up with the reasons why the economy did not go into a depression, as the vice president said. as far as stimulus package, look at it this way, in the past six months, this economy has generated probably about $6 to $7 trillion in economic growth. we have had about $140 billion? stimulus, $140 billion verse suggestion $7 trillion. it helps on the margin, yes. but definitely, put a third behind the fed and just the natural bounceback of the economy after the intense period of fear we had earlier in the year. >> but isn't what the fed did go hand in hand with what the federal government did? >> well, yeah, it went hand in hand but one hand was quite a bit bigger than the other hand. listen -- >> in that case, doesn't the other hand still have a lot of money in store, ready to hold out and give away? >> okay. depends which hand we are talking about. as far as the federal government's hand, listen, $800 billion stimulus. we spent $140 billion. there is still a lot of spending

yet to be done. about a third of that tax cuts, a third is aid to states and sort of people unemployed and about a third is investing. i would like to have seen a bigger stimulus or more stimulus earlier when the economy was at its weakest earlier this year. >> obviously, when there is a fire, gout to worry about it first before you worry about the cinders. obviously, low interest rates and loads and loads of spending, you will see good things happen in the economy. the question is what kind of risks down the road come with it? >> there are risks. one it is a lot of money, $800 billion. before it is done, the stimulus package might be close to $1 trillion n context of tens of trillions of dollars of long-term u.s. debt, it is not a lot, but some of the stimulus money is not going to be, as he they say temporary, it is going to stay into the budget even after recession is over which means higher budget deficits going forth. that's risk for the bond market, for the solvency of the united states. so that is a huge risk. i would like to see more done as

far as the early in growth of this country, whether it's making our tax system more competitive or helping our infrastructure. >> jim, there is no such thing as a free lunch is there? jim pethikoukis, thanks juror joining us. looking a at briefing from robert gates and mcchrystal's assessment how the war is going. mcchrystal asked for a change in strategy. let's listen in. >> the president's marked strategy you not launch a new one. admiral? >> thank you, mr. sec taefrm i would just add a couple of thirds. first on process, as the secretary indicated, he has asked the chiefs and my stove review general mcchrystal's initial assessment and provide our thoughts, our advice. chief and i have already met twice in the tank this week to discuss it and we are plan agent least one more session later on. my intension is to wrap up our review by friday. our job and one we take

seriously is to provide the secretary and the president our best military advice and we are going to do that with a clear eye, not only on the needs in afghanistan, but also the needs of the force in general and on our other security commitments around the globe. second, it's clear to me that general mcchrystal has done his job as well, laying out for his chain of command the situation on the ground as he sees -- >> there you are hearing the pentagon briefing today, talking a little bit about general mcchrystal's request. nbc news has learned two components here of the assessment are the general's desire for campaign continuity and continued focus on the afghan people. we will be listening to see if the pentagon has any reaction to that pogo report about the contractors, the security guards that the embassy in kabul taking on an "animal house" type of atmosphere there if we hear them address that we will certainly get back to t. the nation's retailers are reporting a disappointing

august, store sales here down for the 12th month in a row. >> yeah, obviously, a bit of a concern but it is patchy. it is always going to be a patchy recovery, isn't it, when it comes to retailers? >> i think that is true. you are looking at same-store sales down 2.9%, less than analysts had expected, thanks in part to food and gas. but you're looking at stocks. higher today. >> modestly higher at this stage. investors are looking ahead to tomorrow's jobs report. that seems to be the big guy that we are watching here, the payroll is the mother of all things, the big potential to move the market. let's look at where we are sitting for the three indices now. dow to the upside, 25 points, nearly four-point upside for the standard & poor's and nasdaq by eight. >> we will be looking for that. boeing big news today. >> have he big news arrange ongoing and developing story about the plastic fantastic, of course. boeing deliveries and orders of its commercial jets are down. the company says deliveries dropped 22% and sales slipped

11% because airlines are canceling or postponing plans to buy new planes. another major story that we are following this hour, contessa is that officials say they have contained an 7860-acre wildfire in san bernadino county that fire forced more than 2,000 people to evacuate. >> the san bernadino fire nothing compared to the massive station fire, north of los angeles. that has grown to nearly 150,000 acres. good news here, officials say now their containment stands at 38%. nbc's michael okwu is at the command post in lakeview terrace. given a few days ago they predicted they wouldn't get the fire contained for two weeks, now looking at almost 40%. what has given them the advantage? >> reporter: well, that's great question. if you talk to firefighters about this they will say, number one, above anything else, is the fact that they have got 4700 boots on the ground. that's lot of manpower. and according to at least one fire official here, they have just about every state of the

union represented on some level fighting the station fire. now, the fact this they have been able to get those crews in is key, because they have been able to get specialized hand crews up in some of those remote canyon areas were this fire was burping completely out of control and they have been able to create some fire breaks. now, also as we have been going on in the days here, they have gotten some more air support. i spoke just a moment ago to a fire official, wanted to make sure we get these numbers right, extraordinary numbers. bear with me on them. 18,000 gallons of retardant have been dropped by the helicopters. in addition to that 760,000 gallons dropped by the fixed-winged aircraft that sounds like a lot of gobbledygook to people that don't cover these fires but that's key what they are saying basically is they have dropped as much retardant on this as some air tanker bases around the country would drop on a -- during the entire fire season. that's on one single fire. so, when you combine that with

the fact that they have been helped by the humidity, it is a little less dry, yeah, they are dealing with three years of drought, so, it's relatively undry, i should say in the last couple of days but also, they haven't had the winds that were predicted in the last couple of days. those have all conspired to help the firefighters get a hand only this thing. >> thank goodness for that thank you very much for the report. coming up, a new report, how many times the s.e.c. had the chance to catch billionaire swindler bernie madoff and blew it through their own incompetence. has anything changed that will prevent another bernie madoff from slipping through their fingers? also ahead, the michael jackson memorial cost, california, millions of dollars who pays for that? who picks up the tab? tonight's ceremony at forest lawn cemetery. and new insights on senator kennedy's feelings on chappaquiddick in his auto biography. we will have that ahead on "it's the economy" on msnbc. i never thought i would have a heart attack,

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a new report paints a startling report of incompetence at the security and exchange commission when it comes to the botched investigation of ponzi schemer, bernie madoff. >> quite incredible isn't it? s.e.c. inspector general says red flags went up 16 years ago and even when presented with specific details of the fraud, investigators blew it. with us now is zachary goldfarb, financial reporter for the "washington post." i'm sure there are lots of very angry people what do we know as to whether or not this was an inside job, was it just complete incompetence, was it a team that was inexperienced? what can we put our finger on here? >> well, the inspector general of the s.e.c. found that there wasn't improprieties involving s.e.c. officials, where they did

something with an inappropriate relationship with madoff or a member of the madoff family, but what the inspector general did find was that the s.e.c. just didn't have an internal culture or internal bureaucracy set up to try to find this kind of fraud. the inspector general found that investigators were inexperienced, didn't understand the math involved in a fraud like this and, in fact, didn't even take the most basic steps necessary to verify that madoff was doing what he claimed he was doing. madoff himself told the inspector general that he was astonished the fraud wasn't uncovered years ago. >> you said he thought the game was over when he gave them his account number and turns out the s.e.c. inspectors didn't even go look at the account. he said if they had just gone in and looked at the account, the gig would have been up. i don't know whether i'm more flabbergasted that there are -- you know, honestly it would have almost been better had it been an inside job and somebody was getting kick backs to turn the other way to find out your s.e.c. investigators are

ignorant. >> right. so, it's very baffling why over so long a period, 16 years and five different examinations, different people from different parts of the s.e.c. went into madoff's firm and couldn't find a fraud. that was, you know, more or less hiding in plain sight. so while the new chairman of the s.e.c., mary shapiro, has introduced a number of policy changes and reforms to try to avoid this ever happening again, you have to wonder if there are cultural problems or other kinds of more fundamental problems that are at the heart of this kind of breakdown. >> so essentially we need something more than just more legislation with better oversight? >> you clearly need better regulation. you need more oversight. but you also have to figure out how to hire the right kinds of people, how to sort the millions of tips and complaints the s.e.c. gets each year. there are very fundamental questions about how you tackle something as big as wall street and the s.e.c., for its part, is woefully underfunded, doesn't have enough resources to deal

and triage all the concerns it gets from public each year. but what was so concerning about this case, the madoff case, is the s.e.c. had a road map to what was wrong and couldn't find t. >> zachary, thank you very much. i tell you, until they turn things around, it looks like it is open season on anybody who wants to take american investors for a ride because the people who are supposed to be keeping it in check aren't smart enough or aren't diligent enough to track it down. >> does really beg the question how many other ponzi schemers are out there getting away with it, because there aren't any steps being taken. anyway, work at the post office is a little less uncertain today. now, according to the "washington post," the u.s. postal service has dropped plans to close 200 facilities. that still leaves 213 branchs on the chopping block. >> new information from the cdc on swine flu. director thomas freeden says 36 american children have died from the virus and two-thirds of those kids had underlying illnesses or disabilities that put them at greater risk. as for the virus, dr. freeden

says it has not changed or become deadlier, a vaccine still expected no earlier than next month. today, one of the manufacturers of the vaccine says just one dose may be enough, maybe folks wouldn't have to have two doses as first reported. michael jackson will be laid to rest tonight in glendale, california. preparations were already in place in the wee hours of the morning. roadblocks set up outside forest lawn cemetery. >> and also, a sign of a nearby floral mart with a message for michael. msnbc.com's courtney hazlitt is outside the funeral home and we understand you have news on a pretty big bill the jackson family has just paid? >> reporter: well, as we know from following the jacksons for not just the last few months but many years, they don't do anything the cheapest way possible. $800,000 budgeted for the entire

prayer, we have been talking how much the city of los angeles has been had to foot for the public memorial a few weeks back. i was speaking to one of the police officers here and he said $150,000 has been earmarked to go to the glendale police department. whether they use that $150,000 altogether remains to be seen. right now, they are up at $120,000. what does that go to? it goes to all the extra police officers they have. the security here is so tight, they actually are putting plain clothes police officers along the grounds this evening to make sure that nobody gets inside forest lawn who shouldn't be there, too. >> what is the media coverage like? are we seeing helicopters in the air? the report ers in the area have had their hands full, the wild fires are there. is this getting less attention than some of the other michael jackson events? >> it's funny, after looking around here, just in the last few hours has been a tremendous amount more media. and international media, too. denmark, sweden, a number of other foreign countries are here

for the burial. ironically no fans have showed up yet. that is supposed to change, the police department saying they do expect a number of fans, even though you really can't get anywhere near forest lawn behind me. they are making sure here that every be can be accommodated and it is going to be interesting to see as the day goes on who is going to turn out. we saw with the public memorial, even though you couldn't get anywhere near the staples center, people still did show up just to be part of it. >> courtney, thank you. nice to see you. coming up, the family of jaycee lee dugard speaks out the first time 18 years after the time their child disappeared. later on, new jobless claims out today show a slight dip. what will tomorrow's august unemployment numbers show for the nation as a whole? do stay tuned. you are watching "it's the economy" only on msnbc. if you've had a heart attack

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get a check of the markets right now. on this thursday, 22 minutes past the hour, dow jones industrials barely up here, almost 5 points. s & p up 1.75 and the nasdaq up almost 4. take what we can get. >> yeah. well, police are investigating a new jersey robery notable for its speed. in lows than 30 seconds, thieves took off with $50,000 worth of loot from a new jersey apple store. one of the gangs threw a brick through the store res window and everyone moved in and grabbed as much as they can carry. it they got away with 23 mack books 1rk 4 i phones and nine ipod touches. >> with the iphones, they have gps trackers, they can locate them. >> thiefs that weren't that clever. >> we will see. maybe if they don't turn them on, doesn't matter. learning more about the reunion between jaycee doug guard and her family a short time ago, jaycee's aunts made the first public comment since

dugard was found. tina dugard says jaycee is an amazing woman who raised two wonderful daughters. >> they are clever, articulate, curious girls who have a bright future ahead of them. although they have no formal education, they are certainly educated. jaycee did a truly amazing job with the limited resources and education that she herself had. and we are so proud of her. >> nbc's chris jansing joins me now. did her aunt give any details about what that life must be like, especially for jaycee's daughters, who never knew that their mother had been kidnapped nor rained? >> contessa, she spent five days with her niece and two great nieces. one of the things she said, she didn't want to talk about that time and they didn't discuss it, but she could hardly keep from being -- from smiling. could you tell the joy in everything she had to say about the reunion the family had and how unexpected it was after all

these years, that they could come together again. let me play for you another little clip of what tina dugard had to say about the family coming together. >> jaycee and her daughters are with her mom and younger sister in a secluded place reconnecting. i was with them until recently. we spent timesharing memories and stories and getting to know each other again. jaycee remembers all of us. she is especially enjoying getting to know her little sister, who was just a baby when jaycee was taken. >> that's 19-year-old shana. and the two daughters that the grandma is just meeting, star let, 15, and angel, 11, are described as very intelligent, even though they never went to school. she says they definitely were educated, they were on the internet. she talks about to a local newspaper how they went outside one night and were able to identify some constellations. tina dugard says terry who is jaycee's mom, she has moments of

spontaneous joy this is a wonderful quote. we will be talking and she will just burst into happy tears with a big smile on her face you can imagine what that's like for that family. >> so long coming though, such delayed gratification there, but better now, better now than never. chris, thanks. as ted kennedy battled brain cancer, he worked relentlessly on his memoirs. >> the first excerpts are now being released answer opens up about the fear he felt following the assassination of his brothers. "as i walked in the st. patrick's day in lawrence in march of 1969, a burst of popping firecrackers caused me to freeze in my tracks and prepare to dive to the pavement. i stayed upright by an act of will." >> the 511-page book, five pages tells the story of what happened in july, 1969, when he drove his car off a bridge. "that night on chappaquiddick island ended in a horrible tragedy that haunts me every day of my life." he ended speculation he was

romantically involved with mary joe kopechne died in that accident. "true compass" comes out september 14th. even school sports are on the chopping block. ahead, we talk to a high school student who is fatesed with a critical decision. plus, hopes are dashed that sales will boost profits at the nation's retailers. what it all means coming up. later, new numbers show a shift in who makes up america's workforce. this is "it's the economy" on msnbc. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast,

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benefits totalled 6 million, up 92,000. but that is only part of the story. from state to state, the unemployment picture is as different as the terrain. bertha comes is looking at two states with two very different stories. what did you find? >> reporter: it really varies quite a lot, mandy, you know, the saying when it comes to real estate it is local, politics is local. the economy, it is really the same picture as well. nationally, the unemployment rate is at about 9.5%. we have got a number of states, 16 states, that are above that and most of those are double-digit unemployment. among them, california. the state has just reported numbers for july. so, the july numbers in california, the biggest job losses, lost 37,000 jobs in july. that puts their unemployment rate right up near 12%. that's just behind michigan, which has the worst at 17%.

and they also saw 5,000 -- 5% loss of jobs year-over-year. the absolute numbers in california are staggering. depending on which survey for employment you look at, they lost between 760,000 and 800,000 jobs within the last year. a lot of those, real estate-related, construction was one of the biggest industries hit, down nearly 20%. when you look at that absolute number that is just staggering. that is as much as the population of north dakota, which happens to be the only state in the nation that actually saw a year-over-year growth in employment. now, north dakota is a big state with a small population about 800,000 or so, but they actually had the lowest unhe employment rate in the country, just over 4%. while they lost some jobs last month, in july, they actually did see year-over-year growth in employment, up 1%.

part of the reason, they have bet big on energy. coal mining has come back, because of the demand for coal. mining jobs up are up 0% year-over-year. belt a lot on wind, one of the areas they say a decline in production of wind -- wind energy products, but they are expecting that that could bounce up if some of the stimulus money starts to kick in in the energy sector. so it is a very different picture and a lot of the issue, guys, really has to do with real estate. california, ground zero for the mortgage bust. places like north dakota sat that out. not feeling the busts as badly. >> seems like all states are not created equal. thank you very much for the update. a horrible display here of humanity at a new jersey town hall. audience members heckled and jeered a woman in a wheelchair as she tried to tell her story of her own struggle with the health care system. wait until you hear this. >> i live in fear every day that

i will lose my home, not because i took on some irresponsible mortgage. no, i worked hard my whole life to pay for one of my medications. it is $389 every two weeks. >> what's your question? >> and i'm afraid i might not be able to afford my property taxes and i will lose my home. >> the woman speaking says she has two incurable diseases when asked why he heckled her, one man says i didn't come here to listen to people's opinions, my rights are no less important than a woman in a wheelchair. well, thanks for clarifying that. >> pretty harsh, huh? president obama is set to address congress. is any hope of a health care compromise hits the stretch. >> when lawmakers come back to work, they have one week to strike a deal. mike joins us from the white house. here is the thing, the president told this gang of six in the senate this bipartisan group, i want this deal done by, what, september 15th? >> that is correct.

>> but he is giving a speech before that so is the president giving up? nch>> i don't think so. his speech is an expression of cope hope to coin a phrase. september 15th, max baucus said and the white house concurs can, back cause leads the gang of six negotiations going on behind doors, three republicans, three democrats come up with a compromise. apparent by september 15th we are not going to get republican support, we might have to go our own way and that involves this nuclear option of reconciliation, only need 50 votes to pass it in the senate. everybody seems to think that is bad idea, the far left says it is about time, let's start flexing our muscles. david axelrod, the president's counselor here at the white house, says we were in the eight orth ninth inning of this debate, contessa, and want to get something passed in congress this fall. appears they are bringing the president as a closer wednesday night. the only trouble with that anal jury in bail, the closer comes

into the game when you are ahead to preserve the lead to close out the game. by no estimation are they ahead in this debate. they have lost a lot of ground over august and one of the reasons the president is going to be coming in and making this big deal dramatic speech next wednesday night. >> mike vac care rah at the white house, nice to see you. >> all right. most students are going deep near debt to pay for their college education. new numbers show two-thirds of students are borrowing to pay for college. the average debt load is more than $23,000. and now, there are growing concerns that the ripple effects of all that debt could be around for a long time, as students put off buying homes, marriage and even having children. >> school budgets are stretched to limit and forced administrators make deep cuts. >> yeah, indeed. on the chopping block this year, guess what, sports. and not talking about small cuts either. one ohio school, the entire sports program is actually being cut. we have got andy bennett, a 16-year-old student at grove city high school, also jill

royer is a parent in the district and co-chair of the committee in favor of raising property taxes to bring back school sports. thank you both for joining us today. andy plerkts get to you first of all. how do you feel about this? >> i'm not very happy about it us not having sports, but whatever the people want, i have to deal with. but i'm just trying to get by and make a better future for myself. >> here is one thing i have to ask you, andy, a lot of people, a lot of high school kids play sports or join latin club or in the marching band and then they hope to help that be a launching pad to a launching career, in other words get a scholarship to play sports. if you take out all those extracurricular activities, doesn't it hurt your chances in college? >> i think that it does, but as long as you try to stay involved

and you find different activities to do. like, i'm training for a marathon and some of my friend he is and i, we started a running club that way we can continue playing sports, but overall, i think that it does actually hurt your chances of getting into a good colleges. >> jill, what's your side on this? >> well, the cuts not only include the loss of all athletics but all ext extracurricul extracurriculars, matching bands, high school bussing elect nated and walks through kindergartener through eighth grade. the cuts to sports wasn't def vat statesing, but that wasn't all of it. >> they say they will save $275 million with the cuts but when you say bussing was cut, are you saying to get to and from school, bugs was cut? >> all high school bugs was eliminated at the same time that sports were eliminated, yes. >> how do students get back and forth? >> um, parents drive them and students walk. and some people have arranged

carpools. >> jill, can i ask you what your stance is on the rather unpopular proposal to hike property taxes but is this a way if they did hike taxes and get revenue that way, there might be a way of bringing back the sports? it would be possible. there is a ballot issue this november that if it passes, it would enable the school district to bring back those extra kur rick cue lars and bussing. >> how likely is it will pass? >> we have had a ballot issue up the last three elections november, may and most recently august and they all failed but the margin in may was very close. out of 32,000 votes, we were defeated by less than 500 votes. so i think we have a very good chance. people see the importance of these program and willing to support it. >> what about parents paying? what if you instituted something where another -- and this happened, in fact in my own high school, they went through difficult budget constraints. >> pay to play situation. >> you wanted to play football, 000 come up with a fee and there was financial aid for families who made less than a certain

amount. what's your take on that, jill? >> actually, the first three ballot issues i spoke of didn't include a package like that. what they have done when they go back to the ballots this november, they have reduced the amount they have asking for and offered to institute a pay to participate program to offset some of that. >> andy, how would you feel about a pay for playing kind of situation? would you or your family be willing to do that? >> we would be definitely following do pay-to-play, just as long as we are able to have sports and club and everything that's just there to help advance beyonded academic aspect of school. >> andy, we wish you the best of luck. good luck with the marathon and i hope that works out for you. seems like that is something admission officers would lack on kindly as well. jill, thanks for giving us your perspective as well. appreciate that. >> thank you for having it. more to come including the latest at the retail sales numbers, how stores are doing. what does that mean for the hope of an economic upturn? >> certainly trying to do my bit

for the retail economy. plus we take knew orbit as astronauts on board the international space station are keeping their heads down and their eyes open. find out why, coming up ahead on "it's the economy" only on msnbc. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates, apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button.

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to schedule your free hearing test or for a free information kit with complete details about hearing loss and how we can help you. call 1-800-336-4990 to take one of these easy steps toward better hearing. that's 1-800-336-4990 call now! the back-to-school rush, kind of more of a trickle at many of the nation's retailers. >> sales fell the 12th month in a row in august, down this time almost 3 3%. teen retailer abercrombie & fitch the hardest hit, off 29% since this time last year the numbers not as bad as expected that is what the market focuses on to. rebecca jarvis has the latest on that shot from retail sales. >> reporter: what we are looking at is a lot of retainers are stronger and that is because

half ended up beating what wall street was anticipating. expectations so low, retailers managed to beat them. we saw the discounters were the place a lot of people went to back-to-school shopping, bought food at the likes of bj's, target and costco and back-to-school supply there is, weren't spending as much money as many anticipated at the department stores like the macys, jc penneys of the world, weaker than many had expected. there is another key component to this question and that is labor day. labor day came a lot later this year. as a result of that school is starting later and you still have a couple days in the month of september where people could be out shopping. those months, those days, rather, aren't encompassed in these august same-store sales data we are seeing today. there are some who say, i spoke to monica novotny of this said i haven't gone out and purchased anything for my son's return to school, there are others like that as well. some people will be spending

those last dollars in these next couple of days and that could be a boone for some of the september data. >> if you combine labor day sales with back-to-school sales, maybe there are deeper discounts like being out shopping this weekend. >> exactly. 'cause you bring up a great point. as consumers, we are so used to if you wait till the last minute, you get the best deal what we saw last year throughout holiday season. a lot of folks thinking that way as well. but what the retailers have tried to do a better job of this year is that they have tried to put those discounts and those price points thought so that consumers will be more enticed. what you will notice, if you go to the stores, is that prices are actually starting out lower as opposed to having to cult them back 70% like we saw last year. >> now we are in the month of september, i imagine the comparisons are going to get easier and easier this time last year, of course, this was the month we saw the demise of lehman's a lot of consumers snapped their wallets shut. >> a good point, mandy. everything, it was like a disaster, consumers really

pulled back, it was a very severe impact last september, last october, all the way through holiday sales. so, when we start getting into these months, the rest of september, october, then november, december with the holiday sales, when we compare them to what happened last year, things, salt analysts, could be looking very good on that road to basis. >> rebecca, thank you very much. >> thanks. evidence the economy is causing not only financial but psychological stressors, especially for those out of work. researchers at rutgers university say they found many americans say the recession has dramatized them. two out of three report being depressed. it is depressing to be out of work it really plays with your self-confidence. nasa says tonight's shuttle space walk is on even though the astronauts may have to weave and dodge a little bit. apparently there is a huge piece of space junk out there. >> at any time, you might actually notice there are about 19,000 pieces of debris floating around the heavens but right

now, nasa is focusing on just one, a 200-square foot piece of an old rocket that could pass within feet of the international space station. >> jay barberry is at a cape can and a half ran. 200 scare feet, the size of some manhattan apartments, jay. it is, contessa, but said now they are going to try to move the space station and soyuz space station docked with it because they think it will miss by seven miles. the problem, as i was talking to my good friend, gene mccall, the princeton physicist and just retired as the chief scientist in the air force, he says they don't really know accurately how farther away and the biggest problem would be if they decided to move the station they might move it in the wrong direction. >> jay, i don't want to tempt fate here but what if it does hit? how well protected is the space station against this kind of attack, if you like, from debris?

>> it all depends on whether or not it is a glancing blow if it is cross-orbit, they are travel agent 17,300 miles an hour this should be kind of glancing across, traveling the same way. part of the station off do no great damage if is a head-on commission. >> if they have a margin of error of seven miles, does seem likely they will be able to avoid that a lot of space junk out there people should clean up after themselves, jay. >> 190,000 pieces out there. >> jay, thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, women taking over after decades of being outnumbered in the workplace. finally, we are out to kick some -- >> proverbial. >> some proverbial butt. unintended consequence of the action. we will explain all that ahead on "it's the economy." ♪ need a lift? hey buddy, i appreciate the ride, you know. no problem. ♪

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one big side effect of the recession, america's work force is getting grayer. a new research study finds 40% of older workers can't afford to leave their jobs because their 401(k)s are almost gone. at the same time, 40% of 16 to 24-year-olds say they can't get hired. >> not enough jobs. >> not enough jobs. one little interesting factoid it seems women have come out stronger that the recession. >> more men lost their jobs, now women are on the verge of outnumbering men in the workforce for the first time ever. let's bring in heidi hartman, she is a president with the institute for women's policy research. why have women seen more of an advantage when it comes to layoffs? >> well in particular they work in the jobs that are still here. they are working in education, health care, government, and those sectors just haven't had the heavy layoffs that construction and manufacturing have had in this recession. >> how much does payroll come into play? because if you have two people doing the same job but one of

them is earning less, in some cases, far less, isn't that the person that you keep in a layoff? >> well, you know, that is an interesting hypothesis, but economists haven't actually been able to prove that women are gaining at the expense of men because they have lower salaries. actually, it is more really about where they tend to be located in the labor market. women simply in the more stable sectors, men are in the less stable sectors. >> yeah, i definitely read that it seems that women are earning about on average, 77% less than most men out there. nonetheless, the question i have for you, heidi, has been a long slog to get to this stage, but will to be reversed once the economy picks up steam again? >> well, yes. i do think that men will revert to being the majority of workers. let's face it women are still doing more of the family care, more of them are work part time, more of them take a few years off too raise children than men do. and once those industries recover or if there -- if we

have trouble with a long-term recovery of those industries, the men will start moving where the jobs are. >> okay, so, imagine this if women -- if you're seeing, it's almost 4.75 million jobs lost for men, but only 1.66 million jobs lost for women, if men are gone and women have the opportunity to be promoted and the men get accustomed to, i don't know, taking care of the kids and cleaning the toilets at home and doing things, so maybe then what happens is you see the whole culture change it is not abnormal to see half and half in the workplace? >> exactly. i think one good thing about this tipping that we are anticipating some time in the next couple of months, it does make people take notice,s i specially policymakers here in washington, d.c. i would like to see a lot more case family leave, a lot more subsidized child care, because i would like to see it be easier for parents to combine work and family. it is pretty hard now. >> s. >> heidi, thank you very much. >> my old hypothesis that men

might get used to doing, taking a more active role at home, other studies says, guys, i will be a stay at home dad, out of work anyway. >> after one week, get me back to the office. >> their version of taking care with the children is being in the same room with the child while they watch tv, play video games, screw around on the computer what ever it is they are doing, if the child is there with them that counts as child care. >> moms do that as well? >> no, moms would never do that no comment. that is it for this edition of "it's the economy." >> i'm contessa brewer. mandy, thanks for being here today. >> thanks for having me. also, president obama gets ready to give his prime time address to congress on health care, is he staking his presidency on one issue? new insight into the life with jaycee dugard and what life was like for the young woman on her 18 years in captivity. this is msnbc. (announcer) before they give you the lowest price,

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i think the prospects of success are high. we are going to get something substantial. it's going to be an awful lot of screaming and hollering before we get there. >> let's make a deal. the white house working on a health care compromise that would trigger the public option, if insurance companies don't mend their ways. would it work? will it satisfy the left and why it could all depend on a single republican senator. child's play. why are some conservatives so angry about president obama addressing the nation's school kids? do they really think he is trying to "indock crin nate our children?" new excerpts from ted kennedy's upcoming memoir over his remorse over chappaquiddick. plus, coming home. wildfire victims returning to find what is left of their homes as firefighters race to contain

one of the largest blazes in california history. and the washington redskins are suing fans who lost their jobs and cannot afford to keep their season tickets. it's today's crossing the line. good afternoon, everybody, good afternoon, tamryn, i'm david shuster live in washington. >> i'm tamryn hall, live in new york. the big picture right now, president obama's big gamble on health care. with just six days until president obama addresses congress can and the nation, there's news today that the white house is trying to reach a compromise with republican senator, olympia snowe. the president is taking the historic step of addressing a joint session of congress next wednesday and it is a speech that could help define his presidency, depending upon what happens with his health care ledge slachlgs the last time the president addressed a joint session of congress that was not a state of the union address or the traditional first address was pot george w. bush on september 20, 2001, that of course being just days after the 9/11 terror attacks. and vice president joe biden saying this morning that he