ridiculous. caving in to ridiculous screams. >> i learned there are scared -- >> i am embarrassed. >> kids, when the president talks about working hard and staying in school, not a subversive message. >> you are such a communist, joe. >> yeah, i am. >> it's time for the return of dylan ratigan in the "morning meeting." >> here we go. mika, nice to see you. welcome and nice to see you as well. topping the agenda today after a summer of halted debate on health care reform, congress is back in session. the president has a primetime speech scheduled for tomorrow. and the backlash over the president's back-to-school talk. some republicans backing his message up up.

one of the president's czar's biting the dust after a fight with the gop and others on a so-called hit list. the controversy of the lockerbie bomber shying no signs of dying. it's 9:00 a.m., and pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." >> welcome. back to work today after a brief break, and so too is congress. august is returning, and waiting for them, health care reform and can our government function in the interest of the american people or not. nbc's white house correspondent, savannah guthrie joins us. >> dylan, as you mention, these are key days in the health care reform debate. today we will see the gang of six get together. this is the last ditch proposal

for a bipartisan health care plan, and then the president getting ready for a primetime address to the congress. we saw something of a new tone from the president. a feisty tone as he spoke to organized labor on monday in cincinnati. listen. >> the congress and the country has now been vigorously debating the issue for many months. but every debate at some point comes to an end. at some point, it's time to decide. at some point, it's time to act. ohio, it's time to act and get this thing done. >> that's the message, more or less. we will hear the president deliver that to congress tomorrow night. it's a gang of six. a group of half republicans and half democrats trying to come up with a bipartisan proposal. and finally, they came out with a deal. they had a conference call last week and will meet face-to-face

today. september 15th is the deadline to produce something out of the senate finance committee. here are some of the bullet points that we have seen from senator bacchus. it will cost something under $900 billion. it doesn't have the public option, the government-run public option, but co-ops. it does not mandate employers to provide insurance. it would tax insurers on the most extensive plans. and another one is to tax all insurance companies just for the price of reform, the notion being you will benefit from reform because there will be millions and millions added to insurance rolls, so you might as well pay for that as well. we will see how that goes over on the republicans when they meet today. >> okay. jonathan capehart, and cc, i

will begin with you. everything on the list savannah walked us through, what on the list should we care about most and why? >> they are all important. i think you will hear grumbling, as i understand it, senate finance has been looking at a slightly different approach where if you had a company that dropped its insurance coverage that sent all of the employees over to a co-op or government program like medicaid, they would be penalized. there will be discussion on that. the other thing is the size on the tax on insurance companies is going to matter. all along the insurers have been figuring they will get dinged in the process. they will have to pony up money. the question will be how much and if it's something they can swallow in return for many customers. those are a couple flash points.

>> what strikes me, jonathan capehart, having reading up on all this after being away for a bit, talking about the trigger and the public option will be attacked to the trigger, where if the environment was not enough, and that concept strikes me as bizarre. walk us through what they are talking about when they say they will invent a trigger and what does it imply? >> cc, correct me if i am wrong. the senate finance will come up with a mechanism, where if it doesn't work the way congress hopes it would work, then the public option would kick in, and from the bullet points savannah just went through, i don't think that the trigger is there. i think that was something that was talked about last week.

>> well, you are right. think of it, dillin, ylan of a or fall back, and if you say we will not try to eat out, and after a few months you will figure we are still doing that and we don't have the money, and then we will have a stricter measure that will kick in on the budget, think about a trigger in that way. >> karen, if you look at the health care dollars ranging from the patients and everybody in between, if you look at the drift who is winning and losing of the constituents? steve, -- >> well, the concern that i think the president will have to deal with, and this gang of six will have to deal with, when we fwauk trigger options, most people think that doesn't work, and the co-op, the concern is

that will not create the needed pressure and the hold on the insurance companies to quote unquote do the right thing. and the patient is still not getting the higher quality of care for the cost. that's going to be what you are seeing playing out on the situation. >> who is doing worse at the point? >> you asked about the consumer, dylan. two important things. one you will hear from the president on wednesday night. all of the insurance market regulations that we have been hearing about for sometime are still very much alive and in the mix so insurance companies could not deny you coverage based on your age or based on if you had some sort of preexisting condition. on the other hand we are hearing discussion about scaling back and the coverage in the proposals. that should be of concern to some consumers, particularly people that don't have health

insurance today or have bare bones insurance. that's the plus and minus for consumers. >> i have to wrap this, ceci, the agenda is revolving around trying to create the best health care plan for patients or for funders, the doctors or health care insurance, or will it still come at the expense of the patient? >> i think they still have the thought of consumers and trying to deliver, better, more affordable care for americans. whether or not we are on the path to get there is a good open question for a lot of debate. i do sense that is that what is driving this whole big effort. >> yeah, real quick, karen? >> i think basically at this point if folks are just trying to get something done and get enough of something done that

seems like it does something for consumers, they can all go home and sell that for 2010. >> make sure you don't alienate the insurance companies that alienate you, appears political win. >> exactly. >> good times. contessa, what do you have. police accused a 49-year-old walter ellis of killing nine women in murders dating back to 1986 and as recently as 2007. they tracked ellis through the trace of the dna that he left on the victims. one was a 16-year-old runaway and the other was prostitutes. police say they are still investigating whether he is connected to other crimes, and they have not released his picture, but have been charged with crimes already. and police are dead after a suicide bomber blew up his vehicle. this is the third attack by

insurgents since last month's election. let's get to richard engel, who is there with more. i understand there is dispute over the presidential election as well, richard. >> reporter: yeah, let me start with the attack. a suicide car bombing at the military airport here in kabul. the attacker from the taliban tried to enter the military airport which was run by military forces, and was not able to get through the check point, and blew up the vehicle outside and killed three civilians. and nato troops were lightly injured. the big news is the increasing confusion and allegations of fraud in the election here, in the election that took place last month. for the first time, and this announcement came a short while ago from the electoral commission. karzai passed the critical 50% margin that he needs to win the

election. these results are only preliminary, and only partial, and they give an indication of the way things are going according to the account of 91% of all of the ballots cast last month, karzai won 54%. now, the results aren't final and they are also increasingly disputed because that announcement came just a few hours after a u.n.-backed organization called for a partial recount saying that it found convincing and credible evidence of fraud in many stations. so even as they are announcing the results, another electoral body is saying they need to have a re-count. this is an election very inch dispute and doesn't seem to be being resolved anytime soon. >> people will not know who the next president is? >> reporter: several different

baraoug bureaucracies. there is a u.n.-backed organization split between foreigners and afghans and that's the one saying slow down the process and have a recount. you must investigate all the allegations of fraud. there are 3,000 allegations of fraud. and at this stage, it is unclear who will come out on top when asked whether the electoral commission will abide by the re-count, they said they would but it would take a long time. >> richard, thank you. we have video to show you here. six people sent to the hospital after a motor-powered parachute fell out of the sky and crash into the a crowd of on lookers. the pilot and his son were not even hurt. they survived it just fine. >> a rare and fortunate

occurrence. if you show us a plane crash or a crash of any kind, it's good to have one like that. >> yeah. and parents expressing outrage, and some schools saying they tune obama out, and now obama getting support, and it's on the right no less. that's next. when i need to look my best, i know tresemmé will keep every hair in place.

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i think it's probably a good way to deal with it. it leaves it up to the parents and is not forced upon you. >> i think the president coming in to try and inspire the kids to be better and think better and eat better is a great thing.

>> the state is interfering with the e education and it's not right. >> i think it's a socialistic idea of getting to kids when they are young. >> there are things he is in favor of and i am not. i don't want that shoved down my kids' throats while they are at school. >> michelle, i certainly wouldn't want anything shoved down my throat when i was at school. what are we dealing with, michelle? >> it's not the content. it's the timing. others, it's the lesson plan that at first had language saying the kids could help the president. elements like that. many districts gave the option of not letting your kids pass it, and broward county did not. they said it would go with the principles of providing a

well-rounded education for all students. but they said some kids did not have to watch it. this is the democratic strong hold of the state of florida. the superintendent said we are all going to watch it and you can talk to your kids later. not to say that all republicans are against it, and the republican governor said it was absolutely appropriate. here is what the former spaeeak of the house, also republican, newt gingrich had to say. >> i read the speech, and if he could give a speech tonight like that, it's a good speech. i would love to have every child think about it and read it and know they should stay in school and study. >> reporter: we had a hard time finding anybody opposed to the concept. as soon as we drove up to the school, there was a pickup truck with an enormous confederate

flag flying in the back. we covered that story many times. apparently, freedom of speech and expression is welcomed here at this high school. here is what one parent and student told us this morning. >> i didn't vote for obama, but i don't have a problem with him speaking to the kids. >> do you understand the controversy of what is going on? why some don't want him to speak? >> yeah, because they think it's going to be communism, and all of these other things. it's just him wanting for other people to do good, just like he is. >> reporter: the controversy, the controversy. we have heard the past of other presidents giving speeches, too. and the entire speech was released ahead of time. such a process around this 15-20 speech. >> yeah, and something missing from the president's speech is the reason why you have to do your homework is to pay for the

bailout. it's generational theft if you don't study. >> if something like this would have come down, school districts are put in a tough spot. on the one hand they don't want to seem political, and on the other hand there is something about the presidency of the united states that should belong to everybody. and i can remember bush, and a number of times in the aftermath of 9/11, teachers used that to talk about our country and patriotism. it's disturbing we have become such a cynical country, the president telling the kids to stay in school and work hard is cynical. >> the whole idea the president was going to try asand indoctrinate kids into

socialism. kids did not know what he was going to say. they decided this is what he was going to talk about. in looking at some of the remarks, they reminded may about the speech that he gave to the 100th anniversary of the aacp. he said we could only do so much. if you don't stay in school and do your homework, then you will not succeed. i am a prime example. my story is similar to a lot of yours. i am living proof that, you know, you can succeed. you have to work hard. what is so wrong with that? especially coming from the president. >> and if you want to hear critics, take a listen. i thought it was a sound byte. you will be stuck with my voice.

>> i am surprised me did not say in communist russia. >> now, you get to listen to the former first lady herself. >> there is a place for the president of the united states to talk to schoolchildren and encourage schoolchildren. i think it's also really important for everybody to respect the president of the united states. >> here is what strikes me, jonathan capehart, as somebody that has recollection of being in school. it's not that i would be concerned about socialism or communism, is i would be board out of my mind! >> come on. this is a sign the republicans see blood in the water here and they are trying everything they

can to create the distractions. we saw the same thing during the health care reform to what happened to van jones, and now we are talking about the president talking to a group of schoolchildren about staying in school and working hard. >> the conspiracy expands. you are going to be bored if you watch, but we will carry it. we will have live coverage of the president's remarks at noon eastern. it's a lovely speech, if you are doing homework and hard work, he will explain how to do that. fear not. straight ahead, we are plugging into what is going out in the fine world of our, including blagojevich, arrested, impeached and charged with selling barack obama's senate seat. who said we need transparency

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mountain top is to say it just isn't so. >> the "today" show got him first, and there will be other appearances throughout the week. he says over zealous prosecutors, and political enemies who always had it out for him. it's all a setup. >> he had good chemistry with the ladies of "the view." >> let's see how the chemistry lasts over several months. are you suggesting he could become permanent? >> yeah. joy, yeah, she would like it. and if this woman doesn't pay $24 million back today, she loses the copy rights to her work. this is a photographer. this is sizeable. >> a tragedy. >> would you want to talk tennis. >> yes. i love it.

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welcome back. tuesday morning. nice to see you at the "morning meeting." it's do or die time when it comes to health care reform in the u.s. congress. can our government function in the interest of the people that pay for it? obama preparing for critical speech to the congress tomorrow night. is there a deal in the works today with the gang of six in the senate. meanwhile, the big to do over the president's

back-to-school speech. there is something to be learned from the president's speech. bill burton, the press secretary, says we should not be bored while the president is telling us to do our homework. and then the lockerbie bomber, was it about oil? i say yes. and then the economic recovery built on the back of $23 trillion taken to the taxpayer, continues to function nicely. it's amazing what $23 trillion can do for you. one of the president's many czars, as you likely know, stepped down in a scandal. and now the gop set their sights on some of the other czars. >> you have republicans griping about how the unprecedented

number of czars are taking charge here. he has more than 30 czars. high-level advisers, some reporting directly to the president. they are not confirmed by the president, unlike cabinet secretaries. >> when you take all of the people and make policy close to the president and the white house to people that are not approved by the congress, you are adding fuel to the fire to those that think washington is taking over everything. >> and jones suggested he thought the u.s. government was involved in the 9/11 terror attacks. and these comments did not help either. >> how are the republicans able to put things through, but somehow we can't. >> well, the answer to that is they are [ bleep ] holes. barack obama is not an [ bleep ] hole. now, i will say this, i can be

an [ bleep ] hole, and some of us that are not -- >> i am sure the impact was much more when you could hear it without the bleeps. now, science czar, regulator czar, and an fcc diverse sea czar, mark lloyd. >> we have a health insurance owe law garr key, controlling the government. it makes sense we could have czars. >> the czars match the ones that run the congress, as far as i can tell. >> representative, put the obama czars in the context of the bush czars and the nixon czars and

clinton czars and presidential czars of the past. do you find president obama's czars more offensive because of political reasons or are you equally offended -- >> it's the number of czars. every president has had a handful of czars, special task force guys. the obama team is up to 34 czars. to put it in perspective, russia, over a three-year period of time had 18 czars. they have an open door to the president. and article 2 section 2 of the constitution says the president must seek advice and consent of the u.s. senate when they need principle advisers. the administration went around the constitution.

>> as a representative of the american people, from the state of georgia, what can you do and what can others in congress do to, at the very least, bring the czarist culture, that we are living in, if you will, and how do you bring the light to that? is there a piece of legislation you could offer up? >> yeah, i introduced house resolution 3226. it's called the czar accountability account. it says czars need to have senate confirmation, in order to get the offices funded. if he wants an ad hoc volunteer, that's his basis. these guys have security details and get paid $132,000 a year. and i want to be quick to add, the democrats under richard nixon did the same thing, and he had three or four czars, but the

democrats in the senate introduced legislation to stop nixon from doing this. there is a political precedent i would say. >> what would be the resistance? if people were uncomfortable with power outside the democratic process, a third class of prisoner on the torture front, or maybe delivering a few trillion dollars of taxpayers to do things with it, what can congress do to get a version of democracy back to america? >> one of the things that i am astounded by is the democrats did not learn from the republican mistakes. our mistake with the majority of the white house, and off and on with the majority in the senate, we were rubber stamping what the bush administration wanted to do, spendsing or international policy, or weapons of mass destruction, we did not use the equal branches of government to check the executive branch and

the legislative branch. >> and it has not worked out super well, wouldn't you say? >> it should work well on paper. but the democrats from the moderate blue dogs to the hard core left wing, they are rolling over. case in point, one of the big reasons obama was elected was to change the war. >> are we at this point hostage to a broken system. is the too-big-too-fail idea, or the power structure that exists inside of this outside of the box czar system, or for that matter, our investment in wars in the middle east, we have now gone down paths that we are unable to extricate ourselves even when the path we are on is

disastrous. >> well, had the president did this on van jones. here is a guy who was an admitted communist, and he said capitalism is killing the planet and oil companies in nigeria were killing the people over there. this was a radical guy that could have been a great guy, but for an advisor for the president of united states, and his own party could have saved him from the embarrassment. today, what is going on in california, here? >> we are looking at breaking news here. a fire truck is stuck in a sink kno north hollywood. nose first into the sinkhole.

it was reported more than an hour ago. the city fire truck off the 101 here is now stuck nose down in the sinkhole. we will keep our eye on that and keep you up to date as we get the pictures in from los angeles. and the san francisco oakland bay bridge will reopen in 20 minutes. far sooner than expected. crews found a crack in the bridge saturday. they have been working around the clock to fix it. authorities were expecting other routes to be packed this morning if the bridge repairs had gone into the morning commute. it looks like they have it open. they were not expected to get it back open until tomorrow. there you go, look at the cars over the bridge now live. now, seven astronauts will head home today. buzz lightyear, to infinity and

beyond. mission control asked the crew to do a final check to make sure buzz -- are you kidding me, that buzz was safe and sound on the shuttle. >> that's a long time to be in space if you are a plastic doll. >> what is next, woody? >> yes. taxpayers will pay for that, too, by the way. a lot more coming up. more fuel to the fire over the release of the lockerbie bomber. and the one that set him free worked for the business -- surprise, surprise. is this more in the name of cover up? we are back with the lockerbie cover up right after this. there was a time i wouldn't step out of the house

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nosurprise an oil deal may have prompted the discuss of the

lockerbie bomber. >> britain's justice minister said on the record that the british government was aware of the fact that billions in trade deals and oil contracts could be at risk if he died in jail. we are now learning scottland's justice secretary also has oil ties. for the first time his brother worked for firms that tried to secure oil contracts in libya. gordon brown is facing calls for an immediate inquiry into his country's role into the release. the whole thing is turn into a political game. >> i am trying to use this human tragedy, both for their own political agenda. new evidence, gordon brown

may be responding to the pressure. brown is backing lawsuits being backed by the families with members killed bite explosives. the compensation issue was reportedly on the table, and now there is evidence the british government did not want to jeopardize the lucrative oil contracts. >> now, we have our guest. you have done reporting on the specific to the british government in their efforts to conceal or admit to what is going on here. what do you have? >> i just came off the phone with mac kas kul's office. they said his decision had nothing to do with the fact that

his brother has ties in oil. and i heard word from london that gordon brown met with libya and with lawyers for the victims, and they are trying to come to some consensus on that, and get compensation for the ira victims. this is a side show, dylan. >> what is at stake for england? give me the dollars and cents. the largest oil reserves are in ach r africa, but what is in the deal? >> hundreds of billions of dollars. hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. the british are so disgusted with this, and even the liberals over there are calling gordon brown no-where man. anytime he denies british government had nothing to do

with it. and now they are saying american's reaction is disingenuous. i mean, come on! >> vicky, in your reporting, have you been able to come up with any sort of role the american government played in trying to stop the release of megrahi? >> yes. thank you for leading me up to that. i had so many e-mails about this. people are suspicious the americans somehow had to know. the justice department were not given much warning this was going to happen and were saying they must speak to mackaskill. and they said he must not be

released. again, i got this from his office, he said he did not have any further conversations with her until ten minutes before he made his speech. >> karen finney, isn't this evidence of the fact that we were perfectly willing as a western society to subordinate the well-being of human beings in exchange for oil. we do it with dealing throughout the middle east. this is a glaring example. we are saying it's unfortunately killed a bunch of college kids, but there are a few billion hundred dollars on the table and our value system is we would asoon get the deal done than to have ethics of any kind. am i wrong about that? >> you asked and answered the question. you are right. the problem here is even if -- who believes that there was no connection between the two? nobody. so that puts our morals and values at the center of the debate. i question, we have to reduce

our dependance on oil. we cannot be so driven by oil that we compromise our morals. >> yes, we do it all the time. we shouldn't, but we can and we are. thank you, vickie. jonathan, we will talk to you in a second. as if i wouldn't let you answer the question! i picked you up on that. i picked up on that! >> it was so -- >> we're heading to the break room. toure will give me a hard time. oprah winfrey has a big block party for the show. why the talk show queen is taking over three chicago city blocks next on the "morning meeting." your body needs sleep to feel healthy... to feel better. tylenol pm quiets the pain that keeps you awake. and helps you sleep, in a non-habit forming way. [ announcer ] you make healthy choices every day-- oh, max!

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welcome back. oprah winfrey taking over three blocks of chicago' michigan avenue to kick off the 24th season of her beautiful lovely afternoon program. >> are you a watcher? >> big. >> really?

>> no. but i have in the past and she is lovely and talented and all of that. >> it is a fantastic show and deserves all of the success she has got. she is able to close down michigan avenue whenever she wants. she is closing it down today but the show starts on monday. on her first show, oprah is going to have whitney houston, the billionaire will ask her when did the drugs start? which is a question everyone wants to know. dylan is chiming in early! early! try this at home. mention whitney houston and a group of at least five people and see if somebody says crack within 90 seconds. probably will. venezuelan president chavez who once called president bush the devil but he thinks obama is okay was in venice, italy, yesterday signing autographs and kissing fans and throwing flowers to the crowd and reaferming there is not that much of a difference between politicians and actors. many have said politics is for ugly people.

not talking about chavez in particular but just in general. he was rolling with oliver stone, his new documentary "south of the border" shows how chavez's policies have impacted the rest of south america. >> our executive producer shannon high just observed astutely the two kind of look similar, stone and chavez. maybe one of those things. you're like me. >> you're like me, i love you, you love me. >> you were saying? >> the beatles rock band new video game coming out together and bringing what the kids like and the boomers want. ringo and paul collaborated on this and hyperrenditions. >> what does that mean? >> look at these people. look at cheese characters. they really look like the beatles. so you're going to play along. >> is it a cartoon? >> hyperreal rendition, dylan!

thank you for letting me answer the question. that was fantastic. the best moment of the show this morning. >> the implication? >> i think -- >> that was a cartoon. >> to play along with early beatles song is easier than the later stuff when they get more complicated. >> and the drugs. >> we're hours away from the president's controversial speech. i read it and i honestly found it boring. do your homework. republicans i think were at the speech, too, and they were bored! paying $8 a day for lunch

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tylenol pm quiets the pain that keeps you awake. and helps you sleep, in a non-habit forming way. food fight! >> good morning to you. nice to see you. i'm dylan.

welcome back to the second hour of "morning meeting." the white house compares it to a food fight and "animal house." the president's speech to back to school kids with two hours from now. can he mesmerize kindergarten through 12? white house spokesman bill burton joins the meeting coming up to discuss the speech and everything else. also crunch time in the congress as we all know for some on the health care. the leader of the gang of six says he has a plan that will get it done. will this, indeed, be a september to remember? >> talk for a few minutes about the progress we're making -- >> i'd like to shift gears to -- >> interesting set of sound bites. i'm not quite sure what we learned, contessa, there, but the president has a voice and he can speak. the president preparing for a prime time push for congress and the nation to sell his health care agenda. what can he say to take control of the debate? gop suddenly fighting their way out of the -- poised for a

comeback in several key states. what does it mean for 2010? nate silver is with us from 538 later in the program. 10:00 a.m. in the east and 7:00 a.m. out in the west and pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." two hours from now the president of the united states going to deliver a message to schoolchildren across the country from the grades of kindergarten through 12. imagine trying to write a speech for that. it has sparked a backlash from parents he is sending a political message to their children. ma sell kosinski is live for us. the speech will be played in classrooms there. michelle, how controversial is this? are the kindergartens going to be walking out with saucers in their eyes? >> how controversial? >> yeah. >> funny we've been hearing about this for days. some people just in passing

yesterday thought this speech actually happened last week because the controversy had been going on for that long. but, yes, here we on the day of the president's speech to children. it's not so much the content. i mean, they actually put out the entire speech so people could read it and talk about it and discuss it and fight over it all they wanted ahead of time but that doesn't really seem to be the sticking point for many parents. for them it's the timing. the fact that health care is here and that is been debated so long and the speech tonight, some parents don't like that. also it's basically a captive audience. he is speaking to all children at once. you know, that could be some sort of socialist indoctrination in the sum of some words of actual parents. also the fact that the white house put out a proposed lesson plan and many parents did not like the wording of that. here in democratic strong hs stronghold broward county, florida, some parents wanted their kids to opt out but this

school district said, no, kids will watch this speech. here is what some parents told us this morning. >> it's a shame. i mean, everybody that own feeling and their own take on things and i think that you should be more open-minded to different opinions. >> if it's just going to be about education, that's fine. but he has no right to talk to them about anything political that you stay away from our children when it comes to trying to push your political agendas! these are our kids! and we will talk to them about political happenings, not you! >> there is so much going on in this country right now and in some ways, it's really no wonder there is this kind of controversial over something as simple as a speech to schoolkids but you wonder if the parents were opposed if obama was coming to visit their school and talk to students? those seemed to have fanfare around them and the kids get

excited and there doesn't seem to be much opposition generally. the superintendent here said, look, we provide a broad sieve isks education to kids and if we let kids opt that would not align with our principles of giving that quality education to all students. dylan? >> bill burton, white house deputy press secretary is with us once again. i feel your biggest threshold is not to bore them. kindergartners through 12th graders. it could be outrageous a person telling me to do my homework used to irritate me from time to time but where do you go from here and what is the response from the white house going into this whole speech? >> even though the coverage has been one of focusing in on what people have termed controversial, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. the president will gave message

staying in school and do your homework and produce the results that will help be a successful young man and woman. it's a great speech. i hope a lot of kids hear it today and i think that it's going to have positive results. >> how much do you feel that the white house that the democrats, in general, are now suddenly on the defensive and whether it's a sort of some of the nonsensical assaults on a speech like this or other things going on that it's the much politics of the opposition smelling blood in the water of some kind as it is anybody really caring what the president or anybody actually does? >> i don't doubt a lot of people that it is a lot about politics. when you got people like former first lady laura bush and newt gingrich all lining up behind what our education secretary arne duncan and the president sni a good idea, i think you have a lot of consensus on how much common sense is here on this speech. you know, look. folks out there who oppose every

single thing this president does. we saw on this the presidential campaign trail, too. >> i noticed and i think it's beneficiary to the president and to this entire situation that the copy of the speech was released early. pretty much to anybody who wanted to get a look at it you can look at it. any thought on relieving tomorrow night's speech on health care early? >> well, i'm glad you asked that. i have the speech for you right now that i will give you. >> if you could read it to me, that will be great and we won't even take commercials. >> we're still working on the final touches of that speech and i was just down in the bowels of the white house where i saw folks still working hard to get that done. i think that that speech is going to be very important for this debate and do three important things. one, talk about what the president is for. two, talk about what he is not for. three, talk about the urgency

and the importance of getting health care reform done right now. i think over the debate there has been a lot of confusion about what the president is for and what we're trying to pass and tomorrow i think we will be able to answer a lot of questions. >> how much of the debate right now is what is in the best interest of the insurance companies and drug companies and what is in the best interest of the doctors and hospitals and how much of that is happening at the expense of what may be in the best interests of patients? >> well, i think that's the health care system we have right now. for a lot of americans, they may lock their doctor and may be satisfied with their health insurance but the president wants to make sure if you like it, your health insurance is going to be secured. if you don't like it, you're going to have some more options and we're going to find ways to bring down costs to make sure it's deficit neutral. i think the system we have got is unacceptable for the president. if you have a preexisting condition you are denied health insurance or your insurer can drop you because you get sick.

the president will talk about those reforms and getting health insurance to folks who don't have it and bringing down costs to all americans. >> i appreciate you bringing the speech to us early. i don't know how the president is going to feel about it but we appreciate you offering your insight. >> good morning, bill. i have a question for out education. do you think it was a mistake for the education department to release that curriculum and do you think that is what has fed this wrong view, in my opinion, that the opinion president was trying to ram down political policies down little kids' slots in. >> i think what fed the controversy was a parties who would feed whatever the president does. as for the curriculum that came out with the speech there were revisions made to that to make it better suited for schoolkids all over the country. the president and education secretary thought that was most appropriate. that's what happened. i think we're going to have what is a very positive message for

american schoolchildren today. >> karen, go ahead. >> hi, bill. >> hey, karen. >> hey! one thing i think this brings out, i'm curious to get your take on this. i felt when i was in the white house the challenge between, clearly, this is an occasion where the president is speaking not in the partisan manner but this is the official duty of the white house of the president, which is different than, you know, the role of the president in a more political context and it strikes me, i mean, you guys are having to balance that pretty consistently and that seems to me what is bringing this out, this is an official duty of the president, not a political one. >> the president ran for this office because he thought that the way business gets done here is -- it's too partisan and gets too hot for no reason at all and people oppose things because someone from the opposite party is pushing it. and in this case, you know, it's so patently obvious it's a good message for the president to be telling kids to stay in school

and work hard and to do what they can to be the next innovator or president or whatever they want to do that, you know, i think the media unfortunately gets distracted by this controversy. is there a balancing act between doing what is right and doing it in such a way not going to spark controversy? sure. but i think that given the tone in washington, just about anything that this president is going to do is going to spark a little controversy. we have to keep doing what is right and keep doing what is hard and make progress for the american people. >> bill, a pleasure. thanks for the time and talk to you soon. you don't have to be in a classroom to watch this speech or be in k through 12. live coverage of the president's remarks here on msnbc. i guess it will be live president obama talking education, too. police in wisconsin after a serial killer, i understand here. what is going on? >> here, we have milwaukee police saying they've stopped the serial killer suspected of killing nine women over 21 years and scuffled with walter ellis

at a motel over the weekend trying to arrest him. his dna was found on his victims dating back to 1986. pat brown is a criminal profiler. here's a guy who apparently had been charged previously with violent crime, property crimes 12 times back in the '90s. how do they miss something like this? >> this is an ongoing problem with serial homicide investigation. it's 21 years too late. great cold case work but 21 years too late because it's been 21 years of no public safety and a lot of dead women. the police need to get on it quickly and go public quickly. they do not want to admit a serial killer is on the loose in their town. people probably had no clue this was going on. whenever a dead woman in the bushes naked and strangled even if she is a prostitute you have to say there is likely a serial killer and stop looking at their boyfriends and bad drug deals. >> the most recent victim they think was in 2007. they say eight of his alleged

victims were prostitute and one a 16-year-old run-away. does that make a difference when they investigate crimes make it less likely to connect the dots? >> most people think it has to do with prostitutes. it's easier when you have a bunch of prostitutes dropping dead in one block you look at a serial killer. all of the time killers are caught and connected to one killing and go back and find six other matches and it's a school girl here and a teacher there and none called serial homicide just hidden as separate homicide and that is our big problem. >> pat, thanks. >> thanks. breaking news now in north hollywood. this is an area of los angeles. a water main break supposedly a small one, except when the fire truck from the l.a. fire department arrived on the scene they didn't realize the ground was unstable and there is the truck nose first. it looks like the entire cab is submerged here below ground level so obviously they have shut down the streets. they are trying to shut off the water right now and have see how this comes out.

we'll stay on top of that this morning. great pictures there from l.a. but not the thing you want to do start your first work day after labor. >> much more ahead on the "morning meeting." the so-called gang of six dealing with health care negotiations may announce a deal as early as sun down today. do or die time for health care reform. gang of six. the president tomorrow night. former alaska governor sarah palin going after a news agency for showing a picture of a dying u.s. marine! that and so much more, including a visit with nate silver from 538 still to come. do stick around. having the right tools is crucial to being able to manage your diabetes properly. it's very important for me to uh check my blood sugar before i go on stage. being on when i'm feeling low can be like a rollercoaster. it does at times feel like my body is telling me to do one thing... and, my mind, my heart is telling me to do something else. managing my highs and lows is super important.

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this morning lawmakers getting back to work on capitol hill.

top of the agenda, health care reform. we're learning new details about a compromise proposal now on the table among the so-called gang of six. nbc's capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell joins us to get us up to speed on what is going on. >> good to see you, dylan. although they are now back face-to-face working, there was some progress made during the break and what we're talking about here, when you mention the gang of six, those are the bipartisan negotiators related to the senate finance committee, the last of the committees that need to weigh in writing actual health legislation. big news today that there is a proposal that will be presented to the group and it might incur a little bit of favor from the republican side and that is been really key here. they've been trying to find a way to bring a few republicans on board. key is chuck grassley and olympia snow and what is included is what we can tell you the price tag is 8900 billion

and would not include a public option. meaning a government operated health insurance option for people to buy into. it would not mandate that employers provide coverage. it might tax some employers who provide some of the high-end programs, and it would also create what are known as health care cooperatives. those are nonprofit organizations where the people who participate are actually owners and they would use their sort of group strength as buying power to try to negotiate better costs for health care. that's some of what is being talked about today. they are meeting and urgency with the president speaking to both chambers of commerce tomorrow and this could be a deal get the attention of some of the moderate democrats uneasy and some of the republicans might bring them along. >> kelly, thank you very much. bill burton said tomorrow night, jonathan capehart, that the president will tell us what he is for and what he is against.

which we hope. we have a little bit of insight the president may be for or against from david axelrod over the weekend on "meet the press." take a listen. >> he believes in competition and choice. the public option is an important tool to help provoke that where there is no competition. he believes the public option is a good tool. it shouldn't define the whole health care debate, however. >> how bright a line can the president draw, karen finney, on the public option, on co-ops and mandate and on the really critical aspect of the debate up to this point? >> he has to be careful on that. as you know many of the folks on the left will be listening very closely to what he has to say about the public option versus co-ops. the concern about the co-ops is they don't have the kind of leverage that a public option would have to be able to kind of break that stranglehold on insurance companies and there is

a real fear if we leave it to the insurance companies to do the right thing, that's not going to happen and that the trigger won't really work. >> i disagree. the insurance companies will do the right thing for them which is make as much money as poem and treat as few people as possible. >> i mean do the right thing. clearly, i mean, you know, the progressives are listening closely to that. if there is a sense he is backing away from the public option as, you know, in the broader sense, the question will be can we preserve the elements of the public option that create the real competition. >> jonathan? >> when it comes to the co-op issue here, though, we have to understand we don't know exactly how this co-op thing is going to work. i mean, it is up to congress to design it in such a way that it does force the health insurance companies to compete with them. so let's keep in mind that while we're talking about these

co-ops, we don't know exactly what it's going to look like. >> but that is the whole problem, jonathan, is that we don't know how the co-ops work and to this point, they've left it particularly vague. again, that is part of why many folks are very leery of the co-op as a proposal because it is quite vague. >> karen, is the president more likely to alienate the left or the right tomorrow night, or both? >> i think he is in danger of both, quite frankly. because, again, the left is suspicious at this point about this idea of backing off. there has been so much talk about having to get something done but i think we also need to focus on getting the right thing done and by the right thing, i mean the right thing for the american people and that seems to have gotten lost in this broad discussion. >> that's because the money comes from everybody else. >> right. because generational threat is the new status quo. >> oh, my lord. don't make the public the enly of the good.

>> don't make something not good's trin to sell it as progress. >> not good or not perfect? >> not good enough. >> i thought matt hit it on the head. as of a few weeks ago the bad ideas were in and the good ideas were out fighting to get in. calling something health reform isn't health reform it's like passing ethanol for energy reform which basically had a breakfast in our cars and now we're paying bribes to libya for terrorists. >> when does chuck grassley dictate democratic policy to a democratic congress and democratic president? >> you didn't get the memo? september 8th. >> no. i was reading the president's speech. >> you were probably bored, right? >> no. >> the secret mission coming up. that's ahead. plugging in. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet.

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working our way towards 10:30 in the east. mark sanford has an interview with the detail by least and contessa brewer has more on that. >> i'm seeing a scene here. here is mark sanford saying to the daily beast. everybody is a sign their own secret agent mission in life and at times the tricky part, the hard part is finding out what that is. his secret agent mission. is he talking about going to argentina here? he says it's payback time. the way the south carolina legislators are seeing it. he says, i gave the bullet and guns and rope and all that stuff. you ain't going to change david thomas' mind. they are calling on him to resign now so he is in trouble. >> spitzer looks better and better. >> they are going it's not my fault, people are asking me. you handed him the weapons is what he said. sarah palin making headlines this morning and wrote on her

facebook page, she says the ap's decision to release a battlefield photo of a dying marine is an evil thing to do. she says because they did it over the family's objections. the associated press was doing a story on this soldier who was 21 years old, joshua bernard of maine and his unit was ambushed in afghanistan on august 14th. the associated press said we sent a reporter to maine to talk with the family out of respect, not to ask for permission to publish this photograph. news organizations you know don't typically ask for permission to publish news photograph. the ap sends it out to its newspaper clients but doesn't decide who runs it and who doesn't. hugo chavez wants to be obama's friend. that's how they say it in venezuela! chavez says that he thinks he could be friends with president obama. remember, he called the former

president bush evil? he says i have no reason to call him, obama, the devil and i hope that i am right. i'm not sure that obama wants that kind of friendship. he got so much flak here over the book that he accepted from chavez. i guess people wanted to see him punching him out like he was punching oliver stone's fist right there. >> they do look similar. you get confused who is who. >> if they could switch up the ties for us. >> thank you. president obama giving historic address to a joint session of congress. no, not the k through 12 today. tomorrow night! what does the president need to say about his plan for health care? how does he avoid alienating the left and the right in the process? we're back after this.

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ing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. today? are you fired up? are you ready to go? >> president obama is fired up a day before his health care reform speech. what is going on? >> the president is putting it all on the line tomorrow night in a rare prime time speech to a joint session of congress. after fiery town hall meetings the president is trying to regain control of the health care debate. a few minutes ago, bill burton said the president's speech will

offer specifics on health care reform. >> it's going to do three important things. one, it's going to talk about what the president is for. two, talk about what he's not for. and, three, talk about the urgency and importance of getting health care reform done right now. i think over the course of the summer and this debate there has been a lot of confusion about what the president is for and what we're trying to pass and i think that tomorrow we will be able to answer a lot of questions. >> besides selling congress on his health agenda the president needs to win over a public that remains divided. a new gallup poll out today shows little movement in opinion from a month ago. 39% want their lawmaker to vote against the health care reform bill and 37% want a yes vote and 1 in 4 still don't have an opinion. >> that is the most interesting group. >> yeah. >> brad blakeman joins us. former deputy assistant to george w. bush and founder of the group freedom watch. karen finney is here, a democratic strategist and press

secretary of hillary clinton. let's talk about the people who have no opinion. what, brad, do you think those people need to know to form an opinion? what piece of information is missing in your view that could be delivered by the president or anybody in congress on either side to help those people get toward an opinion? >> i'm not sure the president can do anything in one speech to move those 24% who are basically undecided on health care. i think they are decided and i think they are decided that the president is misfocusing his attention. he should be attentive on the economy and not health care. i think they are just fed up with what they've seen the last eight months in unemployment and the rising deficit and the budget, 4 trillion that they are numb to the whole thing. i don't think the president is able to sway the 24% or those people who are against it to come forward on his health care in one speech tomorrow night. >> karen, same question to you. that 24%, how do you deal with them? >> again, i think they need to hear more specifics. i think what they are really

angry about and what ifed heard about the week or so traveling in the country, people are furious about the fact that nothing is getting done because both sides are fighting. i mean, you know, we've been talking about the president's responsibility and the responsibility that the democratic members of congress, but republican members of congress have a responsibility here as well. at those town hall meetings this summer you did not hear people saying they did not want any kind of health care reform. they may have had problems with the lies that were being preed about specific ideas, but i think people are pretty angry and i think a pretty high cost to both parties frankly if something effective doesn't get done. >> i think brad makes an interesting point which is the underlying resentment that exists as we approach the one-year anniversary of the financial bailout and not much has happened since then that there is, the president has bitten off more than he can chew in effect. >> but, you know, the problem i have with that argument is we

know one of the biggest reasons people had to file for bankruptcy? their health care costs. what is one of the biggest sort of risks to small businesses? their inability to deal with their health care costs with their workers. costs are linked and now the republicans are saying let's get go ahead and trust the insurance companies like we did the banks? >> we're not saying that at all. >> i think you are. >> no, no. here is what we're saying. the health care that government provides and has provided for decades is broken. we all agree that medicaid and medicare is right with fraud mismanagement abuse and the government should fix that and move on and see what other incremental changes -- >> hold on here! brad, i want to ask you a question. would you be in favorite of wyden bennett and create a more environment for health insurers so they quit making money at the expense of patients? >> we are for fixing that which

needs fixing. >> do you include that? no, no, the health care insurance companies are profitable to the extent to which they are able to collect money from individuals and not pay it back out for health care. are you in favor of systems that would improve the alignment of the health care system with the interest of actual patients? >> absolutely. but the way you do it is not by creating a government-controlled health care system which is the democrats want to do this. >> what about -- >> what about wyden/bennett? i'm talking about other proposals that would make it more competitive for health insurance companies, brad. would you be in favor of more competitive practices that disallow health insurance companies to make money at the expense of patients? >> within the private sector but not the government controlling health care. the government is already in the health care business and it's absolutely miserable failure. >> it is not an absolute miserable failure. >> you know that. >> we have three other systems of government-run -- brad, three

other systems of government-run systems. the v.a. system that works pretty good and the system of members of congress and federal employees utilize which is pretty good. >> which is the basis for wyden/bennett. >> we have a couple other systems which present a model that seems to be working. the kinds of reform you're talking about, when do we in america become anti-competition? >> we're all for competition. >> we became with competition when huge korngs took over the government, i think. >> when the government took over huge corporations is what we've seen the last -- >> no, no. huge corporations took over the government. why else would we give $23 trillion to the banks, brad? >> we shouldn't be in the business of propping up corporations. what we should be -- >> but we are. >> i know! we shouldn't be doing that! >> it's a miserable failure. >> banks, cars, health insurance companies. >> within all of this we lost focus on the most important thing and that is how do we

deliver better care? more money doesn't mean better care. too many people are paying too much and not getting better care and too many people paying too much and going under. >> the reason it's like that is the government is the employee of large entities and special interests who make money at the expense of people not helping people. >> i think the president is trying to reverse that so the people get put at the center of how we provide effective health care. >> thank you both. brad, thank you. karen, thank you. there has been a deadly attack in afghanistan this morning. contessa what is going on some. >> three civilians dead after a suicide bomber blew up his vehicle near the military airport in kabul. the worst attack by insurgents in the capital since last month's presidential election. the taliban is claiming responsibility. nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel is live in kabul. get us cause up-to-date on what you've learned about this attack, richard, first. >> the attack has been called unsuccessful by nato forces.

this suicide car bomb was trying to enter a nato military airport. it wasn't able to get through the checkpoint and blew up at the checkpoint and killed several civilians. no foreigners killed and several nato soldiers wounded. >> i mentioned the violence around the presidential election. that is a presidential election that is still not resolved and now it looks like the disputes over fraud are growing. what is the latest on this? >> it is getting more complicated by the day. two pieces of somewhat contradictory information about the election, when people went to the polls here last month there was low voter turnout. many allegations of fraud, and the officials in this country have been doling out results a little bit at a time. they've been dribbling in. today they announced more of these partial results and, according to today's tally, of 91% of the votes that have been counted so far, president hamid

karzai has won 54%. that would be enough if the trends continue to secure him the victory. to say there would be no runoff that he won the election outright but just around the same time that the officials said if things continue this way, karzai the next president, a u.n.-backed body said there should be a partial recount of an undisclosed number of votes because there's been consistent evidence of fraud. many of the allegations aimed at president karzai's campaign. >> richard, thanks. a news alert four american soldiers an unknown number of afghans killed in another attack just happened. officials calling this one sophisticated and complex. richard engel will work on getting an update on this one and we'll stay on top of that throughout the day. thousands of commuters in the san francisco bay area can breathe a sigh of relief. the bay bridge reopened this

morning. a crack on the beams forced workers to replace a football field sized section of the span. quick work there. video just in. money! wrong video. money falling from the skies in buoy, maryland. all of the coins swept up from the highway fell out of an armored truck and in a big bag and suddenly the door opened up and the bag flew out and wola! coins from the sky. pennies from heaven, so to speak. mary j. blige and others will perform at a michael jackson concert. the concert will take place on september 26th at vienna's imperial palace. organizers expect 50,000 fans to attend. fried butter wins the prize for the most creative dish at this year's texas state fair in dallas.

butter, 100% pure butter. he sweetens it with several flavors and surrounds it in a special dough and deep fries it! yummy! another treat won honors deep fried peaches with cream. if you had healthy choice like deep pride peaches or deep fried butter, which would you choose? >> dr. nancy and i when we were out to lunch a couple of weeks ago we had deep fried butter. >> i doubt that. >> dr. nancy said eating fried butter prevents swine flu. it's true. no, she did. ask her. >> how about this one? if you're eating fried butter, this might be an omen that awaits you. big old bloomers. not victoria's secret but they are so to speak. enormous pair of linen bloomers, in other words, underwear if you don't know what bloomers are.

they turned. in london and they measure 56 inches in the waist! they were bought from a private collector and will be on display at the kensington palace. they are date from the 18 nights and embroidered with a small crown and initials v.r. which a private collector, when we have people here who are private collectors of women's underwear, we call them weirdos! >> i'm sure they do there as well. i'm not commenting. >> really? nothing? >> nothing. but thank you. >> fried butter. a lot more coming up here on the "morning meeting." congress not getting much love from the american people. they are down in the dumps. is this perhaps momentum building for republicans to make a comeback in 2010? hatfields and mccoys! nate silver will join us coming up with the numbers and the trouble democrats may be facing come 2010.

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no secret congress gets back to work today despite the mountain of issues on the agenda. believe it or not some lawmakers worried about the 2010 campaign as the party empower, probably the democrats the most at risk. a gallup poll taken at the start of the summer break show 2 out of 3 americans disagree what the job congress is doing. on the state level democrats seeing signs of uphill climb. new jersey and virginia only states holding governor races so they may indicate what the party can expect in 2010 in jersey and jon corzine down by 10 percentage points and out in colorado where the president was officially nominated as a democratic candidate for the presidency just one year ago, voters now essentially split on the job he's doing. nate silver, president of the political website 538.com, big

kahuna and most importantly smarty pants and not a partisan cat either which makes me like you that much more. the democrats have a problem here. >> they do. i mean, most parties when they get elected to the white house lose seats in the midterm election but the trend lines are down. we've seen obama's approval ratings go down a point or two since inviting health care. when you're in power, it will hurt you all the the same. >> am i wrong to think there is the opportunity for a third party going into 2010 would be as big as it is ever been? >> i would think so and even maybe more for 2012. i think in 2010 republicans can win seats i'm not a democrat message. in 2012 you have to say people stand for something and i don't think candidates are compelling the ones they have right now. if it's like olympia snow or david petraeus ticket, i don't know or michael bloomberg.

>> they could create a party of bloombergers and people remember conservativism. >> they are not pushing back on gay marriage this time around it's on deficits and things like that. it is more libertarian mood i think we're in right now. >> how do we move ourselves out of the lefty/righty business which is basically a misdirect and people allow the acting control of the government whether the banks, health care insurance companies, agricultural industry, the unions, how do we cover the congress as what they are which is largely a funded entity by special interests? >> we were talking. people should be more aware of people are getting their money from. very good congressmen on both sides that might not agree with you or but are necessarily on board and others are getting some of their money from special interests are not really kind of popular leaders at all and people should know of it and if they still want to elect them,

more power to them but they should know. >> do we do a disservice when they frame their work when the reality is whether they claim to be a democrat or republican they are working for the banks, the unions, whoever it is and that is who they are working for and as a voter you say am i in favor of who work for them? >> is there more information because that dnr is sometimes misleading between al franken and ben nelson more difference between nelson and maybe a moderate republican. >> karen, go ahead. >> there's a couple of other dynamics we need to think about when we look at 2010 which is remember that a lot of the people who voted for obama, they are obama voters. they are not base democratic party voters. so part of the challenge that democratic candidates are going to have in 2010, frankly, will be making their case to those obama voters and trying to get them to vote democratic because, again, many of them were not, you know, base democratic

voters. they see themselves as obama voters and don't see themselves as part of the democratic party. >> she makes a great point. >> thank you! the second point i would make, though, unfortunately, having been at the party for the four years after bush won a second term, i think our party, unfortunately, is starting to lose its voice. i mean, part of what we have here is an opportunity to show the american people that we can be effective leaders and when you've got a democratic party that in and of itself can't seem to get itself together and get behind the president that opens the door for the republicans to say, look, they control everything and they can't get anything done which will be part of their message in 2010. >> nate, go ahead. >> well, think too, if you look what the left blogs are saying, a lot of dissatisfaction with obama think he is not moving fast enough on issues like health care or gay rights or issues like that. tax structure. other people who raise money and knock on doors, i think, for democrats in 2010 if they are unmotivated another problem democrats have on their left

plank. >> i think we ought to create a 7-party system and call it what it is. will you help me do that next year? a. >> absolutely. >> we need a corn party and bank party and know what we are dealing with. >> just say the money party for me. >> we already had the money party and didn't work out so well. thank you nate and karen. up next, the take-away after this. l got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t.

. in all honesty the president's speech on education is an important message. the challenge is writing a speech for kindergartners and through 12th grade. the speech kounds sounds like he is tag talking to a young dylan

ratigan. here is some of the speech. soung talking to a young dylan ratigan. here is some of the speech. talk ratigan. here is some of the speech. here, here. the president at noon speaking to our children.