tv The Ed Show MSNBC August 19, 2009 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
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direction. so i thought i would help them out tonight again. health care is a not a split issue. look at this, 91% of people want some kind of health care reform in this country. that's from our msnbc news poll of yesterday. now, people who don't want reform? well, they're elected republicans. they want to see the president fail. they made that clear time and time again. it's time for the president to draw a line in the sand in public option. if you can't stand up to the republican option, i don't think he deserves the support from the left. robert reich says we need a march on washington for health care reform. i'm okay with that. i proposed that some time ago as well, but i thought we had a march on washington. it was called inauguration day. these are just some of the millions of people who got the president elected. after being kicked in the teeth
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for eight years by the bush administration and the republicans on health care, are you through allow that happen again? i don't think liberals are going to have any stomach for sup supporting democrats in the next election if they can't show some spine and stand up to the very people that put them in office or in power, if you want to call it that. now, there's a lot of numbers that are being tossed around out there when it comes to health care. let me give you a couple of numbers. let's see, 10, 12 and 14. as in mid-term, presidential election and then another mid-term. it's a generational fight. if the democrats fail to get health care reform, voters will see them as weak and ineffective leaders. the republicans want to rush. they want to push, and they want to pull. they want to do it all. this is an election coming up that they are going to do nothing but demonize the democrats. so the staal game is what it's all about. oh, there's going to be a september staal, you can count on it. now, in 2010, 12 or 14, the
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democrats, folks, they may not have the majority. they may not have 60 seats in the senate. they might not have a majority in the house the way it's going. this is a defining moment for president obama and the people who put him in office. our news poll shows roughly, if you can believe this, half the americans out there believe four of the biggest most disgusting lies about democrats' health care plan. the republicans are feeding the lying machine. and yet obama officials are ready to throw their own base overboard for some watered down piece of garbage bill written on republican toilet paper. the white house is living in a vacuum if they think liberals aren't serious about dropping their support. there's a divide being created. they kept saying, well, we're close. close to what? close to cave into grassley and his buffoon whence it comes to health care reform. the republicans on this issue,
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they're free trader, but when it comes to health care, they ear protectionists. they're not progressives. now, what they're protecting is the insurance industry. draw your line in the sand, mr. president, and you will see ground swell support for your administration, your agenda and your party. you cave in, mr. president, you cave in on this, and i think a lot of these people who came out and supported you and got into the process for the first final time, the fear here on the progressive side, the liberal side, the fear is they could be gone and this opportunity could be dreadfully missed. get your cell phones out, it's time for the text survey. here's the question tonight. is president obama willing to say no toby partisanship? text 8 for yes, b for no to 622639. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now is former vermont governor and former dnc chair, dr. howard dean and also the
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author of the book howard dean's prescription for real health care reform. good to have you with us tonight. >> ed, tell us how you really feel about this? >> well, i feel it's time to fish or cut bait. i feel the republicans have staked their claim. no to public option, no to co-op, which i think is a joke any way, but when is the president going to realize the republicans aren't serious about reform, and i would like ewe to speak to that. >> act actually, let me say two things. i think the events of thf weekend were defining in the sengs that the republicans made it clear they have no interest in helping in any way to pass health care reform that's a pattern of theirs. they used it against bill clinton but they used it against barack obama. i don't think any voted for the stimulus bill in the house and maybe one or two in the senate.
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the president knows how to get big legislation passed the congress. although the american people would like bipartisanship, the republicans are not inclined to do that so we're on our own. that's a good thing. now we can get down to business of seriously drafting a bill that will work. this is really not a left versus right issue or a liberal issue. i'm not in this because i'm an ideological left winger. if i were, i would be for single-payer. i'm in this because this works. they can go to the public option or stick with the private insurer. >> there are a lot of democrats dpis pinted thinking the president haven't been strong enough on the public option. is it time in your opinion for him to step up and tell the
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grassleys of the world this is where we're going to go on health care reform. you're either with us or you're against us because this is where the american people are. what do you think about the president drawing that line in the sand? >> i think when the president draws lines in the sand it ought to be privately not publicly. this is the president's decision time right now. i think you're right about that. a lot of the people in the sprun party would like health care reform and pen fit from it. i think it's going to happen. i think we seal a bill in the president's desk in december. i think it will contain a nice strong public option and also the opportunity to get health care for all americans. >> that's what makes me nervous. senator conrad over on the senate finance committee has made it very clear in interviews there a their votes for a public option do not exist in the senate. >> that's not so.
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what he has said is there's not a majority of the votes but there's a huge majority of the votes in the caucus. i don't believe for a moment he's going to vote against health care reform. >> he said at a town hall meet just last thursday, he said he would not vote -- and he used the word vote -- he would not vote for health care reform that includes a government-run plan. that's a public option. >> he's trying to do his best to get out of that the next day. he claimed he was misquoted. i think these democrat senators are going to do the right thing for the country. look, the blue dogs in my opinion, and many don't agree with me, i think the blue dogs and progressives came to a very good compromise in the house.
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the health care legislation and von convention, i'm relying on the finance committee to do the same thing. they're not interested in any kind of compromise. >> and if we can't get the public option, what should the president do? where should his leadership take this country, should he just say to the republicans okay, no reform this year, let's go to midterm and we'll let the people decide and let them pay the price. what about that strat sgli. >> no. we've got to have a bill and it's going to have to be a strong bill. the public rewards strong leadership, not weak leadership. the president knows what has to be in the bill and he knows we're going to have to have one and it's going to be a good one. it's going to have a strong public option in it.
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>> thanks for being with us. i told you this is a defining moment for president obama. jonathan alter wrote the book "the defining moment" about fdr. he's also a senior editor for "newsweek." great to have you back. we're hot and heavy in this. good to have you off vacation. >> is this a defining moment for president obama in the totality of trying to get reform? >> i think the next six weeks are. you don't want to say it's just this week, but he will have a huge defining moment when he goes before a joint session of congress which i expect him to do. i don't have any inside knowledge that he's doing this, but i would expect he's going to have to go to the country and the best format for him is the one that he used, you know, last winter where he performs very, very well. that will be a true moment of truth if he can bring the country with him on this legislation. i think it's a terrible idea, by the way, just to go -- because
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you and i have known each other for a while. putting this off and taking it to the people in 2010, we can't do that. we've got to get this done. now there's too many other important parts in this bill that are frankly much more important than a public option. we need to stom kicking sick people when they're down. we've outlawed discrimination against sick people. the idea that this bill is toilet paper if there's no public option is nonsense. >> i will tell you how liberals will view this and democrats who supported president obama will view this. if it doesn't address pre-existing conditions -- >> it must. >> it must. but the republicans will never go along with that. >> forget the republicans. >> but they won't let it go
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through. >> we're talking now about democrat, and the assumption that all democrats, conrad and all the rest are somehow going to be crow barred for going for some particular version for this bill, the legislative process is a give and take. if they can come up with a co-op that is super strong, super glue. >> liberals wouldn't take that. >> they should. they're being fools. >> it's not going to bring costs down. it's been tried before and it hasn't worked. >> it's been on the local and state basis. first of all, health care economists don't know that. nobody knows. you can create this up. i'm for a republican option. i think they should go to the mat for a public option. >> i don't want them drawing lines in the sand. that you don't get legislation
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done. almost nobody who voted for barack obama for president voted for him because he was for a public option. the guy was against mandates during the pry marps the particulars of this are not as important as the largest principle. what is the principle? stop discriminating against people who are sick. keep your eye on the ball here. >> jonathan, i'm not. i'm a healthy guy, but my premium went up 20% last year, 19% the year before that. it's killing the middle class. how are you going to guarantee competition. the co-op won't do that. >> you can do it with serious heavy duty unprecedented regulation of the wicked insurance industry. >> the republicans are going to filibuster that. >> you've got reconciliation. we're talking about getting
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democrats, okay? i'm with you. i agree with howard dean that's clarifying that now we can just deal with democrats. but this assumption that all democrats are necessarily going to go along with a particular version of this bill is unrealistic. they don't want to go with a public option. you're a health care economist? you know for sure that it's the only way that we can -- no, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. >> okay, let's skin a cat on single payer then. >> it's a means to an end. >> siej payer, can i see some cbo figures and an actuary on single-payer? 'i'm for single-payer, by the way. >> i know you are. bottom line, this president went out on the campaign trail in '07 and talked about reforming health care and talked about going after the insurance industry. >> he didn't talk about a public option. >> he talked about it all along.
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>> he was against an employer mandate. without an employer man date, they are details. you don't know a public option to cover every american. you can do it by laws. let's be clear what a public option is. >> i know exactly what a public option is. you can get in it or stay where you are right now or have no insurance at all. >> it's a means to an end. >> there's pre-existing condition will be eliminated with a public option. and republicans will never go if for that. >> american people don't understand that what this bill is about is not the public option. it's about ending -- >> to them it is pop it's about ending discrimination. most people when you drill down, most people don't understand the details of this.
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>> here's the deal -- >> look, if you are -- the core of this legislation -- >> is getting democrats onboard and doing what they were elected to do. >> ending discrimination against people with pre-existing situations. and the public option is a means to that. >> and get the republicans out of the way, because they are obstructionist. they will never go through with this reform. they will never go. >> i agree with that. but liberals are driving themselves over the cliff -- >> jonathan alter from "newsweek," written some great stuff. you believe that it's a civil right issue. we've got to have you come back and talk about that. that's what i thought we were going to talk about tonight. >> liberals don't want to go over the cliff with this. >> i think they do. i think they do want -- >> don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
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>> no, no, no. you have to draw the line. no, no, no! joan jonathan, i respect you so much but i'm telling you where the people are on this.. >> it's a negotiation. >> you can't negotiate with grassley. >> not with grassley. >> jon kyl said he won't negotiate. my next guest says i'm lying about it. jonathan ator is a great guy. we do this at work when we're not on tv. ) ( music throughout ) hey bets, can i borrow a quarter? sure, still not dry? i'm trying to shrink them. i lost weight and now some clothes are too big. how did you do it? simple stuff. eating right and i switched to whole grain. whole grain... studies show that people who eat more whole grain tend to have a healthier body weight. multigrain cheerios has five whole grains... and 110 calories per lightly sweetened serving. more grains. less you. multigrain cheerios.
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welcome back to "the ed show." i got a little heated last night. here we are, night number two. our passionate and honest debate, let's talk money if we can tonight. because if there's one thing the obama administration has not done is completely detail how they want to pay for any kind of reform that they're doing. the president has said revenue now? central, not going to add to the dpef sit. the math that i'm doing, i don't know how they can do it without a tax increase. let me ask you, what would be wrong with repealing the bush
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tax cuts and getting that money back from the top 2%. why would you would be against that? >> because i want people to continue to have jobs. in fact, right now one of the things holding back the economy is knowing the bush tax cuts are going to expire. so people know there's an automatic tax increase already coming up in the next year or two. and so they're already holding back. >> so you think people aren't out creating jobs because they think the bush tax krut kuts are going to be repealed? >> that's one thing. plenty of people in businesses know even apart of what may come out of this congress, this president, they already know that automatic tax increases are coming in. >> i talked to a lot of middle classers that wouldn't be bothered at all. that is a theory that if we
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repeal the bush tax cut, the economy is going to be hurt even more, that if we keep these tax cuts in place for the top 2%, that the economy is going to flourish. i think it's manufacturing and that's a different story. if you repeal the bush tax cuts you're going to pay for the health care reform on the table right now, at least the last numbers that we had. but why is it that the republicans seem to be against any kind of reform. they're against the public option, the co-op. jon kyl is saying he's against it. dot republicans want anything to change? . >> the notion that those tax increases, whether they're automatic or additional ones would pay for the obama tax plans is not so. he claims most of it is going to come from cutting medicare and medicaid expenditures. >> he's not going to cut
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medicare and medicaid. >> he say wes ear going to cut the reimbursement rates going to the hospital. >> no, no, no. not to the hospitals. mr. istook that's not true. i give you credit -- >> year after year, the claim by congress would save by future cuts. >> the medicare reimbursement rates are going to have to change, there's no question by that. but you're going to get that by repealing the bush tax kwuts. . >> but the money doesn't come from the bush tax cuts. >> you were handed a surplus and we ended up with record deficits, record foreign debt. i want to know, where is the republican plan. if you handed me a plan tonight, what would it be? >> well, there's not one plan that's a democrat plan. there's not one plan that's a republican plan. you can talk to senator mike enzi, senator jim demint, all of whom have introduced legislation on proposals to make health care
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more affordable. congressman tom price, congressman john shadegg. >> you're throwing names at me. name one senator that has got legislation on the table from the republican party that's willing to reel in and regulate the insurance industry? >> you're not asking whether people have legislation to help the public, you're asking whether people have legislation that goes along with your approach. >> you don't think reeling in the insurance tindustry is goin to help the public? >> you claim they don't have a plan. they have lots of plans you just don't like their plans. it's intellectually honest to say you don't like their plans but to say there's no plan being put forth by people who have an r after their name is not accurate. >> okay, i tell you what. here's what i would like you to do. i would like you to pick whatever plan you like on the
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republican side who has ever -- who's authored this. you threw some names out, get them on the program and i'll give them two segments on this show to explain what their plan is because i don't think it exists. it's not there. reform is not there for republicans. they're against everything. >> that's a great idea and it's fair. >> exactly. unedited microphone is a greatest thing on the face of the earth, my friend. good to have you on with us. up next, gop fear mongerer? frank lund on health care.
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the mastermind behind the gop behind the health care reform, frank luntzs. last night, luntzs stepped up to the plate. >> barack obama from this language, it's almost like he's declaring war in medicare because it's the only way for him to be able to pay for health care. they are talking about loring the reimbursements for medicare. >> hold it right there. that is a flat-out lie. let me be very clear on this. factcheck.org and the aarp state
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clearly that none of the bills being considered in the congress would lower reimbursements for medicare. now, here's what would actually happen. the house bill would trim projected increases in payments to hospitals, insurance companies and pharmaceutical company, but it would increase payments to doctors. and it would lower prescription drug costs for people in that notorious medicare part d doughnut hole. none of the proposals would cut benefits or increase out of pocket expenses for seniors. period. nada. ain't going to happen. so the latest gop attack that the president is declaring war on medicare, you know what that is? lying psycho talk. and coming up, you know, i've got a tip for all your town hall whack cos out there, steer clear of barney frank. don't be messing with barney. we'll show you what happened at
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a town hall last night when he took on a protestor. he'll show you how to talk to them. plus, thousands of the faithful just wrapped up a conference call with the president of the united states. the mission is to make all americans realize this is a moral issue, a key leader of the movement joins me with reaction in my "playbook." access to favorite courses chef's meal with pommes frites perhaps a night at the theater with extra special seats additional hotel night, our treat your world in perfect harmony: priceless look for world on your mastercard to get rewards and offers that matter to you. the cleaner you feel. olay deep cleansers go beyond what the eye can see. they remove 2 times more dirt and make-up
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all last year, they knocked on doors, raised money, got out the vote, did it all. so comments like this really burn me up. here's an anonymous obama adviser quoted in "the washington post" today. i don't understand why the wleft of the left have decided this is their waterloo, said a senior white house adviser who spoke on
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the condition of anonymity. we've gotten to the point where the left is determined by the dreadth of the public option. i don't understand how that has become the measure of whether what we achieve is health care reform. okay, this is what's known as a five-second cooling off period. i wonder where the left of the left got the idea that a public option was key to health care reform. >> i also strongly believe that one of the options in the exchange should be a public insurance option. >> the option out there for people where the free market fails. we should have a public plan to compete with the private plans. but, you know, these private insurance companies are telling me what a great deal that they give to the american consumer. if it's such a great deal why are thworried about competing wh
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a public plan. we will not sign a bill that isn't right for the american people. and i'm for the public option. >> joining me now is congressman dennis kucinich. congressman great to have you back on "the ed show." is the president playing this correctly? is he patience going to pay off or is it time for him to get tough are republicans in your opinion? >> first of all, you raised a question about the left and i think it is all about the left. it's about 47 million left without insurance, another 50 million left as uninsured. millions left bankrupt because they can't afford to pay hospital bills. it's about what's left. i think that the president needs to go back to the drawing board actually. because the only true public option that will work is hr 676, the bill that i drafted with
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john conyers which is a single-payer not-for-profit bill that recognizes one out of every $3 goes for activities of the for-profit system. this is what the whole fight is about. it's about a fight over $800 billion. and the insurance companies will stop at nothing to hold on to the american people's wallet when it comes to health insurance. >> so with that landscape and the way you see it and the way i see it is the president gambling with the base that put his administration in office and also put the majorities in the house and the senate? i mean, i get it all the time from people on the radio and e-mails and messaging that look, they're fed up with the niceties to the republicans. they're not serious about a public option and certainly not serious about single-payer. so when does the president step up in your opinion? >> well, this is bigger than the. >> but he's the leader on this. this is his issue.
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>> it is, but i would suggest to you, ed, that this issen issue that's even bigger than the president of the united states. democrats have to go back to the people, not trying to force hr-3200 downaire throats but to listen at those town hall meetings to what people have to say about their experience with insurance companies. insurance companies make money not providing health care. if we hear from the people then we can build the ground swell necessary to pass a bill. >> why are the democrats in the senate missing this? and why has the white house had a hard time communicating the message. the nbc poll last night, very clear. four big lies, more than 50% of the american people believe the republican lives being thrown out there. somebody is not saying straight talk to the american people and where they stand from the white house. >> the message has been mishandled. i think that is something many people with agree on. when you see that, you don't go forward into the breech. you step back and you start over. you know what, there's time to
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start over without any embarrassment by listening to what the american people are saying by seeing the confusion that's considerable and looking at the interest groups that are trying to tilt the balance against the public interest. i think that we need to go back to the people in town hall meetings everywhere where we hear about people's experience with the insurance companies. no one is talking about that. >> what about this political strategy -- don't do health care reform, blame the republicans, they're the obstructionists, let's go back to the polls in the midterm. what do you think? >> i don't know. i mean, there's an underlying issue of the economy. people are out of work, they're losing their homes, their jobs. that goes into the mix. people are frustrated. they see wall street getting trillions in bailouts and they're wondering, hey, where's my bailout? this health care -- >> is a bailout to a lot of americans. it's a big help. >> well, there is a bailout for insurance companies.
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since government is subsidizing insurance companies and for the pharmaceutical company, ed, who are getting the gift of a ten-year extension to the medicare part d, taking the caps off the price controls. and drug companies don't have to worry about the drug reportation costs. this is a giveaway to private and pharmaceutical interests and frankly, i don't think -- i think we should be finished with government subsidizing the private sector. >> congressman, great to have you on. you're a great fighter to the people. i know things are a heck of a lot better in the house than they are the senate when it comes to understanding all of this. >> thanks, ed. kucinich.us. check it out. weave been keeping a close watch on the senate race in pennsylvania. today on twitter, arlen specter wrote -- people who like their current insurance ought to be able to keep it, but let's have
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one more choice, a public option. his challenger is a strong supporter of the public option. he said he would find it hard to vote for a bill without a public option. coming up, when jesus walked the face of the earth, he was feeding the hungry, clothing the poor and healing the sick. he didn't ask anybody for their insurance card and he didn't heal anybody for profit. i'll talk to a key religious leader who's calling out the president. next in my "playbook." stay with us these days, when you have to spend, shopping online can help save. doing it with bank of america can help save a lot more. up to 20% cash back from over 300 online retailers with our add it up program. just sign up and use your bank of america debit or credit card when you shop online. it's one of the many ways we make saving money in tough times a whole lot easier.
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how religious leaders need to be speaking up in the fight for reform, making sure americans are covered is really a moral issue. and i'm not the only one who thinks so. christian, jewish and muslim leaders across the country have joined forces in a national campaign for health care reform. and just in the last hour, they heard directly from the president of the united states on a conference call. joining me now is reverend jim wallace, the president of so adjourners. he participated in the conference call this evening. thanks for joining us. the morality of this, if we doe not take care of offer up the opportunity to cover all american americans, what does that say about us as a nation morally? >> well america of us in the faith community have gotten very concerned because with all the shouting and the anger and the hate now we're seeing in town
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meetings, we're losing, i fear the moral core of this debate, which is a lot of people are hurting in this broken health care system. as you said, 47 million haven't got insurance. but even those who do can't -- don't get what they need, can't afford to be healthy in america. so this is a moral issue. as you said before, for jesus, healing was a sign of the kingdom of god. it's also not nice to lie and a lot of people are lying in this whole debate. we felt we had to speak out tonight. we had a great conference call. tens of thousands of people came on the call. >> what did the president say? >> well, it was good. he said number one, not just how important health care is, but he said this is a moral issue. this is a moral imperative. so many people are left outside this health care system. and he said the role of the faith commune city critical. he pointed out that historically, all the great
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social movements, really, that have been successful have had the faith community at the heart of it. so i think he called it for a victory of hope over fear. right now, fear is controlling this debate. and we have to start talking about truth telling, telling truth, and then what is the moral core? we can't lose the moral core, which is people, our friends, our neighbors, our loved ones are hurting the broken system. it has to be fixed and the faith community is not going to settle for anything less, ed, than full, accessible health care coverage for all of god's children. >> so the faith community isn't going to settle for anything less than everybody getting covered? >> absolutely. not at all. >> all right, this is the president tonight on that conference call, an excerpt from it, here it is. >> i know there's been a lot of misinformation in this debate. and there are some folks out there who are frankly bearing false witness. these are all fabrications that have been put out there in order to discourage people from
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meeting what i consider to be a core ethical and moral obligation, and that is that we look out for one another. that i am my brother's keeper, my sister's keeper. and in the wealthiest nation on earth right now, we are neglecting to live up to that call. '. >> reverend wall liis, i've got ask you, the more visible religious leards in this country, the guys that get on tv a lot, that attract millions of viewers and what not, why have they been so silent? does that puzzle you at all? >> on the call tonight we had evangelical pastors, catholics, jews, muslims. all kind of folk. many are very prominent. i think you're going to hear a steady moral drum beat from the faith community for accessible, full coverage for all americans, all of god's children.
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>> so would that support a public option? in definition would that support what the president wants? >> the bottom line, we have to make sure everybody gets covered. all those who were left out, those who don't have enough insurance, we have to make sure everyone is covered and we have to start telling the truth. so however we do it. our job is to say, let justice roll down by waters, righteousness is like an ever flowing stream. let the politicians work on the plumbing. but our job is to do what has to be done and we won't settle for anything less than full coverage for all of god's children in this country. that is a moral imperative. >> welcome back. i feel good touk talking to you. >> people can listen to this, it's already online. it's at sojo.net/healthcare. you can listen to it tonight. it was a great conversation.
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>> pray for us. >> keep quoting jesus. >> well, he was healing the sick, i certainly know that. appreciate your time, reverend. and one last page in my "playbook" tonight. barney frank faced amped up protestors. and the congressman who is jewish, took on a woman clutching a picture of president obama, made to look like hitler. check out how barney frank threw it right back at her. >> why are you willing to support a nazi policy? >> when you ask me that question, i'm going to revert to my ethnic heritage and answer your question with a question -- on what planet do you spend most of your time? having a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table. i have no interest in doing it.
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>> and i guess you could say that's how it's done, folks. congressman frank directly engaged these nut jobs, pointing out how dumb they sound and pointing out the inherent ignorance of their arguments he took away their soap boxes. i just wish more democrats would show some backbone that way. coming up, people are losing faith in the system when it comes to health care reform. mr. president, surrender is not an option. if you give up on us, there's going to be held to pay, i think. i'll put that to our panel next on "the ed show." a a a a a a aa
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democratic strategist jamal simmonds with us, joe, let me ask you, is there any evening wigle room with your audience on the radio when it comes to a government-run program when it comes to the private sector? >> absolutely none. not 100%, and you can't usually say that about my audience. as a matter of fact, today my frustration level got so high, and i understand inside the belt way politics, i understand the arithmetic in the house and the senate, but ed, i'm suggesting that the same coalitioning that brought barack obama to the
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white house has to step up now. i heard someone suggesting this is like the civil rights movement. we need -- and i'm saying this to labor, i'm saying this to hollywood, i'm saying this to 40 million uninsured people, we need a march on washington between now and october. and i bet you that those eight blue dog democrats, when they look out on that mall and they can see hundreds of thousands of people, it will make a difference. they said about martin luther king in 1965, make me do it. >> can the white house get back on point? >> a lot of us aren't sure what their plan is. we don't know how they're going to pay for health care reform. we're not sure whether they want a public option or not. i think what they've done here that's hurt them is they've given so much of the authority
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to determine this reform to the hill, a lot of it was in response to what happened to the clintons, they've given so much of this to the hill that it's hard for me and others to know precisely what the president wants. >> sot method has backfired in a sense? >> i think there was a sweet spot in the middle. but i just want to say this, it's not just the blue dogs that are backing away from the public option. you have vick snyder. he's here from have it little ro rock, he's known as a liberal and he's backed away from a public option. >> we'll, it could cost him. there's talks of utilizing the clin tons. is that a possibility? could they be used at this point? >> they might be. i don't know if they will or not. this president has his own voice and the americans voted for him because they trusted him to pull off a health care plan. but if we don't get a public
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option, and i'm far public option. we ought to have one, if we don't get a public option, this bill will make it illegal if you raise my premiums because i get sick. it will make it illegal to raise my premiums because my co-worker got cancer. and now you want to charge me more money. we have to get rid of the pre-existing condition problem. we've got to stay focused on the bigger issue. >> panel, sorry short on time tonight. it got away from us. have you back for sure. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. see you tomorrow night. time to close the deal. let's play "hardball." good evening. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, the closer. barack obama knows how to win. he got into columbia he went to harvard law, made president of the law review, within a seat in the u.s. senate, won the democratic nomination for president and overtook john
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mccain to win the job. he closes well. and now it's time to start the kick for health care reform. the make or break test of his first year presidency. it's going to take a strong close for him to win, to claim the kind of breek break through that will make the history books. the way i see it, he's got three ways to go at this point. one, they can challenge the senate rules and ram through a bill with just 50 votes with the help of the vice president to break the tie. that's what today's lead in the new york times suggested they're threatening to do. number two, they can go for a moderate bill politically sellable to a few republicans and get the 60 senate votes needed for regular passage. three they can go back and build a dramatic rock 'em sock 'em liberal bill, stand ready to take the loss and blame the republicans for the failure. what all three option require is democratic unity of some kind. you can't even blame the re
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