family paying for uncompensated care. people without health insurance going in, getting fixed up. that money comes from somewhere. well, it comes from you, you just don't see it on your bill. and so if we can help provide coverage to people so that they're getting regular primary care and they're not going to the emergency room, we will obtain some savings, and that's partly, going to randy's earlier question, that's partly how we'll end up paying for giving people health insurance because we're already paying for it right now. we just don't notice it. we are paying for it in uncompensated care that is subsidized by the rest of us who have health insurance. all right. i think this is the signal that i only have a few more questions. i'm going to take two more questions. if i'm in my -- i hamontana, i to call on somebody with a cowboy hat, absolutely.

you've got a little plaque on there. >> montana ambassadors. we're business advisory group appointed by the governor. we've served three republican and two democratic governors and i'd like to welcome you on behalf of the montana ambassadors. >> thank you so much. you make a great ambassador. >> thank you. my question, and i'm glad you called on me, it has to do with the cobra question because i'm in the building materials business. i own a lumberyard in a beautiful little town of 1,000 people about 40 miles southwest of here, innes, and i was -- when the economy took a nose dive, i was forced to take my workforce from 11 people to 6, and i'm one of, like most employers in america, i want to provide. i think it's my responsibility to provide health insurance. you like to take care of our peeps, so to speak. >> [ inaudible ].

>> so i went searching for replacement coverage for employees that went off only to find out that cobra doesn't apply to me because i have less than 20 employees and that conservatively affects 80% of all workers in montana. so they were pretty much out on their own, and i was wondering what we can do to eliminate discrimination against small employers. as an example. we're a lumberyard, out there lifting boards and packing stuff all day long. every one of my remaining seven employees are fit. so why are we and i as an employer able to provide a lesser level of benefits to my employees and yet an employer with 30 employees who sit in cubicles on their butts instead of working them off gets a better rate? >> well, that's a pretty good question.

so for all of you who are all sitting on your what you call them? no. as i said, small business is probably as vulnerable as anybody, and one of the things that max has been working very hard on, and this just doesn't get advertised, so i just want to make sure everybody is paying attention here, one of the things that we're trying to do is give a substantial subsidy to help small businesses, allow their employees to get health insurance because there are a lot of employers just like you who want to do the right thing, but they're a small shop, they're operating on small margins, they've got no leverage with the insurance companies. there are two ways we want to help. number one, we want the small business to be able to buy into the exchange. that allows you then to use the purchasing power of everybody who is in the exchange to get the best rates from the insurance companies. that right away would drive down

the premiums that you'd have to pay. and the second thing we want to do is for employers who are doing the right thing and providing health insurance that is real, then we want to give you a tax break so that it's easier for you to make your bottom line. now, this is something that a lot of small businesses would benefit from. nobody is talking about it. and since small businesses are the place where you're seeing the fastest job growth, it makes sense for us to provide this kind of protection. this, i guarantee you, will end up being an important component of whatever we pass out of washington. all right? i have only got time for one more question, and it's a guy's turn, and i want somebody who's got a concern or is skeptical about health care reform. here we go. there we go. i knew we could find a couple

here. so i'll call on this gentleman right here in the pale blue shirt. and hopefully that list is not too long. all right. go ahead. introduce yourself though. >> my name is mark montgomery from helena, montana. >> great to see you. >> i appreciate you coming here. it's great to be able to do this. >> thank you. >> mr. president, i make a living selling individual health insuran insurance. okay? obviously, i have paid very close attention to this insurance debate. as you know, the health insurance companies are in favor of health care reform and have a number of very good proposals before congress to work with government to provide insurance for the uninsured and cover individuals with pre-existing conditions. why is it that you've changed your strategy from talking about health care reform to health

insurance reform and decided to vilify the insurance companies? >> that's a fair question. that's a fair question. first of all, you are absolutely right that the insurance companies in some cases have been constructive. so i'll give you a particular example. aetna has been trying to work with us in dealing with some of this pre-existing condition stuff, and that's absolutely true, and there are other companies who have done the same. now, i want to just be honest with you, and i think max will testify, that in some cases what we've seen is also funding in opposition by some other insurance companies to any kind of reform proposals. so my intent is not to vilify insurance companies. if i was vilifying them, what we would be doing would be to say that private insurance has no place in the health care market and some people believe that. i don't believe that. what i have said is let's work with the existing system. we've got private insurers out

there. but what we do have to make sure of is that certain practices that are very tough on people, that those practices change. now, one point i want to make about insurance, some of the reforms that we want for the insurance market are very hard to achieve unless we've got everybody covered. this is the reason the insurance companies are willing to support reform, because their attitude is if we can't exclude people for pre-existing conditions, for example, if we can't cherry pick the healthy folks from the not so healthy folks, well, that means that we're taking on more people with more expensive care, what's in it for us? the answer is if they've got more customers, then they're willing to make sure that they are eliminating some of these practices.

if they've got fewer customers, they're less willing to do it. so it's important for people when people ask me sometimes why don't you just do the insurance reform stuff and not expand coverage for more people? my answer is, i can't do the insurance reform stuff by itself. the only way that we can change some of the insurance practices that are hurting people now is to make sure that everybody's covered and everybody has got a stake in it, and then the insurance companies are able and willing to make some of these changes that will help people who have insurance right now. but thank you for the question. i appreciate it. all right. you know, i'm going -- even though i shouldn't do this, i'm going to take one more question. my team always -- and i'm going to call on this person right here to get the last word, right here. >> thank you. >> go ahead.

>> thank you, mr. president, and thank you for coming to bozeman and bringing your beautiful family to the last best place in the world. because you're a constitutional scholar, i think it would be terrible to let you escape from montana without sharing with you the most perfect preamble to a constitution of any state constitution. >> oh, okay. i want to hear this. this is a good way to end our town hall. >> it is. we the people of montana grateful to god for the quiet beauty of our state, the grandeur of our mountains, the vastness of our rolling plains, and desiring to improve the quality of life, the quality of opportunity, and to secure the blessings of liberty for this and future generations do ordain and establish this constitution. i hope you take a look at the whole constitution. you'll like it. >> that's very nice. well, thank you.

listen, montana, you have been terrific. i hope this has been informative. thank you for the questions. let's get to work. thank you. >> the president concluding yet another town hall, this one obviously in montana. president taking a few questions, one even from a member of the nra said he was a proud member of the nra, and another person working as a health insurance provider. very interesting mix of people. david shuster, my colleague for "the big picture" conversation on what we just saw. 1,300 people in that airport hang hangar. the president challenged by two individuals in the audience there, but the tone very similar to what we saw in new hampshire. >> yeah, tamron. that's right. you're going to think i'm the biggest nerd but i tried to log this so we could describe it by the numbers. the q&a session according to my count, 38 minutes. he got eight questions as he pointed out, two of the eight

were challenging questions, including the one you mentioned where the guy asked about how to pay for t the questions ranged on everything from how are you going to pay for it, what's going to happen if i'm a small business owner, what about england and canada. never mind the content was also the politics. the president mentioned max baucus eight different times in this town hall. he wanted to talk about max this and max that so that was striking. that was striking because of the role max baucus plays. the other thing is the president seemed to go out of his way to try to debunk some of the myths that the white house says is out there, and so, for example, here is one of them. watch. >> when you start hearing people saying we're trying to get socialized medicine and we're trying to have government bureaucrats meddle in your decisionmaking between you and your doctor, that's just not

true. >> now, that was in response to a question about medicare, and he wasn't even asked, tamron, the myth there. >> but, david, we know the objectives for the white house, and they've said it, what they've been fighting for the last couple days are the myths, the misinformation out there. the president has been criticized for not being specific, for not drawing that line in the sand. so quite naturally going in today he probably anticipated not getting any hardline questions. he's not going to get someone to stand up and say what about those death panels as we have seen in other town halls, so he has to take the bull, if you will, by the horns, no midwest reference there, no wild west reference, but being in montana you have to take the bull by the horns. i think that's what we saw there, because he anticipated not getting someone to yell out or shout down the president of the united states. >> exactly. there was another great example, this was in response to the second question which again nobody was sort of floating this myth. what the president did was he

wanted to talk to senior citizens perhaps out there watching in tv who are worried about losing their medicare coverage and do not like big government. that wasn't really the point of the question, but here is how the president faced his critics using that one. watch. >> so when you hear people saying, i hate government programs but keep your hands off my medicare, then there's a little bit of a contradiction there. >> yeah. >> so, again, so interesting, tamron, there's the president trying to essentially take the sort of false issue that's out there and say i'm hearing people say medicare -- take your hands off the medicare when medicare is a government program. he's trying to preemptively deal with that. in a few minutes we'll play this incredible exchange i thought in which there was a guy who is a member of the nra, says i'm a proud member of the nra and you can't tell us how you're going to pay, you're going to have to raise taxes and the president gives this intriguing response giving reference to the fact that this guy says he watches a lot of cable news and doesn't like the spin. it was a fascinating

conversation. >> you heard the president warn against watching the cable fire, the chitchat that's going on. let me tell you, that reference about medicare and saying people said keep your hands off my medicare, that happened in a town hall meeting, and that happened to be played out on television. so the president can say the cable chitchat, somebody in that white house is watching what's happening and what's being replayed over and over on cable tv, talk radio, or network television, and that's why the president -- that wasn't even the question, but he found a way to put that in the conversation. >> we do know thanks to chuck todd, and we're going to talk to chuck in a moment, i have a feeling that the white house was delighted with this next weiss of tape we're going to play. here is the exchange where a guy got up, and remember tickets were distributed in a sort of wide variety of ways. they were expecting perhaps there would be some skeptical questions and they got one they wanted. here is a man who got up and proclaimed he watches cable tv. he's a member of the nra. he costs about the cost of the

transition and who is going to bear the cost and watch the president's response. here is the question and the response. watch. >> you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. you're saving here. you're saving over there. you're going to take a little money here, take a little money there, but you have no money. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. >> i would rather be giving that money to the young lady here who doesn't have health insurance than giving it to insurance companies who are making record profits. now, you may disagree. >> let's bring in chief white house correspondent chuck todd to talk about what we just saw in belgrade, montana. check, how do you score it? what's your interpretation of what happened in this town hall? >> reporter: well, i think there were a few things i think are worth pointing out. number one, in his opening remarks, if you noticed toward the tail end, it got a little fiery, more like a campaign atmosphere and frankly, look, yes, there were a couple of tough questions that he dealt with from the town hall, but this was -- felt like as much

about a campaign rally than anything else. here he is out there, go knock on doors, change isn't easy there. was a little bit of more of the campaign obama showing up particularly here at the end. in the exchange with the nra member, and i have to say it was almost right out of central casting. we want to find a critic. let's dress him up in an nra shirt. you're like, okay, like making a bull's-eye and i think the president clearly was having an easier time making sure he didn't just pick people that were wearing obama t-shirts and all that. the one thing about his answer to the nra guy was he didn't go about -- he didn't go at the deficit question in general because one of the things that is coming up with these protesters and the people that are fighting this, it's -- some of it is about health care, but some of it is about government -- more about government in general and the cost of government, and so while i think the white house feels very good about how the

president was able to get that question, talk about once again restate his pledge about his no raising taxes on anybody under $250,000, accident go after the bigger deal issue that's going to confront that president over the next six to eight months, and that is the deficit in general, and that is the issue that's moving independents. at some point i think on health care, look, the health care debate, i think they're going to move and try to get something done without trying to appease independents, but at some point, whether it's through social security or some other means, they're going to have to tackle this issue of the deficit head-on. >> on that point, to be fair to people who are, of course, concerned about the cost, while the president says two-thirds of the cost of an $800 billion program we've already got, well, i suppose -- and then the rest will come from taxing the wealthy or taxing the richest 1%, whichever it is, to be fair they don't know what those ratios are because they don't have overall costs yet, right?

>> absolutely. and i want to point out another thing here, and i think it got at the gentleman's question is, you know, trust in government. whether it's being run by republicans or run by democrats, it's not very high right now particularly on fiscal issues. so it doesn't surprise me that you have a gentleman like that one and frankly others. we've seen it in our own polling. who sit there and say you claim you're going to save money over here, but we've heard that from government before and it never actually happened. so that is something that i think this administration is up against. they didn't create this distrust. you know, they sort of walked into it, and the more stories that come out for them, for instance, paying back the t.a.r.p. money and people actually see that money coming back to government, you know, more of that -- people, i think, are trying to get the old reagan phrase, trust but verify again in how government handles its

fiscal house. that's another, i think, challenge the president is dealing with in selling how he's paying for health care. >> nbc's chief white house correspondent chuck todd. thank you, chuck. >> you got it. now to the bigger picture. has the white house found a more effective way to get their health care message out to the public. president obama has been pushing that health care plan for weeks now. he's, of course, traveled across the country holding town halls like the one you just saw. even had a prime time news conference, but the president is still playing defense right now. we saw it. john hardwood is cnbc's chief white house correspondent and political writer for "the new york times" and carrie brown is a reporter for the politico. what are your impressions of this recent town hall we saw half of it. the president making remarks, the other half as david noting taking eight questions. >> sure. i think at the beginning what interested or what got my attention was in his opening remarks he made a point of talking about the recovery act, and prefacing by saying it has clouded the debate over health care which i think goes to what

chuck todd was just saying in that there's mistrust of government right now, and he wanted to lay out the recovery plan and say a couple of things about it ahead of talking about the health care plan. i found that to be interesting. the other thing is that he was clearly looking for skeptics, and he only got two skeptical questions. in some ways reminded me of when i was covering him during the campaign when he would in iowa hold town halls with only undecided voters, and in some ways it may be something that they could entertain in doing a town hall entirely with skeptics. it seems like something he'd girding for and would really like to do. >> john harwood, i want to get your reaction, of course, to the town hall as well, but also we saw the picture of obama embracing max baucus. he mentioned max baucus eight times. perhaps max baucus and president obama are the only ones in washington who really know where the negotiations stand. what do you make by the effort by the president to reach out to max baucus so publicly and your impressions of the events? >> whether or not max baucus succeeds in getting a bipartisan

bill with chuck grassley, he will need max baucus to get something through the finance committee. they have the votes to do it. they have the majority on the finance committee and every other committee in the u.s. senate. i think he's turning to the guys who may have to shift gears in a few weeks and turn away from the republicans and grassley and work with fellow democrats to get a bill. >> in other words make it more of a democratic bill and less of a bipartisan bill if they decide to go that route. >> exactly so. the other thing that struck me about this event, david, and it's related to the first, is the confidence obama showed. he kept saying when we pass health care reform. he was not going there in terms of, oh, is this effort found founderi foundering. >> tamron, you know, i think john makes such a great point, and that is the president exudes a sort of confidence, almost it's like when he's challenged -- almost like they were looking for the challenging questions -- >> you could see it in his body

language. >> i respect your question, about you here is why we're doing this. it's almost as if when white house officials say that's the president at his best, you could understand then why they're hoping for more of the skeptical questions. >> if people have tivo, you can look at the tape again when that nra member stood up, there was a little glimmer in the president saying to himself, if you could read minds, interpretation was, okay, now it's on. we'll see what happens and we'll see in colorado tomorrow. but in the meantime in "the big picture" much more on the president's town hall. >> and, of course, we will have a live report from los angeles first from the sports arena where thousands of people have been lining up for access to free health care. some people have been waiting in line for days. the dramatic story about the human side of this political debate. many thanks to chuck todd and john harwood and carrie brown. "the big picture" continues right after this. the flowers a. the air is sweet.

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fight against the fear. this is not about politics. this is about helping the american people, and if we can get it done this year, the american people are going to be better off. >> while the health care debate rages on in washington, on the other side of the country, there's a clear sign of how dire this battle and this situation is. >> tamron, that's right. for the past few days thousands of people have been lining up outside an aging los angeles sports arena hoping for a free shot at free health care. the nonprofit group remote area medical is providing free health, dental, and eye services for eight days. it marks the first time in 25 years the group of doctors has

gone to a major u.s. metropolitan area to offer care. the process is in the fourth day. the event is already at maximum capacity. one patient expressed her frustration about not being able to afford regular health care. >> it makes me angry because i work and work and work, and i still can't get the care i need, and i'm going to die. my blood pressure is so high and i can't afford the meds that i need to get it lower. and i'm going to die. >> nbc's stephanie stand is live at the los angeles forum in inglewood, california. describe the seen there. it's taken a lot of people across the nation by surprise. >> reporter: absolutely, david. you know, a lot of people tell you this event highlights the health care problem in this country. as you said, organizers say they have reached max capacity. they've handed out 8,000 wrist bands and they're not taking on any more patients. but weigh want to talk to one patient who came here to get

treatment for her son. tamika alexander actually traveled quite a distance to be here, about an hour. tamika, tell us why you decided to come to this clinic? >> we applied for medicare and we didn't qualify. we're now on the waiting list and you know they said we couldn't qualify because of the income. i was working but now my hours have been cut down so we're trying to apply again but we're just waiting. we don't have any medicare insurance at all. we have been here three days trying to get coverage. my baby really needs dental work done. it's so expensive. we can't afford it. we need to be here no matter what it takes. >> reporter: well, thank you, tamika appreciate your times and thanks to little elijah. hi. tamika is just one example of the people here. a lot of people might be thinking, oh, this is for people who are homeless. that is simply not the case, david and tamron. a lot of people here are uninsured, under insured. this clinic is going to go through tuesday. again, they're not accepting any more patients. >> nbc's stephanie stand in

inglewood, california. a remarkable clinic and story out there. stephanie, thanks for reporting it for us. we appreciate it. still ahead, michael vick returns to professional football. does the dogfighting felon deserve a second chance in the nfl? >> it's still ahead on "the big picture." so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills. just 2 aleve can last all day. perfect. choose aleve and you can be taking four times... fewer pills than extra strength tylenol. just 2 aleve have the strength to relieve arthritis pain all day. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small,

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welcome back. still ahead this hour, really cute kid gets a big interview. >> this is where i'm going to interview president obama. right now i'm waiting for him to arrive so i can interview him. >> persistence paid off for 11-year-old damon weaver finally landing that big interview with the commander in chief. we've got some of the highlights. also, what it means to palinize someone. we'll explain the newest word in the political lexicon. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. mostor headaches.

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you can't tell us how you're going to pay for this. you're saving here, you're saving over there, you're going to take a little money here, take a little money there, but you have no money. the only way you're going to get that money is to raise our taxes. you said you wouldn't. >> i would rather be giving that money to the young lady here who doesn't have health insurance and giving her some help than giving it to insurance companies that are making record profits. now, you mace disagree. >> welcome back to "the big picture." i'm tamron hall. >> and i'm david shuster. we agree that was perhaps the most intriguing exchanges for the town hall. we're pleased to be joined by the man who asked that question. randy, i understand you traveled more than 400 miles to get to the town hall. were you satisfied with the president's answer? first of all, you asked about the cost. the president said two-thirds of the transition will be paid for, another third in taxes on the wealthiest americans. your reaction to the president's

answer? >> i'm somewhat happy with his answer. i think he was as honest as he possibly could be. the problem being i don't think he knows where that money is going to come from. if he does, he's not saying. >> what makes you think he doesn't know? is it because you're afraid, i don't know, unions will say, no he he can't raise money a certain way or wealthy people will say you can't raise money based on higher taxes of us? what is your concern? >> the special interests. they're going to say yes or no on their little bit of deal. i'm going it say yes or no on mine. there's so much money here and so many things going on, i don't think anybody can understand everything that is happening. >> and, randy, i understand you are a welder. i heard you mention a lot of cable news talk out there and like many people, i'm sure that's how you get most of the information and the paper as well. do you think that a lot of the anger that we're seeing in those town hall meetings across the country, do you think that that represents what most people that you talk to on a day-to-day

basis feel? >> no. i was here for -- to get the ticket the night before last. i have been here about 12 hours here today. i see no anger. the only anger i saw was the people who were putting this deal on when we were standing in the street in the rain, the way they were taking care of us. we were angry about that. but there is no anger. it's give and take. this is the american way. >> it's great talking to you. back to your tickets, you drove 400 miles to get those tickets? >> not quite 400 miles, but it's a long drive over here. it's almost all the way across montana, which is a huge state. >> so when you were afforded that opportunity to ask your question, i'm sure it made it worth your while? >> yes. i wanted to get involved in the process. you vote, you be vocal, you talk, you learn, try to be as well educated as you can and this is a great opportunity for me and a whole bunch of other

people to come and talk to the president. >> randy, one more final question, actually two questions. first of all, yu view of the president now and, secondly, you're a welder. if you make less than $250,000 a year and it turns out you don't get taxed to pay for this, is it a plan you would support or would you oppose it just on ideological grounds that you don't want the government more involved? >> now is the time maybe i should spin this a little bit, but i don't want the government involved in a lot of this stuff. i think our government has way more going on than they can take care of and/or pay for, and they're trying to put in a program that they don't even understand. >> randy, we appreciate your candidness and honesty here. we also appreciate the manner in which you're talking to us. i'm not sure whether the cable channel that you're referring to was ours, about you we appreciate you giving us a chance today and good to chat with you. >> thank you very much.

>> very welcome. >> he watches a lot of cable because he said he has to put a spin on it, david. just ahead, putting spin on a lot in our face-off. president obama's town hall meeting. >> tamron, it's amazing how savvy people get even when they're on tv for two minutes. tamron, did he take back control of the health care debate? how did this go? how many people were watching? what is the next step, and how women republican activists, especially those in washington, respond? we'll get to all that. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. >> here in montana you have bears, moose, and elk. in washington you just have mostly bull. what do you say to n around the color wheel? - to paint with primer already mixed in? - ♪ yeah yeah yeah... - test samples instead of can commitments? - ♪ whoo! - what do you say we dip into our wallets less... - ♪ are you feeling it? - ...and grab ahold of the latest tools out there... - ♪ oh! ...so we can quit all that messing around with extra steps - and get busy turning our doing dials up a notch? - ♪ whoo!

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for all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary, what's truly risky, is if we do nothing. >> president obama just a short time ago. in today's "face-off" who is winning the health care message war. president obama wrapped up the second of three town halls he's having this week. >> david, unlike the angry ones we've seen all week long around the country, this one pretty tame. is this a sign that the president is getting his message through? here to face-off democratic strategist olissa and danny dee as. danny, we saw today a gentleman, nra, i don't think you could get

more classic americana. he said he was somewhat satisfied with the president's answer. you do see challenges but in a respectful way. who is winning this battle? >> well, i think it's hard to argue that the president, the administration, and democrats putting forward this argument are winning the battle or getting a leg up in the discussion because the more the president talks about it, the worse numbers get for health care reform. i think you need to look at the bigger picture. i think people aren't comfortable with the role of government, with the policy this administration is pursuing with regard to spending, and so many other things, and i think it's being expressed across the country. >> alisa, let me bring you in on this. do you believe here you have a man who asked the president a question. he came in skeptical and when we just interviewed him, he certainly wasn't spewing anger and hate. >> no, and i think the president did a great job of answering his question. democrats are winning this messaging war because democrats have a better message. we believe anyone who works for

a living ought to be able to take their kid to a doctor, and anyone who is retired or ill or between jobs, we should be able to have health insurance. this is a pretty simple message that i actually think most people can agree on. i don't think there's anybody better to deliver that message than barack obama. >> i think we would all agree it's important to have an honest di bait debate here. the president in answering the last question said he is not vilifying health insurance companies, but in his opening remarks he said we're being held hostage at any given moment by health insurance companies who deny coverage or drop coverage. >> i think he acknowledged it was a very good question. he acknowledged there are health insurance companies like aetna that have been cooperating with the administration, but i think anybody who has health insurance, most of us can say that there's a lot of bureaucracy involved and it could certainly be better. i think it's possible to criticize them, say that we want to work together and that we invite all of them to come to the table and have this

important discussion. >> danny, there are a number of falsehoods out there. the president tried to address one of them about socialized medicine. watch. >> when you start hearing people saying we're trying to get socialized medicine and we're trying to have government bureaucrats meddle in your decisionmaking between you and your doctor, that's just not true. >> danny, the president is right on that one, isn't he? >> well, i think it's hard to argue that the role of government won't expand and expand significantly if what the president wants to put forward and what this congress wants to put forward is enacted. >> that's true but on the point of government bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor, that's not part of the plans, is it? >> well, i think, you know, certainly at the end of the day the government will have a much more significant role in health care and making decisions in health care, and i think -- >> danny, hang on, did you see the story out of california and the forum, 8,000 people showed up. a lot of those people have

insurance or are under insured. who is standing in the way of their care? right now? did you see the forum? >> i didn't see the forum, but at the end of the day i think the inability of congress to work in this administration to work in a bipartisan fashion to put something through is ultimately keeping some of these people from getting health care -- >> right now who -- back to the real faces because i think we can talk in abstract and numbers that we don't know. we saw real faces at the forum, different races, different ages and genders. people with children, people on their own, and many of them have insurance. who is standing in the way? why would you stand in the sun in california getting free health care when you have insurance? who is standing in the way? >> i don't quite understand the question. i think at the end of the day this administration has proven incapable -- >> you know who is standing in the way. the health insurance providers are standing in the way. they're the bureaucrats we need to be worried about. >> they're the ones talking about jamming this through and

rushing it through and don't take my word for it. look on your tv screen. look at the thousands of americans coming out -- >> look at the thousands who were in california. that's tamron's point. >> i think your argument in ther rye is interesting. in practice, i'm sorry, it just doesn't work. >> in practice it's 1,000 people, 1,500 people standing in line. >> those people are not a theory. those are human beings. those are americans. >> i feel a lot more americans coming out and saying they disagree with the administration's approach here. >> and they have every right to do that. >> they're concerned about government intervention. >> they have every right but you're not speaking to the point about the people who need care. >> i'm speaking to the point that the vast majority of people i see on trve and throughout the country are speaking to. they don't trust this administration, and this government to take a larger role in the discussion with regard to health care. that is not an observation. i think that's a fact. >> that's a very valid point and fair point, but there's a fundamental question a lot of people have. that is if you look at the

amount of money we all spend on health care. 40 cents on every dollar goes for things that are essentially not medical care. it's other profits for the health insurance companies, their promotions, advertisement. that's a problem, wouldn't you acknowledge? >> i certainly think tit's a problem. i think the government racking up more debt and the president not being able to answer the question how he's going to pay for health care -- >> maybe you were watching a different town hall because i thought he said he was going to raise taxes on the wealthiest 1%. >> ultimately this administration cannot explain -- >> danny, what's the -- >> just like they can't explain how they're going to pay for the deficit. >> danny, so we agree there's a problem. you don't like the president's plan. what's your plan? >> well, i think republicans have clearly been talking about portability, medical liability, reform -- >> a plan. >> paul ryan, a host, chuck grassley, a host of other republicans that are trying to engage in the discussion -- >> where is the plan? engaging in discussion is not

enough. we need a plan that works. >> speaking in a rational way. what this congress is doing is putting forward a $1 trillion plan they can't pay for. that's just reality and the american people -- >> how do you know they can't possibly pay for it? even republicans acknowledge two-thirds of the costs you can identify. the question is whether they can get that last third by taxing the wealthiest 1%. how do you know they can't pay for it? >> they can't possibly pay for all the programs they put forward -- >> because danny diaz said so they can't pay for it. >> we're done here, david. >> i guess the fiscal numbers and the deficit growth that i am seeing is something you may not be aware of, but it's something most common sense regular folks are aware of and they're demonstrating that anxiety at town halls across the country. i'm certainly more than happy to send you the facts if you're interested in seeing them. >> most people can find the facts on the white house's web page. >> that's an objective site. >> on that point i'll agree with

you. danny, you know we love you. i don't think you're the all true expert on how this is going to be paid for, but we love having you on the show because you are an expert on the republican point of view, as is alicia menendez on the democratic side. thank you for coming on. pretty good conversation there, tamron. i think we're reflecting the dinner tables across the country. >> i think it is. but i think paired with what we are seeing and i don't want to beat the drum about what we're seeing in california, but the fact that you have people in line who have insurance and they choose to stand there to try to get some kind of help is an indication the system is not working for everyone. >> that's right. the system is broken and it's got to be fixed in some fashion. up next, on this friday, david, some things we thought you should know. palinize becomes a verb. sharpton and gingrich form a new odd couple, and a young reporter gets the get of a lifetime. and then on "hardball," lawrence o'donnell is going to

talk to the spokesman for the bozeman, montana, tea party. that's going to be interesting. be sure to catch raichel mad dd this sunday on "meet the press." >> i also get my news from the cable networks because i don't like the spin that comes from the other places. >> you have to be careful about those cable networks though. bbb

there's a lot going on today and here are three things we thought you should know. >> david, congresswoman michele bachmann has come up with a new verb, palinize. yes. in the subject line of a

fund-raising letter, the minnesota republican writes, quote, don't let them palinize me. she goes on to say sarah palin has been demonized by the left. palinized means to exaggerate the truth or lie by mow significance. to attack a person for his or her conservative values. sarah palin is back on twitter under the new name sarah palin usa. she stopped using her previously account ak gov sarah palin on july 26th. she's not posted any updates under her new name. >> as far as palinized, i suppose there's a great temptation to come up with something for bachmannize but as far as her saying sarah palin had been demonized by the left, one could make the argument perhaps sarah palin has been demonized by some of the voices in her own head. al sharp ton and newt gingrich are teaming up to reform the nation's education

system. they appeared on the "today" show. while they are in agreement on the need to fix the nation's school, there's still the issue of health care. >> i think there will be real bipartisanship on education and there could be real bipartisanship on health care. >> you guys make a good team. it's nice to see you together. >> i have to work on newt on health care. >> as i said, there are a lot of things you don't agree on. >> i love that moment. >> particularly fun watching those two together. >> it's kind of cool. remember the 11-year-old student reporter, david, how could you forget this kid, from florida who called vice president joe biden his home boy and was hoping to get an interview with the president, well damon weaver finally got that long awaited one-on-one with president obama. he's been waiting since the inauguration. he sat down with the president and kicked things off by asking president obama what he will talk about during his education speech september 8th. >> i'm going to be making a big speech to young people all across the country about the

importance of education, the importance of staying in school, how we want to improve our education system and why it's so important for the country. >> i think it would be cool to have a president that can dunk. can you dunk? >> not anymore. i used to when i was young, but i'm almost 50 now, so, you know, your legs are the first thing to go. >> when i interviewed vice president joe biden he became my home boy. now that i interviewed you, would you like to become my home boy? >> absolutely. thank you, man. >> thank you. >> great job. >> thanks for making my dream come true. >> well, i appreciate it. you did an outstanding job. i look forward to seeing you in the future. >> okay. i want to cry. that's the sweetest thing. >> that's so cute. and, tamron, i watched the entire ten minute video clip of this kid and even his standups outside the white house were great and adorable. >> he is absolutely -- the little suit with the sleeves peeking out because probably he couldn't get his size. you know, just the whole thing. you know what? i think he should join "the bi