able, pre-existing conditions, all those things are there. the question is whether the will and political disposition is there any longer when you've got these liberals in an uproar, conservatives got a bit in their teeth because of town hall meetings where folks basically agree with them. it's going to be an interesting september, joe. you being up on the hill you can see how on paper you can get a bill. then you take a look at emotions and anger and rage involved and you wonder if this thing is not going to come apart. >> it doesn't add up now. mika, what's so fascinating about this bill unlike so many other bills, that, well, it's not even a bill. there are a variety of bills. you talk about public options and co-ops and start drilling down and asking people what it means, they don't know what it means. everybody has chosen sides. it's not just republicans against democrats. it's liberals against

progressives against moderates versus blue dogs. people are fighting -- i see this every day. people are fighting and screaming and yelling about things they know very little about, which is fascinating. an expert on that, willie geist. >> knowing very little. >> an expert. by the way, i'm wearing a tie for your guy. >> did you hear about that? >> no, willie wears a tie and good things happen. >> not to me, for the viewers. >> mika, let's go through news. we have a lot of polls. a leading democrat out there saying he's not going to vote for the health care plan. it's exciting. pat buchanan, our main main in washington, d.c. time for a look at top stories, breaking news out of afghanistan. officials in kabul say a bomb has exploded on the road leading to the largest u.s. base in the country.

the suicide attack killed at least three civilians and set several vehicles on fire. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in afghanistan and brings us the very latest. richard, what can you tell us? >> reporter: mika, i'm at the scene of that blast right now. it is on the eastern edge of kabul. it is apparently a british military convoy targeted by the taliban. the taliban has claimed responsibility for the attack. right now i've been seeing british miller vehicles going back and forth between nato bases and the site of the blast. there are many soldiers and police here pushing back the crowds, trying to create space. taliban has said it would carry out a series of attacks leading up to elections on thursday. so far they have been doing just that. >> all right. richard engel. thanks very much. in other news this morning, federal prosecutors say a federal government informant is behind the largest case of cyber crime ever prosecuted in u.s.

history. albert gonzalez, along with two russian accomplices allegedly hacked into retail databases. they made off with 330 debit and credit card numbers over two years. gonzalez has been in custody for months awaiting trial on a separate case. federal officials say millions of swine flu vaccines will not be ready by mid october as preditd. the government is blaming the delay on manufacturing issues and is extending the effort to get people at the highest risk vaccinated early. the white house is working to assure allies president obama is not abandoning the fight for public health insurance, the public health insurance option. several democrats suggested without the option, the president could lose their support for the large ereform bill. >> the house of representatives without a strong public plan, even stronger than the one we reported out of committee, i think it would have a very hard

time getting 218 votes. look, the president has to lead on this. has he to say very clearly a public option is important, that we hold these insurance company accountable and provide some competition. i would love to be the one carrying the ball for him. unless he says a public option is the way to go, i'm going to be a no and so will other people. >> he'll be on our show later this morning. new data suggests the nation's mortgage crisis may be easing, although the delinquency rate on loans has an all-time high last quarter. slowed significantly, aimed at programs may be taking hold. a new survey by the cdc show people that play video games are more prone to depression and obesity. at an average age of 35, they are also older than assumed. they are found to be more willing to sacrifice real world social activities to play video games. >> which is why t.j. is not with

us. >> even when he's with us. >> i used to say, yea, he's going to disney land. he's a gamer now. >> he goes to disney land online. >> online. two times i found out his wife told me when he goes to disney land, he stays in the hotel room, the motel 6 down there in kissimmee and plays video games. exactly. exactly. >> there's not a lot of value in that. i don't think so. >> they are. >> i swear. i haven't played -- >> have you played call of duty? >> no. i don't have one but if i did i'd play a call of duty. >> i haven't played a video game. i hope i don't get you upset. that thing pacman. >> quack quack. >> you put money in.

>> i seriously thought you were going to say steroids and i was going to leave. >> okay. >> call of duty. my kids played it over christmas. it's fun stuff. >> they can teach me. hurricane bill now a category two. nbc meteorologist rafael here with the very latest. rafael, good morning. >> good morning, guys. we're still watching the tropics on this tuesday. not as active as yesterday with three named storms. we're down to one, claudette and ana have dissipated over the past 24 hours. hurricane bill is a powerful one. a category two storm well out in the open waters of the atlantic, packing winds of 100 miles an hour. the movement to the west northwest of 17 miles an hour. as you take a look at that forecast path for bill, the good news is we're not expecting any landfall for the u.s. but expected to strengthen to a category three storm over the next 24 to 36 hours, then bermuda is going to be on edge as this one edges close towards

the weekend. probably dealing with a lot of high surf in the northeast. speaking of the northeast, satellite radar picture quiet. it is a quiet and mugds start in places like new york city. 73 in boston. back into the 90s, another steamy day for tuesday, full affect 95 in hartford. heat indexes close to 100 degrees in many spots. heat advisories in effect across the midwest, watching for storms detroit, chicago, st. louis. watch for airport delays. those storms extend all the way to the gulf. for the west coast looking good. lots of sunshine in california. back to you guys. >> rafael, thank you very much. >> i'm ready for it to be 50 degrees and raining. >> haven't had much of a summer. >> one month basically. >> all right, willie. >> let's talk about more escalating rhetoric in the health care debate. last week we spent a lot of time talking about these town hall meetings. the white house accused these people of being operatives,

special interest groups on the conservative side. we heard nancy pelosi saying un-american, conservatives talking about death panels. in an interview with our friends at "huffington post" yesterday, congressman nadler, jerry nadler said this. >> conservatives. >> people showing up at the meetings. so comparing is to weimar, germany. escalating again with nazi rhetoric. >> again a movement that killed 6 million jews. that's just stunning to me. just throwing fascist around.

this follows a long string of them, willie. >> we're going to talk about both sides here. we're calling shrill language here. on the liberal side, nancy pelosi calling protesters un-american. harry reid calling opponents of health care evil mongers. nadler saying fascist. pelosi calling insurance companies "the real villains." the conservative side, sarah palin saying obama's death panel down right evil. chuck grassley saying every right to fear death panels. a congressman from georgia saying this is a steam roller of socialism. john boehner last month saying government-encouraged euthenasia included in the health care plan. we heard that echoed from newt gingrich as well. pat buchanan, the splilness in this debate just escalating, now you have nadler talking

about fascism. >> let me tell you, i just did a column and i have polls out. this is insanity on liberal democrats. 64% of moderates say the protesters are behaving appropriately and 40% of democrats say that. and by almost two to one, people who know about the protesters identify with them, not against them. joe, there's a story today about a congressman in the neighboring district, congressman boyd. he held three town hall meetings. he said obviously they are really in their face. he said they are wonderful meetings. these are not organized by k street or rnc. if you get three town hall meetings he held. he's going to hold a number of others. this is middle america coming out really upset and angry with what's going on in washington, d.c. it's got to do not only with health care but the government takeover of automobiles, of wall street, of everything.

>> you know, mika, the problem for democrats, they will say republicans are doing this, too. what the republicans are doing are even worse. >> right. >> the problem is that democrats who are running washington, d.c. it's democrats who are going to be judged by how they control power. it's democrats who seem to me to be messing things up as badly as republicans did over the past four years or so on domestic issues especially. we have a speaker of the house calling companies immoral and villains and calling protesters un-american. when you have harry reid, the person running the united states senate calling people that oppose his bills evil, evil mongers. we have jerry nadler and others talking about fascism in america and tactics being fascist. this is a democratic party out of control. john boehner is not going to be

judged. he's not running anything. republicans have already proven they can't run congress. now it's the democrats turn and they are screwing things up. i can't believe how ferocious this language is. >> it's also not necessarily. i mean, seriously, they could have sat back, just like you advised the republicans to do and let the republicans destroy themselves. instead it looks like a ridiculous free for all. >> the problem is, it's only hurting the democratic party. >> and health care reform. >> just like the radical comments from the far right are only hurting republicans. so when we come back, we're going to have new jersey governor jon corzine, also congressman anthony winger of new york. he says health care reform doesn't have a chance without a public option. if you see chief foreign correspondent andrea mitchell is going to be with us. >> best selling suspense novelist joe finder. >> you say finder i say finder.

also a big article on "the daily beast." later, i'm very excited about this, actor sir ben kingsley will join us. >> also a poll on people's ideology, conservative or liberal the gallup poll put out. a pretty big finding. first an exclusive look at politico's top stories. keep it on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. my guys brush their teeth like they clean their room.

i'm glad anticavity listerine® smart rinse™ attracts stuff like a magnet, then shows it in the sink. ewww. gross. cool! (announcer) listerine® smart rinse™. save, visit sterinekids.com ♪ now create your own look with my new line miley cyrus & max azria only at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. (announcer) side effects were generally mild and included headache. viral infection, sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and save up to $15 off your refills.

go to nasonex.com for details, terms and conditions.

i don't know about this. did you see hillary clinton videotaping in africa at a press conference and somebody asked her something and she gets angry. now they are talking to her husband bill clinton who said he

had not seen the press conference, seen the videotape of the press conference. i thought, i bet this guy has a pretty good idea of what hillary is like when she's angry. >> 1999 all over again. >> it was the anniversary. a look at the morning playbook, good morning, jim. >> good morning. >> start off by going fascist. >> exactly. >> un-american fascist. >> you hate america. >> say it for no reason. >> you want to kill granny. jim, can you believe -- i mean, you and i went through a lot of harsh stuff in the 1990s with the takeover, the government shutdown, impeachment, even 2000 recount. no one was running around calling other people fascist or not. can you believe the level of rhetoric among these children? >> i actually can. it was a nasty fight i recall.

health care is a very easy issue to demagogue and both sides are fired up. what's most surprising about this recess, i think obama went home thinking conservative democrats are going to come back antsy because of what happens in the town halls. now everybody will come back antsy. democrats are afraid public option will be dropped and they are just as fur reduce as republicans on the right and the middle. >> the white house went on the sunday shows and saying we're willing to abandon the public option as you said. there's outcry from the left, republicans won't vote for it, now democrats say they won't vote for it. what does that leave us with? >> i still think he can get a bill. you've got to keep in mind, what happens in the senate finance committee. can they get a bill, get chuck grassley and a couple of republicans on board. it's possible but difficult in this political environment. you have conservative democrats coming back and try to start

over and doing a more incremental approach. that doesn't help obama. he doesn't want to do this incrementally, he wants to do it in one big bill. people are showing opposition on the left and right. >> we say republicans don't like the bill. there are some elements of the republican party that do like the bill. who is that? >> drug companies who cut this deal with the white house. typically the pharmaceutical industry has backed republicans with their money. they have backed obama on this bill because they have cut a deal that will limit their exposure as part of the health care reform movement. this has really ticked off republicans. johns hopkins boehner runs the house of republicans, send off a nasty weather saying you cut a deal with the devil and you're nuts to do it, leaving other people holding the bag because of your own selfishness. shows tension inside the business community, inside the republican party about what to do. at the end of the day looking to protect your own self-interest if you're looking from a corporate perspective. final topic on the playbook,

i understand the secret service patrolling somewhere around hyannis port. >> there's talk he'll try to visit president kennedy, get over there, see the senator. the senator has not been part of health care negotiations at all. the reports we hear he's too sick. they want to get together. it would be a good moment for the president and kennedy. >> thanks so much. we'll read politico.com for the rest of the playbook all day long. >> certainly our thoughts and prayers are with ted kennedy and the family right now. just a difficult, difficult time for him. he always tells barnacle about this show, like he fell in butter. sounds good to me. butter.

that's comfort. back when butter actually -- >> not good for you. no butter anymore. >> i put it on my cereal. >> no, no, no. coming up. "the daily beast." tina brown joins us. headlines out of the white house. savannah guthrie. we'll be right back with "morning joe." i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. gathering dust, as pollen floats through the air. but with the strength of zyrtec ® , the fastest, 24-hour allergy relief, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride.

with zyrtec ® i can love the air ™ . concierge claim centers. so i can just drop off my car and you'll take care of everything? yep, even the rental. what if i'm stuck at the office? if you can't come to us, we'll come to you in one of our immediate response vehicles! what if mother won't let me drive? then you probably wouldn't have had an accident in the first place. and we're walkin'! and we're walkin'... making it all a bit easier -- now that's progressive! call or click today.

live chopper shot for you. really don't know where that is. all right. good morning, welcome back to "morning joe." any idea, joe. >> schenectady. >> just before 6:30 on the east coast. >> could be binghamton. >> they could tell us. that would be helpful. a look at today's top stories. officials in kabul afghanistan say a bomb exploded on the road leading to the largest u.s. base in the country. the suicide attack killed at least three civilians and

wounded three u.n. staff workers. it comes amid a new wave of violence ahead of the country's presidential election on thursday. protesters at the university of california berkeley are calling for the firing of law professor john yew. the former bush administration official co-wrote legal memos critics say were used to testify the torture of suspected terrorist. >> this guy couldn't give a speech at columbia because he was shouted down. i didn't hear jerry nadler accusing liberals of engaging in fascist comments. >> did he say that? >> no. nor every time pat buchanan has been shouted down. >> aarp say 60,000 senior citizens have quit the organization since early july over the support for a health care overhaul. with 40 million members, the spokesman says it's not unusual

to see big drop-offs when the group is dealing with a controversial issue. that's a look at the morning news, now a look at the morning papers. >> "washington post," u.s. withdrawal, troops forced to leave a year ahead of schedule. that would be great news for the troops and us. >> "new york times," alternate plan and health option, muddy debate. also in the "times," a training course for the u.s. >> 20-year-old miami native stole 130 million credit card numbers. >> that's also the top story in the "miami herald." hacker accused of record data theft. usa today, blocked the cobra, subsidy paying 65% of cost has led to double enrollment. all right. willie. what do you have? rag or are you saving that for later? >> one i want to show you.

talking about it. my affair with bernie madeoff. the coverage, madoff's other secret. >> yuck. >> "washington post" -- "new york times." >> dr. o no. wobbles on health care plan. >> anthony weiner, one of those new york congressmen says he's not voting for the bill if there's not a public option. he'll be with us. coming up, "the daily beast," tina brown and mika's must-read opinion pages. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. does your mouthwash work in six different ways? introducing listerine total care. everything you need...

to strengthen teeth, help prevent cavities, and kill germs. introducing 6 in 1 listerine total care. the most complete mouthwash. - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.

while visiting the grand canyon, barack obama shouted hello and heard his echo say this. keep your stinking government out of health care. i want my america back. go back to russia, you hippy pinko. >> this has been "camping up with barack obama." >> a weird echo. what do you hear back from the echo at the grand canyon. >> let's bring editor in chief of "the daily beast" tina brown. >> good morning. >> of course pat buchanan is with us. pat, richard cohen has written an op-ed just for you. we're going to have you respond. >> okay. palin's red menace talks about what he calls palinism.

you can beat the bushes to a fine powder and find two republicans of note, senators johnny isaacson and lisa >> pat. >> ingenuity has run for president, he's got himself out there on the edge, so has sarah palin. i will say this, joe and mika, the so-called death panels, the end of life counseling, that part of the bill is gone. it went out just like that, because of the enormous controversy.

frankly, sarah palin was the one that brought attention to 1233, the number in the bill. but the democrats immediately dropped the thing. so i think it was over the top rhetoric. but there ain't any doubt about it that it succeeded. >> what surprises me about this, let's continue, and i'm going to ask you a follow-up question about what your main man richard nixon would do. >> sadly the list includes john mccain who fashioned her out of political desperation and has yet to whittle her down to size. whenever he praises palin, his own nose grows. as with mccarthyism, palinism is a sign of the times. >> with the primaries you go to the right, general you go to the middle. the problem with palin, the problem with beginning relationship, the problem with

all these people running around accusing people of being nazis, being involved in death panels is they are going so far right that even people like myself, who are considered bedrock conservatives, even people who voted for me overwhelmingly in '94, think these people are so far right they have lost their minds. >> i will say this, i think both newt gingrich and palin could get 50% of the country. i'm a great admirer of sarah palin. but i'll tell you if you dropped her into the iowa caucuses, straw poll, she would burn everybody on the right. >> i would say that six months ago, but it's not true now. she is so minimizing herself. i'm just saying i talk to republicans. i went to tuscaloosa, alabama,

about as conservative as it is as a favor to bob riley, a guy i helped get into politics, they are giving him a big award at the end. my speech to them was come on, come on, you have got to call out these people talking about death panel and naziism. guess what, that got applause, that got standing ovations. republicans are not the caricature that ironically sarah palin and newt gingrich say now. >> the energy. america is such a sullen mood. there's kind of a big hangover in the country. >> the extremes are. but that's what i'm saying, pat, though. she ain't going to burn up iowa anymore. >> let me ask you, if she walked into some of these town hall meetings of 1,000, 1500 or 3,000 and got up there and took apart this health care bill. >> yeah. >> i think it would bring them out of their chairs. >> first of all she's not

capable of doing that right now. i know i'm doing to get in trouble. what republicans say behind closed doors because she doesn't read enough. she goes off, she shoots off her mouth. she doesn't know what she's talking about. she speaks in generalities. she's done what she should not have done after she lost the vice presidency. she's gone home and thinks she can keep shooting from the hip. first of all she can't do that. that's why she says things about death panels. secondly, again, sick months ago she would have burned it up. i told you my mother in love with sarah palin, now i do home and my mom says why doesn't she just keep her head down. i'm hearing that from republicans in tuscaloosa, republicans across america. pat, it's important to remember rush limbaugh and everybody else tried to destroy john mccain. i didn't want john mccain to win the nomination because i didn't think he was conservative enough. guess what, john mccain won the

nomination anyway. playing to the hard, hard, hard right base will not win primaries. don't you agree. >> look, i agree -- i think palin could get into finals. i basically agree with this but look at this. the red hot radio stuff. look where the country is, three of the top four best selling books on the "new york times" list, mark levin, dick morris, number one best seller on the paper back, glen beck, orielle number ten there. the country is in an angry populist mood. the bumper stickers, death panels, it's not sophisticated, but i'll tell you what is igniting these people, they have simple ideas and they are angry. >> sure, pat. the same thing igniting people on the left that said there was

no god. you can read in 2003, 2004, god is dead. the god delusion, all a reaction to george w. bush, it's very natural. it will sell books, drive up ratings. it will not win elections. willie, we've got the nadler comment i'd love tina to respond to there. >> this is jerry nadler with the "washington post" yesterday talking about tactics used. he said by conservatives groups to disrupt town hall meetings. he said, quote, it is fascist. it is a fascist tactic. that's exactly what they did in weimar, germany. it's a fascist tactic not to disagree with you or to say but to try to shut you up. >> it's part of the theater of american life. i don't actually agree that passionate, crazy town halls -- seems to me i'd rather see people come out and protest and do what they want to do than sit

there -- at least let them come out and air it. cable tv is going to always be there to slam up that moment and make it more exciting. >> you don't think these peoples are fascist, do you? >> no, i don't. there is a lot of nutty french stuff going on now. i think it's such a sullen mood. people are full of free floating rage right now. they are looking to point their anger at what is out there. they are now coming out against health care, which is actually what everybody wants. they want better health care, but to oorg nice republicans around defeat. >> if people feel that way, is that the backdrop then under which sarah palin has an impact and have her words, whether we like it or not have an impact on -- >> sara on the right, on the left nancy pelosi calling people that come to town hall meetings un-american. >> about the big void on the

right. she's colorful. she is effective, i have to say it, coming up with a catchy phrase that everybody writes with. >> how much of an impact did it have? >> it had an effect. but i think she's still a kind of interim figure. we're in the middle, this is very early days before the next election. i think by that time sarah palin will have totally blown herself off. >> what you say in the town meetings, this is more powerful than the anti-immigration reform thing of '97 which just about killed mccain. these people are the swing votes. >> sure they are. >> pennsylvania democrats who voted for hillary against obama, voted against him in west virginia but moved toward him and gave him a chance. now they are moving away from him. if the republicans have got to find a way to get not only their solid conservative, responsible base but to bring these people back together because they are an in dispensable element if you're going to win the presidency. >> as i was saying, any

democrats that believes these are strictly republicans out here weren't around in '93 and '94. i've seen these people. these are not republicans. these are united we stand people, and they look identical to people that came to my ral rallies in '94. they wear the -- let me make my point, then you can respond. the interesting thing is they supported me and loved me until i got elected, then i was a republican, and then they turned on me. they wonder -- >> are we overemphasizing their importance. the left became incredibly energized and got obama in. now they have kind of gone back to work, gone back to their own lives. there wasn't a great deal of passion at the root. as a matter of fact i thought bill clinton was probably the most effective.

the way he came back when he was attacked about gays in the military was really amazing. it made me wish still he was out there selling health care because i think he would be really good at it. >> how is barack obama doing in your opinion, handling the challenges. >> i think he's done too much at the 10,000 feet pr. he hasn't attacked it in the right way. without announcing big dramatic sweeping reforms. once you say that you just terrify everybody. if you take reforms one at a time during the presidency, i think it would have been a more effective way at the end to aggregate the health care. >> stay with us. because when we come back, i want to ask you whether bill clinton should fly from martha's vineyard and give advice to

barack obama. >> coming up in a few minutes, we have merge governor jon corzine. first willie's news you can't use. freddie ball game with sports. we'll be right back. hey mom i need some minutes.

i just gave you some at the restaurant. yea i know. i threw them out. they were old so... old! they are rollover minutes. they are as good as new. ya know not everyone gets to keep their unused minutes. and these days we can't afford to be wasteful. saving minutes... ...saves money. yea. (announcer) only at&t's family talk with rollover saves your family's unused minutes. and saving minutes saves money. for back to school, get the lg neon for $29.99 after mail-in rebate. it's what ctors recommend9 most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever.

when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. (announcer) side effects were generally mild and included headache. viral infection, sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and save up to $15 off your refills. go to nasonex.com for details, terms and conditions.

we're maybe one flying guy away from brand-new super france, one that can rival power heroes from the late '70s before being eaten by brian williams. that's right. that's where our rival was born. flying guy we need you. >> the williams is hungry. >> i don't know what that means but ien joyed it. time for sports. fred rogin has the same taping schedule as oprah, works nine months and three off for the summer but he's back. here is fred with sports. >> thank you and good morning. it's often said injuries ar part of the game. what the mets are going through right now is simply

unexplainable. four of their stars on the dl including all-star david wright. trying to stay relevant despite health injuries they pummeled new york. beat mets 10-1, trailed colorado by a game in the wild car. to los angeles big matchup cards and dodgers fourth inning. pujols in and sent the knuckleball pitch into the left stands, 39th of the year. held on to win 3-2. al wild card head at boston. two runs scored, texas won 8-5. yanks in the 8th oakland doing their damage in the fourth. mark ellis capped a three-run inning. harrison scored. suffered second loss in seven games. oakland won 3-0. all right. now, i do not know how good the raiders are going to be this year but i wouldn't want to fight coaches. we learned head coach tom table

punched out assistant randy hanson and broke his jaw. in case you don't realize this, that's called assault and press charges. he didn't, though. bottom line, head coach will put up a good fight. final play, regulation, carolina fourth string quarterback hunter cantwell setting up for the hail mary. but the prayer is answered for the other thing. cantwell's arm hit, giants grabbed the ball from the air. there he goes, 18 yards, time expired. it may be the preseason but no doubt our finish. giants won 24-17. years ago budweiser came up with a marvelous tag line. this bud is for you. i'm not sure the beer was bud but meant for the recipients. who can forget what happened at the wrigley's field. a fan in the bleachers decided to throw a full cup of beer on victorino who still made the grab despite the unexpected shower. fans never learn because a player from the australian football league was a victim of

a copy cat beer thrower. brad johnson of the western bulldogs drenched after a woman hurled the frosty beverage. she surrendered to the authorities. if you watch closely she committed the act while talking on the phone. i'm fred rogin. >> great to have fred back. >> it is. >> we have an e-mail. >> what have you got? >> chris, can you -- there's a couple coming in about -- >> really fired up. from indiana. good morning. wow. joe is looking so dapper, depp nair. i must know, hair product, how does he keep his hair perfect. you better tell us right now. >> the brilo pad. >> hot. wow. >> the dummy patch pr. >> bordering on. >> that's nice. thanks, indiana. >> i'm very uncomfortable.

coming up next, news you can't use, "dancing with the stars" contestants have been revealed. yes, there is a former -- >> now i'm uncomfortable. >> yachts this. tom delay in heeled dancing shoes when we come back. when i was seventeen summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just one week. do-overs do exist. (announcer) total skin renewal neutrogena. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t.

with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t.

rrd d oun's fastest 3g network. naing onon ud r. weotototatatininci on us cars for everybody anont cfidedence ininin o. caususususlendnds s ve a a a t tcks. ququq n

.

we're going to work through this first story together. we don't quite know what to make of it. the list of contestants for "dancing with the stars" was released yesterday. among the contestants, the hammer. former house majority leader tom delay. >> m.c. hammer. >> no, not m.c. hammer. i wish. that would be more entertaining. we'll have tom delay dancing with people like melissa hart. "dancing with the stars" begins next month. >> i'd love to hear the strategy session that led to this decision. that's what i'd love to hear. is it just like i have no place to go but here or what? >> maybe soften the image? >> i've been on the front lines of "dancing with the stars" with

our mutual friend tucker carlson. i traveled with him when he was there. i think the majority leader should know there's a lot of spray tanning, hair products and very snug clothes. kinds of onesies sewn together and heels. >> i don't know how that place in sugarland. >> the onesie is where you got me. >> onesie sewn together. >> speaking of sarah palin as we have been this morning, let's talk again by levi johnson. the 15 minutes. >> again? >> did a web interview with our friends over at bravo. i don't know why he takes the bait on all these things, but he did speak of sarah palin in terms of being the cougar. here is some of the interview. >> you are such a prolific baby

maker, i'm wondering if we can expect an announcement from kathy that there's one on the way. >> yeah. i'm not sure man. i'm a little scared. we'll see what happens in a couple of weeks. >> we'll see when the test comes back. are you a cougar lover? >> a little bit, yeah. >> really? >> yeah. >> okay. very good. you're almost former mother-in-law is kind of america's favorite cougar, wouldn't you say? >> not my favorite. >> he likes cougars, just not that one. >> i wish we hadn't seen that either. hey, pat, what do you say about levi and the stream? >> please tell us once again. >> take him down to the creek and hold his head under water until the thrashing stops. >> there you go. okay. i feel better now.

>> wow. wow. >> what about -- go ahead. >> top of the hour, this is important to all of us and everyone who twitters. a new study just came out yesterday finds 40% -- this number sounds low, 40% of all tweets are, point, pointless babble. forty percent, pointless babble. conversational tweets 37%, tweets with pass along value at 9%. four out of ten tweets is totally worthless. that's the message here. >> when you get off my feed. >> that number plunges. about 20%. >> tom delay will tweet during his "dancing with the stars"? >> i would love it. >> an opportunity. >> please make it stop. >> where does the girdle go. >> he's wearing one, trust me. i've seen it. >> a girdle onesie. >> i'd like to talk today, tina

brown with us at "30 rock." down in washington, d.c., the uniter, not divider. >> not a big levi fan. >> neither are we, for the record. we'll start with mika with the news. >> breaking stories. time for a look at today's top stories. breaking news out of afghanistan. officials in kabul say at least three civilians are dead following a bomb blast on the road leading to the largest u.s. base in the country. the suicide attack wounded 21 people including three u.n. workers. they come amid a new wave of violence. the head of the country's presidential election on thursday. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel was on the scene. he'll bring us a live report in a few minutes. in other news federal prosecutors say a former

government inform and is behind the largest case of cyber crime in history. albert gonzalez along with two russian accomplices hacked into retail databases. the justice department says they made off with 130 million not dollars, credit and debit card numbers which they used to take money over a two-year period. gonzalez has been in custody two months awaiting trial in a separate case. federal officials say millions of swine flu vaccines will not be ready by mid october as predicted. the government is blaming the delay on manufacturing issues and says it's extending an effort to get the people at highest risk vaccinated early. president obama is not abandoning the fight for public insurance options. several suggested without the option the president could lose support for the larger reform bill. >> house of representatives without a strong public plan, even stronger than the one we

reported out of committee, i think it would have a very difficult time getting 218 votes. look, the president has to lead on this and he has to say very clearly a public option is important that we hold these insurance companies accountable and provide some competition. i would love to be the one carrying the ball for him. unless he says a public option is the way to go, i'm going to be a no and so will a lot of people. >> we'll ask representative wiener about the battle later this hour. the nation's mortgage crisis may be easing, although the delinquency rate on loans hit an all-time high last quarter. the pace of growth slows significantly suggesting programs aimed at helping distressed homeowners may be taking hold. weather experts say hurricane bill is expected to gain strength over the next few days, although it's still far off in the atlantic, bill could track close to bermuda by the end of the week. it's too soon to tell if the storm might threaten the u.s. that's a quick look at the news.

time now for top talkers. >> willie, take us through the top talkers. >> let's do this gallup poll quickly, kind of a health care review, why there might be resistance. 2009 political ideology, poll taken first half of this year. gallup says 31% of americans identify themselves as conservative, #% as very conservative. a 40% number for conservatives. liberal 16, very liberal 5. so it's about two to one there if you believe the numbers we see the gallup poll. >> that's really what we heard on the book tour time and time again which led to the conclusion what happened in 2008 wasn't the defeat of conservative ideas, it was the defeat of republicans and republicanism. pat, i think you'd agree with me, republicans were neither conservative with the way they spent tax dollars nor the way they fought wars over the past ten years.

>> cheney's way of doing things. >> you're exactly right. republican party was repudiated. the country wanted to be rid of republicans. obama and people's problem is therefore the country was in love with them and their philosophy and all their ideas. the country simply wanted to get rid of republicans. obama made himself perfectly acceptable when he came off as a moderate and centrist. his problem now is he's perceived more and more outside the center and on his left. that's his problem. >> tina, it seems politicians always overplay their hands. >> i don't really think it's that he seems so left, it's that he doesn't seem convincing enough in the center either. he doesn't right now seem to have a sort of visceral, you know, coherent grasp of the agenda that he's selling. i don't think he's turning out to be, nfc, a great explainer of policy. i think he's been overused by

administration. actually, i think howard dean is a pretty good spokesman. he's a dr. he understands health care. he's fantastic. but they wouldn't let him do much for a long time. finally he's getting out there. i don't think robert gibbs is a very good spokesman for obama. we have a good piece on "the daily beast" saying it's time to think about the problem of robert gibbs of he's a little too smug and too arrogant and too -- they need a tony snow. >> a tony snow. >> awfully mean-spirited toward our friend gibbs. >> i like him personally, but he's getting it on "the daily beast." >> "wall street journal," whether it's republicans or democrats, no matter what white house it is, americans dlik fiscal promiscuity. they are feeling uncomfortable about money going in every

money. health care could become a victim of that. whatever happens may not be that good. >> there's no doubt. george w. bush, republicans got hammered in part because they spent too much money, too reckless. deficit and debt went up too high. barack obama inherited that. over the past six months, we have not only been on a spending spree, we have programs america thinks expanding too much. ten-year budget, nothing to do with stimulus, ten-year budget put outrageous deficit. all of that has added up to the perception that government is going too fast and out of control. it's got a lot of republicans, independents, and democrats concerned. >> unless some of the economic data we are seeing like the housing story i just read and some of the potential impacts of the stimulus package still yet to be seen may turn things around.

>> it's a little too incremental right now for what obama needs. >> health care. >> he needs to see for his health care, he needs to say -- >> look what i did. >> look what i did. it's just too slow. i don't think anybody is really seriously convinced that's happening. >> i'm not sure that's his fault. >> no, the economy is not his fault. certainly not. not right now. judge him in a year. my god, it took roosevelt eight years with a new deal to get the economy moving at all. >> exactly. >> willie, what else are you looking at. >> one more note on that poll, the most conservative state in the union, alabama. >> that proves my point. >> exactly. there you have it. >> let's talk about chuck grassley, certainly been in the center of the health care debate over the last several days, senator from iowa. we just heard from anthony wiener, some democrats say they won't vote for the bill. chuck grassley reminding us yesterday that republicans aren't going to vote for it either. here he is. >> i'm negotiating for

republicans. and if i can't negotiate something that gets more than four republicans, i'm not a very good representative of my party. it isn't a good deal if i can't sell my product to more republicans. >> all right. pat, that's the face of the republican party in the health care debate. what do you think? >> i think the republican party is gone, especially after watching town hall meetings and rage and anger. the guys you are going to decide whether you get any health care bill are those blue dog democrats. i was talking to charlie cook yesterday. charlie cook said, you know, whatever you say, those people there in those town hall meetings, you may call them any name you want but they are the voters that put in the blue dogs. will the blue dogs after hearing all that come back and vote for some large nebulous co-op package? i really wonder. they are the ones that hold the fate of the whole health care debate. >> they really do. >> it ain't the liberals.

>> they really dochl the only republicans that may be relevant by the end are the two senators from maine, olympia snowe and susan collins. the rest of the republicans in this health care debate are irrelevant. >> i think the blue dogs, obama really let them get out of control quickly. i think he could have done a better job with that i have to say. in the end if he gets something, we will probably look back and say, he did get something for health care. has he tried. it may not be everything we want. perhaps liberals will end up trying to torpedo that at least could get incremental health. >> circumstances in which he is trying to make this happen. >> we may look back and say it's only the way he set up for reform that made him in a sense look at failure. if he had done incremental approach he would have been able to achieve disaggregated successes. >> not just in health care.

but pat buchanan, overall, the last six months, burned political capital with a stimulus package that was unfocused. he could have made it bipartisan. i know that offends people but that's just the raflt it. history would show that's the reality. cap and trade, it doesn't have to go down that way. it did. if health care reform was the most important thing, they should have led with that after a bipartisan stimulus bill. but political capital, he's burned through so much in six months that americans are saying no more. no more deficits, no more big government. that's why this is such a rough ride for him. the white house knew this before they got into it because of that reason. >> exactly. and look, the stimulus package, people don't like it now but the blue dogs voted for it. they don't like cap and trade. they are bailing on that the blue dogs voted for it. now the blue dogs are being asked to walk the plank on universal health care after they

come back from meetings where they have thousands of people howling at them, don't do it. i think these guys, the blue dogs, vulnerable people in the democratic party next year. they hold the fate in their hands. one other point. the one thing obama has got to have now, that thing -- this economy has to be perking up and rocking and rolling by november 2010 or they will take a real bath. >> again, that's it. you judge the president and the democrats and how the economy is doing a year from now not now. at least the voters will. >> pat talking about town halls. we hoped we'd elevate the debate. we heard so much name calling on both sides. refresh your memory, liberal and conservatives. pelosi saying tactics at town halls un-american. harry reid saying protesters are evil mongers. >> what happened to moral relativity. the one thing democrats had

going for them. evil-mongers. >> just yesterday we had congressman nadler, the democrat, saying conservative protests were fascist, reminded him of weimar, germany. nancy pelosi calling insurance companies the real villain. the other side, not just the democrats, of course. we had the infamous sarah palin saying death panels. gasly, you have every right to fear. socialism. gon boehner encouraging the notion of government-encouraged euthenasia. >> the middle tune out. >> you see this so much in the great obama movement. the obama movement was organized around anti-war. and the -- and now you see the republicans organizing against debt. that has energized republicans as much in a way or beginning to be as much as the more organized

crowd. at this point of the high summer, the obama feel they have kind of gone away. >> i guess "times" had the story they couldn't get the net root generated for the health care bill. >> the messages go right to spam. >> "the daily beast" tina brown. thank you so much. good to have you and see you again. >> coming up new jersey governor jon corzine, he's facing tough competition for releaks. plus congressman anthony wiener, has new concerns about getting a health care bill passed. we'll go live to the white house with savannah guthrie. when we come back, nbc's richard engel back from the scene of the suicide attack in afghanistan. we'll talk with him. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

not enough to kill extremist and terrorists, we they'd to protect the afghan people and secure daily lives. this week they are securing polling places for this week's election so afghans can choose the future they want. >> president obama yesterday in phoenix. meantime early this morning a suicide attack in kabul killed at least seven people and wounded 50 others. presidential elections in afghanistan are now just two days away. with us now from kabul, just back from the scene, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent richard engel. richard, what's the latest and what did you see there?

>> reporter: we just got back from the scene. there were actually two attacks this morning, the rocket attack on president karzai's compound new york city casualty there's. then this large suicide car bombing that happened on the jalalabad road on the outskirts of kabul in an area where there's a high concentration of u.s. and british military bases. it's also near an afghan military compound, so it has a high traffic of both international and afghan military vehicles going up and down this road. it was apparently a british military convoy that was driving along this morning when it was attacked of the taliban has claimed responsibility for this attack and nato had confirmed there are casualties but they wouldn't say how many. >> richard, there's been talk, generals suggesting we're doing poorly in afghanistan, that we need more troops. do these explosions just bolster their claims? do you expect to hear more generals calling important more

troops to be sent to afghanistan? >> reporter: well, i think what we've seen over the last several days is the taliban increasing its focus here in kabul. it is not a city like baghdad, for example, that is filled with checkpoints. a lot of people in the international community in particular, u.n. aide workers travel without security. nato forces, not just american forces here but italian, french, german, british, they don't all have the same kind of vehicle. most of them aren't as well armored as american vehicles and they travel between numerous bases. so they are quite exposed here in kabul. what we've seen over the last several days is an increase in taliban attacks in the capital leading up to the election. taliban knows there's a lot of journalists in town and can get a lot of attention carrying out in the capital and not the remote mountains where they have been fighting u.s. marines and

u.s. soldiers. >> so are you hearing generals may be calling for more troops, more american troops in the future? >> reporter: we haven't heard that specifically. there's an assessment under way that is being put together by general mcchrystal, the commanding general here. it is likely they are going to ask the additional 10,000 troops requested by mcchrystal's predecessor that they come. but we have not heard any word that mcchrystal will ask specifically for more troops. he is putting together a policy review saying there should be fewer civilian casualties, more self-restraint on the part of international forces here and many people are speculating ayatoll he'll call for more forces. >> live in afghanistan, elections began two days. >> that's a real challenge for president obama.

the decision he's going to have to make. because i suspect, asking for more troops, americans are more weary after seven years of administration. >> having said that -- >> we're going to see. >> could be the next crisis we face. coming up next, governor jon corzine. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." capturing the beauty of nature. sharing what i see. that's my vision. and i'm living it. everyday transitions lenses are there to help care for my sight. announcer: transitions lenses adjust to changing light to reduce glare and help protect your eyes from uv damage, so you can see better today and tomorrow. live your vision. transitions. healthy sight in every light. authentic transitions lenses are available at jc penney optical.

♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet.

and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t.

these days pundits are even being attacked by math. >> the post office is even having problems. >> the post office is run by the government. >> if you want to know how the post office has done look at stamp costs. they have double since '91. >> they sure have. jimmy, show that fox news graphic again. yup. since '91, they have doubled. i remember -- i remember the good old days when two times 29 really was 44. >> they are changing numbers on us, rules on us it's horrible. >> it's the economy, one plus one. >> democratic governor from new jersey, jon corzine.

governor, you're in the middle of a heated campaign. we've been showing charges, un-american, people call each other fascist. have you figured whether you're going to call your opponent, nazi, fascist or accuse him of death panels. >> we're doing to avoid that more or less. >> at least until october. >> i actually think that the number one, two, and three issue is the economy. >> you sound like barnacle. >> people are really, really challenged in the world we live in and they have been for two years, maybe a little longer. the lead up to the recession was weak growth as well. so, you know, people are more interested in keeping their homes, keeping their job, keeping their health care. >> so tell me, governor, how

many four leaf clovers have you stepped on? how many pennies have you not picked up? you have the worst luck of the draw. i've been saying for the last couple of years, i would hate to be a governor now but to be a democratic governor in 2009, it gets no worse than that, brother. >> to be honest. >> pick up the penny. >> the economy doesn't turn around 2010 is a tougher time than 2009. >> really? >> really. >> you understand my point. >> absolutely. >> it's a terrible time for a democrat to run especially as governor. >> my line is why do we want to turn the keys to the state house over to the people who mucked up the white house. the fact is that people in new jersey didn't create the economic crisis. that's where people are really upset. they are concerned about how their families are doing in the

world, the economy today. >> do you think they are actually doing that -- >> blame towards bush? >> my view is they aren't going to blame anybody. they need to understand, we need to make it clear that the problems we have in new jersey are not the creation of the people of new jersey nor the policies we've taken. we've got a national economic problem, we've got a global economic problem. and it is the imbalances, by the way, out on the campaign trail, imbalances created by the debt that blew up in the last decade. it is the failure to actually address the growing income disparities that we have in this country and a lot of things that are fundamental. you know, the health insurance problem is a state of new jersey problem.

>> i haven't followed your race very closely. i've seen the numbers and they are not looking great right now. it's still early. >> i like to look at november numbers in new jersey tend to lean to democrats. >> actually i've always said new jersey and pennsylvania are fool's gold for republicans. they always talk about how they are going to win them in august. let me, the bigger point, i would guess you being with goldman sachs has to be you're going to be hearing in september and october, you talk about the people who put us there. for a lot of swing voters they are going to point to wall street and say, those wall street fellows and corzine was one of them. >> see this? this is my marine corps pin. i emphasize i was a sergeant in the marine corps. six years of that does a little work. >> is that an issue? >> people are very frustrated

with the folks getting bailouts and then turning around and seeing them do well. that's a challenge. at the end of the day, they are more interested in happening in their house, what's going on around their kitchen table. if we are doing things that are changing it -- and i sort of disagree a little bit with what i hear sometimes talked about. i think actually the stimulus has done a lot. >> you think it's working. >> to begin to turn a massive shift. last month our job growth dropped almost to zero -- i mean loss of jobs. it wouldn't surprise me on wednesday when we announce our unemployment numbers that we saw job growth, positive numbers. >> that would be great. >> i think there's a lot of things, steps taken at the state level, things going on, that you can see a change in the economy. >> pat buchanan, do you have a question for the governor. >> if you had one piece of

advice and you sat down with president obama and he said, what's one thing i ought to do now to get this economy moving that we really haven't done, what would you tell him, governor? >> i think they are going to have to deal with when this stimulus unwinds with regard to particularly the support from the states and local governments. otherwise a cliff falloff on state education and health care. the big picture issues he's working on on health care, which i hear all of the debate, but it is the driving force that is undermining the fiscal stability of our states, the fiscal stability of our businesses and the safety and security of our families. the fact is, something has to be done by health care costs or we'll end up with 35% of our gdp going to health care. that is unacceptable. to do nothing is a huge mistake. those things together.

>> thank you very much. >> thanks for being with us. good luck out there. >> quite a landscape for you to operate. >> still ahead, oscar winning actor ben kingsley. >> castaway, keeps going away and pushing him back. >> first this morning's headlines out of the white house with savannah guthrie. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." does your mouthwash work in six different ways?

introducing listerine total care. everything you need... to strengthen teeth, help prevent cavities, and kill germs. introducing 6 in 1 listerine total care. the most complete mouthwash. i hate my phone. what do i do? ( shouting ) this is crazy. you. let's run a free upgrade check. see if you're due for a new smartphone. don't i need to go to my carrier's store for that? no, you don't have to. we sell phones and plans on all the major networks. ok. well, is time travel possible? yes, i am from the future. announcer: phones, plans, and advice from thousands of people eager to help.

rrd d ou announcer: phones, plans, and advice naing onon ud r. weotototatatininci on us cars for everybody anont cfidedence ininin o. caususususlendnds s ve a a a t tcks. ququq n .

since there's been so much misinformation out there about health care reform, let me say this. one thing the reform won't change is veterans health care. no one is going to take away your benefits. that is the plain and simple truth. we're expanding access to your health care not reducing it. >> you watch "grey's anatomy."

>> back in my previous life i did. >> it's like a doctor show. >> i know what it is. i just don't watch it. >> you're looking at, that the white house this week is looking to assure democrats -- how is that for a tease "huffington post," it hasn't abandoned public option. meanwhile president obama's meeting with former president bill clinton to discuss his trip to north korea. with us now live from the white house, she's cleaned up, she's sober, she's high on life, she's nbc news white house correspondent savannah guthrie. savannah, what's happening at the white house today, savannah? >> well, a lot of foreign policy on the agenda. the president will meet with egypt's president hosni mubarak and meet with former president bill clinton.

they will get a briefing in the situation room about his former meeting with kim jong-il. he's briefed others but this the first face-to-face meeting between the president and former president bill clinton to talk about that meeting. it will happen later this afternoon in the situation room. >> when does bill clinton get in the house? >> i think at 4:00. i have to look up the schedule. wait, here i'm going to look it up now. hold on. hold on. i didn't know we were doing a pop quiz. >> sounds like college journalism. >> 4:00. >> chuck todd would have nailed it. >> 4:00. >> right now the president is leaving chappaqua. what do you hear at the white house? let's talk strategy. the president is getting fired at from the left, from the right, from the center. what's their plan moving forward? >> well, look, i mean, the white

house really kind of pushed back on some of us reporters yesterday saying that reporters had really read into the remarks of not just the president but secretary sebelius on sunday, both of whom said the public option was not an essential element of reform. they are trying to say, look, we have almost what's called a boring consistency to our rhetoric. they are trying to say nothing has changed here. move along. nothing to see. we've always said we prefer the public option whachlt we really want is increased choice in competition however you get it. that's true. the fact is, that refrain for months and months and months when asked if the president's position on the public option was a deal breaker. many times we've asked them in the briefing, will he sign a bill without a public option? gibbs has always hedged on that, the bottom line is increased choice and competition not any one plan. in some ways what the president said, what sebelius said wasn't that surprising but you could argue they did take it a step further by saying it's not an

essential element of reform. that's really infuriated some democrats, members of the left side of the party. we don't have a public option what are we doing here. >> let me ask you a question. what time does the president meet mubarak. >> i'm glad you asked, 12:30. >> isd 11:30. secretary of state clinton. when will he meet secretary of state bill clinton. >> we can do this all day. 1:30. >> you got that one right. are you a "grey's anatomy" fan? >> no. >> you're not? >> that's a good answer. >> no. who is that? >> willie, who is that? >> nbc news can confirm there's a tape of mcsteamy, his wife and a third party. >> that's terrible. >> any comment from the white house on that? >> checking the blackberry not just yet.

>> not just yet. >> savannah -- >> the issue here -- >> they are like two kindergarten boys. >> i'm a journalist. you know what, willie, why is this? busy reading the story. >> researching. >> savannah guthrie live at the white house. >> sorry, savannah. >> an extraordinary hit you just did. you've educated america. they can all go to work. >> my last appearance on "morning joe"? >> no. you'll be here tomorrow. no doubt about it. >> even though you're a diva. >> schedule will be memorized. >> she's such a diva. >> don't worry about that. >> the thing is, if she weren't screaming in the makeup room at the white house with the curlers. >> the makeup room. >> right next to the situation room. >> put a glass up to the wall. >> she gets off the hit, she's

going to scream into her microphone, hold it up, i cannot work under these conditions. yeah, she's awful. >> sweet on tv. >> it's an act. it's an act. 180 degrees. >> all right. good-bye. >> not voting for a bill unless there's a public option and he says he's not alone. obviously, mcsteamy. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. (mom) my son loves chef boyardee.

apparently he's not the only one. (announcer) start their school year off right with nutritious chef boyardee at an unbeatable price. save money. live better. walmart. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for?

the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

i'm negotiating for republicans. if i can't negotiate something that gets more than four republicans, i'm not a very good representative of my party. it isn't a good deal if i can't sell my product to more republicans. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that was senator chuck grassley, one of the republicans critical in the health care reform bill. now they have got company across the aisle with us now, democratic representative from new york and member of the energy and commercial committee judiciary committee member anthony wiener. good to see you again, anthony. news yesterday saying you won't vote for a health care bill if president obama continues in the

direction he's going moving away from a public option. why? >> the whole reason we're here is to try to keep down health care cost unless you have competition from insurance companies it's not going to happen. my view is obama has gone far enough, medicare for all americans, lower administrative costs of program we all know and understand. it's not perfect but something. charles grassley is there a single republican committed to vote for anything. you know what, make enough compromises come on board. problem is obama administration negotiating, without a public plan it's almost worse than doing anything. then you don't get any cost savings and you miss a great opportunity. >> we're hearing max baucus in the senate say end of last week there aren't enough votes for a public option plan and will never sell. you said there, nobody has got the votes and a half that's right. right now we don't have the votes for just about anything. we were starting to assemble a

rational for why you need insurance companies brought to bear. angry town hall meetings notwithstanding, you say are insurance companies going to give up profits and overhead they are probably not without some competition. the problem is we need to stick to a consistent rational here. i'm not sure they are doing that. they backed away from backing away. that's good. i don't know what's the point of goebting with chuck grassley if he says himself he can't negotiate with republicans. >> '93, '94 with the btu tax. >> it's not that bad in that to some degree we knew this month would be tough. we have a lot of explaining to do. there are two powerful forces we're taking on. one is the status quo, changing anything, a lot of institutional pressure to keep what we have. second is insurance lobby. they are tough, don't mess around. they have done a pretty good job

making -- getting people standing up at town meetings defending poor, down trodden insurance. >> you really don't believe -- you've seen the pictures. you don't believe these people are tools of the insurance industry, do you? >> i do have people industry, d? >> i do have people saying the poor insurance companies will not be able to compete. that's a strange thing for a citizen to say. >> i am sure it could be happening out there. >> let me ask you, why are people against the plan? >> because they believe the government has grown at a fast pace. they need to see how the government plan is not a government takeover of health care, and that's how it's sounding to people. >> i have heard people say

repeatedly, well if the public option is too muscular, the insurance companies will not be able to compete. if they cannot compete they will not get patients coming to them. the problem that we have here, we are trying to rig the system so the insurance companies are continuing to make healthy profits? >> why. they don't do a single checkup or exam or perform an operation. medicare has a 4% rate of -- >> well, you sound like you want the government to take over. you are asking why we have insurance companies in the health care business, and it's because we believe in free enterprise. >> tell that to people who have

medicare. >> hold on a second. i know everybody on the left, and i am not saying you are on the left or middle, and some of them are saying if you like medicare, you can't be against a total takeover of the health care. you just asked why the insurance companies make profits? >> what are they providing? >> what is the value of the wall street -- >> it's not providing a government service. 40% of all americans get their health care from a single payer, government funded and government-administered plan. 40%. so they have a good experience of a low over head thing. i am not here to advocate for profit for insurance companies, but for health care. >> you sound like you feel there

is no need for health insurances? >> well, i ask you what is their value? what is their deal here? >> i am astounded by your question. your question is suggesting that there is no need to have a country that is run on free market principles. >> let's focus on one thing at a time. this is not a commodity -- this is not a commodity, joe. >> health care is not a commodity. you are making the conservative's point when you say this is barack obama's opportunity to get rid of health care and turn it completely over to the government. i am sitting here stunned saying oh, my god, you are making the argument there. >> we have to answer the

question you tripped over it three times. i am sitting here dumbfounded that you are playing into the protestors' hands. >> barack obama does not want to do that plan. i wish he was. we will have a chance to vote on mine. a lot of people believe that medicare -- if you say to a 50-year-old guy you are getting medicare, he will be happy, because he cannot get insurance. medicare doesn't have to ties. joe, what are health insurance plans doing to reduce health care? tell me. >> again, i don't even understand the question other than it's you trying to make the point that we don't need private industry involved in health care at all. you are advocating with us today a complete takeover. >> medicare for all americans. >> it's a complete -- let me

finish. >> you don't think medicare for everybody is a government takeover, do you? >> you have to let me answer the question. we'll be back and i will answer the question if anthony will let me when we return. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar, but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small,

so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just one week. do-overs do exist. (announcer) total skin renewal neutrogena. pothole:h no...your tire's all do-ovflat and junk. oh, did i do that? here, let me get my cellular out - call ya a wrecker. ...oh shoot...i got no phone ...cuz i'm a pothole...so....k, bye! anncr: accidents are bad.

anncr: but geico's good. with emergency road service. ding! from that first dollar forward, cash flow isn't just an important thing to small business. it's everything. that's why pnc is introducing your new cfo, cash flow options designed to effectively improve your cash flow. cfo helps every dollar work harder. from the very first dollar to the last dollar of the day. get in touch with your new cfo. pnc. leading the way.

welcome back to "morning joe." coming up at the top of the hour, 8:00 on the east coast, and that's on the cam, los angeles and the big d, and then

st. louis, and back to the east coast, washington, d.c. and boston, the red sox have fallen seven games behind the new york yankees. and here it is, new york city, looking good, new york. our conversation with anthony weiner. anthony, i cracked the code. you do want the federal government to takeover all of health care? >> when you say takeover, only as much as government took over health care for seniors. >> you want to expand that for all of american? >> yes, medicare for all americans. no profits being taken. it goes back to patients and health providers.

>> this is your position -- not barack obama's, yes, and -- let me finish. this is not an attack. the people showing up saying the federal government wants to takeover all of health care, those people are scared of your position. and the second point is president obama would not want your position to be seen as the democratic position, right? >> the president's position of a public option is better than nothing, but the fact of the matter is, if you think that medicare is no good, and maybe you will not take it when you reach 65 -- >> anthony, let me assure you, i will not make it to 65, brother. >> and yeah, when you have elbows in your ribs every morning -- >> i spit up blood by 10:00. it's awful. >> can i say something? >> by the way, anthony, i don't

understand why republicans don't say, medicare provides a safety net. >> it's not perfect. >> and there is waste, fraud and abuse, and it goes that direction. >> the president's plan is saying let's cut waste and fraud. and conservatives say you can't cut waste over medicare. and we are not saying take over the doctors or hospitals. but there is a financing mechanism. you call an 800 number if you want to get to your insurance company. i say why? their director of the insurance companies makes millions of dollars. why does that make sense? well, the simple thing to do is

say something every american says, you get medicare at 65. well, now you get it at 55. next year you will get it at 45. >> the problem is not that they have gone too far left, if you define left by having the federal government more in the system, it's not that they have gone left enough. >> well, all the over head goes back to taxpayers and health care. >> but if us taking care of seniors 65 and over, it's a system about to collapse, how does it not collapse when they expand -- >> no doubt about it. we have to get control of costs. i think it's an easier thing to do as a federal system because you have more control. >> how do you do that? >> well, how does walmart offer $4 prescriptions? because they go to the pharmaceutical companies and say we have a giant buying pool here

and you will give us a great deal. and we, the taxpayers, we don't do this, because we outsourced it to insurance companies that don't have an incentive to keep the costs down, because they are getting a piece of the action. i ask what value are insurance companies bringing to the transaction. they are doctors and hold back on payments to doctors months at a time. they make it all wresle with this. >> well, i think there is a view if you think the government could run something more effectively or efficiently than the private industry? >> well, you can answer the costs are going up -- >> that's true in both places. >> the question is is medicare run efficiently, and there are people saying don't change anything at all.

and there is a 4% over head. >> the problem with medicare, though, is -- regarding its efficiency, every 10 years or go it gets in trouble. democrats were trying to scare seniors back then, and now it's republicans. we were told it was about to go bankrupt. and it happened five or six years ago. now we here in eight years, medicare goes bankrupt again. a lot of that is driven by costs, and i must say -- >> and demographics. >> yeah, and demographics, and for a system that is collapsing, to expand it from 65 over to 55 over and then 45 and over, and you have to tell me, how do we

curve the cost over the next eight years? we need to do this after the news? >> this is a great discussion. he is not calling the insurance companies evil. there is not ridiculous -- >> they are doing what they are supposed to. this is a good discussion, and let's continue it. what? >> nothing. you sound like a mother. this is fascinating. >> it's refreshing, and surprising. >> one of the problems with the president's message is it has been muddled. >> all right. let's look at news. time for a look at today's top stories. seven civilians are bed following a bomb blast outside

cobble. two of the afghan citizens are among the dead. in other news, a former government informant is behind the largest case of cyber crime ever prosecuted in u.s. history. albert gonzalez made off with 130 million debit and credit card numbers over a two year period. and hurricane bill is expected to gain strength over the next few days. bill could track close to bermuda by the end of the week. it's too soon to tell if the storm might threaten the u.s. with us now, andrea mitchell, also host of msnbc's "andrea mitchell reports." >> i want to finish with anthony, here. >> yeah, anthony needs you.

>> the question is, anthony, costs? the thing that i hate about the death panel discussion is, and the dem gauging on that, when congress has to go back, and say these costs are exploding, we have to make tough choices. people will jump back to the death panel discussion, and that gets in the way of us dealing with the deal we are facing. you have medicare going bankrupt, and then you want to expand it to 55 and 45 over, and where do we cut costs? >> that's the right question. the insurance companies have a higher health care inflation. we want to spend $30 a day to visit them by a home care attendant instead.

under medicare, we as policy makers can make that policy and say the health care financing administration, we will change the reimbursement rate and reimburse you for having the home kacare attendant. my only question is if we are going to try and get the costs under control, why are we paying for over head for insurance companies and their tv commercials? we know medicare works. why not make that 50, or 60, or everybody covered under that. no longer will employers have to care. >> have you succeeded in doing what nobody else has done in two years, you made me speechless

because you so clearly came here and stated your position, which is -- it took me a couple minutes to figure it out, you want the federal government to take over, and you want the pay mechanism -- >> yeah, who is going to take your money and give it to doctors. everybody, joe, has a single payer system. it's insurance company, out of their pocket, or medicare. so when you are passing your money through the insurance companies and taking a few bucks, what are they giving to you? >> anthony, are you going to be here for a couple days? >> yes, where i live. >> we will get you back and continue this conversation. our complaint around here has been there has been too much heat and not enough light -- even though i disagree with you, i love you coming on and saying this is what i believe. i think the president's message has been muddled. we are going to cut costs,

but -- >> yeah, and this is the first time i have watched your show fully clothed. >> yeah, we have found with us, the next generation mike barnicle, highly inappropriate, and -- >> i will look like that in a few years? >> oh, dear. >> we appreciate having you on. >> what is today? i am lost. let's get you back on thursday. let's go to nmsnbc's andrea mitchell. andrea, the white house probably at this point is a little worried about the elections and how they are panning out. what are they saying there? >> the main challenge was karzai was always the u.s. guy in afghanistan and proved to be not only corrupt but a failure to

control for the central government to exert control around the country, and now he is cutting deals with the war lords, and there is concern that they are guilty of genocide or other human rights abuses. you have real problems now with karzai, and richard engel reported earlier, people that don't have any rights of their own are perhaps worse off since the days of the taliban, except for a few pocket programs the u.s. is trying to install. it's a desperate situation, guys. >> andrea, 42 meets 44 today. what is going to be happening at the white house? bill clinton returns. >> separate meetings, you know,

separate but equal. hillary clinton with her regular meeting with the president today, before everybody goes off on vacation. a lot to talk about. she is there for the president of egypt and also a one-on-one. and then a former president, bill clinton, going down to the situation room, and he will be -- they will debrief him about kim jong-il, how does he look and talk and how healthy is he? what signals may or may not have been passed about the nuclear program and any willingness to rejoin talks? it's a interesting dynamic. that's with the president and the former president and the top national security advisers. you want to know what time that is? >> yeah, if you could help us out, because savannah guthrie could not help. >> savannah had a message for you, but i will let her pass

that on. >> we have a big show at 1:00 today. >> what do you have today? >> a big show. the former defense secretary to talk about afghanistan. we will talk to all the players on health care, and susan page and ron brownstein. >> thank you. for the record, a great article on all the work that hillary clinton did in africa. she did an amazing job there. idiots! we take one sound byte where she is real -- >> speaking of real, that was so great. >> he is begging for clear language on health care, and he gave us clear language. >> i don't know if the president can follow that, and say we want the federal government -- he kept asking me why do we need insurance companies and profit, and it was like asking mika why

she needs vodka. and then it occurred to me, he does, he wants to take private enterprise out, and at least have you a real debate when somebody comes here and doesn't have to have it three or four different ways. >> that's what we are about right there. >> well, that's what you are about. willie and i are about different things. do you watch gr"grey's anatomy"? >> don't bring it up again. we will get the latest from cnbc's erin burnett. >> she is a superstar. >> yes. and then ben kingsley. he is back. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. pollen.

when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy symptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. (announcer) side effects were generally mild and included headache. viral infection, sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and save up to $15 off your refills. go to nasonex.com

for details, terms and conditions. introducing listerine total care. everything you need... to strengthen teeth, help prevent cavities, and kill germs. introducing 6 in 1 listerine total care. the most complete mouthwash. 90s slacker hip-hop. ♪ that can strain your relationships and hurt yourody 'cause we'pride ♪ng a ride ♪ ♪ it's the credit roller coaster ♪ ♪ and as you can see it kinda bites! ♪ ♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪

♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ like a wanna-be frat boy trying to get down ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dot com - stat! ♪

with us now, a member of the association with the officers and contributor. joe fender, author of the novel "vanished." >> this would be successful, but for the fact there is no promo.

>> "the new york times," it's actually on the back. >> joe writes about cia direc r directordirecto directorly yadirecto director's scenes that followed. yoe, leon understands he screwed things up? >> well, he gets a routine briefing by a head of the

counter terrorism center, and they tell him about a plan that is not more than a power point presentation, and that has been dormant on and off for years. it's one of dozens of plans. >> we are talking about the assassination? >> yeah, it's about the cia hit squad, the assassination squad. he pretty much panicked, and he -- i am told he doesn't trust enough people inside the agency to explain how things work. rather than sort of figuring out what happened, setting up a meeting in congress a week from now, let's say, he called up the head of the house committee and said i want to come in asap for a briefing. the cia has been withholding something from congress. well, that's not true. the cia is not required -- in fact, all the cia was doing in

the case in the assassination squads was collecting intelligence abroad, in one country, iraq. >> trying to figure out if it was going to work. >> yeah, and some said it was too messy, and may not work. we would leave allies twisting in the wind. this was an idea they looked at and put on the back burner, and they come back and say let's try it again, and never passed the power point presentation? >> yeah, they could not figure it out. they did research. >> the conclusion was always too messy, we can't do it? >> yeah, and legally, the cia had the right to assassinate terrorists. this was a executive finding of george bush in september of '01. they did not hold that back from congress. so they were not going to hold it back, but it was not near the state where you briefed congress. >> so pennetta goes and briefs

congress, and he gets burned, and he does not trust them so much, because they leak it to help nancy pelosi, and now another cia director that will not trust congress. >> that's not the problem so much that the cia is about to go through a colonoscopy, because there is a massive investigation gearing up about how the cia lied to congress. we always think the cia is like the borne identity, where they have the hit squads. they cover themselves so much. >> i have friends from my days in congress that work there. they always say -- people ask me, do you do this or that? and the running joke is everybody says no they do that on the other floor. it's a joke.

it's not jason borne. >> the last cia director did not mention it to cheney or bush, or the national security advisor. did not even talk about it. never briefed congress because there was nothing to brief. i talked to an associate that knows. >> what is your conclusion aboutabout leon pennetta? >> well, he doesn't know where the levels are. >> why would they put pennetta, and everybody in washington respect him, but democrats and republicans a like saying pennetta, cia? his aides were not of the agency. now we are going to put a guy in

where they put in charge of a lot of cabinet agencies but not the cia. why did barack obama pick a guy and throw him to the wolfs? >> well, he put in somebody who was a complete outsider, and unfortunate unfortunately, that's always a problem at the cia. you know how hard to run a office, and to run a bureaucracy? it's messy. >> yeah, they talk about legacy of ashes -- you have to read that book and it shows you how dysfunctional the cia is. i read it and it says you have an open society and secret agency that is put on the map to protect. langley is about protecting our

freedoms, and -- >> yeah, and operating in an atmosphere like none other. >> it's going to be sloppy. >> politically, the winds shift all the time in washington, and we want to get al qaeda, and then it's like, wait, what do we do? the cia was told to do the bad stuff, the torturing, and i don't like it. i think it was a mistake. but they were told to do it. now eric holder wants to have a special prosecutor to go after guys that did what they were told to do. >> remember the september 14th, and the 13th, and they say we are going to have to deal with people with dirty hands. we have to grow up and understand we live in a more dangerous world. when the world seems a bit more safe, now suddenly we want to penalize those people. >> what i think will happen as a result of this, there will be pressure on this. congress, what is really going on, congress is like an angry mob at the end of frankenstein

with the torches? they want to go after bush and cheney. >> but here is the deal, they were angry on september 12th, because we did not go far enough, now they are angry in august of 2009, because we went too far. with we get hit again, they will be hang reagain. >> yeah, another swing. >> and those agents that do it are always hung out to dry. >> willie, tell us about the book? >> well, they do a good job making it sexy. >> yeah, this guy was an intel that used to do the same thing but in a private sector. the interesting thing is, there are people now, really skilled people in the cia, in other intelligence agents who are in the private sector, because the

cia downsized for 9/11. they lied off all the people, the best and the brightest, and they went private. >> they work for who? >> a lot of them work for the cia, but privately. the air is . and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network.

gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t.

let's go right now to

international superstar, erin burnett, and she will tell us how wall street came off the worse day in six weeks. there may be glimers of hope for wall street. erin burnett, i know you will not let us down. >> i said i have glimmers of hope for joe, and then something happened. before something happened, let me give you hope. target will come out 5% higher. and that's back to school and a higher income shopper in general than walmart. american express will open up higher today. second month in a row where there is an improvement. and so there is some positive headlines. >> keep hope alive! yes, we can! i still believe in a place called hope. that's great news, erin. everything is good, right? >> everything is great. july housing just came out.

they sell 1%. this is where it's not so good. they fell 1%. you take that for what it's worth. june housing was better than we thought, so let's call it a wash. and producer prices came out, and had more than twice the drop they were looking for. and part of you may say that's good and things are more affordable. and if an economy is recovering, prices must stabilize. >> we have been hearing since this began in the fall, fears of inflation trumped deflation for some economists? >> yeah, you had on peter ship where interest rates will surge because we are so worried about

deflasion and the recession we will end up with a huge price surge down the line that we are not accounted for because of all the money that is being printed in washington. i don't know which way it will go, because that's the good fight. you will see there is no pricing power, at least for what we have today. those are the main headlines, but let's take it away with target? >> up or down. >> target will be up. >> the market, up or down? >> it was going up, and then when the price numbers hit, it lost numbers. that was a concern. >> all right. erin burnett, international superstar, thank you so much. >> have a good day, guys. coming up, we have ben kingsley. keep it here on "morning joe." now create your own look with my new line miley cyrus & max azria

only at walmart. save money. live better. walmart. it's wt ctors recommend most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better... knowing doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand of pain reliever.

>

. >> you are going to play by big boy rules? >> yes, sir. consider it answered, and just another statistic, sir, and it didn't even happen, sir! >> yeah, right. you killed an 18-year-old fella that did not know any better? >> and you are innocent? you and your mates volunteered in an organization, and it made you do what you didn't want to do. where does that leave you and your mates? >> it's a scene from the new movie "50 dead men walking." with us now, the academy award

winning actor. >> thank you for asking me on. >> a remarkable story. tell us about it. >> i play a british special branch officer, and i chose him to come from north england -- sorry, this is about me, isn't it. we had to infiltrate the agency. and they have brilliant terrorists tactics at laying bombs and mines and all sorts of things. and we recruit these amazingly brave guys to move into the hierarchy, and try and stay separate from it in the middle of it and report back to us. >> but in this movie, in this case, with this story, it gets

more complicated. it's not good guys versus bad guys. suddenly somebody who infiltrates gets exposed. >> it's the gray area. i am sure that so often on this program you find that you are debating something that seems to be polarized, and then all of you are right in the gray area, and that's where most of us live and we fight our daily battles. i think the film does exploit very much that if you really want to overcome the enemy, it's better not to polarize it into total evil, but you have to actually begin to understand the motives, and the hierarchy, and how they operate. you won't understand that ever by simply demonizing them. >> isn't it fascinating that this is a look back at a historic phenomenon that most of

us grew up reading in the papers, and ira bombings, or going after thatcher, and suddenly it's a thing of the past. isn't it remarkable this piece has held for about a decade? >> absolutely remarkable. actually, you know, those geological ages, the jurassic age, i think we are living in the tribal age. >> watch out! watch out! you sound like pat buchanan now. >> i am sorry mr. buchanan, but with all due respect, we will say there is the tribal age, look at it. i hope we all see it where it's ludicrous. every single one of us ascended from the first, we are all actually cousins. >> when people go see it, what

is going to pull them in? >> i think hopefully what will pull them is is it's a thriller, the nail-biting, edge-of-your-seat thriller. the two guys involved are basically ordinary men caught up in extraordinary circumstances. it's the ordinariness that i want to portray and play, and they are caught up in the amazing roller coaster. >> you play opposite the young man jim stugess. this is a guy still in hiding. tell us his story? >> he was an infiltrator, and he was found out and his life was severely threatened and he moved to another part of the world and had several bullets pumped into him in what he thought was a safe area. he cannot return to his family or ireland.

he is in disguise all the time. one of the most wonderful shots -- a woman directed this shot. you see the two men, myself and jim, reversing out of the frame. in other words, life -- there is no going back into that very clever image. it's reversing out of the film. both of us are receding from it. jim is a wonderful actor temperatur. >> we had a most wonderful q & a last night. and a lot of men, most of the questions that we received from a new york audience were in lovely accents, interesting, and they did not take sides. what they seemed to appreciate was it was a very balanced film,

and that they -- what they thought what was very well reflected, and what appealed to them was the -- when you are in the situation, it's hard to exactly define who the enemy is. >> this is very difficult. >> a timely movie, too, because we were also talking about a book written about the cia, and those guys are ordinary. they don't run around -- they are not matt damon in "borne supremacy." they are doing what they think is right, and then suddenly they are told get yourself a lawyer. a lot of gray areas on the war on terror, and a lot of great

areas in that war against terror. >> yeah, shifting agendas. >> yeah, and i will ask you where you think movies are right now, in compared to say when you won your oscar for "gandhi." at the same time, in the last decade, we tapped in well in film? >> i am still recovering from being called an old timer. i am in mild shock. >> you went white. you did. >> that's okay. he does it to us all the time. >> i don't include you in that group, sir. >> i think when i did "gandhi," it was a character driven film. including speilberg's character driven film, and i think this

gray area, if we over fictionalize it, do we want a magazine cover or an informing story? celebrity is an extraordinary word. celebrity actually means one who is celebrated. our celebrities are lampooned and despised and held up, and they are not celebrated. so we need to shift that emphasis and redefine that word and get back to narrative filming. >> you are happy with where movies are and film making? >> yeah, i am happy with my career and i am an actor and now producer. i am producing all -- all of the films i am producing are entirely narrative driven, because the people in the audience, wherever the culture or historical period is, they

can say that's me. if you over fictionalize, you are going to snap that. >> mika is excited about the movie with hamsters and guns. >> yeah, transformers, and before that -- >> i have gone into deep shock again. is this true? >> mika does not watch movies. >> life is full of surprises. >> you have -- you obviously have done something great here, because you are able to get groups together, watch the movie, and coming from completely different world views, and thinking that you did it right -- >> right, chthat's chal enging

people. thank you so much. we will be right back with the latest on hurricane bill. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ñ ♪

bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

new blackberry, huh ? yeah. me, too. how sick is the web browsing ? all the apps, gps, video... yeah... you didn't get your blackberry with the verizon network, did you ? no. sorry. so it doesn't work here, does it ? no, but... paperweight mode. all right. ( announcer ) blackberry runs better on america's largest 3g network. and now buy any blackberry, like the new tour, and get one free. verizon wireless.

good morning. it's time to get a check of your tuesday morning airport delays.

things are looking quiet out there for jfk and newark. across the northeast this morning it's sticky in boston. 78 degrees, and 76 in the big apple. and later on this afternoon, we can expect sunny skies. once again the heat wave continues in the northeast. and temperatures low to mid 90s in hartford and boston. and pop up showers are possible. we will watch those move into the region tomorrow. he we'll be right back. - hi. - blue shirts: hello!

i don't know anything about computers and my daughter is going to college, so she needs one. - can you help me? - ( shouting ) - yes, you. - our line of next class laptops are perfect for college, and they start at just $650. are those good? 'cause i don't want to get her something - that she thinks is totally lame. - no, they're awesome. and they come with pre-loaded software so she won't have to do a thing.

- great. she's good at that. - ( blue shirts laugh ) laptops designed for college and thousands of people eager to help. best buy. buyer be happy. summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just one week. do-overs do exist. (announcer) total skin renewal neutrogena. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and wherever i go, i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate.

we are back on. >> i cannot shake the images of willie and i walked into his -- oh, it was attractive. willie, what did you learn? >> i learned a number of things. we are excited to see tom delay on "dancing with the stars." wearing jazz shoes.

>> yeah, i learned kingsley is not an old timer, but an up and comer. >> that was below the belt. >> what did you learn? >> i learned one can start a morning in new york gloryiously. i love the debate in this room. >> i like that. >> i learned i have seen more movies than i can remember. and that's a problem. >> i learned so much this morning. i learned though -- this is the most important thing. human beings, you say are not -- >> i think it has been pressed. >> okay. i am a little uncomfortable. >> i will hug you.

>> willie and i are big believers that you don't suppress. you don't suppress. >> all right. it's time to wrap up. >> we have one more thing to show you. >> what is that? >> we want to play our "morning joe" moment where it's pat buchanan and levi johnston, and a lot to do with the would-be son-in-law. >> your almost favorite mother-in-law is kind of a cougar, wouldn't you say? >> she is not my favorite mother-in-law. >> i wish we had not shown that either. >> yeah, me either. >> pat, what do you say about levi in the stream? >> please, tell us once again. >> take him down to the creek and hold his head under water until the thrashing stops.

>> i am uncomfortable every time he says that. >> every time levi gets his little 15 minutes -- >> who would have guessed he worked for the nixon administration. i never would have seen that coming. what time is it, willie? >> it's time for our man, dylan ratigan. >> yes, i am dylan ratigan, and welcome to the "morning meeting." we have seen the right get angry, and now the left is angry. democrats revolting this morning over the public option. he says the president will lose 100 democratic votes in the house if he keeps that public option. and then a man accused of stealing 100 debit card and credit card numbers. what did he do with those numbers? engineering a crime scene, and dna evidence is supposed to

be fail proof, and now some scientists say it could be fabricated. forensic expert joins the morning meeting to talk dna. can the hammer nail down the texas two-step? tom delay dancing with the stars. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." >> welcome about that good morning to you. the white house's willingness to back up the option, it has a few threatening a revolt. savannah guthrie on the beat. good morning. >> reporter: on the left side of the democratic party is disturbed over what they think is signals from the administration, that they are willing to live without the public option, and they thought

there would be a government plan alongside a private plan, and they say that would keep insurance costs low, and critics say it will lead over to a government takeover of the health care system. pelosi reaffirmed her support for a public option. and senator feingold saying without a public option i don't see how you call it public reform. and once again today we are going to see a lot of town halls around the country, and one town hall in florida there was an overflow crowd. and there is a report that the aarp, the senior citizens group that supports reform generally but has not endorsed a bill, reports it has lost 60,000 members since july 1st, apparently because oe