gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. next on "msnbc saturday," bracing for bill the hurricane. where is it now? where is it headed? who needs to worry? live reports coming up. also ahead -- crunch time for cash for clunkers. car dealers gear up for busier showrooms while some put the clunker program in park. vacation relief for president obamaing but how will his r&r affect health care reform efforts. private parts, why a question over the track star's gender may not be simple to answer. good morning, everyone. welcome to msnbc saturday, i'm alex witt. past 9:00 a.m. eastern, 6:00 out west. a tropical storm warning remains in effect for massachusetts, as hurricane bill barrels toward bermuda.

bill's downgraded to a category 2 hurricane with winds near 105 miles an hour. let's take a look at pictures just it to us from cape cod. some waves and rip currents are keeping residents out of the water. lots of fog as well. for more all of this, todd santos with the weather channel forecast. good morning. >> good morning. we've been talking about the wave action all morning. we did see some of the wave in the background. i'm on a map behind me, you can see numbers in feet abouys to te south, that was at 27 feet. you can certainly expect north of that, talking big waves. 8.2 off cape cod, that's off georgia's bank, that's where we go from a thousand-foot plus deep watt in the ocean to 200 and less than 100 feet off the coast lean. see how the waves build close tort coastline? the wave forecast certainly verifying at this point the coastline, even cape cod and areas near cape hatteras we

could be seeing 12 to potentially 15-foot wave. there's a look at the system off the coastline. show arizona long southern new england extending through mid c mid-atlantic states through to a frontal boundary that will stall and we'll see messy conditions tomorrow as well. at least cape cod may get clipped by the winds. the edge at best, we're talking potentially tropical storm force wins. there's a look at the path. a good distance to spec taspec tate near the coastline. nova scioscia may be hit with a category 1 storm. there's one more look at tropical storm warnings, all of the areas in blue, especially along long island, high surf advisories. from the studio now, to weather channel meteorologist mike seidel, live on jones beach in new york. what's the situation there now? >> reporter: alex, a beautiful, sunny, saturday morning here at jones beach. temperatures now in the mid 70s, heading up to low 80s.

we had a lot of heavy rain earlier, not from bill. more rain, not from bill. and hardly any wind. take a look at surf. these are the waves, swell propagating from hundreds of miles away from bill. they have shut down the beach for swimming. you can come out on the beach, a lot of spectators taking pictures, getting toes wet, if you go further out the life gars will glow you in. this happens, i've been told this happens without bill, but look at all of the water out there pooling around the trash cans. the red flags are up. the lifeguards out there on their chair and they're a little bit of a dune, a hill of sand over there. the bested avisz anywhere up and down the east coast, enjoy the day if you're at the beach, not dealing with rainfall like we will have to up here. but stay out of the water. many beaches have just told their swimmers are, you can go in, you're got to stay on the beach, it's too risky, it's too dangerous. they don't want to have to deal with rescue after rescue and the

risk of people drowning. >> smart advice, both from you and those live guards. thank you, mike dseidel. keep it here on the latest on hurricane bill. take a look at hal ilton in bermuda. president obama tackling outrageous myths about health reform. >> immigrants would not be covered, that idea has never been on the table. some are also saying the coverage for abortions would be mandated under reform. as every credible person who has looked into it has said there are no death panels, an offensive notion to me with the american people. >> joins by mike viqueira. another good saturday morning to you. >> reporter: good morning. >> lawmakers on both sides of the argument are saying today they're dealing with rumors and myths as well. so it's bipartisan rumors and myths. >> reporter: alex, certainly a difficult summer for the president's health reform initiative, no question about

it. start with the fact that in july he asked both the house and senate to pass separate versions of the legislation. they were unable to do so. move into august, same law makers are go home, we get an earful. scenes of angry citizens over plans circulating in washington. the president has been on defense about misleading information. not only people from town halls, but they are saying president obama is not telling the compete truth about what his plan would do. representative tom price, one republican, he's an orthopedist from georgia. here what happens he had to say. >> the president has said he'd like to stamp out some of the disinformation floating around out there. the problem is, the president, himself, plays fast and loose with the facts. the president regularly tells americans that, if you like your

plan, you can keep your plan. experts agree that, under the house bill, millions of americans will be forces off of their personal, private coverage and shuffled on to the government plan. >> reporter: well, alex, perhaps it's time for everybody to take a deep breath at this point. the president, for his part, in sconce with his family at camp david, tomorrow scheduled to begin a week-long vacation on martha's vin yard. congress continues out of town after labor day. they try to move this bill through the house and the senate. >> so much to watch. thank you for your help as always, mike viqueira. tomorrow on "meet the press" key players from the health care debate, senate finance committee member orrin hatch and charles schumer tell david gregory where health reform stands now. libyan leader ka dagadhafi grateful to britain for

releasing abdel magrahi released on kags fate grounds because he has terminal cancer. u.s. and british officials condemned the hero's welcome he received in libya. he says he'll present evidence that proves he's innocence. nbc news learned a cia report detailing mock executions could be released monday a report kept secret since 2004. the report says cia officials threatens one detainee with a gun and power drill, and they staged a fake execution in a room next to one detainee, complete with a gunshot to make it seem like a prisoner had just been killed. "newsweek's" michael isikoff tells rachel maddow the report will be es pleaexplosionsives. >> mock executions, threatening a detainee with death that clearly seemed to go beyond the

justice department legal authorizations, and that's why these are so significant. >> the rachel maddow show week nights 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. new developments in the international search for a reality tv contestant accused of killing his ex-wife. the u.s. marshall service is off offing a $25,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of that man, ryan jenkins who may be hiding in his native canada right now. jenkins appeared on the vh-1 show "megan wants a millionaire" and charges with murdering model jasmine fiore. the 28-year-old mutilated body found in a dumpster in orange county, california, a week ago today. stuffed in a suitcase with her fingers and teeth removed. live from washington, d.c., msnbc analyst former fbi prof e profiler clint van zandt author of "facing down evil." another good morning to you. every time i read about this poor woman's teeth take be out and fingers cut off of her

mutilated body, it just brings up disturbing details in the case. obviously the killer did this to allow for no identification. but they did find out who jasmine was through, what, breast implants? how did that work? >> breast implants like an artificial knee or an elbow or artificial heart, everything like that has a serial number, and you know, you always hate for this stuff to get out, alex, because what are we go to see next time? a terrible monster who removes fingers teeth and implants to try to disguise the victim's identity? it worked for us this time, we were able to find out who it was. we've got a lot more to deal with in the future on this case and on future cases because bad guys watch tv and read the news and get educated too. >> yeah. you talk about this person as a horrible monster. who would do something like this? what kind of mindset would someone have to have to carry out something like this? >> a narcissistic sociopath a

guy who thinks he's the sun and rest of us are the moon and stars and we circle around him. if there which mistake made, in this particular case, this woman met and married this guy within two weeks. not that i'm the epitome of all wisdom but years ago i told my children, when you meet someone you need to know them for a year before you commit to a life long relationship. this woman did it within two weeks. i guarantee she didn't know who she was deal with. she didn't know the face behind the mask, which was a monster. >> yeah. all right. clint van zandt, thank you for your insight. luck runs 0 ount sin city. don't bet on los angeles if you need a job. bruising for a brew, a woman sentenced to be canser for drinking beer. canes, rather. sex in the sprinter, how could the track star's genter

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hurricane bill right now is accelerating north. and later today, it's expected to make a turn northeast. bill is still a category 2 hurricane at this hour. weather channel meteorologist jim cantore joining us live by phone where from bermuda. looking at pictures you provided us from bermuda and the surf there. but good morning to you, what's up? >> reporter: what you don't see in the pictures is the amount of salt spray in the air and that does take its toll on some of the cameras out here and that's why i can't come to you with live pictures. but basically the worst is over, okay? for bermuda i should say. we're going to see squalls and

gusts over tropical storm force. but for the most part, the worst is over. talks to a lot of locals they're like, this wasn't a big deal at all for us here, we had a lot of little debris, a lot of leaf doo debris but no major structural damage whatsoever. so the island's fared well. apparently at the height 2,000 people without power. and you know for an island of 60,000, pretty dog gone good. that can happen in a thunderstorm in a small town. unofficially, top gusts 95 miles an hour at commission point and that's higher up, so that wouldn't surprise me at all. i do think the top of the hills we had hurricane force gusts last night. no confirmation of a tornado though they saw one trying to develop last night. the biggest issues here have been the beach erosion because of the wave action. we've lost three to four feet of the beach, elbow beach, where i am on the south shore. think about bermuda, it's a 21-mile small letter j, okay? and we're on that southern part

of the "j." the the dot on top of the small j is where the airport is. once they open the causeway bridge, they'll get over there, clean the runway, aircraft will be allowed in, once the winds die down a bit. right now tentatively, 2:00 opening for the airport here in bermuda. so people can get out. some of them are v. been wanting to get out since saturday. all in all we fared well. this thing didn't give us a direct hit or we would have been worse like fabian in 2004. people need to stay out of the water. a dangerous situation there. that's something we want to encourage this weekend. >> given the horizontal sheets of rain you were enduring last night i hope you get a couple of nice hours in bermuda before you take out. jim cantore, thank you. get the latest minute by minute news on hurricane bill from the weather channel at weather.com. to politics now. health care reform, fact versus

fiction. today the republican party says president obama's playing fast and loose with the facts on health care. this, as the president and leading democrats reportedly consider pushing through a partisan plan. i'm joined live from washington by anne kornblut reporter for "the washington post." good morning. >> good to see you. >> in this republican response, anne, the gop says you will be forced to give up your private health care in certain situations. the president is saying that is a myth. you will be able to keep your private health insurance if you wish. what is truth here? is there one yet? >> well, getting to the bottom of it is obviously difficult. there is not a single truth at this point because there's not a single bill. all of the indications i've gotten from people looking at bill is that people would not actually be forces off their private insurance. but again there are now several versions of this, three in the house, one in the senate, another one being worked on in the senate, and that's one reason that it's been difficult for the white house to respond to these accusations.

this, of course, is sort of a mild accusation, compares with what we've seen in recent weeks the more outrageous accusation business death panels and the like. but this is one reason that the message has been so diffuse. >> speaking of the message, the debates, speeches, town halls, have they changed at all, the status of the health care bill? >> on the question of whether they've changed the momentum, i think even the white house wouldn't disagree that it's been slowed somewhat. there was a distraction there for a few weeks from the town hall meetings. that seems to have died down some in the focus of the last week or so has been back on the president, as he's been talking, going on a radio show this talk, talking to supporters. the forward motion we saw before congress went out hasn't happened. there's been some meetings here and there on the hill. we'll be waiting until the president's back from vacation, congress is back in session, to really see what's going to

happen. >> your story in today's "the washington post" focuses on president obama's meeting with tom daschle, of course his initial pick for health secretary. this meeting was on the president's public schedule though a private meeting. what do you make of that? >> we asked the white house, why are you you telling us this? you don't have to tell us everyone that comes to neat in the oval office. the answer was for the sake of transparency, something they wanted out there. if we had seen former senator daschle going into the white house unannounced we would have made a lot of that and questions about what role he was play, since he wasn't confirmed, nominated as the health czar and the hhs secretary and withdrew it, so there would be questions what he was doing. they also wanted to show that the president is listening to a lot of people, to people who know what they're doing, trying to really figure out a way to move this forward and former senator daschle is someone who knows the ropes, would have played a pivotal role here in

washington, had he had those jobs. they wanted to signal to us that the president's listening. >> yeah. it strikes me as funny, you bring up that point, they're damned if they do, they're damned if they don't if they don't tell you, what's up if you do, why are you telling us this? the way you put it made me chuckle. however, this serious question, how you think the health reform process might have been different under daschle's leadership? >> well, it's easy to second guess, of course, but since that's what we're here doing, you know, he was somebody -- he is somebody with a lot of stature in washington who does know the legislative process extremely well. had a lot of clout with people and frankly a lot of friends. so, he would have perhaps been able to bring some forces together in a way that the people who are doing it now haven't been able to. that's not to insult people doing it now, primarily hhs secretary sebelius. everyone at white house has done

a terrific job but they're in two different jobs not one job and they aren't tom daschle. >> no one but you is anne kornblut. have you back again next hour. sin city's down on her luck. unemployment rate hit a high over 13% of the workforce out of jobs, many jobs coming from a slump in the convention business. watching msnbc saturday. (announcer) if you think all batteries are the same, consider this: when a tornado tore through holly, colorado, air life denver took to the air... their night-vision goggles keeping them safe on a perilous flight... and powering those precision goggles--- is the only battery air life trusts: duracell. trusted everywhere.

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tests are under way this morning, trying to determine the gender of a south african teenager who won the women's 800 meter tight until berlin this week. south african athletic federation is conducting a battery of tests to prove or disprove caster semenya's

assertion that she is female. the athlete says she's been teased her life that she looks like a boy. chris craft a gender specialist at johns hopkins medical institutions. good morning. >> good morning. >> i want to say to people, don't be thinking you go into this and gosh, you can pull down your pants and figure out what the person's gender is. it's more complicated than this. is this a common thing? how much do you see trouble like this? >> well, gender is very complicated, and at our clinic here at johns hopkins for years we've had people come in to us who aren't sure. >> their gender, feel like they may be the other gend somewhere we don't rely on biological test week rely on what people tell us psychologically, emotionally, historically about the genders. we're must more interested in the i didn't of the person formed themselves and if that identity is changing. >> but i'm curious, chris, with

regard to the sports, athleticism of this, how much is what you're talking about, which i'm presuming is a psychological focus combined with physiological focus, ow much does that play into things when if you're competing male versus female either you're male or female from an athletic point of view. >> yes, i understand that from an athletic point of view but that's a binary designation. our genders are on a continuum than we are aware of. some people can have very nontraditional gender presentations but still feel that they're biologically the gender of, so it varies a lot how people can present and how they feel about themselves. >> let's play a little bit of sound from the run caster semenya. she has quite a deep voice. >> i'm saying anybody can do it. i'm thinking of my home base. >> can you tell anything from a

deep voice, chris? >> you can, there's people with high voices, low voices, masculine appearances, feminine appearance. when outside of the traditional norm it raises eye bro brois an we're not comfortable. you really can't tell by a voice. you can't tell by the outside of the package. you have to hear what the person says and feels about who they are. >> let's take a listen to this, the teen's mother asked about the controversy. here it is. >> i have no doubt what i say, i have no doubt, this my girl. come from me. i give birth to that girl. >> there's the mom weighing in a girl. >> right. you know, this has got to be very hard on the family, the embarrassment of this, the questioning of, you know, their child. i'm sure this is very disturbing. and also for the individual themselves to have to go through this scrutiny at such a young

age, it's got to be very traumatizing for everybody. >> chris, how many cases do you see like this? >> well, we see quite a few people at our clinic who are variable if their gender. many of them saying they feel they're the other gender. this person is not a transgendered person we must be careful with that. those are the type of people we get to our clinic. we try to help them understand feelings and try to help them be comfortable in their identities. the biggest challenge dealing with a societal stigma and the reaction and prejudice. >> okay. chris craft, thank you very much for coming on and talking about all of this openly. appreciate that. >> thank you. it may not be a state of bliss but a place where you can sit bark take it easy enjoy the surf. hawaii the least stressed out of state. the most stressed-out state, kentucky. sorry. watching "msnbc saturday." on healthy hair?

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announcer: a1 makes the burger king steakhouse burger sing. the latest on hurricane bill. moving westward in the atlantic toward bermuda, east coast residents are being cautioned not to go into the water because of dangerous waves and rip currents and weather channel meteorologist jeff morrow live in orleans, massachusetts. good morning to you, jeff. we talked to you last hour. how do things look now? >> reporter: it's clears up a little bit. i'm going to have you look down the beach area, you can see a lot of folks on the beach. they're actually down there watching some of the surfs are out in the water. you can't see the water well. if you squint, you might be able to see them in the fog but they're catching big waves. now the irony there is that the ocean off these beaches is actually closed, officially, and they're not supposed to be out there. it's very dangerous. and there's a huge danger of

some very big rip currents. the waves right now running about five, six feet, at least chest-high in some of the sets. we're expecting it only to get bigger as we head through the rest of the afternoon about a lot of people on the beach, i will tell you that, this being one of the last big withins of the summer. and a lot of people down here on vacation. but they know that there's a hurricane about ready to go by so they're all coming down to see the big surf and maybe catch some of the surfers out there on the boards. we're under a tropical storm warning for some gusty winds. expecting late tonight and tomorrow as bill goes by. high surf advisories out here as well. alex? >> you know, jeff, that is kind of annoying, people being so foolhardy and risking so much. where are the lifeguards? >> reporter: there are lifeguards here, and they say, again, that it's officially closed here they shouldn't be out in the water. the surfers -- they're not going to pull them out of the water but when they come out of the water they tell them, hey,

you're not supposed to be out there and it's officially closed. whether they get arrested or not, i don't know. these surfers, they are a very hardy bunch and say we don't get waves that often and we're going to go ahead and try to take advantage of it. >> good luck with that. okay, jeff, thank you. appreciate that. we'll be checking in with todd santos to get a close look where hurricane bill is. right now where bill may be heading. martha's vineyard getting ready to host the first family. the obamas set to arrive for the ten-day get away some, tunsunda. anne thompson with the prep for the first family's arrival. what's the weather going to be like? right now it's not so great, right? >> reporter: yeah, it's cloudy and overcast here on the cape. and we're expected to get some rain tonight and then we're

expecting to get some rain tomorrow as bill passes up -- goes up the atlantic coast. right now, we are at hyannis harbor and for most people they take a ferry one that leads out hyannis or woods hole. they are saying the ferries running today, planning to run tomorrow and taking vacationers over to greet the first family, as it comes to spend a week on martha's vineyard. you see the marine helicopters overhead, that's how the obamas are going to get to the island tomorrow. they will land, for what is expected to be a low-key vacation for them. there -- they have no public events scheduled. tear arrival is closed to the press and the public, but everywhere you go throughout the island there is genuine excitement about the first family coming. you see the obama t-shirts. t-shirts about bo, portraits of the first family everywhere and people are very troud proud that, once again, the first

family of the nation selected martha's vineyard for its vacation site. remember bill and hillary clinton spent many summers on the vineyard. >> you've covered some of those clinton vacations. how does the preamendmentable leading up to the obama family visit compare to that of the clintons? is there equal excitement, equal cashing in on the touristy industry? >> reporter: well, i think it's two things, one, it's been a down summer for the vineyard. june, they had 25 days of rain, and that really hurt the tourist business. july was slow. add that to an economy that ground to a halt and is slowly coming back. august has been a better month. and they're all hoping on the island the obama's visit will be their own stimulus package, if you will. so that's one of the thing that's causing excitement. the other thing is, is that oak bluff is an area where a lot of middle to upper class black have

gone and vacationed for many decades. when you go to oak bluff there's a particular pride the first african-american president has chosen to vacation in martha's vin yard. the president will not be in oak bluff, he's going to be down in the southwest corner of the island in a town called chillmar, he's renting a house, blue herron farm, it's more than a house, it's a lot of houses, a 28-acre site that the president himself is paying for. no official word on how much it will cost. but speculation goes that it's going to cost him somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000. >> ann thompson in hyannis, thank you. ann was talking about the cost. wondering who is picking up the tab for the ten-day getaway, the deal, the obamas are paying for a portion of the estimated $35,000 rental, taxpayers picking under the tab for secret service and staff housing which is the way it works for

vacationing presidents. to politics now. the august health care heat wave, congressional recess has done nothing to tamp down the debate. today, president obama says, his challengers' phony claims are interfering with what should be an honest debate. joined by donna ed wars of maryland. good morning to you. >> good morning, al likts. >> glad you're here. curious to see what happened when you met with young democrats in your district. what did they tell you matter most to them regarding health care reform? >> i think people wanted to know the details of about the legislation that we're looking alt, and it was an amazing discussion that you know, ranged from talking about the public option and trying to understand that, trying to reconcile that with health care that many of them have already. and people were concerned about things like preexisting conditions and whether, as a small business person or working for a small business, they'd be able to get into the health

insurance exchange that would allow them the choice of a public option and so it was wide ranging and very detailed. >> the public options. representative edwards you have the house majority leader steny hoyer saying the public option may have be taken off the table to get health reform passed pelosi saying she wants a public option in. how about you? wow you'll be happy of a reform plan without a public option? >> it's clear there's widespread support within the democratic caucus in our house for the public option and that we know, by the president's own words and by the words of experts, that the public option would lower costs, would provide for accountability and transparency and competition in the system that doesn't really have competition now. >> i'm curious, do the young democrats you spoke with do they understand what you're saying there, do they understand that? >> well, you know, what happened

at young democrats' meeting i had an opportunity in a really, a good forum, to walk through the details of the legislation and explain to them. by the time we were finished some of the young democrats say, now i understand it i don't understand why it couldn't be explained in plainer los angeles. and i explained it to them as a marketplace you know with choice and competition. sort of like when you go to the grocery store to buy bread and see all of the bred and make a choice and the public option is one of the choices. >> do you think what you describes is part of the problem? because you have to go through this thing, walking them through it, these are intelligent people presumably who are engaged, coming to meet with you but you're having to say here's the deal, let me explain it for you. is that part of the problem? >> well, i think at least part of the issue is that each of is has a different experience with health care. this is not like dealing with other kinds of legislation that

somewhat separated from our lives. health care, we all feel very differently. some of us have had really positive experiences and others of us have not. and so, it means that we understand our health care and the perspective of our health care in a very different way from other kinds of issues. and it can be complicated. and -- but for people who don't have health care or facing skyrocketing premiums and deductibles and co-pays to make it unforwardable for themselves and families they want reform and they want change, and they want to trust we're go doing something that will make a difference notice system. >> have there beenfully missteps taken by the president and the democrats trying to communicate their reform message? if you had a do-over, anything you'd do differently? >> one of the thing that's really clear is the opponents to reform, and they are many of them industry opponents, some of them republicans who just want to take down a good president, really have mischaracterized so

many elements of the legislation, and i think that it's important -- it would have been important for us get out front on that. but i think we have an opportunity now, we certainly have take than opportunity over august, i know that i have, to really go throughout my congressional district talking with seniors, young people, people who don't have health insurance, small businesses, to explain the details and they want to hear it. and so we have a chance to really get this right when we come back in september, after the recess. >> okay. maryland's democratic representative, donna edwards. thank you for your time. well, the countdown is on for tuesday's scheduled launch of the shuttle "discovery," heading to the international space station to deliver supplies. the fate of a return mission to the moon by 2020 could be decided soon. white house commission's recommendations are expected any day now. but the main sticking point, cost. $3 billion to $5 billion each year leading up to to the 2020

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it is nearing the end of the road for government's popular cash for clunkers program. auto dealers bracing for a possible last-minute rush of car shops are this weekend. joining me live to break down the winners and losers of it all, "the washington post" financial reporter, good morning. >> good morning, thanks for having me. >> glad you're here. curious what you think's going to happen this weekend. will we see a last-minute rush of folks trying to trade in clungers this weekend? >> we probably will. a lot of dealers last night preparing to open doors early, stay open late for a last-minute rush. other dealers have a lot of outstanding payments and already shutting down last night, some saying we're not going to offer any more cars until we get the paperwork processed and make sure we're getting paid back from the government, which has been the problem. >> those are the losers. they're afraid they can't afford

to front the money any more because they're waiting to get reimbursed. does this program risk, you know, squeezing these car dealers too much? >> it really does. a lot of car dealers, it's a cash intensive business and they don't have a lot on money to front at this rate. the government has i tried to improve it but car dealer are not have cash coming in, it's putting them a difficult financial position. some dealers have upwards $5 million out. >> wow, that's a lot. what about the winners in this program? we heard this week that gm brought some workers back because of the increased demand for their vehicles. beside these workers is those that drive off at lot with a shiny cars at i reduced price work are the big winners. >> the car qcompanies and dealers. car dealer that had too much inventory.

now the parking lots becoming empty and replaced with clunker trade-ins that they've taken in. they are the winners, at this point. >> i'm curious about the top cars in terms of sale of the program. the top five them, by the way, not american cars. in order they are the toyota corolla, honda civic, ford focus, the lone american car there, toyota camry, hyundai alantra. it doesn't mean these aren't american car companies that these carmakers are the losers, right? what is in it for the u.s.? >> well, actually, a lot of of the cars, about 80% of the toyota, for example shlg these days have a good chance of being made or put together, parts of it put together in the u.s. it's not necessarily true that the u.s. workers are losing in this case. there is sort of a win-win. it is bringing workers back in some cases, and it will take a little bit to even out to see how long this will be sustainable. that's the big question going forward. >> yeah. heads up with the washington post. dana, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. a malaysian woman is asking

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>> i read your article, and i want to ask you before we go any further, there are a few people out there -- there's three there. there's one in the senate that has yet to present ichts in its entirety. how did you look at all this? did you incorporate all of this? >> i looked at the waxman bill, which the energy bill that is the leading plan. it's one that obama has endorsed very strongly. it's one that has the public opti option. there is no public option. it also has the tax increase on the wealthy americans that would add about five percentable points so people who pay over $ -- make over $1 million a year. this is a plan that obama is very, very heavily in favor of, and it's the leading house plan. not that you have to really pick one plan to get a fix on how the system would change. >> right.

right. >> this is 1,000 page plan. >> this plan that thank fortunatelily you have gone through, when you look at it with a public option, how costly is it? >> with a public option it's a little bit different because public option would resemble what is now medicare, which obviously, is way underfunded and it's the biggest budgetary problem that america faces. it's about four times the size of social security in terms of the under funding and the future negative effects on the budget. essentially with a public option triple the size of medicare with a very generous public plan, this might help the middle class to avoid some of the enormous direct increases in their premiums for health care, but what it would do in the long-term, essentially, is increase their overall taxes, because either it would hit the deficit right away or require an enormous tax increase. the only way it could be paid for is to evaluate a tax. there is no way you could have a public option without having a

usda king along with european model, which is how they pay for these types of health care plans. >> i'm being told we're out of time, but very quickly, tell me you have an amount of $4,000 as that is income bebt on the middle class on average. how did you come to that? >> what happens is companies have the option of dropping their plans and paying an 8% payroll tax. i believe they would do that because their health care bills are going up so fast, and they pay a lot of administrative costs. they drop their bill -- rather, their health care costs. the health care plan. they tax your wages. you take home a little bit more pay, but not much. they've got to go out and buy your own plan. plans are very expensive, and you are getting a very small subsidy if you are in the $80,000 and $90,000 and up range. you have to pay it out of your own pocket, and you'll be paying much more -- at least $4,000 -- than you are paying today. >> okay. it's a great article you have, and it helps -- there's a lot to iron out.

editor at large of "fortune." thank you. >> thank you, alex. new credit card rules are in effect, but what do you need to know when you pay with plastic. ever worn your clothes in the shower? if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down.

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