done almost entirely, if not spirely with democratic votes. that leaves him nowhere to look but in the mirror. when you have outside groups traditionally oppose reform being broadly supportive in the general direction, democrats ultimately, the question is whether they can find a way to come together to bridge their differences enough to govern. that's the responsibility of the majority party especially in a period that is as polarized as this. when you think about the republican zwroert from '95 to 2006, almost always they found a way to get to the majorities to advance their agenda. this is a test where the democrats in congress can come together to do the same thing. >> what's important for presidents is they do things. that's how they get judged. he's got to be able to do something he set out to do. >> 15 seconds, david. off that point, let me ask you. he comes to the nation tomorrow night as president of the united states. in terms of the rhetoric, language, behavior, body language, does he sound more like he did a year ago as candidate than he does as

president? >> he has to reconnect with the leadership that propelled him into office. get the middle of the country, independent of the country on this issue. >> david gregory, ron brownstein, thanks very much. join us tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." right now, it's time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. i'm ed schultz. this is "the ed show." good evening, americans, i'm ed schultz coming to you from washington, d.c., tonight. wooil be here the next few days in the nation's capital because the president has a big week. i'll have a special program tomorrow night here at 11:00 eastern time. first i want to talk about what the president said today. i want the republicans to answer one question tonight. how stupid do you feel now?

the president said today to schoolchildren all across america real basic stuff. bay attention, show up in school, listen to your parents. so new and invo native and it still works. what we saw today was an academic locker room talk that is long overdue from somebody in the oval office. conservatives, you ought to be loving this because he talked about responsibility. here's what the president said. at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents and the best schools in the world and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. gosh, that's almost like ronald reagan, isn't it? you conservatives ought to be loving that. what i found interesting is the president said, whatever you resolve to do, commit to it. whatever you resolve to do, commit to it. that's how you're going to be successful. well, mr. president, there's your speech tomorrow night.

tomorrow night, the president has to speak with tremendous clarity. hold it right there. a public option. how many of you actually know what a public option is? now they throw this word in "trigger." anybody know what a trigger is? here's the bottom line. if the president comes out the way he did on the campaign trail with tremendous clarity, passionate, aggressive, elemeal to the point of demanding he's going to knock it out of the park. the republicans need to know, speaking of school, that recess is over. the american people have figured out all they're doing is protecting the insurance industry. that's what the republicans are doing. that's what they're all about. premiums in this country have more than doubled from $5,800 in 1999 to nearly $13,000 annually for a family of four. 13 grand a year. now, how is a working family, two incomes, couple of kids, how do you handle that? you don't. now, here's how -- here's what

you've been paying for, folks. i've always had this philosophy, check where are own backyard. if you remember the first show i did on msnbc i pulled out my bill and said, gosh, wendy and i got a 22% increase. how about you? well, that started a firestorm of conversation on the prairie in our backyard in north dakota. we found out blue cross blue shield yanking the rates on us. here's what we've been paying for. a 101-page report released today by the insurance commissioner's office. how about $15 million in bonuses? over $1 million of trips to swanky rezorts including a $200,000 trip to the carribean. now, how did blue cross blue shield pay for that? by raising premiums in a time of recession, i think it's disgraceful. check your own backyard. that's what's happening. that's what the republicans are defending. chuck grassley says, oh, we can't give them competition. that would be government-run. you would see a federal agency, have you ever seen a federal agency deal out about $15

million in bonuses? how about if the story in your local stations had, gosh, congressman so-and-so just got a $2 million bonus. how would that go over? this is what's happening in the insurance industry. the republicans are protecting it. a public plan would have real oversight. the republicans ought to be liking that. that way they can watch every dollar like a hawk. i'm all for that. 90 cents of every dollar paid in private premiums in our state of north dakota goes to blue cross & blue shield. this is not a free market, folks. this is a monopoly. robert gibbs said something about aip aindiana the other da% is what insurance company got. competition is good for the consumers, the basic principle of capitalism. until you get some competition -- you're going to get gouged. the president is going to say one thing tomorrow night. if you like your insurance, you can keep it. in other words, if you like

getting gouged, you can keep getting gouged. we're going to get a public option. that's what we've got to have. that's what i think the president has to do tomorrow night. be clear, do it the way he did it on the campaign trail. go to the grassroots. they'll never leave you, mr. president. get your cell phones tonight. what's more important for you to hear? for you to hear tomorrow night on the president's speech? "a," president obama getting tough on republicans. or "b" president obama getting specific on his plan? text "a" for tough. "b" for specific. to 622639. we'll bring you the results later on in the program. now, what's going on in the house? joining me now is congressman john conyers of michigan. congressman, great to have you with us tonight. >> always a pleasure to be here. >> you bet, john. i tell you what, i don't have a stick, but if i did i'd hand it to you. i want to you draw that line in the sand tonight. i know you're a single payer guy and have been and believe in

that. would you accept any bill whatsoever that didn't have a public option? can you give us a definitive on that tonight? any bill that doesn't have a public option, would you sign on to it ? >> this is not going to be a long answer, no. >> no? you mean, barack obama is not going to get your support unless he has a public option? >> well, we should be doing single payer but we've compromised on that and what we're doing now is we're stepping back, but this cannot be called reform of health care if a public option isn't on it and so this is down to the crunch time, and nancy pelosi has been very definitive on it. majority leader reid has come out on it. the majority of the single-payer

people which comprise hundreds of unions, medical people, most doctors are now with us, the nurses, and most of all, the patients, the citizens want it. so, look, the time has come. if you do the math, ed, there are 83 progressive caucus members, 42 black caucus members, 25 hispanic caucus members, 14 asian-pacific members, and most of them are public-option people. now -- >> what about, okay, so you're saying that you've got the numbers to get the public option. a lot of people in the single payer -- you got the numbers to get the public option. i want to hear you say tonight, congressman, it's over for barack obama. your support's gone if he doesn't go public option tomorrow night and specifically

state this. is that correct? >> i wish this could be the first time i've said that, but i've been saying that all the time. >> they're paying attention now. more and more americans are paying attention to this right now. this is i, think a defining moment. you're one of the strongest leaders in the house. you've been around for decades. obviously the president needs you and you're saying -- you're saying tonight that if he doesn't talk public option tomorrow night, john conyers, you're out? >> well, the bill is out in the house. a lot of people are worrying about what the senate is going to do. the reason i gave you these numbers, there isn't one republican -- now, they're voting no for the wrong reason to be sure. but when you add up the numbers that i gave you and then throw in a half, at least, of the blue dogs of which there are 52, he can't get 218 without a public

option. this is simple arithmetic. >> congressman, great to have you with us tonight. congressman john conyers. you just drew a line in the sand, my friend. i've been waiting for that for a long time from the democrats. thanks so much. >> you're welcome, always. >> you bet. joining me now, congresswoman maxine walters. members of the progressive congress. congresswoman, you go along with that math? that's no representative left behind right there. that's what that is. do you go along with that math tonight? >> absolutely. i think your question is very, very clear. you're asking whether or not we will support some other alternative to public option. i want to be very, very clear. i have said over and over again that any comprehensive universal health care plan must have public option or we don't bring down the cost. we don't have any competition. in order to have competition, bring down the cost and not allow the insurance companies to

keep running rampant over the american people, squeezing them for high premiums. we've got to have a public option. i will not vote for anything that does not have a public option. >> amen to that. this is what people who put obama in the white house, this is exactly what they want to hear tonight. it's important that the true democrats stand up and tell it like it is. now, nancy pelosi and harry reid went over and visited with the president today. day one, back to work, he gets the leadership of both houses -- the senate and the house together. here's what nancy pelosi had to say after the meeting. >> okay. >> as the president has said and i listened to him very da carefully, he believes the public option is the best way to deep the insurance companies honest and to increase competition, but he said if you have a better idea, put it on the table and so if somebody has a better idea of how to do that, put it on the table. for the moment, however, as far

as our house members are concerned, the overwhelming majority of them support a public option. >> well, the only better idea on the table in my opinion is single payer. that's not going to happen on the senate side. you'd never get that. >> you're absolutely right. >> so i'm hearing you tell the president, tonight, mr. president, this is what we got to have, or you're not going to have a deal with house democrats. correct? >> oh, absolutely. as a matter of fact, i said in my town hall meeting where there was tremendous support for public option, and still some people angry that we didn't have single payer, i said mr. president, it's time to fight. it's time to stand up for what you believe in and we know that you want public option. we know this is what you would prefer. we know this is what you campaigned on. stand up and we'll be behind you. we got your back. remember that's what i said. i continue to say that. mr. president, we are prepared to fight with you to get public

option, to get a credible universal health care reform bill. we're not going to go along the usual way. this is not backbone politics. this is not politics as usual. this is real change. and that's what we're all about. >> thank you, congresswoman maxine walters. i appreciate your support tonight. >> thank you. >> you bet. a lot of americans, let me define public option for you. all it is is a government-run program that would give the private sector some competition, but pre-existing condition is the key here. no matter what your pre-existing condition is, you would be able to get insurance. now, i'm waiting for the press release from all these big insurance companies that have said all we're going to change. none of them have guaranteed they will start taking patients with pre-existing conditions because they wouldn't make the money they're making. roger simon, chief political columnist for politico with us

tonight here on "the ed show." great to have you with us. you bro a great piece today. i think you drew it in the wine. it's not the wacky left that wants the public option. it is the democratic party. >> absolutely. as you heard from both conniers a and walters, they think they've compromised. they want single payer. that's what the left wing of the democratic party wants. the main string, the democratic wing of the democratic party wants the public option. they think they're never going to get single payer. you have this group of powerful democrats who say, you want us to compromise more? look, the public option is a compromise. that's our line in the sand. without it, health care doesn't work. by can't pay for it. we can't keep costs down. what are we really arguing about? the second factor is, you know, obama can't trade away -- president obama can't trade away people like conyers and waters, nor to get republicans votes

he's never going to get. the fact, two senators from maine, he's not going to get any republican votes? >> roger, are we witnessing right now a perfect political strategy? the president has brought in the republicans. they've been sounding off for months. he was very patient, moved the deadline back. we went through august. he's spoken, i think, with clarity in august about all these crazies that are out there. now he's got everybody's attention and now when everybody's watching he's going to finally weigh in on this thing. are we seeing a perfect political blueprint here? >> we've got to hope. that's the best thing that could come out of tomorrow's speech. a very august formal setting. congress -- >> can't get bigger than that. >> with all the senators crammed in there. it worries me. we don't need a state of the union speech with slices of rhetoric. your suggestion, a address from an oval office, might have been

better. he's going to do it from congress. i think it's got to be heavy on specifics, not rhetoric. none of it has been more private than how barack obama feels about the public option. is it just a silver of a plan? is it a be all and end all? tell us. take a few minutes to tell us how you're going to pay for it. >> you bring up the point. was he dangling information out there to get reaction from everybody? now he's got everybody? he's going to bring it in, lay it on the line, this is what we have to have to make this happen. >> it was not unreasonable for him in the beginning to pursue bipartisanship as a general policy. when you get republican after republican to say i won't vote for a bill if it has a public option. you say, okay, there's no public option. they still won't vote for it. who are you arguing with? the only bipartisanship going on is within the democratic party. it's between the moderates and the left wing. i mean, that's where the bargaining is going on in this.

>> roger, thanks for joining us. see you tomorrow night. 11:00 eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, finance committee chairman max baucus, now he's ditched the public option totally. now, that's not sitting well with everybody. two key members of the committee, senators wane wiben and debbie stabenow joins me. president obama had better crank it up a notch tomorrow night or the net roots, are they going to leave him? and you won't want to miss "psycho talk." if the drug ster didn't do a double dose today i'll set him straight in "psycho talk." but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet.

and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. right tig obstructionist chuck grassley is mooning about proposed cuts in health care reform. i say i don't care what it costs.

i've said that from day one. republican senator john boras sew going to go head to head with me. more than any other brand... of pain reliever. tylenol rapid release gels... release medicine fast. so you can stop headaches... and feel better fast.

welcome back to "the ed show." here's the latest. the senate finance committee's gang of six, they met this afternoon and tried to get a deal on health care reform before president obama's big speech tomorrow night. now, committee chairman max baucus has finally distributed a plan. not to the white house, first. distributed a plan that he thinks can get bipartisan support. meanwhile, a new poll suggesting americans are heavily divided along party lines on health care. gosh, how surprising? 68% of democrats want their representatives in congress to support a reform bill.

72% of republicans want them to vote against reform. okay. hold it right there. let's see. we're divided as a nationing on health care. we won and they lost. okay. let's go. looks like it might be time for the democrats to get her done all by themselves. joining me now, democratic member of that finance committee on the senate side, senator ron wyden of oregon. good to have you be us tonight. >> many thanks, eds. >> all right. i want to know about this baucus plan that ended up on kay street first before it got over to the white house. is that any signal at all to you there's really no genuine effort on a bipartisan agreement? what do you think? >> ed, first of all, this is just a starting point. this isn't the end point. there are plenty of areas of improvement. it starts with the comment robert gibbs made yesterday, the white house communications man. he said 180 million people wouldn't be eligible for the public ogs.

our figures are it's more like 225 million people. we need real choices for the consumer. that's how you're going to hold the insurance industry accoun n accountab accountable. that's how you get real reform. that's what i'm going to get out of the senate finance k. >> you're saying 180 million or 220 million people would not benefit from the public option? which whatever number it is, senator, at least they're going to have a choice. right now they don't have a choice in many respects it's a pre-existing condition. so why wouldn't a public option be the right way to go? >> let's make sure people have real choice, ed, like members of congress. it's a no brainer to me to outlaw these pre-existing conditions. >> hold it right there. senator, hold it right there. that's a key point because i haven't seen any insurance executives step to the microphones and say, hey, we're taking all people with pre-existing conditions, those are gone. so how can there be real reform with that one point you just

mention eed unless they do that? there won't be any reform. >> ed, i very much want to make this a bipartisan bill. if we can't get republicans to support something, which i call no-braining cer consumer protec go it alone. what we're going to hear tomorrow night from the president of the united states is that it is time. these premiums are gobbling up everything in sight. i do think the finance committee bill needs to be strengthened in terms of the provisions that will hold people's premiums down. i'm going to do everything i can to make this a bipartisan bill. if we can't do that, the democrats are going to generate the support. >> the question is, is the president tomorrow night willing to leave all republicans behind if they don't want to go along the freight train of reform for the american people? speaking of that, harry reid met be the president today and came out and talked about reconciliation after that. >> we're still approaching this in the form of bipartisanship.

we still, after all these months, have a place at the table for the republicans. we're going to do everything we can to work with them. we want a bipartisan bill. we do not want to do reconciliation unless we have no alternative. >> well, i'll tell you where the democrats are. the lefties in this country say, heck, yes, go to reconciliation. senator, you held a couple of town hall meetings. what did you hear during the recess? >> people are saying, get this done. they understand that fixing the economy and health care are two sides of the same coin. the reason people's take-home pay isn't going up is because it all goes to health care. i think the things that the president is going to be talking about in the days ahead, particularly more choices for the consumer and also competition. those are things that are going to resonate with the country, resonate across the political spect trum. that's what i'm going to be building support for with my amendments in the finance committee. >> i understand mr. baucus said you've got until 10:00 tomorrow morning to bring additions to

his bill. so obviously it's going to be a big news day again tomorrow. of course, the president speaking tomorrow night. senator, good to have you with us. appreciate your time. all the best to you. you bet. coming up, the drugs ter needs a dose of reality. he's comparing president obama to north degrkorean dictator ki jong-il. i'll set him straight in "psycho talk." this is my small-business specialist, tara. i know landscaping, but i didn't know how wireless could help my business. i just don't know how wireless can help my business. tara showed me how i could keep track of my employees in the field and get more jobs done faster. i was blown away. i'm blown away. only verizon wireless has small-business specialists in every store to help you do business better. we should get you a hat. now buy any blackberry, like the new tour,

at our lowest prices ever, and get one free. we will not be quiet. ♪ when we're in a sandwich, you'll know it. we are our own mixed up blend of one of a kind spices. we are miracle whip. and we will not tone it down. the rest of the body is a no brainer. doesn't your whole body deserve excedrin strength relief?

excedrin back & body. excedrin. what ache? was it really for fun, or to save money on heat? why? don't you think nordic tuesday is fun? oh no, it's fun... you know, if you are trying to cut costs, fedex can help. we've got express options, fast ground and freight service-- you can save money and keep the heat on. great idea. that is a great idea. well, if nordic tuesday wasn't so much fun. (announcer) we understand. you need to save money. fedex

time for another addition of "psycho talk. kbt "it's the drug ster back in the zone tonight. rush is still taking swipes at president obama's speech to students today. hmm, what would rush know about talking to kids? he doesn't have any. most republicans have backed off the original criticisms of the speech. they realized criticizing an encouraging speech would make them look flat-out student. newt gingrich endorsed the speech. rush limbaugh doesn't worry about things like reality, kind of like a certain north korean dictator. >> original intent of the speech was, you know, a dear leader kind of thing. right out of the pages of dictator in north korea, kim skbrong ill. write a letter to kbrours about how you can help me. >> pot belly dictator. that seems more like the drug

ster than president obama. right wing crazies have blown this letter writing issue way out of proportion. the president wanted to engage students to give them a writing exercise they'd be able to express themselves, you know, composition, english composition and say what they would do to contribute to their country. any logical person could see that. the drug ster managed to take something positive and inject in his own evil way negative stuff. during the same show rush saidth president obama speech to students was, quote, 100% conservative in its message. let me get this straight. first the president was originally going to deliver a socialist message but then all of a sudden it ended up to be something completely different like a conservative speech? even by the drugster's standards, that is "psycho talk." coming up, the gang of six, republican senator mike enzi

says he's pretty sure health reform is going to fail. i want to know who he's speaking for. would that be all republicans? his colleague, john barrasso, goes head to head with me coming up in just a moment. the net roots stood behind the president and got him into office. if he turns his back on a public option, they may turn his back on him. coming up on "the ed show" right here on msnbc. so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 extra strength tylenol every 4 to 6 hours?!? taking 8 pills a day... and if i take it for 10 days -- that's 80 pills. just 2 aleve can last all day. perfect. choose aleve and you can be taking four times... fewer pills than extra strength tylenol. just 2 aleve have the strength to relieve arthritis pain all day. still haven't tried activia?

listen to this story. my problem was occasional irregularity. my commercials didn't convince you? i am definitely a skeptic. actually, my mom convinced me. and i have activia every morning for breakfast. activia definitely helped with my occasional irregularity. activia is clinically proven to help regulate your digestive system in two weeks when eaten every day. chances are someone you trust can recommend activia. take the activia challenge. it works or your money back! ♪ activia! it works or your money back! ♪ ♪ which one's me - for a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪

if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture.

i want a health insurance system that works as well for the american people as it does for the insurance industry. they should be free to make a profit but they also have to be fair. they also have to be accountable. >> that was president obama speaking to labor unions yesterday on labor day. he's got to remember what they want. he wants to hold insurance

companies accountable. that's not being socialist or anti-capitalist. they've got a monopoly. okay, 90 cents of every dollar in the private premiums in the state of north dakota goes to blue cross blue shield. where is the competition? premiums have really more than doubled, but families can't go elsewhere to get a better deal. democrats want to protect the american families from price gouges. appears to be the republicans want to protect the insurance industry's profits. tomorrow night both sides will make their case to the american people. president obama will deliver what i hope is a fiery speech to the congress with some passion, with some real directness to those who have been lying on a campaign trail. louisiana congressman and dr. charles bustani will deliver the republican response. this is an elected official who believes there are questions about whether the president was born in the united states. for more, let me turn to

republican senator john barrasso of wyoming, also a doctor. a while since the last time you and i got into it, senator. let's make one ground rule here tonight. don't tell me that -- don't tell me that a government agent is going to get between me and my doctor. let's just put that off limits for this conversation. now, i want to point out, today, the president was speaking to school kids and a kid got up and asked him this question. here's the question from the school kid. here it is. >> hi, my name is sean. my question is currently 36 countries have universal health coverage, iraq and afghanistan, which have it paid for by the united states. why can't the united states have universal health coverage? >> senator, i'd like you to answer that question. >> well, you take a look at universal health coverage. people come to the united states for health care if they can afford it.

people come here because our survival rates for cancer are the highest in the world. people come here because we have the highest quality of care. we need to do more to get the insurance cost down for american families, for small businesses. we need to get the cost of care down. >> how do we do that? >> do a couple of things. one, you were starting to talk about insurance companies and the lack of competition in m.noh dakota, ed. people ought to shop across state lines to buy insurance. see ads for geico and other insurance companies, why not for health insurance? president obama -- people in the senate voted against that. why should we penalize people who buy their own insurance? >> you're telling our audience tonight it's against the law for residents of some states to buy ñqv

more, $600 a year more because of the maine plan compared to new hampshire plan. people would love to be able to shop around and look and see what they want to buy. for sake of moving the conversation on, is there anything you would go along with with a government-run insurance plan when the american people want it? the american people want it. why not just let the president have what he wants? if you like your insurance, you can keep. . what's wrong with that? >> i don't believe that's what the american people want. i've been having town ham meetings, five different states.

lots of meetings listening to people. i tell you, people show up because they are absolutely concerned about their future. their health future. also the future of the country. as james carville said, it's the economy stupid. people are worried about the incredible amount of spends, incredible amount of debt. i think a government -- go ahead, ed. >> senator they're also worried about pre-existing conditions. are you willing to tell us tonight this reform that's going to take place is going to have insurance companies all of a sudden get down on bended knee and say, gosh, we've been making a mistake, we're going to take everybody who's got a pre-existing condition, because obama wants us to. do you think that's going to happen? it's not going to happen. >> if you take a look at this 1,000-page bill, ed, and the secretary of health and human services says don't be distracted by the details. you had representative conyers on earlier that said, read the bill, why should i take the bill? it takes two lawyers to explain it to me.

you need to know what's in the bill. >> senator, you're a medical doctor. >> one of your previous guests said, maxine waters, i don't think the american people want a universal plan, a plan where you have canadian or british health care. >> sure they do. absolutely they do. those folks are very happy. as far as reading the bill -- it was your colleague, senator enhauf of oklahoma wasn't going to read it because he wasn't going to vote for it anyway. we're getting -- wait a minute. you are a medical doctor. i know you've read books that are over 1,000 pages long. this is what you guys in the congress are paid to do is to read the bills. it shouldn't take you -- you ought to be able to go on vacation for three days. you just had a month. go down there and read the bill. i can't accept you saying it's too long, we can't read it. >> that's what representative conyers said. i say people ought to read the bills because the detail is in

the bills. kathleen sebelius says don't be distracted by the details. this is a personal thing for every american. their lives are at stake. believe they want to know what the details are in the bill. i hope people vote "b" on your question tonight, that the president ought to be specific with his plan. because that's what i think the american people want to hear. that's certainly what i want to hear. >> senator john barrasso. great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, ed. >> lets bring in our panel. bill press, nationally syndicated radio talk show host. a.b. stoddard, editor of the hill. ernie isikoff, republican from oklahoma, distinguished fellow at the heritage foundation. ernie, don't tell me a government agent is going to get between me and the doctor? you know that's not true. >> the idea of government having an insurance company that competes with private insurance companies is like putting a

rabbit in a cage with a wolf. >> what is it right now? ernie, what it is right now? you have got obscene profits, gouging going on. a little competition could change that. the insurance industry isn't going to reform itself. >> if you look at the profits, the average profitability of health insurance companies is like 3.5% return on investment. it's way down the list if you look at "forbes" or "fortune" with the list of most profitable companies. there are a lot of tricky statistics used. let's not do this by attacking the insurance companies. the big difference is this, 260 million americans have health care insurance and don't want it to be jeopardized. >> the president says you can keep it. >> your employer picks it for you. >> a.b., what's the president got to do tomorrow night? does he have to be direct? >> well, i think, as bill has made the case to me that he -- i was asking earlier about why

he's going to continue to straddle the public option though it looks like he doesn't have the vote for it in his own party. can't make it into a final bill that becomes law. i guess he's going to still say he supports that. he has to be very specific, i think, about a tax increase. what is going to be the driver that pays for any -- >> we're going to tax ernie. we're going to tax ernie. >> i think that's very important -- >> 10%. >> ed, the members of the house are very concerned about -- democrats are very concerned going into next year's elections about supporting tax increases that won't make it into a final bill or through the senate. they want specifics on that. what is the revenue raiser? how are you going to -- >> tax cuts, get $800 billion over the next eight year. that's the bottom line. what does the president have to do? maxine waters and john conyers drew their line in the sand. what do you think? >> the way i see it, foreplay is over, right? we're getting to the main event now.

i think the president yesterday said it's time to decide, it's time to act. i'd add, it's time to take charge. time for barack obama to take charge and get up there. you know what i want to see tomorrow night? i don't want to see a guy that looks like a president. i want to see a guy who was at the labor union yesterday. roll up his shirt sleeves, let's get to work and get it done. here's what i want. put the public option plan out there and say we need the public plan option if we're going to cut costs. if we're going to get the low-end cost from private insurance plans and public insurance plans. this is the only way to do it. emphasize the cost. i'd love to hear him say, i'm not going to sign a bill unless you give me a public option. he'd get a standing ovation from the democrats. screw the republicans. they're not going to vote for it. >> the problem is, of course, you've got some other democrats that don't want that. >> they'll lose next year. >> well, the -- like you said, that's another debate there, ed.

but i think the president is going to show the passion. >> here's the problem. the blue dog democrats. they say, oh, we'll have a problem if we go out there and vote for this. go out there and say i voted for the status quo. say i voted for nothing. >> they don't want the status quo. in fairness to the blue dog democrats who are going to lose primaries and general elections next year and the democratic party will not be in the majority. >> i don't buy that. >> they represent most of the marginal districts. 1-0, particularly they are at risk. i -- you're wrong about them not wanting health care. they actually want a bill. they want a consumer protection bill and they want to force republicans' hands on a consumer protection bill. they don't want a public option. they want a bill. >> final point i would just say. you put the test to them and say you're going to have to vote for this or it's nothing. they'll vote for it. >> great panel. great discussion. obviously you're coming back with us. next up, after the tough

summer he's had, president obama has got to hit one out of the park tomorrow night. i wish i could write the speech. anyway, if he does, it will ignite a net root firestorm that will help blaze the path to real reform. the founder of the daily coast will join me in my "play book." - a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. pothole:h no...your tire's all flat and junk.

oh, did i do that? here, let me get my cellular out - call ya a wrecker. ...oh shoot...i got no phone ...cuz i'm a pothole...so....k, bye! anncr: accidents are bad. anncr: but geico's good. with emergency road service. ding! it's still not too late to see what you think about this issue. tonight's text survey is what most important thing the president can do in his speech tomorrow night? "a," percent say get tough on republicans. "b" percent say be specific about the plan. text "a" for tough, "b" for specific at 622639. these days, wouldn't it be great

if saving money happened as automatically as everything else? at bank of america, it practically does. use the bankamericard power rewards visa credit card and earn rewards like cash back with every purchase. cash you can put into savings. or even use to help pay down your credit card balance. it's one of the many ways we make saving money in tough times a whole lot easier. spend 10 minutes a month with natural instincts. it's the healthier way to blend away gray and give you color that shines on. how? the antioxidant rich

ammonia-free formula feels good and looks even better. in fact the more often you use natural instincts, the healthier your hair looks. it's the healthy-looking color that shines in just ten minutes' time. natural instincts, it's all good. look for natural instincts new champagne indulgence collection. from clairol. getting an early flu shot is the best thing you can do... to protect you and your loved ones from the flu. it's also one of the easiest things you can do... because walgreens is now offering seasonal flu shots... every day of the week with convenient hours guaranteed. so you can just stop in. our 16,000 dedicated pharmacists... and take care clinic nurse practitioners... are waiting to help you beat the flu... in neighborhoods nationwide. at walgreens we want you to know, there's a way to stay well. in my "playbook" tonight,

you're supposed to dance with the one who brung you, right? the old country saying. the net roots went to bat for barack obama big-time. the barack obama campaign ran the biggest most sophisticated internet operation seen in american politics. it was built on the base of the liberal blogs. now it seems they're being told their priorities have to take a back seat to what blue dogs and republicans want. i don't buy it, don't like it. joining me now, the founder of the publisher of "the daily coast." is the online community going to stay with barack obama if he does not go strong for a public option tomorrow night? >> well, i got to say that right now what we're hoping is that obama simply delivers on the promises he made during his campaign, promises that are good policy, are still very popular with the american people and were endorsed by the american people in the way of historically large congressional

and white house majority. the american people delivered on the message of change they could believe in, delivered on the message of reforming the health care system. now -- >> where do you think the pulse of the progressive community is? there's got to be a level of expectations for tomorrow night. the recess is over. the republicans have said who they are, what they are and what they don't want to do. i know there's got to be expectations out there in the progressive blogosphere. >> we're tired of waiting. there's no doubt about that. i think there are people who sort of hope that obama does the right thing and some of them that expect obama to do the right thing. we all -- at the end of the day we want obama to do the right thing. we're not very hopeful given the last couple months, given the sort of lack of message discipline from the white house, the vast number of democrats willing to compromise against each other. they're not even negotiating with republicans. they're negotiating with each other. it gets really tiresome. really when you have a campaign

and a presidency built on hope and on getting rid of cynicism, there would be no greater return of cynicism than to show the lobbyists in the insurance companies have won this debate as opposed to the american people who would most benefit from health care reform. >> tomorrow night, if he comes out tomorrow night and points to the republicans and says, you've been lying to the american people, maybe not that -- that would be ed talk. that's not president obama talk. but, i mean, to really nail them on how the disinformation campaign has mixed up a lot of people in this country. the only way we're going to get this thing taken care of is to make sure the pre-existing condition is gone. it would seem to me that the blogosphere would turn on the president if he doesn't do that. >> it would be pretty ugly. i can't say otherwise. this is sort of the defining issue outside of the war in iraq. this is the defining democratic issue. if you cannot deliver on health care, even though you have these incredible large historically

large majorities in congress and the white house and large public mandate, if you cannot deliver on basic reform -- we're not talking what we really wanted. we really wanted single payer. we already compromised from our position. we already gave up on a pref preferred option. the public option at this point is sort of our waterloo. this is where we stand and fight. >> marcos, founder and publisher of "the daily kos." coming up, there is no state in the nation that feels the economic crisis more than the state of michigan. senator debbie stabenow joins me next. vegetables are naturally low in calories. v8 juice gives you 3 of your 5 daily servings. it's a tasty, nutritious way to make this number go up...

and help this one go down. v8. what's your number? it's an idea that makes america strong. it's a fair day's pay for a hard day's work. it's health insurance when you're sick or injured. it's job security to provide for your family. it's the fabric of a sound economy. it built the middle class. and it's what the employee free choice act is all about... letting workers choose to join a union to earn better pay and benefits. the employee free choice act. it's time the economy worked for everyone again.

big news today. majority leader harry reid doesn't want to use reconciliation of the senate unless there's no other alternative. joining me now, debbie stabenow. thanks for being with us tonight. can your folks in begun been wait another three, four maybe five years for a public option? i mean, president obama has talked about the urgency of now, the sense of urgency to get this thing done. can your folks in michigan wait that long to get something done on health care? >> well, ed, no. we absolutely can't. we have to get something done. i would broaden the discussion and say we have to stop the insurance company practices, lower costs, give people more

choices, create a real safety net for low-income people. there's a lot of things we need to do. a public health choice is a very important part of that. you're looking at somebody who would vote right now for medicare for all americans. i start from a very different position. it is broader than just an option that is a public option even though i support it strongly. >> okay. what about reconciliation? what if it comes down in the c. they're owl there. you know where the republicans are. yaw don't want to do it. are you ready to tell harry reid, we're ready to go with oust this? are you going to be online to go for reconciliation? >> if we have no other choice, if we can't get the whole package we want, then, yes, as far as i'm concerned, we need to use reconciliation if we need to. here's what i'm worried about, ed. i've been looking for seriously at all of the details on reconciliation. we can add coverage for people under this