compared the refrigerators, they compared 18-inch wheels, but never compared credit card rates and so the competition was not existent here. >> credit card companies don't want to give out more credit right now because they're already in debt themselves for so many people, you know, not actually paying their bills. what can consumers do to protect themselves at this point. if you know your rates are going up, what can you do? >> it's very difficult. there's been a lot of disturbing notes around people raising their minimum payment from 2% to 5%, to millions of people, probably. >> and nothing you can do about that except pay out the balance and get out? >> if your payment goes from $500 to $1,400. obviously you don't have the money to pay it off at that point. there isn't a lot of recourse. in some cases you can negotiate with the bank, which will end up a cure worse than the disease. probably a higher interest rate as a result of that. these are tough times. it's really important around this deadline that consumers watch the mail very carefully and notice as they might normally throw out.

got to read them. i know cleaning the toilet sounds like fun, but read in these e-mails you're going to get and credit card companies right now, very important. >> where do we stand, then, bob, with competition? and jim, jump in if you want too. it used to be, you'd get five or six credit card offers saying you're preapproved now. if you didn't like what one credit card company was doing to you, you say, unless you fix my rate -- >> yeah. the competition before the competition is very bleak. it is out there for some people with good credit scores, but i think the important thing for people to do right now, redouble efforts, the best thing in the world to do is pay down those balances. >> obviously credit card companies right now are having a hard time. they want to raise more revenue. if somebody can't pay off their bill, raising their interest rate isn't going to help the situation, right? >> no, it's a catch 22. and this is what's happening with credit across the country. whether people up side in their homes, their cars, and up side

down in their income as it pertains to their credit cards. there isn't going to be any solutions. ultimately companies are going to have to do workouts like a lot of these mortgage companies are, but for those who have the credit, meaning higher rates and fees. the good news is there's going to be enough transparency now that people are going to be forced to start to have to learn this stuff and soon they'll start paying these balances down. unfortunately, that's going to mean less consumer spending in the economy, it's going to drag out our recovery. >> bob, jim, guys, thank you, both. new housing number out today show the road to real estate recovery is a bumpy one. >> the commerce department says construction of new homes and apartments fell 1% last month. diana olick has the latest now from washington, d.c. 1%, put that in perspective for us. >> reporter: well, this is really a mixed bag is what it is. that 1% number comprises multi-family and single family. if you want to break it down to the all-important single family went up 1.7%. multi-family, however, fell off a cliff, down 13%.

and the reason behind that is commercial lending. it's just totally dried up. they can't get the loans for new buildings and that's what keeping commercial building lower. it is good news, at least, from the builder's perspective of a rise in single family home starts. if you look at it from the total recovery in the housing market, maybe you don't want to build more homes because we have so many homes and 8.8 month supply of new construction already on the market. inventories have been coming down, but we need to see them come down more for a healthy recovery. >> right. and diana, i love this one. reports that 81% of homeowners believe their homes will not lose value over the next year. >> optimistic much? >> or it might have been the next six months. i can't remember exactly. they probably don't even know what their house is worth right now. what they believe and the reality are probably maybe not connected. >> reporter: they're very far apart and i've got to wonder, ladies, am i doing my job? i talk to you all the time, talking about prices, recovery in the market, and i guess nobody's listening. but the deal is, most experts expect that prices will fall

another 10% to 15% from where they are. perhaps this optimism is coming from the fact that we saw some new numbers out in june and recovery in sales. sales do not mean prices, prices always lag sales, they did it on the way down and will do it on the back up. there is more pain in prices to come. i guess some of this optimism, perhaps, people thinking they can now get more for their homes, but we have rising foreclosures and realtors are telling me, i talk to them every day saying, look, our sellers are not realistic, having to slash prices, assault and battery it in a survey last week which showed a huge percentage of sellers on the market today are still having to slash prices even twice to get a buyer in the door. so get realistic on this, shall we? >> getting real, thank you. >> get real. >> let's get a look at how the numbers are affecting the numbers on wall street right now. the dow is trading higher, 84 points, much better than yesterday's selloff. the s&p trading by 10 points and the nasdaq higher by about 23.

progressive lawmakers are furious about any talk of killing the public option when it comes to health care reform. a group of 60 sent a letter to health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius saying that dismissing the public option would be a grave error. but a new nbc news poll shows the number of people who do not want a public option is up at about 47%. >> and right now, we're waiting for a fresh response from the white house in a briefing here. we're expecting robert gibbs to come out and talk to reporters any moment, but let's bring in white house correspondent savannah gurthrie, they're sending us, what is it a preemptive strike? because nobody's saying for sure that the public option is done. >> no, no. no one's saying that, but a lot of people have read into what the health and human services secretary sebelius said on sunday what the president himself said on this town hall over the weekend and both of them essentially saying, you know, if and when the public option is part of a plan and sebelius saying it's not an essential element of health care

reform. and some people thought that took what the white house has said on a public plan a little bit further. it's true, though, and robert gibbs is pushing back. it is true for months and months when asked whether or not the public option was a deal breaker, the white house always hedged. they always said the president prefers the public option, he thinks it's the best way to increase choice and competition, but open to other ideas so long as it does, in fact, increase competition and drive down costs from insurers. so they're trying to say the state of play hasn't changed. what's interesting about that is the state of play is, maybe the public option is in, and maybe it's out. if liberals are mad, they have ever reason to continue to be mad and could have been mad for the last three months, the white house position is essentially the same. >> savannah, thank you. and we'll continue to watch that white house briefing when we see robert gibbs if he addresses some of this discontent over mixed messages and signals. we will bring that to you. chicago sun times columnist

robert novak died early this morning in washington, d.c. after a battle with brain cancer. co-host as cnn's "crossfire" he had been a columnist for the chicago sun times since 1966. the 78-year-old journalist was a figure in the plame case. -- making life miserable for hypocritical postturing politicians and i hope serving my country. the prince of darkness, 50 years of reporting in washington. michael jackson will be buried next week in los angeles. and a private ceremony will be held august 29th on what would have been jackson's 51st birthday. only family and close friends will attend, but accommodations made for the media nearby according to this statement. jackson will be buried at the great mausoleum in memorial park. and despite bankruptcies and massive cutbacks, automakers seem to be making their customers happier these days.

a recent survey shows the big three all posting significant gains in consumer satisfaction. the industry's overall score was up, as well. and the u.s. government's tripling the workforce of the cash for clunkers program to help speed up the processing of vouchers. some dealers have been complaining the government's been slow to reimburse them up to $4,500 per vehicle. and department of transportation says about 1,100 people will go to work for the program to process those vouchers. the majority of americans don't think the $787 billion stimulus package does anything to boost the economy. in fact, some say it actually hurts the economy. come on, let's break it down. plus, a happy ending for two arizona toddlers reunited with their parents after an attempted kidnapping. and another flip-flop for brett favre, now looks like he's planning on suiting up for the vikings? i mean -- these are the enemies, brett. how could you? details ahead on it's the

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all right. there's a new cause for worry with the foreclosure crisis, looking like the spike in unemployment will result in more people losing their homes this year. >> diana was just telling us that bankers and economists say the unemployment rate is overtaking subprime mortgages as the leading cause of foreclosures. economists estimate 1.8 million borrowers will go into foreclosure in 2009, up from 1.4 million in 2008. >> and one of the problems the economists site with this new round of foreclosures is it's a lot harder to help people who have lost their paychecks

altogether. if you don't have a job, you can't make it no matter what it is. >> and even if it were low and stay where it was then -- >> right. yeah. >> there's a new poll out that shows more than half of americans and given that last story, you might understand the pessimism. more than half of americans don't think the government's $787 billion stimulus package works. 57% of those polled say the stimulus package has no impact on the economy or is making it worse. okay. only 18% say it's done anything to help their own personal situation. >> yeah. joining us now is editor at large with "fortune" magazine. it seems like people were way too optimistic out of the gate. is there any chance they're being too pessimistic? >> well, first of all, the stimulus package won't necessarily have an effect on the economy now. the economy could come back anyway. when it comes back, it will be indeed in spite of the stimulus

package. it is extremely poorly designed and aimed. most of the money is going out in checks to people, families $800 to what they call making work pay, that's over half the program, and when people are very, very pessimistic and think their taxes are going up in the future and have credit card debt, they don't spend the money. if they save the money, it has no stimulus effect. it doesn't work in the long-term for a different reason which is that as deficits go up because you're borrowing the money and instead of raising taxes you're essentially borrowing the money that you're using to give people the checks, the deficits go up, that pushes up interest rates and companies invest less, which cause less growth going forward. then after you raise taxes in order to get rid of the deficits, people have less money to use for consumption. so in the long-term, it's tremendously negative. and in the short-term, it's not even stimulative. >> let me ask you, if you're looking at a big picture and they've passed this $787 billion bill, if they had said, okay,

forget about the making work pay program, which is going to send out these checks to people, we're going to focus it all on building our infrastructure on big ideas, on turning our nation from an economy that is reliant on fossil fuels and especially foreign oils to one that is innovative when it comes to green technology. if we had been big thinkers, would it stimulate the economy then? but only a small -- >> the way everything was shovel ready and we were going to spend on an infrastructure. wasn't that the original sell? >> well, supposedly shovel ready projects take at least a year to get going. yes, indeed if you have very big infrastructure projects that really have the big return, they're suburban high-speed transit lines, rail lines that improve commuting times, highway projects. they can be very stimulative, but we don't have those. a lot of the green projects, in fact are not -- >> what is this $274 billion on

infrastructure in the economy so far $76 billion spent. $270 billion -- i know it's just a portion, a fraction of the overall bill, you think that would be a sizable move in getting us forward and stimulating the economy. >> depends what it's being spent for. if it's being spent for credits, mainly this money is going out to the states. okay, and then we don't know at what point it's going to be used or put into effect. a lot of it is going toward state budget -- city budgets, municipal budgets. >> to keep cops on the job or things like that? >> those are jobs that keep people in their homes, right? they continue -- >> that doesn't stimulate the economy, that just keeps us at status quo. >> it has increases government employment, which is extremely expensive, especially on the benefits side, but in the long-term, it doesn't increase private employment, it decreases it. >> shawn, thanks for running us through those numbers. >> thank you, my pleasure. well, the first hurricane of the atlantic season could become a major storm in the next couple

of days. >> right now hurricane bill is a category two storm with winds topping 110 miles per hour. forecasters say the storm is moving west-northwest with a direct line toward bermuda, the hurricane could become a category three over the next 24 to 48 hours. police are no closer to finding a missing georgia woman. 38-year-old christy cornwell was seen august 11th. he overheard a struggle while on phone with her. divers searched a lake where her cell phone was found, no sign of her. they are looking into her past and whether her former job as a probation officer may be linked to her disappearance. new video showed two kidnapped children reunited with their family at police headquarters in phoenix. police say four armed men broke into their home in the wee morning hours and took 2-year-old boy and an 11-month-old girl. the suspects apparently left their kids at a front yard ze several miles from their home. police say the suspects were trying to rob the house and they are still on the run.

while facebook's facing a privacy lawsuit. >> five users filing suits alleging it violates several state laws aimed at protecting consumer's privacy. accuses facebook of failing to compensate its users for harvesting their personal data and for violating laws that protect consumers from having information they upload to the site that's shared withed the t parties. this is why you get ads tailored to you do you work for nbc universal? i get this one a lot, i can get teeth whitening for a dollar. >> i don't think you need teeth whitening. >> that's the ad i get on facebook. >> somebody thinks i do. >> looks as though -- it looks as though legendary quarterback brett favre is heading to the enemy. i love you folks in minnesota, but come on. favre left his hometown in mississippi, landed in the twin cities earlier today and now mind you favre was a green bay packer for 16 years. >> didn't he retire several

times? >> yes. >> oh. >> before that when he was playing for the packers, the minnesota vikings were the arch rivals. but then there was the retirement with all of the crying and then a yearlong stent with the jets and then another retirement later and it looks as though favre is entertaining this offer. >> you've been following this closely. >> well, if you got inducted to the packers cult, you would follow it too. here's the thing, it would mean favre would get a chance to play against the packers, maybe get a little revenge. it also means the vikings would get the super bowl-winning quarterback, three-time mvp, albeit old one and injured one. there's an announcement from minneapolis-st. paul, if it happens soon, we'll be on top of it. by the way, i found this t-shirt online, somebody pointed this out to me. can we show the t-shirt i found with the -- what? i asked for it an hour ago. >> this is out of control. >> how about this, on twitter.

i tweeted about this. here's what open book general says to me. as a vikings fan and an admirer in favre, i'm disappointed in the whole distraction -- wait a minute. >> wait a minute. >> i got it. the whole distraction. he should stay retired and mean it. and then there's augusta 68, brett really loves to play, if he does sign with the vikings, he wants to beat the packs bad, they treated him -- contessa's going to pull herself together after the break. i may be here myself. it comes from a restaurant downtown. a shop on main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy. the reinvention of business begins with them. and while we're sure we don't know all the answers, we do know one thing for certain: we want to help. come see what the beginning looks like

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who is the man behind the mask? wait for it. chicago college student came up with this cryptic poster portraying president obama as the joker from batman. when they first appeared somebody thought it was a conservative blogger or an artist, nope just a guy with a computer program downloaded on instructions on how to joker-ize someone. he's actually a palestinian-arab-american who is a socialist. and someone wrote socialism on the picture, he said he didn't do that part. we've heard plenty, perhaps too much from the governor, now jenny sanford has her say about her husband and the other woman. south carolina's first lady is profiled in september's "vogue." >> there are excerpts and he talks about her desire to escape things. she'd like to have someone 5,000 miles away to e-mail on her husband's affair, she says through counseling it became clear her husband was obsessed

with this argentinian mistress and she says she feels sorry for the woman and her own husband. it's fabulous but, if you're going to go, go big. if you haven't signed up for twitter yet, maybe this will coax you. you can now reach god. an israeli university student set up a twitter site. you send a prayer message, less than 140 characters, of course. he prints them out, hand delivers them to the western -- >> whoa. >> where people put in their written prayers, he's delivered 1,000 so far and doing it to benefit people all over the world. >> prayers aside, i don't know if you saw this study, 40% of all tweets are nothing but pointless babble. according to peer analytics, many are conversational, but only 8% are moderately interesting. >> case in point, at melissa cnbc, they're raising profit

guidance, what in god's name is in spam? >> you didn't tell me you were going to do this. >> why would i tell you ahead of time? that would give it away. remember, you can tweet melissa or tweet me. we love to hear from you. pointless babble or not. i've gotten a lot of criticism from people who said everyone has a can of spam in their cabinet. i've asked everyone, do you have one? i do not. >> but you know what? we should prepare because in emergencies. >> in an emergency, i would not want to eat spam. >> you would if you were hungry enough, sister. when we return, we'll drill down on the co-op versus public health care. plus, put down those wii controls, the video games are endangering your health we'll have the disturbing news. and which -- which would you rather? a good night's sleep or great sex? >> i didn't know they were mutually exclusive. >> good or great? that's the word they use. more ahead on "it's the

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here's robert gibbs being asked right now about health care reform. let's listen in. >> -- in recent days that the health study that a public option might not be part of the health care. >> as i've said now yesterday and earlier today, the presid t president -- his position the administration's position is unchanged. that we have a goal of fostering choice in competition in a private health insurance market. the president prefers the public option as a way of doing that. if others have ideas, we're open to those ideas and willing to listen to those details. that's what the president has said for months. coincidentally, that's what the secretary of health and human services has said for months,

it's what i've said for months. i think the suggestion somehow that anything that was said saturday or sunday has been new administration policy is just not something that i would agree with. >> there seems to have been a lot of people, a lot of people took it as kind of a trial, maybe looking for -- >> meaning the media? >> well, no, your supporters -- some of your supporters in congress, actually, do read it as a change. when you look at what the president said to the ama he said the public option is not your enemy, it is your friend. he's not saying that anymore. >> what do you mean? >> he's no longer proactive -- forgetting about what he's leaving in or out. can i finish my question? >> no, i'll finish my answer. >> go ahead. >> the president was clear in two questions that he received at the town hall meeting on saturday. about the public option. the second question, which is a man in a red shirt over on the

right-hand side asked about the public option and then the second to last question, the guy about the debate in the second or third row right after the podium had the same question. let me read this to you, ed. you'll notice -- let me just read. secretary sebelius, july 12th, 2009. i think you're going to hear from senators in a little while about a variety of strategies to get to a public option. this isn't one size fits all. i think the president said we could have competition, the issues of competition and choice and how to bring that into the private marketplace. there are probably a variety of strategies, all of which are on the table. any guess on what network that was on? >> it was on cnn. but on sunday -- >> a very correct assumption. >> sunday she was also on cnn and said the public option is not the essential part of health reform. she didn't say that on july 12th. and on june 15th to the ama,

repeatedly the president proactively said the public option was the way to go and -- >> i just said it was the preferred option. >> okay. but then why did he on saturday say if there is a public option or there is not and then the secretary on sunday says it's not the essential part? >> no, no, the president said that on saturday. >> right, i said on saturday he said -- >> because -- >> there is one or not one. he hadn't said that before. well, answer that one part. before you go around and around, he had not said there is one or -- >> he said repeatedly he's open to different ideas and discussions that his preferred option was the public plan. he said that on saturday. he said that on -- he said that on saturday. i said that on sunday. secretary sebelius on your network said that on sunday. this notion that somehow something is markedly changed, let's understand first of all, i want to step back for a second and discuss -- we threw around the notions of choice and competition. let's discuss why you need choice and competition, right?

in an insurance market where 30 or 40 or 46 million new participants or consumers could come into the marketplace. in a marketplace that's potentially dominated by in some regions or areas of the country, one insurer dominating the market. my home state of alabama, blue cross blue shield has roughly 89% of the health insurance market. okay? we all understand that in a monopoly where one side dominates the entire market, it's going to be hard to keep down costs, right? if you had one place to eat lunch before you came to the briefing, do you think it'd be cheap? probably not. if you had two places to eat, my sense is competing dishes might not be as expensive as if there were only one. the notion of adding that consumer choice through greater competition is the goal that the president has always said has to

be paramount. when he talks about the essentialness of health care reform, okay, let's understand the principles that he's put up there, right? we have to cut costs for families and small businesses. that's essential. it has to be deficit neutral, that's essential. what's essential is ensuring we provide accessibility to millions of those that don't currently have it. >> so when you say a public option is now the president's preferred choice, has been and is his preferred choice -- >> i'm not saying that now -- i'm saying i said that repeatedly -- >> so is the public option an essential part of health reform? >> i think the president said that on saturday? >> so why did the health secretary say no? >> what did the president say on saturday? >> it is essential. it is essential. the secretary sunday said it's not. >> what did the president say on saturday? >> saturday he spoke positively about a public option but also said we could have it, we may not have it. >> i think he used the word

essential. >> -- let's say -- i don't have the transcript, but if he did use the word essential on saturday, why did his health secretary not say the same thing on sunday? >> go back and look at the transcript and you'll -- >> why did she say it's not. you can't answer that. >> go find the transcript and i promise you you'll answer your question and wonder why you were phrasing it the way you did because no offense ed, you seemed to heard what the secretary said on sunday bu, bu not what the president said on saturday. >> -- understanding the president believes the public option is the best way to force private insurance companies to bring down their prices. is the white house -- is the president convinced that co-ops, while not as strong a measure would be able -- a viable alternative to the public option.

cost savings could come from the co-ops. >> jake, in all honesty, i don't think anybody has seen that level of detail thus far that would -- that you'd be able to make a completely educated assumption on what we've seen. >> conrad said on sunday that the votes are not there in the senate for the public option. do you guys agree? >> i'd have to talk -- i'd have to talk on that. that's what a lot of people have said. >> right, but you guys count votes and you're involved -- >> i haven't talked to ed recently about that. >> okay. there's also a thing i wanted to read you in a letter sent last week from the white house to the national association of supervisors to the president of that union said that his union had a "collective disappointment" that you, meaning the president, chose the political services as a scapegoat and examples in efficiency.

does the president -- has the president seen that letter? does he regret using the post office as an example of inefficiently. >> i doubt he's seen that letter and i don't believe he has any reason to regret it since he's repeated it. >> let me try one more. the aclu in april put in the freedom of information request, pentagon responded to the aclu saying we have information, we're not going to give it to you. does that live up to the president's promises of transparency given that the pentagon has released that information about gitmo detainees? >> i saw your blog post on this, but i have not seen the letter. and don't have any other information on it. >> setting aside the issue of whether or not what was said over the weekend is different. the policy's different. which your policy position is consistently is that the public option while being the preferred method is not a deal breaker for the president. and i guess my question is --

>> you should talk to ed, right. >> we are understanding. >> that's what we said in june, that's what we said in july, that's what we said -- >> so working from that premise, which we all can agree on is the position today. >> we can. >> that does not give much comfort to many -- >> well -- >> can i just -- >> go ahead, go ahead. >> sorry. >> before the ama the president never said it's not a deal breaker. did the president ever tell the ama it's not a deal breaker? >> read that. >> thank you for that. >> just collectively. >> i'm not sure where we could go on. >> okay. consistency aside, i guess my question is that assuming this has been the consistent position, this is a position that really bothered democratic members of congress. we're seeing it probably expressed more than we have in the past because they were on the clear this has been the

administration's position all along. but essentially what the president is saying that the public option at the end of the day is optional. and i guess my question is what do you say to members of congress who are threatening to walk out if there's no public option i'm not in this? >> i would say it is the preferred option. >> does that give them a lot of comfort? >> i'm not a democratic member of congress. >> but you're the white house in position to lead on this issue, it's clearly something that's important. >> well, again, i would -- i'll point you back to what the president said, ed's got my transcript. on saturday, the president strongly believes that we have to have -- and i mentioned, i walked through the notion of why choice and competition are so fundamentally important to this debate, right? that any monopoly without consumer choice, without competition among health insurance providers, you're certainly not likely to see cut in costs, not likely to see a competition on quality.

and those are the goals that the president has. >> consistent or not, is that he could envision a scenario in which he lives without a public option. >> he did not envision a scenario in which we live with anything that doesn't provide choice and competition in a private insurance market that allows people to get the best deal possible on both the pricing quality if they enter a private health insurance market. that's what the president's bottom line is. do we have a system that provides that choice for consumers and that competition among insurers on quality and cost? >> and if social security acceptable to the president but not acceptable to members of congress the democratic party, that's okay with you? >> well, the president is focussed on many different goals. cutting costs, coverage for millions that don't have accessibility, making this deficit neutral, which he

reiterated at each of the town halls, and ensuring costs -- ensuring choice in competition, that's what's important to the president of the united states. >> and real quickly, have there been any calls either between the president or perhaps rahm or david or any of these folks to members of congress who are concerned about -- >> no, not that i've -- the president hasn't made any. rahm's fishing out west and david necessary east in michigan. and i doubt -- >> all quiet on the front. >> have you seen this from the republicans on the hill that they're asking is he profiting? from a payment he's getting from his firm, his firm involved in the pharma advertising deal. >> that's ridiculous. david has left his firm to jo jojoin public service. >> -- getting a payout? >> an agreement that i think was made because david started the firm. he left the firm, and if i'm not

mistaken is being paid for the fact that he created it and sold it, which, i think is somewhat based on the free market. yes, ma'am? >> what message will the president be delivering to religious groups on health care tomorrow? >> you know, he's going to talk about again, just the -- you're not going to see a difference in message. you're going to see the boring consistency of ensuring that we cut costs, ensuring that we take the steps that are necessary to relieve the burden on families and small business. obviously the president will talk about the importance of providing access to affordable health insurance for millions of those that currently don't have it. boring consistency. >> the uninsured rather than this public option? >> well, no, the president will continue to talk about what he thinks is important in health care. and it will include all of those topics.

mark? >> robert, is the white house taking aback by the $700 million pace of authorize for the new ceo of aig? >> well, i believe this is an agreement that we'll go through the process of ken fineberg to ensure it's consistent with his principles. and obviously the board wants to find a ceo that's knowledgeable about insurance companies. and running an insurance company and hopefully getting an ailing company that was once a successful insurance company that somebody had the bright idea of putting a hedge fund on top of. >> so aig is the company that is 80% owned -- >> correct. >> by taxpayers. taxpayers who make $30,000 $40,000 and $50,000 a year. why shouldn't they feel like suckers if they see the ceo of a

government-owned company getting $70 million a year? >> look, mark, the board is going to make a decision. we've talked about -- the president's talked about, we're not micromanaging these companies. the government's not making these decisions. the board wants an insurance company ceo that can help take a company that was once successful, as i said, somebody hatched the bright idea of putting a hedge fund on top of it. and it's now a royal mess. we -- i think the board wants to see some good, confident leadership that can lead the company back toward profitability and hopefully the recoupment of some of the investment the taxpayers put out in order to prevent a calamity to our economy. >> and on another issue, does president obama ever speak with either bill or hillary clinton about health care and their experience? >> i don't -- obviously the secretary of state's in the oval

office today and was part of the larger delegation meeting. obviously president clinton as we talked about will be here later today. i don't know to what degree they've discussed health care. >> have you actually asked? >> i haven't asked, and i will be honest with you that i'm not entirely sure that i'm not going to keep private conversations between somebody like the secretary of state or the former president between the current and former president. yes, ma'am? >> can you talk about reports that the administration -- and what will be in that plan? >> yeah, i saw that right before i came out here. obviously the -- i think the illusion is to u.n. general assembly meeting which is that i think that third week in september. i think it will be -- >> okay, so there's the press

secretary robert gibbs. and you heard him coming down hard on the reporters who are asking questions about what seemed like the white house backtracking about the public option saying, no, the president still thinks it's really important. the best way forward. >> but he always said all along that all the options were on the table. >> but the only option he's taken off the table is any bill that does not pay for itself. he says he won't sign a health bill that adds to the deficit. so let's -- >> except that could mean you're going to raise everyone's taxes. >> it could be. it could mean that. >> whole other debate. >> a financial reporter for the washington post joins us now. you know, we heard robert gibbs there mentioning the co-ops because that's been brought up here, david, as an alternative to the public option. is it? >> well, you know, intentionally or otherwise, the white house created the impression over the weekend that its defense of the public option is softening and now the attention turns to the health care co-ops as a potential alternative. so far they've been defined

mainly in terms of what they're not. they're not government-run health care. there is a big difference, and it's not clear whether they could do the same job, achieve the same effects cutting costs. in a government-run health plan, the government can in effect set the reimbursement rates for doctors and hospitals. the government can give health care providers a take it or leave it proposition and that can result in lower premiums. co-ops, by contrast would have to negotiate with doctors and hospitals and as start-ups, they might be small, they might be weak by comparison, they might have a hard time commanding favorable rates, and they might have difficulty ramping up to compete with established private insurers. >> they're also run not for profit. so some would see that as good in that i guess there isn't an incentive out there to make money off health care. others would see that as bad in the sense that you know if it's

not for profit, they can go ahead and undercut, you know, other health care companies and not worry about that they have to make money and drive them out of business. is there an up side to the co-op's plan in your mind? >> well, there are advantages and disadvantages. the clear disadvantage for those who want to control costs is that they can't dictate reimbursement terms as non-profit. they wouldn't be as susceptible to the pressures and temptations of wall street. they wouldn't have to worry about generating a return for shareholders. they could focus instead on reducing premiums, on improving the quality of care. but they wouldn't have anywhere near the marketing clout, it seems as a big government plan. >> okay. all right. we're going to leave it there. thanks so much for joining us. >> we're keeping our eye on that press briefing by robert gibbs talking about the white house stance on all of this. if we hear more on public option versus co-ops, we'll make sure to bring youlatest. we'll be right back.

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a revolt from the left? some top democrats insisting president obama stand his ground and keep the health care public option. >> did the white house flip-flop on one of the most critical parts of the debate? and will republicans still vote against reform anyway? also new concerns over people bringing guns to obama rallies. what does an assault rifle have to do with health care? bloodshed in afghanistan, launched new attacks just two days before afghans head to the

polls. will violence derail the vote? csi omg, turns out dna evidence used to catch criminals or set them free can be fake. also, how sarah palin might do against barack obama in 2012. if she had kept her governor's job. and keep your foot on the brake. how in the world do you get stuck in your car on a drawbridge? here on the big picture. good afternoon, everybody, good afternoon, monica. i'm david shuster live in washington. >> and i'm monica -- first up, the big picture, white house press secretary robert gibbs is insisting today that president obama still wants a public option in his health care plan. here's what he said just 15 minutes ago. >> the president, his position, the administration's position is unchanged. that we have a goal of fostering choice and competition in a private health insurance market.

the president prefers the public option as a way of doing that. if others have ideas, we're open to those ideas and willing to listen to those details. that's what the president has said for months. coincidentally, that's what the secretary of health and human services has said for months, that's what i've said for months. i think the suggestion somehow that anything that was said saturday or sunday has been new administration policy is just not something that i would agree with. >> so what exactly does the president want in his health care plan? >> the president is focussed on many different goals. cutting costs, coverage for millions that don't have accessibility, making this deficit-neutral, which he reiterated at each of the town halls. and ensuring costs -- ensuring choice in competition. that's what's important to the