them for a feel of what is the position of both aircraft. where did they strike? did in fact that helicopter appear within the blind spot of the plane? but it does appear to reconfirm the theory that the plane came up from behind the helicopter, and maybe didn't see it, and was taken out by the rotor. this is what the ntsb was asking for, and now they have it. >> thank you, tom, thanks for joining us tonight. coming up, president obama

has to put the hammer down on senator chuck grassley. stop pretending that you're working with us to get health care reform done. linda douglas joins me live with reaction from the comments that the senator has made of late. stay with us on "the ed show." what's our favorite part of honey bunches of oats? the sparkly flakes. the honey-baked bunches! the magic's in the mix. my favorite part? eating it. honey bunches of oats. taste the joy we put invery spoonful.

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welcome back to "the ed show." president obama you have to

admit has stayed pretty cool during the debate. white house adviser david axelrod dismissed the angry youth bursts say, quote, there is a media fetish about these things. david, i agree with you, especially when we heard republicans lying on the campaign trail. there's a new "you see today"/gallup poll says that 34% have made them more sympathetic to the protesters' views? let me bring in white house communications directors for the office of health care reform, linda douglas. great to have you on tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> the guy making news right now is chuck grassley. it doesn't sound like he's got the mood for any bipartisan agreement. >> there's some fear that because of the house bill from

that step, you have every right to fear. you shouldn't have counselling at the end of life, you ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. we should not have a govern program that determines if you're going to pull the plus on grandma. >>. i would like to know the white house response to this and the president himself. >> it's hard to exactly say what the question was and what he was talking about exactly. he's been an advocate for taking care of providing options, he's certainly fought for people in nursing homes, and obviously knows that the claims that there's some kind of death panel, or euthanasia, that certainly is a complete misrepresentation of what's

misrepresented. for considering to voluntary get counseling. he endorsed the red rick, and are you saying the white house thinks he's a good guy? >> well, you know, senator grassley has been working hard with senator bachus and the other senators on the senate finance committee to try to craft a compromise piece of legislation that would have bipartisan support that would lower cost, protect your choices, would expand making it much more affordable and get rid of the material so senator grassley has been working on all of that for many, many weeks very hard. obviously he has a point of view

about this. >> i tell you, i have to give the white house credit. you wonderful folks over there, you have more olive branching than probably anybody on the face of the earth. the final question i have tonight, linda, is this, does the president want dissenting voices at these town hall meetings? when he goats to montana or colorado, or are they going to be orchestrated? we haven't seen anybody get up and challenge the president. >> it's interesting they haven't. i think probably what that shows you is that most people want to engage in a polite, civil discussion. the president got some challenging question when is he was in new hampshire. he asked for people who were skeptics, the public can buy tickets or get -- not buy, but can have access to the tickets to these events, but they're absolutely open to the public. he expects that and wants to answer those questions.

so that he could ants the questions himself. >> i thought he did a heck of -- linda douglass thank you for joining us tonight. thank you. >> thanks, ed. coming up on "the ed show," dr. doom and elected official believes the president wants to use a pandemic disease or natural disease as an excuse to declare martial law? stay with us. imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there.

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time for psychotalk tonight. from one of the best in the business, in fact, georgia congressman paul brown, remember this guy? he told us a public option was going to kill us. and he's told ought he town hall folks that the president, the house speaker nancy pelosi and senate majority leader harry reid are planning to use a crisis as an excuse to declare martial law. it's all part of socialism. >> they have one agenda, that's socialism. i call it a steamrolling socialism being driven by nancy pelosi, harry reid and fueled by

barack obama. actually there's a history of that. why would a government ever use a crisis to consolidate power and put military on america's streets? oh, yeah, you're right, there is a history, just not in democratic administrations. scaring your town hall seniors with threats of socialism and martial law? that's fear mongering "psychotalk," congressman. and the congressman who proposed the end of life passage of the bill joins me to set the record straight right here on "the ed show," next. plus or panel will respond to my commentary on the christian faith and moral obligation to deliver health care in this country. that's next up here on "the ed show." bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet.

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the think about obama care, he is going to let old folks die, you take a blue pill for pain and die. that's it. >> the president's going to let old folks die. welcome back to "the ed show." sarah palin wants you to think that, newt gingrich even backed her up on the statement. chuck grassley is stoking the already raging firestorm of protesters shouting that the president of the united states is going to knock off old folks. they are wildly distorting a provision in the house reform bill that has a provision in there that would give you coverage for voluntary consultations with a doctor in a health care professional about your wishes, your family wishes. for more, let me bring in the author of that section of the bill, h.r.-3200, section 1233,

congressman earl blumen nair. let me ask you straight up, are the republicans lying about this alleged death panel? you put it in there, you are the one. are they lying? >> they are lying. >> thank you. that's what i wanted to hear. that's exactly what they're doing. congressman, what is this provision that is causing this firestorm and striking fear in the hearts of minds of seniors across americans. >> it is a bipartisan effort to make sure that senior citizens and their family have an opportunity to get consultation with the medical professional of their choice, to know what they're getting into, to know what their options are, how to make sure the family wishes are respected. this was -- came from bipartisan legislation that i introduced, that no rep spoke against, and

in fact has republican co-sponsors, and has had republicans tell me and speak publicly about the need to make sure that seniors' wishes are respected and they get the tools and information they need. >> why -- the polls are showing this fear tactic is working. the president and his efforts to reform health care starting to slip with seniors. so how do you turn this around? >> well, it's exactly what you're doing here, ed, is putting the spotlight on a blatant, obvious lie. >> but you have senator grassley out there basically endorsing this rhetoric. in fact, he mentioned your house bill on the stump, telling people that they should fear you, congressman. >> what's happening is every independent observer who's fact-checked this, gives a pin

nokia, pants on fire liar rating. every major newspaper that's editorialized, people are seeing that this is a categorical untruth that they are trying to spread falsehoods, and i think, ed, what's happening is that you're getting unprecedented attention on something that is this blatant is not only exposing the lie about this provision, but it's showing the lengths to which they will go to prevent health care reform. >> congressman, that is it. i just find it, as a news consumer hard to believe that someone of someone of chuck grassley's stature, the ranking republican on the financial committee, after all these years, would just be making a mistake on a house bill that he probably hasn't even ready, and stoking the fire on this, of course, is sarah palin, her

latest posting on her facebook -- it's all just more evidence that the democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing and more evidence that the top-down plans will never result in real health care form. i would like to point out there's rationing going on by the insurance industry right now. dispel that myth about rationing. congressman. >> the point is we are making choices now, millions of americans have health care rationed, because they can't get access to it or it's only through an emergency room. the point is there's nothing in this legislation that speaks to rati rationing. it gives access to people. it removes the fear of bankruptcy stopping a number of people from taking advantage of health care opportunities, and part of what they're try to go

do to change the subject, making up things, keep layering argument after argument that's bog news, and hopefuy