god telling her to. i hate to tell you this. that's not god. you never took the ear piece out from your last appearance on "hardball." that's chris matthews you're hearing. all that and more now on "countdown." good evening from new york. the fact of the matter according to senate democrat kent conrad who ranks 35th out of 537 in the combined senate house rankings for most contributions from health care industries is there are not the votes in the united states senate for public option. the more salient voice might be that of the progressive democratic lawmaker anthony weiner of new york now saying without a public option in the health care proposal president obama could stand to lose the votes of 100 democrats in the house. that would leave him perhaps 60 votes short of passage of any reform bill there. ticking off peter and paul and

dick and louise to assuage paul, the white house hinting over the weekend it might be willing to abandon the public option. >> whether we have the public option or we don't have it, it is not the entirety of health care reform. this is just one sliver of it. one aspect of it. and by the way, it's both the right and the left that have become so fixated on this that they forget everything else. >> because everything else is window dressing, mr. president. on sunday kathleen sebelius the secretary of health and human services asked to comment on the president's remarks expanded on the hint. >> he continues to be very supportive of some options for consumers. what we don't know is exactly what the senate finance committee is likely to come up with. they have been more focused on a co-op, not for profit co-op as a competitor, as opposed to a straight government run program and i think what's important is choice and competition and i'm

convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those but that is not the essential element. >> a co-op. a cooperative. government influenced but not government run health care component in the system, precisely the kind of system authored by the aforementioned senator conrad in north dakota. >> the fact of the matter is, there are not the votes in the united states senate for the public option. there never have been. so to continue to chase that rabbit i think is just a wasted effort. >> besides which think of the wasted campaign contributions, senator. speaking of wasted effort one reform minded democrat warning that by abandoning the public option the white house could end up losing far more support than it stands to gain from anywhere else. congressman anthony weiner of new york telling cnbc, quote, the president does seem like he's moving away from the public plan and if he does he's not going to pass a bill. later the congressman saying the president could lose the support of a hundred democrats in the house if he does not hold firm on the public option. the white house seeming to want to put the toothpaste back into

the tube, at least some of it, first by suggesting secretary sebelius misspoke then by saying in a statement that, quote, nothing has changed. the president has always said that what is essential that health insurance reform lower costs, ensure there are affordable options for all americans, and increase choice and competition in the health insurance market. he believes the public option is the best way to achieve these goals. today the president addressing veterans, a segment of the population that already receives government run health care, and superlative health care at that, the va consistently outranking private systems in the quality of health care it provides patients. according to a recent study by the conservative rand corporation. in phoenix the president promising the vets their excellent government provided benefits will not change. >> since there's been so much misinformation out there about health insurance reform let me say this. one thing the reform won't change is veterans health care. no one is going to take away your benefits. that is the plain and simple

trugt truth. we're expanding access to your health care, not reducing it. >> now as to everybody else let's call in our own howard fineman senior washington correspondent for "newsweek" magazine. good evening. >> hi, keith. >> the white house is claiming almost simultaneously the public option is not essential and that nothing has changed. these would seem to be mutually exclusive. what's going on? >> not unless you think it was never essential. and my sense of it is and it has been for a long time even going back to the rhetoric in the campaign, that barack obama has been much more interested in the idea of universality and in making history that way than in the public option, per se. but if it is a bargaining chip i think he's playing it way too early. it's like sort of those poker tournaments on, you know, the texas hold 'em poker tournaments that he's turning over all his cards in advance and it isn't helping his cause or he's looking weak as he negotiates with people who don't really want to negotiate with him.

>> and perhaps, i don't want to lapse into poker terminology but perhaps knocking over the hand of the people who supposedly are on his side of the table and saying oh, look what they've got. anthony weiner's point if you abandon the public option you might lose a hundred democrats would abandon the president in the house and even if he is exaggerating slightly it was pointed out the end of last month 57 democrats in the house signed a letter saying they cannot vote for a bill without the minimum of a public option and 57 democratic votes going against this would be enough to kill the whole thing too. what is the white house strategy here? you eliminate the public option and enough democrats vote no to kill reform. if that happens it's not the republicans who killed reform it's the president who killed reform. >> right. i think what's happening based on talking to some democratic leaders on the hill today, keith, is that the white house and the democrats are going to tack back the other direction. what they're going to look for is a way to make a broad enough bill to the liking of liberal

democrats, to have it pass in the senate under that reconciliation special rule by 50 -- 51 votes and make it liberal enough to get enough house democrats to go along even without the so-called public option. they'll try to dress it up in all kinds of other ways, co-ops, extension of medicaid, toward universality, and try to declare a victory and get enough house democrats to go along. that's my sense of what's going to happen. >> there is now also a report the house will delay its vote on the final health care reform bill until the end of next month in order to provide the terminology was a cooling off period from these raucous town meetings. who thinks everybody wants this to cool off? chuck grassley boasted that he was able to con the white house into delaying it past the recess which permitted this farce about death panels and watering the tree of liberty and this quasi-insurrectionist garbage to foment. why on earth would the republicans want it to cool down? who are the amateurs in this

game thinking it's going to cool down if this goes until the end of september? >> i think that's been a fundamental mistake of the white house all along, sad to say. that they thought that the republicans would sit down and really negotiate. i don't think that's happening at all. i think the republicans decided long ago that they were going to slow walk it and try to kill it and try to obstruct it with a smile. and of course now once they've left the hill there's no smile. instead there are guns at the town hall meeting. i don't think that tenor is going to change at all. i don't think there will be any cooling off period. i think the more the president tries to give away in the name of trying to achieve bipartisanship the more recalcitrant republicans will become because they smell blood at this point. >> three years ago donald rumsfeld said it in an entirely different context and i find myself agreeing. appease the wrong people and have you to be intellectually or morally confused to do so. howard fineman of msnbc/"newsweek" thanks for the information. >> thank you. the ranking republican on the senate finance committee all

but admitting he'll vote against his own bipartisan health care bill no matter what's in it because other republicans are going to, too. senator chuck "pull the plug on grandma" grassley telling msnbc this morning whatever bipartisan legislation eventually emerges will be a bad deal by definition if he cannot get a lot of his fellow republicans to support it. >> i'm negotiating for republicans and if i can't negotiate something that gets more than four republicans, i'm not a very good representative of my party. it isn't a good deal if i can't sell my product to more republicans. >> as for house senator grassley and his fellow republicans and how they really feel about the product that is the public option the lawmaker today calling the government a predator. >> when you've got the government running something, the government's not a fair competitor. the government is a predator, not a competitor. >> let's turn to our own lawrence o'donnell contributor

to "the huffington post" and former chief of staff to the senate finance committee. if the republican negotiating is now admitting he has no intention of voting for that bill no matter how good it is no matter what is or isn't in it why in the world has the president negotiated with these people? why not just put the best bill forward let alone give away something or hint at giving away something as big as the public option? >> well, the strategic question is always when do we abandon negotiations? with someone like grassley it's tricky. you know, he has to make certain noises that appeal to his republican base and appeal to his right side. i for example believe he vote add gens sonia sotomayor to shore up his credibility with the right side of the republican party for doing this kind of negotiation. but the things he has started to say recently are very, very disturbing. they should be disturbing to the white house. they should be worrying chairman bachus that this starts not to sound like someone who's coming back to negotiate in september.

if that's the reading they make at this point, then they really do have to abandon the negotiations and start thinking about what can they achieve by just pushing a bill forward with democrats? but that's the scary prospect because what you can achieve with democrats alone does not look good right now. >> evidently it doesn't because the problem seems to be coming from the democrats including the chief one at the moment in his op-ed over the weekend in "the new york times" the president seemed to make another appeal for bipartisanship. what he wrote was let's make sure we talk with one another and not over one another. has he misjudged who he is dealing with in this equation? even if you don't want to consider it a fight, just an equation? because this is the first time i have ever looked at him and politically wondered if he has any idea what's going on here. >> he has completely misjudged it but so has the white house. this is not his fault. he is following the conventional wisdom of the leaders in the party in the house and in the senate and his staff from the

white house. and the lesson that they don't get here is that they compromised at the outset, keith. they didn't go for the best bill at the outset. the president said if he was doing this his own way it would be single payor, effectively medicare for all. he would be with those hundred house members who want medicare for all. but he compromised right off the bat to go to something that would preserve the private health insurance industry and then tortured that thing into a shape that they thought would be acceptable to the middle of american politics. all in the fear of if they went for medicare for all they were terribly afraid of being called socialists. well, we see where that got them, trying to go over in this direction, this tortured way of supporting an industry that doesn't work. they are now still called socialists for having preserved the medical health insurance industry. >> the boy on the playground is going to beat you up whether you fight back or not is the lesson i think we all tried to learn in

the fourth grade. if you don't learn it in the fourth grade i guess you learn it when you're in the white house. >> exactly. keith, the idea with the wisemen is that we'll never be able to get single payor, never be able to get medicare for all. my experience having failed at this kind of legislation in 1994 when i look back at it, there's a lot of people try to blame hillary clinton for making different mistakes at different times and she made all of those mistakes but i don't think it mattered. i think we were going to get nothing in the end because the basic concept of what we're trying to do was flawed. and what the democrats should have been doing for the last 15 years after that defeat is selling medicare for all. and maybe 15 years later, 15 years after that, maybe with the election of this president the congress would be ready for a clean, yes or no vote on that question. >> all right. so -- >> and that would be worth fighting for. >> what does he fight for now? the best he's got right now is a reconciliation bill in the senate and hopefully not losing a hundred democratic votes in the house. what can he achieve now?

>> you see exactly where the problem is. anthony weiner is warning him if you go too far their direction you're going to lose us. in reconciliation in the senate i don't see anything good coming out of that. there are so many ways to prevent elements of health care reform passing in reconciliation, requiring 60 votes to include those provisions, and what you would get would be a very ugly looking sausage. >> lawrence o'donnell, msnbc and the huffington post, great thanks as always. tell the truth about this debate in a more main stream media venue and you get looked at like you're from out of space. our pal rachel found out yesterday on "meet the press" just before she used her ray gun to vaporize dick armey. arianna huffington follows up on rachel's point that mr. armey and the reformers are still trying to undo medicare. then there is the bigger picture if nate silver is right and there are really only 41 firm senate votes for the public option and if anthony weiner is right and there are a hundred democratic votes to lose if there isn't a public option

there is a train wreck ahead for this president and his party. is there a silver lining somewhere or at least a side tog move that train onto? i'll ask howard dean.ma bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know. cheez-it. the big cheese. [ thinking ] burning, itching... but the pain's the worst. i shoulda used... [ bump ] [ male announcer ] preparation h cream. burning, itching, plus maximum strength pain relief, on contact. the most complete relief, from preparation h. pain relief on contact. express each one more with downy simple pleasures feel more calm with new downy lavender serenity feel more daring with spice blossom dare feel more elegant with orchid allure now all have renewing scent pearls that help you express every side of you

downy simple pleasures. feel more the awful truth is told. many of those opposing health care reform actually want to destroy medicare. arianna huffington picks up where rachel maddow left off yesterday. and there may be only 41 maybe 43 votes for the public option in the senate but between 57 and a hundred democrats might abandon the bill in the house if there's no public option. we'll run the numbers past howard dean. the number for glenn beck meantime, 20, 20 advertisers now including walmart that now ditched him after he called the president a racist. worst persons ahead on kount. with an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon. and up to 600 miles between fill ups. it's the most fuel efficient crossover on the highway.

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rachel maddow violated the taboo yesterday again, that this one no one confront the opponents of health care reform about their philosophy or articulate what it really is. she did it on broadcast tv during her first appearance on "meet the press" to dick armey former house majority leader currently louse minority leader running the group freedom works which has helped stir up the ugly displays at town halls around the country designed to kill health care reform. wait. there's more. armey just having stepped down from its law firm after its pharmaceutical clients complained about the heat he was drawing, heat from critics like rachel. yesterday she exposed just how far from the main stream the opponents of reform really are. >> do you really think there's a major uprising of seniors wanting to get out of medicare? i know you're suing the government for your right personally to get out of medicare but do you really think that's the problem, that seniors

hate medicare and want out? >> no. i didn't say that. most seniors, i was talking to my minister the other day. he says, dick, i'm so fortunate i'm in medicare. i said, bless you, my friend, that you get to be in it if you choose to be. but if you give a government program and let me choose to be in or choose to be out that's generosity. if you force me in irrespective of my desires that's tyranny. now, if medicare's $46 trillion in the red with no idea how we're going to pay for it why do they not let people who don't want to be in out? >> this is a really important point. the antihealth care reform lobby thinks that medicare is tyranny. okay? i mean, you said in 1995 that medicare as program i would have no part of in a free world. >> absolutely right. >> you said in 2002 we have to bite the bullet on social security and phase it out. over a period of time. >> and medicare -- >> this is your position.

>> the medicare law that was written -- >> this is very important to understand. >> the antireform lobby, antimedicare, antisocial security. of course direct confrontation is not the only means for exposing the right's radical agenda. there is also time travel. in 1961 the part of dick armey was played by actor ronald reagan whose jeremiahed against social medicine was unearthed by the right last week to attack obama's reform. as media matters and others report the socialized medicine reagan was attacking then was also medicare which passed over reagan's objections and became one of the government's most popular functions. more popular than private insurance despite the dire warnings which have failed to materialize in the 48 years since reagan like armey warned what the tyranny of medicare would entail. >> first you decide the doctor can have so many patients. they're equally divided among the various doctors by the government. but then the doctors aren't equally divided geographically so a doctor decides he wants to

practice in one town and the government has to say to him, you can't live in that town. they already have enough doctors. you have to go someplace else. and from here it's only a short step to dictating where he will go. one of these days you and i are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in america when men were free. >> holy sacagawea. freedom died in 1951? arianna, thanks for your time. >> thank you, keith. >> let me ask you mr. reagan's question from the black and white videotape and records days. do you remember what it was once like in america when men were free before medicare? >> well, actually, i don't have to have such a good memory because all you have to do is look at what's happening in america now to people under 65 who don't have health insurance or even have health insurance but can't pay the deduct ibls. we saw what happened last week,

keith. right here outside los angeles in inglewood when people had to line up overnight to receive the kind of care that is normally provided by doctors and nurses in third world countries and they lined up and waited for eight days. by the end of the eight days there still weren't enough doctors and nurses to see them. that is what it looked like when men were free. >> connect the dots between that mr. reagan of 1961 and the medicare tyranny of mr. armey of 2009 if you'd be so kind. >> there are two parts of the connective tissue. the first part is the fear mongering. the fear mongering that didn't work then to try and paint the arrival of medicare as something leading to a totalitarian state and right now we're seeing any kind of effort to bring about any form of universal health care supposedly leading to

social-like medicine. and the second part of the connective tissue is really the underlying philosophy behind what reagan and armey are saying. and that's not so much a theology because it is impervious to any facts or evidence and was given perfect expression in ronald reagan's first inaugural address in 1981 when he said, government is not the solution to our problems. government is the problem. they're convinced that anything government does from medicare and social security onward is a problem. >> bring this back to health care reform and today. what is the lesson we can apply from that reagan 61 armey '09 view of medicare to the overall picture of reforming health care now? >> well, the lesson actually is what you and lawrence were talking about a little while ago. this is the democrats need to stop appeasing republicans. believing that somehow they're going to be able to give up

enough to bring them along. you know, on "the meet press" again yesterday one senator knead very clear when gregory asked him, if the public option were not there would you and your friends sign up? he said, you know, there are also the 87 government programs that are there that include 150 federal employees. so here we are, you know, keith. there isn't enough anybody can give up. you can give up the public option. you can give up 50 government programs and they're still not going to be happy. then here's what's going to happen. something is going to pass. it's not going to be real reform but reform in name only. it's not going to work and then they're going to turn around and blame it on government because they will -- there will have been some government in it. >> close this off for me. before the conversation got turned elsewhere yesterday rachel was saying it was very important for americans to understand that the antireform lobby also opposes medicare and

social security. finish her thought if you would and explain why. >> well, it is very important to understand, because then you understand that they are truly the lunatic fringe. they are the people who oppose anything because their philosophy is that we need to make government so small that you can drowned it in a bath tub. that's really what we're dealing with. and it doesn't matter how much we give up. ultimately, if the government is involved in any way at all, which it would have to be, they would be opposing it or they would drowned it so much that they can then oppose it as another failure of government. >> everything since 1929 has been an encroachment. arianna huffington of "the huffington post" as always, great thanks. >> thank you. also, apple parking day or night. people spouting howdy neighbor. but mostly in this case the ample parking part. they met to do that. the first couple were just symbolic.

number 6 through 10 were more serious. now a number of advertisers who have canceled has reached at least 20 and includes cvs and walmart. worst persons ahead on "countdown."

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the public option is under attack and while one democrat in the senate says it's dead there, another in the house says, the bill will be if there's no public option in it. our third story on the "countdown" the republicans suddenly begin tongue the odds are in their favor. even nate silver from 538.com confirms there is ample reason for democrats to be worried, perhaps deeply so, about 2010. governor howard dean weighing in on that and the public option and joins me presently. first plenty of red meat on the menu for an audience of republicans. state legislators and go-pacs next generation dinner. tim pawlenty raising his own

profile in addition to the possibility of a republican rival, revival rather saying the debate on health care reform may be just what the gop needs. quote, it appears president obama is making great progress on climate change. he's changing the political climate in the country back to republican. that is considered wit. we need to be calling out the flaws and misguided decisions of the democrats in congress and the obama administration. the dems facing what nate silver calls significant enthusiasm gap, likely will lose in the house and senate seats at least, nothing new considering as silver reminds us the party that wins the white house almost always loses a good number of seats at the mid terms. silver also notes with wild card issues like health care the dems are in the realm of possibility of losing control of the house next year opting out of the public option could be what sends the democrats over the edge. silver puts the solid senate votes for the public option at just 43 or 41 if do you not include ted kennedy and dianne feinstein. is the public option really dead he writes? probably. perhaps the better question is whether the public option was

ever really alive. former vermont governor howard dean, himself a doctor, former chair of the democratic party, now a consultant at mckenna and aldridge llp as well as democracy for america and contributor to cnbc. thanks for coming on again. >> thanks for having me. getting to be a regular show here. >> we have a lot to talk about. where is the public option right now? >> i think in much better shape than people think. the republicans have made it really clear, i love that senator grassley today, they say, well the public option is dead. can you vote for the bill? he hemmed and hawed and said even if it's a good bill i'm not sure i can sell it. there won't be a single republican vote. they're just not going to do it. i don't care what's in it. the vast majority of democrats know including the president i think that you can't have real health care reform without giving the american people a choice between a public and a private option. and i think that it's going to pass and i think it'll have a public option and it'll be on the president's desk in december. >> but right now, i mean, our

friend nate is not exactly bad in his number crunching over the years. he counts 43 possibly as low as 41 firm votes supporting public option in the senate and we have anthony weiner's remarks that a hundred house democrats are willing to walk away if it is not in the bill. we know the letter was signed by 57 of them. is this not the rock and the hard place mathematically? >> yeah. they'll get through this. look. the senate is a complicated place but the majority of democrats want a public option. the blue dogs have signed off on a public option. they need to do that because it's what the american people want. at the end of the day that's what we'll have to have. what you're seeing now is a bit of the old democratic party. when i got to washington as chair of the dnc, the new chair of the dnc, i found the democrats thinking if they were only a little more like the republicans they'd win things. that is a fatal way to go. you lose your base. you get people to have a lack of enthusiasm as nate silver was talking about, who i think is

one of the very smartest political analysts in the country today, and the other smart political analyst is bill clinton that says, you wait. the president is going to sign a bill and his numbers are going to go right back up again and i think that's exactly what's going to happen. >> i'm not doubting, even though i said earlier i was doubting the president i'm certainly not doubting president clinton's acumen and i'm not doubting yours. i'd just like to know a little more of what the silver lining is. is there some strategy the rest of us aren't seeing at the moment? >> no. i don't think there is a strategy. i think there's a little fear. you get out there, you get beat up by all these right wingers, tea bag people and all that kind of stuff, and you just think, well, maybe. this is a hangover from the old days. remember how gun shy the democrats were? they couldn't wait to send us to iraq. they all voted for bush's tax cuts or a lot of them did. you have to stand up and mean something. i think the president is better off saying, look. here's what we're going to do and how. he believes you need to be bipartisan. i think it would be great but first of all being bipartisan is not worth being bipartisan to have a lousy bill.

and second of all, the republicans never had any intention of being bipartisan so let's get our bill on and do what franklin roosevelt did. let's pass the program. people are going to be very happy with it. and this will all be forgotten and we'll pick up seats in the fall of 2010 just like franklin roosevelt did. >> all right. but some advice to those of us who would agree with you that the public option is the hinge of any reform bill. without it, it really isn't reform. it is a thing that puts the pressure on the insurance industry. it is the thing that will benefit the most number of people other than inclusiveness for overall health care. what do those of us who are dismayed by recent events like this past weekend, how best do we apply positive pressure to get the right outcome? i don't mean against the republicans. i mean towards democrats. >> well, at the risk of gross self-promotion, get my book "howard dean." i tell you why. it's now on iphone. you get the iphone you cannot only read the book but use it to send your congressman all kinds of e-mails, sign up for that and

mobilize yourself. people have to get mobilized. we elected president obama by going door to door. this campaign is not over. that was the beginning of change in america not the end. we've got to mobilize ourselves and make sure people understand that the best thing you can possibly do is allow people under 65 the same choice that people over 65 have. let people sign up for a public program. it's more efficient. you don't get kicked off. you don't get charged more if you're sick. it's a good program. if you like your insurance and about 65% of the american people who have insurance like it a lot, they can keep it and they should. this is a hybrid system. it makes sense. the choice of reform is left up to the individual american people. there is nothing more american than letting the american people decide and no democrat should be afraid of pushing that because we're right and they're wrong. >> governor howard dean, former head of the dnc, whose bookas veil bl in book, kindle, audio, now iphone app and i believe soon in liquid form. great thanks.

>> thanks. other would-be candidates ask friends, look at polls, and have focus groups. she says she'll decide whether to run for president based on a while you were out message from god. and, yes, you're in a public school in the united states of america and as of the beginning of the impending school year you have to take a class about the bible. and when rachel joins you at the top of the hour she'll dissect the next army -- no, a brain slip -- the next actions of dick arm knee the astroturf movement against health care reform. yeah. perfect 10 -- the 10 minute phenomenon from nice 'n easy. rich color, stunning high gloss, and flawless gray coverage all in just 10 minutes. a breakthrough so big, it won the most awards from beauty editors they even say... "perfect 10 has forever changed our opinion of at-home color." has it changed yours yet? perfect 10. the 10 minute, high gloss color that changes everything. from clairol.

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the way the stock market's been acting lately you may wonder if you've been doing the right thing. is the advice you've been getting helping or hurting? are the fees you're paying really worth it? td ameritrade's fees are fair and straight-forward. their research is independent and unbiased. their investment consultants are knowledgeable and there when you need them. so why not talk to one? announcer: call today to schedule a free investment check-up, or visit a td ameritrade branch. call it dancing with the exterminators. can tom delay also rig the voting on a network reality dance show? senator tom coburn says american politicians deserve threats even physical ones they've been getting apparently forgetting he is an american poll tipgs. the good news glenn beck loses walmart, cvs, travelocity. the number of advertisers bailing out hits 20. ...or if you lose your job.

your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on.

tomorrow dlai on "dancing with the stars." michelle "joan of arc" bachman on hearing messages from god about whether she should run for president. glenn beck, gmac financial services, or walmart, or cvs, or by best buy. today they and four other firms have increased to at least 20 the number of advertisers who have dropped out of sponsoring his program after beck called the president racist with a deep

seeded hatred of white people. our runner-up senator tom coburn lost in the dick armey fun on "meet the press" this bit of insanity from the gentleman from oklahoma. david gregory asked him about the tone of the health care debate specifically referencing death threats, nazi references, the water the tree of liberty quote. coburn says i'm troubled any time we stop having confidence in our government but we've earned it. this debate isn't the health care. health care is the symptom. the debate is an uncontrolled federal government that's going to run 50% of everything we're spending this year. we're borrowing from the next generation. it was from a state in which a man named timothy mcveigh was arrested wearing one of those god damned water the tree liberty shirts. mr. coburn should be impeached. our winners the texas state school board. as the new school year begins from marshall to midland it will be mandatory that all texas public schools offer information in their curriculum about the bible. a law passed two years ago for implementation this school year.

there it is. mandatory religious education in the public schools for believers, unbelievers, those of other faiths, believers who believe in the separation of church and state, doesn't matter. so this request to texas. please? the state school board there in the great theocratic nation of texas today's worst person in the world. frites perhaps a night at the theater with extra special seats additional hotel night, our treat your world in perfect harmony: priceless look for world on your mastercard to get rewards and offers that matter to you. ever wonder how cheez-it bakes... so much real cheese in such small bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know.

cheez-it. the big cheese. i felt amazingly boxed in. (announcer) joe uses the contour meter from bayer. (joe) my meter absolutely adapts to me and my lifestyle. i'm joe james, and being outside of the box is my simple win. (announcer) now available in five vibrant colors.

ever heard a voice telling you to run for president? ever heard another voice telling you to go down to the cvs while not wearing pants? our number one story on the "countdown" congressman michelle bachman hears voices that enable her to dance around the idea of running for president. on a different career trajectory tom delay will soon appear on "dancing with the stars." that is a pun. ms. bachman first. worldnet daily asked her in an exclusive interview whether she might one day want to run for the presidency and her answer,

if i felt that's what the lord was calling me to do i would do it. when i have sensed the lord is calling me to do something i've said yes but i will not seek a higher office if god is not calling me to do it. that's really my standard. if i am called to serve in that realm i would do it but if not called i wouldn't do it. call collect. we know mr. delay got a call to dance. the new york times described it as a show where the contestants are usually athletes and entertainers most of them heading toward professional obscurity or looking for a boost in their careers. not having reached that point but only this one the "countdown" stage of one's career here's paul tomkins, comedian. good evening. resolve this one for me from the get-go. george bush hears god telling him to run for president or invade iraq and michelle bachman anticipates hearing god tell her to run for president or not. she'll base her decision on that. if you hear a voice telling you that you're the next center fielder in the yankees, they send you to a hotel room with rubber walls. why the difference?

>> yeah. i guess people only take people's word for it when it's god right? like i guess they're afraid to make a wrong call in that department? they want to give god the benefit of the doubt because it's sort of like you're saying god's a liar i suppose if you call somebody crazy for saying god talked to them. it is very old testament. i'm hoping it's in michelle bachman's case it might be one of those abraham like tricks where god tells her to run for president and at the last minute says no don't. that was just a test. >> and still in this world of the birthers and the death eaters, there have been stranger things than michelle bachman running for president when and if she hears a voice in her head, have there not? >> well, if you suppose that there are stranger things than michelle bachman running for president you need to go back to supposing school because there aren't. i think that no matter what god tells her, the capabilities of crack pots to mobilize on that grand a scale i think will be sorely tested.

>> i don't know. again, i'm getting something in here telling me i am the next center fielder for the yankees not you so i'm heading up to the stadium right now to get my uniform. this unintentionally humorous lead on ms. bachman from worldnet daily that described her as, quote, one of the leading defenders of liberty and conservative principles on capitol hill. this was the same person who thought the americorp her son joined was, quote, reeducation camps and doesn't want anybody to fill out the census because it could be some sort of implant in your brain or something. what would her signature issue be? >> well, she might try to improve america's relations with north america. >> good. >> i don't know. i think she might tell people, you know, look. you don't like being told what to do but you do like being told what to think so i'm your candidate. >> and my running mate, the invisible man standing next to me. let's go look at mr. delay. this guy was pushed out of the house, charged with conspiracy.

campaign finance violations. so the dance thing would be like a step up from where he is right now, correct? >> yes, well, the word disgraced, does it not mean anything anymore? why do we bother having words if they just don't have a meaning anymore? like how are they going to get around like the idea of how he's famous on "dancing with the stars?" are they going to mention the disenfranchisement of black voters in texas or kind of gloss over that? >> that raises the point of how he'll win right? he'll just redistrict any of the other voters who, or judges who might vote for the other pseudo celebrities? >> well, you know, i think especially in texas they always just vote for the football player. >> oh, and he's up against another one, michael irvin this time. that's the end of the road right there. comedian paul tompkins still a been rather than a has. thanks for being that and for

being with us tonight. >> god bless you, keith. >> that's "countdown" for this the 2,300th day since the previous president declared mission accomplished in iraq. i'm keith olbermann. that's the news. good night. now having destroyed dick armey she will like the ancient warriors consume the carcass to gain its strength. ladies and gentlemen, here is rachel maddow. >> good evening, keith. could we please bottle that and use it when i need a little lift? >> yeah. it'll age well as has the original version. >> thank you very much, keith. appreciate that. thanks to you for staying with us for the next hour. we begin tonight actually with news that is both good news and unsettling news from wall street. the dow overall lost about 186 points today. now, that is not catastrophic or anything but it's one of those days where the market closing

gets described as sharply lower. now, despite the market being down, the unsettling good news from wall street today? it comes from "the new york times" market spotlight on today's most actively traded stocks. four of the eight most traded stocks in america today were giants in the health business. pfizer, aetna, united health, wyeth and all four had great days today as the rest of the market slumped. why was today such a good day to be a stockholder in say united health? well, here's a hint. >> i think what's important is choice and competition and i'm convinced that at the end of the day the plan will have both of those but that is not the essential element. >> the bottom line for this for the president is what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market. >> the public option whether we have it or we don't have it is not the entirety of health care reform. this is just one sliver