joe sist sestek. get your phones out. a phone survey on the hot issues and the panel coming up as well. first tonight's "op ed." we're about halfway through this recess. i have to say the right wing talkers and town hall crazies and senator chuck grassley have pretty much hijacked health care reform in this country. now, the white house i think is dazed and confused when they're starting to communicate with people. they don't know what page they're on. they don't have a playbook. you can't go over to the white house and say, can we have your plan for health care, and boom, there's a 200-pager right there. they don't have that. what they have is a bunch of bullet points and a bunch of ideas. the bottom line here is that the president i think needs to be more direct and start doing some arm twisting with some folks that aren't listening to him. the president believes in a public option. really? health care coverage for everybody is part of the democratic party platform. they want to cover everybody.

the party has made that statement. but some conservative democrats are working against their president and their party. >> look. the fact of the matter is, there are not the votes in the united states senate for the public option. there never have been. so to continue to chase that rabbit i think is just a wasted effort. >> all right. now, that comment right there has lefties across the country furious. and i know senator conrad's office is getting a lot of phone calls tonight. but it really creates a problem. here you have the chairman of the senate budget committee. you have him also sitting on the senate finance committee. kent conrad knows the numbers. here's the problem. no house democrat in a red or purple district is going to go out and stick their neck out and be talking about the public option when senator conrad is saying that it's dead on arrival in the senate, they don't have the votes. the conservative democrats on the finance committee i think have gone almost rogue on all of this. chairman max baucus is the number one taker of the industry

money. he's never supported reform. it's time for the president i think to put the hammer down. we're getting to the 11th hour. when they turn the hourglass. mr. president, you're acting like a senator. you're not a senator anymore. you're going to have to act like the president of the united states when you get in the oval office and tell these guys what you want and then tell them to go over there and make it happen. there's too much nice stuff going on. the right, they're just chomping at the bit at the idea president obama's on the verge of a major failure. they say that the golden guy out there in the oval office has lost his magic touch. the democrats are ready to hand the republicans, think about that, what are we, middle of the summer, now into august, a couple of weeks away from september. he hasn't even been president eight months. and the democrats are ready to hand the republicans a pr victory because they got shouted down at a town hall meeting? because the right wing sound machine of america has been so effective with their frank luns

bullet points? this is crazy. a month ago today the president of the united states told the american people he would not sign a bill without a public option. >> any plan i sign must include an insurance exchange. a one stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, costs, and track records of a variety of plans. including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest. >> the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform. this is just one sliver of it. one aspect of it. >> same president, different answer, i don't like it. in july, the president promised health care reform. centered around a public option. now he acts like it's just another footnote on the stomp. lin did douglas, the white house communications director for health care reform, insists nothing has exchanged. you've got me -- well, not

confused. i'm disappointed. i'm starting to not believe what's coming out of the white house. it seems like we've got this shell game going on. the president goes out on the stump and says one thing. but inside the beltway they're saying something else and it confuses everybody in the house who are holding all these town hall meetings, and of course over in the senate side, no public option. what is going on here? one final point. some of these conservative democrats seem like they're willing, almost eeg tore oppose the president. you need to know this, folks. if the president gets tagged as a failure the entire democratic party is going to go down with the ship. do you remember hillary care? that was 15 years ago. when you start talking about health care reform, you think about those days and how it didn't work. that's the last thing we need to have happen here. get out your cell phones. i want to know what you think. will no public option mean loss of support for president obama? text "a" for yes and "b" for no to 622639.

we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now is congressman anthony wiener of new york. congressman, mixed messages. okay? we've got the health and human services director saying one thing. we've got the white house communication office saying one thing. we've got two different sound bites from president obama. hey. i'm on the team. but i want to be on the a-team, not the b-team or the c-team. what's happening here? >> you and me both. look, most of president obama's message has been right. i will be glad to follow him up to mountain because this is an important thing, we have to solve health care. the problem is i'm getting the distinct impression that the white house doesn't know for sure what it wants. i believe, and i think i've heard you say this, too we need a simple plan, a single payer for all. medicare for all americans. simple, easy to understand. but we have to have some form of public plan to provide competitive pressure on these pharmaceutical and insurance companies. right now it sounds like what's coming out of the white house is, if we just got way we're

going the health insurance companies will wake up and one day and say, we'll hold down prices on our own. that ain't going to happen. >> not to switch gears but i think there's a parallel here. let's talk cap and trade. a lot of you guys over in the house did a very courageous thing with your votes on cap and trade. only to find out later there weren't enough votes in the senate. i think that there's a real possibility that you're going to lose some seats in the house over that cap and trade thing because it is a tax increase. here we are with health care. we've got the house over there wanting a public option. but yet you've got senator conrad saying, we don't have the votes over here in the senate. are you guys going to stick your neck out again? what good is it going to do and what message does it send to the american people? >> never mind the inside politics which seems to be, they think they can get a vote or two in the senate and get the house. thaptd today. look at the policy of it. president obama said all those weeks the reason you need to fight so hard for a public plan is because if you have another private industry plan they're going to keep rates going up and

up and more and more people losing their insurance. look. i think that what we need to make very clear, those of us who believe in national health care, believe in lowering our tax burd burden, is that approximated obama, if he's not going to support the public plan, he's not going to get a bill. >> if he doesn't, he's flip-flopping. if he backs off on public option, that's not the guy that liberals elected. i can tell you what my vade i don't show there's a lot of people that are very upset. they feel they're being thrown under the bus. a lot of people who supported this president to get elected all of a sudden are saying, what the heck is going on here? you can't have reform unless you have a public option. you can't challenge the insurance industry unless you have a government-run plan. and now we're kicking around this thing about co-ops. the senate's not going to go with a public option. how would a co-op fly with you? >> it wouldn't achieve anything. it would be a very nice idea, that if we all wanted to get together as citizens and negotiate for lower prices. we could have done that

yesterday. that's not going to happen. the public plan is so important to those of us who care about health care reform because it's not perfect but at least it's something. and i think today you saw the white house backing away from their backing away. the important message here is that if the american people believe that the health insurance companies are getting too much in profits and overhead, they're not going to get it with a co-op, they will get it with a public plan. >> backing away from backing away. one person that is not backing away, that is nancy pelosi. with tremendous clarity, she is out there with a statement today about the public option. there's going to be a public option coming out of the house. we agree with the president that a public option will keep insurance companies honest and increase competition. a public option is the best option to lower costs, improve quality of health care, and ensure choice of expanded coverage. okay, we know where the speaker is. but the senate, and the senate has to have their arm twisted by the president. why isn't president obama playing hardball with the senate

finance committee? >> you know, and i have the greatest respect for the president and for my friend rahm emanuel. they're trying to get a bipartisan deal. bipartisanship is a means, not an end. they used to say the senate was the cooling saucer of our democracy. they're going to be the icebox before this is done because we're not going to get anything. i think we as democrats were elected to lead. that's what we should be doing in this case. we can't wait for some republican to wake up. with all this negotiating going on i don't see any republican saying, okay, now i'll support it. right now the white house is making concessions. i don't know who we're making a deal with at this point. >> congressman, good to have you on, thanks so much. a friend of mine, ralph nees, ceo of national coalition of health care and formerly the president of pfaw, people for the american way. good to have you on tonight. how politically risky this is for president obama not to have his health and human service secretary on the same page, or at least creating some confusion, and at this point in the game the communication

people having to come out and clarify and remind all of us where the president is? what's the political fallout here if they don't get on the same page? >> ed, i think that the white house and all of the senior officials do have to get on the same page. but i've got to tell you, they've made an extraordinary amount of progress in the last six or seven months. if you were to ask me, ralph neas, national coalition on health care, january 20th, would we be out of four committees and about to be out of the fifth by mid-september, i would have been ecstatic. we've made a lot of progress. we have got to make sure we address quality, cover everybody in the united states, and make sure we cut the rate of increase in health care costs. that's the bottom line i think. >> ralph, the only way that's going to happen is if you have a true public option, a government entity competing with the private sector. a co-op isn't going to do that. we'll talk more about that later

in the show. would you go along with a co-op? >> i would go along hopefully with the public plan, blended with the private insurance. however, our bottom line of the coalition is accomplishing our criteria objectives. if there is another way to do this, which could be a variation of a current public plan -- i'm not saying it's the cooperative, but some kind of variation and it accomplishes our goals -- the president's goals -- that could do it. i think you made a good point about the president and communicating in a better and more effective way. he's done well but he's going to have to exercise even more leadership. but it's just not the president. what we are hearing is not just from kent conrad but dick durbin, senate majority whip, who says, i'm pounding but i can't get the 60. if we're going to get the 60, we're going to get a public plan, then the community, the proponents of health care reform have to be a much better job. we've got to deliver the 60. >> ralph, if we don't get a

public option, if we don't get a public plan, what do you think democrats who helped obama get in the white house -- i mean, there's going to be hell to pay, i think. what do you think? >> i think that the president gets something to the house/senate conference and we getting some that we believe accomplishes all of our goals, and i think the best way to do that is with the public plan, to make sure we keep the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals honest, but if we get coverage for everyone, if we control the rate of increase in health care costs, if we get enhanced quality, i think that's when the americans, including the liberals, at the bottom line moment, are going to be. but we can get all of those objectives and we can get a public option, along with the other parts of this bill, if we organize better, if we communicate better, if we educate better. put the president has to get 60 votes at some time or another in the senate. >> reconciliation.

ralph, we're out of time tonight. i appreciate your time very much. we'll come back with you and talk more about this another day, this will be around for a while. coming up a lot of americans are dazed and confused with co-op talk and conservative democrats are dishing this out and a lot of people don't know what the heck it is. i'm going to fork out some details on it in just a minute. ♪ kelly saunder's nature valley. ♪ the place that inspires her to go faster... ♪ and slower. ♪ elk mountains, colorado. where's yours? 100% natural nature valley granola bars. the taste nature intended.

president obama has been president for just over 200 days and the white house still has to clarify what the positions are when it comes to health care reform? here's the problem. i guarantee you. liberals are wavering on the president. our president's got a street cred problem, if you know what i mean. u feel. olay deep cleansers go beyond what the eye can see. they remove 2 times more dirt and make-up than basic cleansing. for a deep clean feeling,

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welcome back to "the ed show ro ." looks like conservative democrats are winning the health care fight, no public option. the senate finance committee wants to kill that and replace it with a health care co-op. the white house seems more than willing to just let that happen. >> they have been more focused on a co-op, not for profit co-op, as a competitor, as opposed to a straight government-run program. and i think what's important is choice and competition. i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those. but that is not the essential element. >> not the essential element. let's hold it right here for just a second. the public option would do what? it would address the

pre-existing condition that many americans have who can't get any kind of coverage right now. that's very, very special. you and i know that. we've been talking about this for months. but let me explain just a couple of things about the co-op proposal. people can join the co-op. you and i can join a co-op. it's member-based. it's nonprofit. it's run for the benefit of you and me, the members. we pay dues, we pay premiums. the more members, the more financial stability and strength and it has to go out and do some other things. this is a key point i think is going to need some clarification when we get the devil in the details. are they going to be able to diversify? are they going to be able to go out and buy companies that are going to be able to create some profit to put into the pool? big point there because a lot of companies do that when it comes to diversification. a state could go out and run a co-op. several states could get together and run this thing called a co-op and they could organize. you could have the southern states co-op, the northern plains co-op, the west coast co-op. the federal government would lay

out about $6 billion to $10 billion to start up this process. but would have no control in the operation and no oversight at all. and here's the key. co-ops still have to work with insurance companies. the co-ops might, oh, outsource some of the coverage, depending on their limitations and their ability to pay claims. insurance companies could charge, yes, confiscatetore rates on co-ops making it extremely hard for them to function effectively. believe me, the insurance industry does not want co-ops. they may say that but they don't. this opens the for for, what? collusion. on the other hand, if members of the co-ops have fewer claims, then over time it strengthens the financial stability of the co-op, thus theoretically bringing the rates down. maybe. kind of. hopefully. come on. we need a public option.

you and i know this. medicare works. the only people that say it doesn't work are the righties. have you seen any republicans show up saying, i don't want medicare? they're not giving it back. where's the march on that? for more, let me bring in ezra kline, report are forethe "washington post." good to have you with us tonight here on "the ed show." what are we seeing from the public when it comes to the acceptance of a co-op? this is really in the infant stages, is it not? there's a lot of americans who just don't know the details of this. >> i don't think anybody in america knows what the co-op is. i don't think there's even really been much polling on it. i think the co-op is a solution to or a proposed solution to a political policemen. when ke problem. debt conrad told me june 1st max baucus said, i need you to find a compromise between the public option supporters and those who oppose it. he came up with this with his staff over a weekend. it has never sort of migrated

out of the -- out of congress. it's not been sold in the country. there are no organizations behind it. it's not been sold by the president or explained in the major speech. i think it sort of sits right here and the question is whether it will solve the political problem. i don't think it's a particular solution to a policy policemen and it hasn't been put forward as such. >> how soon could they implement a co-op? you're talking about administration that has to be set up. you're talking about communication centers that are going to have to be set up. i don't envision that happening before the next presidential election. >> i think the health care plans we're seeing don't start until 2013 anyway. i presume we actually could do it by then. >> the thing that really sticks in my craw is why would max baucus go to consequent conrad and say, hey, no public option, you've got to find a compromise here. in the meantime, the date that you mentioned back then, 72% of the american people wanted the public option. now as this thing has drug out over the months and this recess

has taken place and these town halls and the bullet point culture has come upon us, now we've got a mess on our hands. and this creates a new problem for the president because ezra, it appears to me that a lot of liberals are backing off the president, they're frustrated right now. >> max baucus has been incredibly dedicated to getting chuck grassley on board with this. chuck grassley would never have supported a public option. thus baucus needed to go in this direction. one thing i'd gently press you on is i think they're putting a lot of this on the president. >> i am. >> the election involves congress, right? he's sort of as clinton was before him and all the presidents who have tried to help reform have been really subject to the whims of the committee chairmen here. i don't think anybody wanted max baucus to retreat in the gang of six but it happened. we're seeing a diminishment of the cut stiff on this. this really is in the hands of congress now. i think everybody's sort of outside of the process. no matter how much power they

seemed to have a couple of months ago, has been a bit sidelined by max baucus' ability to sort of do what he wants. >> i have to throw this in. when lyndon johnson was president, he wanted medicare, dammit, he went across to the hill and he made sure that he got what he wanted and he twisted some arms. i'm not saying that's the only way it can get done. and somehow, president bush, he found ben nelson to vote for his tax cuts. i don't see president obama really using the bully pulpit, other than going out and telling everybody in the country he's for public option then allowing the senate finance committee to gut what the people want. i don't get that. >> sure. but you look at bush and he got beaten back on privatization. johnson didn't do total health care reform because he thought he could and pass it. i agree with you and i don't know how hard they've got ramhm pounding people's heads into the walls. it does seem to me they've been pretty clear on what they've wanted. you're watching the process get

away from them a bit. my sense is if they can get it back they would. i think right now a lot of the power just sort of is in these baroque conventions of congress. i think you have to look at the senate, look at the people who have tried this before, say we've got a broken institution out there. >> ezra kline, "washington post," great to have you on tonight, thanks so much. busted. a sleazy group is tricking people into appearing in their anti-health care reform ads. i'm blowing the cover off that next right here. it's next in the "psycho talk," stay with us. these days, wouldn't it be great

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in "psycho talk" tonight, a serious one. right wingers aren't letting insignificant things like facts get in their way of health care reform. threatening us with a british health care system. take a look at this commercial produce the by the group conservatives for patients' rights. >> before congress rushes to overhaul health care, listen to those who already have a government-run health care. >> in britain, katie burkeal, denied the pap test that could have saved her from cervical cancer. kate spall, her mother suffered on a wait list as her renal cancer became terminal. >> two tragic stories. two women who must hate britain's health care system. the two women you saw in that ad were told they were going to be in a documentary, not an ad. conservatives for patients'

rights flat-out lied to them to get them in. kate stall told "the times of london" "i feel like i was duped. what i said is what i believe and i stand by it. but the context it has been used in is something i was not aware would happen. i would not align myself with this group at all." duped? conservatives don't have any legitimadg legitimate arguments so they've resorted to tricking people to get them to lie about the situation. lying to people to support their absolutely wrong-sided health care reform and argument, that is "psycho talk." president obama says the war in afghanistan is a war of necessity, not a war of choice? that's his first bushie, i think. the highest ranking former military officer elected to congress will join me to make the case next. credit card companies are cooking the books. cooking up a brand new scheme

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by moving forward in iraq we're able to refocus on the war against al qaeda and its extremist allies in afghanistan and pakistan. we will plan responsibly, budget honestly, and speak candidly about the cost and consequences of our actions. our new strategy has a clear mission and defined goals. to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al qaeda and its extremist allies. >> welcome back to "the ed show." that was president obama this afternoon in arizona talking about ramping up our involvement in afghanistan. the war is a major drain on our nation's resources. something i think has been overlooked as of late. it's really taken a back seat to the raging debate over how we're going to pay for health care in

this country but we have 62,000 soldiers over there, another 6,000 will be on the way and be there by the end of the year. we need to be talking about this. joining me now is pennsylvania congressman joe sistestek. good to have you on tonight. appreciate your time. obviously health care taking a big chunk of the debate in this country right now and behind the headlines is that we basically have an open-ended policy in afghanistan. and to my knowledge, nobody's ever won over there. from the western world. so what do we make of this? your thoughts on exactly what the president has got us into. we're send morgue people in the -- send morgue people in there. what do you think? >> without a question this president has to provide an exit strategy. that is, a series of benchmark busy which we can measure success and failure. i actually voted for that and the amendment did not get defense in the authorization bill. there's four critical elements here. before we say this is a vietnam

i think we have to remember that when the russians were in afghanistan, they actually killed 1 million afghanista afghanistanis -- afghanistan citizens. they actually had refugees of 5 million. they actually, because of their brutal types of efforts, had a force against them of 250,000. we face in afghanistan probably at best about 20,000 taliban fighters. it's not a large number. so this is not like vietnam where we faced 500,000 viet cong and vietnamese -- >> is it something we can win? can we wipe out these 20,000 that you're talking about? >> we don't need to. there's four things that need to be done. we have to recognize that we have to talk with the taliban. only about 30,000 are very radical, al qaeda-ized taliban. the lesser, generally somewhat ideological but mostly impoverished youth who go there for a job, literally for a job. second, we have to recognize our insurgency as the new general is

doing has to change. it's not about seek out and kill, it's about earning trust of the local citizens -- >> that's nation building. you can't earn trust unless you're doing some nation building. and i don't know if the american people signed up for this. this is what the president had to say. he was asked a question about war of choice, war of necessity. here it is. >> there will be more difficult days ahead. the insurgency in afghanistan didn't just happen overnight. and we won't defeat it overnight. this will not be quick nor easy. but we must never forget, this is not a war of choice. this is a war of necessity. >> you believe that, congressman? >> i do, and here's why. it's because this is not about afghanistan any longer. because we got -- i was head of the navy on the ground early in the war. came back on the ground 18 months later. because of our focus on that tragic misadventure in iraq, general hayden when he was head

of the cia a year and a half ago said al qaeda has a safe haven in pakistan. what's safe haven mean? when i went on the ground there early in the war, head of the nsa said to me, joe, the problem with the safe haven is we don't have any actionable intelligence. that is, making the move so that we can pick up where they are. and they can quietly sit there and plan against us another potential 9/11. we cannot permit a safe haven for planning against us from the al qaeda who got us on 9/11. that's the real objective. >> you're willing to give up american lives on an open-ended policy, and also billions of dollars, we don't know how long we're going to be there -- this is iraq all over again, isn't it? >> no, i made it very clear, when i was director of defense policy at the white house and clinton administration we always had an exit strategy. >> okay, so -- >> let the public know, are we succeeding or not? and our public needs -- it's why

i voted for that amendment jim mcgovern submitted and it failed to pass the house of representatives. we didn't even have enough democrats for it. we need a measurement of our success or failure so then we can make a decision, is it worth it? we don't have it. >> former admiral congressman joe sestek, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me, ed. >> for me on this let's turn to our panel. writer and commentator nancy giles with us tonight. political health reporter for "the huffington post" sam stein. former special assistant to president george w. bush ron christie with us tonight. nancy, starting with you. the patience of the american people, where is it right now on afghanistan? >> i don't think it's there. i think as the casualties keep mounting and as the financial and human cost of the war keeps getting bigger, i think people are getting frustrated. i keep going back to thinking, though, that it's the war that is eight years late. if we had stayed in afghanistan back in 2001-2002, when we had

osama bin laden at tora bora, we could have made some progress. now i feel like barack obama inherited this mess and the timing is just extraordinarily bad. as you said earlier, we've got financial woes here. we've got health care reform -- >> we don't know how much finances. that's the thing. secretary gates is saying a few more years. that could be billions and billions of dollars. ron christie, it appears to me that president obama is rather hawkish on afghanistan. what's your take on his position? >> ed, i don't think he's hawkish. i think what the president articulated today is the best way for victory for americans. i can't speak for the rest of the guests here on the show tonight. i never searchrved in the milit so i'm not about to second-guess admiral sestek or our brave men and women who are advising the president. we know al qaeda attacked this country and kill thread thousand innocent americans. we do do know there's been actionable intelligence al qaeda operatives are working in the

pakistan/afghanistan border region. we must do whatever it takes to eliminate the threat to the american people. i hear people say, oh, the good war is in afghanistan, the bad war is in iraq. i'm for victory. i don't like these political terminologies being tossed around. we should support our men and women in uniform and make sure that we don't get hit again. that's the ultimate price that the american people are willing to pay for, i believe. >> the latest report to come out of the senate is, if they want some answers about this policy, they want to know howl, how much it's going to cost, the number of personnel that it's going to be taking. is this potentially a big problem for the president if we don't get some progress within the next year? what do you think? >> you'd like to think that congress would exercise its prerogative in terms of the purse, in terms of paying for this war. from what i understand and from what i've discussed with members of congress he does have the political latitude to pursue his policy. like ron said there is an objective here, that you have to defeat al qaeda, chief victory, however vague that notion is. keep in mind three-fourths of

democrats polled in a cnn poll said they were not in agreement with the president's policy. that said, in congress he has wide agreement. i think he has the bandwidth to actually do forward with this. two, three years down the road if things aren't changing then you're going to see some big push-back. >> i think the president's going to have to articulate his exit strategy on this. >> that too. >> stay with us, a hot more coming up. just days before watchdog rules go into effect the credit card companies are coming up with the new ways to get your money. congresswoman carolyn maloney is on with us tonight to talk about how you can keep that money and to bring you up to date on exactly what they're doing. so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day.

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announcer: ask your doctor if once-daily spiriva is right for you. in my "playbook" tonight a sneaky play from the credit card companies. the first phase of the credit card accountability and disclosure act starts this thursday which means some companies are rushing to raise rates before the law keeps them from doing it. there are a lot of new protections for credit card holders but you can bet that the card users are going to find new ways to put customers big-time. these could include more annual fees, variable interest rates and of course fewer reward programs. let me bring in the congresswoman who got it all started for the consumer, carolyn maloney of new york. she sponsored this act. did you know they were going to do this? >> ed, what's new, they've been doing it forever. that's why i authored the bill is that they were raising rates any time, any reason,

retroactively on balances. and following a whole host of tricks and traps to trap consumers and never-ending cycles of debt. >> i'm hearing stories here in new york that people are going out to dinner and they think they're in great shape. and then they use the card. comes back and they're saying, no, it's no good, you've been rejected. it's become quite a shocker for a lot of consumers out there. what is this law going to do to protect people from an embarrassing moment in any way, shape or form? >> well, first of all, in answer to cancelation of your cards, they can cancel by law for three reasons. that you haven't used your card for over a year. most people would not object to that. if you are not paying your bills or have defaulted and have become a bad customer by not paying your bills. and then the third reason is that they have looked at your credit and deemed that you are

risky. but they must give you notice. the flaw in the law at the present time, which i intend to change, says give you 30 days' notice but they don't say they have to give to it you before they cancel your card. i'm going to put in a bill when we go back into congress they must give you notice beforehand they have deemed you to be a risky customer, for whatever reason, you can then inquire why, and you can switch and go to a different card. >> so right now, they're getting while the getting's good, before the legislation goes in. we're hearing people getting nailed with 30% increase. >> ed, they've been getting while the getting's good for years. >> not like this. >> yes, they have. the reason i authored the bill is i'd get phone called, they upped my rate 30% with no notice, i've always paid on time, never been late, yet they upped my rate retro actively on my balance. i wanted my bill to go into effect in 90 days.

it did not pass but i did get three provisions that will go into effect this thursday. one is 45 days' notice before they increase your interest rate. secondly, a notice that you can terminate your card and not accept the increased interest rate. and certainly not retroactively on your account. and thirdly, that they must give you 21 days' notice so that you can pay your bill and not the tricks and traps of changing the due date catching you in an overdraft. so those three provisions are going into effect. but in february, in february they will have to be honest with you. the rate that they charge is the rate they charge. they cannot change it without notice. it will put competition. you can go to a different card. it will stop the any time, any reason rate increases that are exorbitant and really putting tremendous stress on families during this economic downturn. so help is on the way. but in the interim, they are doing what they've always done.

jam up those rates for no reason. and not even giving you a reason of why they're increasing it. and i would suggest to your consumers that are listening that if they are raising your rate, de si decide you're going close out that card, move on to a lower rate. there are many cards out there with lower rates. let's put competition in the system and lower your rate. >> just like health insurance, right? congresswoman, good to have you with us tonight. thank you, nice to see you. coming up, the white house is -- are they playing a shell game with health care? the president saying one thing on the road and something else in washington. does he have street credibility problems with liberals across the country? [ female announce] the deeper you clean,

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welcome back to "the ed show." health care reform, you might be wondering is it really falling apart in progressive democrats? are they really as furious about it as they are on talk radio and the blogosphere? senator conrad says fighting for public option is "wasted effort." he says even though the democrats have 60 senators they don't have the votes so everyone needs to get on board with a co-op plan. liberal democrats are not going to take this lying down. nancy pelosi, charlie rangel, the progressive caucus, members

of senator kennedy's committee say they're not willing to give up the public option on health care. the public option was supposed to be the compromise. now the goal posts, i guess you could say, have been moved. so where do we go from here? i know there's a lot of liberals in this country right now thinking, gosh, wait a minute, this doesn't sound like obama, he's been such an up-front guy all along. this isn't chicago politics. this seems to be like coffee shop politics where nobody gets upset with everybody and there's really no pushing going on. you know what i mean? nancy giles, sam stein, and ron christie back with us tonight on our panel to talk about this. sam, let's talk about co-ops. you have written a piece in "the huffington post" about co-ops. is there a history here that the american consumer can point to to see if this has any chance of working? >> yes. there's a 2000 gao study on co-ops, a variation of co-ops. the conclusions were very sour on the idea. essentially co-ops don't have the purchasing power to really

create systematic reform that the president has talked about since the very beginning. they're limited in their scope. in terms of how many people can actually get under the umbrella. they're very ineffective in terms of lowering administrative costs. as you mentioned private insurers would be involved in the process and they're doing everything to protect their profits. in terms of policy ideas i'm not sure this is much of a smart compromise for progressives or democrats to make. in terms of politics maybe it's good to get the votes. keep in mind the votes you need to get aren't republican. the rnc came out and said they oppose co-ops. the democrats are essentially working against themselves on this. party leadership like harry reid and the president himself need to say, listen, this is what we want and this is how we're going to get it. >> ron christie, you identified yourself as a health care expert. buddy, i'm all about it. i need to know if these co-ops have a life expectancy. do you think it has a pulse with the republican party? is it a viable way to go?

>> i don't think it's a viable way to go. i think sam's analysis was pretty much spot-on. i don't think some of the versions we've heard about co-ops are going to have the buying power to make a significant difference. you want to talk about a way we can really have real health care reform right now, why don't we loosen those regulations that do not allow you to buy insurance across state lines. that would be one tangible, relatively easy thing for folks in congress to do to allow more people to have coverage. this public option or sense of a co-op i think is dead on arrival. senator conrad's right, they don't have the votes. the president needs to work with congress on behalf of the american people to put something in place that will lower costs and i don't think we've seen that thus far. >> i want to make sure that the american people don't forget this. let's go back to november, last year, right after the election. senator baucus had a plan out. the baucus plan envisions that health insurance exchange would offer new opportunity for individuals and small businesses to easily compare private coverage options and a public

plan and to purchase the policy that would work best for them. the exchange would include a new public plan option similar to medicare. >> public plan, public plan. >> he caved. he caved big-time. >> he's getting a lot of money from insurance companies. let's be honest. we have to say really what's going on out there. and not only -- i think it's important to remember, i think we have the votes in the house to push the public option. and we can't forget that. and we also can't forget the fact that it's being talked about. nothing happened with health reform over the bush two-term administration. we are getting there. i don't want to throw everything away. i just don't want to feel totally negative. >> i mean, you've got the secretary of health and human services saying that it's not an essential part. if it's not essential, what is? >> i didn't hear that. >> ron, how are you going to reform the system if you don't have a prebusinessing condition erased from the element we're facing right now? i'm out of time, we're going to have to answer that another time. that's the way it goes. earlier i asked our audience

what you thought. will no public option mean a loss of support for president obama? 88% of you said yes. 12% of you said no. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. for more information on the ed show go to ed.msnbc.com or wegoted.com. we'll have more with our panel tomorrow night as we do every night. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now on msnbc. i'm chris matthews in washington. to be or not to be. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, death to the public option. is it dead? over the weekend president obama said the public option, quote, is not the entirety of health care reform. he had two of his lieutenants, his secretary of health and his press spokesperson, both imply it was dead. then he wrote a 1,200 word op-ed

piece for the "new york times" and never once mentioned the words "public option." senator kent conrad said instead there aren't enough votes in the senate for the public option to pass. so what happens now? senate republicans won't vote for a plan with a public option. will enough house democrats vote for one without one? that's the to be or not to be question right now. will there be a health care bill or won't there? august has been a cruel month for president obama. republicans are making the case he's going too far in expanding the role of government in our lives. liberal democrats and the folks on the net roots say he's not going far enough. the party in power generally loses many seats in the midterm elections, and nate silver, who is a pretty smart guy on 538.com, he's saying there's ample reason for democrats to be very worried about next year's elections, perhaps deeply so about those 2020 results. he calls it a one in four or perhapne