when's he going to do it? >> certain lit endorsement of ted kennedy was an absolute turning point in the race, that the presumed advantage with hillary clinton was not as solid as it seemed and really was a turning point. i think barack obama is putting his stamp on the democratic party. he's not there yet. it's not clear exactly what this project become, but he has the potential to lastingly change the coalition and the nature of this party. you're right, though, as a new president it's inevitably a work in progress. but ted kennedy was very much a work in progress. after his presidential run, his impact was very different than what it was before. in voice, he was always a champion of traditional liberalism, but in practice, he was a master legislative craftsman, certainly the best in legislative times. >> roger? >> if barack obama wants to carry the torch the kennedys have passed to him, president

obama is going to have to pass health care. there's just not two ways about it. ted kennedy ran against jimmy carter, a sitting president in his own party. carter had not pushed for health care in his first term as carter had promised. and kennedy, we are told, extracted a promise from barack obama that he would, indeed, push for universal health care in his first term. in return for, not yus an endorsement, but it was a very strong endorsement. >> right, thank you. roger, he has three more years to do it. anyway, roger simon great to have you on. i'll be back for another live edition of "hardball." then the premier of our documentary. we're very proud of it, "the kennedy brothers." right now it's time for "the ed show" with ed shultz. a great american, ted

kennedy. the lion is gone but the fight lives on. remembering ted kennedy. tonight, i'm going to take the liberty to speak to millions of liberals across america. it's been a sad day in america. we lost our man, senator ted kennedy. lost his battle with brain cancer overnight at the age of 77. every time he was on my radio show, i referred to him as the gladiator. he loved that. he was the gladiator for the people. a fighter, a believer. he fought for labor, for worker's rights, civil rights, human rights and social justice. kennedy was the gold standard when it came to fighting for the working folk of america and he left a huge footprint in this country. he was a champion of the cause, an unselfish man who gave so much to the united states of

america. but i will remember him as a fighter. now, there's a lot of talk today about his ability to cross the aisle, his bipartisanship, his work, his friendships but he never compromised his principles. he fought for them passionately. if ted kennedy was on your side, he would be in the trenches with you in the 11th hour. you could count on kennedy. >> we still cannot get a $2.15 over two years. over two years. what is the price we ask the other side? what is the price that you want from these working men and women? what cost? how much more do we have to give to the private sector and to business? how many billion dollars more are you asking? are you requiring? when does the greed stop, we ask

the other side. what is it about working men and women that you find so offensive? that you won't permit even a vote. denying the senate of the united states the opportunity to express ourselves. we don't want to hear any more from that side for the rest of this century about permitting and not permitting votes in here. when you're denying the most simple concept, an increase in the minimum wage. we don't want to hear any more about that. this is filibuster by delay. and amendments. i've been around here long enough to know it when i see it and smell it. and that's what it looks like. that's what it is. make no mistake about it. >> that's how i, and i think millions of americans will remember the great man from massachusetts. we're devoting the entire hour tonight to the kennedy legacy,

including the battle we are facing right now for health care in this country. >> i'll have some more to say about my friendship and velgsship with senator kennedy and how i knew him and how he fought for progressive voices in this country. tonight we go to senator bradley. great to have you with us tonight, sir. >> good to be with you, ed. >> he was a courageous man and through his career cast a lot of votes that were unpopular at the time. one of them was the war vote. he was one of 23 senators that said no to the war in iraq. did it always just kind of work out that way? did he like being the dissenting voice? did he see that was his role? >> no. i think he was that rare politician that didn't see principle and pragmatism as a conflict, and he knew that he wanted to be true to himself, and therefore when he was out on the floor making a speech like

you just heard, that was him being true to himself. >> he was a fighter, wasn't he? i spoke with a number of labor leaders today and they said he was the best friend labor ever had in this country. what about that? >> well, so often in politics off record and on occasion you die verge on that record for any number of reasons. but he was someone you could count on if you were organized labor or if you were minorities or if you were a working person. >> senator bradley, tell us, what was he like behind closed doors when it was that 11th hour and millions of americans were counting on ted kennedy to carry the torch. what was that innate quality that he possessed that got him what he wanted when so many around him were opposing him? >> i think it was a ferocious conviction to principle and to how he saw the world and what he thought the world should be and how he could make it a better place. and of course, there was this

other part of him. you would hear him give a speech like that on the tloor and you would like over at the republicans and some of them would be shaking their heads. two minutes later he would be slapping their back. at the end of the day, he was a principled leader but he was also a legislator and he had to get a compromise to move our collective humanity one or two inches forward. >> he seemed to be a person who didn't do anything he didn't believe in. he just wasn't going to do it to be doing it as a senator. he did it because he believed in it. >> i can't remember one vote where he compromised his principles. i also think one of his most admirable qualities was i don't think he held a grudge. i don't think he held a grudge against anybody. therefore, a speech like that, you would hear conflict and the next day is is a new day and you start over. in the senate, coalitions are built every. new kinds of coalitions and he would go where he could get the votes.

>> vice president joe biden said one thing that ted kennedy was not is petty. he always saw the big picture. and he lifted people around him. is that accurate? >> i think that's very true. not only because of his principled position, but also because of his personality. i think he loved life. >> he did love life. he occupied the room, didn't he? when he came in, he owned the room. and the question now, that's such a tremendous void for the democrats. who do you see picking up that torch. >> well, you know, it's not only a matter of your liberal orthodoxy or your principles, but it's also a function of longevity. you know in the first term or two, he didn't have nearly the impact he had after his third or fourth, fifth term. it takes time far good wine to mature. it takes time for a senator to

mature. >> appreciate you being here. he hosts "american voices" a weekly show on sirius and xm radio. just moments ago a man who has known senator kennedy for a long time, senator john kennedy spoken in hyannisport, john kerry. here's what he said about senator kennedy. >> we're going to celebrate his life, a remarkable life. an extraordinary journey of an entire family. >> a lot of people don't realize it, but in the last month, he got a lot done. he did an amazing amount in terms of equal pay or higher education or mental health parody. the nominations that went through his hearings, the strategy that was laid out for the health care bill that did pass his committee. all of these things weren't accidental. they were ted kennedy's

strategy, his design. and from the moment he got sick. he was not worried about himself. he was worried about how do i continue to do this job and represent people of massachusetts? >> that was senator john kerry just moments ago. joining me now is the nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. we knew this was going to happen, but how will he be remembered? >> you can always imagine what something like this will be like but you never know what it will be until you have the experience. in terms of washington, you know, i lived there. it's about as toxic an atmosphere as there's ever been in the last 200 years. i hope that one thing that particularly members of congress do is look back at kennedy and say, this is someone from the previous generation. he could duke it out with people

on the other side, conservative, republicans all day long. didn't mean anyone had to change their views but at the end of the day, they could have a drink together. that's what they lost in the newer generation. i think it would be something if the senate and house brought back. >> what moment in his career separated him from his brothers? his brothers were so famous and then ted kennedy was there in the family, a hard worker and his work ethic, he was just absolutely a tireless worker. he worked countless hours on issues. in fact, i think he invented multitasking. what moment in his career separated him? >> well, two things. one is that jack and bobby kennedy never really took the senate seriously. jfk once said when he was president, i felt like a worm when i was in the senate. he didn't feel that that was something you should really aim for in political life and bobby kennedy from the moment he came in in 1965 was essentially running for president either in 1968 or '7 2.

ted kennedy after he lost in 1980 to jimmy carter said i'm going to make my life in the senate. but the more important thing, ed, is that john kennedy was basically a moderate conservative when he came to the house in '47. robert kennedy as you know worked for joseph mccarthy in the 1950s. ted kennedy was a classic democratic liberal. he once said in 1979, i define liberalism in this country, and he really did for half a century. >> yes, he did. the work ethic. do you think he worked so hard because the country had taken three of his brothers before him? >> i think that's part of it, but also i think that was just him. you know, i would talk to him from time to time, and sometimes i would ask him about his brothers or about, you know, foreign policy of a few decades earlier. he would reply politely but he wasn't really engaged. but if you asked him how did the voting rights act get through in

1965? he had total recall. he would tell you every twist and turn. he talked about getting moderate republicans off the fence. that's what he engaged in. he wanted to change american life but he also loved the gamesman shaip. >> thank you. appreciate your time tonight on "the ed show." joining me now is "hardball" host chris matthews who has a graemt documentary coming up on msnbc, "the kennedy brothers." this is a big day in history. this is a day where we look back and we reflect. this country was lucky to have ted kennedy. >> well, i think all the brothers are important. they all fit together. i agree everything michael said about his liberalism. i think he was a liberal. and perhaps we'll get back to that word again. i think it means something. it means belief in government and what it can do. the market isn't going to solve all our problems. the public has to make certain decisions about the kind of society it wants to be and has to act on them.

they can't just wait for the golden hand or the magic hand or the hidden hand of the marketplace to solve all our prons i think ted kennedy was a liberal. >> why is it that today's culture of the senate doesn't seem to have where ted kennedy came from? that ability to get after it and then go shake your hand and pat you on the back? it was a rare quality. >> too much lunches with the party votes together, not enough individual leadership by chairman of the committees. ted kennedy's classic. now, he had a relationship with orrin hatch. the future is going to be made by somebody who's going to cut a deal. someone is going to find a way to cut this diamond on health care. it's probably not going to happen all at once. >> senator dorgan said he knew the rules. he knew the senate inside out. how much did that help him? >> well in his debate with mitt romney, which i was very proud of. romney really gave him a close call a couple of years ago. and he didn't know something about a matter of legislation,

and ted called him on it. he said, you know, knowing the details is what being a legislature is all about. you have to know the details. i think his ability to get in there -- he could sit here with you and you know the issue of health care. he would find a way to move you, ed shultz. he was very smart about the issues and he would figure out what you care about in the bill and moved glow a way that got you where he want youd. i'm not sure everything is doable. health scare a tough one. >> it is a tough one. let's talk about the war quickly because he was one of 23 votes against the war. and he said on -- >> he was right on that one, wasn't he? >> that's right. but it was a courageous vote and he also said it was cooked up in texas on "meet the press with tim russert." he always seemed to lead the charge. >> he could see what we were doing in iraq is what we had done before. the post colonial notion that you could win the third world countries and kick ass. you could rule the world because

you have more guns than they do. churchill once said there's a big decision between initial success and ultimate success. and ted kennedy said that's bad policy. hillary didn't see that, john kerry didn't see that, joe biden didn't see that. look at all the people who voted for that war. ted kennedy didn't vote for that war. >> your documentary tonight, tell us about it. >> i think it's going to stun a lot of people. people are thinking, i think i remember. but the power of this brotherhood, these four guy, starting with joseph kennedy jr., they all wanted to be president yet they passed the torch from one to another. they did get more liberal. teddy's closer to you than jack was. teddy is a liberal. he died a liberal. jack was evolving as a moderate conservative. and bobby was somewhere in the middle. but i tell you what comes across in this is they're human beings and the way they work politics you ear going to love. how they won elections using the media, using television, using polling.

using movies. they used to run newsreels of jack kennedy back in '46, back in the old cambridge race. imagine having a father in hollywood -- son -- the newsreels will be at the varsity theatre this weekend. so you go to the theatre and people are watching newsreels of you running for congress, meanwhile blacking out ott opponent from the race. joe kennedy had that power. he block blaked out mike ne v neville's campaign so only his son's campaign got coverage. >> thank you, chris. the "hardball" documentary" the kennedy brothers" will appear tonight here on msnbc. coming up, more on the life of ted kennedy. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old! - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse?

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>> he was never defeatist. he never was petty. never was petty. he was never small. and in the process of his doing, he made everybody he worked with bigger. both his adversaries as well

as -- that's joe biden today. ted kennedy made every cause and every person in the debate bigger. joining me now is david gregory, moderator of nbc's "meet the press." great to have you on tonight. thanks for your time. >> you bet. >> before you were doing "meet the press" you were a white house correspondent. how did the white house view ted kennedy? did they view him as the lion? did they view him as the guy they just eventually had to deal with in the senate? >> absolutely. and it was really interesting, covering the bush presidency, because bush's signature issue was education. that's what he came into the white house pursuing. and when he convened a group of experts on it down in austin, he excluded senator kennedy. realizing that was not a good move when he got into office, he quickly courted senator kennedy, invited the senator and some other kennedys to a film about

the cuban missile crisis and made it very clear he was going to use the political schools he, bush, had and match those up against what kennedy had. he knew that he needed kennedy as a vital voice, as a potent ally. they even campaigned together for education reform up in boston. i remember thinking i don't think we're going to see george bush up in boston a lot. that's not really bush country, but they did it there because it was a relationship they knew they needed to forge to get it done. and from kennedy's point of view, he became bitterly opposed to george w. bush on the war in iraq, but this was an area where he could do business. how does he get his legislation moved forward? he does it by working with the other side and he found a way to do that over the years. >> to put his longevity in perspective, it was march 1962, that was the first appearance of ted kennedy an your show "meet the press." and of course, barack obama was less than a year old at the time.

tell our audience tonight, from a media perspective what kind of interview was ted kennedy? i always thought he was a great interview because he always gave you something. i mean, you could always get something out of ted kennedy. >> well, it's interesting. the one example where that was not the case was when he was interviewed and asked why he wanted to be president and he couldn't answer effectively. but he was effective on "meet the press" but the history is something to marvel at. you can go on our website to go through some of that and we'll have more on the program on sunday. you know, before his first appearance, he drops by the white house and sees his brother, president kennedy, and says, well, you know, i'm going to be on "meet the press" tomorrow and the president said half v a seat and they started peppering him on the kind of questions that would come up on "meet the press." he was not ready and he had to go back and study.

president kennedy called "meet the press" the 51st state. it was deeply engrained in the ken dpips if you read his biographies, you see many references to his appearances on "meet the press," understanding the importance of the platform. >> when everybody comes back, ted kennedy being gone, his voice not being there, how do you think this is going to affect the health care debate in this country, hopefully in the home stretch in september. what affect will this have? >> well, i think, ed you have to recognize the effect has already been felt. he's been on the sidelines and he's been out of the debate. it's hurt. he's not been forging away for this reform to pass ultimately. he has been sidelined. i think the white house at this point hopes there could be something of an emotional lift. one adviser said perhaps the frenzy will die down out of respect for kennedy's passion for this particular issue. others say look, it's a cold

hearted town and it's going to go back to the business of fighting over health care again and unfortunately ted kennedy was not able to be the kind of factor he wanted to be in this fight. >> david gregory, see you sunday on "meet the press." he was ever afraid to stand firm on the line to remind democrats of what the party stood for. and what it meant to be liberal. up next, the "huffington post" ariana huffington as "the ed show" remembers senator ted kennedy.

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>> thumb's down to american families neing our premiums, our health insurance is being paid for by the american taxpayers. i wonder how people know that. this is extraordinary hypocrisy. how can people in good faith do this and still accept the federal government? how can they be complaining all afternoon about a federal government program and then have a better federal program paying for their own. paying for their own. mr. president, hypocrisy of the

fwraetest sort. >> he came from privilege, although you would never know it. ted kennedy called universal health care the cause of his life. and there's no question in my mind that if he had kennedy's voice in the current health care debate today, the reformers would be winning this fight. joining me now is ariana huffington of "the huffington post." great to have you on tonight. the passing of ted kennedy, could this be a rallying cry for progressives to carry this fight through and see real reform and health care in this country? of course, i think everybody on the left knows that this was his passion, this was his cause. yes, except that i would not call this as being on the left only, because as i'm listening to kennedy's speeches on msnbc and other outlets are repeating them. this is america. this is not just the base or the left or progressives.

the causes that he fought for, the causes that he made his own, including health care, including fighting against the war in iraq, including fighting against apartheid in south africa, including the civil rights legislation, all that really is what america is about. so whenever we say this is the left and ted kennedy represents the left, we are marginalizing it. and what we need to do now more than ever is to come together to address these huge problems we are facing with health care, with foreclose sthurs, with job losses, to really put the american people at the center of the debate again. the way he did again and again. >> but do you think this will be a critical point where it will rally and will motivate a lot of americans to see this fight through? >> absolutely. i really do. i also think that the white house and many in the senate may actually learn. but ask ted kennedy said in

1980, warning the democratic party that if they abandon their core values, they are going to lose. well, once again here, democrats are in danger of abandoning their core values, watering down what they stand for and losing. so that's really a great teachable moment for the democratic party. >> arianna, you have written a very aggressive piece on your blog, on "the huffington post" about what president obama needs to do. with ted kennedy gone and out of the debate, tell us what you think has to happen right now from the presidential standpoint. >> well in a sense, senator kennedy passed the torch, the jfk torch, the kennedy torch on to obama during the primaries. so now obama needs to rise to that occasion and actually speak passionately about health care as a moral imperative. the way ted kennedy has been speaking about it for 40 years. this is not just about cost

cutting, important as cost cutting is. this is really about the next step in america's journey towards becoming a more perfect union. >> and do you think it was ted kennedy who put barack obama over the top? his endorsement, was it that big? >> i think it was huge, because ted kennedy really went against the democratic establishment. he broke ranks, and he was willing to say obama is the future, and that's what the country needs. and at that plaur moment in the campaign meant a lot. and it's as though he knew he had to do that for the sick of where the country was going. >> arianna huffington, thanks for joining us on "the ed show" tonight. stay with us. senator rockefeller will join me to reflect on the life of ted kennedy in just a moment. but first, senator chris dodd who took over for ted kennedy on

the senate health committee had emotional words for his best friend today. >> the country lost a great advocate. millions of people who counted on this guy every day to stand up for them. and for decades to come, history will talk about his legislative accomplishments, the difference he made to public policy. to me, i lost my best friend in the senate, just a great friend. the world is full of priceless things and amazing deals. find them, share them with mastercard's priceless picks app. download it now.

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this is the cause of my life. new hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every american north, south,

east, west, young, old will have decent quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege. we can meet these challenges with barack obama. yes, we can and finally, yes, we will. >> yes, we will. is that where the senate is tonight? we have lost our guy, ted kennedy. a champion on the health care issue for decades. he was a fighter and he will be missed as the fight goes on. joining me now by phone tonight is west virginia senator jay rockefeller. senator, great to have you with us tonight on this busy evening. senator, can you tell us how you feel? i know you worked closely with senator kennedy. how does this news hit you

tonight? >> it's been a bad night and a hard day. i first met ted kennedy right after he had been in an airplane crash and broken his back in 12 places up in hyannisport. the family invited me up there and i got to know him then. and then i got to know him on health care issues through working with things that people have forgotten about now, like the pepper commission. and then of course, the whole clinton effort. he was fighting hard, so was i. and he was fighting hard on this present health care effort, virtually until he died. his imprint is everywhere. >> senator rockefeller, will your colleagues in the senate be more determined than ever? will this be a major motivating factor to see this health care reform through knowing that your brother in the senate, senator ted kennedy wanted it so bad? >> i hope it will. and the reason is i think

there's a real chance that we understand maybe better now what we are not because we understand what he was, and that is he never quit. he would never give up. he was a fighter, but everybody was a good person. he could cross the aisles as everybody has been saying for the last 18 hours. but every day was new. there was always promise in america that good could come. that was always his assumption. he brought it to health care, he brought it to every single thing he did. that's a tremendous -- he loved the fight and he cared passionately about people. that's what motivated him totally. >> are you going to get something out of the finance committee that's going to fit reform?

you're on the finance committee. >> it makes a lot of people feel badly about the senate. they're trying to decide what's going to happen. a lot of it comes down to the public option. what the alternative is, is something call a co-op. the only stuff i've read on that is pretty devastating. but yeah, he motivates all of us because all of a sudden he's gone and there's never a thought that he would be gone. he'd always be coming back. but now he's gone and we realize we have to rise up. i pray we realize we have to rise up to do what he would have

wanted. >> senator rockefeller, i appreciate your time on "the ed show." thank you so much and keep up the fight, my friend. >> yes, sir. >> stay with us. ted kennedy was a visionary when it came to health care. he was passionate about reform all the way back in the '60s and the '70s. we'll talk about how we can keep up the fight in just a minute. right here on "the ed show" on msnbc. . >> talking about the cost of this program, $60 billion over five years. in iraq we're losing the blood of our young men and women. that's not complicated. hearts happy...

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he became one of the most accomplished americans ever to serve our democracy. his extraordinary life on this earth has come to an end. and the extraordinary good he did lives on. >> the president will speak friday at ted kennedy's funeral which will be held in boston. let me bring in now jonathan alsoer, senior editor for ""newsweek" and an msnbc analyst and john harwood, cnbc washington correspondent and a correspondent for the new york times. i know you've interviewed ted kennedy many times. what were the heavy lifts over

the last 47 years that ted kennedy would identify with. what did he consider the big accomplishments? >> he did so much on health and education, but when i asked him a few years ago, what were the biggest accomplishments, not for him, but for the senate in all the time he was there, he pointed to the civil rites act of 1964, the voting rights of 1965 where he introduced an amendment that eliminated the poll tax. that was what they used to discriminate against blacks in the south. ted ken degot that abolished. that was an accomplishment at the begoing of his career. and the third one was the same year, the immigration act of 1965. ted kennedy changed the face of this country. he was the floor manager for that bill. before that, if you were not european, you did not get in as an immigrant. think how much has changed since then. then there were a whole variety

of health care bills. we talked about how politics are the art of the possible. people have to keep this in mind as we move into this health care debate. >> i spoke to a lot of union leaders today. their voices were cracking. labor lost their best friend in the last 24 hours. if ted kennedy was on your side, he was on your side. how does labor replace that? how do the working folks of america replace that kind of support if they can. iechlt . >> it's going to be difficult because ted kennedy continued to work for causes championed by labor long after many democrats were turning towards the political center. think of all the work he did, for example, on raising the minimum wage. some democrats thought to be modern and competitive, they moved past minimum wage and let

the market work its magic. i think back on health care where, you know, jonathan was just talking about voting rights and civil rights, which were huge accomplishments. ted kennedy voted for medicare in the 1960s. he kept pushing for universal coverage. didn't get it. but he worked with orrin hatch on the children's health program. he worked on making health care more affordable for people who lost their jobs. but i've got to say, ed, that i think democrats and barack obama are closer to achieving the goal that you shared with ted kennedy than maybe you do or many other people do because i think they've got the votes in the house. i think they're likely to have the ♪th votes in the senate, and the outlook is not, in my opinion, as pessimistic as many people are painting it right now. >> john harwood, jonathan alter, thanks for joining us tonight. thanks for your insight on all of this. stay with us. we'll have more on ted kennedy's life and legacy on nbc's tom brokaw right after this.

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this november, the torch will be passed again to a new generation of americans, so with barack obama and for you and for

me, our country will be committed to his cause. the work begins anew. the whoep rises again, and the dream lives on. the legacy of ted kennedy may extend all the way to the white house. he lost his campaign for president in 1980. 28 years later he passed the torch to barack obama. he endorsed then canada obama at a critical time in the primary campaign. he was the clear progressive choice. you get the sense kennedy felt president obama would carry on his work. joining me now is nbc's tom brokaw. great to have you on tonight. >> my pleasure. >> your thoughts when you heard the passing of ted kennedy. this man has such a major impact on what this country has been through and had his hands on so many things legislatively. can you put it in perspective for us tonight? >> well in my case obviously i

lived my entire adult life with ted kennedy. i was a young man first starting in this business when his brother john f. kennedy was elected president. and i thought, i identified most of all with young edward kennedy. he was closer to my age obviously. over the years i got to know him through good times and bad. i think the back of his life was a life of redemption, politically and personally. so he's able to go out with the kind of tribute he's receiving here today. what ought not to be lost was his raucous sense of good humor. he has an ability to laugh at himself and walk through a room and make everyone feel good about themselves even his political opponents before too long. >> tom, you used an interesting word, redemption. do you think that played to his work ethic? do you think that's one of the reasons why he was such a tireless worker, that that had something to do with it, he was on a mission to prove, on a

mission to carry on the legacy of his brothers whose lives were cut short? >> i do. it was easy enough for him to go off into some kind of soft retirement after he lost to president carter for the democratic presidential nomination in 1980, but he went back to the senate and began to rebuild his career and his life. i think it's the happiest i've ever seen him, the time they were married. i think she's an important influence on him. and what was always striking about ted kennedy, when people would question me is i would move around the country and wonder about him often in very harsh terms. i would say look, here's a guy with great privilege, great wealth. but for all the privilege that he had, he really did identify with the underclass and with the working class, and he never gave up the fight for them. and i think it is a lesson for people who are come into public

life now, democrat or republican. about his ability to go to the center of the aisle in the senate and reach across and have good friends. not just orrin hatch but others as well. and share a story with them. >> and finally, tom, this has been thrown around a lot, the liberal lion of the senate. there may be some folks watching tonight that aren't quite sure. what does that mean? what does that mean to you? >> well, he certainly was a rib lal. unapologetic about it. defended his liberal philosophy. he was, as was pointed out earlier, one of the strong advocates for medicare, which was described as not just a socialization of health care at that time, but really the communism of american health care. so he was unapologetic about it. the lion part was he was in the

senate iffer so long that his roar could always be heard. >> often when i interviewed him, i called him a gladiator. and i can say, i had the distinct pleasure and honor of having the gladiator, ted kennedy on my side. the conservative voices on the airwaves in america often drown out the progressive format, especially in the radio business. my wife and i had a chance to meet senator kennedy back in 2000. we became great friends and a number of times every year he would always connect with us. he was an encouraging voice and friend. he wanted progressive talk to work. he wanted balance, he wanted debate, he wanted advocacy. but most of all, he wanted the american people to hear the truth about the critical issues of our time. we often hear senator ted kennedy described as the liberal lion of the