you might actually have to be calm, unemotional and look at the facts. >> last october, and we're just realizing the significance of this now, sarah palin visited asheville, north carolina, on world zombie day, and the city was hosting its annual zombie walk. i mean, clearly, there's a palin zombie connection. is she pro-life, anti-zombie? or where does does she stand on this? >> well, palin just wants to shoot them from airplanes. that's pretty much it. >> all right. if you shoot them from airplanes, does anything happen? or do they just keep walking? >> well, you shoot them in the head. that's pretty much how it works. so palin wants to make sure that she's far away from the danger zone. >> are there any other tactics here that can be used? i mean, can the rnc recruit the great '60s british rock band the zombies to get this message out? or like every other recording artists, will the zombies wind up for suing the rnc for stealing its songs? >> that's a good point. there actually are republicans

that could help us in a zombie outbreak. general colin powell for one. but i don't think they're talking to him right now. >> is there anybody else? is there anyone to turn to in the event of a zombie attack that must inevitably follow in this health care debate, max? >> well, i think a lot of moderate, rational republicans would be great on our team. and they're going to listen to rush instead. >> plus, if the zombies are looking for brains, they'll only eat the democrats. max brooks, the author of "the zombie survival guide." great thanks and give your father my best. >> thank you, sir. that's "countdown" for this, the 2,308th day since the previous president declared mission accomplished in iraq. i'm keith olbermann. and as keith roberts used to sign off, we thank you and we bid you good night. and now on the developing link between the release of the lockerbie terrorist to lucrative libyan oil contracts, ladies and gentlemen, sitting in for rachel maddow, here's alison stewart. good evening, alison. >> thank you, keith. rachel is still feeling lousy

but we are licensed to carry on in her absence and we appreciate you're watching. we begin tonight with the return of the 46th vice president of the united states, richard bruce cheney. mr. cheney, who has been conspicuously absent from the media glare in recent weeks, re-emerged last night at 12:15 a.m. his office fired off a midnight missive to our own andrea mitchell to offer the former vice president's reaction to a trove of cia documents released yesterday. and his response to the news that a federal prosecutor will be looking into whether cia interrogators should face charges for torture. dick cheney's takeaway from the thousands of pages of heavily redacted documents? the current commander in chief isn't quite up to the job. quote, president obama's decision to allow the justice department to investigate and possibly prosecute cia personnel serves as a reminder if any were needed as why so many americans have doubts about the

administration's ability to be responsible for our nation's security, end quote. aside from the unsubstantiated swipe at the president is somehow endangering the country, mr. cheney offered a reminder of the bush administration's apparent blind spot about the justice department assort of its own independent agency. president obama's decision to allow the justice department to investigate. this serves as another chance to refresh the notion that the justice department kind of gets to decide for itself what it does and doesn't investigate. the years of 2001 to 2008 notwithstanding. among the reams and reams of documents the cia released yesterday were two reports that mr. cheney himself specifically asked to be released. these documents, cheney said, would prove once and for all that enhanced interrogation techniques were vital to saving american lives. >> i know specifically of reports that i read that i saw

that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process, and what the consequences were for the country. >> the reports he was referring to, one cia report from july of 2004 and another from june of 2005. mr. cheney spent the spring of this year practically begging that these documents be released. >> are there memos laying out specific terrorist plots that were averted apparently were not even considered for release. i saw that information as vice president, and i reviewed some of it again recently at the national archives. if americans do get the chance to learn what our country was spared, it will do more than clarify the urgency and the rightness of enhanced interrogations in the years after 9/11. >> now to paraphrase -- if only these two documents were released, you would see we needed torture. yesterday, those two documents were released, and what they reveal is not really at all what mr. cheney promised. the documents do lay out specific, valuable information

obtained from prisoners. for instance, quote, detainee reporting has helped thwart a number of al qaeda plots to attack targets in the west and elsewhere. not only have detainees reported on potential targets and techniques that al qaeda operational planners have considered, but arrests also have been disrupted attack plans in progress. well, the document doesn't say what mr. cheney essentially promised it would say, that those attacks were prevented because of the use of enhanced techniques. granted, a lot of the information in this report is still redacted, but nothing we learned yesterday proves mr. cheney 100% right. one section of the june 2005 report hails abu zubaydah's early in his detention of khalid shaikh mohammed as the mastermind of september 11th. the issue here is the guy who interrogate interrogated zubaydah said that

information was given up before zubaydah was enhancingly interrogated. and even after these documents were released yesterday, documents which did not provide proof of mr. cheney's claims of tortured necessity, mr. cheney still took a victory lap, although he's doing so with a very different word choice this time around. quote, the documents released monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about al qaeda. did you catch that? the individuals subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information. that's a lot different from what mr. cheney was arguing before, that enhanced techniques were the reason that we got this information. >> i saw that information as vice president and i reviewed some of it again recently at the national archives. if americans do get the chance to learn what our country was spared, it will do more than clarify the urgency and the rightness of enhanced interrogations in the years after 9/11. >> now, the information made public in the two documents that cheney specifically asked for seemed to prove beyond a shadow of government doubt that

the outcome is inconclusive. but it was a nice try. joining us now is former cia case officer bob baird. he's author of the book "see no evil: the true story of a ground soldier in the cia's war on terror." mr. baer, thank you so much for taking the time tonight. >> thanks, alison. >> you're very familiar with the inner workings of the cia. what is your reaction to former vice president cheney's claim that the cia documents prove torture and other enhanced interrogation methods were necessary and effective? >> well, i have looked to the documents and there is no evidence that torture led to the disclosure of imminent attacks, the ticking bomb, as they call it. there is just no evidence there. secondly, this is a cia report commenting on its own reporting. i mean, it's sort of like bear stearns at the end of the year saying, we'll do our own accounting, and trust us on this. so the jury is still out whether torture worked or not. i have yet to see any evidence that torture has worked, no good evidence. what cheney said and what's come

out in these documents don't prove anything at all. >> i want you to take us inside a little bit. can you speak confidently that u.s. interrogators can get information from terror suspects using these techniques that were used post 9/11 was introduced? >> i have never seen torture work. i have watched other countries use torture and it never worked. in fact, there was a rule, a very fixed rule in the cia, don't accept torture information because it's unreliable. and that was across the board. it went from china to zimbabwe to every country in the world. it's unreliable. >> and the theory is because someone will say anything to stop being tortured. >> wouldn't you? everybody does. they'll figure out what the interrogator wants and they'll answer that question in the way they think the interrogator wants the answer. >> mr. cheney has repeatedly made the argument that cia interrogators should not be subject to potential investigations or prosecutions. he said the decision yesterday to appoint a federal prosecutor

to look into possible prosecution said -- said it's a grave mistake. what's you're view of that? >> if i can be just a little bit direct on this. it was his administration that appointed a prosecutor to look into the cia for the destruction of 92 tapes. it's his prosecutor, burnham, who is now the special prosecutor. this isn't much of a change at all. you know, there is not a witch-hunt so far. i can't tell what you will happen the next six months. but burnham is a very competent prosecutor who does not intend to take down the cia for political reasons. there's just no evidence of it. >> now, the information released yesterday gives us much more insight into what cia interrogators were doing out in the field after 9/11. quite a bit -- i was reading through the report, they used the word improvised a lot. going off script. can you help us understand, does the responsibility lie within these individuals who carried out these acts off script, improvised, or those who were in charge who weren't watching their own program closely enough

or even looked the other way? >> alison, the problem is the cia is not equipped to do hostile interrogations. let me put the word torture nicely, hostile interrogations. it's filled with liberal arts majors who go out and collect intelligence without coercion. so 9/11 comes along. the white house is desperate to do something. it turns to the cia. many administrations, democrat and republican have, and said do something about this. so guys like you and me will go out and all we know about torture is we watch "24." and suddenly these guys are put on the line and they improvise and they use mock executions. they threaten mothers and children and the rest of it. and it looks like the amateur hour because it is the amateur hour. this is not the role of the cia to do abusive interrogations. i mean, if anybody should be doing them, it should be the military or the fbi. >> what was your reaction when you realized that these memos were going to be released? do you think it's a good thing?

>> it's a good thing because, look, alison, i'm afraid we're going to be attacked again and everybody's going to say, you know, under this administration, maybe if they do something, we have to start going back to torture. what we need to know is was it really useful or wasn't it? no one's answered that question in spite of what vice president cheney says or former vice president. >> former cia case officer, bob baer, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up -- the man convicted of murdering 270 people by bombing pan am flight 103 walks free to a hero's welcome in libya. was it blood-for-oil deal? the british government had been silent but as the calls for clarification grew louder, authorities have been forced to speak. senator ben cardin wants answers and he joins us next. first, one more thing about the cia documents released yesterday. turns out it's not just dick cheney who's choosing to see what he wants to see in the documents. according to "the weekly standard," a gop memo on capitol

hill is offering 50 cents by cia interrogators by highlighting this line from the report. agency senior management believes lives have been saved as a result of the capture and interrogation of terrorists who were planning attack, end quote. end of story, right? lives were saved. attacks prevented. until you read the line that the gop selectively he leaves out, the line that came right before that one, quote, this review did not uncover any evidence that these plots were imminent, except that vice president cheney said imminent attacks were prevented. context, anyone? bueller? this is my verizon small business specialist, tom. now, i know the catering business but when i walked in here i wasn't sure what i needed. i'm not sure what i need.

tom showed me how to use mifi to get my whole team working online, on location. i was like, "woah". woah ! only verizon wireless has small business specialists in every store to help you do business better. you're like my secret ingredient. come in today and nnect up to five devices on one 3g connection. now only $99.99 home run! (announcer) he's sweet. even with one third less sugar than soda. kool-aid. delivering more smiles per gallon. we're just eight months into 2009 and already this has been the deadliest year for coalition forces in afghanistan. four u.s. service members were killed today by an ied while on patrol in the south. that brings the total number of u.s. troops killed in afghanistan this year to at least 172. and the total number of

coalition forces killed to 295. to put this in perspective, in all of 2008, 294 coalition troops lost their lives. but it's not just the military falling victim to the violence. today five car bombs blew up almost simultaneously in the city of kandahar, flattening buildings and killing at least 41 people. the attacks come in the midst of the country's sorting out who won last week's presidential election. with about 10% of the official tally in, president hamid karzai and his main rival abdullah abdullah are tied. opponents are claiming widespread election fraud. if to no candidate gets more than 50% of the vote, a runoff will be held most likely in october. here in the states, senator russ feingold of wisconsin went where few in government have gone before, by telling the editorial board of the appleton post crescent that it's time to discuss a timetable for withdrawal from afghanistan. all that is life during wartime. we'll be right back.

there are now two searing images from the bombing of pan am flight 103 over the scottish town of lockerbie. first, the burning wreckage from the december 21st, 1988, flight that killed 270 people. 189 of those americans. and now this -- the image of the hero's welcome in libya for the only person convicted in the crime. the libyan intelligence agent was just freed from a scottish prison because he is dying of cancer. abdel basset al amegrahi just served a 27-year sentence. part of the release was part of

a deal involving access to libya's huge oil reserves. critic say they found evidence of a deal when libya leader gadhafi thanked gordon brown and the british government for securing al megrahi's freedom and when gadhafi's son told libya's television on the plane ride back to libya, that oil negotiations to contracts were always linked to his release. >> translator: on all of the oil and gas deals, whenever british interests came to libya, we always put you on the table. >> british foreign secretary david millibrand said that claim is, quote, a slur on myself and the government. and today facing a firestorm of criticism in britain, prime minister gordon brown responded publicly for the first time to the news but still did not say whether he supported the decision to free al megrahi. >> when i met general gadhafi

over the summer, i made it absolutely clear to him that we had no role in making the decision about megrahi's future. because it was a quasi judicial matter, because it was a matter legislated for by the scottish parliament and not by us. it was a matter over which we could not interfere and had no control over the final outcome. >> now, the issue with that statement, "the times" of london report that's weeks before al megrahi's release, a british government minister sent a letter to the scots suggesting they let the convicted terrorist go. according to "the times," peter mendelson, british's minister said he discussed it twice this year in meetings with gadhafi's son, including one talk a week before the announcement, though he denied negotiating any release in exchange for oil deals. yesterday, an emergency session of parliament, the scottish justice secretary who freed al megrahi, blamed the prisoner transfer agreement negotiated by

former prime minister tony blair as the reason al megrahi was even eligible for release. >> throughout the negotiations and at the time of the signing of the pta with libya, the scottish government's opposition was made clear, it was pointed out that the scottish prison service had only one libyan prisoner in custody. not withstanding that, the united kingdom government failed to secure, as requested by the scottish government, an exclusion from the pta for anyone involved in the lockerbie air disaster. >> now that agreement was brokered in 2007, the same year that british petroleum finalized a $900 million exploration deal with libya. did the british government put pressure on scotland to release al megrahi to clear the way for oil deals? joining us now is democratic senator ben cardin from maryland. he sits on the foreign relations committee and is the chairman of the homeland security and

terrorism subcommittee of the judiciary committee. senator cardin, thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> there are a lot of difficult aspects to this story. victims' rights, the release of a terrorist, money as a motive. what bothers you the most about the release of al megrahi? >> well, bottom line, this is a terrorist who showed no compassion for the hundreds of victims that were killed as a result of his terrorist activities. and now the scottish government released him for -- for humanitarian reasons. it makes no sense. it's outrageous. it should never have been done. we then watch him get a hero's welcome on his return to libya. this is outrageous, and now with the additional information coming out about economic oil deals between great britain and libya, it just raises questions and it certainly is very troublesome. >> do you think the decision to release al megrahi was politically or financially motivated? >> i know it was wrong. i don't know whether it was politically motivated or

financially motivated. it should never have happened. the united states expressed our strong views about this. we certainly want the scottish government to do a complete investigation to find out what happened here. as to whether their justice system was compromised, i think the international community and the united states has a right to know that, but right now all we know is that someone who should never have been released after just eight years of his prison sentence is back in libya. >> senator, you're quoted in "the independence" as saying, quote, i think it's very serious and i think there should be consequences. what kind of consequences do you think there should be and for whom? >> well, the consequences i was referring to was between -- was with libya. the united states has many bilateral issues between libya and our country. i think there should be consequences based upon not just the release but the manner in which libya welcomed back this terrorist. >> well, let me pose this question to you. just last year, the u.s. secretary of state was on a

friendlyish visit to libya. libya destroyed its wmd. it's reportedly helped the u.s. with certain terrorists and counterterrorism efforts. a uk columnist posed this issue. it said, you know, is it bet to have a reasonable trading partner in libya rather than let the country revert back to its old profile of a terrorist haven? is there any validity to that argument? >> well, we certainly don't want them to revert back to how they used to be, but maybe that's exactly what's happening. their conduct in welcoming back this terrorist certainly raises a lot of questions. no, we want libya to continue its progression away from terrorist activities or support of terrorist activities, and that's a major objective of u.s. policy. but you just can't ignore what happened here. this is just outrageous. >> does this release megrahi have potential to strain u.s./british relations? >> i don't think so. i think that there's a lot of questions that need to be answered, particularly with the scottish authorities as to how they acted.

but our relationship with england is -- is substantial and solid. i don't expect this to affect that relationship but i do think there needs to be answers. >> you used the word substantial. and i'm wondering what the united states can do that would be substantial, what kind of response? >> to libya? i mean, there's a lot on the diplomatic side. there's certainly issues about economic relations between our two countries. there are -- the administration has a lot of tools at its disposal to make it clear that this was wrong, and it will not go without notice. >> would you like to see those tools used? >> oh, absolutely. i think there should be a consequence to this. >> and finally, have you heard from any of the victims' families since you made your remarks? >> i have not. clearly, i've been reading some of the press accounts and this is -- this is certainly been very traumatic for the families to have to relive the tragedy and then see the -- one of the persons who was responsible for it treated as a hero back in

libya. >> maryland senator ben cardin, chairman of the homeland security and terrorism subcommittee. thank you for taking the time tonight, senator. >> thank you. and the latest round of the health care reform debate, republican party chair michael steele squares off against his more formidable opponent yet, michael steele. that and more mixed messages coming up in a few minutes with pulitzer prize winner connie schultz. plus, i'll talk to the man who may be mayor of the year, milwaukee's own tom barrett, who tried to save a constituent and was brutally attacked while doing so. good guys straight ahead. stay with us. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar,

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he was for medicare before he was against it, and it took him less than 24 hours to totally reverse his position. rnc chairman michael steele's remarkably fast flip-flop coming up. but, first, it's time for a couple of holy mackerel stories in today's news, beginning with 1.6 trillion dollars. that gobsmacking number is the amount this year alone that we as a country will spend above and beyond the amount we will take in. may i present to you our deficit. it is actually the cbo that presented this number, the congressional budget office estimates that this huge, giant, enormous gap is due to the economic downturn. you see tax collections have fallen off more sharply than at any time since the great depression. but despite the big, scary

deficit number, today's economic news was dominated by the early announcement from the vacationing president himself, that ben bernanke, chairman of the federal reserve, would be renominated to serve another four-year term. the same ben bernanke who was at the wheel when the recession hit. so fingers crossed, his next four years are way, way, way, way better than the last four. next up, as rachel has discussed a number of times, one of her favorites, the cash for clunkers program was quite popular. judging by the number of people who wanted to declunk their lives. the basic theory of the program was, get old gas guzzlers off the road, help people buy more efficient vehicles, help the environment, help the dealers, help the manufacturers, help the furloughed auto workers, cats and criminals, yes, and an unanticipated positive effect that no one other than the "law & order" writers could have perceived, a murder was solved. yes, this man was driving his light blue bmw in arizona when he hit and killed a 52-year-old bicyclist named charles

walbrook. he fled the scene and later that same day tried to ditch the evidence. first casada took the car to an auto body shop to get it fixed. then he tried to get rid of it through the cash for clunkers program, telling the dealer he hit a javelina. do you know what that is? it's a little pig-like creature in the desert southwest. that's when anonymous callers tipped off the police. detectives have now seized the car and arrested him. he's charged with one count of leaving the scene of a fatal collision and one count of tampering evidence. more charges are likely to follow. and now the writers of "law & order" are going out for a cocktail because episode five is basically written. now it's hard to imagine there's a community on this planet who has not yet been infiltrated by a mcdonald's. mickey d's is the world's largest chain of hamburgers. it serves about 15 million people per day in more than 30,000 restaurants. its operating income is measured in billions. it even has its own hamburger university in illinois. but this has not stopped the

company from trying to reach out to one community in particular in a way that for some reason just doesn't seem -- well, i will let you decide. mcdonald's has launched a new website called 365black.com, whose contents sort of speaks for itself. quote, like the unique african baobab tree, which nourishes its community with its leaves and fruit, mcdonald's has branched out to the african-american community nourishing it with valuable programs and opportunities. like the ancient baobab tree? at this point you can announce the urban area as a cloth and announce how much black people love fast food. oh, wait, you did that. >> we all know and love mcdonald's. that's where we get some of our favorite foods like hamburgers, premium chicken, mcgriddles and, of course, the fries. but we would like to give you a deeper look into our corporation to see all of the business opportunities going on under the arches.

>> all right, to be fair, mcdonald's 365 black initiative has partnered with some great organizations, like the thurgood marshall college fund and has recognized black achievements in various fields. we did reach out to mcdonald's for comment but did not hear back before airtime. the point is whether it's 365asian.com or 365jewish.com or a 365 white.com, it might not have merited our attention or the attention of many african-american bloggers who have written about this, like the one who called it condescending, or the one who summed it up with, i'm hatein' it. [ engine revving ] [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance,

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so? mmmm ok. you were right. these healthy choice fresh mixer thingys, they taste fresh... say it again! what? say it like, "mmmm, these healthy choice fresh mixers taste freshh!!" they taste fresh... wait. what are you doing? got it. you're secretly taping me? you wereood too! but you know, it wasn't a secret to us, we knew... yes, but it was a secret to me. of course, otherwise i would be sitting like this and completely block his shot. so that's why i was like... didn't you notice this was weird? no. they taste fresh because you make them fresh. healthy choice fresh mixers. in the soup or pasta aisle.

big news in the fight over health care reform tonight. the republican party is staking out new ground, redrawing the battle lines, dramatically switching strategies. rnc chair michael steele, who is naturally on the frontlines of these new tactical developments, chose today to take on the toughest enemy of all -- a man who can't be outargued. a man willing to do or say anything to win, and his name, michael steele. yeah, you're about to see is a brutal steele versus steele political smackdown. in one corner, the michael steele of monday. the one casting himself and his

party as the noble defenders of medicare. and the other -- the michael steele of today. the other taking on the, quote, already bankrupt program we can't afford. >> our seniors have really come under fire in the last few weeks as more and more proposals look to be cutting benefits out of medicare program. this single payer program known as medicare is a very good example of what we should not have happen with all of our health care. we want to make sure that we are not cutting the medicare program. government cannot run a health care system. they've already shown that. >> why fight the democrats when you can adopt the democrat's position for a day and then fight yourself? i'm all for people evolving their positions over time but over time i'm thinking more than 24 hours. michael steele isn't the only republican who suddenly seems to be representing more 0 sides of the debate over health care reform. what you're going to see next is really heartbreaking. and i mean this, it's an exchange between a constituent

at a town hall meeting and a republican senator, tom coburn of oklahoma. >> mr. coburn, we need help. my husband has traumatic brain injury and his health insurance will not cover him to eat and drink. and what i need to know is how you are going to help him where he can eat and drink? we left a nursing home, and they told us we're on our own. he left with a feeding tube. i have been working with him but i'm not a speech pathologist, a professional that takes six years for a masters and i'm trying to get him to eat and drink and speak again. >> well, i think first of all, yeah, we'll help. the first thing we'll do is see what we can do individually we can do to help you through our office. but the other thing that's missing in this debate is us as neighbors, helping people that need our help.

you know, we tend to -- the idea that the government is the solution to our problems is an inaccurate -- a very inaccurate statement. >> senator coburn's office says they have followed up with that woman, that members of his staff are working with her. and we, of course, sincerely hope they can help her and her family. but while it's commendable that senator coburn is helping this woman as she struggles to get vitally important health care for her husband, he seems to be forgetting that as a u.s. senator, he is the government. and he's using his office as an official of the government to help this poor woman and her family. of course, it's great that he's helping her but it's just plain old confusing to hear within one answer that his office will help, but that he decries government involvement in health care. he might want to be careful because here's the thing, if senator coburn's answer to everyone who's on or underinsured is, give me a call,

he may have about 71 million voicemails very soon. joining us now is connie schultz, pulitzer prize-winning columnist who has been writing about the health care debate for "the plain dealer" in ohio. nice to see you. >> thank you, alison. it's good to be here. >> after offering to help this woman and her husband, senator coburn argued that people should be helping each other instead of getting the government involved. in your opinion, should this position have a place in the current big-picture health care reform debate? >> i have to say that first and foremost, when i watch thad video, and i've watched it a couple of times, think of what it took for that woman to go to that meeting and to bleed that way publicly, and his response is so dispassionate. i don't understand why the first thing he said wasn't, i am so sorry this is happening to you in america. i'm so sorry that you are suffering and that your husband is suffering. instead he has a very immediate response which all senators can have. yes, his office will make a difference for her. that's the whole point. when the government gets involved, it can solve these

problems and it knows that. and at least -- you want to give him credit for doing that. i guess that's true. what i don't understand is how he isn't willing to acknowledge it. what is this neighbors helping neighbors? what are they supposed to do, throw bake sales to help raise this money for health care? what is this neighbors helping neighbors? i would say the majority of americans who are asking for universal health care are certainly asking for affordable health care for all americans, that's helping your neighbor. that's advocating for your neighbor. and we do know that despite some of these outbursts at town hall meetings, we know that the majority of americans do want health care reform. >> one of the frustrating things about trying to learn more about the health care debate is this manipulation of fact, on all sides. the rnc chair is continuing to tell people there's this manual out there encouraging veterans to check out early. >> it's a lie. >> why are the anti-reform people moved onto veterans? >> well, i think they are running out of steam on america's number one most

vulnerable group, senior citizens. so now they're trying to prey upon veterans because, as we know, during the previous administration there were a lot of problems with veterans' health care and the way veterans were treated period, so they're feeling vulnerable. the other thing is, don't forget always that we're hardwired to fear. we will believe something we are supposed to be afraid of first, and then we will retreat and then look back to see what there's a real reason to be afraid. they're preying on fear. this has become a game for too many republicans. and i wish, i would make an appeal to the elected democrats in the senate and the house, you campaigned across the country to elect barack obama. you campaigned across the country telling americans you can trust this man. you can trust what he's proposing for america. this is no surprise now that he's proposing health care reform. it was a major plank of his campaign. if you thought we could believe in him then, i wish each and every one of you, that will be the universal message now, we can trust him. we can trust this plan.

we can trust we can change the way health care is delivered in this country. >> you're a very interesting person to talk to because, of course, you're a columnist in the politically important state of ohio, you're also married to the democratic senator sherrod brown. >> right. >> can you give us a sense of how this health debate is playing out in your front yard? >> well, in ohio i get on average -- and this is not exaggerated, i have been counting. i get at least 50 e-mails a day that are those chain e-mails that have -- it looks very official. and it has section by section on all of the health care proposals and they're all flat-out lies. politifact.com has done a wonderful job of showing just how badly written these are. they're not true is basically what they're showing. and my husband, the senator, got one earlier last week from an attorney who said, here's why i'm afraid of this health care reform. my husband started to read a couple lines from it and i said wait a minute. wait a minute. i can tell you exactly what that is and i got on politifact.com

and i showed him the e-mail. >> and you mentioned town hall meetings earlier and there was one held by republican senator chuck grassley in iowa yesterday and a man in attendance reportedly compared president obama to hitler and said he would take a gun to washington if enough people would go with him. how worried do you think we should be about violent language like that? >> well, i felt this way from the moment that sarah palin started campaigning and using hate language, and i wrote extensively about that during the presidential race. this hate language is stirring up the worst among us. the southern poverty law center has been talking about how the citizen militia is churning again because of the hate talk. this is -- this is not without consequences. you know, my husband and i both have been getting some threats. you expect that. we're in the public and we're advocating for something as a columnist and as a senator. but i do worry that innocent people are feeling scared. and when people get scared, they run. they run away from it. they don't want to embrace

change. and in that way, i think the republicans are hoping they can win because it's the only way people who oppose health care reform right now are going to win and that's why making everybody just scared to death. i don't think it's going to work. i don't think the majority of the americans are buying it, but i hate seeing people preyed upon like this. if you can take some of the calls i have been getting from senior citizens across the state, it would break your heart. >> connie schultz, pulitzer prize-winning columnist, thank you for taking your time tonight. >> thank you for addressing this issue yet again, alison. i appreciate it. coming up -- the other thing that made milwaukee famous, mayor tom barrett will be here with the amazing story and scars to prove it next. stay with us. but, first, one more thing about the republican effort to make health care reform sound scary. remember the thoroughly bogus, completely debunked on its face theory about the death book?

admiral joe seska who came on this show last night spoke express outrage about? well, guess who didn't get the memo? >> you have a manual out there telling our veterans, you know, stuff like are you really a value to your community, you know, encouraging them to commit suicide. >> in this health care debate, no one is asking veterans to question their value to the community and they suggest this is wrong is more ways than one.

teeth. check. bottom. needs work. sorry, son. its new enhanced diamondweave texture is soft and more durable. more durable so you're left with a more dependable clean. fewer pieces left behind bottom. check. [ female announcer ] and that charmin softness. new charmin ultra strong. look for it in the new red package. for those who prefer moist wipes, try new charmin freshmates for a cleaner clean. back playing in the afternoon. excedrin back and body has two ingredients to block and relieve the pain. doesn't your whole body deserve excedrin strength relief? excedrin. what ache? he needed a computer. it was kind of like a surprise present. he needs to, you know, write papers and go online. budget was definitely a concern.

she was like, "help me." so i'm thinking: new cool thing is the netbook. two pounds, three pounds, 160 gigabyte hard drive. really great battery life. we get the netbook. i said, "bring him back into the store. let him pick out his bag." she introduced him to me. and it was like, "you're the guy who got me the netbook." he says, "this never happens, but i'm totally going to hug you right now." i get hugged all the time. how could you not hug this? in case you missed her, minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann wants you to know something. in addition to her recent contributions to the health care debate, which include urging states to revolt against reform, pronouncing sarah palin's death panels true, and encouraging supporters in a very awkward anti-abortion way to tell the government hands off my body, in addition to all of that, she has these pearls of wisdom which she shared with listeners on a telephone town hall last week about how to help shape policy. quote, that's really where this battle will be won, on our knees in prayer and fasting. we're asking you to do all of

it -- pray, fast, believe, trust the lord, but also act. now, using a reverent communication with your god to win a political battle seems like wasting the big guy's time when there are people out there praying to get the treatment they need for their late-stage disease which caused them to have no choice but to fast because the cancer spread and they can't eat and they can't act on getting care for the disease because they don't have insurance.

call or click today.

the mayor's doing exactly what i would have done. you know, you want to help people. >> he was a great hero. he saved people's lives. he did a great thing. >> people think very well of him right now. he's a bona fide hero. >> politicians are called many things these days but hero we haven't heard in a while. that's exactly what many in milwaukee are saying about their mayor, 55-year-old tom barrett. leaving the state fair with his family last saturday, the mayor heard a woman screaming for help and he ran to her aid and wound up being attacked by a man wielding a metal pipe. the attack so vicious, he was hospitalized for days before being able to hold a press conference. you can't keep a good mayor down. he returned to work yesterday. around bruce city the mayor has become, well, a local hero. the local brewery has even made. a local brewery has even made a t-shirt with a superman logo saying our mayor ain't no cream puff. here now, the brave minute himself, milwaukee mayor tom

barrett. what happened that made you realize something was going wrong on the street? >> well, i was walking back to the car with my two daughters who are 10 and 12 along with my sister and my 20-year-old niece and we heard the woman crying out that we should -- someone call 911, call 911. so my daiglers looked at me and i called the phone. and before i could press send, this man came out of nowhere and started stomping on the phone. we could see immediately that this was the problem. the issue was not the little girl had been locked in the car or she was sick. this guy had been in essence terrorizing the grandma and the granddaughter. he was the father of the daughter and was seeking to see her and he had been drinking and this was what we learned since then. i didn't know any of this. i didn't know him, he didn't

know me. he made comments that are scary. i told my sister, take the girls across the street. he made more statements and all of a sudden i realized this was going to be a very, very ugly evening. and sure enough it was. >> did you see the pipe coming? >> i didn't see the pipe. i know i have been hit by a pipe. it was under his t-shirt. he was holding something under his t-shirt. he wanted me to believe it was a gun. i could see there was something metal under his t-shirt. so the question was, is it a gun or is it a pipe of some sort? and i obviously didn't want to find out. and he came at me, i took a swing at him. but i have to admit, i lost the battle with the pipe. >> did he say anything to you? '. >> oh, yeah. i don't think i should go into depth because of the criminal proceedings. there was enough that that will come out that i feel confident

that anybody could have certainly felt their life was in danger. >> how's your paw? >> my paw is still here. it's bandsaged up here. i think it will be 10 to 12 weeks before we know what the damage is. most of the injuries i would like to believe they were from my hitting him. i think in reality, though, they're from when i was down on the ground guarding my head as he was hitting me from w a tire iron. i have a few new teeth in the last couple of days and i'll get a few more new teeth in the next couple of weeks. the scars along my face are coming along pretty well. >> was it tough to get back to work snoo. >> it's tough. i'm tired than i've been, so i'm taking more naps. but i want to get back. it's a difficult time budget wise for milwaukee. i have to present my budget and this afternoon we spent some time a little over an hour

working with my budget staff on preparing that. and just making sure things are in order. i've got a great staff great people who are working with the city of milwaukee. 'm very grateful about that obviously. >> since you decided to talk business i'm going to talk about the governor's race, perhaps? the governor not seeking re-election. your name has already come up. >> i'm flattered by that. that's next year. one of the criteria for a politician is whether he or she is able to shake hands. i have to make sure i can shake hands before i make any decisions. that's still a number of weeks off. but i certainly appreciate the people saying nice things about me. i think any elected official likes that. >> you can only use that hand shake dodge for a couple of months. >> i'll use it as long as i can. >> tom barrett, very brave of you, sir. thanks for your time tonight. hope you feel better. >> thank you very much. >> coming up on "countdown" teeth keith has a countdown special report on the truth behind the united health group.

and next on this show, alec baldwin.

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we turn now to kent jones. hi, kent pop soo hi, allison. time to debunk a rumor here. a representative for alec baldwin says he has no plans to move to connecticut to run against joe lieberman for u.s. senate in 2012. baldwin told "playboy" magazine something to that effect last week, but not happening. that's okay with me. not everyone belongs in politics. take a look. actor? bold dibuilders? wrestlers -- >> everybody wants to know jesse the body's priva