but real humanity. here's a quote from tonight's religious service. think where man's glory most begins and ends and they my glory was with friends. an amazing number of -- i'm stunned by it. you hear how could santa claus go to so many houses at night? >> somebody said why do you have such a passion for fighting poverty and he went, you've never read the bible? it was the answer to him. and he wasn't bible thumping in that sense. but he thought he was that was a perfect summary of where he stood, this is the way people are supposed to interact, period. >> i know a little bit about him personally, the quiet stuff, a lot of people go to church for show, they hold the bible in front of the church and all of that stuff, he would go to a quiet suburban catholic church where i went. he liked to go to the banjo mass with the kids. nobody was around, nobody shook

his hands, nobody noticed him. he was a church goer, not that you brag about that, it's an individual decision, but he didn't make it a political thing. >> one of the things i paid attention to in the last week, i live in west ford, massachusetts. and looking in those papers, and finding out what local people are saying about him. he is my senator, and he's been a senator for 43 years, there are a lot of those personal individuals connections. >> we have heard a lot of them. the memorial service for senator ted kennedy begins in one hour and keith ownerman and rachel maddow will be with us throughout the evening. we continue now with your special coverage. >> for the third time, the nation mourns a kennedy brother, the first two crystalline

memories of our youth, vivid, horrid, wrapped in the curse and the blessing of the inevery tanlt of a man, loan of the kennedy men to grow old in the service of his nation, not reaching the presidency, nor cut down with it nearly in his grasp, but content and every increasingly so, with a hand more of influence and shaping than of pomp and grandeur, nearly half a century in the senate of this land. whom the philosopher might have been thinking when he wrote, if thou workest at that which is before you, seriously, vigorously, calmly, without allowing anything else to distract him, but keeping the divine part for sure. if thou holdest to this, expecting nothing, fearing nothing, if thou satisfied with

the current treatment. thou will live happy and there is no man who's able to prevent this. this is msnbc's live coverage of the memorial service for senator edward m. kennedy. 24 hours, people by the tens of thousands made their way to the jfk library in boston. the police estimate, all told, 50,000 came. to say goodbye to senator edward kennedy and to honor him. some of the biggest political names and the senator's family, that's often one and the same, of course, they have gathered to

do is same ning. that's from our msnbc headquarters this evening and welcome to our cover raj of the celebration of live memorial for ted kennedy. i'm keith ownerman and we'll be here until the top of the hour when this is expected to begin. this should go right on time and it should be great as advertised, as titled, the celebration of this man's life. >> it's going to be an amazing night to watch. anybody who has a love of this country, especially the irish, tonight, this is a real irish wake tonight. i have been thinking, like you all, we knew this was coming for a long time. he's an older man, we knew it was going to come anyway. it was about the big guy at the funeral, when everybody else is grieving and cold and scared, and there's one big guy, a guy who's life itself, called the

roller of big cigars, the muscular ones, the only emperorer, the emperor of ice cream. the guy who says, i am life, don't fear. that's a missing element today. >> that is the definition. we have been talking about this for the last couple of days, the definition perhaps of greatness as a person, as opposed to a political person, but a person, that you are missed at your own funeral, not just because of the grief involved in your passing, but because you would have helped everybody else through it which has been said time and time ago for the last four days. >> the legacy is very much the legacy of his family, the youngest of nine children, not just the youngest brother, but the youngest of all nine. the younger generation of kennedys don't have that accent. it's sometimes called a boston accent.

that is not a boston accent. that is a boston bromine accent that did not survive that generation of kennedy. the tale of that line of that line of kennedys, it's an ends of an era as well as in american politics. >> in some respects, we are replaying the memorial services, both for both of his brothers for the president and for robert to some degree we are, at least invoking those times as well? >> they melt together, they are brothers and i've been working on this documentary which has been showing for the last couple of days. in a very strong way, they supported each other even after death. bobby, remember that great speech at the atlantic city convention in '64, you have seen it on tape. and he compared it to hamlet. and took a shot at johnson

obviously, the gar rish son. and obvious teddy gave that unforgettable speech when bobby was killed. in their own ways, they cannonized each other, long the way. and these guys didn't forget each other, and tried to substitute for each other. they tried to continue something. i'll say it again, this may sound partisan and political, i think teddy saw a head, it was time to move it off of the family. there wasn't somebody in the family that could be that kind of national leader. i think he gave it to barack obama. i think the leadership came from caroline in the younger generation, she in that beautiful article in the "new york times," said there's something in this guy that my father had. i don't believe in blood, i don't believe in royalty, i think it's a great phenomenon only kennedy family, including joe jr. who was killed in the war, they all had it. it's hard to find, that it that

says follow me. i think barack, i'll say it again, he hasn't done it yet, it's still waiting, we're going to have to know. >> our own norah o'donnell is joining us from the jfk library in boston. nora, good evening. >> and good evening, and of course the perfect weather for an irish memorial. it is rain, lots of rain here and of course gray skies, but tonight is about a celebration of senator ted kennedy's life, earlier there was a public that came here. you mentioned 50,000 people in the past two days. tonight it's the private memorial, his closest friends, family and associates who are going to tell good stories about the senator and hopefully have a couple of laughs and of course there will be plenty of singing which senator kennedy loved to do with his friends, everyone from the vice president joe biden to of course senators mccain and senators hatch, two

republicans, senator kerry and we just saw senator dodd pulling in. and at the end of this, we'll hear from caroline kennedy, who just a short tile a lot we also saw arrive here at the library, it's been interesting on of course this day when so many people have come out, i think one of the more poignant moments was watching teddy kennedy iii, the 11-year-old grandson of the senator, was out here all day walking in the rain of course and he has that longest bob of blond hair and freckles across his nose and doing interviews with the media and interested in everything. he told my colleague peter alexander when asked about what he felt this day, he said he's sad that his father is gone, but he's happy that so many people came out and paid respects today. so really a very sweet moment. one other note, we also saw john and elizabeth edwards together, a short time ago arrive here,

they spoke with the press and of course talked about missing senator kennedy, elizabeth edwards of course also suffering from terminal cancer, seemed very upbeat here today, and jonathan said he hoped this would be a way for many of those in the senate to reflect, to reform health care. i thought senator orrin hatch would be here tonight. i asked him, do you think that people will reconsider, spend more time trying to get back to a deal? and he said no, not if it klutz a public option. so it's interesting on this night. and in an hour from now, it's going to be about telling good stories and having a good laugh. >> norah o'donnell, thanks for joining us. i guess that would be the hope that would be about people and would be waiting whenever the events are closed and the senator is laid to rest, finally tomorrow. it will go back to being purely

about politics, but there's so much politics at this particular moment, and there's almost no container to keep it in even tonight. >> well, ted kennedy might rearouse not agreement, but perhaps comedy, perhaps respect. we're not going to get anywhere without some sort of deal and reverend jackson just showed up there, reverend jesse jackson, there he is, he's on the air right now, reverend jackson, thank you for joining us. >> yes, sir. >> talk about ted kennedy tonight and the role he's played in the kennedy saga. >> you know that in the spectrum of his own family's legacy, while many leaders try to -- he hit the chains t course of american history. the civil rights act of 1964, in the legal regional race apartheid in our country.

but he came and gave an address in washington in 1963 from texas to florida to maryland. we could not buy ice cream or have -- he changed all of that. and faced great retribution for it. august 28, 1955, emmett till killed. president barack obama received the nomination in denver with mr. kennedy present and then august 28, 209, 2009, he's laid rest. >> let me ask you about what's left as unfinish business in this country. what is your expectations about the liberal agenda right now. health care, it has always been on the agenda starting back in the 40s.

it's still on the agenda, it's top on the agenda now. you witnessed the false starts, where does it stand. >> as a liberal conservative, you look back now. you believe the moral center, the reason he prevailed, he embraced the moral center, we now look back and no one disagrees with the civil rights act or the women's right to vote. today the big issue is reviving a tragic economy. his brothers died rather tragedy and so suddenly. he lived out the building of that canal and he'll be out there, he preached his own eulogy, choosing to embrace barack obama as a signature statement, his affirmation of

his vote against a war that has no basis. his fight for a comprehensive health care bill for all americans. he reached back to the poor in ways. and on the health bill allowing them to come forward. i hope that america will appreciate that last struggle and honor him in some way. >> reverend jackson, keith ownerman. i'm wondering if senator kennedy said before his passing that there's no time for further measures on health care reform. given the roster of accomplishments of the senator's 47 years nearly in the senate, was it a hole, did he view this, do you think as another part of health reform, as another part of this continual battle that he seemed to be spearheading

against whoever might be discriminated against, that it wasn't necessarily a color issue, a gender issue, an orientation issue, a poverty issue, it was whoever was getting the short stick in society was the person he was going to sting up for, did you see that it way? >> yes, because he believed we live under the law, america's a country of laws, so the right to vote, the right to access open housing, the right who health care, he believed that those are left out of protection. those that are much too early. he believed that the health care is the right for all americans as a moral obligation. the thing that impressed me the most about him, coming out of jail many years. him and his brother are radio. i never heard this in south carolina. he said that ending the battles for the south of reconciliation,

not just a map about law, it's a moral right. that's just a morality and the law is a line he walked, really from this point to seven years. >> okay, thank you very much, the reverend jesse jackson who's so much a part of this kennedy history. the mayor of boston, as we watch by these interviews, we are watching so many of these great people coming by in the rain here from their cars right now. when we return, keith olbermann. the issue that ted kennedy fought for hard for, universal health care, where will that debate go in his absence? this is continuing coverage of ted kennedy's memorial set to begin now in 45 minutes. has gingko for memory and concentration. plus support for heart health. that's a great call. one a day men's. ♪

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welcome back do to msnbc's coverage of honoring the live of ted kennedy. we're expecting some pretty bad weather, in fact that's one reason why we're here, we're expecting a very torrential situation there tomorrow. we'll see if it developing that way. just before we came back, rachel asked a question about the staff people. one thing that senator kennedy that allowed him to be the greatest senator in the last half century. his willingness to hire stephen brier. and people like kerrey parker over the year, people that had high iqs over the years and

people who shared the credit. >> you look at the the list of the people who were on hand to at the kennedy library to greet those 50,000 people. they kept it open late for three hours. and over and over again, former staff, former staffer former staffer, former staffer. some of them went on to be supreme court justices. but the number of people he kept in his orbit long after they had been in his employ is impressive. >> there's john mccain coming in. >> the senator will speak tonight, along with from that side of the aisle senator hatch who's been described as senator kennedy's best friend to be in the senate. and senator hatch, as an example, it's not exactly a staff issue. congressman lewis coming in as well. that you could reach politics

the way we are in 2009 which is almost utter polarization, probably has been for seven years now, and yet those things, as sivivid as they are, are bei pushed aside to a great degree, certainly not as great as anything we have seen. >> jesse jackson made a very strong point there, he talked about how liberal ideas become central ideas. if you're on the wrong side of an expansion of rights, women's rites, rainfall rights, if you're on the wrong side of that, in 30 years, you voted against social security, you voted against the civil rights act, it never looks good. that's one case of why some people could be brought in to be the major -- i think it's mike

enzi may have a role here. >> mike enzi says you need 80 votes to pass health care in the senate. >> i'm still hopeful because i'm friends with allan simpson. mr. ed schultz himself, ed, your thoughts on this, it's an irish wake tonight, but it's a lot more than that based on who's showing up here. >> i would like to point to the talk radio realm of my job, which senator kennedy was very helpful, he wanted to be friends, he reached out to the progressive talkers of america, and i think that is what i'm going to remember the most about this man, is that if you knew him and you hadn't seen him for a while, you've got the kennedy bear hug. and that was a real highlight. but i want to say that in recent days on the radio, we have had grown men calling the shows crying. this man had such a tremendous

impact on the workers of america, and i think that the progressive movement of this country is now asking questions, who really picks up that torch, who's going to be the lion? who's going to be the big talker when it has to become through with the passion and the zeal and the vitality that the like movement has to have to continue forward. i know that i spoke with many labor leaders this week, jerald macatee, and they are concerned about who picks that torch up and goes the extra mile for him. one thing about senator kennedy when he was in your corner, it was unwavering, he was there for life. he was there with you on an issue, he was never questioning at all. and the impact that he had on workers in this country, when he said something, it might not be exactly what they wanted to hear, but he had such tremendous

credibility with labor. people were wondering how is this health care fight going to go? who's going to give that passionate speech? we replayed on "the ed show" and also on radio some of the conversations and some of the speeches that he gave on the senate floor when it came to the minimum wage, when it came to the congressional members taking health care but voting it down in schip. he called them out on the senate floor, that's the passion that the progressive movement is waiting to see who picks that up. this is a real void, september is going to be a very, very interesting month. >> thank you ed schultz. >> he was demonized by the right while he was alive, they campaigned for funds off of his name, yet now some of them love him. tonight's memorial of senator ted kennedy continues tonight

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this is msnbc's coverage of the celebration of life memorial service of senator kennedy will begin in about 32 minutes, los angeles side chris matthews and rachel maddow. this issue of the reaction from republicans to senator kennedy's death and even from some in the middle in the political realm, george stephanoloupos said last night, that were senator kennedy

been healthy and been involved in the negotiations, he would have been the one that said, no, let's forget the public option, we're just going to go for a bill here. i'm just wondering how revision it history is applied to somebody when their wake is not yet underway? >> i think that it is revisionist. it does sort of sound like a kindness when you talk about somebody after they have passed, to talk about them as a unifying figure, someone who was aftfabl, and by all accounts he was. i mean his accomplishments as a politician were through confrontation not compromise. when you look at him challenging jimmy carter in 1980. >> that's not compromise.

compromise is not to challenge a sitting president and come as close to toppling him for the nomination as you possibly could. that's not compromise. >> i think you have to figure it out, it's tough to do these predictions after a guy has been dead two days. but on certain issues he did compromise. he found really good ground on immigration. he had a good bill there. on patients bill of rights he had a good bill. on no child he had a big republican proposal. i think he wouldn't have given in on the idea of universal. >> we see senator dodd walking away from our cameras there, in the middle of his own health care struggle with his wife and senator dodd, probably senator kennedy's best friend, there's so many people who could have a claim to that. >> but he's the one. >> you look at the way that ted kennedy ran the campaign against mitt romney.

those ads that he ran against mitt romney could defeat romney for anything that he was running for in any jurisdiction. >> i'm very family with that debate. >> talking about you're a businessman? you bought this company, shut it down, here's all the out of work workers who tell how their lives were changed by you. people call him a lion not because he was cuddly but because he had teeth and he used them. that skill is political combat. this was not compromise. >> it also was reminiscent of what he had done with nixon's administration, and he was the one who backed up nixon. ted remembered the role that he played and his philosophy that he played when he condemn. back in 1964 when nixon was on

the ropes and he employed an employer mandate and he barged to death a national law that you must give your employees health care and teddy didn't want to go along with that. there was issues of partisanship there where he blewed it. i think he learned and the question is what lessons did he learn and when? did bill clinton learn from his mistake? did he learn from that? i think it's dynamic, we're headed towards universal coverage. it's a question of how we're going to get there and when. >> when it came down to expansion, like medicare part d. did kennedy support that? no, he did not. you could see that as some kind of incrememental it change, it turned out to do nothing for american seniors. people would have seen that as a bipartisan compromise. >> if they do cut a deal and it does have a public option.

they got to turn insurance companies into public utilities, start regulating their profits dramatically. they can't allow them to be completely cowboy on how much money they grab from this. >> of course the insurance companies responded so well to the idea of health care reform. they responded wonderfully to being nationalized. >> they're not going to like it, that's why you got to do it. >> we're joined by the professor of african-american studies at princeton university. >> what is this sort of retrofitting the man who proudly announced himself as such a liberal? what's this attempt right now to sort of bring him somewhere back into the middle by those who were so politically opposed to him? >> well, it's one of the things that in fact the gop is classic and very good at and not just the gop, but forces on the right in general. we saw and have seen over the past 40 years, a very similar

kind of reclamation of dr. martin luther king and in particularly about the content of my children's character being deployed by the right instead of the left. this notion somehow that senator kennedy was a scentrist,a he wa primarily partisan. and a legacy that after all was consistently used to beat up on other liberals and other democrats that in the context of their own election. >> the former governor of arkansas, mr. huckabee has a radio show, who said under the reform efforts what he described as senator obama's health care plan, he would have told him to go home and take pain pills and die during the last years of his life. we can talk about the inappropriateness of that in the

hours before somebody's wake. is there a psychological or political explanation to this. >> we'll see that many of us immediately upon hearing about senator kennedy's death, on the one hand felt, you know, obviously this sort of personal and national loss. but also many of us thought that in the same ways that the death of his brother president kennedy led to the possibility of the passage of the 1964 civil rights act, that was part of what allowed lbj to move that forward, that it was possible that the illness and death of senator kennedy would be a place where we could have a remembrance of why it was important to have the public option, to have full and equal health care for all americans and so i think that sort of impulse up the part of progressives to talk about how we could honor senator kennedy's memory through the passage of the bill, also ments that those on the right immediately wanted to capture that for the other side.

>> melissa harris, always as we said a pleasure, thanks for your time tonight. when we return, the civil rights legacy of ted kennedy as we look at videotape of the arrival of sergeant shriver to tonight's events. obviously in the middle. later on howard dean will join us to discuss the impact of the loss of the senator to the democratic party. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of the memorial to senator ted kennedy, set to begin in about 25 minutes. (announcer) time brings new wisdom

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the arrival to the memorial

of the senior senator from massachusetts, john kerry and his wife teresa and it is a startling cold water bucket full of reality to describe senator kerry in those terms when they had been applied so long to senator kennedy. speaker of the house pelosi has also arrived, a little bit before, moments ago, senator and mrs. kerry came in. and we are expecting vice president biden, of course 35 years a member of the senate. as we continue with our live coverage of the memorial service for senator kennedy at the jfk library in boston, let's turn to our peter alexander live outside. >> reporter: we saw more than 70 members of the kennedy clan waiting on the steps of the capitol.

tonight we saw an entire group of kennedys again just a few moments ago exiting a giant bus as they entered inside to try and celebrate the life of the patriarch of that family, the late senator. there are so many people who were meeting throughout the day members of the family, teddy kennedy iii, the grandson of the late senator, i spoke with him a little while ago and here's what he had to say. >> it's pretty cool to see how many people my grandfather had respected in a good way. it's really a nice feeling that he has done so much good. he's in a better place now, but he's gone from us. so it's good and bad. >> just 11 years old, teddy kennedy iii, he said i'm going to need this tape, i'm going to use it for my campaign.

>> the fourth generation begins under the watchful eyes of peter alexander on the steps of the white house. >> congressman jim clyburn represents south carolina's sixth congressional district, he joins us tonight from columbia, south carolina. it's always an honor to speak to you, sir, you're a hero, you've grown up and you have led the civil rights movement. the kennedy brothers, it seems like jack was almost drag gooned in this service in the early 1960s. then bobby came along and after martin luther king was killed, he got very passionate. where did he fit in all that? >> he was right there, right after 1962 is when we got into the throws of what became the 64 voting rights act. i think a lot of people don't remember, but in 1963, the manpower and the training act was a john kennedy effort.

then we got to the civil rights act, then the voting rights act, then the fair alton law, these three things, '64, '65, '68, senator ted kennedy was in the middle of all of that. and then he took on after that, health care, health disparities, we worked with him so closely on that. things like minimum wage laws, immigration, i don't know of a thing that was taking place in the congress or on the national scene of any significance for the down and out that he did not get himself involved in. >> you're watching tom brokaw arrive with his wife meredith there. mr. clyburn, the role that he played, i have always thought that the greatest accomplishment of the congress in the, well,

half century at least, was the '64 civil rights bill, ted kennedy had a role in that even as a young member? >> i think it was around two years after he got to the senate. sure, he was very much involved in that and then we had some real royal battles involving the voting rights act that came along the 65, one year later. but remember the big battle with the voting rights act had to do with renewals and every so often we had to go back and renew that act. and the last time we had the renewal, was when we had the real royal battle and ted kennedy was there on the mark and we were able to get that act renewed in a way that all of us can be pleased with. remember a lot of people don't realize that we put into the voting rights act, something called a results test under

section 2, which led to my being elected to congress and so many other african-americans in the south, we never would have gotten the congress were it not to the amendment to the voting rights act, that put in the results test, rather than the intense test. ted kennedy was in the middle of all of that. >> congressman, when was the last of those key battles in your assessment? how recently did this fight have to be fought and how recent was senator kennedy's involvement in that? >> the last time we renewed the voting rights act was a real battle because as you know, we were, especially on the house side, we were in the minority. and we had some real touchy moments when we thought that things like the section 5 which sets up what we call overviews, the review of any changes made in the law.

there was a big attempt to warren an act down by making it fly to all 450 states in the same way. so that was a real, real battle. and then of course the immigration issue two years ago, he was really, really big in that as well. so these things come about more often than people realize and those of us who are there in the congress realize how important this lion was. >> thank you so much for coming on the program tonight jim clyburn of south carolina. we were watching lauren bacall. >> and we might say devoted msnbc viewer. we can't let that pass without thanking miss bacall for that. howard dean will join us, with a

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we rejoin you with msnbc's coverage with the celebration of life memorial service for senator kennedy. let's turn now to the former governor of vermont, howard dean. governor, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks for having me on. >> would you think that senator kennedy would be happy, amused or put out that so much of the talk surrounding his concluding ceremonies to his life is devoted to the politicians of

his last of his great causes, health care reform. >> i think he would be dligtded. i think he intends to get this done, and if he has to do it from beyond the grave, it's going to get done. ted kennedy was not one to give up on anything. >> had senator kennedy been well and been in the middle of these health care negotiations he would have shown what a big negotiator he was. >> i think that's very unlikely. this is a serious cause, there's not a lot of compromise, if a compromise means a bill that won't work. ted kennedy went through this -- i've been doing this for 30 years and he was at it before i was. the first thing i did in health insurance was when i was in medical school i convinced the dean to let me come down and help health care get done. he knew better than anybody that

health care has to be done right and has to be real reform. i have to disagree with george stephanopoulus on this one, he knew where the cards are and who's going to get it down. >> ed schultz brought this up, in reference to reform and health care in general, there seems to be a question asked in ever corner, is there someone suitable to follow, not that there's another senator kennedy here, but is there somebody suitable in the sense to take on some of those responsibilities of pushing progressiveness forward? >> well, i think what happens here is that the mantle is picked up by a lot of different people. this is a time when his older brother john was assassinated in 1963, this is a time where everybody pulls together. everybody takes a little bit of that mantle. there's not going to be one person who fills senator

kennedy's shoes for a long, long time. i think this bill is going to be written in the dramatic caucus not in the congress at the end day because i don't think the republicans are interested in this bill. where we're going to miss ted kennedy is his extraordinary leadership and his extraordinary staff. i think he had one of the very best, if not the best health care staff in the entire united states senate, if not on capitol hill. i hope that stays together in some way. because they really are going to have an important input. but look, chris dodd has done a great job so far, he's not a slouch, he won't have ted kennedy to talk to as he has in the last several months, but he's done a good job and we're going to get it done. >> few for coming out with that strong statement about the need for a health care health bill. the memorial tribute to ted kennedy will be coming up at the

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tell congress not to let myths get in the way of fixing what's broken with health care. learn the facts at healthactionnow.org. moments away now from the memorial tribute to senator kennedy. it's what you do with what you got that counts, sometimes it takes longer to know what you got. before senator kennedy made history, history buzz his distraction. a got reporter roger mudd asked him why he wanted to be president. it was a good question, a big,

wide, philosophical question. any good presidential candidate ought to be able to hit it out of the ballpark. kennedy wouldn't answer it. ask him a philosophical question, and he got what mudd got, mud. but ask him about a legislative fight in the senate, that's where you saw the firepower t craft, that's why senator ted kennedy was put on this earth. i remember 1994, he month looked like he might take away ted's senate seat. then in the decisive tv debate, kennedy asked romney for the specific budget impact of a health bill. quote, i do not know the specific number romney confessed. kennedy then pounced on him. that's what you have to do with legislation, kennedy scolded his challenger, to the applause of the crude, that's what you have to do with the predecessor.