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i'm ed schultz. this is a special edition of "the ed show." at this hour the body of senator ted kennedy is being moved in preparation for tonight's wake. the public viewing ended a short time ago. tens of thousands of people have walked through the jfk library to pay their respects to the senator. people lined up in the parking lot before dawn this morning for a chance to honor this man. many of the visitors were personally thanked by the senator's widow, vicki kennedy, kennedy's children and other members of the family. tonight starting at 7:00 p.m. a memorial service will be held to celebrate the senator's life and the work that he did. vice president joe biden, caroline kennedy will be among the speakers along with senators john kerry, chris dodd, john mccain, and orrin hatch. joining me now from the jfk library is nbc's kelly

o'donnell. kelly, it has been very heartwarming to see the outpouring of love and support for the kennedy family through all of this the last day. >> it really has, ed. we've heard both from members of the kennedy family and people who were here, the same sentiment that you just expressed. there really has been a sense of coming together, and i really took notice of how many people brought their own story to tell about some kind of way that ted kennedy touched them. now, of course, he represented the people of massachusetts, and so there were many who said when i called his office, he helped my family with this issue or when i wrote him, he wrote back. a lot of people who commented about their feeling grateful and being impressed by the personal touch that kennedy showed during his life. so that was part of the motivation for many to attend here. of course, there were tens of thousands. the official count is over 30,000 last time that i checked, and it was really an amazing sight. this is a beautiful setting to begin with, and then when you

add all of those people who came with a quiet respect and it was really quite something to see. all of these events have touched the family and we really did see some other things that we are not as accustomed to with the many kennedy funerals that have been a part of american life. we have reached a point now where so many of the family members come out and speak directly to those who have come to show their respects, and that seemed to touch everyone involved. we had the only surviving member of ted kennedy's generation, his older sister jean. she was here and was quite tearful as she shook hands with some who had gathered here, and even the youngest edward kennedy iii of that generation, an adorable little guy who was out here shaking hands and hes quite a name and he carried on some of the legacy of being able to handle himself with the public. we saw very young kennedys, faces with he know and some that were new to us who were really working through this line, talking to people.

robert kennedy, jr. said that he was struck by how many people shared with him those kinds of stories i mentioned, someone who had help with a son who was in the military or help with benefi benefits. the very practical things that people go to their members of congress for every day. well, if your member of congress was ted kennedy, many people here felt she was we-- they wer well-served by him. >> a conversation i had with senator kennedy several years ago, he was so excited about the next generation of kennedys that were coming up. he said we've got 50-some kids coming up, and they're all going to be in public service, and it's going to be the next generation of kennedys and he was very excited about that. he was a very futuristic guy and a very giving man. he just couldn't do enough for this country. kelly, what about tonight? i would imagine tonight is going to be a very emotional time for john kerry and chris dodd, his best friends in the senate. what are we going to see tonight? >> well, as you mentioned, john

kerry, there was an emotional moment today when he was among those who went in to see senator kend lying in repose and he approached the casket and touched the flag and he was choked up with emotion. we will hear from those close friends and the program reflect what is many in the kennedy family believe was one of edward kennedy's strengths, a bipartisan spirit. so you will have firm republicans like orrin hatch and john mccain who will speak on behalf of senator kennedy, and, of course, john kerry, chris dodd, those close friends. you will hear music. there will be a video tribute which i saw earlier today, it has a lot of imagery of ted kennedy on his sailboat and you hear him in his own words. the evening will end with caroline kennedy who has been so close to her uncle over the years and emerged a bit publicly earlier this year when there was talk she might become the appointed next senator in new

york. now she will play a different kind of public role as she speaks for her uncle who was certainly the one who walked her down the aisle when she was married and encouraged her in so many ways and was really a rock for her when her brother john f. kennedy, jr. died in a plane crash. we will see a coming of the circle of life when it was ted kennedy who was often the one who spoke for those who had passed before him and now we will see caroline kennedy fulfill that duty for her uncle. >> thank you, kelly o'donnell reporting from the jfk library. thank you so much. joining me now is congressman jim clyburn of south carolina, the house majority whip. jim, good to have you with us on the program tonight. we've heard so much in recent days about the awesome accomplishments of ted kennedy as a legislator, 2,500 bills introduced, 550 have been enacted into law. but i think one that really sticks out the most was just how

brave he was back in the '60s in fighting for civil rights legislation in 1964. that has to have a tremendous impact on you as well. what about that? >> absolutely, absolutely. as you know, just maybe two years after he came to the senate, we were in the throes of the 1964 civil rights act. a year later the 1965 voting rights act. three years later the fair housing law. then four years after that we did the 1972 amendments to the civil rights act to bring state and local governments under that act. since that time he has been working very hard, especially with those of us in the congressional black caucus trying to get rid of all of these health disparities that exist in the country. his passion became health care, affordable, accessible, quality

health care for everybody, and i remember working very closely with him on the minimum wage. we worked ten years without an increase in the minimum wage and when we worked together on that, i saw close up what a man he really was. it was just a real pleasure to work with him and aside him. his son, patrick, and i became fast friends in the house, and i really mourn with him in this loss. >> and, you know, jim, speaking of minimum wage, that marked some of his most passionate times on the senate floor, and the one thing about senator kennedy, he never gave up. he was the lion because he never gave up. every year he would come back year after year and fight for that minimum wage and go after it. that was one of his top priorities, and he finally got it. when you look at the way he handled himself legislatively and the way he had differences

but tried to work across party lines. how big of an example is that to maybe some young legislators who are coming in because we've had such a partisan divide and a lot of these young legislators want to follow people who are higher up the line and with more seniority, but doesn't ted kennedy really exemplify what the senate and what the house is really supposed to be all about? >> absolutely, absolutely. i learned a lot from him. i do believe that reaching across the lines, across the aisle when it comes to trying to do what is right for the country, all of us feel that we know how to get things done. the fact of the matter is all of us need each other, especially in the legislative process. irrespective of how good your ideas may be, there are things that other people, other communities might see

differently, and so i learned a lot from him. in fact, i count among my great friends in the congress people like orrin hatch on the senate side. we have a lot of things that we don't agree on, but there is so much that we fundamentally agree on, and i notice when he talked about senator kennedy, he talked about it in such a way that made me proud to even call him my friend as well. and i'll try to do the same thing on the house side. i work very closely with members of the other party because i think that in the final analysis, we are all americans. we are all about trying to do what's ride by our constituents. we're all about making a good future for our children and grandchildren, and though we may have different ways, different approaches, the fact still remains, the end goal is the same for all of us. >> congressman, how would you feel about the bill coming out of the house with ted kennedy's name on it?

>> well, as you know, one of the bills we're working on in the house has mr. dingle, congressman dingell's name on it. he's been with us a long, long time. i do believe that the house ought to honor dingell, the senate ought to honor kennedy, and then we can get into the conference and see how best to go forward with that. i do believe that the members of the house really owe a great debt to congressman john dingell, and i think that we ought to honor him with our legislation, and the smenate should honor it's own and then when we get to conference we'll work it out. >> congressman, thanks so much. >> thank you so much for having me. coming up, ted kennedy's personal faith in god. he didn't speak much of it publicly but embraced catholicism very deeply. a key evangelical leader, reverend jim wallace, joins me

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waterboarding back welcome back to "the ed show." ted kennedy once said his mother's greatest gift to her

children was faith in god. he fully embraced in later life, though rarely in public form or in a political way, showing it. he was quietly faithful yet deeply so faithful. here to talk about that is the president of sojourners, reverend jim wallace. nice to have you with us tonight on the program. we seem to be having some difficulty getting reverend jim wallace with us tonight. and about senator kennedy's faith which was very interesting, he did have a good friendship with jerry falwell. in fact, he spoke at liberty university in 1983 after mistakenly receiving a mailing from the moral majority asking for help battling ultra liberals like ted kennedy.

his face with was more personal didn't use it liberty. but he did go to liberty university in 1983 and speak to liberty university. here it is. >> i am an american and a catholic. i love my country and treasure my faith, but i do not assume that my conception of patriotism or policy is invariably correct or that my convictions of religion should command any greater respect than any other faith in this pluralistic society. i believe there surely is such a thing as truth, but who among us can claim a monopoly on it? >> i believe we have reverend jim wallace with us tonight. reverend, nice to have you on the program remembering ted kennedy. >> good to be back with you. >> tell us about that speech that he gave at liberty

university in 1983. senator kennedy and how that all came about. >> well, he surprised a lot of liberals by going to liberty and to being with jerry falwell, and i think he really spoke to both sides. he criticized how sometimes a harvard audience had booed and hissed jerry falwell. he was critical of that and then he criticized those on the other side who questioned the patriotism of americans who questioned american foreign policy. he was saying we have to come with our moral convictions, but let's not attack the moral character of those who disagree with us. it was his way of reaching across divides, which, as we heard, he's been doing in the senate for years, but even there at liberty he did it once again with jerry falwell. >> would you describe senator kennedy privately as a devout catholic? he made reference to his mother and that was one of the great gifts she gave to the children,

and that was the faith in god, and it seems to have left a strong impression on the senator. >> you know, you remember after the 2004 elections, the media narrative was that the democrats had lost the moral values voters. remember that big story? and the first democrat who called me was ted kennedy, and he invited me over to the house, and he and vicki and i had a long conversation into the evening, and i was impressed that he didn't say how could we democrats win back the religious vote. he didn't ask for talking points. we talked about faith, his faith, vicki's faith, my faith, and he was -- they were both very articulate about theology and catholic social teaching, and he was saying maybe his party hadn't been so clear as they ought to be about the moral foundations of their commitments. they talked about particularly the poor and the vulnerable, which are so central in catholic

social teaching, and so it was a great night of conversation, and he said, you know, i'm a new englander, and we don't wear our faith on our sleeve very easily, but it's important to me and maybe i should be a little more explicit sometimes about my faith. i don't want to be said to violate the separation of church and state, which, of course, we both were committed to, but he said how can i speak to my faith in a way that respects american democracy, diversity, and pluralism? and we had a great talk about that. so i think he really was motivated by his faith particularly at the last part of his life. this was really critical to him and everything he did. >> so we could look at his legislative career, fighting for the downtrodden, fighting for seniors, fighting for the less fortunate, always looking out for people trying to better their lives, and that paralleled the social teachings of the catholic church. do you believe that? >> well, he certainly believed

it. now, it's true he didn't vote on abortion the way his church would have liked him to vote. we talked about that that night and how he thought abortion was a moral tragedy, but he didn't vote the way his church would have liked. but on the issues of the poor, the vulnerable, his voting was right down the middle, the center if you will, of catholic social teaching. so you got other catholics and others who vote one way on abortion, but they don't really vote the same way he did on the poor and the vulnerable. so, you know, we can discuss and debate this as people have, but on the issue of the poor and vulnerable he was very clear. on the issue of abortion he and his church differed on how he ought to be voting. >> with this health care battle that's going on in america, he was an advocate for getting every american covered way back in the '60s. that, too, must parallel the social teachings of the catholic church. could we draw that conclusion? >> well, the catholic church, as

you know, and the church even more broadly takes care of the sick. jesus says i was sick and you visited me, you took care of me. this is central to matthew 25, the night he and vicki and i talked about the 25th chapter of matthew. i was hungry, i was naked, i was thirsty, i was sick, i was in prison and jesus said and you didn't come to me. so these were critical to him. so the catholic church not only heals sick people, it takes care of those who fall between the cracks of our broken health care system. millions of people are hurting and suffering. he cared about that. he want eed to mend and tix fix broken health care system. in that regard he was very consistent with what the catholic bishops say today about the need for fundamental expensive health care reform that doesn't ration care only to the wealthy, which our system

does, but makes sure that those -- you shouldn't be too par too far good health or you shouldn't be not covered when you're sick, and the health care industry often doesn't cover you when you're sick, so ted kennedy understood his church was clear about this and this was, as you know, the great cause of his life. >> reverend jim wallace, president of sojourners, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, ed. the story of the kennedys is a story of america. up next, the author of "the last lion" looks at the legacy of senator ted kennedy here on a special edition of "the ed show." stay with us. talk about a wake up call. i had a heart attack at 57. my doctor told me i should've been... doing more for my high cholesterol. what was i thinking? but now i trust my heart to lipitor. when diet and exercise are not enough, adding lipitor may help. unlike some other cholesterol lowering medications, lipitor is fda approved to reduce the risk...

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welcome back to "the ed show." too times in his lifetime ted kennedy was called upon to deliver the jeweloule ji -- euls for members of his family. how it is his turning to be remembered. tomorrow the president of the united states, president obama, will deliver the eulogy at the funeral. joining me now is neil swidy, a writer for "the boston globe" and co-author of a book released this year, "last lion: the fall and rise of ted kennedy." i haven't read the book.

i'm told it's excellent. >> thanks for having me, ed. >> you bet. when did the label lion start to stick with ted kennedy? when did he really get that label and what was it in his career that put that label on him? >> you know, one of the men who is speaking tonight, john mccain, calls him the last lion a few years ago, but the idea i think came in the '80s when a lot of the other liberal senators lost in re-election bids, and ted kennedy after his presidential ambitions had pretty much been put aside became the last liberal standing in the senate and took on his -- the senior statesman role there. >> tell us something about ted kennedy that maybe the american people don't know. is there anything that he did that -- on a consistent basis that maybe wasn't publicized

that you have in your book? >> there are so many things. i think -- so many contradictions are built into this man. one of the things is you think of the kennedys and you think of youth because he did so much to build the legacies of his brothers, and so much of what we think of his brothers is really ted's image of his brothers. but in some ways with all the early expectations of ted kennedy, we've seen him grow old now and seen him really shape the legacy of this family far apart from what his brothers had done, and one other thing, i think people who know ted kennedy know him to be a happy, positive, forward-thinking person who loves to have people around. what we found when we were working on the book is so much of his early years were shaped by loneliness. here is someone who had gone to

ten different schools in the first 11 years of his life. so much of the kennedy mystique we think about with the brothers and sisters playing touch football on the kennedy compound were really episodic periods of his life where most of his time was spent apart from his family. >> neil, thanks for your time tonight. i'm looking forward to reading the book. it's just out not long ago. he's the co-author of "the last lion: the fall and rise of ted kennedy." an unlikely alliance in 1971 might have meant a very different kind of health care debate in 2009. coming up steven pearlstein from "the washington post" on what kennedy considered his greatest political regret and what the loss of his voice means to the health care debate today. you're watching a special edition of "the ed show" on msnbc.

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welcome back to "the ed show." senator ted kennedy was one of the most effective dealmakers in congressional history, but he wasn't always that adept. one of his greatest legislative regrets was refusing to cut a deal on health care with president nixon back in 1971. at the time kennedy didn't want to compromise on a single payer system. steven pearlstein of the "washington post" wrote a piece on this today, and he joins us now. steven, thanks for your time here. interesting piece. what -- where did kennedy feel like he went wrong at that particular moment in his legislative career? >> well, richard nixon at the time thought he might be running

against ted kennedy into the 1972 presidential election, and he knew that kennedy was coming out with a single payer plan, which he didn't like, so he asked caster weinberger, who was then his secretary of health, education, and welfare as we called it at the time to come up with a plan, and the funny thing is the plan they came up with is remarkably similar to the one that democrats are now talking about in washington. it involved requiring everyone to have insurance and it would have the government help to subsidize that for those who couldn't afford it. >> wasn't it like a 75/25 percentage thing they got into over this that they couldn't compromise on? >> well, i don't really think it got down in the end of the day. they did back and forth. by the way, nixon proposed it, it went nowhere, we know what happened there, nixon won. it was after that that the dealmaking really went on. there were secret talks between kennedy and the white house and

they got fairly far and he brought in -- kennedy brought in wilber mills, the chairman of the house ways and means committee, he was involved in it and mills got a compromise bill through the house then mills himself got into problems with a sex scandal and he fell by the way. at the end of the day it was kennedy who pulled the plug in large part because the labor unions looking at the political problems that richard nixon was having convinced him -- with watergate, that he should hold out for single payer, that nixon would lose, the republicans would lose, there would be a democratic president and a democratic congress and they could finally get that single payer and kennedy listened to them and he later came to regret that. >> wasn't it president nixon who was willing to go along with kennedy on the low income subsidies which would have been a rather rare move for a conservative president? >> it was, and although you know richard nixon sometimes gets a bad rap on that.

he gave us several programs we now value quite a bit. he did agree. he was coming under pressure from the american medical association and from the small business groups which did not want this. they felt they would be pressured to provide health insurance, which in fact they're still saying today and they're still opposed to what's called an employer mandate even to this day. >> how much will the passionate, determined kennedy voice be missed down the stretch, steven pearl stestein pearlstein, in this health care debate we're going through? >> it will be missed quite a bit, and it won't be just the passion that's missing. ted kennedy over a long period of time, very long, developed a lot of cred with liberals. if he went to liberals and said we have to give up this to get that, they pretty much would go along with him, and there is nobody now who has that kind of credibility with liberals that can get them to make compromises that are going to be necessary to get this through. that's the problem.

>> steven, that really is the next story for the democrats. who is going to play that key role down the stretch that liberals will trust when the deal has got to be cut. >> i don't know who it will be, ed, because there's no one that's obvious right now. >> steven pearlstein, thanks so much for joining us tonight j my pleasure. year nearly seven seven years ago the senate lost another liberal paul wellstone. those on the right once again want to box in the left anyway they can by saying that tonight's event will become a political rally. we'll talk about that next on "the ed show." i will have some thoughts. most for headaches.

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welcome back. tomorrow 44 sitting senators and 3 former presidents and president obama will gather together to honor ted kennedy. the funeral is not open to the public. instead, the mission church will be packed with staffers, friends, and democrats who were all inspired by this great american. but people across the country are making a preemptive strike saying it could become politically charged like paul wellstone's memorial. senator we willstone was killed in late october. the memorial was held days before the 2002 midterm election at a sports arena in minneapolis. more than 20,000 people attended. they were in the height of a tough re-election fight and they had just lost their candidate in a devastating plane crash.

in that atmosphere, of course, they talked about the need to carry on the senator's seat to fight for his causes that paul wellstone believed in. paul wellstone was a strong progressive and an idealist and a fighter. he was brave. he was outspoken opponent to the war in iraq. he didn't want to go into iraq. he would have voted against it. wellstone had the same enthusiasm, vigor, and vitality that ted kennedy displayed day in and day out. he was a hard-charger. some claim naming the health care bill in honor of ted kennedy would be politicizing his death. his whole life was politics. he wrote the bill. his name is on it. this is about respect and honor, making sure his work goes on. that's how i see it, and this is how i think many liberals in this country will remember ted kennedy when it comes to the 11th hour of fighting for those who are in need and fighting for

the working folk of america. this is the kind of passion that we may be missing in this health care debate. this was ted kennedy, the one i knew. >> we still cannot get a $2.15 over two years, over two years. what is the price we ask the other side? what is the price that you want from these working men and women? what cost? how much more do we have to give to the private sector and to business? how many billion dollars more are you asking, are you requiring? when does the greed stop we ask the other side? >> so many parallels in this health care fight. joining us now is pennsylvania governor ed rendell. ed, great to have you on tonight. that passion undoubtedly is going to be missed when it comes to the fight for health care.

who do you see picking that up for the democrats in this fight? >> well, the interesting thing is, ed, i think we've lost that, he missed that passion at the beginning of the year when ted kennedy really fell ill. had he been 100%, i think we would have had a health care bill by now and we probably would have gotten 10 to 15 republican votes for it. there's only one person who i think can pick up the mantle. the reason the loss is to great is he was one person the american people knew where he stood, they knew what he believed in, and they knew he had genuine real passion. the only person that can pick up the cudgel is the president. he has to lead now. he has to go in and tell his fellow democrats, this is why we're here. if democrats don't believe in making health care available for all americans, we don't believe in anything. this is why you got elected. this is why you ran for public office, and we're going to get this done, and you're going to follow my lead. the passion has to come in my

judgment from the president himself. >> do you think that will happen, governor rendell? >> i do. i think senator kennedy's death is going to have a profound effect on at least one american, and that's barack obama. i mean, he cared very much for the senator. i know now he always wanted to get this done, but i believe he'll return to washington with a little extra fire in his belly to make this happen for senator ke kennedy but not so much for senator kennedy but for all those people senator kennedy fought so hard for, the disadvantaged, the vulnerable, the americans who have a tough row to hoe. he's fought so hard for them for nearly 50 years, and that's why president obama is going to come back and i believe pick up the leadership cudgel with a lot of fire and passion. >> ed, what about the political process with the rest of the democrats? chris dodd, john kerry, those who were so close to him. there's been a lot of talk about reconciliation in the senate.

do you think that the climate now takes them in that direction where they would be more apt to go that direction because they want to make sure this thing gets done? >> yeah, i think so. it's a balancing test. you know, it's true that ted kennedy, and i heard mr. pearlstein and he was terrific in his analysis. ted kennedy to reach across the aisle and make the deal and settle for 70% because he knew 70% was better than zero, and there's going to be an inclination to do that as we deal with democrats who haven't made up their mind yet, but we cannot compromise and produce a bill that really doesn't do anything, that is a bill in name only. we've got to fight for something that's substantial. we've got to fight to make sure that people who have prior illnesses can't be denied health coverage, people who get sick can't be dropped. that health care truly is portable and everyone has access to a decent plan. those are the things that we

cannot compromise on. so there's a danger with the desire to get a bill passed that we give up too much. i think it's a fine line, but the line has to be drawn in the name of substantial progress. >> and quickly, if the president does what you think he has to do by getting behind closed doors and say we're going, we're going to get this thing done, do you think that the senate democrats are going to be more apt to follow him at this point? >> absolutely. he should say to them, let's roll, let's do this for ted and let's do this for the people that ted cared about. let's get this done. i believe we'll get the votes to pass it comfortably. >> thank you, governor. appreciate your time on our program. thanks so much. >> thanks, ed. >> let's bring in our panel tonight. maria teresa kumar and also roy sekoff is with us, and ron christie, former assistant to president bush. maria, this is going to be a

very emotional night tonight. it's been an emotional number of days here, the kennedy followers. what really strikes you in some of the things that you have heard about senator kennedy if recent days and listening to the folks that have been remembering him, the people so close to him? >> i think more than anything it strikes that he didn't have to go into politics really. he had access to power, to money, to everything, but he did it because he believed in america and in americans. right now we're in an opportunity to honor his name by passing health care reform because we recognize that he, again, didn't have to fight this fight, but he did because he believed in the little guy, and now what we can do as an american public is galvanize republicans and democrats together and galvanize and make sure this legislation is in honor of the legacy he's established for himself. >> ron, what was ted kennedy's best quality in your opinion? i mean the guy, when he made a commitment to something, he didn't back down. if he was on your side, he was on your side. you didn't have to question

that. >> i think that's absolutely right, ed, and i didn't always agree with senator kennedy, but i admired him a great deal. when i worked in the white house in the first term of the bush administration, we worked with him on a one-on-one basis at the staff level. he recognized that the president had deputized his staff to negotiate with him on national service and making sure that thousands of americans across the country who wanted to do americorps and the peace corps and community service had that opportunity, and senator kennedy sat down with us, rolled up his sleeves, we met with him in the oval office with the president, and he was a very engaging man. he knew how to negotiate. he knew how to cut a deal. i think he will be sorely missed. >> roy, what do you think senator kennedy is really going to be remembered for? i mean, i think about the 1964 civil rights act. i think that really signatured his career and set the table for him to do a lot of things beyond that, which he was able to do. when you talk about 550 laws in this country with his name on it, that is just an unparalleled record. >> i think the lesson, ed, is really a human one.

you know, kennedy was very thrust onto the political stage very young, probably before he was ready, and then even in 1980 remember when they asked him why are you running for president, and he couldn't really answer. but after his biggest defeat, he showed there actually can be a second and a third act in american lives, right? he found himself, and he became really a nuts and bolts great legislator able to mix the nuts and bolts and the passion. i think that's the interesting thing. it's the old shakespeare line, some men are born to greatness, some have it thrust upon them. i think that's the interesting story. >> what do you think of his faith and the way i think you can draw a real parallel the catholic church and catholic social teachings and what he fought for and did it in a manner where he didn't politicize it, but there were so many parallels there. >> he believed in advocacy first and i think that's what faith of all kinds really bring to the table and he didn't have to show it publicly. everything at the end of the day was let's take care of the poor.

let's take care of the marginalized and take care of those in need. he did that every day as a public servant, and i hope we can continue that legacy. >> what did he mean to the latino community? >> he was significant. he was the first one to talk about comprehensive immigration reform back in the 'six and he believ believed in the dream act. there are 5 million undocumented that are children under 16 years old who would want to serve the country in this military service or would want to go to college and they can't. kennedy believed in equal rights of all americans and he was a quintessential immigrant. >> ron christy, a lot of talk about the health care debate in the remembrance of senator kennedy. has it been fair? has it not been politicized? do you struggle with it? are you okay with all of the conversation that's taken place because i think from a

historical perspective it's not like ted kennedy got on this health care thing two weeks ago. he was back going over it working with nixon back in the '60s and in the early '70s it was a concern of his, and i think it plays into the historical perspective of the man. >> well, he certainly has been consistent and obviously from the previous segment, we heard that senator kennedy had the opportunity to cut a deal with president nixon back in 1971. so you can't make the argument that he's a johnny-come-lately on health care reform. thus far, i think that the coverage on television has been very fair, very balanced. he obviously had quite a career in the united states senate, and i just don't want to see his memorial service turned into a political rally. i think if you look back to the service that was held for jack kemp when he passed several months ago, it was held with dignity and honorme. i'm hoping for the same thing for senator kennedy. >> we'll come back with more conversation and our show tonight. thousands came to pay respects. tonight it will be friends and

family at the john f. kennedy library in boston, massachusetts, remembering the life of senator ted kennedy in the great irish tradition. complete coverage of that event tonight right here on msnbc. show and tell you weren't always my favorite day. with all the pet hair in the air, i'd spend class preoccupied, bothered by itchy eyes. but now i have new zyrtec® itchy eye drops. it works fast, with just one drop, to relieve my itchy eyes from allergies for up to 12 hours. no other allergy itchy eye drop works faster or longer. which is good, 'cause there's a lotta paws to shake. with new zyrtec® itchy eye drops i can love the air™. (announcer) find it in the allergy aisle next to other zyrtec® products. [ female announcer ] trying to be smart with the family budget? here goes the good old steam. [ pfffft! ] whooa!!!!

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welcome back. the memorial service for senator ted kennedy is set to start in about two hours at the john f. kennedy library. roy sekoff and ron christie are still with us. we're moments away from "hardball" with chris matthews. caroline kennedy is going to be speaking tonight. she was very close to senator kennedy. what do you think she'll say tonight? >> you know, ed, i really got to go back to this whole politicalization thing. it's one of the most ludicrous things i've ever heard. a memorial is supposed to honor the person and their life. ted ken dnedy spent his entire life in politics. to think you can have a memorial service devoid of politics strikes me as politics is absurd. >> ron christie, where do you draw the line tonight? >> people can get up and talk about his vast accomplishments in the united states senate. i think a memorial serviceha