york. >> and i'm david shuster live in washington. and, monica, after 48 hours of getting pounded by the political left today, the white house went into overdrive to try to clarify their position and priorities in the health care reform debate. in the big picture, administration officials insist that president obama still prefers a public option in his health care plan. >> here is the bottom line, absolutely nothing has changed. we continue to support the public option that will help lower costs, given american consumers more choice, and keep private insurers honest. >> i think the president has discussed that a public option is his preferred method to add choice and competition, but he's certainly open to looking at and discussing other ideas. >> that is somewhat similar to what president obama said last month except for a big difference. the president at the time said any plan must include a public option, and note the word must.

in this july 18th saturday address as opposed to the word prefer. >> any plan i sign must include an insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, costs, and track records of a variety of plans, including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest. >> but then here is what health and human services secretaryebee public option on sunday. >> i think what's important is choice and competition, and i'm convinced at the end of the play the plan will have both of those but that is not the essential element. >> adding to the confusion and consternation on the left on saturday in colorado president obama mentioned the public option with a reference of whether we have it or not and he called it a sliver of reform. bill burton is the white house deputy press secretary.

he joins us now. bill, i want to get back to something the president said july 18th that we played. the president said any plan i sign must include an insurance exchange, including a public option. does the white house still believe that the public option must be part of the plan as the president said last month? >> hey there, david. thanks for having me on, first of all. i'm glad that you played that entire sound bite because i think that part of the debate is being confused by the fact that what the president says there, very clearly, is that what the plan must include is a public exchange. now, the way that he thinks the best -- is best to set up that public exchange to offer the most amount of choices, the most competition, bring down costs the most is to put in place a public option and that's what we've been saying since day one. robert gibbs, secretary sebelius, nancy, the president has said what he thinks is most important is bringing down costs and offering competition and the best way to do that is through a public option. >> let me start right there. i mean, would you acknowledge

there is a difference between saying that something must include a public option and saying that the president prefers that it include a public option? >> i think that there would be a difference in that, but what the president said there is it must include an exchange, which he has stuck by. he thinks the best way to set an exchange up and we said the best way to offer more choice sincerely through a public option. >> just to be clear he said back in july any plan i sign must include an insurance exchange, a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, costs, and track records of a variety plans, including a public option. it did seem to leave a lot of people with the impression this is something he would fight for. let's ask it a different way f the white house believes a public option is the best way, is the white house willing to fight for a public option? >> well, here is the president's feel. it's that after looking at all the different ways we can do this, spending a lot of time on the issue talking to his advisers, working with people

inside and outside the white house on the republican and democratic side and out in industry, he thinks the best way to do it is to go forward with a public option. now, the president isn't particularly ideological when it comes to good ideas. if you've got a good idea, he'll take it. it doesn't matter what political stripe it comes from. all he wants is to find the best way that we can build consensus behind health care reform that will bring down costs so that -- this is a bigger issue than just, you know, this one piece, this public option. this is about -- >> it's good you mention costs. >> how do we stabilize costs. >> it's good you mention costs because senator conrad said on another network and he was asked specifically about the co-op proposal he's working on in the senate finance committee, the one the white house is very eager to sort of wait and see what they have. the co-op proposal he said will not bring down costs. he said it will increase competition, it may increase choice, but it will not bring down costs. if you know that a co-op is not going to bring down costs and you believe that a public option will bring down costs because the insurance industry with

their for-profit motive would be forced to compete against the government, why not say off the bat we're not going to go with the co-op because we already have the sponsors saying a co-op won't bring down costs. we're going to go with the public option because we believe the public option will bring down costs? >> i'll tell you exactly what the president has had to say on this. he's not going to sign a bill that does not bring down costs. i'm not familiar with interview that senator conrad did. obviously, we have a lot of respect for him. he was one 69 first guys on board in the presidential campaign. we certainly appreciated his support back then, but the president is committed to finding all the ideas that are out there that can help to bend the cost curve because if we don't -- right now, thousands and thousands of americans, every single day are losing their health care. and if we don't bring down costs, that's going to have an impact on individuals, on businesses, and on the federal government. we need to get the deficit under control and the president isn't going to sign health care reform that doesn't do that. >> bill, the 60 house democrats who wrote a letter saying the public option must be in this,

do you believe it? >> well, let me say nobody said that passing health care reform was going to be easy. but i will be able to say we've been able to make more progress than anybody has over the course of the last 60 years of trying. we're going to continue to work with those democrats. we're going to continue to try to get republican support to make this a bipartisan proposal. and the president is confident that by the end of this year he will sign a health care reform measure that will bring down costs, that will increase choices, and will be deficit neutral. >> white house deputy press secretary bill burton. thanks as always. we appreciate it. to the bigger picture, will co-ops help lower costs by increasing competition and providing more choices like the white house is calling for? well, the man pushing the concept in the senate, senator kent conrad says no. so then how exactly do co--oops work? ryan grim is a senior congressional correspondent for "the huffington post" and joins us now. ryan, the co-ops are being

billed as the alternative to the public option and yet even senator conrad today stating in this interview that while they could create competition, wouldn't necessarily lower consumer costs. >> right. we've got to think about what's going on here. if these co-ops were able to act like a public option, if they were able to have national buying power, national bargaining power, which is what you need to bring down costs, then republicans would oppose them. they've said as much, and it's also just logical. if they oppose the public option, then a co-op that acts similar to a public option would be just as objectionable to them. so you have to ask what's really going on here? why are we moving from the public option to the co-op in terms of this debate? >> yeah. >> and the answer is because, you know, people like senator conrad and others don't want a public option according to people i have been talking to in the senate. they'd prefer a co-op because it doesn't work the same way. it doesn't require this infusion of government money.

it doesn't increase the responsibility for health care. it doesn't solve the problem, but it also doesn't cost extra money, so that's where this is coming from. >> but they do need billions we're hearing, billions of dollars in government startup money. they do need time and they need 25,000 members to be financially viable. that's what we're hearing but at least half a million members to negotiate health care providers, to negotiate with the health care providers. can they possibly gain market share to be really competitive? it sounds like you're saying no and that's why some folks are finding these politically palatable as an option. >> if they do the things you're talking about, if they start out with a big infusion of government money, if they are national in scope and if they have 500,000, 1 million, you'd really need something like 10 to 20 million people in it in order for it to work, if that's what they did you'd have paeople lik

senator conrad and the gop conference opposing it. so you're stuck between this thing. in order for it to work, it would lose what it has going for it, which is that it could be bipartisan. >> ryan, there was so much push initially to get this done quickly. now we're hearing that the president won't commit until at least next month. so this will go on. this debate certainly between these two options for some time. >> right. and what bill burton just said now is interesting. he said that the public option is just one piece of -- i think that was his quote, just one piece of health care reform and that what this is really about is getting the economy back on track. that couldn't be any further from what liberals and progressives have been pushing for. you know, they think that the public option is health care reform. without a public option all you're doing is forcing people to spend their money on private health insurance. >> and many of them already see public option as a compromise. ryan grim. thank you so much. appreciate your time. >> great, thanks for having me. monica, we have some breaking news out of texas right

now. a tornado apparently has been reported in beaumont, texas, near the parkdale mall. you're looking at pictures of it with a lot of debris strewn about. there are reports that some shoppers have been injured at the parkdale mall where there are stores like kohl's, walmart, macy's. there's a report of roof damage if not roof collapse at kohl's and people out of the store. as you can see, at least there's some debris around in the parking lot. we're going to keep everybody posted on this. but again a tornado apparently touched down in beaumont, texas. some reports of injuries. we will have more information as it becomes available. two clintons are back in the white house, as chance would have it. both the secretary of state and her husband at their former home today. the clintons are meeting separately with president obama. right now mr. clinton is in the situation room where the president. we're told he arrived five minutes ago. on the agenda, a debriefing on clintons trip to north korea to free two american journalists

but you won't find secretary clinton there. her spokesman said scheduling conflicts prevented her from attending. just over an hour ago the secretary held her own weekly one-on-one with president obama in the oval office. julie mason is the white house correspondent for "the washington examiner." julie, to be a fly on the wall for both of those meetings. >> indeed. can you say awkward. bill clinton just arrived here at the white house. photographers caught him going in. we don't know if he's going to come out and speak to us, but, man, i would love to hear that conversation. >> julie, picking up on something monica said. the state department is really saying that a scheduling conflict prevented secretary of state clinton from being at the white house at the same time as bill clinton even though mrs. clinton's meeting with obama was at 1:30. bill clinton's meeting is at 4:00. a scheduling conflict? >> i know, it strains credulity. we have hurricane bill, we can't have hillary clinton in there as

well. too much clinton for the obamas. >> i'm curious to know what the clintons will sit down and discuss tonight at dinner regarding their meetings. >> it's true, and she will never say. you know, he doesn't have much to say about it either. i think we will hear more about these meetings from the white house than we are from the clintons. >> julie, do we know anything more about the relationship that the president and secretary clinton have developed personally now? i'm just wondering, we heard those quotes from her last week. she was on the defensive when she thought she was being asked a question about her husband. so i wonder if she walks into a meeting today, can he rib her about that a little bit in person or do they just not go there? >> president obama doesn't have like a very robust sense of humor. he's not a jokey guy. not like president bush in that way. so it's hard to see the two of them having really a joshy relationship. they seem to have a really good, positive relationship though. there's a lot of mutual respect there. she's such a hard worker, and she's trying to really make a success of this state department job. she's got a lot of respect for that.

and that seems to inform their relationship more than joking around. >> thank you, julie mason. julie, we appreciate it very much. monica, i think it is worth pointing out that the white house would not allow news photographers or reporters in for either of these meetings. they're closed to the press. so there's not even opportunity to ask the white house about the awkwardness of both clintons and whether there was a problem with the both being in the same room with president obama and the messaging and all of that. >> we'll never know. >> no. still ahead, developing news about the doctor at the center of the investigation into michael jackson's death. look at that video. dr. conrad murray speaking out today for the first time. we'll show you some of that. also, the wronged wife is speaking out. new reaction today to jenny sanford's startling comments about her husband. she described her husband as like an addict. much more on that possible tornado that touched down in beaumont, texas. you're looking at live pictures from our affiliate kprc. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc.

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welcome back. we do have breaking news. you're looking at pictures into our newsroom moments ago from beaumont, texas. that's a roof collapse of chakos in beaumont. it's believed a tornado hit the area. this is the parkdale mall. police say there were several injuries in the area. people were apparently reported to be seen sitting outside that mall, but again that roof collapse in the kohl's.

no idea how many people may have been inside when the roof collapsed for if they had any warning. this is northwestern beaumont, 90 miles east of houston, texas. local officials are saying this tornado, if it is a tornado, touched down at the whole's department store. it skipped over a walmart next door and then continued on down the parkdale mall area. the roof of that kohl's has collapsed, as you can see, and again customers sat alongside a curb near the store. one woman was reported to be seen being taken on a stretcher with visible cuts to her face and bricks on one exterior wall were also torn away. mike smith joins us now on the phone from the scene. mike, what can you tell us? >> well, the scene is pretty much kind of calming down right now. i am just down the main street. i assume you're seeing the helicopter pictures? i'm near a barnes & noble that's lost part of its wall.

i'm in a shopping center here that had been evacuated about 30 minutes ago because of a report of a gas leak, and there are people just kind of clearing out. a lot of people were pretty shocked they're telling me. it seemed the storm kind of came out of nowhere literally. a lot of people -- >> there wasn't necessarily warning for this then? people were caught by surprise? >> people were pretty much caught by surprise. one gentleman said that he was going -- trying to enter the barnes & noble. he had just parked in front and he said that it just started raining really hard. he felt his car sort of swivel around sort of, it was rocking and bucking, just really wild, and a piece of the wall of the store flew and dented his truck right by his door. he had his 12-year-old cousin in the backseat and they sat there in shock, and they looked off and saw the tornado kind of passing toward the mall near beaumont. >> so they did see a funnel

cloud then. >> they did see a funnel cloud. i talked to another woman who walked over from the walmart porking lot. she said she definitely saw a wide funnel with a narrow spout at the bottom that was striking the building. >> mike, we have heard obviously there are some customers who were injured. from some of the shots we saw of the roof collapse, is there any reason for concern that people may be trapped in any of the buildings at this point? >> i have not heard that, but i have heard people have been milling around and coming from the parking lot who told me they did see that there were injuries and there were people being transported. i have not heard anything about anyone being trapped. >> and nothing on the nature of the injuries yet? >> nothing in that way yet, no. >> does it appear everyone has survived who was in the area? >> it would appear so. then again, i'm not at the heart of the scene. i'm just down the street, but -- and there's another reporter

there at the scene, but from my vantage point from what i have heard from people, i couldn't say whether or not there have been any serious injuries, but definitely there have been injuries with people transported. >> mike smith with the beaumont enterprise out there on the scene in beaumont, texas, after it appears a tornado has just struck. we're going to continue to monitor these pictures and we will bring you updates on the story as they come in. stay tuned for more on "the big picture." when i had a heart att. my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.

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there ever are a lot of things that could be considered news in this world. >> but there are only a few stories that make us say -- >> no way! >> no way! >> nice. this is a picture you've got to see to believe and we're going to show it to you right now. police in sturgeon bay, wisconsin, are searching for a woman whose car got stuck on an open bridge last week. look at that shot. they're trying to figure out how she ended up there. i'm sure she was trying to figure that out herself.

witnesses say the woman was trapped in her car at that angle for about two minutes. bridge operators noticed the car was perched on the bridge and so they lowered it. luckily, the driver was not injured. >> nice brakes there, monica. >> exactly. and the 12th annual kool-aid days in hastings, nebraska, come to a close with the cardboard boat races. dozens of teams put their creativity to the test for the competition. it's no easy task, but there is something to look forward to. even teams that don't make it are still eligible for a trophy for most spectacular sinking. how about that? do you know why they do it in hastings? i looked it up because i was curious why hastings and why do they call it the kool-aid days festival. that's your clue, kool-aid from hastings, nebraska. >> monica, the competition on so many people's minds right now, college football. it starts in a couple weeks, but social technology has apparently been sacked by college football's southeast conference. the conference that includes the

top ranked florida gators has created an uproar by banning the use of social media services at its games. no twittering, facebooking, blogging, or youtubing at games. that's because authorized media coverage rights belong to cbs and espn. the s.e.c.'s new policy read ticketed fans cannot produce or disseminate any material or information about the event including but not limited to any account, description, picture, video, audio, reproduction or other information concerning the event. david zyron is joining us. how could the s.e.c. enforce this? >> they would need about 10,000 large southern men walking through the stadium trying to take people's cell phones away. someone said they can pry my iphone by my cold, dead hand. >> and the big ten encourages people to tweet. >> there's a reason why they

call the s.e.c. the screws everyone conference. they charge the most for season tickets. they practically charge for oxygen once you enter the stadium and now they want to take away people's technology. this really does speak to the reason why people think of the people who run the s.e.c. as being a lot of old men named hootie. they don't know anything about how young people communicate and now they're taking it out on them. it's like i do declare, there's a phone in our stadium. it's not going to work. >> they're angering, as you pointed out, the fan base and the s.e.c. already has a reputation of being shall we say a little loose when it comes to grades for student athletes. this is just going to go right to the reputation that the s.e.c. is only concerned about money. >> and that's why student athletes should be paid. you're talking about $3 billion contracts. the ncaa still considers itself a nonprofit which is like, i don't know, sarah palin considering herself a college gradua graduate. just because you call yourself that, doesn't mean it means anything. >> dave, who writes for salon -- >> the nation. same thing. >> you should be writing for everybody else as well. great stuff.

>> thank you. >> we appreciate it. monica, more proof that the big ten is the superior conference to the s.e.c. it's just that simple. >> i'm not going to disagree with that. i don't think they'll ever be able to enforce that, and i think now they've just challenged people. i think kids are going to go there and say look what i can do. >> you can imagine where that beer is going to be flying if somebody says take away that blackberry. have a bud light, mister. >> that's right. >> up next, dance machine tom delay putting his best food forward about his upcoming appearance on "dancing with the stars." what he's saying about his new partner and nancy pelosi. >> and the latest on the sanford family drama. you are watching "the big picture" on msnbc. when i was seventeen i was not good to my skin. long summer days and not enough sleep. what i wouldn't do for a do-over. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. gentle exfoliating puffs and micro-vibrations speed surface cell turnover.

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cnbc market wrap. stocks posting gains on wall street today. the dow up about 82 points. the s&p 500 up nearly 10 points. the nasdaq up 25 points. the price of oil up more than 3% today. u.s. crude for september delivery settled just above $69 a barrel. construction of new u.s. homes fell 1% last month missing expectations. at the same time construction of new single-family homes rose 2%. profits fell 3.6% but results are passed. southwest airlines has announced a fare sell to fill seats during the fall and winter months. although it has blacked out many days around thanksgiving and christmas. some fares will go for as little as $59 each way. that's it for cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to msnbc. welcome back. i'm david shuster live in washington. >> and i'm monica novotny live in new york.

right now on "the big picture" ement b embattled south carolina governor mark sanford returned towo to work today. jenny sanford has moved out of the governor's mansion. she found time to talk to "vogue" about her husband's affair. the person i married was centered on a core of morals. the person who did this is not centered on those morals. she went on to say while not living with the governor at the moment, she is at least open to the idea of reconciliation, david. >> monica, in the bigger picture a lot of people in south carolina and across the country are wondering what would possess jenny sentenanford to even cons getting back with her husband. she had this to say about working in her husband's political campaigns. quote, it was fun. campaigns are exhilarating because all sorts of people come out of the woodwork to help. so all sorts of people come out

of the woodwork but she just couldn't paimagine her husband ever having an affair. joining us on the phone is gina smith, a reporter for the state newspaper. gina, how is this interview with "vogue" playing in south carolina? >> hey to both of you. i think it's really -- there's definitely a certain audience for this kind of information. it's definitely the top read story on our website today. i think there's over 23 pages of comments right now. a lot of people who are expressing a lot of different opinions, everything from we've heard enough of this, we just want jenny sanford and the governor to be quiet about this affair, to people who are just fascinated with every twist and turn of this story and want to know what she's up to. >> gina, has jenny sanford given any explanation, either maybe even privately to some of her friends, about what is motivating her to give these

interviews, to maintain the public profile. we saw the pictures of her moving out of the governor's mansion. she do that during broad daylight. she keep this is story in the spotlight by giving a high profile interview to "vogue" g magazi magazine. does anybody know what is driving her to do this? >> i don't think any of us can say exactly what she's doing. it certainly caught us by surprise because when she did move out that day she issued a statement requesting the media to respect her privacy and the privacy of her four children, that she was retreating to the family's beach house on sullivan's island, and asked the media to basically leave them the heck alone. so we were all really surprised to see her in "vogue" with a picture. it seems to -- it feels like she's sort of maybe trying to retool her reputation, but that's just complete guess. no one knows for sure what's

going on here. the rumor mill says maybe she wants to run for office, too. who knows. >> interesting. gina smith of "the state newspaper." clearly that's an effort by jenny sanford to recreate her image to a certain extent. >> it was surprising to some of us to see her coming out with that "vogue" interview but what an interesting point she brings up, would she herself run for office some day? we have breaking news concerning the death of michael jackson we want to share with you. his personal physician who was with him on the day he died has issued his first public statement since jackson died on june 25th. dr. conrad murray posted a video on youtube thanking his supporters. take a look. >> please, don't worry, as long as i keep god in my heart and you in my life i will be fine. i have done all i could do. i told the truth, and i have

faith the truth will prevail. god bless you and thank you. >> joining us now is msnbc.com's courtney hazlett. courtney, this is a surprise. what's behind this video and i guess i didn't know that there was such an outcry from supporters of dr. murray. >> 20 to 30 supporters a day according to representatives in dr. murray's attorney's office which doesn't sound like a lot on paper but when you think about what we've been talking about with dr. murray, his possible connection to michael jackson's death. that does sound like a lot of supporters. this does seem it is ripped out of a page from chris brown's playbook in some sense. this video, posting it on the internet. this sort of not apology per se in dr. murray ace ca's case, bu addressing of his alleged fans does seem to go along with what celebrities, the famous or infamous, tend to do when they want to make it look like they're giving an interview but they don't want to have to

answer any difficult questions so. what dr. murray here is doing, it's like, listen, i cooperated. all we can do is hope for the best. he's right on that point. you do have to give him credit for this, he's been cooperating with law enforcement really all along. never a story saying dr. murray has disappeared or refused to give, you know, hand over some sort of evidence or something like that. so he's right on that count but it is very strange he would want to put himself out there even more right now. >> we mentioned the manslaughter investigation continues of dr. murray. do we know what the latest is on that? >> the latest on that is they're still really looking into what exactly happened, making the connections between the prescription medications that law enforcement say exist in this toxicology report that has been made public and trying to connect them with the prescribing doctor in most cases that's believed to be dr. murray. however, it could be weeks until we really find out if he will be charged with anything. >> courtney, we're also learning more today about when and where michael jackson will be buried. >> august 29th, which would have been his 51st birthday. it's going to be the cemetery

not quite where we thought it would be before, but in the glendale location of that forest lawn cemetery. a little more private. a lot of family members are confused by this though. it was news to some of his closest family members. joe jackson was broadcasting it early this week. news coming out of this family is really difficult to track and often conflicting even within the family. >> courtney, thank you. monica, up next, our "face-off" on health care. >> president obama backing down from a fight over the public option? we'll talk about it. most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't... so you feel better...

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call the number on your screen... for your free brochure. the president is focused on many different goals, cutting costs, coverage for millions that don't have accessibility, making this deficit neutral which he reiterated at each of the town halls, and ensuring choice and competition. that's what's important to the president of the united states. >> you're watching "the big picture." that was white house press secretary robert gibbs talking about what president obama wants to see in the health care legislation. >> monica, but what about the public option? that is the focus of today's "face-off." the white house says the president prefers the public option, but not fighting for it may not be good enough for some democrats. they say the public option is the only option.

in fact, 60 house democrats wrote a letter to health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius saying to take the public option off the table would be a grave error. passage in the how many times depends on inclusion of it. chris kofinis is a republican strategist and cheri ja cocobus. >> i think they're in a difficult spot because they're seeing a lot of pushback amongst almost the entire republican party as well as a few democrats in terms of the public option. i think at the end of the day i think it's very simple. whichever policy, whether you go the co-op route or public option route, whichever policy will address the problem of health care, which is cost, expanding coverage, portability, the key issues we're talking about, and i think the co-op to be honest

doesn't do that, but that's just my personal opinion, but if you can make the argument the co-op does, i think that's a reasonable choice. the other problem is you have republicans out there, let's be frank about it, who do not want a co-op and who do not want a public option. they just don't want health care reform period. i think this is the unfortunate part of this. instead of them being partners in trying to figure out how to sfl this, they're playing this game of politics by distraction and becoming an ob sstaclobstac. >> jon kyl said today his party will not support a co-op. so what is the republican plan or do they have no plan and just believe that, well, costs ought to come down maybe if the insurance companies out of the goodness of their heart will bring it down? is that their plan? >> there are a number of things republicans would like. we're talking about tort reform, liability reform and making it a little easier for the she have employed to get the tax breaks

and give tax breaks to everybody to make it for affordable. i think it was on "morning joe" yesterday howard dean accidentally told the truth. a politician accidentally told the truth and he's like the guy who goes on stage and reads the director's instructions from the script in addition to the script. and he said that what's going to happen is they're going to take the public option out of the senate bill because it can't get through the senate with it. they'll probably keep it in the house bill because you've got those 100 or so far left liberals that will fight like hell to keep if in there. and then when they go into the conference he committee, when they go to reconciliation they will put the public option back in behind closed doors hoping the maerp people won't notice. if you thought people were hot under the collar at these town hall meetings in august wait and see if that happens. i don't know why howard dean would make that up. that's what i find really interesting and actually kind of disturbing, but i'm kind of glad

he blurted it out so at least we get a heads up. >> there is a fundamental differs between democrats and republicans. democrats believe health care should not have a massive for-profit component to it. a health insurance company shuz not be able to take 40 cents out of every dollar we pay and spend it on things like advertising, promotions, and profits. the democrats bloo he have that mon -- believe that money can be saved if you have the government running health care. is that the basic thrust of the disagreement? >> i think what republicans want and there's a lot of variations of this, but the government involvement as little as possible if at all. i don't think there's anything wrong with competition and capitalism with regard to the insurance company. when you start telling people they can't offer services and can't make money in this country, that's going to make people very, very nervous. >> except that's what we already have medicare and social security. that's what we have with the veterans administration. >> and some of that isn't working very well and it's braeshgi breaking the budget and it's not financially sound and we all

know that. the tactics of the democrats and the president in how they have approached this with ramming this through congress, trying to ram it through congress before they could go home and talk to their constituents in august, i think he lost the trust of the american people -- >> as opposed to the republicans who rammed through a lot of things -- >> we're talking about one-sixth of the economy. one-sixth of the economy. this is the difference. you know that. >> here is the ironic part about it. expose the hypocrisy of republicans. not a single republican, not one, i challenge any republican to come out and do it, will say they will vote against funding for medicare, medicaid, or veterans health care. the notion they're against a public option is laughable on its face. the message on a public option is very simple. what does it mean for americans? it means cheaper prices, better service. how do i know that? when you poll the american people when it comes to medicare, they like it better in terms of approval than they do private insurers. >> except for the track record for these co-ops is really bad. that's just a fact. >> no, that's not the fact. >> i think they found one that's

halfway decent in the whole country. >> well, that's a debate for another day, but cheri, chris, thank you both very much for coming on. >> and david we're following breaking news in beaumont, texas. a possible tornado has touched down in that area hitting a retail center. there's a kohl's store that the roof has collapsed. we're getting word from the local hospital in beaumont they currently say they have less than ten people with injuries. there are radio reports that there may be more people coming in. so far the good news, all patients are stable. most have cuts and lacerations due to falling debris. but when you look at that damage there with that roof collapse of that kohl's store midday in beaumont, texas, it certainly could have been much worse. we'll continue to follow this story and bring you the pictures as they come in. i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time. boss: come on in, i had some other things you can tell people about geico - great claims service and a 97% customer satisfaction rate. show people really trust us. gecko: yeah right, that makes sense. boss: trust is key when talking about geico. you gotta feel it. why don't you and i practice that with a little exercise where i fall backwards and you catch me. gecko: uh no sir, honestly... uh...i don't think...uh... boss: no, no. we can do this. gecko: oh dear.

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i love dancing, and when the producers for "dancing with the stars" gave me a call, i jumped right at the chance. this is going to be so fun and so crazy. i'm really looking forward to it. conservatives can let their hair down and open their collar and put on some dancing shoes so you can get out there on the floor just like the rest of them. >> former congressman tom delay talking about why he decided to join "dancing with the stars." he did say there would need to be negotiation if someone wanted him to wear sequins to go with the open shirt look. earlier today he posted a message on twitter saying headed to the studio for my first rehearsal and to meet my partner. hoping it's not nancy pelosi.

he will join chris matthews tonight on "hardball." here are a few things we thought our viewers should know. >> that's right. we begin with something we never thought we'd see. white house chief of staff rahm emanuel, the man nicknamed rambo, reading to kids as part of the education department's summer reading initiative. we found video from last week's event. you know we looked for that. we looked hard. a gentler, softer rahm reading "duck for president." >> farmer brown was furious. he ran to the barn and found the animals registering to vote. obviously not in chicago. the voters had spoken. duck was officially in charge. the biggest decision, what do you think he has to make? picking that chief of staff top man. that is a tough decision. you can go real wrong.

>> that's melody barnes sitting next to him. did at the put that music on. the white house put the music on. >> i don't think any of us have seen rahm that sweet. >> but he's a dad. it doesn't surprise me at all. >> monica, speaking of surprises, stephen colbert has received a lot of laughs for his interviews with members of congress. last night he challenged a congressman to funnel beer with him quoting the congressman saying working with beer is like going back to college. >> do you want to do a beer bong? >> no thanks. >> come on, man. hold that. >> coors light -- >> oh, good, from colorado. >> the silver bullet. >> let's do it. >> all right. get it up there. >> drink, drink, drink! >> ten years ago would anyone

ever think a politician could get away with that on national television? >> no, and i think we should point out, i think there were some words deleted, bleeped out there, monica? >> oh, yeah? >> i don't know. >> i don't either. if he had done it anywhere else, he'd be in trouble but he did it with colbert so it's okay. those are the things we just thought you should know. >> that's right. and monica, new nbc news poll shows a number of americans oppose a public option that would compete against private health insurers but that's just one poll that will be released later tonight. let's go to the stories we'll be watching heading into tomorrow. mark murray is nbc news deputy political director. >> we have that new nbc news poll on the health care debate that comes out. the entire poll at 6:30 tonight on "nbc nightly news," msnbc, and msnbc.com. also on the radar screen at the white house tomorrow president obama hosts an event with nascar

champion jimmie johnson and other fas cnascar as far as. and finally joe biden, he hits the road to florida to promote the administration's economic stimulus. >> monica, you take the question here. a lot of ways to go with mark. >> i was looking to see how much time we had left because i like to rib mark a little bit and you saw the tom delay quote today talking about letting his hair down. not a lot of hair to let down there, but he says he doesn't want nancy pelosi to be his partner. what do you think? >> the hammer, whether he's m.c. hammer or the political handler really can't ever get away from politics very much. he still has barbs for his democratic colleagues that reminds us of all of those back and forths in the 1990s and the 2000s. so he can't ever get away from politics, but it would be interesting to see tom delay and a beer bong. now, that would be something even more amazing than "dancing with the stars." >> i have a feeling that's something mark murray is quite

familiar with, monica. >> a long time ago. >> mark murray, we appreciate. tom delay is not coming on "hardball" tonight. sorry for the wrong tease. make sure to check out first read first thing every morning. i'm david shuster. >> monica novotny. stick around for "hardball." chris matthews, up next. anger management. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, the numbers behind the anger. okay. we've got a new nbc news poll. it gives you a good idea of why a lot of people are angry about the health care reform push. and it shows that the reasons for this anger concern the health care plan will pay for illegal immigrants, will poi for abortion, will lead to a government takeover of health care are all basically unfounded. the bill that passes congress

and gets signed by the president this year is not going to do any of those things. meanwhile, while many people are worried that the government will try to do too much with health care, liberal democrats in the house of representatives are saying the president may not do enough. that he's not fighting hard enough to get what's called the public option. a government-run insurance plan to complement and compete with the plan sold by insurance companies. u.s. congressman anthony wiener is one of those liberals who wants to see the government run health care financing period. he sees no reason to even have private insurance companies. he's precisely by the way what conservatives fear most, the liberal who wants a single payer system. a liberal who wants government and only government financing health care. we're going to have him on to explain his position. he's coming here to "hardball" tonight. and we have to talk gun play tonight. protesters are again bringing loaded guns to rallies outside president obama's town hall meetings. this guy in phoenix yesterday was carrying an ar-15 semi-automatic rifle. no permits required, no arrests made. you can believe these people are merely