right now on msnbc sunday, off the coast of florida a looming storm. a tropical storm warning issued this morning for that state. a live weather channel report in moments. these struggles have always boiled down to a contest between hope and fear. it was true when medicare was

created, it's true in today's debate. >> another day, another health care town hall. the president facing tough questions and one challenge. highlights ahead. "district nine" number one. what's the appeal to a movie about aliens? a very good morning. i'm alex witt. welcome to msnbc sunday. we have all that, plus prince william's royal secret. a live report from london on that. first, a developing story, a tropical storm warning issued for parts of florida this morning. right now there are two tropical storms churning in the atlantic. ana and bill. bill is expected to become a hurricane. meantime, a new tropical depression in the gulf of mexico taking aim at florida's panhandle later on today. meteorologist mike seidel, a

good sunday morning to you. where do things stand? >> we're looking at a very wet system. this is basically going to be a rain event for the panhandle of florida. this is td number four, designated that at 5:00 this morning. yesterday dumped 2 inches of rainfall in miami, 1 1/2 inches in ft. lauderdale. setting a record. sustained winds of 35 miles an hour. it is a prop cal depression but could become a tropical storm. let's show you radar right now. give you a real good vantage point of the rain. just off the coast from st. pete beach, clear water beach, as you look out over the gulf, a lot of heavy rain, wind gusts probably 25, 30 miles an hour. the satellite that measures the wind, shows this thing is not developing. it's going north-northwest towards the panhandle. some of the outer bands in the st. george island, apalachicola, it is going to take that rain into the beaches this afternoon

and tonight. again a washout as we roll through the afternoon around panama city, destin. forecast to become a storm, claudette, td number four. impact doesn't change. primarily a rain event, maybe 35, 40-mile-an-hour wind gusts. surge not an issue, wave six to eight feet. it moves inland overnight and that's it for that. now out to the atlantic, ana has been fighting for its life for several days. it was a depression. it wasn't. now it is back to a depression. look at the center, right in here. it outran the convection, it is moving pretty fast at 20 miles an hour. there is a bit of a flare-up. it is holding its own, that's about it. holding on for dear life. 40-mile-an-hour sustained winds. because it is heading towards the island, tropical storm watches are now up for puerto rico, u.s. and british virgin islands. some of the leewards. little wind and rains the next day or two.

then it moves through, as it hits hispaniola, it remains to be seen if it can even survive past that point. that's the forecast now. we'll go with it through friday morning. and bill which will likely welcome a hurricane the first one of the season in the atlantic basin, here it is spinning around. takes the track north of the island and right now we think bill is probably going to miss the east coast of the united states and will not cause any major issues in the u.s. but we could have some issues in the islands. still a couple of days away from the antilles. that's your tropical update. a lot happening. a lot has popped up on the screen just in the past day and a half. >> thanks for keeping a vigilant eye on that for us, thank you. now to the politics of health care and president obama. confronting the most popular criticisms of his plan for health care reform, in his latest town hall in grand junction, colorado, the president hit back at those who call his jdz sociideas socialis. >> there have always been those

who serve to scare the american people. that's what happened when fdr tried to pass social security. they said that was socialist. if you are a fiscal hawk and you want to finally make sure that we are looking out for the next generation, then you, more than anybody, should want to reform the health care system. >> when it came time to address those death panel rumors is when things got personal. >> i just lost my grandmother last year. i know what it's like to watch somebody you love who's aging deteriorate and have to struggle with that. so the notion that somehow i ran for public office or members of congress are in this so that

they can go around pulling the plug on grandma? i mean when you start making arguments like that, that's simply dishonest. >> i'm joined now live from scottsdale, arizona, by chief white house correspondent and nbc political news director, chuck todd. good morning. how is the president finally lay the the death panel issue to rest? >> well, i think he has, but it also seems to be clear that there is still enough nervousness even among some democrats on the senate side that i'd be surprised if this -- if part of the bill that is what has gotten misinterpreted by many, particularly i think basically former governor -- alaska governor sarah palin has probably done the most misinterpretation of this, in this attack, trying to call them death panels. this whole provision about

reimbursing medicare patients or the doctors who give counseling on end of life issues, living wills, et cetera, which is a voluntary thing, that whole provision, my guess is it is not going to end up in the final bill simply because they get spooked by all the negative publicity. >> where did death panels originate, this whole thing? i have an idea. i know where you media got on to it, but do you know anything behind the scenes? >> look, the best i could come up with is that it sort of started in the blogosphere a little bit and on talk radio and percolated up into talk ug points with some members of congress. but it started sort of in the talk radio/blogosphere world. >> what about the concept that the public health option is negotiable and when the president said whether or not it happens, he's opens up that

window. what's that all about? what's the likelihood that thing's going to die on the vine? >> well, look. it depends on what your definition of the public option. the administration is trying to redefine it a little bit. a lot of people say public option is a government and insurance-run program and anything that isn't a government-run-ins program is not a public option. there are some who believe that. now the administration is trying to argue and this morning on various sunday talk shows, we've seen kathleen sebelius already argue saying the same thing, look, it is not the be-all, end-all, that definition of a public option. the point is, whatever reform they pass, it has to increase competition between private insurers. they've left wiggle room. the wiggle room will end up probably being this co-op idea which would be, frankly, similar -- one could argue the origination of blue cross/blue shield is sort of a co-op of

sorts. but it would be some sort of co-op where you would have a way for smaller businesses or individual to be able to go through this exchange or whatever and find lower insurance premiums and then the hope is that it would drive down private insurance premiums. >> chuck, you know what? you just encapsulated what i think is part of the problem here. you said let's define what "it" is. there are a lot of people that think that the white house, the president, has taken to the road and these do all these town hall meetings when "it" hasn't been definitively put out there. there are so many different pieces that can be chalked up. would it have been perhaps wiser to figure it out in a definitive way, this is what the bill is, it is concise, solid, here's what it is, and then get out there and start doing the public relations and the marketing of it? >> well, there are certainly some democrats who are frustrated that there isn't one plan, that they could all start pushing, selling and defending. the fact is they can't.

certain members of congress are out there having to defend that first definition i gay you of a public option, then they see the president offer this wiggle room. frankly there's been some frustration. i've already heard from some congressional democrats who are not happy that the president sort of left it that wide open as they've been getting pounded at their own town halls the last couple weeks on this issue. but, there is an up side politically for the white house. what it means is -- there is one bill that hasn't been written, it is a bill that will come out of the senate finance committee, chaired by max baucus. it is the bill that the white house is advising the most on. i know that there are some folks that listen to this and say, come on, there's three bills in the house and there is another bill in the senate. the white house cares about one bill. and they have been working very closely. they keep tabs on this. what the senate finance committee is doing on an hourly basis at some point. the fact is the other -- last week when we were asking robert gibbs about the deal that they cut with pharmaceutical companies, what did they get in

return? his answer to me is, well, it's going to be incorporated into the senate finance committee bill. what's that tell you? that's their bill. that bill isn't out yet. when that bill comes out, that's the one everybody will look to as the one that becomes the president's bill, frankly. >> i'm just curious. remember when nancy pelosi said, good-bye to everybody, they were handed these red, white and blue talking point cards to keep in your pocket and use. have you seen use of those? just anecdotally? >> we've seen some but it is not the obviously these town halls took another direction. the idea of reading facts and figures off of a card i don't think is what some members of congress think would have been a good idea politically. instead they've all handled it their own way. most of them appear to handle it pretty well but i do think we've exposed a few that are just you find out they really can't handle the group setting very

well. >> okay. chuck todd, you can handle anything and you'll do it again for us next hour. thanks so much. health care is the hot topic on this morning's "meet the press." david gregory asked his panel about the reactions we've seen at the town halls to the president's health care reform plan. >> you got president obama out there, in places all over the country, talking and trying to set the record straight. obviously these are emotional issues. this is the noise of democracy. you ask 300 million people what they ought to do about health care and you're going to get a lot of different ideas, some of them very deeply emotional. >> the debate is an uncontrolled federal government that's going to rob -- 50% of everything we spend this year we're borrowing from the next generation. >> wait a minute. i am talking about the tone. i'm talking about violence against the government. >> what is the genesis behind people going to such extreme statements? what is it? we have lost the confidence to a

certain degree. >> you can watch "meet the press" when it reairs at 2:00 p.m. eastern, 11:00 pacific time right here on msnbc. michael vick back on the football field this weekend for the first time in almost three years. the quarterback showed off his skills yesterday in his first nfl practice with the philadelphia eagles since completing his prison sentence for running a dog fighting ring. the 29-year-old took part in limited drills with the offense and his new teammates shared their thoughts with reporters. >> michael vick is a very talented player. he can do anything interest player receiver to quarterback. >> michael vick did not speak to reporters after that practice session. today almost a dozen different wildfires continue to burn across california. all told more than 100,000 acres have burned. michael okwu is live in santa cruz county. i know the last few days we've been hearing that this fire was just miles away from hundreds of homes there. are any of those homes still in

danger today, michael? >> reporter: well, alex, the short answer to that is yes. firefighters will tell you until this fire is 100% contained. all it takes is a strong wind gust to can carry embers across containment lines and start spot fires, perhaps a new fire in some other location. bottom line is the fire has not gotten any closer. there are now 2,100 firefighters here on the scene launching coordinated attacks on the ground and in the air. they are making significant headway. >> okay. michael okwu, thank you very much. still ahead, more on the president's push in the west for his health care reform plan. is he willing to scrap the so-called public option? also, have we seen rock-bottom in the recession? why one boat race stands apart from all the others. keep it here on msnbc sunday. ♪

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msnbc is the place for politics. during his town hall yesterday, president obama seemed to suggest that democrats could be willing to scrap the so-called public option. the proposed government-backed health plan that would compete with private insurers. >> the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform. this is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it. >> i'm joined live from washington by julie mason, white house correspondent for the "washington examiner." did you get a sense the president really believes that the public option is just a sliver of health care reform or is he trying to downplay how much a hit his health care plan

would take without a public option? >> you're absolutely right. they're trying to downplay it. if they have to give up the public option they may be willing to do it. they start signalling that a couple weeks ago saying that might be on the table if that's what they need to get this done. >> take a listen. >> how in the world can a private corporation providing insurance compete with an entity that does not have to worry about making a profit, does not have to pay local property taxes, they do not have to -- they're not subject to local regulations. how can a company compete with that? >> the notion that somehow just by having a public option you have the entire private marketplace destroyed is just not born out by the facts. and in fact, right now you've got a lot of private companies who do very well competing against the government. u.p.s. and fedex are doing a lot

better than the post office. >> post office is losing billions at this point. how does the president handle these tougher questions that the the town halls? have they benefited him? >> well, they went into these tough territories in order to get those questions. new hampshire, colorado, and montana just to bring these kind of opposition forward. all the passion that on the other side. so obama wanted to match that head-to-head. the problem with obama is he gives these sort of sober assessments. he has a hard time matching the passion of the other side. i think that's why over the weekend we heard him start to talk about his grandmother a little bit, something he hasn't wanted to get into so far, but it is an emotional point. it is very resonant. that's why they're doing that, bring up the passion level. >> what about the health care town hall in colorado. the third one in a week for this president. this morning the president again reinforcing his message. he wrote a loengthy op-ed in th

"new york times." if you don't get a chance to get to a town hall meeting, it does make a very strong case for the white house's perspective. get ahold of it, everyone. that said, has the president accomplished what he set out to do this week? >> no, absolutely not, alex. they're on the defensive. they're struggling. they wasted so much time answering this death panel allegation. they have not advanced the ball at all, they are not any closer than they were a week ago to getting health care passed. you see that in the polls. for all their sales effort they have not moved public opinion at all. that's going to be a problem when congress comes back. we're going to keep hearing obama talk about this in september. he needs to do much more to advance the issues. it's not been a great week for them. >> when you come back, we're going to talk about the virginia gubernatorial race and if that's a ref rerendum on perhaps the direction this country is going. a tropical storm warning for

parts of florida. and he landed an interview many journalists dream of. you'll hear from the 11-year-old boy who got to go one-on-one with the commander in chief. do prince william and his long-time girlfriend have a little secret? my doctor told me something i never knew. as we get older, our bodies become... le able to absorb calcium. he recommended citracal. it's a different kind of calcium. calcium citrate. with vitamin d... for unsurpassed absorption, to nourish your bones.

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let's take a trip to the box office. the aliens have arrived and they are making their mark on the big screens across this country. take a look. >> i'll be your weapon's work. >> he's saying watch out for me. >> "district 9" may be the thinking man's action flick, blowing away the competition this weekend.

friday the thriller was nearly doubled the revenue its second and third place competitors. it was made for just $30 million. it is on track to make more than that its first weekend alone. tom o'neil, senior editor of "in touch" weekly. what do you think of this alien takeover? >> i like it but i think what's most interesting about it is a month ago we didn't even know this movie was coming. it has no stars in it. this is a movie just made a hit by just word of mouth. there's something wonderful of that. >> remember "blair witch project"? it is that kind of thing. i think this is a better film. >> same premise, hand-held camera and word of mouth spreading. >> what's the appeal? >> it's a guy flick. the premise of it is a little simplistic. these aliens are refugees, we're putting them in a camp in south africa the same way we did to

black people as white people before. that moral, while interesting to explore by changing personalities around, is a little simplistic. >> you also have the chick flick, the date flick, "the time traveler's wife." critics have been too hot on it. >> no, but i haven't seen it. it is your turn, alex. >> i went and saw the movie yesterday. i did because i just wanted to get out of the house. >> what's your verdict? >> great novel. high expectations. hoping that the critics were wrong when i went in. unfortunately, the critics were right. it just didn't congeal. the loved the actors in it, they did a great job. it is just a very hard film to have a linear time going on one level, then having this guy popping in and out from the past, the future, it just doesn't -- it doesn't quite make it. >> that's a shame. i hear it was a wonderful book. >> fabulous book. rachel mcadams is just adorable. it just didn't quite make it. do i get paid extra today?

>> good reveal. >> you can do the next anchor block. tom, thank you. thousands turn out for the annual bathtub regatta in belgium. hundreds took part in the race pounding across in a river boat made up of the two smallest bathtubs. >> some entries were pretty creative. including one with an ostrich and water slide. only three rules -- a bathtub must be part of the vessel, motors are not permitted and sinking a competitor's bathtub is out of the question. >> we'll be right back, everyone. (announcer) if you think all batteries are the same, consider this: when a tornado tore through holly, colorado, air life denver took to the air... their night-vision goggles keeping them safe on a perilous flight...

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less productive fights over health care. at his colorado town hall the president once again called out the media for playing up scuffles of town hall meetings repeating he had word for those who said it was an attempt to "gill granny." >> i had people a couple of years ago who thought this was a good idea, now getting on television suggesting it is a plot against grandma or to sneak euthanasia into our health care system, that feels dishonest to me and we've got enough stuff to deal with without having these kinds of arguments. >> for more on the fight over health care, what crosses the line, joined live from washington a conservative

blogger, peter, and liz, good morning. peter, the president says that tv causes a ruckus. but he also says it is natural the debate over health care is going to be an emotional one. is it really fair for him to single out the media for playing these emotional moments? >> well, i think it is fair for the president to call out the fact that the media is focusing so solely on this very small majority of people or minority of people that are going to these health care meetings and getting t inting in the faces o members of congress and screaming. it is completely fair that they show up and are expressing their views, but it's the nature of the debate and muddies the waters. that's what the opponents of the president's health care plan want at this moment, which is just to throw everything they can into the debate, to scare people and gin up this kind of

reaction against what we all think is progress. most americans think it is progress on the health care front. >> liz, do you think all the noise from the town halls is drowning out the real debate or is it part of it? >> i think it's part of it. some of it isn't like the most constructive aspect of the debate that's ongoing but i do think it is part of it. the president is right this is a very important issue and it is one about which the public has very strong emotions. the public is pretty divided over whether they support this plan or do not. it is not surprising you'll see people become very emotional at these town hall meetings. it is not surprising the president wouldn't seen more constructive debates going on at these town hall meetings. >> we've got both sides suggesting we are in for a horror show of sorts if their opponents win the fight. here's the gop's take on that. >> now we face the most dangerous experiment of all --

government takeover of health care. an experiment that will cost over $1 trillion, threaten your private insurance, and cost taxpayers hundreds of billions in new taxes. the presidency of barack obama, a failed experiment in just 200 days. >> okay. it sounded like a takeoff on frankenstein's laboratory or something like that. peter, what are your thoughts on that? >> the role that the gop is playing right now is just an inconstructive role. i think for the people who are really paying attention they realize this. if barack obama passes -- and the democrat in congress pass health care -- which they will, we are going to get health care this fall -- then it is going to be a huge pay-back for democrats for a generation. the republicans have to fight it. and that's their role as they see it right now. it is completely unconstructive. i'm curious what liz thinks.

>> i don't think that it's true that republicans have nothing to propose where health care is concerned. i do think that there is an effort to block a lot of what's under skgs from going through. that's not surprising because when you look at things from a conservative or libertarian standpoint there are many, many problems with what is being proposed. we do have a problem in this country with the rising national debt. it is very fast rising. we have a huge deficit. this is something that cbo has taken issue with with regard to this particular health care proposal that's under consideration. that's something that a lot of americans are concerned about right now. we are looking at government having a bigger role in health care and that's something that americans are also concerned about. i think when you see some of the failures of government in recent years, that's not terribly surprising. >> let's take a look at the democrats and what they are putting out there for the public to consume. >> the government takeover of

health care. the washington takeover. >> the government takeover. >> it was a complete washington takeover of health care. >> is health care being taken over by the feds? >> seriously, it is this whole frannen stein thing out there. what they're saying is they're showing elements of fear there. peter, is it fair to simplify the argument this much -- even if the president says opponents have legitimate concerns? >> well, opponents do have legitimate concerns. that's where we are. the president put out an op-ed this morning in the "new york times" where he said we're about 80% there towards health care. the last 20% is what we're fighting on and that's where opponents of the president are trying to, as i said, to muddy these waters and scare people and gin up this fear that somehow is going to be a government takeover and all this

hyperbole and exaggeration you see in all of these ads on all sides. but that's politics. that's where we are at this moment. when we come back from this august recess you're going to see a bill come out of the senate. you're going to see -- one proposal that democrats can go back and sell. right now we don't have a plan. it is just there's one bill out of the house, and it will help really focus this debate once we see a health care plan put out and supported by the white house. >> liz, what are we going to see come september? >> i think we're going to end up seeing something that's pretty watered down from what the president originally wanted, if indeed we see something that's capable of passing at all. there is a lot of discussion about how republicans are saying no to this and republicans are blocking this. in the end of the day democrats have a strong majority in both houses of congress. if this doesn't get down, it is not the republicans' fault. it is on the democratic party. >> thank you very much. a new twist to one of britain's biggest jewel robberies. london police just released some

security camera images. they show the men behind a $65 million heist lingering outside the jewelry store two days before committing that crime. police are saying the men planned to rob that store on august 4th but postponed a $1.65 million reward is offered for their capture. seems prince william and kate middleton might have a secret. will the couple be tying the knot soon? joining us from london, nbc news's tom aspell. good morning. let's get to the secret. what is it? >> good morning, alex. according to the news of the world, one of britain's top selling sunday newspapers, prince william and kate middleton have reached an understanding that they will marry within the next two years. their plan has the blessing of the royal family which wants to see william well established as hard working responsible prince and heir to the throne first. he will represent the queen on official tours to australia and south africa in the next two years. part of the heightening of his profile really. the royals want to mike sure

that william is a stand-alone royal in his own right before releasing any news about any engagement. >> how much does that have to do with the lingering legacy of diana overshadowing charles? >> well, i think the palace wants to be absolutely sure. princess diana overshadowed prince charles from the moment they announced their engagement. she dominated coverage of the royals right up until the day she died. the royal family doesn't want to see that happen again. they see prince william as the future of the monarchy, the new face of the royal family in the modern age and they don't want anything to distract from that image. they want to groomt young couple to give the monarchy a fresher, more relevant feel. that's part of the reason they're urging them to be patient for the time being. >> tom aspell, thank you very much from london. a rough day in baseball for three major league players. those pictures in our next hour on msnbc sunday. it can be tough living with copd... but i try not to let it slow me down.

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be. r. msnbc's rachel maddow appearing this morning on "meet the press" taking on the health care issue along with moderator david gregory's panel. the panel included former house majority leader representative dick armey, now head of freedom works, an organizer of protestors at town hall meetings. the discussion focused on the recent outbursts we've seen at those town halls. >> i'm appalled by what i see, too, by some people. >> it has no place in the debate. >> i repudiated it when moveon.org did it to george

bush. did anybody at this table repudiate it? we just heard it was all right when moveon did it. >> the t.e.a. party patriots health care freedom coalition partner, what they've got on their front page of their website, top item is a video showing the violence at the town hall in tampa, florida. essentially promoting that as if that was a good thing that happened, that showed what the health care freedom coalition wants to have done in the health care debate. freedom works is part of that coalition. can you say it you denounce it but the organization you head is part of it. >> you can watch "meet the press" when it reairs at 2:00 p.m. eastern this afternoon on msnbc. watch "the rachel maddow show" each weeknight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. what to expect on wall street this week. the big do-it-yourself chains are due to report lower profits

last quarter as homeowners are doing fewer renovations. we will hear from home builders about where people are buying new homes. we'll also learn about where housing starts are beginning to rebound. then on friday we will get the july existing home sales. also this week we'll hear from retailers like target, saks fifth avenue and the gap. they are expected to post weaker earnings. but tjx companies, parents of the off-priced marshall's and tj maxx stores among the few bright spots in the retail area during the recession. is the worst of the recession over? we should get a better picture of how the economy's doing when the latest jobless claims numbers are released later this week. joining me live in the studio, reporter an anchor with forbes.com. is the worst of the recession over? >> the worst of the recession is over. when we look back at the first quarter of 2009, that is going to be considered the worst part of the recession. so we're out of that. don't expect a strong raefr even if we see the gdp crack into

positive territory, that's only a small part of the economy. it is not the real economy. even looking at our last jobs report, jobs were a lot better than expected with around 250,000 job losses and unemployment ticked lower just slightly. that's good but that's still 250,000 job losses. until that number starts to recover we won't have a strong recovery. >> can you look at that again looking for silver lining anywhere you can, with jobless numbers not plummeting? have they leveled out? bad numbers all together for even one person who loses his job. but not the numbers in the first quarter. >> of course i'll take an improvement over any decline. but they're reporting better than expected results by cutting costs. but they're not hiring yet and might not for several quarters. >> existing home sales numbers for june come out on friday. -- rather for july will. the ones in june gave us 3.6% of a rise.

but sales levels still weak overall. what do you expect to see friday when those numbers are released? >> i think we'll see a slight improvement. also with housing starts to come out on tuesday, then on friday, we'll see a small improvement in both areas. the thing is the bulk of these sales is really foreclosures. when you talk about those june numbers, the slight increase, 30% of those sales were distressed property, foreclosures, short sales, et cetera. that's still a problem, foreclosures are still high, inventory is still high so prices will be depressed for quite a while. >> given that so many economists think that the epicenter of all this problem was the housing market, how important is that housing number when you look at that? how much does that give you a barometer of where things are? >> that's a huge part of the puzzle. but at the same time employment is also a large part of it. consumers right now are under pressure, trying to increase their savings, not going out and spending. consumers make up 70% of our economy. that needs to really improve. all the parts need to work

together for this recovery to happen. >> still so many areas for it to come up. >> at least we're improving. still to come, jetblue you a ael you can fly travel pass. the story next hour on msnbc sunday. applebee's 2 for $20!

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a developing story, the florida panhandle's under a tropical storm warning right now. a newly formed tropical depression is swirling off the gulf coast. tropical storms ana and bill continue churning across the atlantic with bill expected to strengthen into a hurricane. new information is coming out within minutes of the national hurricane center. new details here this morning in the case of a new york mom who was tasered right in front of her own children

during a traffic stop in january. this police dash cam video shows a police officer grabbing the woman from her car, knocking her down with numerous taser shots. officers said he pulled over the 38-year-old mother of three for speeding and talking on the phone but harmon says she was doing neither. >> i knew that he was lying. i knew that i wasn't speeding. i knew that i wasn't on the cell phone. and i wanted him to show me the tape. >> we'll bring in a legal panel to talk about this. karen de ssoto, prosecutor have dropped all charges against audra harmon. she says that's not good enough, i'm going to sue the sheriff's department on aarray of charges including false arrest and police brutality. she have a case here? >> of course she does. she was tastered in front of her children. she was stopped for -- even if she did get pulled over for talking on the cell phone, that's a ticket, alex.

that doesn't end up with you in jail and being tasered. >> she even said at the time i was resting my hand while driving. and just the police officer saw that, he wouldn't even take a look at her cell phone to see if there had been a call recently. >> this happening in front of your children is very traumatic. the your is going to award her a lot of money. she absolutely has malicious prosecution, false imprisonment, the tickets were dropped so that's in her favor. >> now, for you, as we talk about this, david, audra harmon got out of the car. does she complicate things and not do herself justice by having done that? >> the lesson here is you never get out of your car when you deal with the police. however, that does not justify by any stretch of the imagination this police officer's actions. it was completely unjustified. i agree that this case should -- she should be suing civilly and

there will be a jury award here. >> a want to get to a sound bite of what she said why she got out of the car. >> he wanted to arrest me and so after i got in he wanted me back out again. instead of just leaving -- i got back in my car. it should have been over right there. and i wouldn't have reacted like i did if i was on my cell phone or i was speeding. >> how does this play into her lawsuit. karen says she has a case, she's going to win it. >> it is certainly going to be a defense here. the police have to come up with some sort of defense when this case goes to trial. it will be settled so i don't think in the end it will play a role. clearly the defense will be she was getting out of her car and the police officer was justified -- >> people get out of the car all the time. usually the police officer will back up five feet and tell them "get back in the car." so it is not unusual.

>> the greater question, we're seeing these kind of institutes in situations all the time. are tasers out there too much? are they too much and too freely used by police? >> i think that police officers feel it is not a gun and therefore it is less intrusive but it really is intrusive. you can die of a heart attack. absolutely. now of course that we have videotapes in a lot of police cars, we're going to see more and more of these. great for us but not so good. >> i'm right now handling a death case as a result of a taser. the circumstances were out in the hamptons it involved drugs. but the police used a taser and the person ended up dying. >> they use them instead of guns because they feel they are less intrusive. however, it is an assault. you can die. there needs to be a little bit more after reason than just pulling somebody over for a ticket. somebody can die from this. >> we agree to that.

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