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and it's a day of remembrance. senator ted kennedy passed away and the tributes are pouring in. some of the funeral arrangements have now been sechlt he will be laid saturday in boston, a funeral mass and maultly laid to rest at the natiarlington nagst senator. >> that was boston remembering ted kennedy last night at fenway. a remarkable day of remembrances yesterday. george will, writing in the "new york post" that ted was the most important kennedy. of course, we've grown up hearing the legends of john kennedy and bobby kennedy. again, historians, when they look at this man's life work, are going to, i think, in the end, see that he did more to change this country, the laws of this country than anybody else. we have mike barnicle up in

hyannis port and pat in washington. mike, set the scene up there. when did you get there? who have you talked to? what's going on? >> i got here from new york, joe, yesterday, late morning. it's obviously, you know, the media clutter is pretty thick. behind me, down this road is the compound. i did have the opportunity late yesterday afternoon to go to the home. i saw mrs. kennedy, vicki kennedy, kara kennedy, senator kennedy's daughter. senator kerry was there. his personal physician, dr. larlai larry ronan was there. the flag draped sun room was there. if you're paying your respects to the senator, you can see off

to your right, the windows, his sailboat in theharbor. there are three pictures, one of the senator kennedy and his brothers and extended family. another you just alluded to, a picture taken this past april of opening day at fenway park of senator kennedy being walked to the mound for the red sox first pitch and the red sox manager terry francona. the tradition are thick and deep here in hyannis port. >> pat buchanan, in washington d.c., george will writing this morning that ted was the most powerful knight in camelot. >> i think there's no question about it, in terms of influence over four decades of legislation. even more than that, joe, teddy kennedy was the most influential of the kennedys. he was the best of the united states senators. but in terms of living in

memory, i think that john f. kennedy himself, even though he served less than three years in office is -- i think he's immortalized in the american memory and american heart to a greater degree because he was president of the united states. i think george will is right, in terms of his mark on legislation and his mark on alterations and the character of american society over 47 years, i don't think -- i can't think of anyone who matches edward kennedy. >> remarkable words. >> willie geist, why don't we go to news and then we'll continue this effort? >> little break for news here. look at some of the top stories. in just hours, the nation will mark the first formal tribute to senator ted kennedy. he, of course, lost his battle with cancer on tuesday. after a private family mass, the senator's body will travel from hyannis port to the jfk presidential library in boston there, thousands offer people

will attend a public wake. a memorial service is scheduled friday, ahead of a saturday funeral where president obama welcome deliver a eulogy. the senator will be buried at the family plot in arlington, alongside his brothers. meanwhile a tribute from the senate and long time friends continues to pour in. >> for decades to come, history will talk about his legislative accomplishments and difference he made to public policy. for me, i lost my best friend in the senate, just a great friend. i was here on many occasions, right here on this river. it's been a long year, a year and three months. i'm saddened by it deeply, like losing a brother. i lost my sister about a month ago and i feel this pain almost as much. >> i sat with him on the senate floor in the same aisle. i sat with him in the judiciary committee, physically next to him and i sat with him in the caucuses. it was in that process, everyday

i was with him, this is going to sound strange, but he restored my sense of idealism and my faith in possibilities of what this country could do. >> you can hear the emotion in both of those men as they say good-bye to their friend. the "new york times" are saying that democrats are stepping up pressure to see kennedy's senate seat filled quickly, comes amid contentious debate on health care where it could affect the outcome. just last week, kennedy sent a letter to state leaders to change the law so massachusetts governor duval patrick could name an interim successor. >> i support the special election provided in for the current law. i think that is the right arrangement for the commonwealth. i also support senator kennedy's request that the governor be given the authority to appoint an interim senator to serve for

the five months approximately it takes to have a special election. i think it's a particularly timely request, at a time when there are such profoundly important proposals pending in the congress right now. massachusetts needs two voices in the united states senate. >> we will talk to governor duval patrick about the pu push -- the pressure he's facing coming up later in the show. this is an interesting choice he has to make here, to honor the request of ted kennedy or keep state law, which is different than most places. >> yeah. ask me why? >> why? >> i don't know. you know who knows? i bet mike barnicle knows. why is massachusetts -- you started to explain this yesterday but we were caught up so much in the remembrances i didn't absorb it. why is massachusetts different than just about every other state in appointing senators because if this happened in florida -- you name the state, the next day, most governors can

appoint the senator until we have a special election. the next time an election comes aroun around? >> massachusetts is different, joe, basically because the legislature is filled with people who are currently holding the best job they'll ever have, not exactly big thinkers. what happened in 2004 when senator john kerry was running for the president circumstance the legislature became fearful the then republican governor, mitt romney, would be allowed the opportunity to appoint a united states senator to the seat that senator kerry would vacate if he became president. so they changed the threw fit their own parochial political interests back in 2004. and now five years later, they are caught with that law on the books. that law -- the change in that law required no interim senator, there would be a special election, i think, within 120 or 190 days of president kerry, assuming the white house, and the governor having the right of

appointment taken from him. now, they have to live with it. there's enormous pressure on them to change the law so that they would go back to having an interim senator, who would serve, having declared no interest in running for the seat in 190 days. that's writ sihere it sits toda. pressure on this legislature, it might work, i have to tell you, joe it's a pretty low level of intellect in the massachusetts legislatur legislature. >> it sounds like it. we're certainly the last to throw stones when it comes to a low level of intellect. yes, changing the laws of your state regarding something as important as appointing a senator every time the political wind shifts, that suggests a low enough level to keep people -- >> the problem -- the problem -- >> yeah. >> the problem with this legislature, joe, it might be true in a couple other

legislatures, i'm thinking of the new york state legislature in particular and the problems they've been having, they view every job from president down to united states senator the same as being a custodian in a high school gym a patronage position. >> sounds like delahunt. massachusetts. legislature. good luck in hyannis port. >> you're in trouble, mike. >> what do state legislators come up to show their resneekts show level of intellect. the justice department has decided not charge new mexico governor bill richardson in an alleged pay to play scheme involving a top political donor. that investigation, you'll remember, forced richardson to withdraw as president obama's nominee for commerce secretary. best selling author and journalist dominic dunn is being remembered today after he lost his battle with cancer on wednesday. he was perhaps best known for his coverage of celebrity trials most notably the o.j. simpson

trial. dominic dunn was 83 years old. south carolina governor mark sanford vowing once again to remain in office, rejecting calls by his own lieutenant-governor to step down. sanford says he'll stay on the job despite the scandal of an argentine mistress and questionable travel using state money. >> i'm not going to be railroaded out of this office by political opponents or folks never fans of mine in the first place or a different way, a lot of what's going on now is pure politics. plain and simple. >> he's hung in there. >> yes. i mean, mark has to know the only reason he's still in office, because his lieutenant-governor is a crackpot. people don't want him. i don't even know the lieutenant-governor. you talk to somebody from south carolina, what about the lieutenant-governor, they start laughing. >> the lesser of two evils, i

guess. >> apparently. >> still going for old-fashioned baby name, it says here, according to the social security's administration analyst of the most popular baby names. >> what did you name your baby? >> george. just w. his name is w. the top three for boys, jacob, michael, and ethan. for girls, emma, isabella, emily, and savannah. >> and what about quasar. >> just outside the top 10. >> that's my middle name. >> bill is back with us. he will check on the latest forecast as we hold our breath to see what he says next. >> show restraint. >> very much so. good morning. let's talk about tropical storm danny. everyone on the east coast needs to watch the storm. it strengthened last night at 60 miles an hour. still forecast to become a hurricane as we go over the next 36 hours. here's the latest forecast.

they take the storm just off the north carolina coastline as a hurricane late saturday night and it's changed ever so slightly to the east. new york city is no longer in the cone on uncertainty, providence is, boston and cape cod. the closest danny will come to new england appears to be during the day on saturday. that's the worst time to leave the beach, heaviest rain. if is there any wind, that's when it will occur. as far as our computers are telling us, each line represents a possible path. most safely off the coast with the exception of a couple cross writing barnicle is on cape cod. the forecast, cooled front through, will feel like fall today. possible problem spots for airport, chicago, atlanta and dallas, chance of thunderstorms. i think the name, savannah is absolutely beautiful. is a beautiful name. >> way to go out on a limb, bill. >> let's go to pat buchanan in

washington. pat is a beautiful name i'm not ashamed to say in front of america. pat, after 24 hours to digest the news of ted kennedy's pass ing, this morning, what do you think the impact will be on this mo m momentous debate of the year, health care. >> one important fact, you've been talking about it, joe, whether they can get senator ted kennedy replaced. that takes them down to 59 votes. they have lost his voice and his legislative skill. there will be a wave of emotion sweeping across the country about nostalgia, very positive and democrats will try to turn this from obama-care to kennedy care and try to ride this and hope they can bring over republicans or bring reluctant democrats aboard. my feeling is when you see 2500 people out in restin the other

night booing and shouting at howard dean and jim moran, that emotional power out there anti-health care will pro-dominate. i think what the democrats are trying, i understand it, i don't think it will work. >> no, i think the legacy of ted kennedy will work best on democrats talking to democrats. it's not going to help in the town hall meetings. i will say this, i'm a howard dean fan. i saw him in the town hall meetings, i love him. >> he's liberated. >> he is liberated, savannah, much like you. coming up next, a friend and colleague. >> is that a spirited thing. >> i feel liberated. >> i don't know. >> i don't know. >> ted kennedy's close friend in the senate, orrin hatch will be with us, and also democratic strategist bob shrum that worked

for senator ken day and wrote his most famous speech in 1980. democratic national convention and we will get the latest from governor deval patrick on filling the senate seat and chris matthews on "hardball." you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm here on this tiny little plane, and guess what... i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. anything before takeoff mr. kurtis? prime rib, medium rare. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network.

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here has the latest rumor, president obama is going to have dinner in martha's vineyard with oprah winfrey. the most powerful person in the free world is going have dinner with president obama. >> all right. here with us now, "politico" patrick gavin a look at the morning playbook. good to see you. >> willie, i've always respected you for your courage and bravery. it wasn't until my alarm went off at 3:00 this morning i

really really felt what you deferred. >> try doing it five days a week my man, then call me. >> does your wife also smack you on the head to turn the alarm clock off right away? >> no, she moved out a long time ago. >> i have that to look forward to. >> let's talk about ted ken dirks obviously the last day and a half reserved for tributes for the most part there. are some people not joining the choir on that. tell us about that. >> that's right. most conservatives are laying down their criticism for the time being. some aren't. online web editors at almost any website that features a ted kennedy article have been frantically scrambling to try to sensor comments, trying to figure out what comments are okay, what are not. conservative columnist andrew brig brightbar led the charge calling kennedy a villain and saying other things we can't necessarily repeat on such a family friendly show. >> actually, we've taken it pretty low on this show.

we smashed that ceiling a long time ago or i guess basement. let's not repeat those. >> okay. >> i did find your article interesting yesterday. rush limbaugh showed great restraint, saying that he felt uncomfortable saying anything negative about senator kennedy as did michelle maul klkin, shed other republicans, back off. >> the only thing he said was senator kennedy was lion and we were his prey. that was actually pretty tame. chap paquiddick was one of the biggest buzz words online. ted kennedy may get the last word or a piece of his critics more in death than life. he has a new memoir coming out, being buds as his most open and honest discussions about some of the things that have taken place in his past. you have to assume chappaquiddick is one of those

a. lot of critics say we think he should have talked about it more and apologized more and perhaps his book will put it to rest. >> he hasn't talked about it in 40 years and every time asked, said i answered those questions. anniversary coming up, not a good one in a couple weeks. the anniversary of the fall of lehman brothers, hard to believe it's been a year. september 15th. how will the white house mark the anniversary? >> interesting, we thought one of the next big pushes was climate change or energy reform, they will use this september date to make a push for financial regulation reform. they feel that will give them a great opportunity to say, look, we staved off what could have been a much worse economic situation and we need this reform to prevent it frommi happening again. this is not the easiest. the obama administration is pretty good at picking on big issue, you put this on top of health care reform and the economy and on top of things taking place overseas a very

busy fall for the obama administration. >> stack those things up on the runway, a little cluttered at the white house. finally, president obama's book club, oprah, he mentions a book and the world buys it. >> almost like a stimulus package. as soon as he mentioned the five books he would take to martha's vineyard, they tore up the charts. "the way home" shot from 35 to 328. and "hot flat and crowded to 241. and like "dreams from my father and audacity and hope" and they're doing incredibly well. >> interesting, we have the opposite impact on "morning joe," come on, push a book, move it right to the bargain bin at barns and noble.

>> thanks so much for having us. we'll be checking out "politico."com. coming up. chris matthews and andrea mitchell and a brand-new look at "time" magazine. the great taste

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he became not only one of the greatest senators of our time but one of the most accomplished americans ever to serve our democracy. his extraordinary life on this earth has come to an end. the extraordinary good that he did lives on. >> welcome back to "morning joe," just before 6:30 on the east coast, time for a look at some of the top stories there. is word president obama will deliver a eulogy at saturday's funeral for massachusetts senator, ted kennedy. along with family and friends, former presidents carter, clinton and both george h.w. and george w. bush all expected to attend. meanwhile, south korean officials say a satellite they expected to put in orbit likely burned in the atmosphere after missing its intended orbit. the tail failed to separate from the satellite, caution it to overshoot its mark.

>> usa. and agreeing to let the dalai lama visit the island to comfort survivors of the devastating typhoon and could endanger their relations with china. the communist state is against the spiritual leader for that. >> they have to get over that. >> ted kennedy everywhere. the "new york times." senator kennedy, battle lost is hailed as a leader. >> the "washington post" also. >> a great picture of senator kennedy from earlier day, end of an american epoch. >> how about one more. >> tears for teddy. the "new york post" we were talking about, george will talking about ted kennedy being the most important prince, as he called him inside in camelot.

"washington times" also talks about the end of camelot. >> the usa day today a family's legacy. the three brothers. >> in the "miami herald." some mourn and hope kennedy's death could help heal the partisan divide on health care. >> the atlanta journal constitution, life of trials and triumphs. >> coming up, we have chris matthews, mike barnicle in hyannis port. and pat buchanan and mika's must read opinion pages.

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for 50 years now this story

of the kennedy brothers dogged pursuit of the presidency has been without parallel. what caught us up with jack and ralph with bobby, deliverance from political nemediocrity, th said we could do better. most of all, despite their human frailties, they called us to a higher and yes nobodiler cause. >> that was clip from a new documentary "the kennedy brothers," airs tonight at 7:00 p.m., the documentary put together by chris matthews with us now, host of "hardball," msnbc's the chris matthews show. wasn't go over some things said about senator kendy in opinion pages and get your response. the "new york times," the lion cub of the senate. i want to hear this as well. long before orrin hatch, his most durable partner came along. mr. kennedy found republican allies. one of the most surprising was president richard nixon, who

supported the kennedy measure in 1971 to create the national cancer institute. nixon exacted a price that most senators would not have paid, an intermediary, the new york banker, benno schmidt was told that mr. kennedy's name had to come off the bill for 96ston support it. he worried that kennedy would refuse and he said, oh, hell that is correct's no problem. so formally at least the chief senate sponsor of the cancer bill was peter dominic, republicans of colorado. and it came into play. >> that's a small point. the larger point was richard nixon in 1974, when he was in troub trouble, supported the national health care plan, which included employer mandates, far more dramatic than anything being talked about today. kennedy rejelkted it. the history of health care has been a rejection on the part of the liberals of opportunities to really move ahead. there was an opportunity with the clintons and they didn't move ahead with jim cooper and dingle and the others and

moynahan. >> more moderate. >> people don't seem to want to compromise. i think the opportunity will emerge and you and i know, and savannah, know covering this story there, will come a moment in the next couple of weeks, someone has to cut the diamond, someone has to make the critical zi what can get done, what should get done in these circumstances economically and what commitment should be made for the future in terms of doing something again. someone has to make that decision. >> the problem is we have the problem on the right as well, if people in the middle cut a deal, to be practical, they get sav e savaged by their base, that may happen here. let's read george f. will, the most consequential kennedy. the constitution makes senator 1% of 1/2 of one of three branches of the federal government. the intangable and unquantifiable chemistry of personality in a laboratory like the senate made ted kennedy

forceful. in the senate as elsewhere, 80% of the important work is done by a talented 20% and 95% of the work is done off the floor, away from committees out of sight where strong convictions are leavened by good humor are the currencisy of accomplishment. ted kennedy, who had the politics of the boston irish in his chromosomes flourished. what winston churchill said about franklin roosevelt, that meeting him was like opening a bottle of champagne and knowing him was like drinking it, was true of ted kennedy, too. mike barnicle up in hyannis port, a great quote. you knew ted kennedy. meeting ted kennedy was like opening a bottle of champagne, knowing him was like drinking it. that, of course, george will talking about your friend. >> that's exactly right. that's a pretty good description, too. he would bring so much joy to each and every day. it's astounding now to think of

it in retrospect because of the burdens he was carrying, never mind the historical burdens we all know about, both his brothers being assassinated. the illnesses in his family. his son, teddy junior's cancer, his daughter kara's cancer, the weight of history he carried each and every day to. meet him, engage him, to hear him tell a story, hear that laugh you can still hear it echoing here in hyannis port, which was his home, that's a perfect description of ted y. >> i think perhaps my faefrt op-ed this morning may be richard cohence, the "washington post." fate toyed with ken dhichlt was rich, he was famous, he was powerful, yet he controlled so little. he drank too much. ate too much, risked too much and did not have the imagination to ever question the liberalism that desperately needed updating. fate took one brother after

another shoving him to the front of the line where he really did not want to be. ultimate success eluded him. tragedy and failure enriched him a. life's journey that took him from being his father's youngest son to his very own man. he was born a ken dirks but he died just one of us. chris matthews -- >> a couple days too early for that i guess somebody has to talk like that. that's not the way i would talk. i think it's couple days early for that but he's really smart. it's sort of like roger mud after the nixon administration a. little too early for me but tough. >> he was born a kennedy but he died just one of us. this is a guy, we heard this yesterday, pat buchanan, one after another person coming up here, talking about how they had their brush with ted ken dirks how ted kennedy worried about average people.

everybody had a story. pa pat. >> you know, joe, i think that's right. i think, frank li it may be premature for what cohen wrote. he's exactly right. kennedy did have flaws in this sense. we have to remember say in the 1980s, he and tip o'neil, two irishmen represented american liberalism and ronald reagan represented conservative im. in this period, teddy kennedy did an enormous amount to influence legislation, this is the same area, liberalism totally dominant as a philosophy won over about half the country, half of what the conservatives had in the united states of america. kennedy, as an irish politician of the old school, liked tip and unlike his brother, jack ken dirks an aist tocrat, i think that's very very true and i think that's why he was so successful in the senate, where

his brother was something of a dilettante and bobby kennedy never really had the influence teddy kennedy achieved. >> i'm hearing you laugh here -- >> everybody's getting so poetic. i'm sorry. >> my question is, do you think he's being too tough on kennedy or too laud da torry. >> well, it's the day after, maybe three days after i'd be catching up to cohen. >> which way? >> very tough and very accurate. >> you think he's being too tough? because the line that i love, the reason why i love this editorial so much was a life's journey that took him from being his father's youngest son to his very own man, he was born a kennedy but died just one of us. i like what's drawn out here. meachem said it yesterday a battle between light and dark with ted ken dirks light won. this was a guy that took all his privilege and used it to help the least among us, at least the

way he believed he could help the least among us. >> we're all mixed bags. i think he was an unreflective, in this sense, liberal a classic liberal. he wasn't some sort of mix or hybrid or something in progress. he was the classic liberal. >> what about bobby. >> bobby was in progress, very hard to figure where he wonuld end up. adam would have him end up more conservative and peter abraham have him end up more liberal. i'm such a movie person and thinking of the way he phrased that where he died an average person, i was thinking offer the great robert montgomery movevy, i always loved it. all in chicago, this guy born a gangster and inherits this title, ends up being amazingly good, aristocratic, went the other direction. he was born the earle of chicago and died the earle of gali. i was in a moment one time in

church, a blessed sacrament, pat's church growing up, in chevy chase, it was an evening mass, ted kennedy was always very low-key, another part of his personality, he would go to this quiet church where nobody knew he was there with vicki and some of her kids. nobody knew about this religious life of the guy. he would always be there in casual clothes, maybe sitting in the barks sometimes he'd go to the guitar mass with the kids. and it was the day of an assassination. i had talked about the fact the priest hadn't mentioned it, wasn't up to date or not interested how odd and sad it was he hadn't offered a prayer for the loss of the prime minister of israel. at the moment, i thought myself, wait a minute, i'm talking to ted kennedy about assassinations of leaders, there was that mix of the regular guy you would meet and historic thing he carried, mike knows this better than all of us, how is it to be a kennedy? what is it like to be a kennedy

and a person? we have no idea what that's like. >> the burden you carry everyday and how it weighs. we saw caroline kennedy being weighed down bite this past year. mike, weigh in on this. he was born a ken dirks he died, well, one of us. remember that famous, was it tom w whik whikker who said that of nixon, one of us. >> i think i know what he's sack in that piece. i get kind of amused as we go into the political talk in the wake of senator kennedy's death. liberalism, conservativism. you have to be in this state particularly he has represented since 1962, go around the state and go into a fire station any small town or big city and ask them do you like the new ladder truck you got with federal funds, is that liberal or conservative? talk with people on cobra health

care, liberal or conservative? talk to people bringing their children to new schools with biology labs and computers and teacher's pay in kreerks is that liberal or conservative? these are all things ted kennedy had a huge impact on. you have to go to people's daily lives. we're all sitting here on tv. we have direct deposit. we're doing okay, you know to. talk about these things in terms of the philosophy, liberal and conservatism, i understand it dirkts all the time. but at street level the impact senator kennedy had on people's lives is enormous, not liberal or conservative, how we live. >> pat buchanan. >> i agree with mike. no question about it. the thing senator kennedy did and he stood for and he fought for and he was part of, he was not the president, he was not the majority leader, one man, one of the most effective in the senate. they have had -- many things have had a positive impact

there. is some reason wine this country, the country has moved away from the philosophy of ted kennedy to a point where only one-fifth of the country identifies with it. even though the republican party is in the dumpster, 40% of americans say they're conservative. there's a very big anti-liberal sentiment in this country. why is that? i asked a number of folks when there's no doubt what mike barnicle say is true. thought about that we have a little bit of perspective not only of senator kennedy's life, you're right, we will have much better perspective two or three days from now. i want to talk to you, clerks about the fact this is a fairly conservative country, we've seen nine months into the barack obama administration, hold on, this is too much too fast. even colin powell supporting, we're overloading the circuits, their conservatism that has nothing to do with the right ideologically. yet through all of that, has to

do with this compromise you're talking about, ted kennedy navigated the waters through the roughest time for a liberal. this wasn't the 1930s, this wasn't even the 1960s. he, for the most part, had to live in the age of reagan, and still accomplished what he accomplished. i think politically that makes it even more remarkable. >> yeah. there is a good book coming out on conservatives, we'll talk about it a lot. >> i can't wait. >> conservatism preservation, the best thing for society and working out things. it's not constant radical insurrections, not constant shaking things up, trying to get along in a way. >> i agree. now, we're talking "hardball" in the 1990s. >> stay with us, coming up, senator orrin hatch and andrea mitchell live from hyannis port. we'll be right back.

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kennedy. president obama is taking his summer vacation on martha's vineyard. he played goofl and tennis. unfortunately he had to work. this morning he held a press conference to announce the renomination of federal reserve chairman ben bernanke. it was much more casual than the

usual press conference. >> we go live to martha's vineyard because president obama is coming to the podium right now. >> good morning, everybody. i apologize for interrupting the relaxing i told all of you to do but i have an important announcement to make concerning the federal reserve. >> that's what happens. staying in jimmy buffett's guesthouse. >> that is unbecoming of a president. i will come out and say it, inappropriate. >> nice of you to loan him your shirt. >> my co-anchor savannah guthrie. >> i'm out of my depth already. >> let's do a little sports. i think you can do it. ready? read sox playing last night against the white sox. they actually paused before the game to pay trib fwut senator kennedy. -- pay tribute to senator kennedy. ♪ >> then here's the big tribute. bottom of the ninth. game tied at 2!

home run wraps it around the pole and red sox beat the white sox, 3-2, dramatic win, big poppy comes around, mobbed at home plate and red sox beat the white sox. believe it or not, they got a little help from the new york yankees in the wildcard race. three-run home run, yankees win 9-2. yankees 2 1/2 games behind the red sox in the al wildcard race. >> what are they 6 1/2, 7 behind the yankees? >> yes. >> rin colorado, trying to increase their lead. 2-0, dodgers. but not done. top of the fourth. again, another shot! still available in colorado. dodgers go up 3-1, win 6-1, the lead in the nl west is three games over the rockies. today is the day michael

vick has been waiting for. he will play football in a game again after more than two years i way. playing for the eagles in the home preseason game against jacksonville jaguars, one of two games in the preseason. philadelphia fans want fosee if he's still got it after more than two years off the field. he's returning just a month after his release from prison for his role in a dogfighting ring. remember the rick pitino story a couple weeks ago. >> sad story. happy ending? >> yesterday, the police released a tape picked up by an affiliate in louisville that showed woman accusing him, accusing him of sexually assaulting her -- >> right. >> that's an allegation she brought to police after being accused of trying to extort millions from the coach. prosecutors have not pursued charges against pitino. they say they're baseless claims and against his lawyer's advice that he needs to speak out spoke out yesterday. >> everything reported, everything you're shown and

breaking in the news the day ted kennedy died is 100% a lie. a lie. all of this has been a lie. okay? a total fabrication of the truth, except what i told you. the mistake that i have made. everything else is a lie. >> if you didn't follow the story, he's saying, yes, in fact, he had an inappropriate relationship with this woman but no crime committed in any way. >> unless the police decide the crime committed with this lady trying to extort him. >> exactly. baseless claims of sexual assault. >> you're a lawyer, right, extortion? we can send her to jail for like 20 years, right. >> yes. if they can prove their case. i would like to see the defense lawyer for pitino. wrap it up. of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! (together) sweet! (announcer) now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet.

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time for a little news you can't use. we'll get back to the coverage of ted kennedy. with all due respect to him, i think he would want us to move forward and talk about "jon & kate plus 8." kate was on with larry king two nights ago. the night before we learned the news of ted kennedy's passing. we want to bring you up to date on this, larry king grilling kate gosselin, here it is. >> you're a very attractive, young. do you think you'll have a problem having eight kids to the prospective suitor? >> i'm not really worried about it. >> is he a good father? >> he is. >> why the pause?

>> his decisions right now are not ones that i would necessarily make. but down deep in his heart, i know that he is. >> i love the first question, you got eight kids, you worried about picking up guys? a lot of baggage. you're carrying a lot of bags through the airport, dame! >> in denmark. >> coming up, angie dickinson. >> you have to love larry king, you just have to love larry king. meanwhile, jon gosselin, the other half was watching this and responded on an random internet site. >> i read the transcript this morning. what's there to say? she didn't say anything, she just kept on redirecting and avoiding the questions. so when larry's ready for me, i can answer questions. >> it's not that random. his response was generally random.

>> this doesn't interest me. do you have any pictures of a woman like pulling a car with her -- this is more of an international story. would you like to see it? i served on the armed services committee. this is a chinese woman with braided hair pulling a volkswagen. making a record pulling a volkswagen. martial arts master. . pulled it 30 meters. >> with her hair. >> completed the guinness record. she came up shy, actually. >> thank you, willie geist, once again. >> elevating the debate. >> elevated the debate. do you believe that? >> we have to -- forget what you saw. >> forget what you saw. erase that from your memory. >> chris matthews with us and 30 rock and willie geist and pat buchanan in washington d.c.,

mike barnicle in hi han nis port. mike barnicle wrote a column in the daily news. let me read just a bit of it for you and tell us what you're going through up there. he carried his cross through the decades, carried it with honor and nobuilt. he heard every slur and slander, lost his only quest for the oval office and emerged with a deeper knowledge who he was and what was meant to be. a life lived in the united states senate, to negotiate and fight for laws that simply changed how we live. now, in the house by the sea, a place once filled with high hopes and even higher ambition is quiet. last night's dusk arrived with a brutal truth. this man, who came through the fire of life, scarred but whole, is silent forever, while the fog of memory, seven decades deep becomes legend on the summer wind. mik

mike? >> well, you know, joe, we talked about it at length yesterday, chris has talked about it, we all talked about it. i think something deeply internal happened to ted kennedy after 1980, after losing his bid for the presidency, being defeated by jimmy carter. i think he became a free man after 1980 and decided to dedicate himself to the senate, which he really loved to begin with. i think he was relieved the burden of everyone's expectations that he would be president some day. i think he knew then finally, even after the roger mudd interview, even after chappaquiddick a decade after chappaquiddick, he knew final lin 1980, he did not have to run for the presidency again. he could devote himself to the senate and devote himself to things that would be enormously helpful for the lives of average everyday americans.

that agen's what he did and end here with his death. the dynasty is done. >> you went in the house and talked to vicki. set the scene for us in there. >> yesterday, i just dropped by to pay my respects. the flag draped casket is in the sun room of the home, the room closest to hyannis port harbor. if you're in that room, you can look out and you can see teddy's boat, the mya, bob ibing and weaving. there are three pictures on the mantle above the casket, one a picture of teddy and his beloved wife, vicki. by the way not enough has been said about her role in ted kennedy's life over the past 15, 16, 17 years. she transformed him, in part. he finally found love in his life for a woman who he was

married to and dedicated to. she has done so much for him and his health over the past 15 months since he was diagnosed with brain cancer. there's that picture a picture of ted kennedy and brothers and extended family. the middle picture is a picture of teddy opening day in fenway park with jim rice and red sox manager teddy francona being led out to throw out the first pitch for the red sox opener. >> chris matthews, ted kennedy's life, those that followed him did see it transformed twice in the later years, 1980 when he lost. it was said in "time" magazine about stepping off the airplane with ken dip at the moment he found he would lose nancy pelosi after being drubbed in iowa and noticed a transformation on the tarmac and laughed and said so much for the well oiled kennedy machine, said he was a different

guy. also '91, remember michael kelly article in "gq" really was a political challenge for ted kennedy, even in massachusetts, he married vicki, and, really, his life did seem transformed once again from that point forward. she had a great impact on him. >> i remember the kelly piece. it was hilarious in many ways because it was about -- almost a scene from that movie "my favorite year." >> right. >> it was about a guy who could get away with anything, living a life of recklessness and too much booze, too many girls, too much trouble. he went out there, michelly and really recorded it, the bottles of booze bought in restaurants, behavior in restaurants with waitresses, i never saw an article like it in my life, nobody had ever written an article like that. washington questioned. >> it washington stopped. >> the emperor has no clothes.

an article like nobody had ever written. kelly went on to become one of the great journalists of our time. i was wondering how he even got it past the editors because you didn't write anything like that in those day, almost breaking the rules. >> but that was wake-up call. >> it might have been. >> this led to vicki. >> growing up, too. you do grow up. at a certain age in life, you go to a different level in life, you're older and slow down. he was really lucky meeting vicki. that was just an opportunity of a lifetime. you know, it helped chris dodd out, too, not that he called up to go out. >> chris was the co-star in that kelly article. >> i went to an irish american event. chris dodd is a magnificent guy stupid and said i now wanted to thank the woman who changed my life. >> actually, vicki not only saved the life of ted kennedy

but also chris dodd? >> i think jackie had a big r e role. obviously, chris has his act together in many, many ways, but i think teddy was a ball of fun. he was a lot of fun for everybody around him. i think people were magnetized by spending time with him. as that sand poem, the emperor of ice cream, the guy full of life when everything else was kind of down. he made people feel great. >> vicki, certainly from everything you heard and mike is talking about, she became his sitte sitter. >> his wife. >> center. >> i thought you said sitter. >> center. >> okay. that's a good word. >> center. >> i thought you meant like baby-sitter, i thought you were saying there. >> she became his center, his core. >> good. >> his bedrock, the wrong. >> i couldn't have shade it better myself. >> upon which the his life was

built after in 1991. let's go to news. and my center, willie geist. >> if i'm your sitter, are you in trouble. >> in just hours, the nation will mark the first formal tribute to senator ted kennedy who lost his battle tuesday. after a private family mass, the family will travel from hyannis port to the jfk presidential library in boston, there, thousands of people attend a public wake a. memorial service scheduled for friday ahead of saturday funeral where president obama will deliver a eulogy at the burial. we have live pictures of the eternal flame in arlington national cemetery where ted kennedy will be laid to rest saturday. meanwhile, tributes from colleagues and long time friends in the senate will pour in. >> for decades to come, history will talk about his legislate tiver accomplishments, difference he made to public policy. for me i lost my best friend in

the senate, a great friend. was here on many occasions, right here on this river. it's been a long year and two months. i'm saddened by it deeply, like losing a brother. i lost my sister about a month ago and i feel this pain almost as much. >> i sat with him on the senate floor in the same aisle and sat on the judiciary committee physically next to him and i sat with him in the caucuses. it was in that process, every day i was with him, this is going to sound strange, but he restored my sense of idealism and my faith in the possibilities of what this country could do. >> pat, joe biden had a wonderful -- i loved listening to the vice president yesterday, one of the great stories he told, the sort of story you heard time and time again yesterday, joe biden got in trouble, i think '87, plagiarism

charges, i think '87 before the '88 campaign, got in trouble on the plagiarism charges and a couple other things, went back, was a broken guy, apologized to the senate, judiciary committee and said, i've embarrassed you, i will step down. ted kennedy stood up and said, you are my chairman and he nudged the guy to the right of him, who immediately said the same thing, yes, chairman biden, you are my chairman. that was from thurmond. i mean, these guys, when they talk, they really mean it. a lot of times, again, as meachem said a lot of times we expand people a bit too much in death. ted kennedy, these guys talking -- chris dodd did look at him almost like a brother. joe biden did owe his chairmanship to ted kennedy, all these acts of kindness we keep hearing about. >> that is universal.

as i said, i certainly didn't know senator kennedy well. we had mutual friends. he came up to me and asked me to call one of our mutual friends down in the dumb, said this guy is an admirer of yours, call him that is universal about ted kennedy, don't care left, right, center, if you cared about these folks hurting, i will say what mike said, i share the view from some distance, 1980, when he lost, when he knew he wasn't going to get that nomination, he was liberated candidate, he campaigned better, gave that great speech at the convention, full of ebulliance, the burden was off him, and made up his mind i will spend the rest of my life working at place i love, doing the things i like best, will compromise, going after republicans. if i can get half a loaf, we'll take that. i think that explains why we're

talking about his role in so much legislation, is he would say, we didn't get the whole thing, we're going to accept 70%, we'll go back for the 30% later. i think he was liberated by that 1980-that 1980 situation, where it was all gorgeous carrying ever since he was 35 1/2 years old, when his second brother died. >> chris. there was a great story joe biden told, i began to tell you yesterday, here, joe, when after joe was elected, 29, a couple days later, this is the strangeness of life, but his wife was killed in that car accident. like right away. she was coming out of the driveway shopping for a capitali christmas tree, i think it was, with the daughter and the car comes smashing in. >> one of those things looking the wrong way or whatever. joe was crushed although he was

as egotistical as anybody and wanted to be a senator as anybody in that age, didn't want to do anything, given the worst room in the capitol, nobody wants to be in the durston building, a boring building and nobody even know there was sixth floor and santorum has this room twhan middle of no. where teddy came over and grabbed him, said you have to meet the guy, join up, become part of the system here. he didn't want to do it. come turnover the gym and spend time with the boys. he didn't want to do it. he finally kept bothering him, said, i will come to the gym. said i'm not really a workout kind of guy, back in the '70s, nobody was. gets over to the gym. teddy said it's a not kind of gym, not workout kind of gym. you know men's clubs, women are amazed how they behave. you walk in the door, three or four 75-year-old guys naked in there. you know how men behave in steam

rooms totally blase sitting there with towels on maybe sitting there being bored enjoying doing nothing. and a big handful of cigars over to the steam room that was his work. here's a handful of cigar those pass out. >> by the way for the record, i entered a steam room, opened the door once and turned around. it is not pretty. i have seen it. i opened the door, there are a bunch of fat old guys smoking cigars naked, see you guys later. i'm going to the hot tub. >> you're so right. joe biden, 29, walks to the door, there's jack naked with these old guys, old bald guys cigars sitting around, said i felt really at home here there, was no threat here, life is easy among these guys. >> biden liked it. >> he said that was what it was meant to be brought into the

club, you're okay, you're a young guy, going through tragedy, you're at home here. >> steam room a great equalizer. >> i would just take a drink at a bar. >> all right. th this. >> life in the past. >> i guess. so coming up next, we'll go back up to hyannis port where mike barnicle lives and pat buchanan washington, from utah, and senator orrin hatch and senatbo shrum with us, who wrote one of his most famous speeches and kennedy legacy live from hyannis port when we return. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet.

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this guy, everything was about possibilities. i never ever in 36 years of being with him, ever saw him

down in terms of we can't get this done, things aren't going to get any better, the deficit is too big, we can't get this passed, never never never. i couldn't understand it the first 15 years. here i am, you know, at 36 years later, i find myself feeling more optimistic and excited about possibilities than when i was 29. teddy was that way everyday. >> a colleague and friend of ted kennedy's and friend in the senate, senator orrin hatch you. can help fill up these stories we've been hearing the past couple days how ted kennedy was a friend first and partisan second. tell us about it. >> there's no question he was the leading liberal spokesman in the senate. we fought each other from day one. after the fights, we'd always get together and he'd say, well, how did i do? then he'd laugh. he had an infectious sense of humor, terrific human bchlgt we

went through good times and went through bad times together. we're dear friends. i'm going to miss him terribly. >> mike barnicle from hyann hyannis port, mike. >> sure. >> senator, i don't want to talk to you about politics today, i want to talk to you about your singing voice and senator kennedy's singing voice and the two of you singing together. tell me how that would work. >> well, at the bobby kennedy foundation dinner out at the hickory hill, i think it was, they got us both up there singing. i have to say, teddy was the biggest ham i ave ever seen. it was embarrassing for me. i have to admit, i turned out to be a big ham. we were both lousy and neither of us could carry a tune very. we i can carry a tune but have an awful voice. we had a great time together and they have a picture of the two of us arm in arm singing for charity.

he loved to break into song. every once in a while he thought he couldn't get me on association he would have one of his top staffers, nick little field, who used to sing on broadway, he'd have him sing one of my songs and i'd always start laughing at nick. he never missed a point of trying to influence people and trying to make friends. it was a great friendship. i have to say, i will miss him terrib terribly. i look to that time when he called me out in california i was and told me he was going to maerp vicki, i was so happy about that. she has made such a difference in his life, it's wonderful. >> chris matthews. >> i'm a student of the senate. obviously i romanticize it too much. i raid it again, raid "advise and consent" again, i love the book a tragic utah senator there in, a very attractive guy, got

into trouble and committed suicide, a very dramatic story about the senate club. is the senate you came into in 1977 like the senate you're in now? >> well, not at all. it's much more partisan. of course, when i came into the senate there, were 62 democrats and only 38 republicans, about 14 of the 38 republicans were pretty liberal. so the left really controlled the whole place. i have to say, you know, you just have to step lively the way they wanted you to as a conservative. gradually, over the years, it evolved into what really is quite partisan today. you have at least 12 conservatives, you could call conservatives on the democratic side. we probably had 12 liberals on our side. it was much more balanced. today, there's only one moderate as i see it, real moderate in the democratic united states senate. on the republican side, we've gone pretty conservative, we only have two liberals on the republican side as i can see it now.

naturally, there's a lot more come b combata combatants than i'd like to see. >> does staff get in the way? too many experts around, too many people in blue suits and not enough colleagiality? how would you describe it? >> i have to say we have brilliant people and a lot of staff members go on to become great leaders themselves. one of the things teddy always had was brilliant staff. he would attract people from harvard and boston college and mit. they wanted to work with him even though it was for less pay because of the privilege of working with ted kennedy on a lot of liberal issues i. think i have attracted a pretty darned good conservative staff over the years. we had a lot of push back and forth between us how you do certain things. when we agreerksd people would get out of the way, they figured if hatch and kennedy can agreerks anybody can. we agreed on a lot of things.

we passed a lot of landmark legislation over the 33 years i've been there. he would have to come to the center, but he would do it. he'd get all the credit, i'd get all the blame. the conservatives didn't understand how i could have anything to do with him. a lot bills we passed were solid bills even certainty right. i'd have to move to the center, too. let me tell you something, he was willing to do it. when he made up his mind to agree to something, he lived up to it. i can remember we both had to vote down our own side's amilitaries in order to keep the deal that we made intact. he would vote down amendments he totally agreed with because he lived up to his word. that's something i really respect and i really respect it in ted kennedy. you know, the man was the greatest liberal senator of my tenure in the united states senate. >> all right. senator orrin hatch, thank you so much. great hearing from you this morning.

>> i'll miss him. thanks for having me with you. >> we'll talk to you soon, coming up next, nbc's andrea mitchell and pat buchanan in washington and chris matthews on the set in new york and chris barnicle in hyannis port. he does not care who gets the credit, as long as the job gets done. most for headaches. for arthritis pain... in your hands... knees... and back. for little bodies with fevers.. and big bodies on high blood pressure medicine. tylenol works with your body... in a way other pain relievers don't...

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sore throat, nosebleeds and coughing. ask your doctor about symptom relief with nasonex. and savep to $15 off your refills. go to nasonex.com for details, terms and conditions. he loved people, loved the give-and-take of politics anded a respect for everybody. despite all the things thrown at him, he always talked about the humanity and the morality and the things that were important to people. that's a good lesson for a lot of people in politics. >> with us live now from hyannis port, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of msnbc's andrea mitchell reports, dran mitchell. what's happening in hyannis port today, what are you following? >> at the come boupound behind the family is standing vigil

behind the clock a silent vigil but taking turns since the senator died. that is quite a gripping experience inside according to visitors, senator kerry was there with his wife, teresa heinz yesterday. senator kerry was very emotional when he came out. we talked to him yesterday. he said he started working for teddy kennedy when he was in high school. for all these years, ted kennedy has been his mentor and friend. he really got choked up. as you know well from covering these on campaign, john kerry is not a very emotional guy out in public, this was clearly a moment. after the vigil concludes, there will be a private mass in the residence behind me and the motorcade. the motorcade will leave around 1 cloak and head towards dor chester, the kennedy library and the places along the route, rose kennedy greenway, the park named after his mother and which is a

place for mothers and children to be during the day. past his office, offeri course, the way to the endy library he worked for so many years to create into the great institution it is. >> savannah guthrie. >> this is a family that knows something about public mourning. i wonder what you can tell us about the loans for the recession and ceremony and we know the president himself will speak at the mass on saturday. >> reporter: the president will speak at the mass and all the former living presidents will be attending. we don't expect nancy reagan because she is pretty frail but spoken out about their close friendship. ronnie was close to ted kennedy. mentioned he once called her husband when he was president and asked him to come over to mcclain and go to the mcclain library when the kennedys lived there and do a fund-raiser, he happily did. they were allies on a lot of

different projects despite their difference, had a bond, were irishmen and enjoyed good jokes there. was anannee -- ebuliance about him, especially in later years, where i think the burden of running for president in 1980, having not succeeded in toppling jimmy carter, once that burden was lifted once he realized he was never going to be president he really did buckle down in succeeding years especially with the love of his life, vick kirks his second wife, he really did become transformed into a different person. >> all right,andrea, andrea mitchell in hyannis port. you report at 1 cloa:00. >> reporter: 1:00. >> a few tributes for ted kennedy, i guess he would trade them all in for meaningful

health care reform this year. where does the white house go from here? >> i really think they wi will -- they will try to mobilize this sentiment behind senator kennedy and this tremendous sense offer lo loss y to mobilize this and say, let's do this for ted kennedy, the cause of his life, the way lyndon johnson did for the tragic death of president kennedy and said let's do it for the late president. i think that will be to some degree effective in the next couple of days, i don't know, given this tremendous hostility we're seeing manifest in the size of these town hall meetings and passion an intensity, whether the wave of sentiment behind senator kennedy can overwhelm that. my guess is when they get back in mid-september, the deadlock

will endure and we'll be looking up at boston to see if there's another senator coming out of there early. i think we'll be right back at square one. >> the white house has to be very careful. they have to thread the needle. i'm sure ted kennedy would tell the president, if he could today, use it any way you can, use it for leverage, use it on this person but the white house has to be very careful they're not seen in exploiting his death even though again, i say this again, he would prefer if exploiting his death would get three more democrats to come on board, would say, do it. the white house has to be very careful. >> kennedy, above all things was practical man. but the white house has to walk the line and do this in a tasteful way. one of the interesting things we're learning about teddy kennedy, he was able to coral democrats, to use that inspiration of ted kennedy, that is a message not for republicans to come on and help for health

care reform but for fellow democrats, let's get together, get in line, shed our divisions, let's do this for the sake of ted kennedy a message more likely to resonate for democrats, but he needs to do it gets the caucus behind health care reform. >> we'll be asking the same question of chris matthews and mike barnicle in hyannis port and massachusetts governor duval patrick and after the break, vicki ward, why she says britain should apologize for scotland's release of the lockerbie bomber. (mom) for just $9, you can get them shoes

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my first thoughts of being with the family of the victim those of lockerbie bombing. i have to tell you i was both angry and repulsed by the reception that a convicted bomber guilty of a huge terrorist crime received on his return to libya. >> one week later, the outrage of the release and hero's welcome of the lockerbie bomber is still strong. with us now, contributing editor of "vanity fair," vicki ward, who wrote in the "huffington post." imagine if bernie madoff were to have cancer and he were released like the lockerbie killer there. would no doubt be outrage in the streets of america. we should be proud they live in a place where protest is still vibrant, unlike my father, they don't feel hopelessly depressed. as for me on behalf of my countrymen, i apologize. thank you so much for that apology. let me ask you, though, whether

the prime minister was as outraged that this deal was done in the first place? >> clearly not. it took him several days to say anything at all. >> are we going to find out he was part of the deal or his government was part of the deal in exchange for huge oil reserves? >> well, if the british journalists do their work, we should. nobody in the british media is buying the british government's excuse that it was the scottish decision, they had absolutely nothing to do with it. gordon brown with gadhafi at the g8 meeting a few days earlier, the release of this man has been on the table between libya and britain for years. i don't think anyone is buying britain's denial, we're waiting

for statement from gordon brown that is far more strong and admits to their involvement. >> i'm not a historian of the united kingdom. the little bit i've read, england doesn't usually defer so much to scotland doe, it? >> the scottish parliament -- >> they're powerful. got to get those coming down from alaska. watch out. >> it's a relatively new concept. when i used to live there 12 years ago, it didn't exist. interestingly, the scotts are in charge of their own legal system. i would have thought a man of al mcg mcgr mcgray's national standing, a sill bol of state sponsored

terrorism ought to come under this, just as much as foreign affairs as the legal system. >> seriously, does anybody believe around this table, in this country, or in great britain, that the prime minister could not have stopped this if he didn't want to? >> of course he could. >> he could have stopped this if he wanted to. >> of course he could. he could have said this comes under foreign affairs and that britain takes precedence. >> how much of this is about british politics, labor is strong in scotland. they dominate up there. why couldn't gordon brown with his party leadership have killed this idea of releasing this terrorist. >> he could have. you also have to remember that your say that it's chris strong, actually, it's gordon brown and they hate each other.

it's more complicated than that. i think what happened, this was a delicate issue for the brits and entirely convenient to put it on scotland now we know it's being boycotted. britain said, oh, nothing to do with us. their policy, very convenient. >> won't cameron exploit this. >> gordon brown should hand the key keys of 10 down streeting to david cameron right now. it's over. >> what's really going on here? is this about an oil deal? do you think gadhafi double crossed brown by giving a hero's welcome? >> completely. gordon brown wrote that letter to colonel gadhafi. colonel gadhafi knew exactly what to do when he got this letter telling him not to give him a hero's welcome, he gave

him a hero's welcome. the english need to really learn from this. a complete fiasco. >> pat buchanan, it is a complete fiasco. the big losers here are not only british, gordon brown in particular, also, moammar gadhafi trying to get back into the international community now since 2004. >> they have a situation in englewood, new jersey, they have a home out there, people out there don't want him there in. he will put a tent up on the ground supposedly when he comes to the u.n., if i were him, i wouldn't put that tent out there. let me ask about scotland here. the scottish, is the scottish national party -- are there conservatives in scotland normally very weak? who is damaged politically inside scotland? >> i think the scottish government has come under

tremendous -- they had to hold an emergency session right now and the justice minister has come under tremendous strain. but the scotts, i gotten an e-mail from a friend in scotland yesterday, the scotts tend to bind together very closely when they're under attack. i had tons of e-mail from scottish saying this is a scottish, this is mir fi this is how we do it, the rest of the world should get out of our face. when the scotts come together -- >> like we hear about arab states the day after america attacks somebody, everybody's an arab. now, we can say that about scotland. the day after a verbal attack against scotland, everybody's scottish. >> how is johnson doing? i love him. is he not great? >> i think boris johnson -- i

haven't heard much about him but i'm sure we will. as there is the general election next year, i'm sure boris will be front and center. >> boris is the mayor of london, once ran, promising if people voted for him, they would all get bmws in their driveway and their wives would have big breasts. you got like him. >> he didn't promise we would all wear our hair like he does. >> oh, my goodness, wild hair. coming up a special co commemorative issue of "time" magazine. pat buchanan and mike barnicle live in hyannis port. achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst mptoms.

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words and pictures this week, not just his extraordinary life, but also the -- >> you could have got a little better picture, couldn't you? i mean, really -- >> he's not the photo editor. >> yes, he is. take responsibility for that picture. >> actually, rick spangel is from south africa. >> can you believe rick? if people are scoring at home, the british are now blaming the scottish and ramesh is now blaming rick spangel in south africa. >> all right. i will take full sxonlt here. but the cover is a portrait taken by platon and the port ral photographer. but the package looked at ted kennedy's life and looks at the imprint ted kennedy has had on american lye. and some of the best things on this package i think are the

personal essays written by people who knew ted and who have beautiful essays in this week's issue. >> mike barnacle, here is a person who you knew, you loved, a friend, and you had to write an article about this friend you were visiting, about his life before you died. how difficult was that? >> joe, that was extremely difficult for me, writing about senator kennedy in a past tense while he was still alive, given the magazine's deadline pressures, it had to be done well ahead of time. i'm familiar with doing it, but i'm a newspaper guy, used to doing something the night before that's in the paper. the very next day, it was extraordinarily difficult in the sense that i wanted teddy to live forever. and by using was instead of is,

it did something to me internally that i didn't like happening to me at the time. >> and ramesh, this really is, this is the end of a dream, the end of joe kennedy's dream. it's the end of an epic. how do you wrap your arms around that in this magazine that comes out a day or two after ted kennedy dies? and by the way, that's not melodrama. i mean, this is the end of what people like chris matthews and mike barnacle and matt buchanan and myself and the later years drew up of this dream of camelot, whether camelot was conconnected by jackie in the weeks after jfk's death or not, it was a dream that we all bought into. >> and for many americans, especially the americans of

in-house generations, it wag something that exited in the realm of myth. >> it gave it a human dimension and he did so with failings and frailties. but the fact that he carved out then during legacy for himself is an stroit extraordinary story on its own and i think that's a story we're trying to tell about this week. >> and a cross that he had to carry for years, i remember andrew johnson, reading that andrew johnson said when he was going through impeachment, heroes know when to die. well, ted kennedy didn't die. he survived. this is just a hell of a job. thanks so much, ramesh. >> thanks, joe. powerful medicis for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there. i've still got room for the internet.

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welcome back to morning joe. gateway of the west, st. louis. did -- tj just sucks. >> wow. >> here is washington, d.c. >> what a trip across this great country. >> you know, i don't know how many of you saw -- okay. arlington cemetery. if you think that's not going to -- if that's going to stop me from calling you out, you were wrong. new york. you know, how the west was won, a great movie. at the beginning, they have a airplane that going across the country and they show these -- and it is a wild ride, goes

underneath the golden gate bridge and an expansive view of the pacific and the sun, so -- >> i got goose bumps. >> we got an e-mail about savannah guthrie, somebody calling me on the carpet. >> this is dawn in ohio. you should be ashamed. savannah guthrie received her undergraduate in journalist at the university of arizona before receiving her doctorate where she graduated magna cum laude. played on the arizona bar exam. show some respect. >> is that true? >> that's my mom or my agent. >> wait. is that a true story? >> number one in the arizona bar? >> i don't want to talk about this. ma'am magna cum laude from

georgia school of law? >> so i guess i've established my nerd critical. >> your a total nerd. that's why we never got to you. >> that's why we've got people like mike barnacle. mike, for people waking up on the west coast that watching this show, it's 5:00 a.m. tell us what you have seen and what you've gone through over the past 24 hours since you've gotten there. >> reporter: well, there's been a 24 hour vigil, joe, at the kennedy home down at the end of the road over my left shoulder here. and later today, there will be a funeral mass here at the hoemt home in hyannis port. the funeral will leave hyannis port on its way to massachusetts. the flag-draped coffin will be taken to the john f. kennedy library, a neighborhood in boston. it will lie in repose for a couple of days.

on friday, the funeral mass here will be held at the mission church in the mission hills section of boston which is aadjacentent ironically enough to one of the world's most famous medical centers. and located in that medical center near mission church. about 500 yards from the mission church, you have the world famous children's hospital, the world famous dana farber cancer clinic. all of these institutions have received enormous benefits from having had senator ted kennedy in the united states senate for all of these years and citizens from all over this country and all over the world come to these institutions for treatment. so there's a really poignant irony going on here. >> and mike, obviously, is a massachusetts native. we talked about it earlier. this is really the end of an american epic, the end of what jackie started dubbing camelot in the weeks after jfk was

killed at the end of '63. this is really the end of a chapter of american history, isn't it? >> yeah, joe. there's no doubt about that. this closes the book on a lot of what has happened and, you know, i know for a fact that senator kennedy himself has alluded to this or had alluded to this in the days and weeks prior to his death. he had a conversation with a very good friend of mine about two weeks ago about what his passing would mean to the fact that the kennedys would no longer play the piston role in state politics here in massachusetts that they have, obviously, for 50 years and he wondered allowed to my friend about what that would mean on the national stage, as well. >> you know, pat, as a conservative, with even as a conservative, i've always followed the kennedys and read every book i could about the kennedys. and it was interesting listening to you yesterday also as a guy on the right talking about how

your political career, your life has been framed by this family. >> you know, it is -- if you go back to jack kennedy, as chris did yesterday, that attempt to win the viewpointal nomination in 1956 up to 2009, you get about one-fourth of the history of the republic almost in which the kennedy name, the kennedy family, the kennedy dynasty, the kennedy tragedy, all the other things associated with it have been really part of the furniture of our minds and of our lives. and even though one kennedy was president for less than three years, jack kennedy and the bushes, for example, were in the white house for 12 years. i would guess there's probably 20 books on the kennedys for all the books on the bushes who had enormous influence on american history and it is -- your whole life has been lived with this family, knowing about it, reading about it, hearing about

it, reading books about it, movies about it. it is extraordinary in its impact, joe. i don't know of anything like it through american history. >> wous in and out, let's bring in the managing editor of the "new york times." jill abrahams says this, the fate of kennedy's cause remains in the hands of a confliktd congress and president obama, the democratic candidate whom mr. kennedy dared to champion when others did not. and while his leadership will be missed in the incident cat legislative warfare ahead, it would be a fitting tribute of his death could resolve an issue too long in doubt. >> thanks for having me. >> answer pat buchanan's question. why is it that the kennedys have had so much books written about them and have had so many followers compared to, say, the

bushes, who had two presidents, who had a senator, who had a governor in jeb. in fact, even if jeb were to be elected president down the road and there were three bushes who were president, they would never capture the imagination the way these kennedy brothers did. >> it tracks back to their family, and joseph kennedy who was so determined to see at least one of his sons become president and the narrative of the brothers, one kind of passing the torch to the next was just so compelling. and, of course, tragedy befell the family and repeatedly and that is not true of the bush narrative. so, you know, there couldn't have been a more dramatic political family saga in our national life all of these decades. >> yeah. you know, chris, you have obviously been following the kennedys for years and you've

got a documentary on the brothers tonight. >> right. >> that was actually planned before we heard the sad news yesterday. and it's getting good reviews unlike anything we've seen here. so congratulations on that front. so tell us, what did you learn about the kennedy brothers that you didn't know before. >> the amazing way in which they -- before and after their deaths, seem to melt together. and the producers picked up on this more than i did. it was collaborative. the idea that -- just like you pointed out so accurately -- that jackie had this notion of camelot with teddy white and those of us who lived through it, it was the new frontier, it was politics, it was gritty. it wasn't a colorized romance. it was politics and it was

alive. it was real. after jack died, bobby became the torchbearer and he built this notion of his brother's era all the way through, of course, that dramatic scene at the democratic convention in '64 when he spoke of his brother as if he were hamlet. it was amazing, his knock at johnson, the garish day, the garish son. that was johnson. >> that was awful. >> that was awful. and it was a knock against the south, too, in a way. and then came teddy in that amazing oration at the eulogy at st. patrick's. he saw and war and tried to end it. that speech made bobby a saintly figure, which he was not. he was a mcarthy guy, a punch them below the belt at times, very tough customer, very tough.

but he gave him a kind of saintly quality. and each one to the other lent the brother a quality they didn't have in life to the point where all three of them -- and the only one that got sort of short circuited was joe jr. and there was this great moment, i did come across myself, there was that book i spent nine years working on, kennedy and nixon about the whole saga of this rivalry where with at the 1946 birthday party for jack, there was only one person there who was not a family member, and he told me the story of mike dalton. he said after all the brothers were sucking up to jack because he was about to be a congressman, little teddy stood up and this was so much the child being the father of the man, teddy stood up and said i'd like to offer the drink -- he said it wrong -- he said i'd like to offer a drink to the brother who is not here. he was thinking of joe jr. and when the others had all forgotten him even a couple years after his death. so teddy was always the brother.

i think if you wrote a book, it would be called the brother, not just the last brother. he was always thinking of the others. in fact, i've heard these wonderful stories. tom mount, the film producer years ago told me the story about how teddy, when he was drinking would sit in the basement and look at his brothers' pictures sent mentally, just going over the pictures, commemorating the brothers in this most powerful way. they died young. they will never be old. and here is an older guy, 70 something years old, living for 40 years. jack's life was a roman candle. the algeria speech, '57, '59, he had about a five, six-year run, really. bobby had about a five-year run. teddy's run, if you will, was from '68 to 2009 as the kennedy. >> right. >> he carried that torch for 40-some years. >> and jill this morning, even george will saying he is the

kennedy that -- and pat buchanan earlier saying it, as well, the kennedy that changed the way we live more than any other kennedy. >> and that's because of his career in the senate. and i -- one of the people i talked to yesterday was the historian, robert karo. and he, of course, wrote "master of the senate." the wonderful book about lyndon johnson which begins with a history of the senate itself and karo was saying, kennedy as the senator ranked up there with nora and that, like them, he had picked issues and he would work on them for decades. and even if he began deeply out of step with the rest of the country, like them, he would just keep pushing along and sometimes the country would catch up to where he had been. so that was part of the reason on our front page today that we

picked the photograph that we used which shows kennedy at work, in the capital, preparing for a patient's bill of rights rally. and, really, being that kind of workhorse senator who did the work. and that is really going to be his main legacy, i think. >> you know, mike barnacle, as we remember teddy over these last few days, we keep hearing he was a consummate irish politician. but if you read what joe cline writes in time this week, if you read gary will's description of the 1980 campaign and the kennedy imprisonment, you find a quite different ted kennedy, an awkward, stiff, bumbling ted kennedy that had trouble in small crowds, even in 1980. he -- the ted kennedy we all talk about, the garish -- not the garish, but garish irish

paul, that wasn't the ted kennedy of '76 and '80, was it? >> no, no, it wasn't, joe. i mean, ted kennedy sometimes, in private conversations in smaller groups with people who he was unfamiliar with could be awkward, halting in his language, but there was a ted kennedy -- bob will be here in a few seconds -- there was a ted kennedy that too few people saw. and it was the clearly emotional, sent mental, always friendly, always optimistic ted kennedy. if you would go into the home a few hundred yards from us where we are right now, into his home and this was his home, it's a freeze frame of his life. he is forever young in that home. his brothers are forever young in that home. he would become tremendously emotional and sent mental, talking about joe jr., his oldest brother killed in august

of 1944 in world war ii, teaching him how to swim on the beach right here 100 yards from here and the meaning that his brothers and his family had to him and still had to him until the day he died, it was a tremendous emotional bond that i think too few people were aware of in his religion, his faith, his catholic faith which became deeply embedded in him in the last 16, 17 years since his marriage to vickie, all of that, the component part of the man much of which have been talked about publicly. joe, i can't let you go before i put you on the spot. when are you going to start charging me to read the "new york times" online? you have to do that. the "new york times," i love so many things about kennedy, and it's the paper i read every morning and then burn. but we've got to make sure the

times survive. when are you going to start charging? number one, i can tell you with certainty and comments, joe, i can tell you the "new york times" is going to survive and flourish and one of the most active and interesting discussions going on inside the times right now is the issue raised. >> how do we get from here to there? >> well, with stay tuned. stay tuned. >> by the way, congratulations on mark lebowitz's piece. he saved his generosity over a lifetime. he saved that generosity for this piece. don't you think that he rationed it well? >> are you suggesting he didn't -- >> chris, to hear chris -- to hear chris -- >> oh, my gosh. we have all come together as one now. >> cue buy ya.

>> i'm sure lebovich is very pleased. >> it is a superb peace. >> it is a great piece. >> this has been chris matthews segment. it is sponsored by his documentary tonight on the kennedy brothers tonight at 5:00 and 7:00. is that correct? >> 7:00, yeah. >> 7:00. all right. and, of course, jill, thanks so much. >> thanks so much for having me. >> can we still come over and just kind of hang out at the times? any old time, yeah. >> i love it. i'm going to do that. >> we've got bob trump coming up next, a historic figure in ted kennedy's life when we return on "morning joe." the massachusetts governor deval patrick, what is the fate of the kennedy's senate seat? gecko vo: you see, it's not just telling people geico

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with us now from hyannis port along with mike barnacle is the democratic strat gicht and former kennedy speech writer, bob shrum. bob, give us your thoughts. >> first i have to say i helped on that speech. it was his speech. it was his generosity of spirit that -- he was the one that told carrie parker and i worked on that speech. he empowered people around him

because he wasn't one of those politicians who had to have everybody think everything he did was his. i think the mission of his life was to energize more and more people and get them into the public process. >> what was it about that speech that made it perhaps the most dynamic speech of all time? >> well, i think, joe, the clip that you just played symbolizes the spirit of who ted kennedy was, that he did have a dream and he was able to articulate that dream and in quite an emotional fashion that day through bob's help and as bob indicated, carrie parker who worked for senator kennedy for what, three decades? >> from 1969 till today. >> there you go. so senator kennedy stands up and he says, the dream shall never die. and until the moment he died, the dream never died within him

and he wanted to impart that dream on a constant basis to the rest of the republicans. >> can i add asking to that? when he went to denver last summer, he intentionally thought he wanted to last line of the speech to be the dream lives on. he had no illusions. he knew that the cancer he had was terminal. he talked about this as being a season of hope. it was a very brave couple of days. >> joe, here is a little insight, further insight into who ted kennedy really was. as you can probably tell, bob has been on the set in new york several times and people out there in america watching can probably tell thaw bob shrum is not a body builder. so they're going to denver. as a result of the trip to denver, he's traveling with considerable medical equipment,

including canisters of oxygen to help him breathe, high altitude in denver. bob, take it from here. >> well, i felt sorry for the advanced guys carrying this stuff upstairs so i decided i would carry one of these 50 pound oxygen canisters to where they were staying. and i got there and i was houghing and puffing and he looked at me and looked at the doctor who was there with him and said, bob, you need to go see him and, doctor, you need to give him a completely thorough physical. he had an amazing strength because when he gave that speech in denver, he got -- not only got out of a sick bed, he had kidney stones as he gave that speech. they're incredibly painful. and so i cut the speech in half while he was in the hospital. i also came up with a 30-second version. he said, i am not going to the democratic convention to give a 30-second speech. and the next day he was leaping through the speech and he said,

show me the parts you cut. so i showed him and he said, you cut all the best parts and he just started laughing. he had this sense of place and presence about himself. the line he loved that he set off and you have to take issues seriously, but you can't take yourself too seriously. >> we've got three minutes left. i've got a question for you three guys. does the dream still live, chris matthews? >> barack obama has seen the limit of how far america will go over the past nine months. >> he's got to deliver now. he has to step up. barack has been given the torch. i think like no one has ever been given. he's had it for a year. he's got time. i don't believe it's all this year or nothing. but at some point, i think he's going to have to lead and he hasn't done it yet. >> bob shrum, the dream that ted kennedy spoke of, the liberal dream, does that dream still live, even beyond ted kennedy? >> oh, i think it does. and i think there will be a big

test this fall with the health care bill. i think the president has passed a big test with the stimulus bill. joe, i was on the show and people were predicting it was going to be defeated. it's a little bit like now. i think this health care bill ultimately will get enacted. i just wish teddy had lived to see it. >> mike, we've seen the polls drop for the president, we've seen concerns about deficits, spending, americans becoming more conservative, not just politically, but also in their own lives, the savings rate going from zero percent to 7% in about a year's time. does that liberal dream ted kennedy spoke of, does that still live beyond him? >> joe, so long as there is a single american parent out there, raising a child with the hope that that child will do better in this country than he or she, the parent, has done in

this country, that dream will live forever because that dream is a constant eternal of the american republic. >> is that a liberal dream? is that the dream ted kennedy was talking about in 1980, that he was talking about last year? >> no. it's actually a nonpartisan dream. it's the hope that your children will do better in this country than you have done. no matter how they do it, they'll do better in this country than you have done. inge every parent has had that dream since 1776 and we still have it today. it has nothing to do with ideology, it has to do with hope. >> that's why you could get orren hatch, a conservative republican, go to him and say, look, there's all these kids without the money, their parents don't have the money, who need health care in this country. we need to do something about it and they could pass children's health insurance and there are 7 million kids in this country today who are getting that health care because of ted

kennedy. >> hatch still can't sing, though. >> i think he's still pretty good. teddy always told him he was good. >> chris, real quickly, we've got to go. >> bob shrum, very lucky to have worked with ted kennedy and ted kennedy was very lucky to have bob shm together. this was an amazing partnership between these two fellows, one of them is still alive. it's like jack kennedy and ted sorensen, very important historically, very important. >> bob shrum, thank you very much for being with us. good to see you. coming up next, massachusetts governor deval patrick. also, we will be diving into savannah guthrie's s.a.t. scores when we return. most for headaches.

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and even though we have known this day for some time now, we awaited it with no small amount of dread. since teddy's diagnosis last year, we've seen the courage with which he battled his illness, his fight has given us the opportunity we were denied with his brothers, john and robert, were taken from us. the blessing of time to say thank you and good-bye. >> with us now, democratic governor, massachusetts governor deval pattic. governor, governor, governor of massachusetts that needs a senator, what are you going to do about it? >> the first thing we're going

to do is grief this enormous loss. he was a larger than life character and record and very down to earth at the same time as so many of your guests have talked about this morning and worked with the legislature to -- >> no, i'm sorry, we've got a delay here. he wrote a letter to you last week, wrote a letter asking that the legislature changes its rule so you can appoint a senator. do you think senator kennedy will get his last wish? >> i think it's a very reasonable request and it was so like senator kennedy to be looking ahead and around the corner and thinking about us when all the rest of us were thinking about him. i think, you know, he supports, as i do, the special election that's provided for in our current law. it will take about five months to have that special election. and what he proposed is that the governor be empowered to appoint an interim senator to serve for

that five months until we have the special election. and given the significance of the proposals before the congress right now, massachusetts needs two voices in the united states senate. so i think if that bill comes to me, i will sign it and i know that the legislative leaders are working there way through the -- both the policy and the politics of trying to get that done. >> let's go to mike barnacle and bob shrum. mike, do you have a question for the governor? >> good morning. >> i feel badly for you, governor, because with the exception of a handful of people in the legislature, i've always believed most of them are currently holding the best job that they'll ever have or that they could ever get. >> that is not helpful to our current cause.

>> that being said, governor, is there anything in your toolbox that you could use to get this common sense application applied to this situation? because i think many people in the state agree with you, that the state does need two senators right away, immediately. so is there any pressure that you can bring to bear as governor, up for re-election yourself, upon the legislators, a free fish dinner or something might do it. is there anything you can do? >> well, within the gift limits, probably a free fish dinner would be helpful. but look, i'm talking regularly with the legislative leaders and they are not -- at least i sense in principal opposed to the idea. they're just trying to figure out how to get it done. and principally, that's their job. they have to continue to get the votes.

i'll talk with them and talk with individual members. i can't act without them giving me the power to act, but i think that the case for the need of two voices in the united states senate, under any circumstances, but especially now with these profoundly important proposals before the congress on health care or climate change or all the different ways in which the states look to the federal government for help right now to help us bridge to better times, to help people get back to work. >> really quickly, though, governor, let's get to the bottom of this. who is your biggest obstacle in the legislature? who is stopping this? who is against this? >> well, there's a pend actually pending already and the thinking in the legislature has been that they would take up that bill sooner than they might in the normal course and make necessary amendments to get it aligned to what the senator was asking for. and i think we ought to do this for the senator and for -- >> who is against that? who is your obstacle? >> i don't -- i'm not sure that

i can identify the obstacles yet. you hear a lot of chatter from republican leadership in the legislature. i mean, ironically, they proposed this very change in 2004. so if anybody is talking about what pocksy, it's their hypocrisy. if it was good policy then, it's good policy now. >> isn't there two sides of that coin, governor? >> say it again. didn't democratic resist or they wanted this change when it sooud suited them and didn't want it when it didn't suit them? isn't that the argument? >> well, that's part of the argument, yeah. now, i wasn't there, so i don't -- i'm not familiar and i'm not trying to be familiar with all that history. i'm looking at the here and now and the sense of it in the here and now and i think it is sensible and we ought to support it. >> governor patrick, thank you so much for being with us. it's always great talking to you. when we come back, we're going to get a check on business before the bell with mark haines when we return.

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we're getting new economic data right now, including revised gdp numbers. let's go to my man crush at cnbc, mark haines live at the new york stock exchange. mr. hanes, how are you doing this morning? >> real good. how are you? >> i don't think i've ever been better, mark. >> really? >> talking to you, baby, one-on-one, does it get any better than that? >> probably not. >> answer my question. does it? no. >> no. >> so how is the economy? >> not bad. >> happy days here again? >> no, but the end of the world is gone. we got past that one. >> thank god.

>> yeah. it's at an end. the data today, sometimes you just can't win. the data today is absolutely unexceptional. the gdp number, this was a revision. we heard the economy shrunk by 1% in the second quarter. now they're telling us it didn't change. it's still 1%. and jobless claims came in at a rather high 570,000 people. but that was exactly what wall street expected. so the data are to be grammatically correct, completely unexceptional and the futures are reflecting that. they're up just a little bit. there is a note, i know that barnacle looks me to look for rays of sunshine and i just wanted to -- hold on just a second.

my computer moved off the story. i got it right here. okay. for the optimist's pleasure, swiss watchmakers are approaching the christmas period with cautious optimism, viewing an uptick in demand, pun i assume unintended, as a sign that the watch crisis is over. >> oh, great. cue happy days are here again. >> swiss watchmakers are happy. >> mark haines, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> now, last week, woodstock celebrated its 40th an seriousry. here now, dave marsh who has an article in the latest relix magazine who has an article on woodstock. >> thank you, joe. >> i don't remember a lot from high school, but did not used to have a rolling stone book collection of just about every

album every done, record gief with -- >> yeah. >> the blue one or the red one? >> both. >> i had the red one. >> that is the first one. >> yeah. that was my bible. but here, i am shocked and stunned. i always thought i was born late, i missed all the great music. but you had a chance to go to woodstock and you're like, nah! >> i went to see mitch rider. >> and your logic was, i'm going to see these guys, anyway, later on. >> well, or i had already seen them a couple times, you know. >> you kind of missed that boat, didn't you? >> i didn't feel like i missed a whole lot. i've camped and i've seen rock and roll. camping does not involve 500,000 people, right? >> right. >> rock 'n' roll does not involve necessarily mud, rain and lack of sanitation, food, and only brown rice and vegetables to eat. >> and you say in this pace, you don't buy into the whole

woodstock nation. >> well, you did for a couple of weeks after the event. i think everybody did right after because it was a time of something happened there. we were more than we -- there were more of us than we thought there were or there was more appeal to this or something. but as you looked at it more, you know, it's interesting what the movies don't show. i was thinking about in this morning, that, in fact, if you showed woodstock the way they showed india in slum dog millionai millionaire, you would have about the same sanitation. and that's -- you know, that's a bad thing and i've been writing this for years, that, in fact, the future that we were dreaming of and trying to work towards did not consistent of squatting in the mud, taking what you were given. it consisted of something more activist. >> right. and you had -- you talked about, also, how this was one of the least -- one of the more poorly organized rock concerts. >> it was horribly organized. >> and even talked about how all

the groups were threatened, saying if you ask for money, we're going to call you out. the who basically said, screw you, give us our money. >> it's funny, because that's been the news break from this story. i wrote that in my biography of the who 20 years ago. but now it's news. but i think what happened at woodstock in the 30th anniversary in 1999 where they were gouged by the promotors, where there was arson, where there was rain, took the sheen off it for a lot of people and i think now people are ready to ask more questions about it. but it wasn't a bad offense, either. it was an ambiguous offense. i think the great stuff happened on the stage mostly. >> and there are so many incredible moments. i bought the records and when i grew up, i watched the movie. it was incredible, music, he hendrix. >> the who ten years ago. >> crosby still, young --

>> richie havens right at the beginning. >> freedom, that was amazing. >> making the song up as he goes along. >> but there was a great moment, and you write about it, too, i loved it when pete townsend, one of my heroes, took his guitar, i think it was an sg, to abby hoffman basically saying, don't preach politics on my stage. >> i have to be the only person who talked to abby and pete about this. abby's thing was, i'm sorry, i should have told pete and the band what i was going to do. pete says, geez, if i had known what he was going to say, i wouldn't have smacked him. so in a weekend of great communication, this was a failure. >> that was a communication failure. but abby hoffman was talking about john sinclair and john sinclair, also, john lennon wrote a song about john sinclair. it ain't fair. they basically sent john sinclair up the river for giving away a couple of joints. >> not for a minute, either, for

9 1/2 to 10. >> right. >> i had covered that story and been in the courtroom the day that that happened. so for me, it was a -- that was a very personal part of it and also, because, you know, i did already know townsend a little bit. i had already medicine abby hoffman a couple of times. that, for me, was like -- i looked at that and i went, i'm going to spend the rest of my life processing this. i had no idea i'd spend the rest of my life talking about it. >> thanks for being here. i hope you come back. >> i'd love to. >> i'm a big fan of yours. i love your writing. you're lucky you were born when you were born. 9 1/2 to 10 for two joints? >> dude, dude. you will not have escaped high school. >> nope. >> and now we're in the middle of the legalization movement. my time has come. >> i think we're at the end of

the legalization movement. >> appreciate it. we've got more morning joe when we come back, including more thoughts on senator kennedy from hyannis port. capturing the beauty of nature. sharing what i see. that's my vision. and i'm living it. everyday transitions lenses are there to help care for my sight. announcer: transitions lenses adjust to changing light to reduce glare and help protect your eyes from uv damage, so you can see better today and tomorrow. live your vision.

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welcome back to morning joe. we're going to give you a little morning joe moment here. savannah has been pushy all week and now she's hijacking this segment. i understand you picked a moment? >> i tried. there weren't that many, but we did fine one. >> good. >> you were very attractive, young, do you think you'll have a problem having eight kids through the perspective suitor? >> i'm not worried about it. >> review got eight kids, you're carrying a lot of bags through the airport, dame. >> copenhagen, denmark. >> coming up, angie dickinson. you've got to love larry king. you have to love larry king. >> nice choice. >> yeah, it was good. i like larry's honesty. eight kids, it's not attractive. up next, what if anything

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welcome back to morning joe. let's go to hyannis port and

talk to mike. what did you learn? >> i learned to keep quiet and listen to bob shrum's stories about one thing the bobby kennedy truly loved, the ocean and his boat, the mya. >> one night after dinner he said, let's go for a sail and is a fuel moon. we had a wonderful time, mike has done this a thousand times, turns the engine on to get you to the buoy, it won't turn on. we're in a boat, it's nighttime. he managed to sail the boat to the buoy and attach it to the buoy. now, people that aren't sailors won't understand that and how hard it is. eld love me to tell that story. >> what did you learn, mriek? mike? >> did you learn anything, joe? >> yeah, i learned that, you know, this is probably the end of the story in terms of camelot as we've been alluding to, but it's a story in some sense that

will live forever as long as history is told. >> i learned those are two great guys right there. i learned mike has the central park sunglasses on. >> ladies of the cape, cape cod, the police will be flashing a warning on the bottom of your screen in the next 15 to 20 minutes if you were walking anywhere on the cape from hyannis port out to province town and you see a man in the glasses that you see on this screen, please, pick up the pace. what did you learn, savannah? >> that the massachusetts state legislature won't be naming any state bridge or highways after mike barnacle. there's no love loss there. >> i learned that you have to be very tall to work here. men are all over six foot. >> 6'4", 6'3",