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♪ we're so honored that so many people have come out to pay tribute to my husband and i just wanted to thank them. that's really the only message here tonight. >> all right. welcome to "morning joe." you are looking at live pictures at the jfk presidential library in boston where the body of senator ted kennedy lies in repose against today. we're told some 20,000 people streamed through that room yesterday to pay final respects to senator ted kennedy. they'll do so again today before his body is flown to the u.s. state capitol and then buried at arlington national cemetery tomorrow. welcome to "morning joe."

joe will be with us in a moment. savannah guthrie joins us again today. >> it was so moving with the motorcade from hyannis to boston. people on the street applauding. >> absolutely. watch the family say good-bye, moving, as well. curt anderson joining us, as well. >> happy to be here. >> the author of "reset, how the crisis can restore our values." first a look at today's top stories. we have live pictures from the jfk presidential library and museum where a public viewing will continue this morning for the late massachusetts senator ted kennedy. already an estimated 20,000 people have paid their respects. they did that in a service that stretched long into the night. thousands more expected throughout the day before a private invitation-only memorial this evening at 7:00 p.m. president obama will deliver a eulogy tomorrow at the funeral

mass. before flying the casket to the capital. finally arriving at arlington national cemetery for a 5:30 p.m. burial. msnbc will have live coverage all day tomorrow including a special edition of "morning joe" at 8:00 eastern time. this is a gut-wrenching horrible story, a 29-year-old california woman back with her mother nearly two decades after being kidnapped by a registered sex offender. she was snatched walking to school getting on the bus. horrifically as her stepfather watched. officials say jaycee lee dugard kept in complete isolation and forced to have two children by the captor phillip garrido. police questioned and later arrested garrido an his wife after being spotted with those two young girls. meanwhile, the white house

is deflected criticism over president obama's plans for a few more days out of the office. on the heels of the west coast trip and vacation in martha's vineyard, the president will head to camp david for most of next week. >> i think that when i said that president wanted you to take long walks on the beach and relax and enjoy yourself, and that there would be no news, maybe it was wishful thinking. the president when he ran for this office knew there would be no days where he was completely down. >> according to newly-released memos, the cia used an interrogation tactics against the detainees after a year after the bush administration abandoned the harshest methods showing a prisoner was chained to a wall and kept awake for six straight days apparently with the approval of government lawyers. crews are fighting wildfires on several fronts this morning. forcing 2,000 people to

evacuate. so far, it is not clear if any homes have been damaged. hundreds of other homes evacuated north of l.a. as another fire gained momentum there. south carolina governor mark sanford is taking the offense against a vocal critic. yesterday, sanford blasted state senator david thomas who's investigating the governor's travel records after admitting to leaving the united states to visit his mistress in argentina. >> some of the media accounts is pure politics. and, you know, if you look at sort of where people are coming from, some people think it's in their best interest to drum up some of what's been going on to help them climb to the next ladder in politics. it fits more in that notion of an investigation in search of -- in an agenda opposed to simply the truth. all right. let's get very latest on tropical storm danny, a storm

that was called, quote, pathetic. called a storm pathetic, bill. >> almost daring it. >> would you like to take it back? >> from boston, bill? >> the ultimate jinx. pathetic, not a big story and of course i'll be here all weekend long. >> never taunt a tropical storm. >> never, i know. this storm does not look goodment it looks, you know, it's -- barely even a storm. for the most part, the only significance to have is some minor waves for anyone well off the coast. the rain threat we see in the northeast over the next couple of days isn't going to be from danny. it's going to be from the storm system coming up from the southeast so it's wet out there today. a lot of people need their umbrellas but not from danny. the timing of it, the closest danny will get to, say, cape cod and nantucket is saturday evening and the best chance of gusty winds at worst. not expecting a big deal.

as far as the other areas dealing with today, we have a lot of rain out there this morning. wilmington, delaware. some through the philadelphia-trenton area. new york city, the heavy rain into your area. another hour or two. so on and off downpours the story throughout your friday and unfortunately that will last into your saturday. so wet weather, new york southwa southward. dry today in boston. tomorrow, unfortunately, we have the big funeral, a lot of wet weather in boston on saturday. the rest of the forecast today, chicago cool, only 67 degrees. like a fall day. atlanta, 79 with some rain for you today. contrast that, willie showing you the picturesw the fires out west in l.a. today is 100 degrees. the firefighters will have their work cut out for them. a quick peek at the saturday forecast. wet from new york to boston and hot in the west but good news. a pathetic storm is better than

a big, bully storm. >> that's a good point. quote, it's not even really a storm." talking trash with people. >> exactly. >> thanks so much. we are talking a lot this morning to curt anderson with us for the next hour or so. also coming up, david gregory joins us and ted sorensen, the famed special counselor to president kennedy will be here. "the washington post" columnist eugene robinson. peggy noonan, she writes about senator kennedy's bond with president reagan and a look at the top stories of the morning. keep it on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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controversy a swirling around the planned visit to the united states because what happens when a libbian dictator moves to new jersey? ♪ there's no place like home ♪ with your family around you you're never alone ♪ ♪ when you know that you're loved you don't need to roam ♪ ♪ because there's no place like home ♪ ♪ there's no place like home >> you know, that's great. >> great to see jerry springer back. >> one of the best in the business. >> he is. >> going to be a good show. >> yeah, wow. >> i tell you what. i was, of course, coming in as i always come in at 4:00.

>> yeah. >> after i work at the orphanage downtown and i'm walking through and -- >> i know where you're going. >> these throngs. millions of kids outside. i immediately said, thank god we got curt anderson here because, seriously, he is the one -- remember willie, last year, when he predicted that miley cyrus and her explosion would lead to the election of barack obama. he said it was a moment of hope t. beatles on ed sullivan. hannah montana. you predicted. >> thanks for give manager e the credit. >> you predicted. >> there you go. >> actually, you are hopeful. >> i am. >> i get so tired of people being negative on the left and on the right and everybody saying this is the end of america as we know it. you're -- i home hopeful. you're hopeful, too. you think this reset, this fundamental reset is great for america in the long run. >> i do.

it's happened before many times and taking a bit of the long view, not discounting the real pain that people feel when the moments happen and they're out of jobs but, yeah. i think it is time after a very long run in one direction to sort of sit down and get a little sane. >> a year ago i was complaining every day about the fact that we as a country had a 0% savings rate. or germany. germany had a 10% savings rate. did they -- while i was -- >> not yet. >> still wasn't. >> yeah. >> all right. i was hoping it would have kateri katerina vitt on our side. we're up to like 7%. we are healing ourselves. like you said, a lot of people in pain but in the long run may be a great, fundamental reset for america. >> the idea that you just can't have it all for nothing, that there is finally no such thing as a free lunch is a good thing

to be whacked around. >> what's miley cyrus. >> and michael steele would heal the republican party. >> there i got it a little wrong. >> no, no. willie, i haven't heard this. you tell me that this is important. >> he did it with a wildly crazy network called npr. serious stuff. >> right-wing nuts. >> michael steele on npr discussing health insurance, should it public or private? he got into it a little bit with the npr host. listen.

>> wonderful little dance, joe. >> throwing facts around right there. >> how dare you? >> curt andersen? i guess he thought he was talking to rush limbaugh or something. what? the government? no, they got to be out of it. as though he had base -- base-itis or something. >> i don't know. i don't know. lil we, what do you think? >> i think -- i think we should go to politico? >> isn't that something, though? he did. he gets in a lot of trouble. >> well, you know. he is kind of a shoots from the hip a little bit.

>> he does. >> by the way he operates and sometimes that gets him in a little bit of trouble i guess you can say. >> maybe behind the scenes and starts the raise money and organizing and things such as this. >> if your interview. >> stop being interviewed. unless on this show. >> always welcome here. >> so who do we have got politico? >> patrick flavin. let's talk about the politics. but the politics of the passing of the ted kennedy, you eve heard whispers already, some democrats about the health care debate saying let's win this one for teddy. they have to be careful with that, though, don't they? >> they do. for two reasons, for democrats the name of kennedy is golden and cherished but the name kennedy means liberal and not necessarily in a way that they like. there's been a lot of talk of renaming the bill the kennedy health care bill or something of that title. but the problem is that that

could scare a lot of the people off in the right and the middle. they have to be concerned about that. there's also a little bit of concern about this kennedy memorial service which is coming up. my colleague ben smith did a round-up of commentary saying whether or not this is going to be a well stone moment. what they mean is the late senator paul wellstone, it was viewed as a campaign rally, political points. some people in the crowd were rowdy. democrats thought it was a great way to remember the late senator but a lot of people on the right thought it was in bad taste and this memorial service for ted kennedy is obviously going to have a lot of big wigs and i think if it does turn into a campaign rally, that's not necessarily playing well in the press so i think that democrats have to be careful act how to proceed on this issue going forward. >> that wellstone funeral was gross. >> it was vulgar. >> it was gross. >> curt andersen, i sat there,

of course, as a republican, but i just kept saying, okay, even if i were a liberal, this seems to be in such bad taste. i don't suspect that's going to happen with the kennedy memorial. >> it will not. it will be as grave and dignified as all of the kennedy funerals we have seen have been. absolutely. i mean, there will be the references to climb higher and push on and these sort of motherhood an apple pie sorts of references of things ted kennedy has done. this is not a problem. >> and i agree. you have to be care wfl the kennedy name. while we revere him personally here, and i like him very much, it's not just the very conservative people in town hall meetings looking at the name with suspicion. john mccain's campaign was hurt in 2008 because he was attached on the immigration reform to ted kennedy. that's a name even though he

worked with kennedy and liked kennedy, that is a name he had trouble shaking. not just with conservatives. >> i also think that you're right that the kennedy service will not be that way for two reasons. one, i think conservatives would like for a wellstone moment to capitalize on that. also wellstone's was in an arena and often times lend itself to a bit more chaos than in kennedy's situation, as well. >> selling cotton candy and they had the streamers. it was justin appropriate all the way around. >> it was. >> it was also in the wellstone case, a shocking moment. he was taken young, an accident. i think people were dealing with the sense of kind of disarray. >> you know, people didn't know wellstone that well. he was a maverick. he is a guy that came in and you had to respect the guy regardless of the ideology because he was such a maverick that -- >> he did wacky things. >> there are not the personal

connections like there are with kennedy. >> hey, patrick. a kind of strange story that details are sketchy. some guy running for governor in idaho said something about barack obama. tell us the story. >> yeah. rex ramo. not a comic super hero but sort of a fringe, right wing guy in idaho. he was at an annual -- not an annual but one of the regular wolf hunts with a buy a wolf tag for 11 bucks and hunt some wolf and someone in the crowd said, what about obama? and rex said, an obama tag, i think we'd support that. >> the implication that he would support shooting the president, that is the controversy? >> absolutely. he said i was being sarcastic. i don't think there's a reason to apologize. i think it was probably an inappropriate comment. and the thing is that he is not a serious player in idaho but this is going to play very highly online. on cable news. and it's just not the kind of thing that i think the

republican party needs especially after some of these crazy scenes seen out of the town halls. it will dominate the coverage even though he's not a major player. >> you said probably inappropriate. let me help out you out there. it was extraordinarily inappropriate. i think i read that a congresswoman said that republicans over the past couple of days needed to search for the great white hope. did you see that, patrick? >> yeah. she apologized and what is interesting is rex said i don't think i need to apologize and that's sort of a scary statement that if the landscape at least in idaho or where he's from is such that he can say i don't think i need to apologize, and that's okay, there's no ramifications, that's worrisome. >> yeah, exactly. if he doesn't think he needs to apologize he has serious, serious problems, more than being naborn with the name rex

ramo. >> thanks so much. >> always goes back to -- >> where are we going with is that? >> exactly. >> patrick, appreciate it. coming up, the new republic's michael crowley will be here with us. >> we won't get through this with savannah guthrie. not conserving the words a bit more. >> seriously. >> thank you. i'm very rude. you know what? can i do the tease? >> yeah. go ahead. >> pick your spots. >> i know, i know. i have a lot of baskets. they don't always land. >> all right. >> read this one. >> my big moment to shine. >> okay. and a little later, cnn's andrea mitchell live from the presidential library in boston and sam tanenhaus. we will be right back on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. one thing president obama still needs is a -- john kerry

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welcome back to "morning

joe." live, the pictures of the white house in washington, d.c. it is just before 6:30 on the east coast and time for a look at some of today's top stories. live pictures from boston right now. less than two hours from this moment, the second day of a public viewing will begin for the late massachusetts senator ted kennedy. a private memorial will take place this evening before tomorrow's funeral and burial at arlington national cemetery. msnbc will have live coverage all day tomorrow including a special edition of "morning joe" beginning at 8:00 eastern time. that's tomorrow morning. federal safety officials meanwhile calling for new flight rules in the crowded skies over manhattan. a lot of people have been asking for this. it follows the deadly collision between the small plane and a sightseeing helicopter. the officials want the faa to impose new guidelines requiring the aircraft to fly at separate altitudes. >> did you hear what those guys were talking about? >> the control tower? >> the control tower. bar bbecuing cats.

they can put that in the rules, not to talk about -- >> here. you guys are always talking about cats. >> let alone -- >> we are not guiding people up and down the hudson at 2,000. tomorrow marks the four-year anniversary if you can believe it of hurricane katrina making landfall on the gulf coast. there are several memorial events planned over the week, in new orleans, obviously. that city, of course, never fully recovered from katrina. the morning papers "the boston globe" thousands line the procession route to hail kennedy. "washington post," farewell to a favorite son. thousands view the last ride from hyannis. the kofb of senator kennedy carried away by an honor guard at the kennedy compound and the headline on the right, abuse issue puts the cia at odds. they failed to sway holder.

the kennedy funeral, a final farewell. "l.a. times" iran's turmoil but -- iran is in turmoil but time for the u.s. -- you know what? if you want to see what the headline says, go online and read the damn website. that's it. the new -- the new republic less michael crowley. there's a reason we don't have teleprompters for three hours. we'll take a look at mika's must read opinion papers. the great taste of splenda® no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet!

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okay. hey, with us now, senior editor of "the republic," michael crowley. >> we'll bring you in a debate. >> can't wait.

>> embarrass kurt andersen. with a book that will change the world. that statement, the great white hope that the congresswoman made and you said and others were saying it's not as bad as the guy in idaho talking about hunting the president but historical perspective. >> jack johnson earlier in the 20th century was a white boxer whom everyone wanted to be the great white hope and replayed in an ali period, of course, but i think in the 40 years since there are many times when great white hope is used just to say the next big thing. the band that could take over. the ceo who can -- without any racial content. >> i read it in "rolling stone" reviews all the time with the next big band. >> who knows what this woman was in his heart but i would cut her a maybe a little slack. >> your wife disagrees, though, doesn't she? you were the republican last night in your household. >> in our role playing, i was

the republican. >> that had to hurt. >> well, you know, it often happens. >> her name is lynn jenkins, from kansas. she said she was not talking about barack obama. do we have it, chris? let's listen to it >> all right. so she looks like a boxing fan. remember what ali called -- the great white dope. he was pummeled for 15 rounds. he just played with him.

all right. hey, so what's going on, michael? >> one thing about the clip. i take it as a figure of speech but i think it's interesting the way that the politics of the republican party, the atmospherics around the white men. any time trying to drive an issue home, it's joe the plumber, sergeant crowley. the firefighters denied promotions by sotomayor so i in this case i give her a benefit of the doubt. you seem to see the party is pushing forward the iconic blue collar, working class, white, male, heroes and i think there's been a kind of white hope strategy on the part of the republican party. >> and this comes from perhaps one of the whirtest people i know. michael crowley, you, looking very irish and white. >> no relation to the hard working police sergeant in cambridge in case you were wondering. >> i want to read you -- i want to read what david brooks with "the new york times" said this morning in his op-ed.

it is the great gradualist. these things we want great

leaders. we do want people to put up on mt. rushmore and a lot of times our politicians overreach. our extremes are angered by the compromise. but kennedy did know how to make the deal. >> kennedy was good at two things at once. you have guys who are greatoators and i think if paul wellstone, not a terribly effective senator we good at articulating core principles and being the voice of conscious for the party and then compromisers who don't really talk about the big picture and they're boring guys but kennedy did two things very well. he could articulate and enunciate the grand, liberal principles aspiring to americans across the spectrum but down to the nitty-gritty, he wasn't above doing the hard legislating, cutting deals, seeing that half a loaf is better than full loaf and without seeing the sight of the big picture and i think in washington you have to be able to do both,en spire people on the outside and realize and

recognize what you can get done on the inside. >> what's remarkable of the success through the years is may have come of age in camelot but did his best work in the age of reagan and cut a lot of deals that people on the left may not have loved. you know, kurt, i want to tell you and ask you, you have written this book "reset." the chaos of the past year brought on by the decisions we have made as a society over the past 25 years. and also, bluntly what's happened in washington over the last nine months. made me reassess presidents. the type of presidents we want. obama excites us. jfk excites us. eisenhower, bores us. but the more i think about the chaos that's been circling around this country, over the last nine months, my eyes for the first time as a guy that's followed presidential history for a year has turned to

eisenhower. i'm asking myself, how did he do it? eight years, peace, prosperity keeping his head down, staying out of the papers. i mean, that maybe is a model of leadership going -- building on what david brooks said this morning that maybe we should m value more. >> i think you are right and you had an upswell of the civil rights. of course, you had the founding moments of the american civil rights movement in the '50s that didn't seem to discombobulate the eisenhower administration. you say obama, we want him to excite us. that was the story of his election. as president, i'm not sure you couldn't say barack obama isn't the democratic eisenhower. and that his virtue, if you want to call it that, is the no drama part. the part of almost boring,

doesn't get too excited, doesn't swing hard to the left and yell at his 0 popponents. i think there's a calmness that he brings to his presidency so far that is a little eisenhoweresque. >> personally, yes. you're obviously see how the white house operates day in and day out. when you go over there, there is relaxed mindset around there. >> well, they work hard. that's for sure. >> they do. but i mean -- people like valerie jarrett, david axelrod. they won't scream. we won't talk about rahm. >> that's true. there's a no drama epic and it's funny. you hear politicians -- i was reading a book about reagan and the evil empire and things said about russia eni thought it is -- you could not imagine that kind of rhetoric coming from obama. he's such a measured, even guy

and a difference in temperament. not casting a difference about it. it extends throughout the white house. in the white house, there's drama, competition and certainly and plenty of that. >> their attitude to the news cycle we saw in the campaign is almost shame-inistic. we're seeing through time. david axelrod always stalked this way. that said, i think that people were expecting obama's campaign core followers to be out showing a little bit more strength and enthusiasm. for instance, now, they're handy in the town hall meetings and that obama mania faded a little bit. i think that there's a great virtue in the coolness and evenness and lost some of that, you know, charge and energy which i think would be helping them with the legislative agenda now. >> i think there's an epic they have. i think as humans all of us we

look at the past and it's easy to say, this happened in the past so that's the principle for the future and there is this belief inside the white house and you hear it from the highest levels to the lowest levels, we have been here before. remember they counted us out in the campaign. the campaign is guiding principle and experience and they really believe what happened in the campaign will be repeated. you will count us out but we'll come become and how they look at the health care reform bill. >> that is so dangerous. for white houses, every white house does it. i remember george h.w. bush telling an adviser in the '92 campaign trying to say you are in trouble. he said if you're so gd smart, why aren't you president of the united states? ted concern sen, i was watching that great kennedy documentary they rerun on pbs on 13. ted sorensen who's going to be with us said that the kennedys early on felt bullet-proof. they had the positive proof and he said we didn't think we could

make any mistakes. we believed the stories saying we were working so hard and dangerous and happens to every white house and it seems to be happening to this white house. they are now at 50%. and i guess the qupolls are goi down and there's a sense of arrogance in some quarters in the white house like the bush white house. we won. we're smarter. why do we have to correct the course. that's dangerous. do you agree, michael? >> it is the sense of however bad things got in the campaign, we fought through it and see around the corners this people in washington don't see. the press is caught up in the blogs and daily chitchat. we have a grand plan. and their recent experience is it works out and obama can do anything. and you have to say up until now you give him the benefit of the doubt but the danger is to think you have kind of cracked the code and that you have learned to suspend the ordinary rules of

politics and gravity. anyone who thinks that winds up realizing they're mistaken. that said, it is august. congress is scattered. i think the town halls make things look worse than they really are and i think there's reason to think they can get momentum. maybe possibly in the wake of senator kennedy's death there's renewal of purpose and mission on the part of the left. >> when you hear obama say things like, oh, the public option, that's just one sliver of the whole thing, it looks to me like he is not just sort of sticking to the plan and not changing it no matter what. that looks like tacking with the wind. if anything, yeah. >> he needs to tack with the wind politically because he's exhausted a lot of goodwill. not among the left but among the center. people who voted for him that are suspicious of government that were -- that voted not so much for barack obama as they

did against george bush and dick cheney. the excesses of the eight years. i think he needs to tack. i think this is a white house that's going to be kept to a much tighter -- much tighter reins as far as spending programs moving forward. tacking like that, i think right now, is necessary. so we'll see. >> the economy comes back. watch out. >> yeah. obviously, right. the economy comes back, that changes everything. michael, stay with us. >> all right. >> you are the great white hope. coming up next, we have david gregory and andrea mitchell and savannah guthrie with us. for how -- is this the last day? >> it is. i'm going to get emotional. >> michael vick returns to the huddle. sports is next and willie's news you can't use. starring one crazy host when we return.

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kind of a big deal. anyway, ford and lincoln mercury have you covered... with showrooms full of fuel-efficient cars, trucks, suvs, crossovers, and hybrids. how's that for going green? now, get 0% financing plus up to $1,500 cash back on most ford, lincoln and mercury vehicles. go to ford.com, or visit your ford or lincoln mercury dealer. president obama enjoiping himself on his vacation right now in martha vineyard. so far, this is what the news said, played tennis, golf, he's gone swimming. now it's rumored to play a game of bocci ball. it's true.

yeah. in other words, america is still waiting for its first black president. time for some sports. michael vick last played in a nfl game on new year's eve 2006. last night back on the field for the first time since then, we have hee lights. >> thank you and good morning. it's been over two and a half years since vick played in a nfl game. last night he made the debut with the eagles. second play from scrimmage and shovelled a play for a short gain. time off didn't affect his arm. one and only pass down field, a bullet to hank basket for a first down. vick was in for six plays. a perfect 4 for 4 through the air for 19 yards. eagles won and maybe more importantly no protest of animal rights groups in philly. college football note, matt barkley named the starting quarterback at usc. the first ever true freshman to

start for southern cal. baseball and other hair raising game between the pirates and phils. start with defense. morton, a come backer through the middle. rollins made the start and why he's a gold glover. pirates down 1-8 in the eighth. for the second time in three gamest pirates beat the champs 3-2. out of boston, the cost of "rescue me" and pulled the old crisscross throw. no joking around here, though. carlos quinn tin took a pitch off the bill of the helmet. a towering blast to left in the third. white sox win. red sox lead it in the a.l. wild card. in the angels/a's. a base hit. smothered it and tossed to abar to get suzuke at first.

won't see a better play than that. here's a play from the yankee/ranger game. derek jeet we areter with a sho. the play of the game by davis. rangers won it 7-2. california and georgia in the little league semi finals. a great grab in center. but it got better. marcus using the melon doubled up the runner at first. that's a tremendous heads up play by the youngster to end the inning. california rallied to beat georgia 11-10. they'll play texas tomorrow in the championship. that's it for me. you guys have a great weekend. >> thanks, fred. always a kid in the little league world series that looks like he's 35. you see that first baseman? the news you can't use with mika brzezinski. she called in this morning and it was weird. we'll play it for you when we come back. ♪

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call or click today. oh, yes. is it time? >> wow. a voice from the northeast harbor. >> i understand that's now officially a ringtone on our website. >> you can get it at msnbc.com. mika's inappropriate moaning at 6:55 every morning. we call somebodyali at 5:40. we woke mika up and we talked about this on the show. she likes to sample from the

cabinet. pharmaceuticals from the night before and sometimes they get in the way of clear thinking, judgment and mental editing. maybe things you shouldn't say on tv. here's part of my interview with mika. >> bruce fernalt lobster fame on cranberry island, he took me out and taught me how lobsters have -- and reproduce and the female sheds her shell and it is all very dramatic. you would think they don't really have sex. let me tell you. >> really? >> they have sex. >> graphic, huh? >> oh hi god. >> she went on and on about lobsters. >> here's a very -- i e-mailed her. >> yeah. >> said, we're going to play your interview on news you can't use. her response -- huh? what interview? >> she means it, too. >> wow. >> she went through some of the things she was saying. you're not dreaming right now. you are on tv.

she said, oh, i know. here's a little bit more. i was getting ready to say good-bye and kind of take the rope away from her and stopped hanging herself a little bit and she said, wait a minute. there's just one more thing. here's mika. >> do you want to know what i'm wearing right now? >> sure. since you offered. >> no. i'm wearing my pat buchanan t-shirt snl. >> are you? oh my gosh. okay. back to bed for you, mommy. we love you and see you on monday. >> bye. >> bye, mika. >> you guys are cruel. >> during that interview, mika was wearing just a pat buchanan t-shirt. >> no, no. just enough. >> that was a national tv interview with a pat buchanan t-shirt and nothing else talking about lobster sex. >> good of you to replay it. >> i'm a journalist. i don't take sides. >> if you call me, going straight to voicemail. >> she had unkind words for you in that pretty big chair right

there. >> i don't believe it. >> i hear mika went after savannah, as well? >> ruthless. when i play them -- >> i don't believe it. >> coming up on the top of the hour, we'll show you the ancient indian tradition of violent pillow fighting. two guys sitting on a tree stump beating the living crap out of each other with pillow cases full of hard objects. the rules are pretty simple. the guy who passes out and falls off first loses. by the way, look at the crowd. 50,000 people there watching. like the opening ceremonies of the olympics. there you have it. that's india for you. america's strangest or the world's strangest country. they say and this is a sad angle. the sport is dying out in india. this is -- as young people move on to more conventional games like volleyball and soccer. the elders, tossing babies. right. elders in the community trying to keep it alive, the wonderful

tradition. >> keep hope alive. >> what about tickle fighting? >> it's an nerf opportunity. >> it is. good thinking. >> so who's ahead in the fight? the strangest -- >> india is. i don't consider it a fight. used to be japan. they make useless robots. dances with you. india with things like that and the baby tossing, far, far ahead at this point. >> no doubt about it. thank you, willie. i'm sure mika's going to -- let's just say i don't want to be here monday when mika gets in. going to be a little chill. >> i don't think so. >> yeah? >> i think she likes open, openness, honesty. >> it's her paris hilton family. >> you should do a pillow fight on the set, willie and mika. >> beat the hell out of each other. >> we have another e-mail, chris has, about savannah.

praising the academic achievements? >> no. >> oh. mean? don't read it. >> what is it? >> i'm very thin skinned. >> not savannah's thought she doesn't jump in so much but you're opposed figures. to work with you must be awe inspiring. how can she get any words out of her mouth when you're sitting right next to her. >> why are you so great? >> if you don't think that's not a question i grapple with every day -- >> what is it like to be so hilarious, willie. >> oh, stop. am i? >> all right. >> enough, enough! all right. >> kurt and michael are great, too. >> she is not married yet. with lines like that. >> i know, i know. >> this is not a speaking part for me, right? i'm just supposed to sit here. >> just smile. >> okay. i can do that. >> you can keep the camera on her if you want to while i talk an welcome everybody. welcome to "morning joe."

mika's not with us. she doesn't appear to be with anybody right now. we are not sure where she is but a great crew here. michael crowley and kurt andersen and in a nonspeaking role savannah guthrie is here. kurt andersen, the author of "reset." and we've been talking about how this country is undergoing a fundamental reset right now. you say that a's a good thing. >> i do. i wish we would see it more in the daily news out of washington where the professional politicians like the rabble-rousers on certain channels revert to the status quo and imagining that nothing changed and no need to change their talking points. but i think out in the country and in general i think there actually is a sense of rethinking and reinventing.

i mean, you mentioned earlier the savings rate gone from zero to 7% in a matter of months. that is one good metric of how people can say, whoa, we got to change. we can't just keep living like there's no tomorrow and that's just one small think. yeah, i think we are at the end of a long era of behaving one way. and imagining that no regulation is the best regulation. and there's no real personal responsibility for buying a house to afford or not putting everything on the credit cards. i think people are waking up. >> how fascinating. i would guess ten, 20 years looking at dates and grew up the fathers talking about 1971. of course, the date that's hung over us throughout this decade the most is the decade coming the an end of, obviously, september 11th. but i suspect the date to transform the country more in the long run, september 15th. >> i couldn't agree more.

i think the two september dates -- >> by the way, september 15th, when lehman collapsed and the world -- past 25 years changed. >> yeah. i think -- those two moments are really defining of this decade at this historic pivot point. and, you know, i sometimes say it's as though 9/11 was the alarm going off and we hit snooze and then the second one is when you get up and wake up and get alert. >> kurt, where do you think people are on the government right now? you hear the two sides in the health care debate. we heard michael steele talking about it. are people in a place more comfortable now with the government intervening because of what they have seen with the financial markets and things like that? >> i think we are at a point. looking at history, looking at the cycles of history, i would be surprised if we don't for a few years have an era where there is more acceptance of government intervention. you know, the intervention on

the last nine months you can argue over the specifics but to me it saved our bacon probably, and we go back and forth as a country from thinking, get out of our faces, let us do it ourselves, let's make a lot of money. let's spend, don't regulate and then we veer back and this is a veer back moment for better or worse. >> we are as david brooks suggests this morning, michael crowley, the children of madison. of divided government. of checks and balances and if we veer to the left and have the government more involved in our lives, chances are good in the future we'll veer to the right and keep going back and forth. there is always that pendulum. always a balance and counter balance. isn't there? >> definitely a pendulum effect but i think what's interesting to watch is what the next many months, several years says about the structure of the political system. there's popular support for more regulation, for instance, for

clamping down on wall street but the financial, political power of the people who need to be regulated and who obama talking about regulating is still very intense and concentrated in washington in a way that i think the average american doesn't fully appreciate and may feel, well, i went to see them on wall street regulated more so we don't have it happen again but they're not passionate about it. the lobbyists on capitol hill right now with a lot of money to bring to bear, those are the guys shaping the debate and it's going to be hard to affect real change. that's the distance between the public and the insiders. >> and how fascinating that the guys that got us here on september 15th of last year are the guy that is are still running wall street and washington. it's a very small group. the people that are supposedly taking over and own wall street, a new wall street, are the same -- i mean, it is straight out of the last line of "who's

next." meet the new boss. same as the old boss. >> it fakes a thief. and part of the argument is, well, these are the guys that know how to unravel the credit default problems of the ig. they have to stay at aig otherwise there's no way out. >> the post had an article about the too big to fail firms are bigger and more interconnected and everyone agrees that was the problem. that's how why we had a $700 billion bailout. it is not better but worse. >> i think i saw it on huffington post headline, city, bank of america and wells forgo own one out of three deposit dollars in america. that's -- >> that's "the economist." the return of the corporate giant. >> we need to reset. that's what we need to do. >> we'll continue this conversation in just a second. a quick break for news here. we have live pictures for you right now from the jfk presidential library and museum

where a public viewing will begin in about an hour for the late massachusetts senator ted kennedy. already an estimated 20,000 people have paid their respects. they did that in a service that stretched long into the night. thousands more are expected throughout the day. before a private invitation-only memorial this evening at 7:00 p.m. president obama will deliver a eulogy at tomorrow's funeral mass before the casket is flown to washington to be driven past the united states capitol building and the motorcade will arrive at the arlington national cemetery for a 5:30 p.m. burial. msnbc will have live coverage tomorrow including a special edition of "morning joe" beginning at 8:00 eastern time on msnbc. a 29-year-old california woman is back with her mother this morning. nearly two decades after she was kidnapped by a registered sex offend. she was swiped off the street walking to her school bus in 1991. officials say jaycee lee dugard

kept in complete isolation in a backyard enclosure and forced to have two children by her captor, phillip garrido. he was arrested and his wife after spotting him with the two young girls he fared with the captive young woman. the white house is deflected criticism over president obama's plans for a few more days out of the office. on the heels of his west coast trip and vacation in martha's vineyard, the president will head to david camp for most of next week. >> i think that when i say that the president wanted you guys to take long walks on the beach and relax and just enjoy yourselves and there would be no news maybe was a little bit of wishful thinking. the president when he ran for this office knew that there would be no days where he was completely down. and according to newly-released memos, the cia continued to use extreme

interrogation tactics a year after the bush administration abandoned the harshest methods. a prisoner was chained to a wall and kept awake six days with apparently the approval of government lawyers. crews are burning wildfires on several fronts. one forced at least 2,000 people to evacuate. not clear if any homes have been damaged in that fire. meanwhile, there are more evacuationins north of l.a. mack sanford is taking the offensive yet again against one of the most vocal critics. thursday sanford blasted state senator david thomas who's investigating the travel records of the governor after admitting to leaving the state with his mistress in argentina. >> these accounteds are pure politics. and, you know, if you look at sort of where people are coming

from, some people think it's in their best interest to drum up some of what's been going on to help them climb to the next ladder in politics. it fits more in the notion of an investigation in search of -- in an agenda as opposed to simply the truth. >> joe, your friend, governor sanford, having a press conference almost literally every day. will he survive this thing? >> does he look worried to you? >> no. >> seriously? i mean, this -- he went to the a.p. after being quiet with it probably been better. just talked. he says what he wants to say. he's got -- you know? he's got an ace in the pocket. >> he's out there every day. >> it is his lieutenant govern nor. >> where was he? it was like a -- >> he doesn't care. he's fine. >> that is the story, right? the guy that wants to replace him is vying for the job is apparently much worse we're told from people inside the state than the alternative it is governor sanford. >> i think so.

i think so. >> all right. >> yeah. i think he is going to survive. >> wow. amazing, amazing. looks like tropical storm danny might impact everybody's week. let's go upstairs to bill who thinks that danny is pathetic, what he said earlier and has no respect for the storm whatsoever. >> you never want to give up but i already did. as far as danny, this is a new prediction from the hurricane center this morning. weakened overnight. it was up to 60 mile-per-hour winds and now at 40. barely a tropical storm. just in case it does something that surprise us, watches are issued for north carolina coast. saturday evening at cape cod shouldn't be that bad. it is going to be wet. already raining from new york southward down outside of philadelphia. we have many areas needing the umbrella today. travel spots possibly. d.c. and chicago, a gloomy day.

67 today in chicago. you need a jacket. 79 in atlanta. very unusual for this time of year, also. everywhere out west is hot and the fires outside of l.a. really bad. another day in the 100s today. tomorrow in the upper 90s. won't be better. >> that map up, looks like rain up and down the i-95 corridor. >> correct, sir. >> if you're traveling this weekend, take the train, i guess. >> especially from boston to new york. those are the areas of great -- >> clear at all? sunshine? >> sunday should be much nicer in the east. can i finish up by warning savannah? you're very professional. run from the darkness. too late for me personally. just run. >> i was going to run but this weather forecast, i can't get out of new york. >> you will get out. >> thanks, bill. >> why don't you just tell her i'm more machine than man now? >> that's right. >> every guy did grow up -- you guys all know the "star wars" references, right?

>> he is your father, savannah. >> i like them, too. there is nothing to see her. these are not the droids you're looking for. thank you. >> very good. so be it. >> fan letters are on their way. >> all right. very excited geeks. >> right? >> it was like a career-ruining move for me. i knew it would happen. >> you will be asked to speak at the next "star wars" convention. keynote, exactly. >> i can't believe it took until friday for this happen. >> signing the plastic lightsabers. we'll have moderator david gregory and ted concern sen. we've got "the wall street journal's" peggy noonan. up next, andrea mitchell from the kennedy presidential library where thousands are gathering to say a final farewell to senator kennedy. of course, kurt andersen with us

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for generation, he was a surrogate grandchildren for 29 grandchildren. and i don't know, probably 60 or 80 great grandchildren so it's a great thing for all of us, it is. >> bobby jr. yesterday. thousands showed up yesterday to pay respects to the kennedy family. thousands more expected today. you are looking at a live shot from the jfk librarian and memorial why nbc news chief warrant officer andrea mitchell joins us now. andrea, get us up to date. >> reporter: it is the most extraordinary thing, joe, because we were here very late last night. you saw some of the members of the family. the family came out from the oldest to the youngest and walked the line thanking them.

you have these six and seven, 8-year-olds, the grandchildren, the great nieces and great nephews and a reminder that teddy kennedy for all of his being a public man was a patriarch and through great tragedy became way too young the patriarch of the family. 29 nieces and nephews in the original, second generation and all of the young children. blazers and shirt tails hanging out walking the line and thanking them. and one of the kennedy nephews said to me later, he said that he sent his children along with the others to go out and they came back in crying because they hadn't realized that uncle teddy was just anybody other than uncle teddy. that he was this public person and seeing the emotion here and i'm telling you it went until 2:00 this morning and they're back today. >> unbelievable. what will happen today, andrea? >> reporter: well, i'm in the

flight path for logan as you can hear. there's a reason the family and senator kennedy wanted this to be focused here in massachusetts. this is the place that he served for 47 years. he was very conscious of the fact that the voters had returned him the office for all of those decades. and so, it is here and it is here that the motorcade went past all the sentimental landmarks and today the boston funeral service with president obama giving the eulogy. and then for the first time the flight to washington. there will be a slow drive past the capitol. the flag draping his casket here flown over the capitol on the last day that the senate was in session and driven past the capitol again on the way to arlington and then buried near his brothers, the last time i was there for a service business the burial of jackie kennedy onassis.

we were here for the opening of the library. and now carolyn is the only one left. she was here last night walking out and saying thank you to people, you know, heart felt thanks. they were very, very touched by the outpouring. >> andrea, thanks for being with us. andrea mitchell. she has the 1:00 p.m. show, "andrea mitchell reports." kurt, what is your earliest kennedy memory? >> i remember actually as a kindergartener the election between the kennedys and giving in nebraska 80% of my classmates and i were nixon kindergarteners. and then i remember the assassination, of course, which divides me from all of you young people, i guess. >> it was my first memory of politics, really, kennedys, when bobby got shot in '68. i was 5 then but i always

remembered is i remember walking down stairs and seeing my grandmother who lived with us at the time very conservative, with georgia -- we didn't have a lot of kennedy fans in my family. but i just looked at my grandmom and had a sheer look of hor ron on her face and and as a 5-year-old it scared the hell out of me. having said, i grew up and grew up loving, reading about the kennedys and yesterday i read -- you ever read curt vonagis "the hyannis port story." ? >> yeah. >> just reading it made me nostalgic for the time that's long gone. an epic that ended this week. >> there's something about the interest in this, this ted kennedy's death that is kind of a quieter reliving of the

decades of more traumatic kennedy death. this was not traumatic and went out a very dignified fashion. >> with children and grandchildren at his side. when we come back, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. [ engine revving ] [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for le, we send you a check for the difference, automatically.

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a live picture of washington. of course, the home of savannah guthrie now and the e-mails keep flooding in. this on savannah guthrie's last day. savannah, we hardly knew ye. and our viewers felt the same way. chris? >> wait a minute. she is not married zblet she's smart, successful and cute as can be. i can't believe she's not taken. any chance she'll be single when i finish school in a few years? >> that's fourth grader yonny in the ozarks. >> dresses up like luke skywalker. >> now you have me. now moderator of nbc's "meet the press," david gregory. you are a big va vanna fan.

>> absolutely, absolutely. >> a lot to cover. let's talk first of all about the kennedy replacement. that obviously is a direction gnat story goes to in the coming days. >> and intrigue right now in massachusetts. the governor is trying to get the law changed as senator kennedy wanted an interim snoer to be named before the special election in late january, early february. there's pushback from republicans. the people i have been talking to say you have got democrats who have allegiances for whoever a successor might be in an election withhold be concerned about what a temporary replacement would do, how it would impact their, you know, picks' chances in a special election. this is worked right now. senator john kerry, senator reed among those lobbying to get it done. what's interesting is the people that i've talked indicate senator kennedy himself did not

indicate any names to governor patrick in terms of who to see in the temporary seat which is interesting and vicki has said, vicki kennedy said she is not interested in doing it even on a temporary basis. >> she's taken herself off the list. okay. let's show that list again. these are the three names right now flooded out there the most i guess. if you're in massachusetts, you can be a convicted felony and senator. i see bill delahunt's name there. my god. very frightening, david gregory. have you ever met bill delahunt? >> i have. >> i'm sorry. anyway, let's talk about health care reform. there's a big debate going bloggers going crazy. republicans saying that orrin hatch who said we would have had a bipartisan bill and lawrence o o'donnell said, that's ridiculous. ted kennedy was the most

partisan member of the united states senate. where's the truth there? >> well, i just don't think we know. i think one of the big questions is to what extent would he have compromised on the public option, the rage right now quite literally in the debate. he had the history and particularly on health care and breaking up the reform efforts and getting what he could at particular times. so here what's on the table in terms of insurance reform or pharmaceutical companies or individual mandates is things he fought for for decades that he could never get close to and part of the reform bill now to be seen as a huge accomplishment by senator kennedy even though he would want universal health care and a government plan. so we just don't know. from the white house's point of view, i can tell you that there are some who believe there's an emotional lift. through kennedy's death that helps to galvanize support for this and most are a little bit more cold eyed about it saying

that the divisions are pretty deep. at this point and because he's been on the sidelines throughout the effort here in congress, this time, that minds are not going to be changed just because of the sentimentality. we'll go back to where things were. >> hey, kurt, 1971, ted kennedy had a chance to get employer-mandated health care from richard nixon. he killed it. '93, '94, took an absolutist view. maybe the legacy of kennedy is learn from the past and democrats take what they can get this time? >> again, even what the republicans are willing to give them in terms of portability and no preexisting conditions disqualification, those are 25 years ago whoufb seen as tremendous reforms. whether or not they get the public option, we'll see. but, you know, i think what you see about -- what you say nixon in '71 would have given him what

looks like now the whole ball game, that's because it was at the end of this long, liberal era where nixon was the most liberal president of my lifetime. >> domestically, he was, right. >> domestically and now the other side of that so i think my personal belief, i don't think the ted kennedy death will have much impact politically on what health care reform comes out of washington. i do think that after the end of this summer madness that people will focus maybe in a more serious way in september and the town hall craziness won't be quite such the story that it was of july and august. >> maybe? >> i think that's right and important to remember the roadblock with health care largely right now has to do centrist senators. ben nelson, conrad not on board with the obama plan, those guys that are democrats and look at the states they come from, there's not well spring of

kennedy love that's going to be surging up where suddenly max bachus says, huh oh. those are the guys that obama has to get on board to get what he wants done. that's a separate problem. >> not only, david, does ted kennedy not have reach into states that -- nike nebraska, barack obama doesn't anymore either. look at the latest -- this is today's latest gallup tracking poll in about line with nbc's poll. the president, 50%. you take out the blue states, the heavily democratic states and you can imagine in some of the states where moderate to conservative democrats come from, the numbers are fairly low. so what strength does the president have as we go into the fall to pull a max bachus or others on his side? >> i think he's got some

diminishing strength as we have seen in the poll numbers and power to push something through. it depends on the focus. we have seen the last couple of weeks with the attention on the idea of a public option which is just not going anywhere unless it's revived as they get together and try to reconcile the bills if they have the bills so he's got a problem with the base right now. and this is a -- this goes back to kennedy. kennedy would not be accused of selling out the left compromising on this because, you know, what he stood for over the decades. president obama does not enjoy that level of support on the left at this point so he's got to get back to a point where we's talking about bringing down costs and other compromises and then go out there and really sell that piece of it because that's where the centrist democrats are feeling the heat. >> david gregory, what do you have coming up this weekend? >> an hour-long look at paying tribute to senator kennedy.

his unique relationship to "meet the press." the appearances over the years that you will see. also hearing from people who knew him so well. senator john kerry, kathleen kennedy townsend, bob shrum and others. >> thanks a lot. appreciate it. david gregory. sunday, "meet the press." coming up next here, peggy noonan. introducing the all new chevy equinox. with an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon. and up to 600 miles between fill ups. it's the most fuel efficient crossover on the highway. better than honda cr-v, toyota rav4 and even the ford escape hybrid.

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remembers him. in his joy. and it was a joy he knew how to communicate. he knew that life is rich with possibilities and he believed in opportunity, growth and action. and when he died, when that comet disappeared over the continent, a whole nation grieved and would not forget. >> that was president ronald reagan in 1985 invited by ted kennedy to speak at a fund-raiser for the jfk library. a speech that would forge a special bond between the two men. with us now, columnist for "the wall street journal" peggy noonan who helped write that speech and whose column today discusses the rape between the reagans and the kennedys and great honor to have adviser to president john kennedy ted sorensen. he also writes about ted kennedy in the latest issue of "time"

magazine. mr. sorensen, great to have you with us. peggy, always great to have you here. >> joe, my pleasure. >> give us your thoughts this morning about ted kennedy. >> oh my, my thoughts are still sad. he was a friend of mine for 56 years before you and peggy were around. and during those 56 years, we had some good times and some hard times together. but he was always ready with a cheery word. he was always determined to pick up the torch that had been impossible for his brothers to carry to the finish line. and he was doing that right up to the day of his death. >> and how ironic it has to be that the same ted kennedy, same teddy kennedy that was seen in

1961 and 62, even by his own brothers, as possibly not being prepared to be a united states senator at his young age leaves us now as one of the great senators of all time. one of the most successful senators of all time. >> there's no doubt about the fact that he was a better senator than his two older brothers were. he enjoyed the senate. they were impatient with its slow, deliberative process. but with that smile, that warmth, he was able to reach across the aisle and work with republicans on bipartisan legislation for the good of the country. >> how did ted kennedy through all the trials, through all the unimaginable pain, through all the tragedy, some self inflicted, how did he keep his spirit up? how did he remain a cheerful ted

kennedy that when i first got to congress i heard conservatives like trent lott and orrin hatch telling me, ted kennedy guy, he is a good man. he's somebody you can work with. you'll like him. >> i'm delighted to hear they were saying that in private. wasn't quite what they always said in public but nevertheless republicans on the senate floor have told me that when teddy got up to speak they gathered around to listen because they knew he'd done his homework and they knew he had one of the best staffs in the senate. >> he really did, peggy. that is another thing you heard from the very beginning when you got to washington, that ted kennedy staff was the best. >> yeah. it was a real farm team for the democratic party. it has been said. i think, also, part of ted's talent, the thing that helped him so much in the u.s. senate,

is that teddy came from long line of practical politicians. the kennedys were not dreamy about politics. they knew it was a matter of numbers, getting support, building coalitions so he brought that into the senate and kept him from being i suspect as a tack tirn blinded by ideology and the difference between what you want and what you can get right now. >> and david brooks writes this morning about the power of incrementalism in "the new york times" and how teddy kennedy understood that. everybody's talking about how great ted kennedy was as a legislator, the successes he had. not enough people are talking about the fact that while he got into the senate at the age of camelot -- >> yes. >> -- he ruled in the senate a lot of times in the minority in the age of reagan. he spent from 1981 to 2008 a

senator, a liberal lion, trying to pass legislation in the age of reagan. and yet, he succeeded. >> yeah. >> better than anybody. >> well, he succeeded in part because he was a lion who protected his roar. he wasn't out there every day prowling in the jungle. he picked his issues and his moments and he came forward in a strong way. sometimes very colorfully in speaking of health care, very passionately. sometimes i would say with a less benign impact. when he spoke, say, about robert bork. but when ted kennedy stood up and said this is what i think, people stopped and they listened. he was prepared. >> mr. sorensen, what have the kennedys meant to this country over the past 50 years? from that 1960 campaign until this week, what have the kennedy

sons meant to this country? >> first, let's make it clear that contrary to some of the extravagant talk in the media today, the kennedys are the first to say, there's no royalty in this country. there are no dynasties in this country. they were simply a family that was committed to making this a better country. they were -- they believed in public service. their mother taught them when they were small that to those -- of those whom much is given, much is expected and required. and they lived up to that. >> yesterday, george will wrote in "washington post," washingto conservative "washington post" george will, who obviously did not agree with ted kennedy that often on issues, he said that of all the princes of camelot, it was ted kennedy that made the

biggest difference in the country and in the end it was ted kennedy that moved the country along more than any of the other brothers. surprising statement, wouldn't you agree? >> yeah, and it's the kind of comment i would suspect from a chicago cubs' fan. let's face it. i am not going to play the game of which son am i willing to say is most important. the hand works together and the kennedys work together, if jack kennedy had not been elected president, and provided the strategy and philosophy, this would be a very different country today. but all three kennedy brothers, each in their own way, and jfk as the intellectual leader, and

teddy as the legislateor, each made their own way in this country. >> tell us what we will find as we read your book? what will we hear about the kennedys that we did not hear before? >> well, you will hear insights on jfk. how he thought and operated. he was not only my boss for 11 years, but he was my friend and mentor. in terms of the items in the book that have not been published before, there are some interesting insights on what jackie thought of lyndon johnson, and to the extent her

dark views reflected her husband's views, we'll never know. >> when i am trying to figure out whether somebody likes me or not, i look at their wife when i meet them. that's the telltale sign. >> well, it's candid and humble. highly recommended. i will tell my students to read it. >> speaking of the relationship between kennedy and johnson, 1964 at the convention, bobby kennedy gets up and speaks of the garish son, in reference to lbj. >> and quoting shakespeare, romo and juliet. everybody understood.

yeah, it was in reference to lyndon johnson, who was steaming, understandably. it was a wonderful moment of heartfelt mischief. >> yeah, it was. everybody is talking about health care reform. bobby, speaking of the tough campaigner and the guy running around and shaking people down, and wondering are you a delegate? if you are not a delegate, get out of my way. >> i don't believe that story for one moment. >> what is that? >> bobby never said that to anybody. >> said what? >> get out of my way. >> yeah. he walked into a room, and there were a lot of different people around, and bobby barged in ex

said how many delegates are in here? i never heard that story. >> he was a tough, hard, little machinist in the back room. >> i think we ought to emphasize that all three kennedy brothers showed a quality that not everybody that goes to washington shows, and that's the quality of continuing growth. most politicians, joe, i am sure you discovered when you were there, think once they get to washington they know it all. they are not interested in knowing more, or talking to people that know more than they do, but jack, bobby, teddy, they all grew and out gruesome of their young eer hedges. ñ i'm here on this tiny little plane, and guess what...

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we will start our travels across the great country out west. look at the jam cam, as we like to call it. in los angeles. let's keep on moving. where are we headed next? and there is chicago, illinois. washington, d.c. and there is an old abandoned rail yard in washington. of all the places -- boy, this is a horrible trip across the country. >> t.j. has to be in charge of this. >> trust me. it's a wonderful country. you wouldn't know it by this.

>> let's talk about the bobby story as a positive, because everybody was in l.a., and as history reads it, as i read in the history book, and maybe somebody made this up, but bobby was a guy in charge of delegates. he walks into a suite in a hotel in 1960, and there are all of these movie stars, and everybody wants to be around the man of the hour, and bobby walks in and says how many delegates are in this room? how many people in this room are going to help my brother become the democratic nominee in 1960? >> yeah, that sounds like a political story, by which i mean, that's politics. >> and i mean it as a positive. and when he found out none were there, basically, he told them to get out and let's find the delegates, and get my brother

shaking hands with delegates. now, bobby counted votes, and how many votes would bobby be able to count that would be changed because of the passing of a beloved liberal lion like ted kennedy in this health care debate? >> i don't think any, to tell you the truth. i don't think that this is a -- this is a big fight overseeri ss substance. there are many people talking about what a great guy he was. is that going to change their mind on a serious issue like health care? i doubt it. >> any democrats out there, the evans that we keep talking about, and the lincolns, and the

people in the conservative states? >> no. the problem with health care right now, 30 years ago, there was a clear government. it could make promises about vision airy programs, and you might believe it and go for it. now we are more skeptical than we were. this is not medicare time in 1964. this is not roosevelt and social security. they had clear fields. it's a mercky field. those are the sort of things that are stopping, i believe, health care. serious reservations. >> we have to do news. my question is, i wonder if there is somebody in the white house, and i don't mean it in a negative sense, but is there anybody in the white house that understands that profound

creptism that a majority of americans have regarding the federal government, and a percentage of those people who voted for barack obama, because they did not like what their federal government had done over the past eight years under george bush and dick cheney? >> you do wonder that. >> who is that person in the white house that is skeptical? >> who is the person in the white house who is skeptical? i don't know. you look at them and you wonder if they know what they don't know. do you know what i mean? so many of them are young. and they are in a great, you know, political rising time, as ted said, it's hard for you not to be thinking a lot of your own views. and seeing the truth. i don't know who in the white house accurately is surveying the field and understanding what reservations exist out there in

the united states. >> liberals hated him, his decision to bring in david gergin first, and -- >> who, bill clinton? >> clinton brought in people after he had troubles in 1983. >> he was from arkansas. he understood left and right and big center that could move different ways. you never want to lose the big center. >> the question is whether the chicago people that have been brought in understand the big center again in the middle of this big storm that they are enduring politically. savannah, you work over there? >> yeah, on the one discreet point about does anybody in the white house get it that people are skeptical of the federal government. at a minimum, the president himself pays lip service. people expect at a minimum the

government to be confident. as much as when we are talking about the loss of sight of the center, which may be the case, and he is angering the left as much as he is angering the right lately. health care, certainly with the wavering on the left. and not going far enough in the left view. >> he has the right and left mad at him. the thing he wants to do is look at the center and look at eventually is the center right country. if obama had his own left pounding him in a passionate way every day it would be fabulous. america would look and see the left pounding him, and america would think i guess he is not so left. he must be doing very moderate things. and that's part of where the big center is.

clinton knew this. >> and barack obama understands it on the international stage. as far as foreign policy goes, he is certainly much more of a moderate. and you look at the stimulus package, and there is not a single republican that i have ever known in the house, at least, that voted for the stimulus. >> some of them wanted to. >> some of them wanted to. >> they wanted to see how easy they were going to try and get along. >> but people in the left now are starting to be critical of the grab bag, like cap and trade, a budget that causes the debt to explode by $10 million. he has been signing bills that nancy pelosi ex harry reid

crafted. he has to find the center domestically. he is nowhere near there. i know the left like hearing that. it's the reality. >> and you i talked a couple months ago where this man, he will get a republican congress in 2010, and they will pound him from the right and he will go towards the middle. the congress now is yanking him left. it doesn't yield the kind of policy americans will readily support. >> i have to say this, and then we have to go to news. it saved bill clinton, having a republican congress. if you look at george w. bush, a man that did not veto a single spending bill while republicans ran washington, and a man that listened to nobody on foreign policy but himself, his inner voice while republicans ran washington, the second democrat

took control, he fired donald rumsfeld, and talked about spending. george w. bush needed a democratic congress, every bit as much as obama needed a republican congress to balance it out. when bush got rid of rumsfeld, he brought in robert gates. he listened to condoleezza rice more. the president i love more every year, james madison. >> james madison, politician. >> okay, statesman. and here is willie geist, and he is a statesman and has the news. >> we have been looking at live pictures from the john f. kennedy public library where we continue the viewing of ted

kennedy. this is the first of several ceremonies planned over the coming day. and nbc mike tie aeby joins us. >> they are saying 25,000 people passed by. now the crowd stretches as far as the eye can see. this morning we arrived under a mackerel sky, and now i see a horizon. and there should be crowds here until 3:00 when the public viewing ends, preparing for a memorial service tonight at which many people will speak. four of kennedy's colleagues will speak from the senate, and the last speaker will be caroline kennedy, and that's a private viewing, and it will be

covered by pool coverage from the media. and today it continues to be a long day of remembering by a crowd that is diverse by age and race and mobility, and there are a lot of people needing canes or something to walk. and there are planes over head. big crowds expected until 3:00. >> mike taibbi with us, and we thank you so much. and eugene robinson with us, whose article today is entitled "a prince's fate."

gene, thank you so much for being with us. i go back to gary will's book that focused on ted kennedy's doomed 1980 presidential campaign. he talked about ted kennedy the human, having to work in the city below with his brothers' eternal flame looking down on him. and wills kept writing through the book, it's hard being an american prince. you pick up on that this morning? >> it is. if you think about it, he was the prince. the youngest of nine children, and born into a dynasty. and he was a king.

teddy's brother, jack, became king. joe, the oldest brother was supposed to be king, but he died in the war. bobby was supposed to be king after jack. you know, teddy was born in 1932, 15 years younger than jack. there was a huge separation. he was growing up, and his brother was a young man already. and so he was the baby boy who, it seemed to me, in 1980, was my first exposure to national politics at the democratic convention. the 1980 campaign, seemed to me, something that he felt obliged to do because of the family legacy.

i agree that after he lost in 1980, he gave that incredible speech at the convention. he was liberated. he was able to learn who ted kennedy was and ted kennedy wanted to be and what ted kennedy's role was going to be in the city and the nation. he carved out quite a role for himself. >> peggy, we are all talking about how wonderful ted kennedy was as a person, and how he could work with everybody, but everybody needs, republicans and democrats alike in washington loved him, but it's -- also we almost forgot the ted kennedy of 1980. a horrific campaign. could not even tell roger mudd why he wanted to be president of

the united states. stiff and awkward at town meetings. in 1976, joe klein said he followed him around in massachuset massachusetts, and said he was out of his element. a terrible retail politician. and he grew out of that. >> yeah, a funny thing about ted kennedy. gene mentioned that maybe unconsciously subversed what other people are putting you on, and you decide what you want-to-be and you don't want to be it, and you find subtle ways to make sure it doesn't happen. and i think sometimes the presidency is in the american imagination and our historic imagination, it's a mystery, and

they find ways to skew up their lives so they will not be serious candidates. have you seen that in washington, those that think about it, and you can tell, he decided along the way he doesn't want it? >> i have actually seen that personally in recent months with a good friend of mine who knew, who knew that the decisions me made -- >> he was being considered presidential timber, and therefore -- >> i don't analyze. i just report. and yes, that happens from time to time. gene, we also have been talking about how remarkable ted kennedy's success in the senate has been considering he spent the last quarter century operating in the age of reagan, the age of ronald reagan, shaped and defined in 1981. >> he did. it was fascinating.

we talked about his genius for incrementalism, and his genius for the way legislation actually gets made in congress the way things actually happen on capitol hill. >> gene, let me stop you there. would he support incrementalism today in the health care plan or would he do what he did in '71 and '93 and say we want it all or nothing? >> oh, you know, this time, i think that he would -- he would be out there leading the charge, you know, and stating with, i think, great clarity the moral imperative for comprehensive health care. i frankly think that with the discussion where it is now, with some things that he has dreamed of for years in the bag, i think that he would cut a deal.

but, you know, that is -- if we want to talk about this in the context of the obama white house, you know, a difference between leadership in congress and leadership in the white house. i think ted was brilliant at the one and perhaps not the other. his role should be a bit different. >> thank you, gene. we always love having you on and reading your column. it's in this morning's washi washington post. coming up, mark haines. 4m4mm

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the magnitude of human suffering that occurred in the city of new orleans, in the wake of hurricane katrina, so that we can assure that this never happens again. and that no health care professional should ever be falsely accused in a rush to judgment. >> tomorrow marks the fourth anniversary of hurricane katrina making landfall on the gulf coast. and search crews walked into new orleans medical center and horrified to find 45 patients dead, and many with terminal illnesses. and one of the doctors in charge was arrested in the death of nine of those patients, but in 2007, a grand jury declined to indictment her in those deaths. and they examined what happened after katrina, and what is being

done to prevent such another tragedy. so many horror stories came out of hurricane katrina. you point one here where doctors are putting numbers on patients, and walking through the hospital looking to see who lives and who dies. tell us about it. >> it was a terrible situation. imagine four years ago the power goes out after the flood waters of katrina start to rise. and there is no air-conditioning. it gets hot inside the hospital. no running water. toilets backed up. and it smells terribly. the evacuation was very, very slow. and the helicopters were not arriving quickly enough. and at some point, the physicians as you mentioned, decided who would go first, and who would get the first slots on the evacuation helicopters, and who would have to wait. and the do not resuscitate

orders go last. >> they died? >> well, they got sicker as the days went by. and so at some point, when the helicopters finally did start to come, that thursday, september 1st, that's when a number of doctors made this decision to administer the drugs, morphine, and they are normal drugs that you might give. a couple -- the physicians, and this is what is new about the article, were coming to come out and say why it was they gave the drugs and their intention was to hasen the death of the patients. instead of four patients who died, which is what dr. poe was charged with, but there were 18 patients that had the drugs in their system. >> and the doctors told you they administered the drugs to hasten the patients' death.

>> yeah, and they stand by their decision today. not dr. poe, because she is not talking about the matters, but these other two doctors were willing to speak about it. yes, they did say that they intended to hasten death. >> what was their justification for administering drugs that they believe would eventually kill the patients? >> well, i think they had different justifications. they had different explanations of it. one of the things we have to do is put ourselves in that situation. they were going on almost no sleep. they had tired, and hot, and nothing like we are sitting in our comfortable studio here today. they felt -- one of them felt fear. he was really worried that if everybody left the hospital, people from the neighborhood, they were heard shooting guns, they would come in and rape patients. they were worried about what

would happen to the dying patients. >> the doctors, did they give names? >> yeah, they have. >> do they not fear wrongful death lawsuits. >> yeah, they probably do. and it was brave of them to come out and talk about what they did. and there is one issue whether something technically fits the definition of a crime. and there is another question whether or not a prosecutor or jury should be prosecuting them for that, given all of the exsten waiting circumstances. >> were these people inexperienced? is this a huge scandal? what is it? characterize the story for me. >> in terms of the physicians that took part, i would say they

were more experienced. they said some of the younger people just did not get it. there was dissension among the communities. and in one case, they just left the hospital. and it was actually the more experienced physicians, ones who worked for a long time in an icu who experienced end-of-life issues, and felt that the patients were close to death anyway with the exception of a couple of them. >> what happened there? in the whole city? it's the wildest story of k katrina. >> yeah, of everything. >> we get examples of this, and new stories and new expressions of this breakdown. >> what is now, a couple years

removed, what is the ethical idea of how to handle this? was it a good thing to do in the final analysis? >> well, it goes back to the time of aristotle and plato. we give no deadly positions. i think the american medical ethics is clear about this. but this was in the context of a total breakdown. the people in the hospital should never have had to be in the circumstances. i think we need to be thinking about what this needs, is placing nobody in this position in the future. >> we have not learned enough lessons from katrina. four years later, my god, we still have such a long way to go. and just helping that city out, still, so much to do.

doctor, thank you for being with us. when we return, mark haines live from the new york stock exchange. >> look behind me for a second. this shot looks like a hollywood horror set. let me tell you why this shot behind us may not be completely indicative of what you see all around in this neighborhood. the reason why is this. because you actually have a house standing that you can actually shoot. it's a desperate situation. as i have been saying all along k the people that could afford being hurt by this hurricane the least are the ones that ended up being hurt the most. - hi. - blue shirts: hello!

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all right. we have a live picture of maine. somewhere around there we have, of course, mika brzezinski, in whatever altered state she is in. we have a lot of things going on with the kennedy memorial service today. but peggy, tell me about this connection between the reagans and the kennedys? >> joe, it's something that became a surprising old-school

friendship. early in the reagan presidency, rose kennedy had not been back in the white house since jack kennedy died. they were the first people to invite her in and to host her. and they were really delighted by her. a few years later ted kennedy contacted them and said we have the jfk library newspaper boston, and it's new. we have to raise funds. could you help us out. and ronald reagan said, of course, i will help you out. he set himself up, and wanted to do a speech at a fund-raiser at teddy kennedy's home in 1985. he wanted to do a speech on the personality and character and meaning of the political persona of jack kennedy, and he did. it was for all involved, you know, this big republican conservative leader and this big liberal democratic family

getting together, and talking about a former president in a way that was appropriate and loving. it was a combination of both. a friendship was sparked. ted kennedy wrote a beautiful hand written letter to the reagans afterward, and really lauding reagan's leadership. it was quite lovely. because i had gotten to work on the reagan speech, teddy's letter, a copy was forwarded it to me. i thought what grace. this is grace meeting grace. anyway, a lovely friendship began there. and mrs. reagan, nancy reagan, called into "hardball" and spoke about their friendship. i think she wanted it known, sometimes bipartisan moments can't happen, and sometimes they can. affection and regard help the

work. just a nice story. >> that's a helpful tale for all of us today. thank you, peggy. we love having you here. come back soon. >> thank you. up next, editor of the "new york times" book review, sam tanenhaus with his new book. "the death of conservatives." hey mom i need some minutes. i just gave you some at the restaurant. yea i know. i thw them out. they were old so... old! they are rollover minutes. they are as good as new. ya know not everyone gets to keep their unused minutes. and these days we can't afford to be wasteful. saving minutes... ...saves money. yea.

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with us now, we have the editor of "the new york times" book review, and "the new york times" week in review, sam tanenhaus. remarkable book that people on the left and the right talked about when your article was first published in the new republic, which led to this book. the obama administration studied it closely. when i read it, i was in the middle of my book. you helped me to re-write my

introduction. >> and conservatism is something that i want to see revived. i think it's a gloerious history and has gotten off track. same thing that happened to liberalism about 30 to 40 years ago. the liberals got their act together. there was progress to be made. and conservative can do it too, by looking at the history and the great moments and thinkers and leaders that it produced. >> you talk about kennedy, how reagan should like ted kennedy. ted kennedy helped reagan get elected. >> within the family, he was known as the natural politicians. he liked to shake hands and go out and meet the people. he was not really good at politics on the big stage. his intempered attack on -- >> by the way. we have been saying nice things about ted kennedy here,

wonderful man from everybody that knew him, but that really was a turning point of the judicial nominating process, and that may be one of his darker legacies in the u.s. senate. >> well, it was a case of his not sticking to what he was best at. what he was really good at was governing. he was a maestro of the legislative process. at a time in the 1980s and 90s when there was an anti-government philosophy, not just among republicans, but also democrats. bill clinton talked about himself as a third way, small-government politician. the era of big government was over. and there was ted kennedy. in a sense, he was old-fashioned and out of date right from the start. >> he was a liberal lion to the end.

contradictions there. making bills. believing in incrementalism. he remained a liberal lion. >> what he saw was that change would not come in a day. he, himself, had huge mistakes in his personal life. there is a famous statement, liberals are afraid of the subject of death, because death cancels out the idea of the perfect utopian future. and kennedy knew about death. death he witnessed, and one he probably caused. >> why did you write the book? >> it seemed to me our political discussion had gotten badly off track, partly because the right was not examining itself. you could hear some of the leading pundits and the journals talking about how they had to go after barack obama and all the dangers that he promised without once staking stock of the

mistakes they made. if they turned back the clock, the book is about the rise. later, too, the fall of conservatism. and i focus on the moment when they spoke on the most eloquent and important ways to the american people, and restored some of the key values that are so important to us, and made our politics a matter of discussion. >> let's talk about bill buckley. he is obviously a man that you are writing a back on right now, and a guy who was a type of conservative that you say america needs. and yet, bill buckley was tough on liberals, and said some things that made critics on the left flinch. >> he was very, very much. particularly when he was young. he was a master of argument. he was a mast yuer of controver.

he made people think. he was not just about scoring points. in my view, i describe this in the book, the great liberal break through came at the time of the great society, but after lyndon johnson brought in the war on poverty and all the great society programs, they did not seem to be working. in fact, some feared they had a backlash effect. there were huge riots. first los angeles in watts in 1965, and then in newark and then in detroit, in 1967. and daniel patrick, who was the author of many of the great society programs spoke before the american for democratic action. and he said we cannot blame the other side for what happened. we have been in power all the time. we were able to do the things that we wanted. look what we got for it.

this is the time for liberals to look at responsible conservatives and join with them because we all share a common value, what he called the politics of stability, of order in the society, a sense of individual freedom, and the government was there to protect you, but still civil society is what mattered most. >> and that sounds like russel kirk, and edmond burke. >> here is the thing, joe. bill buckley reported on page one of the "new york times" because it was show shocking to democrats and liberals. and here was bill buckley's opportunity, and he said, look, they were wrong and we were right. that's not what he said. and my favorite line in the book. anything we conservatives can do to help, just holler. >> what a guy. you write about the death of

conservativism, and ted kennedy, you write about it where he said i am a liberal. liberalism is not dead, obviously, but interesting. you don't have anybody who is willing to use the l word anymore. >> yeah, the term now is progressive. the term progressive was in the 1930s, where that was lying with communism. and it's what for edwards called himself and hillary clinton called herself, progressive. the l word became toxic. and it really meant the power of belief in government. >> the caricature, anti-abortion, and name calling, and calling barack obama a nazi. what is the reality?

what is a moderate conservative noo it's somebody that understands, a delegate balance between the institutional forces of government, courts, congress, our president, and the institution of society. and the papers that i work for, our universities and churches, and together they reinforce one another. somehow what the right began to do was to drift away from a belief in both governmental and social institution, and embrace a kind of culture war. it's a war -- it's a politics of emnaty. that's what i call it. and it's about demonizing the other side. and the left did this in the 1960s. and it gave us a politics that still hovers there. we can't get rid of it. and it binds us altogether and

reinforces us as citizens, and gives us the help when we need it and the independence to be ourselves, and that's what america has been all about. >> yeah, and that's where we are freying right now, the far left and the far right, and everybody calling everybody a nazi. it's getting worse by the day. >> and we come back to the words that we use. and bill buckley, he was the best thinker and writer. the language was there. and i remember saying how was it that you got on to the case of barry goldwater, and then ronald reagan, and then he said they came to me, because the political leaders needed the thickers, and they needed the ideas to structure the argument that they would then represent as figures, as political figures.

i don't worry so much about republican politicians right now, but i remember our conservative intellectuals that don't have the rigor or the capacity to listen. buckley could be very tough on liberals. if you saw him on firing lines, the great debate line that he has for some 35 years, he listens and he heard what the other side had to say where he saw errors, and he saw he could pounce, he did, but then he always gave them their say. that's what we lost. the real conversation. our democracy originated in that. >> the importance of listening and learning. and bobby kennedy said one time, and it seems like a lost art. the book is "the death of conservatism." we want to get you back talking about it next week. we'll be right back with more

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we come to the end of the week. it's the end of an era. willie, this way. savannah guthrie is leaving us today. >> leaving nbc, probably. >> what was it like? >> they do call us the lion of cable news. >> was awe inspiring. i had no idea you were so

intelligent, and well spoken, and attractive, too. tall. if you need anybody back, again, i am kind of free, available. >> listen, it didn't work, and you have to trust me here. it's not you, okay. it's me. >> really? i feel like -- when you say that, i feel like you mean it's me. >> no, no, no. >> i wish i were a better person. >> exactly. >> you deserve better. >> that's the thing, savannah, and i am deadly serious, here, i am not good enough for you. you are too good for me. >> this conversation usually happens over brunch for me, but -- >> in a very public place, which is why we are telling you this with millions and millions of people watching right now. >> i just want to say that i had a good time with you guys. i learned a lot. i will take what i learned to the next show that i do. >> the whole