and by the people whom he served and was so dedicated to. >> you know, andrea, there's not one part of my life as a physician that hasn't in some way been touched by what senator kennedy had done, from biomedical research, stem cell research, really advocating for the ill, the disenfranchised. so i recognize that this is a complicated journey that we're all on to sort of fully describe him, but the extraordinary impact he had on health and wellness and the lives of the average american cannot go unnoticed. >> no. those are some of the sign posts that we're going to be discussing today as we talk about this legacy on all domestic issues. health care, of course, was his dying wish, something that was not yet achieved and something that may not be achieved, certainly not in his lifetime and maybe not three years to come, but it is a complicated legacy, as you point out, and

we'll be talking about all of that with our guests, coming up. especially the civil rights legacy, as wre interview, among others, vernon jordan, the great civil rights leader and friend of ted kennedy. >> andrea mitchell, "andrea mitchell reports," stay tuned, everyone. thanks, andrea. >> thank you. and as we begin with this special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" live from the john f. kennedy presidential library here in boston, as you can see, we are gathered for this special edition. at this hour, people of massachusetts whom the late senator loved so well are going to have their chance as well as the rest of the nation, their first chance to say good-bye and farewell to senator edward m. kennedy. at this hour, the final chapter of ted kennedy's half century of public service is being written. right now, his family will be escorting his casket from that fabled summer home in hyannis port on the familiar route that the family has taken to travel to boston on their way from hyannis port.

the motorcade will be passing, as we have been describing, a series of sentimental landmarks. first, the neighborhood where his mother rose kennedy was born. this in the north end. then the house where his brother, john, lived when he first ran for congress. and then on to where he first announced that he was going to be running for president. all of these sentimental locations, as well as the state office here in massachusetts, when he passes fa newell hall, boston's mayor will be ringing a bell 47 times to mark the 47 years of service in the senate. and as we wait for the motorcade to leave from hyannis port, here the people are already beginning to congregate. this procession will have a chance to bring the casket here. we expect they will be arriving

around 4:00 or 4:30 this afternoon. and finally, at this library he helped dedicate. it was back in 1993 when he and president kennedy first came to dedicate this library. joining me now from nearby martha's vineyard, vernon jordon, the very good friend of ted kennedy's and a civil rights leader, head of the national urban league, had an important role to play in those early years of ted kennedy's political career. vernon, thanks for joining us today, on a windy day here in boston. first of all, let's talk about the role that the kennedys played. ted kennedy, very early in his career, talked about what his brother, john f. kennedy meant in terms of desegregation. let's listen to a little bit of

ted kennedy back in the 1960s. >> my brother was the first president of the united states to state publicly that segregation was morally wrong. his heart and his soul are in this bill. if his life and death had a meaning, it was that we should not hate, but love one another. we should use our powers not to create conditions of oppression that lead to violence, but conditions of freedom that lead to peace. >> of course, president kennedy was not able to fulfill that, nor did robert kennedy. what role did ted kennedy play in trying to live up to that dream of desegregation and full equality? >> well, first of all, andrea, senator ted kennedy took the torch from both of his brothers, john and robert, and moved the ball considerably way beyond

that which their brothers were able to accomplish. much of it had to do with the times. he was, during my time as head of the national urban league, doing my time as director of the vote education project of the southern regional council, always considered him my partner. he was always there in every fight on every issue having to do with civil rights. but my real relationship with him and what means so much to me today as i think about his passing, is that if you remember in 1980, when i was shot in ft. wayne, indiana, it was teddy kennedy who came to my bedside in ft. wayne, indiana. and in july of 1980, when he was campaigning in the bronx, he showed up at amy hospital room n

new york hospital. this was a man of warmth and compassion and caring. and he was a man who went with you, stood by you, and propped you up whenever you had a weak or leaning side. >> you know, vernon, when we think about ted kennedy, we think about a very public man. we think about a great statesman. but one of the things that is so striking about being here in boston and talking to people is he was such a street corner politician. i say that in the best way. and yet his constituents in south boston, in southy, went up against him he was calling for civil rights and desegregation during those really troubled years. and he still went against his constituent base. he went against his political base in ways that many politicians don't have the guts to do. is that a fair assessment? >> well, he was -- that's a fair statement. and he was clearly a man of guts and fortitude and he knew what

was in the best interest of everybody, even those who were opposed to him. and he stuck with his principles. and we should remember him for that. >> what do you think about the next generation of kennedys and the next generation of civil rights leaders. there's so much work yet to be done. where does the torch get passed? >> well, each generation determines its own destiny. and the next generation of kennedys and the next generation of civil rights leaders, they will determine their destiny based on the issues that they're confronted with and based on the opposition that they are confronted, and based on the support that they get. it is not for any of us, it seems to me, to determine for them. they will do it for themselves. >> as we've been chatting, we

see more members of the family gatheri gathering. they had a private mass in hyannis port. then they'll be assembling in the motorcade and coming for this 70-mile trip from cape cod down here. as we're watching all of this happen in front of our eyes at that fabled, iconic location in hyannis port, we're thinking back over the past-year-olds and decades. you knew ted kennedy when he failed to replace jimmy carter at the top of the ticket. how much of a disappointment was it, do you think, that he was never able to get the nomination and run for president? >> well, i don't think we can ever measure the disappointment. i think what we have to measure is what he did with it. he stayed in the senate and he became a great senator and he stayed true to the causes that he believed in. >> one of the thing that is very striking is to see some of the early footage that we played earlier of the civil rights debate in 1964.

when you think back over what the climate was and how the kennedys were not always, as we've now learned, completely supportive in the early years, bobby kennedy, an uneasy relationship with the late martin luther king jr., but ted kennedy really did step into the fulfillment of the dream in a profound way. >> well, he was the -- >> there wasn't a part of his body that wasn't dedicated to this. >> yeah, teddy was the man, and he is the personification of what i think bobby and john ultimately wanted. and i'm sure that they are very pleased with his stewardship. >> and as we're watching and as we're chatting, vernon, patrick kennedy, his son, who, of course, has had his own challenges, the rhode island congressman who has acknowledged that he has had relapses at times and has been in and out of treatment for substance abuse,

this next generation has its big challenges. his daughter, of course, had struggled in 2002 with lung cancer, successfully overcoming that. and in fact, the funeral service on saturday will be held in the basilica where senator kennedy went daily to pray for his daughter's recovery. in this last battle, as you've observed over this past terrible year, it was a year ago this week that he spoke at the democratic convention. when you watched the transition as he joined the obama campaign back in january, january of '08, and then was such an important speaker at the convention and said that he was going to be there on january 20th, he was there, of course, on inauguration day. you were on that platform as well. and then there was a terrible moment at the luncheon when he collapsed. this has been an extraordinary dramatic and brave battle over

this last year and a half. >> there is no question about that. and we will remember this moment and this man, ted kennedy, down through the ages. he made a difference with his politics, with his beliefs, with his actions on behalf of all americans. >> vernon jordan, great friend of the kennedys, great civil rights leader, author, friend, we thank you for joining us today from martha's vineyard. >> thank you, andrea. >> and here in boston with me is another great friend of ted kennedy, tim hagan from ohio, from cleveland, cuyahoga county commissioner. you've noun ted kennedy since the ''70s campaign and you know him as a great irish politician. >> and i should say, as you pointed out at the top of the show, the people of massachusetts, we should all be thanking them for their vote, for ted kennedy over all these years. he not only made a difference in the state, but obviously he made

a difference in the country and for those of us from ohio and around the country, we're grateful of the wisdom of the people of massachusetts and today's an indication of a celebration of a life means a lot to all of us across the country and teddy was a great pal. and he had great influence across the country. >> you're one of the first democratic big politicians from ohio when you were the chairman back in ohio in the '70s. you went and endorsed him in 1980 against a sitting president. that was pretty gutsy. and he repaid that loyalty time and time again. >> well, rerepaid the loyalty and he always had a little joke about it as well. unfortunately, in my political career, i ran for mayor of the city of cleveland and lost, ran for congress and lost, and ran for governor and lost. so it wasn't a star record to speak of. every time i ran, he came in for me, i never called him. he came in and campaigned for

me. and we had this running joke, i ran unopposed for county commissioner, and asked him not to come in, because i found out he was hurting me, and that was our standard line. but he was so loyal and so generous. but in a more personal way, for me, an example. i was coming to washington one day with my mother, who had 14 children, one of the commonality of our relationship was his big family and my big family. but my mother, little italian woman who was inspired, as we all were, by president kennedy, coming to washington and teddy immediately called me and said, i want to have a brunch for your mother at my home. and he invited a number of people. and it was such an honor for my mother to be there and he was so great with her. and that was the kind of personal sense of his politics. he enjoyed the political world. and he shared it with all of us. and he made us laugh, which i hope everybody in this time of

grieving, but in celebrating his life, understand, he was a great pall and he made us all see the folly of things at time and the first to make one of himself. >> but you were in hyannis port just two weeks ago with the family, with gene smith and others, mourning eunice. how are they getting through this? >> well, you know, it's a remarkable example for all of us. you know, each one of them, and the senator in particular, has always said, we've been blessed. and families across america have faced much more difficult times in their lives. and we've had the ability at times, because of our wealth and our privilege, to face up to questions, but we understand that that's what i think people understand about the kennedys. they understood other people's sorrow and tragedy and struggle and they put theirs in that light. and i think that was an example for all of us across the country. >> tim hagan, who knew him as a

friend and as a great deal of fun. >> great fun. i must tell you one quick story, andrea, you would appreciate. i was at the cape one night and we were having a dinner and it was a late dinner. afterwards, ted and i had a few glasses of wine. i think it was just a few. in any event, about 12:30, we began to argue about -- we were both alter boys in catholic church at a time when the latin mass was still served. and we were arguing about the latin mass and who was correct about recalling the specifics of the latin response as altar boys. we got to an impasse and he decided we wouldn't resolve this. so he made both of us creep up the stairs to wake up father creeden and woke him up and said, we've got a moral crisis on our hands, could you come downstairs to help us. and father creeden, not knowing what was going on, got up dutifully and put up with the two palls, came downstairs and

we gave him a glass of wine quickly and we had, went through the complete latin mass and at the end of it teddy said, i told you, i won. that was the i've personality he had. >> two altar boys. thank you so much, tim hagan. >> you're welcome. now back to washington and eugene robinson from "the washington post." eugene, i won't ask whether you were an altar boy or not, but a lot of memories of ted kennedy and what he represented in terms of his legacy in washington. >> yes. his legacy in washington is enormous. the thing that strikes me as we listen to these personal reminiscences over the course of these days is that not only did he have this macroimpact on the country going back to the immigration act of 1965, which was a huge deal and civil rights legislation, up through all his work on health care, but he personally affected so many of us here in washington with his

generosity and his openness, his humor. he was a presence who will be sorely missed. i remember him as a rookie reporter, my first year at "the post," being assigned to do a story about him and what he was doing to help the carter campaign, as someone quipped, it was a rather short story. but he was going to be -- wasn't doing that much, but he was so generous to me, and i was literally nobody, but he was so generous to me with his time and his patience, treated me as the way he would have treated some big network star, who wanted to ask him embarrassing questions about his -- about politics. he was just an extraordinary man and we will miss not only his broad impact on the nation, but his targeted, specific impact on

those of us who were lucky enough to come into his orbit. >> what was the importance, do you think, of his engagement with barack obama during the primary campaign? that decision to endorse barack obama. i know that people can say that hillary clinton won big races on super tuesday even after that january 28th endorsement, but there was a psychological impact on the political party when ted kennedy embraced barack obama, wasn't there? >> it was enormous. it was an enormous impact. and you remember that day the announcement at an american university, was electrifying, i think, to the whole political glass and certainly to this whole city. and i believe to the country, because it was -- he specifically spoke of the passing of a torch. and though many years have

elapsed since camelot, the flame continued to burn. there was a special set of ideals that people associated with the kennedys and ted kennedy was the guardian, the keeper of that flame. and for him to pass it specifically to barack obama, i think, made an enormous difference at that point in the campaign. it gave him a real push. he appeared, as you recalled, also with caroline kennedy, again, reinforcing the notion that this is the inheriter of that whole camelot, not just the mystique, but the substance that went behind it. >> and as we're chatting here, eugene, let me bring in michael beshlash, presidential historian, nbc presidential

historian. michael, the significance. you've been watching the pictures along with me of hyannis port and the preparations for the motorcade to begin. think back to the brothers, robert and john kennedy. this is a kennedy who actually had a full life of service and didn't have to fight myths. he really was a living, breathing, and legislating presence. >> he was. and you know, you look at that house there, the big house, which joe kennedy bought in the 1990s and presided over, that's where that huge family lived in that house and the interesting thing is that joe kennedy, you know, there are a lot of political dynasties in america. the adams, the roosevelts, we could go on, but this is the only one where one man basically said, i'm going to set out in life to establish a dynasty of political figures who could become president. that was joe kennedy. and those ambitions finally fell on the fourth brother.

>> george will was writing today, i think, that the adamses were really a greater political dynasty, if you look at the literary and political contributions of the adams as presidents and their other roles. yet, at the same time, ted kennedy's contributions in our century really were unparalleled. you can talk about clay, you can talk about webster. but within the senate, is this the greatest figure of his century in the senate? >> i think that's not a bit too much. especially because he had 47 years to do it. and, you know, you can compare him to the brothers. unfortunately, john kennedy only had two years, ten months as senate. bobby on only two months in the senate. but there are a lot of senators that serve a long time, but kennedy decided to make use of it. >> and as we sit here, eugene and michael, the family members are beginning to get into the

cars. this motorcade will go 70 miles from hyannis port through the streets, the narrow street there is, all the way to boston. and as we've been describing, understand it arrived in boston, will go past a number of landmarks that are so important in the life of all of the kennedys, particularly senator ted kennedy. the first place he's going is to the north end where his mother was born, baptized, past st. stephens the church, where she was both baptized and her funeral was held. the importance of rose kennedy as the matriarch of this family can't be overstated. >> no, it can't be overstated. remember, she was political royalty, the daughter of the political king of boston. and, you know, michael was talking about the family earlier. one thing i find fascinating is that ted kennedy was, essentially, the perpetual

prince in a family of kings, in the sense that his father was a king, his brother, jack, became a king. joe, the oldest brother, was supposed to be the one who went on to be president, he was supposed to be a king, but he died young. and robert was supposed to be a king, but died young. not teddy. it kind of fell to him as almost a last resort. and he managed to satisfy himself as a prince and find a great role for himself. >> eugene and michael, if you'll both stand by for just a moment. joining us by phone is congressman barney frank. talk about great massachusetts politicians, we've been celebrating the life today, congressman, of a man who was beloved in massachusetts, beloved in massachusetts for being a street corner pall. that's really what he loved most. can you speak to that, that part

of ted kennedy's legacy? >> one of the great thing about senator kennedy's life was he said, the notion that "a" was incompatible with "b." one of the most effective people ever to certain in the senate. secondly, there was this notion that if you're a member of congress and care about great national issues, somehow you must be neglecting local. he was a first-rate local politician. it was in his blood. he was good at it. it was really, you know -- in fact, it was one of the things about his career, he was one of these guys who remained much more effective speaking to an audience he could see and feel than on the tv. sometimes, in fact, people tried to tell him, stop yelling, there's electricity, they can hear you without yelling. and you have to calm it down a little. but very much, he was in touch with the state and a terrific advocate for the state. >> congressman, we've recently

saw the way you handled protesters at a health care forum. how would ted kennedy have handled protesters at a similar event? >> well, i would hope in a similar way, with a good deal of humor and with the presence he had and i think he would have allowed them to voice their feelings, but not be intimidated by them. and i think that's the key. one of the things that made ted kennedy soes effective that he knew who he was and where he was. and he was the, i think, most effective senator that america's seen. but he didn't feel he had anything left to prove. and i think in those kind of situations, he would have been very calm. now, earlier in his life, let's be explicit, this is a man, two of whose brothers were murdereded by political opponents, extreme and crazy political opponents. he lived with this concern that was impressed upon him by

security people that there were other people who wanted to kill him, and more than almost nibble who wasn't president of the united states. he had to live with that. and that was a constraint. and what was remarkable about him was he did not allow that. and i know he was being told constantly by security people, pull back, pull back, don't be there. and he wouldn't let them stop him. >> and you could see that, even as we walked through the halls of congress, he really disdained the security that might have slowed a different person down. he loved interacting with the people. what about the fact that his vote will not be counted and that massachusetts will not be represented? we know the governor has spoken out? do you think they can resolve this succession issue, congressman, and figure out a way to appoint a care taker? >> in two steps. first, we've already lost his voice and it's been many months now since he was last able to participate. and that's slowed things down. we are going to have an election in massachusetts, that's not in question.

and we're going to have as quick an election as you can have. we have a very good election administrator. we will have a clean, honest, open, fast election. but there is a question as to what you do in the interim. and we need to stress that debate is not whether you appoint or elect. it is what do you do during the interim period? i think it makes absolute sense to have someone appointed who will have promised not to run again. you cannot, i think, constitutionally enforce that legally. but i believe you can easily find someone who will say, yes, i'll serve for these months, i'll vote. and that's especially important since the republicans have, announced that they're going to require, if they can, 60 votes. we're not talking about getting a majority of the senate, but getting an extraordinary majority. so i believe it's perfectly consistent with democratic principles. we'll have an election as quickly as possible. the only question is, what do you do during that vacant period? and i think we will have an

appointee who will not himself or herself be a candidate? >> and do you think that you are finally the only member of the congressional delegation who is not trying to angle for that senate seat? >> no, i think there are others too. you know, 2004, most of us weren't thinking about running when john kerry looked like he might become president, because we were the minority, and in the minority, you don't have much of an impact, but now i've got a committee chairmanship that's very important to me and the things i'm trying to do. ed markey is the leading environmental legislator in the congress. jim mcgovern, second on the ways and means -- on the rules committee. so i think three or four may run, but of us have positions now that it would be a mistake to give up. >> barney frank, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts about ted kennedy on this day when, as we've been watching his motorcade, will be coming the 70 miles from hyannis port to

boston. thanks, barney. >> thank you, andrea. and up in hyannis port, peter al zorexander joining us . peter, quite a crowd has gathered outside to watch the motorcade pass by on those narrow streets? >> reporter: andrea, that's exactly the case as the late senator ted kennedy prepares to leave the family's summer sanctuary, dating back to the 1920s. his father bought it in 1928. there are so many other families who have homes here in their family for years. and as you see on the right side of your screen, that is a look at so many of them who have gathered here. some of them standing on their porches on decks with american flags. some of them lining the streets here where ted kennedy lived, the home that once belonged to joe and rose kennedy. among these streets, so many other people who didn't think much of this other than he was a neighbor. ted kennedy was one of their neighbors, more than he was a statesman or a senator.

one of them holding up a sign, as we noted before, that i think said, "memorably, sail in peace." this area, as you were here with us yesterday, so familiar and beautiful for the nantucket sound, "the maya," the sailboat that the senator loved to sail on, the annual race each year that he was a staple of, at the nearby jfk museum along main street in downtown hyannis, if you will, downtown being generous. it doesn't take too long to get through it. there were three condolence notes. one of the notes, there have been uttered many adjectives to describe teddy, all well deserved, but to me, it's just two simple adjectives, caring and compassionate. i can't imagine a case without our teddy. andrea? >> thanks so much, peter. as the airplanes pass overhead from logan, one of those planes just brought in lester hotel. joining me now my colleague and

anchor of "nbc nightly news" and weekend nightly, thank you so much. we've been talking wour guests about ted kennedy the politician, and the politician that managed to live beyond the mythic stage. his brothers, tragically, became enlarged by death. >> well, they did, because they died so young. and we have them pictured until the day they died as young, vital men. ted kennedy, we saw him grow old, saw him gain weight, all the things that happen to people as they approach in their 70s and finally the disease that took his life. but he also in that time, you know, we were able to see him really as the man of the people. that's a term i think a lot of politicians would like to ascribe to themselves. but i was trying to think how to articulate it and in the car coming here, the guy driving me, he said, you know, mr. hotel, ted kennedy has been my senator since i was 1 years old, the guy is 47 years old. he says, you know, when people would criticize senator kennedy from out of the state, i would

say, knock it off. we can criticize, here's our uncle. that's the way they looked at him. here's our uncle, our guy, part of the family. we would see him around. we knew he had, you know, had some rough spots. we could deal with that, we could talk about it, but you be careful. >> the way you forgive people in your own family. >> sure. and that's the way he was regarded. this is one man and i'm sure there are many different opinions, but he articulated in a way that it hasn't sunk in yet. he's always been part of our lives. >> and in fact, there are three united states senators who were born after ted kennedy was elected to the senate. >> it's remarkable. i want to get this fact right, but i think, 1947, this only marks the second time that there hasn't been a kennedy representing -- >> that itself is remarkable. >> and the two-year period after jack kennedy died, in which a family friend held the seat until ted kennedy was elected. >> and right after bobby died, before teddy was elected. >> yeah. and the -- this is a state that

there's always been a kennedy there. >> the essence of ted kennedy was of a constituent serving politician here in massachusetts. yet, at the same time, he managed to take on the big issues. we were talking to vernon jordan earlier, how he went up against the wishes of, certainly, south boston, in becoming the real civil rights leader that he was in the senate. >> he did. you know, civil rights was -- he talked about health care as being the cause, but on many civil rights fronts, he did what he thought was best. he views his own moral compass as sometimes wasn't lockstep with his constituents. but when you hear even his critics talk about it, and they all say the same thing, he was a man of conviction. you know, he knew what he supported and he was unapologetic about that. and i think that's why you're hearing so much respect from so many quarters that may not have been big fans of senator kennedy, but respected him for

what he was. >> and today is really a day for the public. you'll be anchoring "nightly news" here tonight. this location, this kennedy library, i recall the dedication in 1993 when i was covering bill clinton. clinton came, and when you think about the people who were here for the dedication, there was john jr. and jackie kennedy and teddy kennedy and really the only surviving immediate family member who was at that dedication with bill clinton in 1993 is caroline. >> we've watched this family throughout all of its tragedies over the years and think about all these gatherings. that happened to be a positive gathering. so many times we've seen them, obviously, during much darker hours. it will be interesting here today to watch this. originally, they had talked about maybe 10:00 cutting off the line, but now they're saying they'll let people stand in line as long as it takes. >> and they say the members of the family will be accompanying the casket here on its slow journey and they're obviously

getting off to a later start than they had expected, by at least an hour already, but as they're preparing for that motorcade, you're seeing the pictures in hyannis port from the compound. they're going to be making this slow trip to boston and then the members of the family are going to be in line, taking turns, just as they stood a silent vigil at the casket. >> there will always be a member of the family here, and that's important, because that family is so inextricably linked with this state. and i think folks would expect that. >> joining us now from california, lester, is bill caric, a long time and long-ago ted kennedy aide and now a democratic strategist. bill, when you think back of the ted kennedy, the politician, and especially the decision when prior to the 1984 race, he decided not to make another run at the presidentsy, tell me about that time. some of you gathered in mcclain

and he was deciding not to take on that challenge once more. how difficult was that for him? >> well, i think it was obviously very difficult decision, but he decided, you know, that for a lot of reasons, primarily personal, that he wasn't going to put his family through the -- another campaign, another presidential campaign. literally, all of his nieces and nephews dropped whatever they were doing in 1980 and were on the campaign full time. it was a remarkable family endeavor. so i think he decided, you know, he wasn't going to do that, wasn't going to put the family through it. and i think in the period between the 1980 presidential campaign and 1984, he found himself in the role of representing the democratic party as a challenge president reagan on a lot of his particularly domestic policies. and i think he felt that that was an important role and he wants to continue that unencumbered by the demands of a presidential campaign. >> wasn't there something

liberating about that decision, bill? >> oh, i think that, you know, i think there's clearly, as you know, andrea, there are so many people that are presumed in the united states senate, are presumed to be presidential candidates and everybody's motives become suspect. i think the reality was when senator kennedy was in a .

. always thinking ahead of how he could be the most effective u.s. senator he could possibly be. >> well, thank you, bill careick. in fact, he ended up with his saying that that vote against the war in iraq and his subsequent tough questioning which followed don rumsfeld, he thought that that vote against the iraq war was a defining one and was perhaps his most important vote in the senate. so it was foreshadowed by that decision to get on the armed services committee as well.

thank you, bill careick, for your recollections. thank you, lester holt. i know you've got to prepare for your reporting on "nightly news." and joining us now from "the washington post," dan balz. dan, there's so much to talk about when you think about ted kennedy's legacy, domestic, foreign, the statesman, the pal. what about his impact in presidential campaigns that you've covered? >> well, andrea, it's been a big impact. you can start, obviously, with the endorsement of barack obama in late january, 2008, which i think the obama campaign rightly recognizes as a pivotal moment in the campaign that obama won against hillary clinton. it came right after his big victory in south carolina, after the most divisive primary that they ran. it gave the campaign a big boost, it gave them a lift. they were heading into super tuesday at that point, which they always believed was going to be one of their most difficult days, because many of

those states just set up better for hillary clinton. but the endorsement of senator kennedy brought an infusion of energy and excitement and really anticipation to the obama campaign that allowed them not just to weather super tuesday, but actually come out with a few more delegates. so that was critical. he was very instrumental, i think, in helping john kerry in late 2003 and early 2004 to revive a campaign that a lot of people thought was more about howard deen in late 2003, was the hot democratic candidate. ted kennedy came in and i recall watching him at events in iowa, the energy that he brought. i mean, he had almost kind of a perfect pitch with iowans. and his ability to campaign there. so he was very helpful there. he was certainly helpful to al gore in the 2000 race. so his impact on presidential campaigns beyond the one that he tried and failed in was quite significant.

>> in fact, i recall -- you can recall that the perfect pitch of ted kennedy in iowa, in that kerry race, in those primary elections was the counterpoint to the imperfect pitch of howard de dean on that election night and his concession speech. that's another story. but as you recounted the impact in 2008 in "the battle for america: 2008," the book in which you and haynes johnson go through the real insights that you gained by talking to all of these people back then. by the way, we're watching and waiting for the motorcade to leave hyannis port. there will be a time when the casket is brought out and these pictures will not be shown, but the family is assembled there, they've had their private mass, and then they will be gathering and taking the ride to boston where we are awaiting their arrival later this afternoon at this very spot. dan, when you think back tor th

other race, the jimmy carter race, some have suggested that jimmy carter may have had a better chance of being re-elected if he had not had that tough primary fight. >> i think that may be the case. the reality is, he was pinned down with a lot of problems, not least of which being the iran hostage crisis. >> iran. >> so that was certainly a major weight around his next. but to have to go through a difficult primary against ted kennedy, even though he ended up winning it, it took a toll on the entire party. the divisions from that race lasted for many years within the democratic party. there was the kennedy side and the carter side. so there's no question that kennedy's challenge to jimmy carter in late 1979 and 1980 certainly helped drag down jimmy carter in his re-election campaign. >> in fact, he very halfheartedly campaigned for jimmy carter. did a few events, very minor

events, but never really got into the swing of it. we certainly saw at the convention in madison square garden, there was never really a coming together. dan, also joining us now, rejoining us is michael beschloss. we've been talking about ted kennedy as a figure in political campaigns, but also internationally. ted kennedy had a moral authority, northern ireland comes to mind. there were other issues, the iraq war we talked about memorably. he, as a member of the armed service committee, but also as a candidate, he immediately was rejected on the international stage. >> that's for sure. in the mid1970s, for instance, he went to the soviet union a number of times and would always be taken in to see the chief leader. because they figured he was a future president and they wanted to stay on his good side. and he always had guts when heb.

on occasion, he did. >> the other thing that comes to mind is the relationship with nancy and ronald reagan. dan, nancy reagan has spoken out very touchingly about the connection between, as she refers to him, ronny, and ted. and she mentioned that ted kennedy called and wanted president reagan to go to the mcclain library and do an event, a local event, fund-raiser for them, and that he happily did. they got together, there was the irish connection. they liked to share a glass of wine together. but they also loved to tell stories. both of them were really great storytellers. >> andrea, we think so much more about the relationship between ronald reagan and tip o'neill, who was speaker of the house in those days, another irishman of renowned, but i think it has surprised some people to learn

that ted kennedy had a solid relationship with ronald reagan and also with nancy reagan. frankly, it was interesting, yesterday morning, to go on the senator's website and to look at the first statements that had been posted after his death. and one of the first was from nancy reagan, a very touching statement from her about his passing. so it was not a relationship that was as well known as the one between tip o'neill and ronald reagan, but it certainly existed and we are learning more about that in these days. >> in fact, dan and michael, one of the issues, of course, was stem cell research, which was so important to her, in which she helped propel. >> that's right. the ted kennedy was an alliance with nancy reagan against many members of her own party, especially against president george w. bush. can i say a word about the picture we're seeing on the screen. maybe it only occurs to me as a wonk about these things, but i have seen -- >> that's why we love you.

>> what can you do? but the morning after the 1960 election, i've watched more than once nbc's coverage, which you can actually see on youtube and other places, and what you see is john kennedy coming out of the house that we're looking at. you remember those pictures that we've seen, especially during the last day, of the whole kennedy family in the living room of this house. they came out, john kennedy got into a white lincoln, sat in the front seat next to the driver, one of the last times he would do that, came out of this driveway and drove through the streets of hyannis port to the hyannis armory, where he made that speech saying, my wife and i look forward to a new administration and a new baby. ted kennedy was standing right at his side. and in a way, this is the other book end to the kennedy period of, you know, great prominence and national life, which is really from 1960 to this moment. >> which is exactly the insight that you bring to us. thank you so much, michael. stay with us. dan balz, thank you so very much. we're going to take a few

moments for a break, a few messages. then we're going to talk to jane oates, a former staff aide who helped ted kennedy legislate in the senate on education policy. stay with us. you're watching a special edition of "andrea mitchell reports," live from the john f. kennedy memorial library in boston. 90s slacker hip-hop. ♪ singer: buckle up, everybody 'cause we're taking a ride ♪ ♪ that can strain your relationships and hurt your pride ♪ ♪ it's the credit roller coaster ♪ ♪ and as you can see it kinda bites! ♪ ♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪ ♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dot com - stat! ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage.

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and you're now looking at live pictures as we see the casket is coming out of the kennedy compound. it's going to be loaded into the hearse and the motorcade is going to proceed on its way to boston. it's already leaving the compound there, as we see the military escorts, flag draped casket of senator edward m. kennedy. the casket will be loaded into the hearse. it is a 70-mile trip to boston. this is after a private funeral mass was held with the family inside the house. on that porch, the wraparound porch at the house in hyannis port. i'm here with michael beschloss, who has seen so much history

here. this is the most poignant picture. >> it's heartbreaking. can you remember the times we've seen images of ted kennedy from the ages of 5 -- >> now we see the children, see vicki reggie, see the children. >> just coming off that porch. >> gene smith, the last surviving sibling of the original kennedy family members. >> and that's the lawn where president kennedy's helicopter used to land when he was president. >> vicki reggie kennedy, who has two children, who senator kennedy has raised as his own, along with his three children, kara, who suffered from cancer, lung cancer in 2002, in 2002. all of the challenges he's faced over these years. 77 years with incredible spirit. the setbacks in 1969, obviously chappaquiddick most memorably.

the failed campaign in 1980. his reconciliation in 1982 to the fact he'd never been president of the united states. what a career he had, michael. >> you were talking about his decision not to run for president in the early 1980s. that was expressed at a family meal right inside this house when he told his children who were thrilled. they thought it would be great for them and especially great for him. >> the campaign had been so difficult. obviously, a difficult and troubled marriage held together through that 1980 campaign. joan valiantly campaigning at his side. as we watch the casket being carried by the pallbearers, the military honor guard there. jane, this is a difficult time to come to you, and my condolences. i know how close you are and were to the senator. you worked at his side and helped him manage so many pieces

of legislation in the senate. you're now the assistant secretary of labor in the obama administrati administration. if you could reminisce and share with us what it was like to work on legislation with ted kennedy. >> andrea, thank you. it's almost impossible to describe. he was at the same time the most -- the toughest boss i ever had and the best boss. he required so much information. he wanted to know every aspect of every part of the bill, and he just made all of his staff stretch to the point where they were the best that they could be. he was amazing. >> we also hear -- we hear it told that he has the best senate staff. i observed that myself when i covered the senate. you're an example of that. you and your colleagues. when you were working round the clock on no child left behind and other education bills, when you were on that committee staff, how much of a force was he? how engaged was he in every bit,

every detail of the legislative compromises? >> he was a 100%. >> while we're talking, we're watching the family standing in honor of their lost husband and brother and father and stepfather. could not be a more moving moment. patrick, vicky, gene smith who just buried eunice two weeks ago. speak to that for a moment, jane. first he and vicky did all of the information gathering to find out where to go for help, the surgery at duke, the subsequent treatment in massachusetts. they had the best care possible. that's the care that he devoutly

wished for all americans. >> that's exactly right. you know, andrea, firsthand anybody in their wide net of friends who ever needed that assistance, they put that same effort into getting them the best medical care, getting them the best attention of doctors. i mean, it -- they are just -- and always will be such an amazing, an amazing couple so filled with love and caring for everyone. not just their immediate family who was so important to both of them and remains so important, but also to this huge extended kennedy family of staff and really massachusetts and the world. everybody got their attention when they were in a time of need. >> we see vicky now and the family, the children going towards the motorcade. they're going to be following the hearse for 70 miles. it's going to be very emotional for them. they went through the year and a

half dealing with the illness and treatment and all of the arrangements they've had to make, but now they'll see the public respond. i know it's been reassuring and comforting to vicky. but i think tangibly seeing the crowds along the route, the neighbors there in hyannis port and the crowds in boston, it's going to be quite a challenge. comforting and very emotional. it reminds me of robert kennedy's funeral train. >> absolutely. that was -- took something like 7 our 8 hours from new york to washington, d.c., which is usually about a 2 1/2 hour trip. the reason is there were so many cub scouts and kids and parents and old people all along the route that wanted to see that train and they went very slowly so everyone could be greeted and a have a look. on that train and you might hear it said today arthur schlesinger

jr. said ken o'donnell, what great crowds and o'donnell was always a realist, said, yeah, but what are they good for now? bobby isn't running. >> bobby, not the last of the kennedys, but senator ted kennedy, one of the last, the last of his generation to hold public office. and now jane oates, talk a bit about senator kennedy and how he fought against public opinion. we see caroline and others in the family. we know the family well. how he fought for things he believed in even though it was not popular in massachusetts and with his political base. >> andrea, he was so ahead of his time on every issue. whether it was fighting in the beginning for head start or fighting for the minimum wage, which he did his entire career, or most currently fighting for health care. this current health care debate started years ago when nancy

cassle bomb was in the senate and resulted in things like s-chip. the problem that helps children to make sure they have access to health care. he was such an amazing legislator. instead of walking away when he couldn't get the ideal bill passed, he would come back again and again and again to make incremental steps towards where we knew he needed to go. every one over the last couple days as you're talking about reaching across the aisle. he was a master of compromise without ever, ever, ever giving up his final ideal. he was an incredible master of getting things done. >> how disappointed was he with the way no child left behind ended up because of the lack of appropriations and what states -- i think he would say correctly, complained about which were unfunded mandates? >> absolutely. the two things he would be proudest today from no child

left behind is its concentration on the importance of a quality teacher for every student and the idea that all information, all data has to be aggregated. it's not enough that a school district is high performing. it's only the right thing when a school district is high performing for every student. the disabled, the hispanics, african-americans, males, females. those are the two things he is most proud of, but obviously, as we moved away from re-authorization and into the appropriations cycle, he was de deeply disappointed schools had to choose between quality of school instructions and meeting the mandate of supplemental services and things like that. he really believed from the beginning that the administration, the bush administration would stand with him and fight for appropriations. he was deeply, deeply disappointed because he knew that that unfunded mandate was not coming close to living up