reform. this is just one sliver of it. >> reporter: now, let's listen to this echo. >> they have been more focussed on a co-op, as a competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program. what is important is choice and competition. i am convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those. but that is not the essential element. >> reporter: so after those remarks, we got a little push back from the administration saying this is not a change in position. and here is what linda douglas who works for the administration stated.

>> reporter: you decide whether or not this is a real change from the administration. they always left wiggle room for themselves in case a bill does not contain the public option while expressing a strong preference for it. it seems like between what the president said and kathleen said, they will be willing to for go it if that's what needs to be done. >> okay, thank you savannah. jonathan capehart, and also the man who has been the health care guy from the post. and then former dnc chair, howard dean. dr. dean, welcome back. where do we stand in your view at the white house on the public option? >> well, i thought the assessment was right. i think they are looking for wiggle room. the problem is there isn't any. the co-ops -- we tried the

co-ops before and they failed. they were eaton en up by the private insurance industry. the public option is only to inject the kind of things the president wants. i think the secretary was wrong when she said it's not essential. you don't have reform without the public option. i disagree with the president. to say it's a sliver of the bill, but without a public option, you are pumping $50 billion a year into the insurance industry, and it's hardly a reform. >> is this a trial for the president? >> i don't know. this is a political season. the senate is not even in session. they need to be in session. that's when this stuff gets done. at the end of the day, i don't think the republicans are going to get a single vote for this health care reform, no matter what the democrats do or the president does.

and it will be resolved by the democrats. the real tension is between blue dog conservative democrats and more progressive democrats who want far-reaching health care reform. i think the progressive democrats have the upper hand. i am not terribly alarmed about this at all. at the end of the day, we get a health care bill, it's a reform bill and has a public option in it. >> tell us what you consider to be a critical difference between a country with a public option and a country with a co-op of some kind? >> it's easy to articulate. what you have to do is think about medicare. it's a program that covers everybody. it's much greater efficiency than private insurance. it works really well for most people. most people like it. but not everybody likes it. what the president said, if you like your insurance, and 65% of

the people in the country have insurance and like it, but it's too expensive and they know it. but for those that you who lose your job or your insurance, and you get sick and the insurance people kick you off their policy, a public option, and that's -- you ought to be able to sign up for that. the simplest way to think about this, people under 65 will be able to sign up for something like medicare if they want to. >> yeah, you can create a choice and portability, but you run into a cost issue. how do you manage the expense of this overall process and still provide the universauniversaltyu would see. >> well, medicare's administrative cost is about 4%.

you cannot control cost without a public option. >> you know, is -- jonathan, you are on. are you there? >> i was trying to ask you a question -- >> were you trying to ask me a secret question about howard dean on television? >> no. can i ask the governor a question. sorry about that. what i was trying to ask is what you were saying is if there is no public option in the health care bill that the president should not sign it at all. i ask that question, because last week there was a piece law meanting the fact that he went the all or nothing route, and announced the incremental victories was probably the way to go, and we probably would have had a much different health care system if he had gone that way. so do you think the president should not sign the health care

bill if there is no problem option? >> i don't think the president should sign a bill that -- i don't think the president -- >> it's all you, dr. dean. >> are you okay now? >> yeah, we are clear. >> okay. i don't think the president can sign a bill that puts $60 billion of private money into the insurance industry, and that's what the bill would be without the public option. i hope he would not sign that bill. i don't think the house will pass a bill like that. but there is -- my advocacy would be if you are not going to have a public health option, strip the bill and require insurance companies to insure everybody, and stop them from kicking people off and don't let them charge huge amounts of money for sicker patients. that's not health reform but

insurance reform. you will make the market work better for the people it works for. that's an incremental step. i would strip the money out of the bill. it's going to be expensive, and if you are not going to get reform you should not bother with the expense. >> do you believe the political process allows for this? in other words, when you look at where we are now and where we have to go the next few months, does the political process allow us to make an assessment of the public option, if we end upsetting the public option down, do the political processes allow room for the incremental reform that you just referenced? >> i think the public option will pass. i think it will be signed by the president. here is why. the republicans clearly have no interest in this bill. they want to kill the bill because they want to hurt the president. we might get one or two votes in the senate, and not any in the house, i don't think. given that, this is really an argument between the blue dogs

and the senate and the house and the progressive democrats. i think at the end of the day, the progressive democrats will have the upper hand. the blue dogs will not vote against a health care bill. i think the public option is in the bill, maybe not the public option the president originally described in the campaign, but a real public option and a real option, too. many people of the public will not pick it and stay with their private insurance, but it's the safety valve you need to bring down costs and get people insured that cannot get insured otherwise. >> it's great to have you on today. i am confused. i agree with most of the issues on the policy and the option, because it's an important piece of the bill, but i was surprised to say if you don't get it you need to strip the money from the bill. in 2004, the bill did not include a public option, and it was $94 billion a year or something along that.

>> when i was running for president? >> yeah, and you said, and i agreed, it was health care reform. >> let me tell what you my bill did in 2004. it did have a public option. it allowed everybody over 55 to sign up for medicare if they wanted to, and it insured every child under the age of 25 in a canadian-style payer system. in my state, everybody under 18 whose family makes less than $66,000 a year can pay $480 a year and sign up for medicaid. and then people in between those ages, they were left to the employer-based system. it involved a public option, for those under 25 and those over 55. >> i am running out of time here, and i have to wrap it up, dr. dean. the key things for folks to keep in their head, when they are

trying to figure out what the difference is between a public option and a co-op. >> the co-op is blue cross blue shield, and that got taken over. that's what the co-op is. there is no evidence it works. when they tried it before it failed. they have no influence on the market whatsoever. a public option is what i described. allowing people to sign up for medicare if they are under 65. >> i want to mention "howard dean's prescription for health care reform." there is the first-ever iphone application, that includes an e-book. >> yeah, that makes it easy. >> congress is going to be overwhelmed here with iphone applications. meanwhile, we are breaking it down. what are the differences between the public op hundred and co-op plans. what are the pros and cons of

some of the plans. first, a triple threat of storms brewing in the caribbean this morning. earlier today, tropical storm bill became the first named hurricane of the season. he is still lurking in the atlantic. and claudette weakened to a tropical depression. and it's pouring rain on the panhandle. and we have the latest. what, if any, is the damage assessment, jeff? >> reporter: well, there was not much, joe. it was a surprise to a lot of people here. a lot of eyes were focused, as you just said, out into the atlantic with ana and bill. and now, this is inland, and it's weakened into a depression. heavy rain is the issue here. five or six inches worth. you get that kind of rain in a short amount of time, you will get localized flooding. the winds got up to 50 or 55

miles per hour in gusts. there was damage, though very isolated reported here on st. george island where i am. and panama city, possible damage there. but overall, a wake up call to everybody that we are in the middle of hurricane season. dylan? >> jeff, thank you so much. what are we looking at right now, rafael? >> well, the tropics came alive over the last weekend. we have three named storms. now, we are going to watch ana, which is over the caribbean. it's expected to remain a tropical depression. you can see tropical depression claudette, and that's going to be a rain event over the next couple days over alabama and mississippi. and so get ready for flooding concerns there. and then east, tropical

depression ana moves over puerto rico, and expect it to stay weak because of the rough terrain there. and hurricane bill, we will watch that one over the next few days. packing winds of 75 miles per hour. this storm is expected to strengthen up to a major hurricane by early wednesday. hopefully according to the models, we will watch it turn towards bermuda and away from the mainland. up next, wildfire fury. are we really alone in the universe? "newsweek" looks to see if there are aliens among us. and the money being spent to find out where they are.

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welcome back, contessa has other headlines we are following this fine, beautiful, lovely summer morning. unfortunately, it starts with wildfire however. >> that's what happens in the dog days of summer if you are in california. they are trying to control a dozen wildfires burning in that state. and hot, dry, windy conditions make that difficult. and how is the progress going their, michael? >> reporter: well, you say hot, but it's cool and mild here. and that's part of the reason

firefighters made headway here. they gained the upper hand on the wildfire that has been burning since wednesday. there are hot spots of concern, mainly on the flank. but firefighters say it's 65% contained. as a matter of fact, most of the evacuees near the nearby town of bonny doon have gone back home. at this point, no homes have been destroyed in all of this. there has been a long drought here in the state of california, as you know, and there are almost a dozen wildfires burning in the state. one of the wildfires we were looking at has been burning in santa barbara county, 21 miles or so east of santa maria. and dylan was mentioning

earlier, this happened in a marijuana trafficking operation run by mexican drug cartel. some of the suspects may have tried to flee on foot and may be somewhere in the san rafael wilderness as we speak. >> thank you for the update. the president may take a side trip to visit ted kennedy. ted kennedy is battling brain cancer and not able to attend the funeral of his sister, eunice kennedy shriver. obama is set to arrive in martha's vineyard on sunday. michael vick says he cried in prison because of the guilt over dogfighting. in an interview with "60 minutes," he said he deserved to lose his contract with the atlanta falcons.

>> i knew the magnitude of the decisions that i made and the poor judgment and what i, you know, allowed to happen to the animals. you know, no way of explaining the hurt and the guilt that i felt. that was the reason that i cried so many nights. >> wow, okay. well, vick is getting a second chance now. he signed with the philadelphia eagles thursday. and, dylan, he is pledging to devoting himself to teach kids to be kind to be animals. >> any plans on using his salary to help that effort? >> i don't know. it could be a lot of talking. general motors wants to jump-start sales for a car that cost $4,000. it could be produced and sold in asia.

remember that one that was expected to jam the roads because it was so affordable. gm is going to come up with one. >> yeah, like "the flintstones." >> backlash against the stimulus. government spending? is it working. plus, ahead on the next hour, the death panel death match. you don't want to miss it. senator chuck grassly joins us live to talk about his efforts of bipartisan health care reform in america. that's at the top of the hour here, exclusive leon msnbc. - hello! - ha! why don't you try a home cooked meal... with yummy hamburger helper? oh! tada! fantastically tasty, huh? ummm, it's good. what would you guys like? hamburger helper.

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contessa has more of today's top stories plugging in, as we call it. what are they talking about today? >> usa today has a poll that has been done. a lot of people say the plan has no impact on the economy, or it makes it worse. 60% doubts the stimulus plan will help in the years ahead. and of course, we have seen things turning around. >> well, you keep your job, and you did not know what you don't know. >> yeah. >> here is the other story of the day. i am wondering if it will have people taking the dollar bills out of the wallets. 90% of the money in the united

states tested positive for cocaine. >> i bet you 90% of the dollars in america test positive for a lot of things. >> donuts, for instance. >> chocolate sauce. >> yeah, and powdered sugar and cocaine. >> yeah, once we had to leave the building because of the anthrax scare, and it was doughnut sugar, powdered sugar. >> is that true? >> yes. >> coming up in the second half hour of the "morning meeting," the public option versus the co-ops. we will try and break down the differences. why co-ops don't work for those that say they don't work. why you should care one way or the other. plus, the aliens among us, nasa, out there looking for

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's progressive. call or click today. just two times a week all right. welcome back. nice to see you. 9:30 in the east and 6:30 out

west. call it a death panel death match. president obama making an attack over senator grassley. we will talk to the republican from iowa, in fact, at 10:30 now. tropical storm triple threat. hurricane season is arriving out of nowhere seemingly. all of a sudden from nothing to something, here we are. let's check on the weather. plus, e.t. phone home. is there intelligent life out there somewhere. "newsweek" gathered the evidence, and we will talk about what can help us learn more about alien life and perhaps alien health care. the opening bell sounding on wall street. stocks plunging, and investors around the world worried about consumer activity. we know the story and will come back for that another day. leave it in the garbage bag at the fed, and it will be fine.

we will talk this morning about government-run health care versus a co-op somewhere. >> here is the difference between the two. a government-run public option could be directly with private insurers. the president says it would keep them honest. republicans argue it would cripple the entire insurance industry. and some top democrats say the idea lacks support in congress. >> the fact of the matter is, there are not enough votes in the united states senate for the public option and never have been. to continue to chase that rabbit is a wasted effort. >> we heard from former vermont governor, howard dean said it failed in the past.

now, using startup cash from the federal government, and after that they would be run independently, and then they would be nonprofit. they would operate in the public interests, and that alone would encourage keeping costs down. again, governor dean was pointing out that blue cross blue shield that started as a co-op ended up running like an insurance company. >> joining the conversation is jonathan capehart, and esra. now, how do you create a larger co-op to try and break up the old things of health insurance, if you would? >> it would be difficult. i am not saying you couldn't do

it. you could create a co-op in such a way where they had national bargaining power. you could get complicated in the co-op plan and the government choice, but the way i understand it, if liberals get their way, they will have a strong public plan. if it goes down from there, you don't have a co-op plan doing what the public plan did, right? you have people that don't believe the same thing, that don't believe the profit motive is a primary problem. we are trying to create a way to go up the middle. i spoke to senator conrad -- >> is going up the middle, basically nobody gets anything? >> nobody gets what they want. i came up with senator conrad when he came up with the idea in his office. he said a senator came to me and asked to find a compromise in the senate, find something that

liberals and conservatives could support. essentially -- he did not say this, but he said find something that would let everybody save face, right. i have you have to look and say if you go from the public option to that, what you are doing is the people believe the things that made them think up the public option, they are not winning, so their problems are not going to be solved. >> go ahead, jonathan? >> so does that mean progressives, they won't go for the co-op idea, it's public option or nothing? >> i don't think it will be public option or nothing. i think the public option is still alive and will fight for it. if at the end of the day you go to conference committee and you can't get it out of conference committee, do i think we are not going to spend $1.3 trillion over ten years covering the uninsured? i agree with the public option, it's a useful and important policy experiment, but not the core of the bill.

that's why i asked governor dean what i did. in 2004 there was a bunch of programs out there and not one had a public option. it did not exist in that year. >> one of the big things is to try to go after the monopoly, the anti-competitive structure the insurance companies have been able to build by lobbying government. another thing that comes that that tries to break the anti-competitive structure are the so-called insurance exchanges where you get more collective lobbying, and it's as if you made everybody in america part of the same union. have you to join a union to get the benefits of collective bargaining, and it could be a union against the insurance companies if you will in the negotiation. how do these exchanges work? >> they are the most part of health care reform. the problem right now, and a lot

of state, the insurers own everything. and you walk into target, and there are a lot of difference producers of goods that would be competing for your dollar. you go online to a website, as congressman and federal employees do, and you click right, and you compare them. senator j. rockefeller has an idea for a nonprofit group that would rate all of them -- >> yeah, and i have been told the biggest existence to a insurance exchange is the labor unions, because they feel they give up the leverage of forcing or getting people to join the union in order to get the collective bargaining power. if a government mandates an insurance exchange and mandates coverage that it diminishes the union's ability to get new members because you get union-like benefits without joining the union? >> well, that does not come up so much as policies that have to

go along with the insurance exchange to unwind of employer-based health care system. it could be the bridge from this system to a new one. this system where the washington post controls my health care, and if i get fired i don't have health care. maybe you cap it. and unions are concerned because they feel they bargained for the benefits and they don't want to see them eroded. they are protecting what you already have in health care. >> but i feel like -- there seems to be a culture in the country of protecting what you believe yourself to have even if it cost the entire country the balance of the future? >> not only that, but if you look at the auto workers, what you have now is what you will have in four years from now. that's a short-sided view. >> you pick any of the groups, and they are basically willing

to tore teed yoe the entire nation for their own reasons. >> i think one of the problems you do have, you see it with the co-op option or the fact that we are not going to touch employer tax excluesion. at some point in the system which we all say is going to bankrupt us and is terrible, it's going to change. somebody within it will have to change. >> and the jvampires in the system are unhappy, and they are sucking the money out. i expect they will be expect, and that's not a reason not to do it. any way, ezra, stick around.

contessa has some news for us. the vampires are angry because they are going to stop sucking our blood. here is claudette, coming through with rain and high winds. that's not a very good segue. after making landfall in the florida panhandle as a tropical storm this morning, claudette, now a depression, it caused minor flooding and downed trees there. meanwhile, bill became the first named hurricane of the season overnight. the hurricane is still over the atlantic, about 1,000 miles east of the caribbean islands. president obama's next stop on the western tour is phoenix today. he will address the dfw's annual convention. you can expect the war in afghanistan to be a major topic in the address. right now the troops are trying to secure the country in this week's upcoming elections. and today money problems is

forcing chicago to maybe have some sort of government shutdown. what shut down, peter? >> well, it feels like a holiday, and it's unpaid for 18,000 city workers. if you were planning to put out your garbage this morning, it's not being picked up today. the health clinics sit down, and the public libraries closed. it's a reduced service day. a mandatory furlough as chicago tries to get back the budget gap. we will put up on the screen the three reduced service days. today is the first one. another one will be the day after thanksgiving. the final for the year 2009, will be christmas eve. they hope to gain back the city's mayor. richard dai daley also taking a unpaid day off. a guy attacked a mayor with

a metal pipe because a mayor tried to help a grandmother in a domestic dispute. a man was threatening to shoot himself and others, and the mayor steps in, and the next thing the attacker is attacking the mayor with the pipe. they later caught him. the mayor a hero, but in the hospital. >> yes. >> you got nothing? >> i got nothing. >> with a pipe and the hospital -- >> brave guy. >> people need to relax. don't get worked up. i am one to talk, i know. lots more to come here at the "morning meeting." and so they tell us, "newsweek" argues there is more than enough circumstantial evidence, in fact, to accept aliens as fact. maybe not quite? we will take a look at high-tech

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question for you. are aliens among us? well, they are at the box office. $37 million bucks coming in, the alien invasion a favorite of hollywood. the fascination of the extraterrestrial. and nasa launched a mission to see if there are other planets out there to see if whether or not we are alone in the universe. joining us for the discussion, "newsweek" correspondent writes about this in the latest edition of news week. i believe you have strong circumstantial evidence to say the least. what is your lead and how do you back it up? >> sure. yeah. basically, hollywood always said that aliens are going to come down and visit us. but scientists don't believe that's the case. in the past couple years, they have made a bunch of

breakthroughs that led us to believe that there are other planets out there that could harbor life. there is water out there elsewhere in the solar system, and we have seen planets orbiting the sun that leave scientists to believe there are other planets in the milky way galaxy alone. >> how many galaxies are there? >> well, it approaches infinity. the numbers there are limitless. >> an few hundred billion plans similar to the planet earth, is that correct? >> yes, there are chances that are there are other forms out there, whether intelligent or not are high. and that's what the mission is aiming to do, to pinpoint the planets that are like earth,

close enough to the sun that they orbit to be warm but not so far away as they are freezing cold. they are the right side with the right gravity that can harbor live similar to what we see here on earth. >> do they do this? in other words, how do they identify that this number of planets exists, 100 billion planets like the earth. how do they even reach that conclusion? >> sure. the 100 billion number comes from -- it's almost like a mathematical calculation when you look at the number of stars. when we look at planets found similar to our solar system, they can infer from that that the number might be somewhere in the 100 billion range. now, they don't know for sure, and that's what kepler is designed to do. go out there intensely at a small part of our galaxy, about 100,000 stars, look at every star and watch shadows that pass in front of those stars. from that information it can identify the size and the orbit of those planets and

potentially, you know, isolate the ones that are like earth. where we go from there is another question. >> so just to be clear and i'll let you go, the number of planets similar to the planet earth is roughly a few hundred billion times infinity, is that correct? >> it could very well. right now we're in the early stages of actually finding those planets and potentiallily finding life. >> let's say just for round numbers we'll see there's 100 billion earths times infinity. does that work for you? >> it works for the scientists who are making estimates, and it sounds like a good number right now. >> i feel like once we add this infinity multiplierer, it doesn't really matter. >> exactly. >> thanks, andrew. congratulations on the cover piece. i look forward to giving it the full run here in just a little bit. as we head to break, goodness knows what he wants to talk about. but apparently it involves tiger woods. we are back with a little golf and our friend touray.

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welcome back. time to go to the break room. and our friend touray, tv series "mad men" returning for its third season last night. that was very exciting. or so i'm told. you didn't watch "mad men"? what, do you sit up reading, like, the journal? >> i was driving. >> speeding again? >> speeding. stuck in traffic, really. >> it's time for "the break room." "mad men" is back and smooth and subtle as ever. you know it's a cultural phenomenon when "the new york times" runs two editorials about one tv show the day before the day it starts to come out. they're in 1963 now. if you know anything about history, the jfk assassination, the mlk march on washington, the beginning of beatlemania.

you know the world they've inhabited in "mad men" is now ending. very fascinating season ahead of us. >> yeah. >> a lot of male kissing last night, too. >> really? >> yeah. they're pushing the envelope over there. >> what's with the male kissing? >> in a massive upset, tiger woods lost. he putted like a human in the final round of the pga championship, allowing y.e. yang of south korea to slide past him thanks to an eagle on the 14th. that's an incredible shot, mom. the first asian-born man to win a golf major. after y.e. sank his last shot, the announcer said, y.e.s. >> as if we didn't see that coming. >> eagle, two shots below par. so that's really, really good. and the eagle was on a four-shot. so they're saying -- if they're saying you should make it in four and he makes it in two, you know -- >> you're the man. >> -- that he's throwing it down. he hit tiger in the mouth on 14, kept the lead from there.

never let it go. >> teed off and put it in the hole. >> tiger hadn't putted like a regular person, he probably would have won. but, you know, congrats to y.e. he did his thing. 110th in the world and yet he's beating tiger. tiger never loses his lead on the last day of a tournament when leading. he's 14-0 in majors when he's leading on the last day. so this is an extraordinary thing on a lot of levels. >> thank you for the context. still ahead in this second hour of "the morning meeting," the misinterpretation of the so-called death panels in health care simply will not go away. the death panel death match still to come here. president obama taking on one of the few republican senators who could indeed help push a bipartisan bill through the senate on this very thorny issue. and after months of nothing,

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without a public option, you're pumping $60 billion a year into the private health insurance industry, and i think that's an enormous mistake, and it hardly qualifies as reform. >> welcome back. second hour of "the morning meeting" under way. that was governor howard dean earlier this morning with us saying there is no option but the public option for health care reform. and today we're asking, is the public option even available as an option right now? also this hour, death panel. the death panel death match. senator chuck grassley's war of words with president obama. senator grassley joining us live. he one of three republicans actively trying to put forth a bipartisan senate bill. meanwhile, tropical triple

threat. three storms brewing up trouble in the atlantic. one of them now a hurricane. we'll look at the state of play in stormland as michael vick says he cried so many nights over the dogfighting operation that toppled his career. the prison crying gave him the redemption he needs to step back on the gridiron and be celebrated once again? we shall see. it's 10:00 a.m. pull up a chair, join the "morning meeting." well, is the public option no longer an option when it comes to the president's health care reform bill? nbc news white house correspondent savannah guthrie joins us live with the latest. what's going on, savannah? >> reporter: a lot of people are looking carefully at the words of not only the president but also health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius over the weekend where it seems they moved a little further away from the public option. let's play what kathleen sebelius said on one of the sunday shows yesterday. >> they have been more focused

on a co-op, not-for-profit co-op as a competitor as opposed to a straight government-run program, and i think what's important is choice and competition. and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those. but that is not the essential element. >> reporter: that seems to go a little bit further than the administration has gone before, although that frame of words, that choice in competition, that has been said over and over again by this white house saying, look, bottom line, whatever it done in health care reform, it has to increase choice and competition among insurers. so we'll leave it to the viewers to decide whether or not they are really inching further away from the public option. but listen to the pushback you're already hearing from more of the progressive side of the democratic party. specifically howard dean on your show, dylan, a few minutes ago. >> the public option is really the only way to inject the kind of things that the president wants. and i think the secretary was wrong when she said it's not essential. it is essential. you don't have reform without

the public option. i guess i'd even disagree with the president. >> reporter: of course, just to remind everybody, the whole issue about the public option is whether a long-side regular private insurance plan, health care reform should create a government-run insurance plan. the notion being from here at the white house that that would increase competition, force insurers to have better prices because they'd be competing with the government. of course, a lot of republicans and conservative democrats think it's a slippery slope, a way that will ultimately get insurers out of the private market altogether and lead to a government takeover of health care, dylan. >> savannah, thank you very much. jonathan capehart joins us looking at health care winners and losers. we welcome you back. mickey, haven't heard from you yet. we've prepared a little something to drive the conversation. feel no need to stay strictly to it. among other health care winners certainly dick armey in a sense, also a loser. he falls in both categories. the republicans, palin, gingrich, grassley, higher

profile and will argue democracy winner. the losers appear to be the public option, potentially the uninsured if it doesn't pass and dick armey because of his freedom works nonsense, association with some of the nonsense perceived to be associated with freedom works would be a better way to say that. mickey, your sense of where we stand in this dialogue. >> well, i think the big winner is grandma because it's clear that we're not going to pull the plug on her any time soon. >> thank goodness. >> and any attempt is going to fail. the loser, i think, is the administration because they're winning the inside game in washington, which as i wrote about this morning, but they're losing the outside game. they haven't just begun to play it. it's been played for months, and public opinion is against them. i don't see how they pass any bill if public opinion's against them. >> jonathan, how do they turn themselves into a public winner? >> well, i think they're trying to turn themselves into a public winner now. i mean, the president was in

montana. he was in colorado doing these town hall forums. the one in new hampshire trying to snatch back the conversation, the agenda from the sarah palins and the newt gingrichs who had been driving a lot of the talk about imaginary death panels and things like that. and i think mickey's right. they've been playing a good inside game, but they've been playing this for months now, and that they had to, at the end of august, snatch it back shows that they weren't doing a terribly good job. and now that we're in august when people are starting not to pay attention, we'll see if the image that sits in the american people's heads when they're on the beat is that president obama, at those town hall forums, or is it back to sarah palin and death panels and all of the negative messages that the republicans have been trying to set in the american mindset? >> winners and losers from where you sit. >> i think it's right. i think that they're basically trying to survive august, right? the senate finance committee is both the winner and the loser,

and the big potential loser is max baucus. he created his own gang of six. if they don't pass anything, this will fall on his shoulders. it will be considered him who failed health care reform. but if he comes back with a bill, changes the game a little bit, then it will show max baucus and the senate finance committee are so far as major legislation goes in this town, really the only game. >> mickey, i haven't heard your two cents on co-op versus public option. your thoughts on the latest on the conversation as another week dawns. >> well, i'm for a public option. the fear is that the costs will be too small, i think. but it's clear that obama always intended to give up the public option. people who went to his forums for the past few months said that he was trying to get the left in the mood to accept the compromise that didn't include a public option. the problem is even if it passes all these committees, if it's 50/40 against in the popular opinion in september, october, november, it's going to stall even if max baucus does his job.

>> as -- i want to play if i can -- do i have the sound from rachel maddow over the weekend with dick armey? take a listen to this, ezra, and then give me a comment. >> if you give a government program and you let me choose to be in or choose to be out, that's generosity. if you force me in irrespective of my desires, that's tyranny. now, if medicare is $46 trillion in the red with no idea how we're going to pay for it, why do they not let people who don't want to be in out? >> this is a really important point. the anti-health care reform lobby thinks that medicare is tyranny. >> ezra? >> that was dick armey explaining he doesn't know anything about health care. it's an interesting comment. i mean, there's no option in the public plan here that would force anybody in. actually, what would happen is i couldn't buy in. most people couldn't get into it if they wanted to because they

can't buy into the exchange. medicare, of course, generally speaking, there are private plans in medicare called the advantage program. you really are in a situation where people don't know what they're talking about. mickey's entirely right that if public opinion doesn't turn around on this, the administration is in real trouble. but what's interesting about public opinion right now, opinion on if you say president obama's health care plan, it's quite low, losing at the moment. but if you describe his bill, the plan underneath it, then it wins by 60%. >> what are some of the key characteristics -- ezra, what are the key characteristics in the description that get people more interested? >> you know, it's generally a description. they say, you know, going to take money either by taxing employer health benefits or taxing the rich, pay to give the uninsured coverage. you know, regulate insurers, create these exchanges, possibly the public option, they're very scrupulously fair questions because they're trying to get exactly this tension, right? is the unpopularity of this right now about the process and people just don't think what's coming out of the white house is going to work?

or is it about the ideas? and what we're finding right now is that basically people are looking at this process. it's chaotic. everybody's arguing. health care is very personal to them. they're saying i just don't believe anything that could come out of that would be worthwhile. when they hear the idea, they're okay with them. >> mickey, you agree with that? >> i agree with that except obama's been running around for months talking about bending the cost curve in part by restricting end-of-life care. that's not one of the ones that test well. now he's trying to pretend we didn't meanie of that. if he didn't, why did he talk about it for the last four months? >> listen, thank you, mickey, ezra, stick around. contessa, what else is going on in the world? >> we are looking right now at claudette, a tropical depression. it slammed into the florida panhandle as a tropical storm early this morning. the storm hit near ft. walton beach with high wind and drenching rain. claudette is expected to weaken even more as it moved over land. but already it's dumped inches of rain in the area and contributed to minor flooding. meanwhile, we're looking at bill, the first named hurricane of the season. became that way overnight. a hurricane over the atlantic.

about 1,000 miles now east of the caribbean islands. we'll get a live report in a few minutes on the progress of bill. firefighters are trying to control almost a dozen major wildfires burning in california. and in some areas they're making some significant progress. let's go to nbc's michael okwu in davenport. what's helping firefighters get a handle there? >> reporter: well, it's definitely the mild winds and the cooler temperatures, contessa. for much of the last 48 hours, firefighters were talking about these hot winds that were supposed to sweep in from the north and potentially fan the flames closer to communities. but that never really materialized. since wednesday, this fire has grown about 7,000 acres. but the news here is largely positive. the firefighters are walking around with a little bit more ease, you can tell. and they are really talking mainly now about some mop-up. the fire is about 65% contained. there's still some hot spots out there, but it's mainly in small regions in the northwestern

flank of this fire. and the talk really is about getting all of the evacuees back into their homes, about 2,000 evacuee s have now been returne to their homes. >> all right. thank you, michael. kuwaiti officials now say a spurned ex-wife started a fire at a wedding over the weekend. it killed 43 women and children. the wedding was the second marriage of her former husband. maids say they saw the woman pouring gasoline over the marquee where the celebration was taking place. the woman's under arrest, reportedly confessing she was upset over her bad treatment at the hands of the groom. in kuwait they celebrate these separately, women and children in one tent and men are separated out. they say it went up in three minutes flat. spread that quickly. later today the police officer at the center of the much publicized arrest of harvard scholar henry louis gates. sergeant james crowley will attend a from terminal order of police convention. he's going to thank them for defending him when president

obama said he acted stupidly. obama later backed off that remark and invited both men to the white house for a beer. he was hoping to smooth things over. crowley call it had a productive meeting but said no apologies were offered. and that photo of the squirrel crashing a minnesota couple's vacation picture was the top google photo over the weekend. some people wonder, come on, now, this was photo shopped, right? here's what melissa and jackson brandt told matt and ann this morning on "today." >> we snapped a couple photos of just us. while we were doing that, our little squirrel friend was running all over. and then as we, you know, started taking the pictures, he ducked down into the racks and then heard the shutter release scene and became interested and thought perhaps it was going to give him food, it was food dispensary item. >> and he popped up at just the right time. >> awesome. melissa said all she did was upload the photo to the internet and "national geographic" and apparently the fan has its own

fan site now and a facebook page. it's just an anonymous squirrel. they haven't really named him yet. >> give him a name, a t-shirt. there's a marketing campaign to be had on that squirrel. >> he might be way more successful than any of us are. indeed. up next on the agenda at the "meeting," a triple threat of storms churning up in the atlantic. the hurricane season showing signs of life yet for better other for worse. a live update after the break. we're back here on msnbc right after this. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast,

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welcome back. tropical trouble brewing in the atlantic after a lot of nothing, we now have something. bill became the first named hurricane of '09.

but claudette, which was threatening, has weakened to a tropical depression. that storm already hit land in florida, bringing up ten inches of rain, although not a lot of damage. the weather channel's jeff morrow joins us live from st. george island, florida, with a sense of what we're dealing with now. what's going on, jeff? >> reporter: all right, dylan. well, again, it wasn't a huge system that came in, a tropical storm. maximum winds had it came in late yesterday and last evening about 50, 55 miles an hour. that might have caused some minor structural damage to a few buildings and maybe tore a little bit of siding off a few houses. the heavy rain you mentioned probably was the biggest headache from claudette as it came in. that and some very rough surf keeping a lot of people out of the water. there is an unconfirmed report that we may have had one drowning death right up off of panama city. but most people were staying out of the water as they should. and the gulf is still pretty much kicked up today. so it's probably best to stay out. and we still have rain to deal with, flood watches out across parts of the florida panhandle

all the way up into alabama as the remnants of claudette continue to move slowly inland. so it looks like probably a cleanup day today and then probably a better day for the rest of the week. but as you mentioned, this isn't the only game in town. we've also have tropical depression ana, and we have now newly formed hurricane bill out in the atlantic. so things really starting to ramp up. dylan? >> indeed, jeff. thank you very much. to that end, here's rafael miranda with what exactly it is we're dealing with. what's developing? >> good morning, dylan. we have the a, b, cs. we'll start with the biggest one which is hurricane bill right now. a category 1 storm still way away from the mainland. we don't have to worry about this one for a few days. it's getting its act together, looking impressive on the satellite already. you see conditions are favorable for increasing strength of hurricane bill. right now winds at 75 miles per hour. the movement at a fast clip, west-northwest 22 miles per hour. let's take you through the path. forecast to become a major hurricane over the next couple of days. and then hopefully as high

pressure breaks down over the north atlantic, we'll watch this storm take a more northerly turn away from the mainland. unfortunately that looks like bad news for bermuda, good news for us. closer to home tropical depression claudette continues to weaken into a remnant low. this is going to be a rain event over the next few days for the deep south but not expecting any more wind damage. it drifts to the north and west over the next couple days. last but not least, tropical depression ana moving over the caribbean. we can thank puerto rico and hispaniola for weakening the storm. lots of rough terrain. we're not going to worry about this one either. coming up, a conversation with senator chuck grassley, one of the six men in charge of deciding what health care reform will look like coming out of the senate. he'll weigh in on the co-op, his own legacy and his responsibility in this conversation and his thoughts on how we can improve a system in this country that costs a lot but doesn't give us a heck of a lot in return. also, we'll plug into politics. contessa will join us in that

conversation. and democrats, are they in trouble for next year's midterm elections? one of our favorites at the "morning meeting" says there are reasons to be plenty worried at this particular point in time. ( conversation ) garth, you're up. hold on, i'm at capitalone.com picking a photo... for my credit card. here's one from my prom. oh, what memories. how 'bout one from our golf outing? ( shouting )

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welcome back. monday morning. the political scene, awake, active, even if it is august. what's going on? >> there might be a lot of plotting and planting that needs to be done for democrats. nate silver of 538.com. >> love him. >> he's predicting the democrats are in big trouble come the 2010 midterm elections because if you look at history, whichever party wins the white house, then the following midterm election, that party loses seat. and without a particularly big intervening event, it looks like the democrats, he says, he put the chance somewhere between one in four and one in three that the democrats might actually lose the house of representatives.

there are a lot of seats where those future up for grabs, will be a lot of competition. >> makes sense. >> the picture might be a bit brighter but it might be time for democrats to do some work there. >> i would say if this keeps up midterm elections, democrat, republican, martian, whatever you may be. >> could be as exciting as the presidential election. >> quite a shooting match. what else? >> the white house is going to change the way you sign up for e-mails from the white house. apparently what's happened is there are these advocacy groups that deliver online petitions with signatures. it appears that when they deliver them to white house.gov, in some way those e-mails were captured. and so there are all these people who don't want to get updates from the white house who are getting them. the white house says sorry. we'll change it. also, this is coming to us, the ceo is infuriating its more progressive customers. because he has taken on obama's health care plan. >> he's got his own health care plan. >> the ceo of whole foods. >> i believe he does, yes.

>> he writes that obama's health care plan is likely to move us closer of a government takeover of our system. there's a protest, a boycott group. they already have 4,000 people signed up. it seems like if you're the ceo of a major grocery store chain like that, you might want to keep your customers happy. sort of take a middle-of-the-road stance. >> we already have a large corporate oligopoly. at the expense of the people. >> just not the government, dylan. >> listen, why can't we just have a competitive -- i don't understand why -- >> no, no, no, that doesn't work. coming up in the next half hour of the "morning meeting," the death panel death match. we need michael buffer or something. senator grassley, the honorable senator grassley, i might add, joins us to talk about what some are calling a war of words between he and the president. we'll get into co-ops, the public option and where that gang of six goes from here.

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does the president take a swipe at one of the few republican senators who could help him push a bipartisan health plan in the senate? was it a misunderstanding? is this all foolishness? is this about death panels? are there death panels? are we on the wrong conversation altogether? nbc news chief white house correspondent chuck todd sorting fact from fiction as only he can do. hello, sir. >> reporter: good morning, dylan. well, how did this all start? obviously we know the whole death panel conversation is somehow the government going to pull the plug on grandma becomes sort of a favorite talking point of beating up this health care plan for some on the right, former alaska governor sarah palin probably gave the most ink to this. but here's what chuck grassley, the ranking republican, said about the issue which did spark some backlash from democrats. take a listen. >> there's some fear because the house bill, there's talk abocou for end of life.

from that standpoint, you have every right to fear. you shouldn't have counseling at the end of life. you ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. we should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> reporter: now, a few days later in colorado at that town hall on saturday evening in grand junction, president obama took a veiled shot not just at senator grassley but at some of the republicans who were in congress still in 2003 on this very issue. take a listen. >> when i had people who just a couple years ago thought this was a good idea, now getting on television suggesting that it's a plot against grandma or to sneak euthanasia into our health care system, that feels dishonest to me. and we've got enough stuff to deal with without having these kinds of arguments. >> reporter: now, grassley took

it personally because there was a report out there that said the president was taking a direct shot at grassley. while that's still up for debate, take a look at grassley's statement. let me read it. the context and details of this year's proposal are different than the 2003 legislation. it's not fair to americans who are asking questions to gloss over those facts. in fact, end-of-life provisions have been a part of ongoing senate finance committee discussions as a result of those realities and the possibility of unintended consequences. dylan, here's the reality. there isn't going to be any voluntary or mandatory end-of-life stuff in any bill at this point. it's become too politically toxic. that's something that's probably going to go away, which frankly a very minor part of this. but it was obviously used by talk radio and some other conservatives to gin up opposition because it was easy to put in a ten-second sound bite or a bumper sticker, even. >> and your point, it's also relatively easy to take out. >> reporter: right.

and so get rid of it before it becomes too much of a distraction from what is the bigger issue for the president. >> two more weeks on death panels doesn't help anybody. co-op the conversation today, howard dean says, listen, co-op's a waste of time. it's just a prelude to becoming another insurance company. other folks say listen, this is the perfect compromise to get bipartisan support to create pricing leverage. anything from the white house on co-ops this morning? >> reporter: well, look, they're trying to say the public option isn't gone, isn't gone. but i can tell you months ago when ken conrad, the senate democrat that first proposed this co-op idea, when he proposed it close behind the scenes were telling me hey, they know this is going to get traction in the senate. and they think there's a way to make this a pretty good idea. folks want to learn more and understand it. there's a couple of examples. there's a health care co-op in minnesota and wisconsin that's out there. there's one in washington state that ken conrad likes to use as

an example. go out there, check it out. see what you think. he'll use examples of land o'lakes. >> i use my apartment downtown and i don't care for it, quite honestly. i hope it's better than that. >> reporter: i was just going to say, that is the worst example. i don't know anybody who lives in a co-op who likes living in a co-op because somebody else tells you what color your wall can be. >> that's the least of it. >> financial credit unions and insurance companies and financial unions are frequently -- residential. i had another question for you. i forgot what it was. chuck, we'll talk to you later. thank you very much. what's going on? >> we're watching claude ed, now a tropical depression. it's not even named. also we're looking at government buildings shut down, services shut off in chicago. part of a citywide effort to save cash. let's go to nbc's peter alexander there in the windy city.

looks pretty calm right now. what's happening, peter? >> reporter: pretty calm. feels like a holiday in many ways, an unpaid holiday for 18,000 city employees including the mayor, richard dadaley. it's in an effort to save months. months ago chicago had to lay off 400 people. they hope not to repeat that. the city hall shut down today. your garbage not getting picked up. it's going to have to wait till tomorrow. public libraries closed. the health clinics as well as the senior centers all being shut down in an effort to save what they think will be about $8.3 million. we'll put up this graphic which shows you the days. the goal to save $8.3 million. today is one of these reduced service days. also the day after thanksgiving and christmas eve. if you call 911, someone's still going to answer the phone. police and fire are unaffected. chicago not the only city doing this, contessa. cincinnati, dallas, sacramento, among the other cities forcing mandatory furloughs. >> you've got to have emergency

workers, somebody to answer the phone on 911. my goodness. thank you. a new report, gay men are being targeted as part of a social cleansing campaign in iraq. human rights watch claims militia men are torturing and killing gay iraqi men across that country because of their sexuality. the watchdog group is urging the iraqi government to step in and stop the violence. connecticut is making swine flu vaccines available to the public for free. the state's also recruiting doctors and other health care providers to administer the vaccine when it becomes available. connecticut expects to receive 1.8 million doses initially. those most at risk including pregnant women, young children and health care professionals will be vaccinated first. and take a look at some -- well, they're little turtles wiggling their way out to sea. >> were you just grossed out by a baby turtle? >> i couldn't really see what it was. the monitor -- kind of looks like the bugs that often crawl over our rockefeller center camera. now i can see it.

>> cute. >> right. that was written for me. cute. i usually like to withhold judgment until i see them. really when you see them, not so cute. okay. different. >> and from a distance, much like a cockroach on the top of 30 rockefeller center. but up close, cute. >> i can already tell i'm going to get into trouble for this. now they're cute, people. i love animals. all of them. including turtles. >> contessa hates animals. that's how that one -- you thought you were showing us a cute turtle story, and now you led us believe -- fear not. no, that's fine. up next, here at the "morning meeting," ex-con michael vick says he shed tears behind bars for the hurt and guilt he felt. for running an illegal dogfighting ring. >> but now he loves animals. >> vick now getting a second chance on the football field. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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joining us now, senator chuck grassley. been described at length for his role, ranking member of the senate finance committee, a member of the gang of six, three republicans, three democrats working under senator max baucus to come out with some sort of a bipartisan plan out of the senate. senator grassley, welcome to the program. on the phone as it may be. what's going on between you and the president, if anything, as it pertains to these death panels? >> well, listen. i see that as nothing more than a distortion from the far left bringing up these end-of-life concerns. not the issue, we ought to be talking about. we ought to be talking about government takeover of the health care system. we ought to be talking about the exploding deficits.

we ought to be talking about the failure to get on top of high health care costs, and all of these things are in the pelosi health care bill. and it seems to me they don't want to talk about the real issues. >> how do you take your role and direct it to the issues that you think are the most important, and how does the conversation today about the health care co-op as an alternative to the public option factor into that? >> well, first of all, i hope that you understand that there's a lot of co-ops around the country. just a few of them involved in health care. so there's a lot of experience of 150 years with americans with co-ops. and as an alternative to a government-run program that this administration's been pushing for six months, it seems to me it does two things. it does offer option, and it does it in a way that is consumer and patient oriented as opposed to a government-run plan

that would eventually have government takeover of health care which is one of the things that, for the last four or five years, i've been negotiating not to have. we've got government enough in health care already. we don't want them any more in health care. >> senator grassley, howard dean was here earlier in the "meeting," had the following to say on co-ops. i'd like you to take a listen and respond. >> public option is really the only way to inject the kind of things that the president wants. and i think the secretary was wrong when she said it's not essential. it is essential. you don't have reform without the public option. i guess i'd even disagree with the president. >> his point being that blue cross was a co-op, that co-ops may be effective to yield sort of the pricing

other health practitioners to come to rural areas. so what's good about co-ops is the fact that first of all, just like we've known co-ops for 150 years, they serve for the benefit of the members and the total benefit goes to members themselves. and when it comes to health care, for those that say we ought to have more competition than what we have, it would provide that competition. and you remember, a government-run plan, when you've got the government running something, the government's not a fair competitor. the government is a predator, not a competitor. >> what are your thoughts when you see some of the alternative conversations that just go to creating more collective

bargaining power relative to the insurance companies through the insurance exchanges, through the use of co-ops, again, may diminish some of the union power, but add to the collective bargaining power of all the patients of america relative to the insurance companies, whether it's ten other competition in that fashion? >> well, from the standpoint there's two things we can do for competition. one of them is to have the exchanges. and the other one is to have -- allow which we don't now, the sale of health insurance across state lines. in the case of exchanges, as long as they aren't involved in regulation to displace state regulation and they're state run, and they're consumer friendly, and they're not a lot of legalism that you get in a regular health insurance policy, and it's understandable, and you can get everything seen in one spot, i think that's consumer

oriented. and we want that. but we don't want any regulation that many people imply with it. >> you want to create an efficient market where there's an inefficient market. is that fair to say? >> yes. and i think -- >> how do you view -- i'm sorry, go ahead, senator. i'm sorry. >> well, i think any american believes in competition. >> well, we say that, but we have a lot of product -- if you look at what happened with the banks, that's not competitive, right? they used government money but paid themselves. you look at the health insurance companies. we give a lot of lip service to competition, but there are fears that a lot of the largest enterprises in our country, whether it's banks, health insurance companies, or others actually utilize the restrictions of the government to protect themselves from competition including the health insurance companies. do you think that's going on? >> well, first of all, you covered a lot of ground, particularly when you talk about government helping banks with this bailout. you know, that's what's stirring up all this stuff at town

meetings. it's not just a health care issue. >> i know. it's cultural. >> they see the socialization of banks, general motors, and they're scared to death the federal government's going to take over 100% of the health care. and 82% of the people are satisfied with their health care. so they don't want to go any further down that road. >> how do you view this in your legacy as a leader in america? what do you view as your intent, and what will you define as success for your own political career as it pertains to health care in america in this particular debate? >> well, forget about my political career. it could be over tomorrow, or it could last another term or more. so i'm not worried about legacy. i'm worried about good policy, and i guess good policy is the best politics. but i don't want government takeover of health care. i don't want bureaucrats getting between doctors and patients. i want affordability and

accessibility for health care. i want to change the perverse incentives that are in our present way of paying health care providers so that we move from -- so that we move from reimbursement based on quantity to reimbursement based on quality or pay for performance. and i want something that's going to zero in a coordinated way to the chronic diseases that eat up 75% of our health care dollars. >> yeah. chuck todd with us in phoenix. hi, chuck. >> reporter: hey there. senator grassley, are you willing to be one of just three or four senate republicans that support an eventual deal if you get what you want out of the senate finance committee and it's an agreed-upon deal with the gang of six, and that's basically the bill that comes out of the senate, with you willing to be just one of three or four republicans while 36 or 37 including the senate

republican leadership as a whole all being against it? are you willing to be just one of those three or four republicans? >> i would as soon not, and i told the president that a week ago thursday. and i told max baucus that over a period of three or four months. so i'm not telling you anything new. in fact, let me build on what you said and why i say that i wouldn't be. i'm negotiating for republicans. and if i can't negotiate something that gets more than four republicans, i'm not a very good representative of my party. and secondly, we're talking about health care. that's life or death for every american. and we're talking about -- and we're talking about one-sixth of the economy. that ought to be done, as senator baucus has said, in a consensus sort of way where it passes with an overwhelming vote in the united states senate. >> but senator, let me follow up. if you have -- if it's something

you believe, i mean, you and senator baucus have been running that finance committee for a long time. you know these issues well. if you think this is a good deal, are you going to -- and overall because of the politics of the situation you can't get more republicans on board, you're going to go ahead and vote against it even if you think it's a good deal? >> well, it isn't a good deal if i can't sell my product to more republicans. >> but i guess the underlying aspect of chuck's question, senator grassley, is that if there is a faction of the republican party that will vote no against the president simply to be partisan, but you are looking at a health care policy that you actually believe is a better policy than the current policy, would you vote for that policy even if it ran against the grain of the party who was playing for 2010? >> well, listen. you know, don't forget, there's 40 republicans, and there's

40 -- probably 40 different approaches to health care. within that caucus. and what we have to do is find a broad base of support within the republican party just like i think max baucus is negotiating in a way in which probably a majority of his party right now wouldn't agree with some of the things he's doing. >> understood. senator, a real delight to get some time with you this morning. i hope you'll rejoin us soon here on the conversation. senator chuck grassley, thank you, sir, for the time. >> bye. coming up, the takeaway here right after this. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride.

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welcome back. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> he's back. >> nice for somebody to say. >> i feel like we've got the death panel thing put out of the way. i feel like the death panels

have died, and now we move on to co-ops and public option. >> it's a horrible rumor that drags down the conversation. >> absolutely does. >> doesn't really give honest discussion into it and injects lies into it. >> exactly. >> and fear into it. >> yes. >> let's talk about real things. >> yes. if we can come out understanding these co-ops, we'll come to understand these insurance exchanges, and that way the next time -- every year, you get your c.o.b.r. c.o.b.r.a., sure, but if you can afford $5,000 to $15,000 a month for health care, it's really no problem. >> do you trust the insurance companies to take care of you or the government to take care of you? >> how about this? how about you to take care of you? >> well, there's that, too. >> between that and government, who do you trust? add a third option, you. >> there you go. >> why does it have to be one monster or another monster? to heck with them. >> i agree. >> all right. nice to see you. >> nice to see you.

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good monday morning, everyone. i'm carlos watson. right now, is a public option off the table or not? now, the white house signals it's ready to abandon plans for a government-run health insurance program, but then it backtracked. is the public outcry starting to sink in? is the stimulus working? a new poll shows americans are skeptical about whether the president's $787 billion plan is doing anything at all to end the recession. and gay rights in america. as more states consider same-sex marriage and the calls for repealing don't ask, don't tell grow, we ask, should the obama administration be much more aggressive? and should michael vick get a second chance? now the disgraced quarterback

continues his public relations push to repair his image after going to prison. morning, everyone, i'm carlos watson. we're kicking this week off with a terrific hour for you. we've got democratic congresswoman nikki tsongas, former commerce secretary gutierrez and pat buchanan join us as well as advocates. bus erin burnett's at the stock exchange and savannah guthrie live at the white house. not to mention we'll talk about michael vick with a columnist. let's fast forward to the top headlines as always. tropical storm claudette has made landfall along the florida panhandle. claudette is the first named storm to hit the u.s. mainland this year. it's been downgraded to a tropical depression. meanwhile, the first official hurricane of the season is churning in the atlantic, bill, could become a major hurricane by the middle of the week. and search efforts continue for a georgia woman missing for nearly a week. police believe the 38-year-old, kristi cornwell, was abducted while walking near her parents' home. you see her picture. her cell phone was found three miles from where she

disappeared. another public apology from michael vick. speaking on "60 minutes" yesterday, vick said he was sorry for his involvement in a brutal dogfighting ring. >> i should have took the initiative to stop it all and i didn't and i feel so bad about that now. i know, you know, that i didn't step up. >> vick, of course, will try and resurrect his career this season with the philadelphia eagles. i want to introduce my cohost. each day we invite a guest host to stay with us for the show. today i'm pleased to have back dr. jeffrey sacks from columbia university. i would argue one of the most influential economists anywhere in the world. good to see you. >> nice of you to say. thanks. great to be with you. >> you've been traveling the world a good bit including recently coming back from india. >> i've been in china and india. fortunately those economies are still moving ahead. thank goodness we have some part of the world economy working. that's some good news. >> and it was interesting, i did see a report that sa