smith from new jersey will be here to discuss what they want to hear from the president. also, we have a bootleg copy of ted kennedy's memoir. his words are far more personal, far more candid and more confessional if you will than we've heard from him over the years, and didn't shy away from the low points in his life. it's an impressive book. it includes discussions about chappaquiddick and the tragedies of his brother's assassination. whether he get to all of that and revelations with the kennedy biography here tonight. speaking of ted kennedy, massachusetts attorney general martha coakley is the first person to jump into the race to fill kennedy's seat. she will be here tonight to answer the kind of questions, "hardball" questions, a senator has to answer. and finally, who's the hollywood celebrity people would most like to see in the congress? interesting results coming your way tonight on "hardball." that is in the side show. let's start with attacks on president obama's speech. next week the school children. jim greer is the chairman of the republican party in florida. he joins us right now. mr. greer, thanks for coming on. you have put out a pretty strong statement the other day.

you said the president, you referred to him as the pied piper obama. pied piper is the guy who took children away and they were never seen again. is that what you think, really? >> i don't want him to take children away but i don't want him to take their minds away either to push his agenda. i will tell you, chris, as a parent, i want to know what my kids are going to be taught, what they're going to be exposed to in the school system. and when i saw and heard about this speech and saw the lesson plans that the white house was preparing that talked about, you know, what can you say good about president obama's initiatives, new ideas, things of that nature, that concerned me as a parent, as an american, and before anybody talks to my children from a political perspective, i want to know what they have to say. >> well, according to the white house, and then we can argue about this, you may believe they're dishonest, but they put out a statement, the white house, saying first of all, the president's entire speech will be made public next monday. and any teacher who doesn't want his or her students to hear it won't have to hear it. number two, it's going to deal

with the importance of taking personal responsibility for your success in school. that strikes me as kind of a bill cosby conservative, get your act together speech. it doesn't sound like what you would call liberal propaganda, does it? does that sound like liberal propaganda to you? that's what the speech is going to be about. >> chris, well that -- how do we know that until they decided to tell us? >> what do you think it's about something else? >> up until yesterday the talking points that teachers were given across this country dealt with writing a letter, how can i help president obama -- >> yeah, i know, but there wasn't anything in there about health care. there wasn't anything in there about health care or all of the other stuff. >> well, last night they scrambled, they scrambled after parents across this country became concerned and they changed their website. they took all of that information out. it's no longer out there. and now they've decided they are going to release the text where yesterday they were saying they weren't. >> okay. >> i think this is good but i think it did, chris, substantiate my concern and

parents' concerns that president obama may go into the policy discussion areas and that's not what children should hear when they go to school. >> i agree with you. the question is were you right in assuming he was going to use this as a pulpit to push his politics? i agree with you he shouldn't do it with students, and i also agree with you whatever person -- i'm not going to use an adjective -- at the education department that said we're going to ask the students to help figure out how they can help the president doesn't sound right to me. but here's my point. i think if he's going to talk about how to get kids to take personal responsibility about staying in school and doing their homework. here's what he said to the naacp. i was so impressed with it. if this is what he's going to talk about, i think even you would agree, it's a good lesson. here it is. >> we got to say to our children, yes, if you're african-american, the odds of growing up amid crime and gangs are higher. yes, if you live in a poor neighborhood, you will face challenges that somebody in a wealthy suburb does not have to face. but that's not a reason to get

bad grades. that's not a reason to cut class. that's not a reason to give up on your education and drop out of school. no one has written your destiny for you. your destiny is in your hands. you cannot forget that. >> mr. greer, that strikes me as kick-ass as bill cosby is. get off your butt, do your job and stop complaining. that doesn't strike me as what you call liberal lies or propaganda. it doesn't. >> listen, i think the president should have an opportunity to motivate children to encourage them to stay in school, but this president has been aggressive and very vocal on his vision of america, his vision of america where government does everything for us. >> i -- do you think -- you don't have any evidence -- >> i want to make sure that's not what he's going to say. >> when they put out there's no evidence he's going to do it. >> when they put out teaching plans, chris, they put out teaching plans with things in it that talk about how can i help

president obama? the only way you can help president obama is to promote his liberal agenda. >> fair enough. i agree with you. >> when it comes to my kids, i want them to go through the parents first. >> that was a line -- that was a boneheaded line that some bureaucrat put in there and i can't believe it wasn't caught by some politically smart person because it's directly aimed at you, so you can beat the hell out of them with it. fair enough, that's politics. you don't have a problem with presidents addressing students, though, do you, per se? >> no, not at all. as long as they don't talk about public policy. >> let me ask you about the president. do you have a problem -- i want to know how far your party is down there, do you have a problem with his legitimacy as president? >> no, not at all. i think florida respects -- floridians respect the office of the presidency. i think, you know, florida does things a little differently under charlie crist, where our government is problem-solvers and i think at the end of the day, we're all americans, but there's a difference in philosophy certainly in florida. we believe in less government,

less taxes, more freedom. and when you look at president obama's vision, he believes in more government, more government, and more government. >> you know what, you sound like a reasonable person. did you write this statement? this statement said he's going to be a pied piper and whether he takes our kids away, we'll never see him again. you talk about liberal lies. you have lines in here like, this is propaganda, did you write this or some staffer of yours? i think you have to be accountable for your staffers, too. did you really write this yourself with a typewriter? >> i think everybody should be accountable. >> did you write this with a typewriter? i think you're very impressive on the air. did you write this yourself or did some staffer write it? >> i had a lot to say about what was in it and i approved it ultimately so it's my statement. >> great. thank you very much. you're nice to come on. thank you very much, mr. greer. your first name is -- >> jim. >> jim greer. and by the way, i agree with you about charlie crist. i think he's hell of a public servant. i dare say he's a moderate republican but that would probably get him in trouble down

there. >> he's a good republican. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight, mr. greer, mr. jim greer. we're going to be right back with more "hardball" tonight. s ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." president obama's going to speak to the nation and to the united states congress in joint session next wednesday night in prime time. his topic, health care. today president -- biden, vice president biden, offered this preview of the coming speech. >> regard to the question of whether or not or what the health care system's going to look like that we're going to get, stay tuned for wednesday. one thing i've learned, don't step on your boss' lines.

there's going to be a major speech laid out in understandable, clear terms what our administration wants to happen with regard to health care and what we're going to push for. specifically, it's going to be an awful lot of screaming and hollering before we get there, but i believe we're going to get there. >> will the president offer understandable, clear terms to shift the health care debate back in his favor? can president obama unite enough democrats to support what he wants? with us now, democratic congresswoman jan schakowsky of illinois and republican congressman chris smith of new jersey. you two are very civilized people. i'm looking forward to a very civilized discussion. although, chris smith, you're going to vote against it no matter what this guy puts forward. there's not a chance in a zillion you will vote for this guy's bill. but let's talk about the substance. ms. schakowsky, congresswoman, do you think that you can possibly vote for a bill that comes back from house senate conference, a compromise, that included some other way to

monitor, regulate tax control the insurance industry, to keep them honest in offering accessible, affordable health care without having a public option? is there any other way to bring the insurance companies into line with the public interest, any other way to do it? >> i'm one of many democrats in the house who believes that in order to really break the stranglehold that the insurance industry has had on our health care denying coverage, denying care, that the best way to do it is to have a public option and it would also control costs. i believe at the end of the day, chris, that because it's the best way, not ideal logically or politically, but it's the best way, that we're going to have that at the end of the day. >> the problem, congresswoman, you're a conservative republican from the northeast. you're not that conservative. but do you think that a public option ends up being single payer eventually? >> i think it's inevitable. many people, including barack obama and others have said, we may not get there right way but we are on a mission to get there over -- >> when did he say that?

>> i watched it on youtube. >> a while ago. >> it was a speech he made. jan has suggested that the -- >> do you think barack obama is a secret believer in single payer? >> i think he's put it in plain view. people have not focused upon it. and i think what's going to happen this coming week, frankly, all that has happened so far in the house and the senate -- >> so you think the secret national health care policy? >> not secret. he's said so much on numerous occasions. >> congressman, are you ideally suited -- are you secretly a believer in national health care where the government basically runs the national health care system and there's no insurance companies involved? is that your ideal? >> well, that -- >> is it? >> that is irrelevant. >> is that your ideal, though? it's not irrelevant because i'm asking. is that your ideal? >> i think a single payer would be a good idea but that's not where we're going and that's not what the president wants to do,

and that is not what this is going to lead to. if the insurance companies are willing to change their ways, they are willing to compete. they will be able to survive just fine. they may not make so many -- such high profits. the ceos may have to cut back by a few million dollars but i think they will absolutely be able to compete and lots of people will continue to choose them. >> you know, the polling shows, despite the president's not great handling of this, to put it lightly. he hasn't been clear. he hasn't been strong. he hasn't made it clear what he thinks the country needs since the election, but the polling still shows an overwhelming percentage of american people don't like the way things are right now, they want a national health care plan to fix the problems of portability, pre-existing conditions. and they want the people who aren't covered covered. the question is are we better off, congressman smith, are the republicans believing the country's going to be satisfied with a complete blowout here? in other words, come christmas time, thanksgiving, nothing gets done. the president goes down in defeat like hillary and bill clinton did, is that good for the country, total defeat of the democrats, is it?

>> we need to have a bipartisan plan. >> is that good for the country? >> that is a bad plan, if that is the outcome. we need a good plan. jan schakowsky said on april 18th, i watched her speech, a man told her the public option puts private insurance out of business. she goes, he was right. there's no doubt -- >> is that what you said, congresswoman? did you say it's good the public option puts the private out of business? >> no. actually, the man next to me said that it may be hard to compete. that is not what that gentleman said. and that is not what i believe. >> watch youtube. >> look, i didn't take an oath to protect the profits of the insurance industry. i think we have set up a system where they can compete if they want to. and they don't have to go out of business. but they are going to have to change their ways. they have a stranglehold right now and millions of people left out of the system because of them. >> chris, what we need now, barack obama will come in as if he's been apart from this process. nothing can be further from the truth. we know rahm emanuel and his

whole white house has been engaged. >> you think rahm emanuel has been advocating a particular plan? >> oh, i think the intricacies of this, of course he's been. this has not happened in a vacuum. >> here's my option. i want to ask you, congresswoman schakowsky, you vote in the house, very impressive member. i want to ask you, if you had to choose in the end between a bill and no bill, what's better? >> i don't think i have to choose but i do believe we will have a bill. don't underestimate barack obama. he may be reaching out to the republicans but he has a steely spine. we're going to get a bill that's going to be a good bill, and i think with a public option. >> will the house pass a bill before the senate does, will the house pass a bill before the president says he's for a public option? what do you folks need to pass a bill with your majority in the house? what do you need to say to get it passed? >> i think as nancy pelosi said, that we're going to pass a bill and it's going to have a public option, and i think it would be good for the momentum of the

whole bill for us to pass it right away. as soon as we can. >> in other words, your party not saying in the house, madam speaker's is not saying, wait until the senate acts. you're willing to act first? >> that's my thought. i believe that's true, yes. >> okay, thank you. let me go to you. >> thank you, chris. first of all, americans are awakening to what this bill will actually do. they will be forced to become part of health care. they have to do it or else they get in with a 2% tax. >> i support that. >> i don't. >> i think everyone ought to be responsible for health care. >> will be forced -- it's all about force, force this, force that. >> we have to have car insurance to drive on the highway. i can't get on the jersey turnpike -- i can't get on the jersey turnpike without insurance. >> you're asking questions. i'm trying to answer. the health care advisory committee will say what the parameters for health care are. rationing is a very real concern. factcheck.org found that the president was mistaken -- hopefully he wasn't deceiving by design, but he was mistaken when he said abortion will not be

covered. it is covered in both the premiums that will be paid when people get these affordability credits or premium subsidies and it will be in the public option as well. >> just not true. >> check fastcheck.org. they are a nonpartisan -- >> do you argue, ms. schakowsky, congresswoman, that abortion services will not be subsidized in any way by this bill? will not be subsidized? >> that's exactly right. government funds, taxpayer dollars, will not go to fund abortions. it will all be private dollars. >> that's not true. >> you guys, men and women on the republican side and you have a right to your conservative views, it's part of the american debate. every time the democrats move to do something on health care, you say there's a better alternative, republican alternative. you haven't done anything since abe lincoln to fix health care and now you say you're going to do something. why do you always say you're going to do something when the democrats are in power? >> who created s-chip?

the republicans in 1997, one of the most innovative programs to enfranchise children who don't have health insurance. >> i thought that was bipartisan. >> it was republican congress and signed by president bush. >> you said not since lincoln. >> we had a democratic president. >> right, in 1997. we were the ones who supported that and it came out of the controlled house by the republican. >> you're saying, congresswoman, that was initially proposed by a democratic president? >> that's exactly right. >> well, let me ask you this -- we had a patient's bill of rights bill that was pushed. i was one of the co-sponsors of it, which would help -- you know, there have been excesses by the insurance companies. no one's going to say that they don't do it right all the time. i actually handled the expenses for my parents. they denied coverage on them numerous times. >> have you ever been in an emergency room? do you know how many people are in there sitting to get basic health care, primary health care, sitting in a room for hours and hours and hours because they don't have insurance?

you think that's good? >> there are a million people who can become part of medicaid and s-chip who aren't aware of their eligibility. we have to enfranchise those people. >> last word, congresswoman. i just want a bill. i want a bill. >> we are at much -- >> go ahead, congresswoman. >> we're going to get a bill. it's going to be a good bill. just people should just know, they are already paying the average holder of insurance, $1,000 a year to pay for people who aren't covered, who aren't insured. we're paying for this system already. we're paying too much and getting too little. we can do better. >> we will watch you guys next week as you sit in the house chamber. i will be waiting to see -- congressman, i will wait to see if you stand up be applaud anything. congresswoman jan schakowsky of illinois. u.s. congressman chris smith of new jersey, the garden state. up next -- what hollywood celebrity wins a poll that was taken online as to which hollywood type would you like to

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back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. first up, wild pitch. guess who's gotten into the talk about the possible lineup to run for ted kennedy's senate seat, i mean, possible? baseball pitcher curt schilling. and here with the red sox fans everywhere, the conservative all-star would have to run as an independent, was asked by a local radio station this morning about the rumors. >> are you planning or contemplating running for the vacant seat? >> i've thought about it. the fight would be fun. the whole spotlight media crap, not so much. but the fight would be a lot of fun because pretty much anybody that you're fighting against that's in office right now doesn't really have much of a

leg to stand on. >> not a bad argument actually but he's a conservative and doesn't have a chance in massachusetts. speaking of massachusetts and the kennedys, who doesn't remember this image, john jr., john kennedy jr. hiding under president kennedy's oval office desk back in '63. well, fast forward to 46 years later until now to the next president with a young kid, this photo of president obama with sasha that was just posted by the white house online. life goes on. by the way, "the london telegraph" put those pictures on the front page. time for tonight's big number, a new internet survey from u.s. news and world report round up these surveys. ben affleck, anne hathaway, tom selleck and ted nugent and angelina jolie and asked who they would like to see in the u.s. contest. the top vote getter, tom selleck with 41%. i don't think rosie o'donnell would agree with that one. sounds like the rule, the shape of the field determines the

winner. the field, most of the hollywood stars were liberal and the one right of center guy was best positioned to win with 41% of the vote in that poll. they said they would like to see tom selleck make the move to washington. that's tonight's "big number." up next, ted kennedy's memoir's being released earlier than originally planned. in fact, it wasn't planned at all. nbc has brought copies at a nearby book stores here. wasn't exactly the plan of the publisher. that's coming up. we have some of the citations. a lot of interesting stuff in this about ted kennedy. amazingly honest -- well, it's a memoir, a real one, like chappaquiddick and all of that stuff is in here and failed presidential bid. we will bring it to you for free in just a minute. plus, the candidate may expect -- who goes out for ted kennedy's seat will have to answer tough questions. martha coakley will have to do that when we come back. the top candidate, only candidate, massachusetts attorney general today announced she's running for ted kennedy's seat. she's in the race all alone. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

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here's what's happening. california fire officials say the fires are a result of arson. they are launching a homicide investigation due to the death of two firefighters last week. they have made great strides in beating back that fire. they now have it nearly 40% contained. two astronauts have stepped into space. nasa announced that a large piece of space junk will pass clear of the orbiting lab, posing no threat to the station or astronauts on board. friends and family are gathering for the funeral for the king of pop, michael jackson. jackson will be laid to rest in

an elaborate marble mausoleum that will not be accessible to the public. the nfl says quarterback michael vick will be eligible to play beginning in the third game of the season. that's the very latest. now back to "hardball." back to "hardball." nbc news obtained a copy of senator kennedy's memoir "true compass." we will be taking a closer look at that and what the late senator wrote in just a minute. first, massachusetts attorney general martha coakley was the first to announce her candidacy today in the race to replace senator kennedy. martha coakley, the attorney general, joins us right now. i want to get to some of the hot button issues that people ask every senator to respond to. right now we have been covering on this program this whole question of eric holder deciding to at least look into a preliminary investigation as to

whether u.s. interrogators broke the law in their handling of alleged terrorists. do you think that investigation, if undertaken, should include the vice president and other higher-ups who gave the guidelines? >> i think if he's opening the investigation and that seems what it is at this stage, he has to go where the facts and the evidence lead him. i have been a prosecutor for a long time. i think you have to do it fairly and you have to look at everything. he's obviously decided it's worth doing. we don't know what all of the facts are, but i think if he's going to get to the bottom of it, he has to do that. >> even policymakers like the vice president, the man has been incredibly candidate in supporting waterboarding, et cetera, et cetera. in fact, he's supported even those cases where interrogators went beyond the guidelines. he said they should be left alone. where are you on that question generally speaking?

do you think they should be harmless held outside of the line of inquiry or not if they broke even the guidelines set by the administration that left office last january? >> well, generally speaking, you know, we have rules of immunity who we include, who we don't in those investigations. but if there's criminal behavior and the attorney general feels that they should be the subject of that, he has -- i think the investigation will lead him where it needs to. i think he can look at that and then there will be other defenses or other decisions that get into play on that. but they obviously feel there's a real reason to do this investigation, and i think they'll do it in a thorough and fair manner. >> let me ask you about some of the issues before the senate right now that would be coming up right away, that may even be still alive if you become the next senator from massachusetts. what do you think of the idea of covering abortion in the new health care bill, should it be covered? >> i'm pro-choice, and i believe that the ability of people to have access to that should be unfettered. that's my belief. it's been true in massachusetts and true for a long time. that's a political question. it's a difficult one. i think that, you know, i

personally believe that's true but the legislature has put some restraints on that. and that's not, as i understand it, something that right now people are discussing, but i know it will be in the health care bill and that will be one -- that's one of the very thorny issues. my own personal belief is that the constitution allows it, permits it. and when we recognize a constitutional right, we have some responsibility to make sure people have access to that right. >> so the subsidies, which are going to be in the new health care bill as provided by the house committees, will provide for abortion -- if they do provide for abortion rights, that's fine with you, abortion services? if the subsidies include that, even though the hyde amendment says the federal government cannot spend $1 on abortion. how do you square that? >> well, chris, look, this is the first day i've announced this. this health care bill has so many pieces that are critical and complicated. on that particular issue, that's where i am. i know there are going to be a lot of ways those pieces will

fit together. but i can't really answer you right now how we square that. >> just a general principle, madam attorney general, do you think the federal government should be as part of the health care reform subsidizing abortion, yes or no? >> yes. i think yes. the short answer is yes, and i think they will have to change other laws to make them consistent. i believe so. >> i'm not an attorney but you are, certainly you are. and i would like to know your view on this. recently the supreme court ruled we have an individual right to bear arms, not a right to join a militia and therefore have a gun. but you have a right to own a gun like any other element in the bill of rights we were taught in school. do you agree with that decision? we have an individual right to bear arms. >> you're talking about the heller decision. >> yes. >> the heller decision in washington. >> yeah, about the d.c. law, that struck down the d.c. law that outlawed gun ownership. do you support the individual right to own a gun? forget the militia stuff. do you support the individual right to own a gun? >> well, that decision right now applies to d.c.

we have a case right now as to what the reach of that decision is for each individual states. it's still not clear -- and i think it is clear from the heller decision there's a lot of room for states to still regulate. there are ways in which our state in particular, and that's what i'm most familiar with, puts restrictions on who, what, where and when. >> so you believe states should have the right to restrict gun ownership, even if there's an individual right. you don't buy it as an absolute right? >> i think there's a huge countervailing subject safety issue. having said that, my husband is a police officer. i understand and support the right of well trained and responsible gun owners. that's not the issue. but this -- this heller decision has opened up a lot of concerns around what will happen and how can states keep people safe? and i think there's going to be a lot of litigation around it. >> are you a gun control advocate? >> i believe in public safety that controls guns in appropriate ways. i think massachusetts has some very strict gun control laws but

we also respect the right of sportsmen and others to own personal handguns. and i think people can and should be licensed to own handguns in many circumstances. >> it's an honor to have you on, madam attorney general. martha coakley, who announced for the massachusetts senate who was held until recently the late great ted kennedy. thank you for coming on "hardball" tonight. this is what we do here. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming on and answering some of our questions. let's turn to the co-author of the kennedy biography "the last lion" for a closer look at the late senator's memoir "true compass." i have been calling it a bootleg copy. the fact is our people at msnbc bought copies at a book store here. it certainly violates the plans of the publishers who wanted to hold this book off until the 14th. here we go. let's take a look at what the late senator said about chappaquiddick, and i found it very poignant. that night on chappaquiddick island ended in a horrible tragedy that haunts me every day of my life. i have suffered loss but far too many times, but this night was

different. this night i was responsible. it was an accident, but i was responsible. every day of my life. neil? >> well, chris, i think from the excerpts i have read so far, and that is a particularly telling one, the book seems more notable for its sense of reflection more than its sense of revelations. those words are haunting and honest but they're fairly consistent with what he said after chappaquiddick, after the accident, talking about his behavior being inexcusable. i think the legacy he's talking about, about how this story has dogged him for the rest of his career and he's talking personally it stayed with him. and i think he was also smart to acknowledge that as much grief as it caused him, the grief was much stronger and more lasting for the kopechne family. >> that's right. i thought it was a very honest statement as far as it went, of course. let's take a look at what else he wrote. in the months and years after bobby's death -- that, of

course, the former late attorney general robert kennedy -- i tried to stay ahead of the darkness. i drove my car at high speeds. i drove myself in the senate, i drove my staff, i sometimes drove my capacity for liquor to the limit. there's a couple other references in this book. let's take a look at another one here. this is about the alaska trip, when the homeward flight to seattle, i drank too much in an effort to numb myself. wow, in an effort to numb myself. the account eventually surfaced of my resulting rowdiness and leading everyone in childish chants of eskimo power were on target. someone later quoted me as saying in the course of one of those legs that if i were to run for president, quote, they're going to shoot my ass off the way they shot off bobby's. acknowledging all of that is fact now. >> that to me was the most incredible of the excerpts that had been released so far because what it shows is just what kind of place ted kennedy was in, in 1968 and 1969. i mean, this was -- in six years from going to the kid brother to assuming the mantel of leadership for family and for some ways the country and

democratic party, he was not prepared for it. he could not grieve except publicly, so he had to be sort of stoic publicly. and the alaska trip is notorious for what it showed what he was feeling and how he just sort of needed this kind of release, and sometimes reckless release. but i agree with you, those were pretty incredible for the candor, those comments. >> i have to tell you, that sounds like a guy, i don't know if it's clinical or not, but when you say you're drinking to numb yourself, to keep busy to numb yourself, i know there are so many mixed feelings about the late senator, and, of course, every one of us is a mixed bag but i'm profoundly affected by this book. let's look at something else he wrote. when i walked in a st. patrick's day parade, this was after bobby and jack was killed, in march of '69, a burst of popping fire crackers caused me to freeze in my tracks and prepared to dive to the pavement. i stayed upright by an act of

will. years later on another occasion i was enjoying a walk in the sunshine near the capitol building with tom rollins, then my chief of staff, when a car backfired down the street. tom recalls i was suddenly nowhere to be seen. turning around he saw me flattened on the pavement. you never know, tom recalls me saying, even know i'm startled by sudden noises. i flinch at 21-gun salutes at arlington to honor the fallen in iraq. my reaction is subconscious. i know i'm not in danger but it still cuts through me. you know, i have heard stories with him taking different routes every day to vote. i saw him years ago looking to everyone that came into the hearing room and making sure they looked okay. all of these years since '68 thinking you could be next when you have two brothers shot right there in public life. >> i think that's exactly right, chris. and i think 1968, remember, when everyone around bobby kennedy was encouraging him to run, ted kennedy was the singular source of opposition. he did not want bobby to run. he was careful enough in the kennedy family, as you know, to frame it politically, not worrying about bobby's safety, although that was unsaid.

and i think they both understood that. they feared that this might happen again, and, of course, when both of your brothers are shot and your oldest brother was killed, you have to have that weight of doom in some ways, even though he sort of -- that's why i think he looked forward so often in life as opposed to looking back because that was his only way to deal with tragedy. >> i'm going to read every word of this book. i have been looking at xerox copies this afternoon as we have gotten copies from the book store. here's what senator kennedy wrote about jimmy carter, my old boss. i was a speechwriter for him, as i said before. clearly, president carter was a difficult man to convince of anything. one reason for this was he really did not really listen. those two guys were like oil and water. they never got together. they just were different strokes. i have to tell you. i don't know who's right. i'm loyal to carter but i have to tell you, those guys did not belong on the same planet. your thoughts? >> i think it makes you wonder if the '80 race, ted kennedy's race against carter, would have

happened if there had been a better personal equation between the two. and i think the answer is no. it was a bad decision to run against an incumbent president and it weakened them both. but i think it really was. i think teddy kennedy felt that jimmy carter was a bit of a scold and a bit of arrogant and did not respect the leadership in the party that ted kennedy had given in the '70s when he came in. and that just sort of hurt him and bothered him all the way right up until his announcement to run. >> and i think a lot of people around the senator, and a lot of liberal columnists supported him. never gave him the straight skinny, once you're responsible for a death, the level atonement that is required is almost beyond human ability. and that's why he wasn't elected president. neil, thank you very much. by the way, congratulations on your book. i read it and i loved it. it's a great book. >> thank you, chris. >> it's called, your book? >> "last lion." >> "last lion." here's a picture of it. up next -- can president obama take control of this health care fight?

the big story next wednesday night. "politics fix" is next. this is "hardball" on msnbc. limb: dude that was sick! i've been hangin' up there for, what, like, forty years? and then - wham - here i am smacking the pretty off that windshield of yours. oh, what you're looking for an apology? well, toss another coin in the wishing well, pal. it's not happenin'. limb: hey, what's up, donnie? how you been? anncr: accidents are bad.

anncr:but geico's good ding! with onsite windshield replacement. coming up -- is wednesday night's speech to congress a make-or-break time for president obama and his health care bill? "hardball" returns with the "politics fix" next. ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪ a tornado hits, air life denver takes off... their night-vision goggles keeping the rescue mission safe... and powering those goggles-- the only battery air life trusts: duracell. trusted everywhere.

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well, what a night for politics. time for the "politics fix" with the politicos roger simon and "the new york times" charles blow. thank you both joining me. you know, we just had on the candidate for the ted kennedy senate seat. first time she's been on anywhere. i thought she was pretty good. however, when i asked her about

abortion and whether it should be subsidized in the new health care bill, she wasn't quite ready but she did say she supports subsidizing abortion services as part of the health care bill. it seems to me that might be okay in massachusetts. but is it tough when given the hyde amendment, which says you can't pay for abortion with federal money? >> it's a tough one. i thought they was impressive for the two minutes that she was in. but she was, i think, not really up to speed on all of those issues she's going to be asked during the campaign. it's understandable. she's just announced. but there are so many pitfalls that she's going to face on the way and she just faced her first one talking about, yeah, i'm for public funds being for abortion. on the other hand, there is something called the hyde amendment. on the third hand, the president of the united states does not really want to deal with this issue on the eve of voting. we hope on the eve of voting for health care reform. >> i think it's within the strike zone to ask the question. charles, when you run for senate, you have to answer the questions right away.

your view? gun control, pretty much for gun control. position on vice president cheney, investigated along with everybody else in terms of interrogations. your thoughts? >> those are winning answers in massachusetts. it may not be for the national stage, but it's a winning statement for massachusetts. an interesting candidate to me simply because she's a woman. in massachusetts. if you recall during the primaries, hillary clinton beat barack obama in massachusetts by 15 percentage points even though ted kennedy had endorsed obama, and that's because she won the female vote by 26 points. if she -- and she was a clinton supporter. she can mobilize that to kind of -- puts her well out in front of the rest of the field. >> i think the senate's going have a lot more women in it in years ahead. may get up to 50%. that's the way i look at it. they're strong candidates, per se. in massachusetts she say the

shape of the field determines the winner. the people that might run against her. maybe ed markey. very strong and impressive friend of mine, obviously. a strong senior did all this work pushing the climate change and the energy bill. got it through. the hero of that one. you've got steve lynch from salvi, south boston, a pro lifer. he will like what she had to say because he will position himself directly against that and took this seat. does well in that field. >> in that field, met him a couple times. 20 e-mails a day like all reporters do. ed markey has served in the u.s. house since 1976. he's 63 years old. it's a good time to get to the senate. he's paid his due, he's a smart guy, and i think if he chooses to run he's going to immediately move to the head of the pack. >> thanks. we'll be right back and talk more about this new ted kennedy book and another thing, amazing confession's stuff in this new kennedy book. even kennedy critics will be wowed to the extent they're

wowable. honesty. charles lowe and roger simon, back in a minute with "the fix." you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc."

we're back with roger simon and charles blow. roger simon, politico and charles first on this one. next wednesday the president's going address the nation and he's going to address the congress in joint session. the vice president put out the

word he's going to be detailed, clear, it's not enough to unite the democrats. >> i'm not sure that it is. i think that the president has waited a little too long in the debate and not given a clear direction and not actually explained things in ways that people can understand. the great thing about, gop, they speak in bumper stickers. the president does not do that. oratory, it's great for the history books but it's not great when you're trying to win a political battle and so it never sticks. they turn him into the party of no, no, i'm not going to take away your health insurance. he's on the defensive. i think it probably has gone on a bit too long for him to salvage the original plan. he has to give up much more than he wants to give up. basic lay to move the goal post to claim a victory. >> i agree. a lot of people are seeming worried they won't get the liver transplant, the protocol, stuck in a huge bureaucratic system. it's gotten out of hand. >> he has to give the best nuts

and bolts speech of his life. this isn't a state of the union speech even though setting is the same. get down off the mountain top into the trenches and tell us what he wants. >> the liberals will be watching, charles and roger. will he support definitively and strongly a public option? my hunch if he doesn't, if he waffles or says he prefers one or anything that sounds soft, the networks, talk show people including my colleagues, all kinds of people in this country will spend a couple of days hosing the guy. >> every time we hear from the administration these days on the public option it's like they're serving soft serve ice cream. they never come out with any passion on either side of that. that leads people to believe that they do not, that it's not imperative they have it in the bill. i think that is the message he will continue to send, which will mean there will not be the public option as we know in the bill.

>> if he continues with the soft ice cream approach to this, as charles refers to it, and i think it's not bad. if he does that next wednesday night what will people like those on the show, the big city liberals, what will they do? >> they won't vote for it. not that the left wing of the democratic parties wants the option. the left wing wants single payer. the main string of the democratic party wants the public option. >> why? do they want it as a first step towards single payer? >> no. as the president himself as said it is the only way to keep the health care industry honest. if they're not forced to compete, they won't compete. they will get the icing on the cake, they'll get the whole cake. they'll get 46 million new customers, but they really won't have to agree to do any of the stuff that we call reform without being forced by the public option. >> of all people, charles, a man of the right, said that one thing the president could do is call for a non-option that could bring the whole thing down in

the senate but for regulation of the insurance industry, like regulate gas company, electric company, public utilities, put them in a position where they can't charge huge profits, can't steal the money have to provide a service. you regulate them, make them into a utility. that's what do you to insurance. what do you think? >> the long side. i mean, maybe it would work. i think it's a long shot that that would be part of this bill. i think the president is trying to get this thing behind him, because he's seen what it does to his poll number and in fact will take any win. >> i get your point. thank you, roger and charles. join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." "countdown with keith olbermann" starts right now. which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? the president prepares to sell

out the public option to buy the vote of olympia snowe, and one or two others if they're lucky, by deferring to private insurance until later or until things get worse or both. clarence page broke the story here last night. the co-chair of the congressional caucus that let the cat out of the bag. saying that the white house has called health care reform advocate organizations and told them "they will cease supporting the public option portion of the upcoming health care reform legislation." the caucus writes obama saying we get no public option. you get none of our 83 votes. gene robinson putting politics ahead of people. jonathan cohen and the lodge pick the public option can be delayed until it gets worse when they already are worse. lawrence o'donnell on the shame that democrats would pander to get support from the neanderthals like the one shouting down the wheelchair-bound woman at a town hall in jersey. >> we hear this voice of the