animals now, pretend you're in rehabilitation and on a long road to recovery. >> maybe they should ask some dogs, right? madman, we have an early call. anybody, you have to see it, don't give it away. >> you did not? i did not. >> definitely. >> i saw it. that's why you're dressed like that, right? >> i was twittering all day, madman, 12 hours to madmen, i have a lot of people following me on the left, on the center and on the right. very, very conservative. about three or four minutes i was like, okay, a lot of people wondering what kind of show and i said this is my favorite show. it had last night, i am not going to spoil it for everybody, it came very early and i think i'd love our e-mailers to e-mail in throughout the day and tell me if i'm wrong, it had the most

graphic guy scene i think i've ever seen on tv, really. you always talk about if the door is closed, but i think we crossed a cultural threshold last night and pushed the envelope and we're not going to -- don't show people of that. >> and that was good? >> you know -- >> dude, it's whatever gets you through the night. it's all right. all i'm saying, it is in our culture today in 2009, it is still really shocking, even to a lot of people that are very progressive. they don't want to see men kissing. i'm very open when you start showing two men starting to kiss. >> it's not pay per view, it's on regular tv. >> you know what, dude, passing up judgments, i am the cultural, you know, whatever. >> was the show good, though?

was it a good premiere? >> you know, i think they, they didn't jump any shark but it was a little more obvious this year. >> little self conscious. >> a bit self-consciouses. that being said madmen is still madmen, the opening scene, again, i don't want to tell the whole thing, but the opening scene really looked like something you would have seen in a college play where a guy is stirring milk and suddenly the light goes up and he sees his background. >> this had a profound effect on him. >> you're asking me questions and i'm answering the questions. >> they lost me a little bit last season when he went back to his old life. >> exactly. >> somebody did a website -- >> come back and tell me this is a great, this is a great show and it's still the best show on tv. and the big news yesterday, not "madmen" not michael vick, but

public options. >> oh, my gosh. let's decide whether it's essential or not. >> it's not essential if you listen to what the president said in the town hall meetings, if you listened yesterday on cnn, it's optional. >> i got that. >> which mean it's gone and you probably have the most powerful senator on this issue saying, so, it's not going to pass. we could keep talking about it all we want, it's not going to pass. the public option seems to be dead on the right and we move from public options to co-ops. maybe co-op death boards. >> like a food co-op. at some point barack obama will say don't eat a lot, drink a lot and drink more milk and we'll see if some people -- milk, milk why don't you just -- >> that happens to be largely related to the op-ed i have chosen this morning that will

make you very angry. >> do i look like the type of guy -- >> i'm sorry, what was that word? >> chill. >> no, the first word. >> quiescent. >> what do you think? >> that guy is chill. >> i have chill after to balance it out. >> this is going to be a great show, and i'm serious. this is a historic show. >> monday on august -- >> about to change people's lives. >> all right, a lot to talk about. >> all right, we'll start right there. time now for a look at today's top stories. in a race to regain control of the health care debate, the white house appears ready to concede on the so-called public option portion of its health care reform. both health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius and robert gibbs said a government's

option was not essential. >> what we don't know is exactly what the senate finance committee is likely to come up with. they've been more focused on a co-op not for profit co-o op as opposed to a competitor, state government-run program and what is important is choice and competition and i'm convinced at the end of the day that the government will have both of those. that is not the essential element. >> people ought to be able to have some competitor in that market. there ought to be a choice that they have. the president has, thus far, sided with the notion -- >> is that a hedge? >> no, no, no. what i'm saying is that the bottom line for this for the president is what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market. >> this is something they did want at one point. they're clearly backing up because it's not going to work. >> just politically the votes

aren't there and now they move from this, the public option, for a lot of people on the left, the critical element. they don't trust competition in the marketplace and they don't trust insurance companies and they want the federal government coming in and setting, i would suggest an artificially lower price, but they would suggest a fair price. and the health care stock could explode on this news. this is, this is a new step back for the american left wanting this public option, if, in fact t doesn't go through. >> it's a victory for the insurance companies. this is something they didn't want because it was going to make prices go in a direction that was probably not beneficial to them. in other words, hurt the profits of the big insurance companies and the big health care companies. >> we need to move on o. what would health company companies prefer?

living in a world where there is a public option, or living in a world where barack obama lays done some pretty tough consumer protections. you cannot kick somebody off because they have a certain illness or injury. you cannot deny coverage because of pre-existing injuries. you have to keep kids on until they're 25, 26. do insurance companies fear both equally or was public option always the big stick. >> public option was always the big stick because when you talk about the latter just the president talking tough, there are things they can fight back against specifically. >> we're going to continue to talk about this. so many great clips. we will try to get some light into this debate. meanwhile, tropical storm claudette made landfall on the florida panhandle today. the first to hit the mainland today. 11 to 12 inches of rain are expected a as far as central and southern alabama and still far from land is bill which strength

nnd to the first hurricane of the atlantic season today. >> coming right to pensacola. let's hope they stay weak. across california, fire crews and hundreds of families are keeping close watch on wildfires being fanned by hot temperatures and dry winds. 11 blazes have been burning across the state. on sunday, hundreds of residents returned home when an evacuation order was lifted in santa cruz in the santa cruz mountain towns. in russia, investigators are looking into a deadly fighter jet collision during airbatics practice during the air show and one pilot died. five others on the ground were hurt when the plane crash under to a residential building. milwaukee mayor tom barrett is hospitalized in stable condition after a man attacked him with a metal pipe. he tried to help a mother and granddaughter in a domestic dispute. the suspect later fled the scene

and was later arrested. any official government business to take care of in chicago today, you might have to put it on hold today. parts of chicago shut down due to the city's financial crisis. most offices, including city hall, will be closed. >> you know, i'm so glad bill is out on vacation. when we have three hurricanes. you can make fun of my wife day and and day out about her. my wife wouldn't come back to new york city until karins left. >> she is here now. >> why is she here? >> because bill is gone. >> let's go to nbc meteorologist

raphael meranda. the first hurricane of the atlantic season and ana continues to weakens across portions of the caribbean and bringing ton of heavy rain across the panhandle and claudette did make landfall earlier this morning and just heavy rain up to ten inches possible and a stormy day across much of i-10 from tallahassee west. in the northwest we're dealing with a lot of sunshine and the heat is big problem across the major city. temperatures back into the 90s. heat indices close to 100 in many spots. heat advisory in effect for new york city today going for a high of 93 degrees warm and steamy. now, across the midwest, we're dealing with severe weather in places like chicago, st. louis and even kansas city and, of

course, the soaking rainfalls across the gulf coast. hot in sacramento, 97 with sunshine there and 108 in phoenix and pleasant day in seattle 77 degrees with lots of sunshine. back to you. >> raphael, thank you very much. here's how you do it, he's a pro. never insults my wife. we have a big show this morning. >> we have governor howard dean. can't wait to talk to him. we'll go to phoenix where president obama makes his next stop on the health care swing and we'll check in with todd, chuck todd. we have new york magazine hen drik and an exclusive look at the story politico is looking at. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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president obama is taking his fam eel to yellowstone park to see old faithful, isn't that nice? meanwhile, hillary clinton returns from overseas to see old unfaithful. >> as a guy that knocks these guys for continuing to tell george bush jokes, i mean, my god, if you're bill clinton,

you're thinking, come on. >> but then, again, you made such a clown of yourself in that department. >> maybe conan knows something we don't know. this very day, the 11th anniversary of the day that bill clinton went on national television on primetime and admitted -- >> now, that's going too far. >> you're celebrating the 11th anniversary -- >> 1998. >> let it be, let it be. let it be, let it be. >> let it go. >> move on. >> chief political correspondent for politico. he has a look at the playbook. happy anniversary to you, mike. >> happy monday to you, willie. we're publishing up our gerald ford humor around here. let's get to an exclusive story in the playbook about the house vote on health care. what's it looking like? >> pretty hot in the kitsch whn house members get back their

leadership want to let things cool down from these town hall meetings. no vote on health care right away. they'll try to have a vote on the house version of the health care bill by the end of the month. give it a few weeks after labor day and for them to get a little better idea of where things are going in the senate. they want to get it done this year and they don't want it to hang out there forever. aiming for the end of september -- >> mike, can i first ask you about the house-in senate. do you agree with my assessment? >> i always agree with your assessment. >> willie, what is next? >> if they don't pass it this year, i don't believe in false deadlines. i thought the august deadline was stupid. i have always seen the deadlines fail and you make bad legislation. but i do agree if health care is not done in 2009, it is not getting done because when people go home over christmas break,

they're going to get slammed by both sides if they don't, if they don't get it done. >> the president has said that it needs to get done this year if it's going to happen and it's just going to get harder. it's going to get more and more picked apart and it's like when something lies around in the yard, it just picks a lot on it and you don't want to bring it in the house. >> get it done. >> i don't know, i don't know what it is. exactly. >> known ticks are horrible. >> yeah, you need to either get it done or kill it so people can go home and either spin it over the christmas break and the holiday break or just get it behind them. >> that's part of the reason that the white house chief of staff raum emanuele wanted it done. he wanted democrats to have a year to brag about it or explain it depending on how things were looking ahead of the mid-term

congressional elections in november. >> willie, a big anniversary. >> it is. did you hear about this? >> another anniversary. >> not the one you were just talking about? >> the six-month anniversary of the signing of the stimulus bill. >> boy, that went down smooth. >> hold on, we're not done with that. >> i knew joe would be wearing banners for this one. >> the leather, far from a bill i called, call it a steamy pile of garbage from the beginning. >> but you still wish it a happy birthday. >> even steaming piles of garbage deserve a happy birthday. >> one tipoff about how this is playing, let's just say it was not democrats that alerted us to the fact that it was the six-month anniversary. in fact, lead story of "usa today" a poll saying 57% of people said it's not a good idea. 60% of people didn't even think it would be a good idea in the long run and here's an amazing fact. only 18% of people had thought it had helped them personally.

so, put aside the reality of it, there's a big sales job left to do on the stimulus. but this is a chance for the president, as with health care, to be on his white horse. if the economy picks up a little more than we thought, the stimulus will rightly get partial credit. >> as john kennedy said, failure is in order. >> that's why mom and dad aren't reminding america, hey, little baby, stimulus turns six today. >> angry next door neighbors. >> finally, we always like when athletes or people around sports get involves in politics. mike allen, who is the latest? >> the republicans are discovering that the nfl is a great place to recruit. they feel it helps them with their message of commitment, hard work, valus and so there's now a couple people who are trying to follow in the footsteps. >> did michael vick make an announcement last night? >> no politics in the michael

vick interview. he said he found god, which we were happy about. >> he found god and he loves animals, please. who is your pr company? >> you don't like god or animals, mika? >> i just like reality. >> no, you know what, mika grew up in the mean northeast streets of harlem and she's a little more cynical. >> you're talking to a woman who has gutted a deer, okay? >> you know, by the way, they make you do that at madeira before you graduate. >> if you do it, where do you get to go? william. >> is it a problem that they interviewed me and went to jail? >> no, mean streak. >> politico.com. >> you all have a great week. >> really quickly, mike, name the two players? >> jay and they're hoping to get

sam wise the former coach. >> bangles coach. almost won a super bowl. >> thank you, mike. >> notre dame says he's happy on espn and he doesn't want to run for congress. >> mike, thank you. >> thank you, mike. coming up, a look at morning papers from around the country and so exciting we have pete campal here. >> we're going to talk about newspapers. >> i love your speech, by the way, in vermont talking about the morning newspapers. find out more about upcoming guests and get show recaps and remember to text me, also my pin number for my atm card. 622639. kids, that's 622639. a lot of cash in those swift accounts. we'll be right back on "morning joe." total skin renewal.

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>> look at that. sun coming up. >> it's a beautiful shot. early morning, looking good. hey a lot to talk about today. >> yes, we do. >> your op-ed. >> this is is the next block. >> still, my god. it's always personal against me. always a personal attack against me and the front pages of all the papers. one huge stories and we'll show

the papers right after news. what's happening in news? >> a look at today's top stories. president obama will seek to shore up public support for the war in afghanistan today, just days before an afghan presidential election widely seen as a major test of his strategy. big story. the president will address a military veterans group in phoenix at a time when u.s. combat deaths are rising and polls show a softening of public backing for the 8-year-old war. an ailing american who had a seven-year prison sentence in i myanmar is undergoing testing. tropical storm claudette made landfall in the florida panhandle. the storm is on track, that could take over the western part of the panhandle and into southern alabama later today. fortunately, it's not expected to bring significant flooding or

wind damage. that's a quick look at the news. now, let's take a look, joe, at the morning papers. >> i want to start really quickly on something you've played off of. "financial times" talking about the situation in afghanistan. pete hammel, all the generals are saying we need to send more troops to afghanistan. >> looks like the russian generals did and just like the british generals in the 19th century. >> this is barack obama is in a difficult position to say the least, he can listen to his generals or he could not listen to his generals and if he doesn't listen to his generals he's attacked. i mean, he is going to get attacked no matter what. what should the president do? >> i think they have to start putting together some kind of conversation with the taliban separate, there is apparently different branches of the taliban and different degrees of fanaticism and separate out some of them, bribe them, corrupt them, whatever is necessary.

and try to separate this -- >> yeah. >> and it worked in western iraq. >> yeah. well, sort of. you know, they're still killing people. >> after the election. >> give everybody lots of cash for about six months. >> i think we're going to be in afghanistan for a very long time. >> i don't disagree with you. >> mika, your father would probably be very insightful on this. the russians when they came in wanted a secular government, they opened schools for women, they tried to enfranchise women and, of course, we paid the to kill them. >> you're absolutely right, he has experience on that issue, for sure. let's look at the "wall street journal." we should have him back on. >> the taliban. we in america don't understand

how unpopular the taliban is, even in afghanistan 12, 15% of people support the taliban. it really is, it's a radical group holding an entire country hostage. >> "wall street journal." white house opens door. >> and the waet washington times" obama eases pressure for public health option. >> "new york times," in southern and eastern afghanistan people are being warned against going to the polls. >> the "usa today" has 57% of americans saying the stimulus package is having no impact on the economy or making it worse. happy days are here again. also, "usa today" tiger woods tamed in a pga shootout. he's been a different man since he's come back. >> that hurt. >> pensacola news journal, tropical storm claudette the first named storm to make

landfall in the u.s. this year. by the way, happy birthday pensacola. atlantic media, political director ron brownstein and mika's must-read opinion pages on the fat tax. >> that's a good argument for it. >> you're washing "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. r arthritis. in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever. - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers.

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with us now, political director of the atlanta media company ron brawnsteen. thank you for being with us. we now have to listen to mika preaching about eating steak. >> no, no. come on, there's going to be somebody at this table who understands. >> go ahead and read it. >> doesn't look. >> all right, "new york times magazine" had a great piece today. it's on the fat tax and he talks

about the cleveland clinic, which will not hire smokers and the chief heart surgeon there, chief executive also says he would love if he could, legally, not to hire obese people. he says this one, why is it unfair? has anyone shown the love of conservation doesn't matter apply? people's weight is a reflection of how much they eat and how active they are. the country has grown fat because it's consuming more calories and burning fewer our national -- we should declare obesity a disease and say we're going to help you get over it, that's the chief executive of cleveland clinic. it does make sense. he goes on to say, this is now the reporter of the article, "david." the debate over health care reform has resolved around how insurers, drug companies, doctors, nurses and government

technocrats might be persuaded to change their opinion. they do need to change their behavior, but there has been far less discussion on how the rest of us might change our behavior. if we have little responsibility for our own health we outsource it to something called our health care system. that's why it's so expensive. we're all fat, we smoke and we don't take care of our selves. >> the numbers are unbelievable. the last thing i saw, 100 million americans are obese. 100 million. >> 30 pounds overweight is clinically obese. so -- >> i'm telling you, i'm on the road. >> having town meetings in colorado the last few days, an alternative vision on how to do that. >> financial incentives if they undertake healthy behaviors. encouraging people to change their behavior is probably a

more salable way of doing that and the senate bill encourages companies along that same line because it's true. the person -- >> insurance if you exercise. >> if you exercise, if you stop smoking and all those kind of -- >> never drink again and they have a monitor in your house to see if you're drinking. a camera on your refrigerator. >> i heard the cost, 9.5% of our health care dollars go to dealing with obesity. >> might be more. >> think about the big food companies, think about the sugar lobby and there's a whole lot of vested interest involved. >> all the different health care ramifications of obesity, though, from your heart to everything else to the way your body, all your health care problems if you're obese are multiplied by ten. >> i don't know about that. i carry an extra 30 or 50 pounds -- >> then you're obese.

>> joe obese? 6'4" hides a multitude. >> my wife who is 105 pounds goes insane when she's stuck in the middle seat in an airplane with two people out of taro paintings. >> so, pete, come on, when you were a young reporter that's when men were men and eat steak after steak and drink wine, smoke cigarettes. >> and now they're all dead. i have gone to the funerals. >> after many months at the hospital at our expense. >> ht that health care problem. >> that's the point. save amazing amounts on social security. these people will never get to be 65. >> people should do this bad behavior because it is cheaper. >> it is america. >> it is a little goolish. >> but, ron, let's talk about health care, you were out in colorado.

what did you see when you went out there with the president who right now is upside down in the poll numbers when it comes to health care. >> i was out following michael bennett and did a series of town meetings from frisco edwards, the supporters are getting more organized. there are more supporters at these events than they were originally and that gap has narrowed. what hasn't narrowed is the intensity gap. no question right now that there is more energy on the opponents of reform than there are on the supporters of reform. but i was struck that, you know, and what's clear also and goes to the point about your headline of the stimulus plan. the objection to health care is a subset of a much broader kind of resistance really focus around the role of government. the health rising in '94 take over of the house and senate. >> in '94 everybody talked about the deficit, the deficit the

perot people talked about. like you said, that was a subset of a much bigger concern, which was the centralized state is growing too quickly. the federal government is getting in my business, back off. all these protests have less to do with this health care plan because, let's face it, most people don't know what's in this health care plan and ramifications. this is one more step of a government getting too big after eight years of george bush spending too much. >> look, a small government constituency and it is real and it has been awakeened and the question for democrats is how they deal with it. listen to bennett at these meetings because he's dealing with a purple state. >> was he good? >> he was surprisingly strong in affirming that we could not simply leave the status quo. he was facing tough audiences and he argued very strongly for health care. look, we have to find ways to be fiscally responsible and we have to respond to concerns and i'm struck, joe, that feels like it is a counterintuitive decision

that many democrats are reaching out of this. which is that they have to go forward because what they're facing is a challenge that is much broader than health care and if this kind of conservative resistance that's emerged takes the health care bill off the tracks, many democrats feel it's just the beginning of unravelling the presidency. some people believe they have to go forward. >> but, andy, there is no doubt that when it comes to big ticket spending items, the president's political -- i'll upset people by telling the truth, but the sis the truth. the president's political capital is spent. he is not going to be able to push a huge spending program for the rest of this term unless the economy really turns around and that is, this is a small subset of a much bigger problem for this president, no more big spending. you're going to have to show us where every dime comes from and how we pay for it. >> watch the birdie, the economy may be turning.

that's number one. number two, i think he really needs to focus on what's wrong with health care. keep saying over and over and over again the quality is going down, the costs are going up and the red tape is increasing and try to say that this is the only way that this is going to be, you know, fixed. we need to have these steps in place. i mean, if he doesn't do that, then if he gets in this debate about big government/small government, this game is up. >> he loses. >> pete, have you been surpri d surprised, again, who was it, i'm not saying, there are many season to a presidency. let not saying this president has hit the wall, but as far as big spending and big tick et items, are you surprised, even three months ago you're spending $3 trillion and not thinking about it, but now people demand to know-how are you going to pay for this? >> rightly so, i think. because you can't keep having

the illusion that we are the all powerful nation, that we are wrong. you know, instead of anthens, we are rome. and the notion that we can have soldiers, for example, in 120 countries in addition to iraq and afghanistan and keep paying out those immense budgets, while we're trying to get health care is bizarre. >> you can't do it. >> you can't do it. we'll have to shrink some of our ambition as a nation and deal with our own people. >> you know, i need to get to my book, that's what i say. the word is restraint. restraint at home, restraint abroad, restraint we haven't shown for a really long time. >> come home, america. >> ron, i want to, don't make me sound like brother buchanan. there are words -- >> that was brother mcgovern. >> brother mcgovern. i didn't know he was a

conservative. quickly "usa today"/gallop poll. the bill the president says we must have to save this economy. over the long term, will the economic stimulus plan make the economy better, worse or have no impact. better 38%. worse or no impact 60%. has the economic stimulus plan made your personal situation better or worse or had no impact? better 18% and worse or no impact 81%. that first bill has framed so much for this administration. >> last week y think they've done a lot of things right on health care with the shadow the stimulus plan is casting everything that came after it, something they have underestimated. once you spend that much money, people are going to be naturally more uneasy about another big spending plan and the size of the deficits. they have some assets here. >> we have to go and i want to

talk to pete and andy about this, as well. this is a lot. the economy may be turning around, people aren't scared like they were six months ago where they spend whatever and it's kind of like, you know, people voted for republicans because they were scared of losing the cold war until we won the cold war and elected bill clinton the next year. >> ron brownstein, thank you for being with us. ( conversation ) garth, you're up.

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welcome back to "morning joe." this is a beautiful shot, mika. you have to admit. >> not that she hates the pictures of america, she just hates america. >> that's not right, joe. >> she appreciates good photography, she just hates the subject. >> you know the thing is, you may consider loving america -- comparing america to trench collapses. >> i'm just saying. >> i will not apologize for loving my country. just stop. just knock it off. >> hey, anybody see this yesterday? the golf. >> i watched that because i was waiting -- >> going head-to-head to the guy you had to think was going to get blown out of the water. the guy from south korea that most people frankly never heard

of unless you watch too much golf. tiger was 14-0 in tournaments he had the lead in the final round. mumbling to himself there. he did stay par to shoot 7 under and seven bogeys including this one on the 17th hole. gives the chance now to 37-year-old y.e. yang. there he is, knocking in steady all day on a sunday. shot a 70, beat tiger by three strokes and became the first asian-born player to win a major tournament on the pga tour. first time in 15 tries, as i said, that tiger has lost. >> did you noticed tiger has lost 20 pounds and he's lost two club links. he's lost two club links. >> he has done very well. >> i'm just saying. he has lost two club links. >> we were talking about the

obesity thing. >> and here is a defense for weight. i can go without, i have not golfed in a year, i went out a couple years ago and hit a couple drives 300 yards, comes from right here, baby. not here, right here. >> you know, john daly -- >> you move that weight through and it just -- boom! >> let's go back to michael vick. first practice as a eagles' quarterback over the weekend. new contract from philly trying to earn back some of that 135 million bucks when he was jailed on dog fighting charges. during last night's interview he talked about losing the biggest contract in the nfl. >> for the cynics who will say, you know what, i don't know. michael vick might be more concerned about the fact that his career was hurt than dogs were hurt. >> i don't, i mean, football don't even matter. you know, that's --

>> lose $135 million contract doesn't matter? >> it don't matter. it don't matter. >> why not? >> because i deserve to lose it. >> he deserves to lose 135 million. baseball battle for the a.l. wildcard white sox losing to the rangers. rangers go on to win 4-3. they take a half game lead over boston in the wildcard standing. sox still 7.5 back of the yankees in the a.l. east. did you see this on saturday? check out this video. the mets david wright drilled in the helmet by a 94-mile-an-hour fastball from and he laid still on the ground for several minutes, here it is, before being taken to a hospital. that's 94 miles an hour in the head. he's got a concussion, but he's okay. placed on the 15-day disabled list. he did receive a voicemail from

caine, clearly not intentional. a new world record in the 100-meter dash. bolt, the guy who set the record in beijing. >> this guy is insane! >> going away from the pact. >> unbelievable. >> right. my guys brush their teeth like they clean their room. i'm glad anticavity

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oh, is it time in. talking about "madmen" coming back for its third season. take a little breather for a minute, we're going to show a short clip of don draper the man

who runs it all closing the deal. here he is. >> we don't want to take credit for everything, but two of every three rain coats sold last year have london fog stitched in the pocket. >> because of business has to get bigger every year. that's capitalism. >> london fog is a 40-year-old brand that sounds like its existed forever and you established with our help that it means one thing, rain coats. new products aside, there will be fat years and twlil be lean years, but it is going to rain. >> it is going to rain. >> when you said, when you said close the deal, that wasn't part of the show i was thinking about. >> but your review of the show was kind of, eh. >> i think i may have, they didn't jump, but they may have got too clever a couple times.

hollywood looks at "morning joe" to find out how they're doing. >> they did that with "sopranoes." >> it's going to be a little crazy. >> all right, move on. >> all right, i got a couple good stories about tequila and cocaine. kind of interesting. this is epcot center where families bring their children by the millions every year. well, the mexico pavilion at epcot is getting a big tequila bar. 70 varieties of tequila that you can bring the kids in, set them down and just do body shots with your loved ones. >> now, we're at the top of the hour and, of course, willie, the top news story of the day, you will see it breaking in all the wires, a lot of concern about courage. >> i need not remind you of the study put out by massachusetts

in 2007 that said 60% of the united states bills, dollar bills, $5, $10, $20 were tainted with cocaine. >> 60%? it's gotten better. >> we'll update that number for you. what does it say about what we're doing as a nation. now that same group says nine out of ten bills circulating in the united states and canada is tainted with cocaine. >> what? >> 9 out of 10. that means 90% of every bill in your wallet has cocaine on it. i don't know what it says, ron, what you have been doing with your private time. >> what about bills -- are they tainted with cocaine? >> nine out of ten. so, aapparently we're doing a lot of cocaine here in the recession time. >> willie, thank you, as always, for bringing us the news that matters most to america. we have a lot to talk about today. pete hammel, ron brownstein and

mika brzezinski and i. we'll talk about michael vick. you saw the interview last night and you thought he may have been less than kin sear. >> look, i think he's trying to regain his career and there's an opportunity for him to do something good when it comes to animals, but it's over, over pr'd. >> it's over pr'd. >> a sound bite i'll show you later of him telling a crowd to love your animals, no matter what -- it's an elephant, a snake, a dog, love it. i'm sorry, after what he did, you know he's not there yet, but he's doing it. >> we don't know. we don't know. and, also, "mad men" on last night. >> you stayed up and watched it. >> i did. >> i have to see it. plus t looks like the obama administration is moving away from the public option. >> that also in the health care debate. how much raum's --

>> he got bumped out from one white house after it didn't go well. >> look, they have, their strategy, it was early on in '93. he was political director and he moved into a different job as a senior adviser and focused more on crime and welfare in '93, '95 and conflicted with hillary clinton, among others, at that point. they have rolled the dice with an ambitious strategy this year. >> mika, let's do the news and then we'll go through the top. >> time now for a look at the top stories. in a race, the white house appears ready to concede on the so-called public option portion of its health care reform plan. on sunday, both health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius and white house press secretary robert gibbs says a government-insurance option was not essential. >> what we don't know is exactly

what the senate finance committee is likely to come up with. they have been more focused on a co-op not for profit co-op competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program and what's important is choice and competition and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those, but that is not the essential element. >> people ought to be able to have? some competitor in that market. there ought to be a choice they have. the president has thus far side would the notion that that can best be done on a public notion. >> is that a hedge? >> no, no, no. what i'm saying is that the bottom line for this for the president is what we have to have his choice in competition in the insurance market. >> joe giving in maybe but getting it done, will they? >> well, they do appear to be giving in. and, ron, you also had the chairman of the finance

committee nick baucus say it's not going to happen. >> the public option will not pass. >> in the full-scale version. >> but kathleen sebelius said is true. it has never been essential to this plan. in terms of how it works. but politically, but politically it's a very different story. from a substantive point of view, it will work without the public budget. even if you did it, you'd only be looking at 10 million or 11 million people in it by 2020. a much smaller -- >> symbolically. very critical. >> absolutely critical. how the house democrats in particular respond to this over the next few days will be interesting. important in noting as early as 2004 no democratic presidential candidate had a public plan in their health care proposal. this is a must-have very recently. >> you know what's interesting, pete hamil, you said let's hire

a million unemployed newspaper people. we throw around the term public option y will guarantee you if i could draw 100 people off the streets, mid-town manhattan, educated or not, and describe the public option to me, if you will. why is it so important and i might get 1 out of 100 people. might. we throw these terms around and the left, we've got to have the public option. the right, the public option. most americans don't have a clue what any of this means. they're, once again, just choosing their side and saying hooray. >> a lot of it is our fault. a lot of it is the media's fault. you should never use a phrase like public option or single option. the first time you mention it, we never do that. instead, it's lying there and then the average intelligent

reader of the newspaper or observer of television doesn't know what the phrases mean. so, my, what you mentioned about hiring some of these unemployed copy editors. tough, grim, you know, ferocious observers of the language to make language clear. obama talked three or four months ago about the need for plain language. we don't have it. if you have 1,000-page bill, there's no book in the history of the world that's 1,000 pages long that's any good. you know. you have to get these editors and make it explainable to the average intelligence -- >> and to members of congress, as well. so they can read it. >> les. meanwhile, tropical storm claudette made landfall on the florida panhandle this year. the first to hit the u.s. mainlands this year. ten inches of rain are expects

as far as central and southern alabama. still far from land is bill which strengthened into the first hurricane of the atlantic season today. let's go to tough talkers. what are you looking at, willie? >> look a little more michael vick on "60 minutes" last night i want to get more to mika's point about this. whether or not his remorse was convincing and whether he won anyone over last night. the first time we heard from vick since arrested on the dog-fighting charges whose details are quite grisly, actually. here's michael vick on "60 minutes" with james brown. >> that wasn't my life. that wasn't the way that things were supposed to be. and all because of the so-called coach that i thought was right and i thought it was cool and i thought it was, you know, it was fun and exciting at the time. it all led to me landing in a prison cell by myself. nobody to talk to but myself.

>> who do you blame for all of this? >> i blame me. >> so, he's talking about this kind of macho culture of dog fighting that is really, nfl has it, a lot of athletes have this. >> remember when he said go down any road in virginia, it will take you to a dog fight. culture there. >> he grew up in a culture that enjoyed that and i think that was a fair, absolutely fair, honest explanation of what he did. that i bought. what i didn't buy was the next sound bite they're going to show us. >> okay. i'll do it. take a look. >> i encourage you to love your animals, your animals or whatever, whatever animal you have whether it's a dog or cat, a reptile, you know, if it's a horse, i encourage you to love that animal dearly with all your heart. >> just tell the truth. >> hug your lizard. >> hug your reptile.

this is his pr representative doing a terrible job at helping him rehabilitate himself. >> how do you know what's in his mind? >> he doesn't feel bad yet. the first part he did. i'm just telling you my opinion of what i saw. >> isn't it possible, though, that he was shock under to this feeling. he thought people did this and when he saw the reaction and the outcry he said, wait, this is not main street behavior. we don't know what's in his heart. >> you don't. but it is one thing to say, and everybody gets a second chance after they've done their time. it's another to say that there's been this death bed conversion and that's a lot of the audience. >> up on stage to say that seemed very contrite to me. is that fair? >> he's got to pay his penance, but, you know, speaking of culture in the deep south, caulk fighting was, you could go down

any back road and find it and if somebody's done that and seen their fathers doing that and their grandfathers and great-grandfathers doing it and suddenly one day you're arrested for it and spend two years in jail and go bankrupt and lose $135 million, if the guy doesn't feel it quite yet in his heart -- >> that's fine. >> the odd thing about this is the lack of proportion about other things in our lives. >> right. >> this guy's already done a year and a half for torturing animals. people who tortured humans over the last period of time since september 11th, poor lynndie england and a couple other enlisted men have gone to jail. nobody else, nobody who designed the programs, nobody who executed them and we all know every torturer is a coward. every single one. it doesn't matter what flag they salute or what faith they

embrace going back through history torturers are cowards, none of them have gone to jail yet. none of them and michael vick has done a year and a half. now, i love dogs. i really do. i have had a dog who was a far superior creature than most of the human beings i come up against, but a sense of proportion. we have to have in this case. >> i agree with that. >> you bring up, you bring up an interrogators. i've been bringing up child molesters. a lot of people that have molested 5, 6, 7-year-old children that have spent less time in prison than michael vick. >> yes. >> and, again, the proportionality of it, i just wonder if michael vick bagged groceries at a grocery store in northern virginia, if he would -- >> that is the price you pay.

there are a lot of benefits of being a rich, famous, celebrity football player and one of the costs in all of these when you step over the line, it sometimes can be harder because the spotlight, the spotlight is there and they're more reluctant to cut you a break. and in this behavior, it didn't seem to justify cutting a break to begin with. >> no, the behavior was horrific. >> i agree on your position in terms of specific and analyzing the media side of this and looking on what happened on "60 minutes" last night i didn't get anything more than what i expected of being a cliche version of someone trying to rehabilitate themselves. >> a lot of athletes, a lot of public figures and public figures that do horrific things and say, i'm sorry, i made a mistake. they will always add a phrase in there, whether it was mistakes were made or, you know, this is all my fault. of course, people around me will push me. michael vick could have very easily said i had the big house,

all my friends came over to the big house. you know, but he didn't do that. the thing i appreciated about last night he said, my fault. my mistake. i deserved everything i got. my fault. and you say, yeah, that's just pr, but, yet, it seems like everybody that goes through this sort of situation will always find a reason to blame somebody else. that's one thing. let's credit him last night. he did not go there. >> i appreciated the parts of the interviews that really seemed like him and those were some of them. i actually, what i'm criticizing is his pr points. his pr team let him down. there was nothing he didn't predict. they could have -- i don't know. >> one last thing, not just people who tortured people in prisons around the world, there are people playing in the nfl right now if you look for example at the cincinnati bengals roster who did worst

things to people. just a little perspective. >> you're absolutely right, willie. ron brownstein, thank you for coming in today. >> we'll see you, like ali, he can recapture the crown the third time when we return. we have howard dean, he's going to be with us and dr. nancy sniderman and the "new yorker magazine" but first live to phoenix where president obama makes his next stop on the health care swing and we'll check in with chuck todd and see what the white house is saying about the public option being thrown over the cliff. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. when i was seventeen summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look

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>> all i am saying, though, is the public option whether we have it or not have it is not the entirety of health care

reform. this is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it. >> look, the fact of the matter is, there are not the votes in the united states senate for the public option. there never have been. so, to continue to chase that rabbit, i think is just a wasted effort. >> all right, with us now nbc news chuck todd. chuck, how big of news is it that we have been hearing this weekend about the white house backing away from the public option? >> well, you know, it's a big news in that all of a sudden people are noticing, but if you've watched the administration's body language and you've listened to the coins, very carefully when the president had been asked about public option versus co-op and that press briefing when we push him on it, when you listen to their language over the last couple months, this shouldn't be a surprise. it has been leading up to this. they have always been very coy

that they want choice in competition, they believe a public option is the best way to go. now, they stop being coy. when the president said whether it's in there or not and him saying that and then having kathleen sebelius go on the shows yesterday and not back off from it and, instead, sort of reinforce what the president said, it's pretty clear that, you know, they've decided that that was always going to be something they were willing. they're negotiators. the president likes to be a compromiser and he wanted something in his back pocket that he would feel comfortable with pushing, pushing, pushing, i'll give up that and still want all that. >> is that a problem, joe? >> i've heard from a bunch of congressional democrats, house democrats, thanks mr. president. and we're getting pounded on this question. government-run health care. government-run health care. he goes to his town hall and backs off, so, some of them feel a little unprotected this

morning. >> btu, to use the term from 1993. chuck, i remember when we conservatives took over, we wanted, we wanted it all and one of the big problems was not for the middle of america, but the base. explaining to the base, you're not going to get everything you want and we could always see it coming and it was almost like our leadership was preparing us, you're not going to get what you want, but it was like this slow role. is that, in effect, what the white house has been doing? trying to gently break it to their base, who is going to be very angry about this. you're not going to get a public option. >> i think so. you know, it's almost as if the weekend, whether they meant it to be a trial balloon or not, it's going to be. and watch the next week and lefty blogosphere, you will have howard dean on and let's hear

his tone, his language and, you know, how unacceptable will this really be? will there be a revolt on the left? will you see angry liberals the way we've seen? in some cases during the republicans were in power, some angry conservatives, but at the end of the day, you know, they close their eyes and they voted for, for instance, prescription drug benefits when a bunch of them didn't want to do it. they voted for no child left behind when a bunch of them didn't want to do it. just one of those things, will they just sort of grin and bear it and president go to them and say, look, you're getting 80% of what you want. you're not getting this. there's always a next time. you never say never, et cetera, or will this be, hey, you know what, enough. i didn't like the way you watered down stimulus and now you're watering down this. >> mika? >> it looks like some of the public option will become an option which means it's away and i think we should start talking

right away about this co-op that senator conrad from north dakota is talking about, which is sort of a, you know, it's owned by the citizens. you know, you pay into the plan and then the people own it. >> it's run by the citizens, but run by the government, right? >> it's sort of having your cake and eating it, too. i don't think liberals will get really bent out of shape about this. but, overall, people are going to want something to happen, some kind of reform and liberals and democrats will go alone on this. but the co-op thing to me as this comes out of the senate committee very interesting because if it fails then it becomes government-owned anyway. it's kind of this hybrid and interesting to see how this plays out. it will be a tough sell, i think. >> is that the fall back position now? the co-op. is that what we'll talk about now for the next several weeks?

>> i'll tell you, explain it in 800 words yet alone in a 30-second sound bite is very difficult. you hear comparisons, kind of like the way a lot of co-ops work and kind of like blue cross/blue shield which is sort of a nonprofit co-op. i tell you, it's kind of like something we never had before. when they figure out how to do it and it all goes to this other aspect of health care that i don't think we folks and pay enough attention to. after the president signs something, how it's implemented is going to be a huge fight. >> that's the key. >> who's in charge of that. who runs this co-op? who does it report to? what is the integ taw that regulates it? it is going to be government influence and we'll have some government seed money, but it's supposed to not be taxpayer dollars that have to continue to throw into it. quite frankly, i don't think ken

conrad fully, he knows what it is, not everybody else in that gang of six inside the senate finance committee i think has their arms around it. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. >> we'll read updates from you throughout the day at firstread@msnbc.com. pete hamil will be the first to tell you that co-ops can get pretty ugly sometimes. >> if you want to see mankind at its worst, go to co-opmeetings. the only thing worse, condo meetings. >> same idea. >> you have an apartment building. >> same idea? >> bloodshed. >> or trying to get into a new york city cool. >> you get online when you're 2. >> no negative 2. >> we have former dnc chairman howard dean. or as mika likes to call him, oh, howard. - ( rock music playing ) - ♪ oh!

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if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. nobody is going to force you to leave your health care plan. if you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor. i don't want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care, but the point is, i don't want insurance company

bureaucrats meddling in your health care plan either. >> just politically, forget what he said, politically that is a great line. and that's the message you've got to get out there. you keep your doctor. you get to keep your doctor. >> don't be afraid. >> if you want to, you get to keep your insurance company. you know what, but watch out for those big, bad insurance companies. you don't like them. and that is, that is a winning political message whether idelogically it works for people or not. he wrote an op-ed in the "new york times that was concise and really clear. >> we have it and we'll play it or read it for our next guest. here with us former democratic governor from new hampshire and now cnbc contributor howard dean. author of "howard dean prescription for real health reform." thank you very much for joining us, dr. dean. >> thank you for having me on. >> first of all, how do you think the president is doing?

over the weekend he has been selling the plan, trying to elate fears, is he getting the message out there and beating back the critics? >> i think he is doing that. i think you've seen a lot of the really crazy stuff, the so-called death penalty and euthanasia and all that whacky stuff is starting to disappear. he is getting his message out and the best salesman for this plan is barack obama, no question about it. >> you say it's starting to disappear. yesterday in the "los angeles times" newt gingrich actually defended talk and said sarah palin was right that president obama's talking about rationing and this is really scary stuff. >> yeah, but, you know, newt is playing the political game. he's still thinking about running for president. chuck grassley voted for this. this is existing law. this is what they call the death penalty. >> the same chuck grassley that last weekend in iowa said that the government might pull the

plug on granny and that voters in iowa had something to fear. that chuck grasly actually voted for this? i'm confused. explain it to me like i'm a fourth grader. >> sure. in 2003 there was a medicare revamp, a big change around some things in medicare and this was put in the bill and chuck grassley voted for it. what it said, of course, it is not a death panel at all. what it is, it allows older people to get end of life counseling and have medicare pay for it. this has nuthing to do with death panels and all this nonsense and garbage. chuck grassley voted to put that in the medicare bill in 2003. >> it is amazing, it is amazing how counseling people at the end of life, counseling people has been spun into what it is spun into. let me ask you something, governor dean. if you were senator dean from vermont and the president tried to pass a health care bill that didn't have a public option in it, like this one that's going to be on the floor of the senate

at some point, would you vote for a bill on health care reform without a public option? >> i wouldn't vote for a final bill without a public option under any circumstances because i don't think we ought to dump $60 billion into the health insurance industry, which is what this bill should do. what is going on here is nothing more than politics. you are not going to have health care reform without a public option and he also knows he has to get this out of the senate and he has a very important member of the finance committee that didn't want to vote for this bill that has a public option in it. he knows he will not get any republican votes at the end of the day. it has to be written by democrats and you only need a few democrats to take out the public option. >> let me explain to people what you're saying really quickly because i know people are confused. what you're saying is the house is going to pass a version with the public option and the senate will pass the version without a public option and you get past the 60 votes and you go to

reconciliation and you put the public option back in and then you vote on it you only need 50 votes and you get public option, is that what you're saying? >> basically, yes. because if you don't, you're not going to get any republican votes no matter what. really no reason to deal with the republicans. the blue dogs are the key here. the blue dogs were very helpful in the house. you need some conservative and moderate input into this bill because it will cover the whole country and you need some of the country's moderate and conservative. the blue dogs have played a great role. they made the house bill much better. they made it much better for small businesses. you don't have any responsibility for your health care any more. that is a big deal. a lot of stuf going on that is never getting reported in the paper or doesn't get a lot of ink. you know, you've been through this process, joe, you know how it works. >> governor, that's a complicated political strategy. >> it's very complicated as to why you're getting all this talk. why the message has to be so simple in august. >> is it going to work, first of all, is the congressman and

senator going to buy this and see what's going on, obviously. you see what's going on. >> i think what's most likely to happen, honestly, the republicans are going to continue as they have made very clear to obstruct the bill. october 16th is going to come along and that's when reconc reconciliation is going to kick in and they have to write this question in the budget. >> as you may know, i have my finger on the pulse with the kids. >> he really does. >> high tech. they're telling me that there's a new iphone app that i can read howard dean prescription for health care. >> i do that, by the way, when i'm driving around manhattan -- >> at a high speed. >> why is it so revolutionary? >> dr. dean? >> is it not? you're changing the way america reads. >> the great thing about it, not only can you read the book on iphone, but you can get it

cheaper on iphone, too, but it also, you can also use the same app to call your congressman and sign petitions in favor of health care and so forth and so on. it's pretty cool. it's really pretty fun. >> i want to bottom line this one for you. i think this is the important thing because a lot of people on the left this morning feeling betrayed. you would not vote for a final health care bill if it didn't have a public option in it? >> absolutely not because it's not health care reform. it's just wasting $60 billion of our taxpayer's dollars every year. i think we will have a public option at the end. >> fascinating, as always. governor dean, dr. dean, chairman dean, thank you. isn't that something. >> thank you. >> take care. >> that's fascinating. political deansmanship, right? >> whatever worked. and then the president, yeah, the president felt it without the health care, without the public option and nancy pelosi

futs back in and he ends up signing the bill. so they get what they want. >> coming up, we'll continue the conversation with dr. nancy snyderman but first michael vick speaks out. a live report from the eagles training facility when we come right back on "morning joe." achoo! (announcer) what are you going to miss when you have an allergy attack? achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst mptoms. and works when you need it most. benadryl. you can't pause life.

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you know, same feeling i'm feeling right now is what people are feeling. >> the feeling you're feeling right now? >> disgust. >> is this you

relation. >> that was him "60 minutes" last night. his first interview since serving 18 months in a federal prison for dog fighting. ron allen with the very latest on michael vick's return. what was your reaction in philadelphia to last night's interview? >> i think reaction to the signing of vick last week was pretty split. the fans are torn and if it skews one way or another based on talk radio and on newspapers and radios, it is slightly negative against the eagles signing him. of course, the crime that he committed and the other part of it is that the eagles are a championship team and they have an established quarterback in donovan mcnabb and a lot of fans

don't understand why the eagles need michael vick. he brings a new dimension to their offense and help them win, perhaps. he's been out of football for a couple years, but the risk reward, some people don't quite see it and this is an unfold process that is just beginning and there are some animal rights organizations that they'll put billboard along the road leading up to the eagles stadium and some protests going on online and also online you can buy michael vick's jerseys for $245. it's cutting a lot of ways. again, this is the beginning of a long process. a lot of baggage the eagles have to carry with them throughout the season. >> we had joe gibbs on and he was surprised vick went to philadelphia when they already have a quarterback. ron allen, thanks so much. >> at least the philadelphia fans are some of the more gentle fans in america. you know, fans that boo santa cla claus. santa claus. >> he's in a place where he's going to be sabaged.

>> until donovan mcnabb fumbles the first two or three weeks. vick goes out and he alludes three dallas cowboys and flicks it 60 yards and suddenly michael vick, always the most popular guy. >> the back-up quarterback. >> exactly, exactly. >> willie will tell you everywhere we go. >> is he insulting me? >> i am sure it is some kind of insult. >> wherever we go. i was out last night eating dinner with my family and a guy calls me across the restaurant in new york and he goes, hey, joe, big fan! my family walks over there and i'm like edging my wife and we get over there and he said to me, of course, i'm a much bigger -- >> put her in coach. >> and i say story of my life.

>> all right, fine. >> is it not? >> i got an e-mail from a prominent journalist on friday, an e-mail to a prominent event. look forward to mika. >> i know. by the way, speaking of which, mika is throwing out first pitch for the dodgers. >> mika, mika, mika, this is like the brady bunch over here. >> she is throwing out the first pitch of the red sox game, first game of september. >> a whole jealousy thing you guys got. >> you guys are mocking me. up next -- >> what is good for me is good for "morning joe." . up next, dr. nancy snyderman. >> embarrass me in front of my children. >> i know you're mocking me. i'll figure out what you're doing at some point. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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that's what we do on "morning joe" our mind just wanders along because we have three hours and we actually let people talk and their minds wander, too. welcome back to "morning joe." actually, joe is just wandering, too. >> mind is wandering, body is wandering. >> he's praying.

they put you in. >> come on, grandpa, get back into your seat. it's okay, i'll get your meds. >> we need to talk to mike, by the way. we need to track him down. >> is your mind wandering? >> i'm going back to things about what howard dean said. >> i can't wait to to hear what dr. nancy snyderman has to say about that. and did you see the howard dean segment? >> i did. here's what i love about howard. he really puts on his doctor hat and cuts through this that is why this is important and then puts on his congressional hat and says this is why the players line-up and this is the chess game and always how he breaks down medicine into the chess game. he sees the end result in the way that i don't necessarily see. >> do you agree with howard dean that health care reform bill without an option is not health care at all? >> yes. >> why? >> because we've got, we've got derailed about all about access

and spending more money and sort of balancing the budget, the health care budget. two things i think we forgot to talk about and that is, not just people who don't have any insurance, but the insurance, but the under insured. if you need a snap shop of what those people look like, look at the forum in california over the last few days. and in virginia outside of washington, d.c., these are american citizens who hold jobs who are paying their taxes who are lining up for free health care because they don't have it. it's not about the government overtaking things, it's about access to something. so here is what i think the white house could have done, and we would be looking at a different argument. what if you said, for all of you here who have insurance, you are fine, but for people who lost theirs or don't have anything,

why not be able to buy into something like medicare. let's say you have the $100 version, you have the $1,000 version, it's not the same, but something is better than nothing. that's not the conversation we have had. i think the co-ops that we have had, that's -- the scaleability to a national co-op system, i think that's important. >> there is something that i don't understand has a conservative, we hear we need the public option to get the government into it, because we need more competition. gibbs said this weekend people ought to have some other -- some competitor in that market, a

choice. there are over 1,000 health care people in the market. as you and i both know, capitalism is beautiful. what does that mean? if there is a cheaper way to do it, there will be somebody that figures that out so they can beat the big boys. when people say we need more competition, and i think actually this is not more competition, this is setting up a different approach that will actually come in under what the free market could provide, which, by the way, would by my way of thinking, covert the free market systems that run the industry. >> you have to look at the system, joe, and ask yourself if it's working? and it's no. and that's number one. and there is a role for government, we know that, in various parts of the economy. if the private sector is not

taking care of business -- >> all i am focusing on here is the word competition. this is not about competition, this is about changing the rules ex saying we are not going to have competition in the free marketplace, we will set up this new system. >> i will tell you having the government being a competitive factor is a oxymoron. >> let's say the government will provide at a lower cost a service for those that can't enter the higher, more competitive market. >> and everybody will take that? >> no, they don't. and here is why not, because great health care will be a recruiting tool and reward people in the marketplace. if there are two people vying for your services and one has a government plan and one has

something else, the capitalism -- it will always win out. and the other thing i think we are saddled with is how much money it's going to cost us, instead of talking about investing in the american public. if we are not healthy, we cannot be a global power. why not talk about a global investment. frankly now, we have trillion fatigue. it's too bad the health care reform came at the end of the trillion fatigue. >> well, i don't know if you saw the article on the back tax? >> i talked to the people -- i was in aspen ex saw this coming. >> they don't hire smokers, and they want to have the concept of not hiring obese people. what do you think? >> it's there and will continue to happen, and it will happen quietly so they do not get sued. it's the new anti-smoking move

in the country. nobody wants to talk about that. >> when they are going after tobacco 10 years ago -- >> we'll be right back. does your mouthwash work in six different ways? introducing listerine total care. everything you need... to strengthen teeth, help prevent cavities, and kill germs. introducing 6 in 1 listerine total care. the most complete mouthwash.

welcome back to "morning joe." it's coming up to the top of the hour. let's start a live shot in los angeles a shot of comment at lax. now the gateway to the west, st. louis. a beautiful shot of the arch. keep going east to washington, d.c. >> they are waking up there. >> a picture of the swamp as the camera moves.

and then boston. beautiful boston in the morning. >> you know why i love boston? >> because i love the restaurants. >> and the new york yankees lost yesterday. by the way, willie geist, a big weekend for you. the english premier league started up. >> i was holed up in my favorite soccer theater, watching games -- >> yeah, in a lazyboy. >> liverpool started with a big loss. apparently, if you are against liverpool, you can use your hands. you have no idea what i am referring to, but that's it. the president is still pushing the health care plan this weekend. we appeared to get a retreat from democrats on the public

option plan. michael vick, "60 minutes." quite an opening for "mad men." nobody watched it but me. >> well, don't tell everybody what happened, because people tivo it. we'll talk about michael vick after the news. it's not that i was not convinced. >> and also howard dean. >> that was interesting. >> that was a bob and weave, and he said they will pass a co-op out of the senate and then in reconciliation, they will go back to the public option. let's get to the top stories. to regain control of the health care debate, the white house appears ready to concede on the so-called public option portion of the health care reform plan. on sunday both health and human services secretary and robert

gibbs said a public insurance option was not a potential. >> what we don't know is what the finance senate committee is likely to come up with. they have been more focused on a co-op, not-for-profit co-op as a competitive as compared to a straight-run government program. i am convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those. that's not the essential element. >> people ought to be able to have some competitor in that market. there ought to be a choice that they have. the president has, thus far, sided with the notion that can be best be done through a public option. >> is that a hedge? >> no, no, no. what i am saying is the bottom line for this, for the president is, what we have to have is choice in the competition in the insurance market. >> howard dean said health care reform without public option is

not health care reform, and dr. nancy snyderman said the same thing. do you agree the public option cannot be dropped, and if it's dropped the health care reform is meaningless? >> i think it will be meaningful if the public option is dropped. >> you are fine with -- >> no, i am not fine with it. if you get a big plan without the public option, you are still getting a lot that we waited a long time for, covering tens of millions of more people, not having the insurance be portable. it's a heck of an improvement, even without that. everybody is playing like they have their hands on the guns and ready to draw, and threatening to raise havoc if they don't get their way, but in the end, half a loaf is something that you can eat. >> so you come to the side of?

>> well, if i were a member of congress, i would say i am not voting unless it has a public option. >> the center always holds. when we were there on the right in the 1990s, they tried to pull america to the right, and some are trying to pull america left of center, and in the end the center holds. >> yeah, it holds everywhere, joe. it holds in europe, and most places. here we are stuck with the center in a sense. that's the difference. wouldn't it be better if you guys had gotten your way under reagan and we got our way under obama, and then the voters -- >> i am a james madison fan.

republica republicans hated bill clinton, and then if you get beyond the fighting, you think, wow, we did a lot of great things together. >> well, i am a james madison fan, too. and he said we won't have the bigger, meaningful constitution unless the state gets more senators. when that deal fell through and he had to accept two senators per state, he was heart broken. >> but it was a compromise. even as we were setting up the country, the center -- >> well, yeah, i guess. it was a compromise that was delaware and rhode island saying, you know, we are out of here unless you do this. >> and it has worked. >> well, somewhat of a compromise. claudette weakened to a

tropical depression. after making landfall in florida earlier today, claudette is expected to bring six inches of rain. and southwestern georgia getting up to 10 inches of rain. still far from land is bill, which strengthened into the first hurricane of the atlantic season today. across california, fire crews and hundreds of families are keeping close watch on wildfires being fanned by hot temperatures and dry winds. 11 fires have been burning across the state. in russia, investigators are looking into a deadly fighter jet collision during practice for the country's annual airshow. one pilot died, and the other broke his spine, and five others on the ground also hurt when one of the planes crashed into a residential building. milwaukee mayor has been hospitalized but in stable condition this morning after a man attacked him with a metal

pipe. the mayor tried to help a grandmother caught in the middle of the domestic dispute, and the suspect fled the scene but was later arrested. and cocaine is found on 90% of u.s. money in the united states. >> i will tell you, the highest percentage upwards to 99%, that's the upper west side street, where willie geist lives. >> yeah, i live close by there. it's a combination. >> yeah, it's all over the money. joe had a big bowl of money that he was sniffing -- that's weird. all right. with us now, as we have seen saying, political writer for "the new yorker," and we are talking about how to recover from the economic crisis.

what a horrible time to be a governor, anywhere? >> yeah, pretty much. what is going on in california is really amazing and hopeful. this idea of having a constitutional convention. the idea is to have a constitutional convention made up of people drawn from the

general public, like a jury. and then they will sit there and spend months and months studying the issues, and they come up with a constitution, and that would be voted up or down. they could build this thing back up from scratch. >> california, of course, they had initiatives for years that are just a nightmare. >> yeah, they are. ex that's what has gotten them in so much trouble, because so much of the budget is determined ahead of time by the initiatives and taxes and everything else. this way they can use the initiatives to get around that. >> yeah, not just california, but all the way to new york. >> absolutely. try to be governor of the state of new york. >> no. >> after six of the most hilariously grotesque weeks in the history of the state legislature, and then try to do something about getting things happening here, getting our

share of stimulus money, and getting things that come into the state to get something concrete done that you can see and look at. and it's not. it's not happening. it's still the old-fashioned, creeky conflicts between republicans and democrats, and where is mine, basically. and where is mine is paralyzing the place. >> michael vick yesterday on "60 minutes." >> yeah, michael vick talking for the first time since he was arrested, i guess, over two years now on the dogfighting charges. he did what i expected him to do. i don't know what the alternative would be. he said he was going to move forward and he did all the right things. he did fine. not overwhelming, but he did what he had to do. here is a little bit of michael vick last night.

>> the first day i walked into prison and they slammed that door, i knew the magnitude of the decisions that i made and the poor judgment and what i allowed to happen to the animals. you know, no way of explaining the hurt and guilt that i felt. that was the reason i cried so many nights. that put it all in perspective. >> what was the perspective, mika? >> i like the part where he took complete responsibility. >> he said he loves animals, and that was moving to me. >> that part i was not buying. and i thought the people propping him up, because that's pr 101 from 20 years ago -- >> why do you hate animals? >> no, here is a man that hates animals, trying to convince a crowd he loves them. >> i encourage you to love

animals, your animals -- whatever animal you have, a dog or cat, a horse, and i encourage you to love the animal dearly with all of your heart. >> thank god they edited there, because that just really is not what the pr team would have wanted. >> yeah, media wise, and also, come on get real wise, because first of all i thought the reporter did a great job, i love him. it was everything that we expected, though. i am sorry. love animals. it was predictable inaction. did you get anything new? did you feel like, wow, this guy is going to take advantage of an opportunity life has given him and will do something essential that will change our communities?

no, he is just trying to get back on track. >> how do you know that? >> please. love your reptiles! >> i was too busy eating sausage. >> it's not like he looted a hedge fund or something. >> yeah, right, and took everybody's life. so send him to jail. >> yeah, he did not ruin hundreds of families or lives, or perhaps abused a child and served months for it. >> speaking of pr, let's look at some polls "usa today" put out.

i think one of the problems with the stimulus bill is that any genuine stimulus is going to take some time. it's not like the blueprints were all waiting there to rebuild the 59th street bridge. they are not there. you have to have the plans in hand. but the stimulus seems -- from everything that i hear from people that know more than i do about it, it's beginning to kick in. the stock market is sort of stabilized or rising slowly, as a result in some cases from stimulus. so i think the way to judge stimulus is next year.

franklin roosevelt did not get it going until 1935, and then japan rescued the new deal in 1941. >> yeah, by attacking pearl harbor. why is it -- obviously "usa today" is still polling on the stimulus package. it's a cloud hanging over the health care debate. how does president obama get around -- >> if you can call it a health care debate. i would not call it a debate. i would call it a propaganda campaign on both sides, although much more on the anti-reform side. what do the polls measure? they don't measure -- if the polls were accompanied by a series of questions asking people to see how well-informed they are on what the realities are of the plan and the alternatives are, then i might be interested in the polls. >> if you and i walked outside and interviewed the first 100

people we met in midtown manhattan, and described what the public option is, i think a couple out of the 100 could do it, what do you think? >> yeah, i think what is being supported -- >> people are just choosing sides, right. mindlessly choosing sides. >> yeah, that's it. and supposedly, we should have government, so the people could say at the election, as they did say, we would like to have some kind of universal health care program. i don't want my health insurance taken away because of a preexisting condition. you guys are representatives, and you guys take care of the details. ex then afterwards, you have what is going on, the so-called debate, where one or two details are picked out, and hysteria is built-up over them.

>> yeah, and distorted. >> yeah, and it's not like the way a bill becomes a law is that when it comes to a vote you look at the public opinion polls and see where it is, and that's how the bill is enacted. no, the house and the senate vote on the bill. not the public. >> it seems to me, and this is distracting, but it has happened for 25 years now, pete, i hear every day from people, mika, all of us do, there are basically two counts on both extremes. there is the obama is a nazi or communist, and then on the other extreme, obama is a god. if you try to talk reason to either side, then you are immediately lumped in as evil on the right or on the left. it's distressing. >> well, i think -- well, that's a culmination of 25 years of our politics, the turning of politics into a cartoon version

of politics. so you see -- for example, for right wingers in america to start calling people nazis, without admitting that nazis were right wingers, not left wingers. they were right wingers. >> we'll be right back. thritis . in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever.

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♪ if it were up to me, i would band drivers from texting immediately. but we have learned from our efforts to get people to get seat belts and to persuade people not to drink and drive, laws are not always enough. often you need to combine education with enforcement to get results. >> all right. >> welcome back.

i cannot wait -- don't text while hosting. >> willie, you were not comparing -- just for the record, you were not comparing conservatives with -- >> no, you need conservatives. these are not guys that read ed berkman, but they are cartoon versions of the right, instead of people -- >> we are not comparing the crazier people with -- >> well, no, the three words of the 20th century, were hit list, walter o'malley -- >> walter o'malley? who was worse, o'malley, who took the --

>> can i think about that? >> with us right now, the author of traffic, why we drive the way we do. it's now out in paperback. tom, you say that we are actually much worse drivers than we think we are? >> go figure, huh? driving, you go out for a drive and come back home -- >> i get a lot of feedback from my husband. i don't need feedback. >> you drive like you are drunk. >> a good point, people that have passengers in the car, tend to be better drivers typically. and you come back, and nobody is there to tell you how you did when it's just you and the machine. and so we sometimes feel like we can get away with something like talking on the phone and texting. we get home safely and think no problem. >> you say we are lousy drivers, and you say that says something about us? >> well, it's over confidence.

if you look at the recent financial crisis that largely involved men, if we can generalize, the people that made the most trades were the most confident, and i think we can see that as a metaphor for driving. >> wow. okay. >> if i can interject, and men are moreover confident drivers, and they are less likely to get in a crash. >> i can't believe that, no, not men. >> you cut one off, and we are waving guns. >> yeah, road rage. let's go over some of these. half of all u.s. fatalities happen at speeds of less than 35 miles per hour. that's surprising. more new yorkers are killed legally crossing in crosswalks than j walking.

explain the 35 miles per hour and under fatalities. that's surprising. why? >> indeed, people who are belted. you should wear your seat belt. speed is a factor of all crashes. little differences can make a huge difference you can hit. it's a nonlinear effect here. if you are going 20, that pedestrian has a good chance of surviving if you hit them. if you jump up to 30, your chances are radically reduced. if you are going 45, forget it. >> i think the biggest problem we will face on our roadways is texting while driving. i think it's far more dangerous than talk on a cell phone, and there should probably be laws against it, if there are not already. >> this is not a new thing. albert einstein said anybody

that can drive and give a girl a kiss is not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. and texting, you are right, you are not fataking your eyes off e road, but it's not a safe text. >> everybody thinks it's terrible, but everybody does it. >> yeah, for sure, it's incredibly tempting. i will admit it, and i feel i have to put the phone in the backseat, and i know i will say i won't do it, and then i will think of something at a red light that i want to tell somebody to get going on, whatev whatever, launch a story. >> okay. here is another tip. that's actually -- i know the one wreck that i had, i just looked down coming back from the beach when i was 18 years old,

and was just changing the channel, and the traffic stopped suddenly and boom, i hit the back of a car. that's the number one no no, right? >> yeah, distractions. eyes off of the road. >> well, number one, willie, shooting heroin while driving. >> when i was changing the channel when i was 16, i needed a better song. and they cannot chart out on a highway how long it's going to take to stop. this is not taught in driver's education. can you go to the advance drivers school, and they do these exercises. >> yeah, a distracted driving summit in september. we need laws. >> well, i can tell you, america is a lot safer right now, because my family and i are spending most of our time up in new york, and i am not behind

the wheel. >> joe, here, as you know, as anybody that lives here, the most dangerous drivers are bicycle riders. >> i like driving in new york, because everybody thinks it's madness and insanity. there is a method. it's like a river going. the tab drivers know exactly what they are doing. >> everybody knows the rules, of which there are none. >> exactly. ifr >> thank you so much. an important book to read. >> i need to study it closely. >> erin burnett is coming up next on "morning joe."

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let's get a check of business before the bell with cnbc's superstar, erin burnett. what are you looking at today? >> it's bad down here, joe. >> why? >> because it smells bad. we are going to open up sharp. >> we are talking about the market, though. >> oh, all i did was es i insta it. we learned consumers are not feeling good about anything, jobs or income growth.

the market shrugs that off. it's pretty significant. the cash for clunkers advertisement, and things are getting better talk, and you would think that would be a good reading in the concession among consumers, but absolutely not. >> didn't you report on walmart's earnings, they were flat. >> yeah, and people celebrated they were better than expected, but people are not -- well, everybody is trading down. we are still seeing that. the thing is, on the u.s. on friday, we did have the first down week in a month, and it did not have a dramatic impact, but overseas it did. and the world second largest economy actually posted a 3.7%

growth in its economy. now for japan that is great. they have not grown in many years. >> germany, they had a great report. >> yeah, at least for the quarter. the focus now, we are going to open sharply lower on the back of what happened in asia. they reacted to us. we will see what happens in the market here. obviously a lot of people on vacation. what that means is volume may be light. when volume is light a little bit of action can move the market a lot of the way. can you see a rather sharp drop without much. but keep in mind, the consumer data is important. the other thing to keep in mind, and i know you have been talking about it on the front page of "the journal," and a full government plan is what the market was looking for. final story, and i know the music is playing, and did you

hear about the cupcake, two million calories, and it was the biggest cupcake ever. 1,224 pounds. >> that's a cupcake. >> haines can take in those calories and not blink an eye. >> all right. always great talking to you. coming up next, we will talk more about michael vick with stefen a. smith, and dave zirin. when we return, we answer the age-old question, blackberry or iphone? floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride.

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the feeling i am feeling right now is what the people

were feeling? >> and the feeling is? >> disgust. >> is this you talking, or the team of attorneys and the image shapers and the like? >> this is mike vick. people will see my work out there, my work in the communities and my work with the humane society, and how i really do care now. how i care about animals. >> that was michael vick last night on "60 minutes," his first interview since serving for dogfighting. let's discuss the return of vick with our guests. thank you for being with us. steven, i will start with you since you woke up so early for us. you work out there and know the town well. how is michael vick going to be perceived and received? >> well, tough, initially,

because there are a lot of people in philadelphia that do not believe he should be given a second chance. at the end of the day, this is philadelphia we are talking about. as long as that man scores such towns and doesn't break the law while doing so they will get along. >> people made up their minds about michael vick will not be sue swayed by an interview. what did you see? >> a man that spent 23 months in prison craving for a second chance. that's what makes this so much more than a sports story. have you a country that has 2.3 million people behind bars, and now the most famous ex-felon in the country trying and pleading and begging for the chance. will the people of philadelphia

give it to him? that's an open question. >> all of this strikes me as a bit strange. all the women and girlfriends that have been beaten up by nfl players, i have not seen so much hang ringing about a bunch of dogs, but what is it about michael vick and this case that gets people going like this? >> a lot of animal rights activist and animal lovers that are adamant that he should be -- some of them wanted him to serve more time. i was on "the ed show," and a person from peta was telling me he needs to undergo an examination before he is let back. i thought that was over the line. and then you have a lot of people, particularly throws within the african community

that strongly believe -- i am one of those people, where he spent 18 months in the penitentiary. be quiet and let the man alone. >> you remember the program that showed the side of the nfl that was so truthful that the nfl forced espn to take it off. i want to follow-up with what andy says, and women are so abused -- not just in the nfl, but where is the outrage there? >> yeah, outrage, and the guys are always let back in the door. in this case, you have animals, they are seen as defenseless, not that the women were defenseless, but the animals don't want to be thrown in the middle of a animal fighting ring. >> sometimes peta acts like i am

at home eating french poodle fajitas or something. let me be clear. i love dogs, and i love pets, but this is a case -- this is a very simple case. the man paid his debt to society. what are we going to say. how many stations of the cross are we saying he has to go through before we say, you know, give the man a second chance. that's what makes this more than a sports story, it's about how we treat ex-prisoners. >> yeah, what was interesting to me out of the "60 minutes" piece last night, was a look into his background and where he grew up. he was not the only one doing this out of some evil threat in his mind, it's a culture. >> i grew up in the deep south, and there are a lot of white people in the deep south that grew up over the past 100 years

with cock fighting. >> right. >> you always heard the guy from the humane society talk about something this is something prevalent in the white community and hispanic community, as well as african-american. it's not an ethnic thing. one thing that turned me off is michael vick looked into the camera and said $135 million, losing that doesn't mean anything, or football doesn't mean anything. >> yeah, that would mean something to me. > >> yeah, that would mean something to me. "the new york times" telling

grandma no. maybe republicans can impose more sleeping reforms tomorrow. that's the play book that brownback and others have in mind. first, save medicare from obama and then from itself, and for now the strategy means the country has two medical parti parties -- >> in 1995, we republicans were outraged, and we had a good reason. i remember newt gingrich saying it was the low point and the only way they survived was by scaring the most elderly among us. now we have newt gingrich talking about death panels. are both parties guilty of that? >> i think there is no question about that. the rhetoric has got to calm

down. i just want to tune out if it's a debate where people just turn off. >> scare the seniors. that's been the game for a very long time. let's give bush credit in 2004, and whether people like the idea or not, he tried to tackle social security reform, and there was not any discussion or debate, it was just george bush wants to take away your social security. i remember my first campaign, before i was in office, 1994, the democrats did robo calls in my district saying joe scarborough wants to outlaw social security or medicare in our area. >> yeah, the same people holding up the signs about socialism and medicare signs like this, they

are not signing it off saying i don't want your socialists money when i am old, and neither does grandma. what they are doing is some kind of incoherent anger against the whole notion of doing something for somebody who is poorer or weaker or more screwed up than they are. >> and here is the challenge, everybody -- i have bad news. i am not supporting death panels, as stephen colbert accused me of doing, but here is the bottom line. we have a ticking demographic time bomb. health care costs are going up, not because we take too much care of our children, but because we spend a disproportionate amount of health care dollars in the last year of life. we are going to have to face that in the next decade. we have no choice.

>> and we need to confront obesity. >> that's just the most random comment regarding the cost of exploding health care at the end of life. >> no, you are saying that y you -- >> i am not talking about what you eat. >> old people and fat people are what we are talking about. >> well, this is making it more difficult, the death panel conversation is making it tougher for america to have to facedown. >> we need to talk about living wills and what happens at the end of life, and when it becomes a political hot potato, it becomes worse. >> yeah, a ridiculous hot potato, where it's taken out of context. >> yeah, i think we spent 25% of the health care dollars, maybe 1/3 on the final days of life, and when the baby boomers get

older, it's going up. >> what do you want to do with them? older people. >> no, i want to have a real discussion. >> exactly. >> that's all i want. it's not about ideology -- >> we'll be back with more. stay with us. achoo! (announcer) what are you going to miss when you have an allergy attack? achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst mptoms. and works when you need it most. benadryl. you can't pause life. i don't know anything about computers and my daughter is going to college, so she needs one. - can you help me? - ( shouting ) - yes, you. - our line of next class laptops are perfect for college, and they start at just $650. are those good? 'cause i don't want to get her something - that she thinks is totally lame. - no, they're awesome. and they come with pre-loaded software so she won't have to do a thing. - great. she's good at that. - ( blue shirts laugh )

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welcome back to "morning joe." now is the time on the show where we talk about what we learned? >> i want to know the answer. it's what we learned today, andy. >> well, you have to have both. this one for e-mail and that one -- >> that's not a good answer. >> my daughter went from that back to that, though, which is interesting. my daughter went to the blackberry. >> yeah, i don't take studies at face value, that say 9 out of 10 bills have traces of cocaine on them, and i went back and did

study, and this one had quite a bit of cocaine on it, actually. >> where did that come from? >> willie department. >> stop wiping your nose. >> i learned from howard dean that things are not what they seem to be, and maybe what will happen in the political process is what will have happened for generations. >> that leads us to the "morning joe" moment. here is howard dean earlier. >> what you are saying is the house will pass a version with a public option, and then the senate will pass one without the public option, and then you vote on it with it coming back in, and you put it back in and need 50 votes, is that what you are saying? >> basically, yes. >> interesting stuff. we'll see how that plays out. >> what did you learn today? >> i am not sure where michael vick stands on the health care. i am still trying to figure out.

>> but he wants you to love your reptile, and your dog and kitties. >> what was it? >> french poodle fajita. >> that's just wrong. >> i don't know. that seems awfully incorrect to me, willie. the howard dean story is a big story, but i will tell what you will be burning up the air waves today and it's whether obama had abandoned the public option, and that is many people on the left, howard dean saying he would not support a bill if it did not have the public option in it. >> we will talk about that on the radio from 10:00 a.m. to noon. >> the senator will get there any way because of the issues -- >> it's time to wrap it up. willie, what time is it? >> time for the "morning

meeting" with dylan ratigan. >> get out your bills. >> good morning, to you. i am dylan ratigan. it's nice to see you. topping the agenda today, public option doa, the white house, potentially looking like it may walk away from having a government-run health care option in this country, and it appears to be back, however, or backtracking, i should say. and we will talk about the benefits and liabilities. and howard dean joins us in a second. also on the agenda today, we are calling it the death panel, death match, contessa. senator grassly joins us live to respond to the wharf words between he and the president.

the senator is among the gang of six. we look forward to talking to him. and tropical storm, the triple threat have jump started the hurricane system. where are they? how much damage will they cause? we will try and answer both. aliens among us. is et really out there? the high-tech missions to find out whether we are really alone in the universe. some say the circumstantial evidence, contessa, overwhelming in favor of et. it's 9:00 a.m. pull up a chair and join the morning meeting. >> good morning to you. once what was a piller of the president's plan, we are getting mixed messages on the so-called public option, and whether it needs to be ultimately, and whatever the bill that comes

forward this fall is. savannah guthrie on the beat has the latest. >> reporter: a lot of people raising their eyebrows at what has been said, wondering if this is the signal the administration is backing off the insistence of the public option in a way it's remarkably consistent. there has been talk from robert gibbs over the months. when asked whether the president would sign a bill that does not have the public option, and he would say the president wants to make sure there is choice and competition. that's what we have heard in the last few days from the president and the secretary. let's see if they have gotten further than that. first of all, from the president at a town hall this weekend talking about the public option. >> the public option, whether we have it or don't have it, is not the entirety of health care