a musician's quest for the perfect drumstick led to an obsession that started a business. and the struggle for small business owners to provide health care and the hottest cell phones. that's all coming up next on "your business." it's not just any business, it's "your business" that's why american express open is proud to present "your business" on msnbc.

hi, everyone. i'm jj ramberg. today begins the fourth season of "your business." it has been our privilege to have spent the last three year providing you tips and advice to help your business grow. we hear it time and time again -- entrepreneurs starting businesses born out of necessity. today we meet a man who came up with the idea of making a better drumstick with no intentions of starting a business. 45 years later vic firth is on a roll. vic firth never had to drum up business. ♪ his customers have always come to him. >> you know, it's just very, very comfortable. very consistent. >> vic firth is a great stick company. >> considered the gucci or the lou louis viton of drumsticks. >> i tried the berest.

these are the best. >> when people think drumsticks, they think of vic firth. his customers love his product because he won't stand for anything less than 100%. >> it grew based on the fact that i demanded absolutely top quality of everything. >> reporter: firth's obsession was based on creating improving his own career with the boston symphony. >> i had no interest of getting into business but i took it to a different height. >> he took what was available for drumstick selection at the time, did a little whittling, brought those to a wood turner and said i need five, six pairs of this stick to be copied. he stand handed to me the first sticks.

>> reporter: his music students were the first to take notice. >> students would see them and say those sticked are well-balanced, play well, great sound. you can buy us some? that's how it all began. ♪ >> reporter: vic's sticks gained a reputation as being the best drumstick product out there. >> i was the first one to guarantee drumsticks to be straight. and then i got the idea of pitch pairing them, which guaranteed the moisture content, the flex, the balance, everything would be identical. >> they package them together in a little cardboard piece. when you take them out they are a matched pair. >> reporter: that innovation led to his slogan "the perfect fa pair." a claim that irked his competition. >> they said how can you guarantee a stick is straight? i said you roll it on the dining room table. if it rolls straight, you sell it. if it doesn't, you burn it. >> the term perfect pair

pertains to the physical properties of the stick but conveys the attitude we have in the company. being perfect. being the best. being number one. making the best product. having the best value. >> vic firth and company have spent years and years perfecting the art and science of the drumstick. >> reporter: at 78 years old, firth is always on the move and runs his company the same way, with youthful exuberance, never satisfied with the status quo, he calls himself the continuous unsatisfied customer, always challenging people do things a little bit better. >> are no caps on standards, as far as i'm concerned. we constantly modifying and improving the manufacturing. >> we do have the philosophy f it ain't broke, we break it and try to come up with the better mousetrap. >> reporter: he makes the four-hour drive once a week to make sure things are running

smoothly. >> how are my favorite ladies doing today? >> quality control is very important here. whatever we do for a job, we need to make sure it is correct throughout the whole process. >> the standards never change. we do daily 80,000 sticks. >> reporter: firth said they captured 62% of the drumstick market. >> of course vic is not satisfied with 62%. we would like 80%, 90%. ultimately 100. they said that's not realistic, but we never stop trying ing i improve and increase our market share. >> reporter: nowadays, vic firth's drumsticks go to many different drummers, from classic, to rock 'n roll and everything in between. he has even gained attention of top stars in the food world. >> i applied the same rules to

drumsticks to pepper mills. >> reporter: firth has been running his company for 45 years, you would think after all that time and his success, he would be attempted to wrap, but that's not just in the cards for vic firth. >> i don't let go for nothing. so, if you have a dream or if you have a desire or goal, go for it. aim for the moon. if you only get halfway there, you're a hell of a ways up. that's the mode under which i operate under. ♪ >> can a passion for perfection be the key to small business success? helping us kick off our fourth season, two of our favorite panelists, phil town, author of the book, "rule #1: the simple strategy for successful investing i only 15 minutes a week," and lawrence gelburd, instructor at the wharton school of business.

>> so, i will tell you what's interesting to me about this piece, he said you always have to be the unsatisfied customer. do you do that if you're a small business person? >> you don't have to. you like to be a life-long experimenter. he likes to experiment, he has experties and energy. >> what i saw in this, he also a got the critical things that give him a big moat. secrets on how he makes the sticks. he has the competitor going how do you even make a perfect stick? you roll it on the table, you moron. that creates a brand for him. then he has these incredible people out there saying i have to have this stick. they are not going to switch over to a competitor's stick, whatever the price.

>> he says he's the perfect pair. he has got to deliver on that. >> he was the first to put those in a package together instead of as individual sticks. that sent a message in his packaging and the way he looked at product. you get enough musicians to use it, at that point -- >> i don't know about wharton, this is a great model for starting a business. >> and also to be flexible to go from drumsticks to peppermills, and then you get meals from batali. >> thank you very much. >> the health care debate rages on across the country. some small business owners are worried about proposed legislation and its economic impact. they know benefits help retain employees but the cost is eating into their bottom line. the owner of a hardware store had to consider whether it was worth paying the price to keep customers happy. here is his story. this following program is dedicated to the city and people of san francisco. >> reporter: oversized sky

scrapers, bridges, other landmarks make san francisco a tourist destination, but it's the thousands of small businesses that keep the city ticking and it's the history behind these doors that makes one small business so special. >> the store was started in 1905 by mr. brownstone, hence the name brownie's. >> reporter: by the time steven cornell's family took over in the '50s, the store had become an institution. an integral part of the neighborhood as much for who it served as well as who it hired. >> i owned the store since 1974, i had employees here longer than i have been. >> reporter: the perception is the big box stores can sell merchandise cheaper, cornell knows he needs to give customers something the big guys can't. that's where his employees come in. >> when customers come in here, see familiar faces, they want to go over and talk to lisa, who

knows a lot about this. they know lisa knows it. or they want to talk to harry who knows themselves and is familiar with them. it's nice to talk to somebody you have familiarity with and they feel comfortable with them. >> reporter: cornell believes to keep customers, he needs to keep those relationships that means he needs low turnover. offering benefits is one way he has been able to instill loyalty. he's one of the shrinking number of small business owner providing health care to his 12 full time employees. it's something his father started back in the '50s. >> the responsibility of a business to take care of your employees, and i want to sit there and make sure that i fulfill those requirements wh, part of it is health care benefits. >> reporter: cornell estimates 3 38% of the salaries goes to

paying benefits and he says it's worth it. >> the health care and benefits is one of the most important things in the job for me. i couldn't go to another job without health benefits. >> reporter: with insurance premiums rising, cornell is having a hard time keeping up on his own. >> as different costs go up in my business, it's harder to maintain the same profits i did at one time. >> after struggling with the decision, he recently asked his employees to chip in 20%. while cornell wishes he could pay it all, ink magazine's mike hoffman says he is giving his employees a deal. >> premiums have gone up 73% since 2000 for companies across the board. some companies have been able to shift more of the cost to employees. he shifts 20% of the cost of health insurance to employees, that's actually below average. typically employers shift 26% of

the cost to employees. >> even if it cuts into his own paycheck, cornell plans to keep it that way. >> i have to sacrifice profits, my salary, to give something up. as long as it still stays profitable and within my principles, then i think i will continue to do that. >> so, this is exactly the thing everybody is struggling with. they know -- most small business owners want to give benefits to employees. they care about these people. and feel like they can't because it's so expensive. at this point, you know, the health debate rages on. how do you make that decision? >> i don't know. for me, i've done this back and forth. the employees are critical to this guy's business, right? that's how he competes against walmart. you can do other things with employees. if he continues holding on to this particular benefit, they could price him out of his profits over time. they could chew him up. so i would love -- i would say, look, you have to consider an

hsa, a health savings account, that a deductible is in their best interest, lower premiums to 200 bucks, he's probably paying 900 a month. i would swap that for vacation time. people are equally interested in having time off in their life as they are, you know, having health care. i don't know. it's a tough call. >> i think one of the issues is, you have to look at a higher deductible because you would still have that catastrophic coverage that everyone needs, but try to lower the premiums, and also join bigger groups. find an organization that may allow him to get a lower cost by being in a larger pool. follow legislation, look at blogs about this from other small business owners. also to remind your employees for every dollar of profit you have to bring in $10 of revenue if you're at a 10% margin. sounds like he might be in that can. you can also motivate the employees to realize we need to sell more and control -- make

sure our margins stay as high as we can get them. >> that's one of the issues. for the people out there already offering health benefits, then people start to expect it. i think a lot of employees don't quite understand that you as the employer are actually paying for something. >> yeah. that's after expense dollars. which are expensive. you can tell the employee, you can have a choice, i'll give you another $500 a month i'll pay this expensive premium. if i give you $500 a month go to an hsa and make money on the deal. >> i spoke to one employer who gives people a choice. >> it's critical for everyone right now, since there is health legislation being discussed, every small business owner needs to keep on top of that. that could change the game radically in a short period of time. >> thank you very much. it's such a critical issue now. has been for a while. everyone stay tuned, we will have our panel answer some of your business questions after

this. it comes from a restaurant downtown. a shop on main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy. the reinvention of business begins with them. and while we're sure we don't know all the answers, we do know one thing for certain: we want to help. come see what the beginning looks like at openforum.com time to answer some of your business questions. let's get right to the first one. >> our business has been around for six years. we sort of passed early stages of our business, looking to get to the next step. we would love to know and hear from the panel what are the things once you clear the early stages, to get to the next big level of your business what are the things you could be looking

at to achieve that? >> this is where so many people stumble. though are great at that beginning stage and can't get to the next one, or they do and they fail. >> if you get in there, you get that big customer that big flag ship customer that will take you to the next level, that's one approach. if you have been selling b to c, business to consumer, consider selling b-to-b, business-to-business. >> as people come out of a start-up, looking for cash flow problems, watch out because cash flow is huge. watch out that you are hiring the wrong people. i have to ask this guy the question that is most important, do you really want to do this? if you have a six-year-old business, a lifestyle, consider a carefully. >> and are you the person do it? it's quite a different person to run a start-up than a person to run an established business that is big, growing. >> that's where strategic alliance or joint venture can

come in handy. >> or a new cfo. this is from a business owner on the opposite end, he's just trying to get started. he wrote in i've been trying to raise $95,000 in capital for an innovative tombstone small business. the sba has been no help, i have a business plan and i'm told the plan is very good, but the money will be used for molds, equipment, et cetera. but i have had no luck so far. what am i doing wrong? he shouldn't be going to banks for this thing, particularly right now. >> you have to realize most of these guys are not going to fund you. you have to compete well. if you're competing and your plan is good, then the other two parts of the problem are probably not good. one is do you have a way of

getting back money to your investors as return on money, really enough to attract money in? and the other thing is be sure you can credibly execute the plan. a lot of times you are just a guy, nobody believes you can execute this thing. you need to add an advisory board of people who are high-powered who believe in you, and their weight on the board gives you credibility. >> next question about the power of marketing. >> to advertise nationally was way too expensive, and then to advertise locally is also expensive. i have always done everything through pr. i'm wondering how you can rationalize and capitalize on a great advertising campaign. it seems to me the only way she could do it and feel okay about it is direct advertising. >> figure out who your target market is, once do you that, you define what that target market is and then define what success

is. once you know what that success measure s you get to pay for performance. you will direct the ads to the right people and measure the results. that's the way to go. >> that's right. the key to knowing what your target audience is is to know what is the thing that defines your business success. you have to know what niche you're in. what protects you from being attacked from competition? that is the most rationale kind of advertising. every ad, they're banging that drum. she needs to bang the drum of her business. >> measure it. have a special number that people call or a special website that people go to. so you know i spent this much on advertising, this is how much i got back. >> you put a source code on every amount ofthings. and then you analyze it. >> exactly. not in a position to get ads on "who wants to be a millionaire." finally we have a question

from elizabeth who owns a bed and breakfast. she writes in. from key words to everything else, what is the best way to optimize a business's website search engine ranking? is it worth paying for placement at the top of the lit tings? >> if you go to wikipedia, there's a great description of all the different types of search engine optimization. you need to learn the vocabulary. >> what's a meta tag for most people? >> wikipedia is a great place to start. you can google and actually see what others are doing andnd stand what the mechanisms are. once you're educated, it's easier to get a successful result. >> thanks so much for all this advertise. it was really helpful. we appreciate it. if u you have our questions, head to our website. i don't-ku submit your questions by clicking on the "contact us" link. while you're on the site you can view this segment or other portions of our show.

you'll find more information to help you grow your business. all the information and the advice to help you run your small business is at yourbusiness.msnbc.com. using social networking sites to help your business. which cell phones are best for the small business owner? we'll tell you coming up next. during times like these it seems like the world will never be the same. but there is a light beginning to shine again. the spark began where it always begins. at a restaurant downtown. in a shop main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy. they drive change

and they'll relentless push their businesses to innovate and connect. as we look to the future, they'll be there ahead of us, lights on, showing us the way forward. this is just the beginning of the reinvention of business. and while we're sure we don't know all the answers, we do know one thing for certain, we want to help. come see what the beginning looks like at openforum.com most likely you have a list of favorite blogs you check daily. our website of the week is a good edition: you can read

answers to small business questions or check out ten-second solution toss a dilemma you may be having. there are also top ten lifts of online resources. you can follow the site on twitter and get regular updates. with so many mobile phones on the market these days, how do you choose the one that best fits your business needs? sasha sheeg gan, managing editor from pcmag.com is here to show us some of his favorites. let's start with the iphone. >> a great thing to know is there's a terrific selection of phones out there. the iphone, of course, a lot of people are familiar with. >> do you find it's annoying, though, the touch screen -- >> there are touch screen people and physical keyboard people. if you're one kind, you shouldn't force you self into the other kind. i know a lot of people who like the touch screen. >> for business it's good? >> for business it's good

because it has great microsoft exchange connectivity. it if you have a microsoft exchange server, it will plumb into that. you can get your contacts, calendar, e-mail, all very fast and smooth. >> let's move to the next one. blackberry. >> if you are that keyboard kind of person, then you really want to go for black bury tour. i always say pick your carrier first. >> what do you get with this? easy e-mailing if you're me. >> you get the terrific keyboard, a beautiful screen, very good e-mail, instant messaging. the tour is also a world phone. it's one of the very few verizon and sprint phones that go to europe. >> what do we have here? >> what we have here ask the palm pre. this is available exclusively on sprint right now. it will be coming to verizon early next year. >> there is a lot of talk about this phone. >> absolutely. the pre tries to combine the

sexiness of the iphone with a physical keyboard and with compatibility on a different network. sprint instead of at&t. they do pretty well. it's a very fun interface, and at the same time it's got the physical keyboard. >> why would i get this for business? anything in particular or is it just the keyboard? >> it has very good microsoft exchange connectivity and a terrific web browser. if you're reliant on web-based applications, there's a better browser here than on the blackberry. >> next? >> this is the htc touch pro ii. it's coming to all the other carriers later this year. >> you can do the keyboard or touch? >> a touch screen, a keyboard. it tilts up like a little laptop. it runs windowtion mobile so it connects into microsoft offices very well. if you want the room mince, the gigantic 800-wide screen. >> that's kind of cool. you use it like a mini computer if you want to.

>> you can put it on your desk like a mini laptop. >> and then finally we have -- finally here we have the my touch 3g from t-mobile. this is running the google android operating system. i feel this one is not quite ready for business yet. it's got a lot of good things in it. it does receive exchange e-mail, connects very well to google services. if you're a google-oriented business, this would be good for you. i think android is going to be an up-and-comber. but you might want to wait for the next product. >> thanks for coming on the program. >> thanks for having me. social networking can be a great way to inexpensively market your business and reach new clients. here are five tips for social networking success courtesy of entrepreneur.com. >> number one, set aside time each month to keep up with trends, try to spot the next big thing and be prepared to take advantage of it.

two, find sites that appeal to your audience. for example, if your business isn't about music or entertainment, then my space might not be the place for you. third, watch your posts. if the you're blogging or tweeting, make sure you're discussing topics that are relevant to your business. four, don't be afraid to ask for advice. find out from your readers what they want to know about your company. and number five, be mindful of new connections. before you connect with people online, do a little research on your background. >> to learn more about today's shows, just click on our website. it's yourbusiness.msnbc.com. you'll find all of today's segments plus web-exclusive content with more information to help you grow your business. >> did i get called on? >> yeah. you got called on but you wish you hadn't. you're wrong. it's not b. >> it's c. >> nicely done. >> we're interested in hearing about what's going on with your

small business. so click on the icon to take part in our community discussions about today's topics. next week, the newest trend in retail is popping up in empty storefronts throughout the country. >> a pop-up is a temporary space. so when we sign on, we really don't know exactly how long we're going to be here. so we pop up and we really take it month to month. and it's -- it can be as short as two months to as long as a year. >> how pop-up shops can create buzz for your brand in a budget-conscious economy. till then, i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make your business our business. during times like these

it seems like the world will never be the same. but there is a light beginning to shine again. the spark began where it always begins. at a restaurant downtown. in a shop on main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy. they drive change and they'll relentless push their businesses to innovate and connect. as we look to the future, they'll be there ahead of us, lights on, showing us the way forward. this is just the beginning of the reinvention of business. and while we're sure we don't know all the answers, we do know one thing for certain, we want to help. come see what the beginning looks like at openforum.com