♪ we can work it out, we can work it out ♪ i believe that a public option will be eis entoshl our passing a bill. >> if we want a bipartisan bill we do not want to do reconciliation unless we have no alternative. >> welcome to "morning joe." happy wednesday to you. it is a big day, a big day

politically for the president, a big day actually for the country, the president tonight going to be addressing the country on health care reform, and despite what harry reid said there, the majority leader of the united states senate, it does not sound, if you believe in this, or reports to be right leaking out that the president is going to reach for any bipartisan support. the president appears, according to the "wall street journal" to be heading towards a plan that nancy pelosi and harry reid will like, but certainly not many republicans, pushing for a public option. very interesting, micah, also, news regarding afghan. >> the afghan vote was fixed in a big way. we're getting more information about fake polling sites and other things so they're going to have to recount some of those votes. we'll talk about afghanistan coming up. >> no doubt about it. mike barnacle is with us, the

president's speech tonight very important and sounds as if the president is once again going to play with his base and go with the public option. >> at this stage, who can blame him? this spectacle over the past few days over the school speech that occurred with very few people on the republican side of the aisle standing up saying this is ridiculous, who can blame him for saying you know something? they're never going to go with me on anything. >> that's one take. first, micah, here's the news. >> time for a look at today's top stories and a rare prime time address to congress this evening, president obama will lay out his prescription to o r overhaul the nation's health care system. according to aides he will press for a public health care option. >> the president has said and i listened to him very carefully, he believes that the public option is the best way to keep the insurance companies honest, and to increase competition.

but, he said, if you have a better idea, put it on the table. and so somebody has a better idea of how to do that, put it on the table. for the moment, however, as far as our house members are concerned, the overwhelming majority of them support a public option. >> we're going to get a preview of the president's push from white house press secretary robert gibbs, who will join us coming up later in the show and msnbc will have live coverage of the president's address tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. today's address follows another closely watched presidential speech, this one on tuesday, to the nation's schoolchildren. everyone okay? your kids going to school? >> no. >> you didn't do it. although some critics saw it as an attempt to influence future voters. the speech steered away from politics and toward personal responsibility. nbc's kevin tibbles reports. >> reporter: the president took his stay in school message

directly to students at wakefield high in arlington, virginia. >> every single one of you has something to offer, and you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. that's the opportunity an education can provide. >> reporter: from coast to coast, students listened in, via c-span and the internet, including in the midwest, at the prairie middle school outside chicago. >> after he speaks, will you have an opportunity to express your opinion. >> reporter: what he said was all about individual responsibility. >> if you quit on school, you're not just quitting on yourself, you're quitting on your country. >> children should have the right to hear him speak, and let our children decide what they think about it. >> if it's just going to be about education, that's fine. stay away from our children when it comes to trying to push your political agendas. these are our kids and we will talk to them about political

happenings. >> reporter: in texas, the local high school did not show the address so parent ellen duncan and others kept their kids home to watch. >> it really is heart-breaking to me that we're not giving them a chance to be inspired by a man who is inspirational, regardless of how you feel about his politics. >> no one's written your destiny for you, because here in america, you write your own destiny. >> reporter: across the country, the president's young audience focused on different parts of the speech, from atlanta. >> he really motivated me a lot to keep trying, like never give up at all. >> reporter: to the eighth grade history class at prairie middle school. you think the president was talking to you? >> yeah, he said "you" a lot. >> reporter: he did say "you" a lot, didn't he? and what about the fuss? >> all of the controversy was, after seeing the speech kind of useless because he didn't say anything about policy and he didn't say any of his ideas. he basically said if you try hard you can succeed. >> reporter: the president played professor telling school kids not to quit on themselves

or their country. kevin tibbles, nbc news, barrington, illinois. >> we're going to move on with news in just a minute. but this has been the most ridiculous controversy i've seen so far and it's a bad sign to me. >> you know what's interesting, i got a lot of e-mails yesterday from a lot of people, a lot of links to outrage stories from teachers unions, national newspapers, and a lot of democrats who even wanted to conduct an investigation in 1991 -- let me finish -- when george bush did the same exact thing. then it was the left wing and the mainstream media that was outraged that george bush would think about politicizing school by delivering a speech in class in 1991. now, everything's okay with that. i've got to say, i thought it was okay in 1991, and i think it's okay now, but all of these people wringing their hands. >> oh, my gosh, i don't know.

>> i'm sorry, the only difference is -- >> school districts? >> the only difference is that in 1991, the mainstream media was outraged that a president was speaking in class. this time, they're going, what's the big deal? what's the big deal? so obviously you can understand why a lot of conservatives -- >> might be a little frustrated. that's a good point. different angle of looking at it. a u.n. is ordering a recount of ballots in afghanistan after finding "convincing evidence of fraud in last month's presidential election." returns gave president hamid karzai 54% of the vote. nbc's richard engel who has been embedded with the army stryker brigade brings us this report from the southern part of the country. >> reporter: it's a disturbing first image, just moments after joining u.s. troops in southern

afghanistan, we witness a m medevac chopper, lifted an american wounded. the killer here is always the same, ieds, they're up 115% over last year, killing american troops in record numbers. the soldiers from the army's strykerberry dade have lost nine pen in three weeks in the argandop valley, a taliban stronghold outside kandahar, all ied. >> anti-personnel ieds, anti-vehicular ieds, they could be anywhere and anything that looks out of the ordinary. >> mike, a u.n. panel finds fraud in the afghanistan election. is this war trouble for generals and politicians that want to send more troops to afghanistan to prop up this government? >> i think it's more trouble for us, for the united states. because we have set a bar here

in terms of what we want to achieve and accomplish in afghanistan, and we're going to be lucky, it appears, to get over a hurdle this high, and the idea that we expect to have free elections, unobstructed elections, clean elections in afghanistan, a country that derives most of its income from the heroin, tribal trade is ludicro ludicrous. the fact they had an election is promising, the fact cooke county, not surprising. >> dexter filkins says you can't threaten to bomb them back to the third century because they're in the third century now. this is such a primitive culture that the thought that we can export jeffersonian democracy there. >> you can get a real sense of it and dexter's book "forever more." the federal reserve is reporting record declines in borrowing, as american consumers continue to rein in their new

debt. credit was slashed more than $21 billion from june, the most since 1943. analysts are surprised the government's cash for clunkers program failed to ease cutbacks in other areas of lending. >> banks aren't really loaning. >> it doesn't appear so, mike? >> mike -- i don't know thousand works for bank of america but a lot of people say they'd like to invest in business, they'd like a credit card and like this and that, but banks, and i think this say good thing, call me the grinch, banks are being a lot more careful with who they loan money to. >> if you look at the front pages of every american newspaper over the past month, rising unemployment, consistent unemployment. how are you going to apply for a loan when joblessness continues to rise? how are you going to get a loan when the new capital requirements placed upon banks that they have to have more money literally in escrow in order to continue to operate, that the federal government wants them to have?

they're not going to loan the way they did two or three years ago and you're absolutely right this is not a bad thing. this country is going through a big change in how we live. we save now far more than we did two years ago. >> our savings rate up to 7% from zero% percent. >> right. >> what we're having now, people aren't getting as many credit cards, not getting as much credit and you don't have people buying -- getting a credit card to pay off a debt on another credit card, that pays off debt on another credit card that pays a monthly bill. >> right, exactly and teenagers who usually get the credit cards, just give them the little cards with a certain amount of money on them and send them off. that's all you need to get. my sister-in-law's doing it. >> i give my son a card with $3 and a big bag of rocks, that's all you need. >> how many times have all of us been in the store and watch younger people swipe the card, it's a cashless society. they think things are free.

>> they think everything is free. moving on here an independent panel appointed by the president says without a big boost in funding, nasa won't be back on the moon for decades. instead the committee favors a steppingstone approach aimed at reaching mars without setting any goal for completion and officials in l.a. say a group of firefighters managed to escape without injury after their truck was swallowed by a sink hole. this would go in the category of cool video. the crew was responding -- >> it is cool, come on. >> the crew was responding to a water main break when the road collapsed. it was the second burst water line in the area, just so you know, in less than 72 hours, raising new concerns about the aging system. >> let me tell you something, willy, that driver, i guarantee you, had a sinking feeling. >> okay, we have a big show this morning. white house press secretary robert gibbs --

>> wasn't that good? >> here's the question we'll be asking all morning, what obama needs to do tonight in a speech before a joint session of congress 8:00 eastern time here on msnbc. also ahead, we'll learn more about how auto bailout money is being spent. elizabeth warren will be here and katrina vandenheuvel explains what president obama must say to reclaim the health care debate. >> i think she'll be happy the president's going left. >> in a few minutes, john meacham in the politico's forecast for the day. it's all ahead on "morning joe." >> tong watch the rain along the mid -- ♪ i wish i knew then what i know now.

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a lot of people were upset, they said obama was going to get in the classrooms and brainwashing the kids. no, no thank you, we don't want

it. it will be brainwashing the kids. that's what he's doing. at first i was skeptical but i was talking to my son after he came home from school today honest to god he said "must have socialized medicine. must have socialized medicine." >> we're back with "morning joe" bill started prematurely, but it's now time -- >> premature. don't want to be using -- >> now it's time. >> i'm always late, micah, thanks. for work. ooh, what's going on? let's just skip weather today. let's look at what we're dealing on the end of long island, a little bit of light rain, bring the umbrella, light chance of showers in many areas. philadelphia up through new york maybe some drizzle.

buffalo to albany mostly cloudy today. beautiful weather stretches over from the mid-atlantic to new england. next couple of days more like fall. big storms for your travels at the airport, minneapolis, kansas city, new orleans, san antonio, miami and maybe even there are some showers in seattle. i think that's enough. >> he's finished really soon. very quick. >> oh, man, you can't make this stuff up. >> he's a minuteman up there. all right. so willie, why don't you make us somebody that can go on longer than a minute. >> somebody with credibility for god sakes. politico's patrick gavin, he's got a look at the "morning playbook." >> good morning, i'm here, premature and ready.

let me get that in one for time. >> keep this ball rolling, why not? >> beating a dead horse. one more bite i want to play you here, patrick, talking about max baucus, wants to get it done before obama's speech tonight to see if they can compromise on this. let's listen to robert gibbs with chuck todd talking about the work max baucus has been doing. >> i was told that k street had a copy of the baucus plan, not surprisingly the special interests have gotten a copy of the plan that i understand was given to committee members today. we haven't seen what was dispersed today. >> k street got it, you guys haven't? >> not surprisingly, yes. >> patrick, what's the take-away on this? >> the democrat finance chairman, what is up? >> why? >> basically what's going to happen is before obama's speech tonight we're going to have a

big development that will affect the speech which is max baucus, head of the senate finance committee, democrat from montana told the gang of six, the all-important gang of six he wants thought on his compromise bill by 10:00 a.m. now, based on that feedback, he'll either decide i think we can get some republican support or we won't and the gang of six will forget about it. this has two seconds on tonight's speech, one, the baucus plan, if it succeeds, does not have a public option but it will have republicans. if it doesn't succeed obama has to go alone but he gets the public option, all of which has positives and negatives to it, too, but obama, even though some people say off the record that obama doesn't necessarily need to have a public option and they even said that publicly as well, democrats especially in the left wing of his party insist on it but at the same time obama wants the republicans, so keep your eyes focused on 10:00 a.m. and sort of in the hours following to see what max baucus says about the feedback he got on his

compromise bill which seems one of the only ways to get republicans on board. >> patrick, the "wall street journal" is reporting that barack obama is going to go for a public option in tonight's speech. is that reporting premature? >> it's not premature. i think it's accurate. the problem is, i think there say little bit of a gap between what obama and the white house say publicly and what they're saying privately. a lot of folks in the white house say we don't realistically expect the public option. nancy pelosi says it remains essential. a lot of people in the democratic party leadership say it's essential. obama, i think he will say it nice that we want a public option but at the end of the day in order to get a bill passed and possibly to get republican support he may have to settle for something less than that. >> mike barnicle, aren't you stunned that the white house spokesman attacked the chairman of the finance committee there? i know people on the far left don't like max baucus because he doesn't live in san francisco or manhattan. he actually lives in a state where you've got to be moderate

to get reelected, but to go after and attack him, basically saying he is owned by k street, owned by the lobbyists, that's pretty surprising to me. these are bridges that you burn that you don't build back. >> well, i mean, we were sitting here and we just heard that clip and i did react in somewhat of a state of surprise. i have never heard a press secretary, and relike robert, he's a terrific guy, but i mean, hitting, throwing right at max baucus. he was throwing right at him, knocking him out of the batter's box on that one. >> that's what we're, in turn thinking, baby. just remember, tip o'neil, never forgave jimmy carter for giving him bad seats at the inauguration! and he wrote about it in his memoir. >> he remembers. >> everybody remembers in washington. max baucus will, he'll remember as well. >> what were you saying parks trick in. >> you can sort of understand where gibbs is coming from. the white house is saying we want congress to send us a bill.

they haven't gotten the bill and all of the sudden they're hearing lobbyists on k street have. got to be frustrating. >> but you deal with it behind the scenes unless you want to start a civil war within your own party. wait, he's only the chairman of the finance committee so he's not that power --ful. wait a second. >> oh, wait, sorry, one of the most powerful guys on the hill. >> thanks so much. we'll ask robert gibbs about that in about an hour. thanks a lot, check out the rest of your news on politico.com. >> thanks for that. that was great. you know i don't get that. so today is -- >> a big day. >> andrew scarborough called me last night as he always does at 11:54 p.m. >> thank you. >> knowing that i wake up in three hours, to tell me that today is 09-09-09. >> it is. >> which means only one thing, big beatles day. beatles rock band is coming out today and something i'm more excited about, the remastered beatles albums are out, and as a

beatle nut i'm going to be spending time alone. >> you're actually challenging people on the radio on our radio show this morning to try to stop him on beatlemania, 10:00 a.m. to noon, wnbcradio.com. here is to get you ready, donna friesen reports. ♪ he was just 17 >> reporter: they were the world's most influential and popular rock band. ♪ i'll always be true >> reporter: john, paul, george and ringo launched a musical revolution. ♪ love me do >> reporter: and 40 years after they split they're back, but not as we knew them. ♪ it's been a hard day's night ♪ can't buy me love, everybody tells me so ♪ >> reporter: it's the beatles rock band. the fab four digitally reborn in an interactive music game from

the cavern clubs to suits and shoes and shrieking fans t means anyone -- >> one, two, three, four. ♪ >> reporter: and i mean anyone can, armed with a plastic guitar and the ability to follow colored dots attempt to be a beatle. yeah! george martin was the legendary beatles producer. his son, giles, in the same abby road studio helped to craft the music for the new game, a logical next step for a band always on the cutting edge. >> he loves the fact that you can get closer and further to what they did. >> we love the game, it's fantastic. who'd ever thought we'd end up as androids. >> reporter: and whoever thought beatlemania would strike again. these 20-somethings in l.a. got a chance to try a demo of the new game before its release. >> when i heard about the beatles thing coming out, i was just like no way!

my favorite band in the world! >> are you kidding right now? i love the beatles. i'm going to play this forever. >> i preordered. i will buy it the day it comes out. >> reporter: the game is a craft sellout but with ipods and videos, many think beatles are got back to where they belong. >> put them back in contemporary popular culture. >> reporter: if the game is not your thing there's the music, the entire catalogue has been remastered on to cds to make it cleaner and crisper and there's rare footage and photos, even studio banter between the boys. >> take seven. >> this bloody little mike oucht the way. >> don't be nervous john. >> i'm not. >> reporter: priceless moments from a band many think just keeps getting better all the time. ♪ you say good-bye >> reporter: don in a friesen, nbc news, london. >> i wasn't here?

>> john knowifogarty was here yesterday. one of my three or four. john fogarty said, told me there is so much money in these like rock band deals and guitar heroes. you have a whole new generation hearing your music. >> that's great. robert gibbs also responding to our last conversation, he'll be on the show. >> he said he didn't do t talking about a staffer. welcome to the now network. right now five coworkers

are working from the road using a mifi-- a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.

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live pictures on the white house, i'm not quite yet up this morning. >> beautiful shot. >> suspect tea? very nice. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at today's top stories. president obama is said to deliver a major address to congress this evening as he pushes for a bill to overhaul the nation's health care system. this morning's "new york times" reporting despite tensions within the democratic party over a public option, there is broad agreement on proposals to require every american to have insurance. >> they're talking about a fine for americans who don't carry health care insurance. from exactly like $3,000 or something. we have robert gibbs coming up on the show, we'll talk to him about that >> that will win a couple of seats. there is a combined $150,000 reward being offered for information leading to the conviction of the arsonist who set the deadly wildfire burning near los angeles. two firefighters were killed

last month when their truck careened off a mountain side. the fire is now 60% contained. president obama is suggesting it might be time for congress to consider -- i'm all for this, sorry -- taxing soda and other sugary drinks, which he says are linked to childhood obesity. it comes seven months after a similar plan was dropped in new york amid widespread criticism. it's on the front page of one of the papers or in one of the papers. sorry, people. but we really -- >> tax everything, go ahead! and just tax everything with democratic votes! go ahead! tax, tax acti, tax, fine americ family, expand the size of federal government and jam it down the republicans' vote. i debris with bill clinton, do that! taxes! >> then we wouldn't have an obesity crisis. >> fine!

this is wonderful for republicans. let's look at some of the newspapers, "the washington post," u.n. backed panel finds fraud in voting in afghanistan. >> owe ba haes speech aims to rally congress. >> the new york times shows students in arlington listening to a back-to-school message from president obama yesterday, look closely, you will see some little books written by chairman mao. >> indoctrinated children. >> wall street investors switch to riskier foreign assets and gamble on global economic recovery. >> the recount of afghan votes is ordered and front page photo, a fire truck nearly swallowed by a sink hole. nobody was injured. what's next? coming up next "newsweek's" john meacham will look at this morning's must read opinion

pages plus a birth caught on tape. do we want to see that? >> yes, we do, with jon meacham with me. i don't believe he was born in hawaii. >> oh, no, you're watching "morning joe. "brewed by starbucks. listerine total care. everything you need... to strengthen teeth, help prevent cavities, and kill germs. introducing 6 in 1 listerine total care. the most complete mouthwash. and then there are the indicator-light warning, radar-sensor-linking, blind-spot-penetrating side mirrors of the all-new ford taurus. so what doesn't show up in your mirror, can still show up on your mirror. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford.

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with us now the editor of "newsweek" magazine, jon meach meacham, pulitzer prize winning author of "american line." john an editorial in the "new york times" by the editorial staff of keen interests to you personally and professionally. >> it is indeed "the times" has generously and wisely editorialized about the "newsweek" correspondent who has been unlawfully detained since sunday morning at 7:00 a.m. on the 21st of june, when

government agents came to the house he shares with his 83-year-old mother, seized him and his computer. he has gone into prison there in tehran, has not been allowed to see a lawyer, not been formally charged, was part of those show trials that happened in the first couple of, in the month or so after the disputed elections, and ahmadinejad is coming here to speak to the u.n., and "the times" very wisely points out that if a president of a country has the freedom to speak his mind without fear of retribution, then why can't people do that at home? >> "the times" also points out, micah, that what's going on in those prisons, what's going on, raping, people being raped. >> horrific. >> beaten senseless, beaten to death, forced confessions, it's straight out of stalin's

playbook. >> and it's larger than a press story. he's one of our own so we're going to fight like hell, of course, but for people who think oh, another lost reporter or something like that, think about this. this is a regime that is going to ask the wider world to trust it about uranium, that's going to trust it about having the weapons of apocalypse. if you can't have -- by the way, it was an election, open elections how can you trust them on the big stuff? >> they can't be trusted, they simply cannot and they've shown their true face over the past six months. >> three more things we want to get to in this block and chris, i want to start with the sound bite out of ohio and then do the bill clinton to "esquire" and maureen dowd. this is a congresswoman, i think she is agreeing.

i'm not sure. >> ma'am, ma'am -- >> you can't be a president -- >> i don't think so. >> ma'am, ma'am, i need you to support this. >> she's saying she agrees, she whispers i agree with you but the courts don't, this is to a person who is questioning -- >> republican in ohio. >> republican in ohio. and by the way -- >> just not something you want to put on a bumper sticker. >> sarah palin did a piece as we well. >> it's in ohio, it ain't northwest florida, baby, she's going to be tapdancing. >> bill clinton did an interview with "esquire" and there's some interesting comments pertaining to health care and the republicans, worth noting. and let me just read this one, he says the thing that i think is wrong and dumb about the way, about this is that they're in

la-la land about this. "where was obama born" and all of that kind of stuff sounds like an old record with a bad scratch in it. don't even worry about the republicans. let them figure out what they're going to stand for. cause as long as they're sitting around waiting for to us mess up, they don't have a chance. >> as i was saying beforehand with all due respect to the 42nd president, democrats tried this in '93 and '94, and i know, speaking of a bad record with a scratch in it, i mean, every time i bring this up, democrats say don't bring up '93. it's hard not to, when they go back and go by these same exact playbook. and i've been saying here that well if the economy turns around, everything's going to -- no. if this president tries to pass a public option, if he listens to the editorial page of the "new york times" and tries to jam it down congress's throats in reconciliation, this will be '93 and '94 all over again.

it's unbelievable, because then people forget the economy, when people like he got elected the economy in ' 4 was doing well. it improved a lot since 1992. we won in spite of a good economy because jon meacham, bill clinton was seen as lurching too far left. they took the poor congresswoman down the center aisle to get her to cast the vote, 1993, i turned to my wife and i said i'm going to washington and a lot of republicans out there are saying the same thing, cram it down their throats. >> well, the republican bet to some extent is classic overreach. will the democrats do that? i think the complicating factor here is obama's, the president's essential attitude, which i don't think is extremist,

despite our friend from the house of representatives in ohio. i think, this is just a personal view, but you know, in our election project, the reconstruction, we found the audiotape of obama analyzing himself and the first thing he said was that, i'm a writer. i'm a good writer. i can watch things. i think he wants the story to end well, and so i don't think he's an ideologue and i think he's aware of all the history you just mentioned. >> look at the last nine months, the stimulus package. i've got to say a stimulus package that under no circumstance would i ever vote for, and yeah, i'm a conservative guy but i'm not a total -- i don't know any republican, in fact, even moderate republicans that could have supported that stimulus package, or the cap and trade bill, written by henry waxman, or the budget, barack obama's

budget, which is, makes george bush look like a flinty new england cheapskate, and now this public option again, how do you not call him an ideologue when every piece of legislation is only legislation that nancy pelosi and her folks in congress can like. there's a reason this president came in with a 70% approval rating and this morning 51% approval rating, he's lost independents, he's lost moderate republicans, he lost the middle. >> i don't know personally how permanent that is and my sense is that he is, he understands this is fundamentally a center right country, we talked about this a lot and when i read a book, i'm trying to remember the title, the last says hope. and i had a conversation with the author who agreed, i think, with the premise that the real

burkian in american politics right now is barack obama because when he came in, he dealt with reality as he found it, and may have gone too far at this point but it's september the 9th. >> brother, you didn't read my book. because i specifically, if you would have just gotten through the introduction you would have known i said barack obama is overreached, like george w. bush is overreached, and americans are hungry for a burkian conservative but we'll talk about this later. as rehnquist said you have wretched the words from proper context. president obama is so wrapped up in his desire to be a different more beer summit kind of leader he ignores some ver y verities. when you're trying to get an agenda passed it's good, if people in the way, including

rebellious elements in our own party fear you. >> yes, mike, that's what inspired me in iowa, keep your foot on your opponent's neck. what do you think? >> well? >> well, i think we're going to find out tonight. >> but you like that idea, right? >> i do. i do. >> kick the republicans. >> joe, i just mentioned it briefly earlier, i'll mention it briefly now for some reason or other, the whole flap over the school speech really threw me. it was like the nuts and bolts of this country, sprang! coming apart, bothered me, depressed me. >> i'm with you on that. >> well, were you with me over the past eight years when people said that george w. bush and his family were close buddies with osama bin laden's family and all these bizarre conspiracy theories that we all knew were just flat out lies. >> absolutely right. >> they said george bush was a fascist and nazi and shredding

the constitution and he hated america, did that bother you then? >> absolutely. >> part of it bothered me. >> parts of it. it was okay to call him a stalinist but not a nazi? >> we've got to go. we won't go there. >> i think there's mutual outrage here. coming up white house press secretary robert gibbs and tom brokaw. >> did you hear what gibbs said? but first sports and willie's news you can't u. >> sorry, robert, it's just a tease. >> we'll be right back. goodwrench... we roll out the blue carpet for drivers of these great gm brands. we can do the small things, the big things, just about everything... right inside your gm dealership. find out more at goodwrench.com.

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time for some sports. fred roggin is finally understanding how we pull off the new york media bias. he's leading with the new york yankees meaningless games. here's fred roggin. >> good morning, nearly a packed house was on hand to see derek jeter pass the yanks on the all-time hits list. jeter was hitless remains four hits behind. nick swisher had a couple of hits, first a solo shot to left. to the eighth it's tied, johnny damon tried to bunt his way on. scooped it to first and got damon by the slimmest of margins. an inning later swisher again ending it with a walkoff homer into the jet stream and right. yanks won it 3-2, the raise dropped seven straight. let's go to baltimore, red sox and orioles, david ortiz hit

his 269th homer as designated hitter and that tied him with frank thomas for the most all-time. red sox routed the o's 10-0. phillies and nationals. back-to-back home runs for the filles. they beat the nationals 5-3. cards and brewers, trevor hoffman blown only two saves all year, make that three after matt holliday blasted a two-run homer in the ninth. cards beat the brewers in milwaukee. college football, oklahoma dropped from third to 13th. byu jumps up to ninth. florida remains the number one team in the nation. serena williams has been cruising through the u.s. open. yesterday she won in straight sets and will take on clkim clijsters in the semis.

>> murray was nursing a sore left wrist and it showed. celic 35 winners and it showed. he is arguably the greatest basketball player of all-time. this friday michael jordan will be inducted into the basketball hall of fame. he's chosen david thompson to give his induction speech. who is david thompson? the former all-american at north carolina state who led the wolfpack to the national title in 1974, and finally check this out, minor league game between the arkansas travelers and the springfield cardinals, travis coalby, shot deep to right center, two runners on base, both tried to score, one following the other but thanks to a perfect throw to the catcher, steven hill he tagged them both out, one of the craziest double plays you'll see. so nice we'll show it to you twice, double your pleasure, double your fun, getting two the hard way, that's it for me. we'll talk to you tomorrow.

>> thanks a lot, fred. i was giving you a hard time. every yankee game is a great i n yankee game. plus coming up the news you can't use. an indescent proposal from a man who took off his clothes. upbeak ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪

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oh, is it time, willie? >> time for the news you cannot use.

>> bill caron's in it? >> no, thank god, giving him a couple of week's off after this morning's performance. george clooney was in venice having a press conference for his new film and taking questions from i guess they were supposed to be journalists. one journalists could not contain himself, shouted out and began removing his clothes. >> oh, oh, no. >> and i don't know how to say it. >> i know what the question is. >> i am gay, george, and -- >> here it comes. >> i think i'm in love with you. george, please, take me. choose me, george, please. please, choose know, george, may i kiss you, please, just one kiss? please, george, one kiss. >> it's hard when you take a big chance and it doesn't really work. it's always embarrassing you take one real swing for the fepss and it just falls flat, good try, though. you know, the tie looks good.

and it's just long enough. >> this might be a poor us situation. >> oh. >> true story is, let's just say "newsweek" south of france correspondent on suspension for a couple of weeks. >> it's been rough. >> trying to be provocative. you got to break through. >> you know what i love, it's clear this happened to clooney over and over again. here it comes. here it comes. another reporter getting naked at a press conference. >> i hate that. >> i know. >> on action is it avenue usually. apparently this is going around, though, last night. >> really? >> at the u.s. open -- >> oh. >> rafael nadal, after the match, some guy runs out and plants a big smooch on him. this is the u.s. open, nadal says for me it was no problem. the guy was nice, he said i love you, and he kissed me. the guy was arrested and charged

with interference of a sporting event. leave the guy alone. >> when i heard micah was at the u.s. open and page six wrote about t i didn't realize she put him up to it. >> nadal happens to take his shirt off and the crowd goes crazy, so not falling for it, i have to tell you. it's so ridiculous. he drinks a lot of his own kool-ade. >> he's a wonderful guy. >> he likes to take his shirt off for the press. i'm not buying it. >> i saw him around the reservoir. >> shirts? >> he wasn't shirtless but i will say hunky. there i said it. >> that leads right into this e-mail, you got, willie, which explains a hell of a lot. >> from the delaware, willie is looking especially nice this morning. tell him he has a huge gay following that now wakes up at 5:30 just to see him even earlier in the morning. >> that's nice. >> very good, love it.

cannon, delaware. dave waxler off the list. from a previous show he pushed in. we'll play it later, jon and kate gosselin interview. >> hard hitting journalist needs to be aired on a hard-hitting morning show. i don't get it. this is all such stupidity, call it for what it is. >> don't get all high and mighty. >> i'm just saying you can do better, think of a better story. >> do you hold everyone to that standard including our own network here? >> high horse party of one, your pony's ready. ooh. >> i don't mind if you do it but don't take yourself so damned serious and call it a hard-hitting interview and the viewers are not that stupid. >> whoa! >> okay? >> glad we didn't say that it was chris cuomo who conducted the interview. >> i'm sorry, i'm just not --

>> good thing your contract's not up, honey, because the mma wouldn't be calling you today. >> i found it enlightening. >> it was enlightening. >> i want to know about jon and kate's ridiculous problems that really, really we don't need to hear about. >> chris cuomo asks the tough questions journalists don't ask. >> i would never name chris cuomo, i don't know what you're talking about. >> didn't you say at the break it was chris cuomo? >> how do you figure they'll get out of this in. >> talking about -- >> too bad we didn't get to this story. >> which one, the glue? >> why not? >> chris said, i don't know. >> at the top of the hour we'll be talking about that, a lot to talk about today. president obama reportedly is going to be pushing a public option, when we dresses america later on tonight, in a rare televised address to a joint session of congress. going to be very interesting, a lot of things going on, max

baucus rushing to get his bill completed, 10:00 a.m. deadline for the gang of six, we'll see how that goes, firing back and forth from the white house to either max baucus or a staffer who works for max baucus. robert gibbs took exception last hour to us suggestions he was firing a shot across the bow of max wau cuss saying he wasn't surprised the baucus bull wound up on k street. >> we'll have him on the show and go for it. >> you got jon meacham covering "newsweek" next week is going to be edited by guest editor chris cuomo on the jon and kate controversy. >> i never heard of chris cuomo. >> please level me out of this. i have enough problems of my own creation. >> maybe reporters are pawns in a vicious game to get ratings. >> oh, come on! you're making me sick! >> because i say what's really

going on and you don't like it because it takes the veil off? that's all your problem. >> he love the veil, keep the veil on if at all possible. >> time now for -- >> jon meacham, you see a lot of guys taking their shirts off, being kissed, does that happen a lot in chattanooga in public streets? >> it did, it was a big thing on missionary ridge near braxton headquarters, there was a lot of that, and suwanee. >> up in the woods. >> time to do -- >> it would be terrible. a look at today's top stories as we've been telling you about a rare prime time address to congress this evening, president obama will lay out in that address his prescription to overall the nation's health care system. according to this morning's "wall street journal" the president will press for a government-run insurance option an issue that divided members of his own party. >> as the president has said and i listened to him very

carefully, he believes that the public option is the best way to keep the insurance companies honest, and to increase competition, but, he said, if you have a better idea, put it on the table. and so if somebody has a better idea of how to do that, put it on the table. for the moment, however, as far as our house members are concerned, the overwhelming majority of them support a public option. >> we're going to get a preview of the president's push from white house press secretary robert gibbs coming up in just a few minutes and msnbc will have live coverage of the president's address tonight at 8:00 eastern time. ed to today's address follows another closely watched presidential speech, this one on tuesday, to the nation's schoolchildren, although some critics saw it as an attempt to influence future voters, the speech steered away from politics and towards personal responsibility. >> we need every single one of you to develop your talents and your skills and your intellect

so you can help us old folks solve our most difficult problems. if you don't do that, if you quit on school, air not just quitting on yourself, you're quitting on your country, and even when you're struggling, even when you're discouraged and you feel like other people have given up on you, don't ever give up on yourself. because when you give up on yourself, you give up on your country. a u.n.-backed commission is ordering a partial recount of ballots in afghanistan after finding "convincing evidence" of fraud in last month's presidential elections. returns gave president hamid karzai 54% of the vote, potentially enough to avoid a runoff, that is if all of the votes are true. the federal reserve. >> the federal reserve is reporting record declines in borrowing. what? it's a typo. >> it sounds like, you said speaking of the beatles, i was

like, do the albums back, paul is a dead man -- >> the reporting of record dlin declines in borrowing as americans rein in their debt. credit was slash more than $21 billion from june the most since 1943. analysts are surprised the cash for clunkers program failed to ease cutbacks in other areas of lending. an independent panel appointed by the president says without a big boost in funding, nasa won't be back on the moon for decades. >> oh, no. >> it said the committee favors a steppingstone approach aimed at reaching mars without setting any goal for completion. sounds like my education. and beatles are expected to dominate the charts when a new set of the collected works is released today. beyond the remastered music, fans can also pick up a new video game called the beatles rock band.

some analysts of the game sold 2 million units in the first month alone. i don't really know what i think about a video game. >> kids love that. >> they do? i just want to hear the music. >> absolutely love it. >> just want to hear the music. >> kids are obsessed by it. >> you play along? >> that's guitar hero. rock band you get the whole -- andrew kim telling me last night at 11:56 p.m., because i don't have to wake up very early. they actually give you a replica in the thing the mccartney bass and ringo's drums, the ludwig drum kit and you play along and sing and pretty interesting. >> i don't have the video games but they seem cool. >> guitar hero video game? >> i've seen it. >> over labor day weekend two of our boys, one 23, the other 24, went out and imbibed alcoholic

beverages, came back to the house with a cupful their friends, overimbibed alcoholic beverages, got the electric guitar game going and everything like that and they were performing for us, honest to goodness all i could think of was i spent all that tuition money for this? for this? >> fun stuff. it's fun stuff. >> okay. so the president's speaking tonight. >> what does he need to do tonight when we dresses a joint session before congress? final push on health care, what can dough? >> that's the question. is his goal to pass any bill? let's start with that, or is it to do what's right for health care or what's best politically? is the goal tonight, mike barnicle, to pass any bill that has health care reform on it? >> i think yes, it has to be. i think it has to be to get to yes, a majority, get to yes, pass some form of health care reform. the more he's spoken about this, the more it has all sorts of

thoughts going through my mind. one is that he has yet to explain, truly articulate why this bill is necessary, what the public option is, and most importantly, can you think of another thing that we purchase in this country from automobiles to bread to newspapers to whatever, where you don't know what the cost is. >> right. >> medicine, you go into a hospital for a strep throat in the emergency room, open heart surgery you don't know what the cost is, no one does except the insurance companies. >> that makes a lot of sense he needs to translate this for the public but who else does he need to talk to tonight? the american public or is this for some sort of political development? >> well he wants to help himself with the middle of the country, because if he does he helps himself, for those democratic senators in moderate states went for george bush twice and went for john mccain and there are quite a few of them including

max baucus, including the two arkansas senators, including mary landrieu, including claire macaskill. there are a lot of people that want a little bit of cover and at the same time it sounds like the president is going to dart left and if he does he's going to leave the middle of america behind and here's the big problem. is that this health care bill doesn't really address the issues that mike's talking about. it doesn't address long-term cost. it doesn't address the fact that health care inflation rises at such a rapid rate that medicare and medicaid go bankrupt 10 years from now, 20, 30, 40 years from now that $59 trillion liability cripples this country, and jon meacham, that's been my biggest problem is that it doesn't really address the cost which of course, some people would say is the problem with the stimulus package that the president was sort of in no man's land. >> that the nixonian use of

some, meaning you? >> no, some was actually paul krugman, far, far away from me but krugman's argument from the beginning if you're going to do, do it. don't give us $900 billion. give us $1.8 trillion. >> right. well, it is interesting that he has found himself facing both an impassioned left and a very well-organized right. i don't think, early on, we see a cover with krugman with the line on it "obama is wrong" and that represented an enormous loss of the country. he's got both sides gunning for him. i think it is curious, and i still haven't heard a very good explanation of why it is this was the one tactical thing that this team seems not to have pulled off, the explanation of his issues. i have a theory which is that it's not a rational subject,

that no matter how you talk about it, because it's not just to go to mike's point, it's not like going to the grocery store. it's you always want everything, and the two great domestic reforms of our time have been things that had universal benefits and were creating from scratch, social security and medicare, and this is a reform of an existing system where the interests are so entrenched and the problems are so entrenched that i think it's highly problematic. >> there's another problem, too. it is highly personal but the fact is you look at the polls, about 75% of americans like their health care. 75, that's three out of four americans, and when you start talking about changing that reality for people with something this personal, of course, they're going to push back and that's something, mike, that the white house, i don't know if the white house and democrats, the white house and democrats have paid enough attention to that side. >> they haven't. americans like their health care

plan now because change is on the horizon, they're fearful of what change might bring. what the president has to do tonight is speak to people who pay between $1200 and $2,000 a month for their employee-supplied health care, we've got to do this to give you a pay raise. you're going to get a pay raise in effect. >> coming up this hour we'll talk about that with white house press secretary robert gibbs and nbc's tom brokaw and later, auto bailout. an update on how the t.a.r.p. money is being spent with the head of the overnight panel, elizabeth warren. also katrina vandenheuvel and let's get a quick check on weather. >> let's not. >> with bill caron, quick. >> you'll let anyone back on the show. let's talk hurricane fred, went to a category 2 last night, well out in the atlantic, not a problem for anyone. a quick check of our airports, boston to new york, we're just fine to start your day. we are going to see the forecast in new york, not the best. next three days in a row, upper 60s, low 70s with a chance of

some light rain so you may have some airport delays in and out of new york city. any other problems out there? mostly miami, kansas city, and san antonio. looks like a pretty nice wednesday. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i watched obama's speech. i can see what those parents were worried about. i can. take a look. >> but i'm here today because i have something important to discuss with you. today i'm calling on each of you to drop out of school and to spend every waking hour in front of the tv or with the x-box, make us all proud. thank you very much, everybody. god bless america. this is my small-business specialist, tara.

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welcome back to "morning joe." look at that, looks foggy in the nation's capital this morning. here with us now executive vice president of the german marshall fund, karen godfreys and my

brother's friend. u.s. leadership we talked about this last week over lunch it was fascinating. during the campaign the president sort of owned europe in at least what he was putting out there, remember that tour de europe, 250,000 showed up. >> big in berlin. >> it was amazing. what are you finding? you have new numbers out today looking at the climate there in terms of how they look at the united states. >> well this is a survey of public opinion done since 2002, so it's interesting to compare the difference of a new u.s. president, and it turned out there is a huge popularity bounce for barack obama in europe. >> really? >> if you take the example of germany, you mentioned the speech during berlin he gave during the campaign. last year's survey, 12% of germans aproved of president george bush's handling of international policies. this year, 92% of germans approve of president obama's

handling of international problems. >> from 12% to 92%, when the fact of the matter is that most of the policies have remain unchanged. >> that's the interesting part of the survey. you see the tremendous personal popularity of barack obama but that does not translate into popularity for his policy initiatives and that's also the challenge for the administration. >> barack obama's very popular, 92%, that is great. i guess that means that we can expect more germans and more frenchmen in afghanistan helping us car rit load there. >> so we don't have to carry it alone. >> we asked that question. 12 countries in the european, western europe, central eastern europe and turkey and not one of those countries did you find the majority of support for either maintaining the current level of troops or increasing troops. in fact, majorities coalesced around redeucing or withdrawing troops from afghanistan in every

country except the united states. >> are there any areas where the obama bounce has helped us out? >> the policies we asked about in the survey which were primarily foreign policy, afghanistan, iran, there was no carryover of that personal popularity to support for u.s. policy positions. >> at least they like us. >> they like us. >> i feel better. that's great, that's a relief. no, i am ear serious. >> about our reputation in the world it seems the numbers point to a trend or a change or no? >> i think there's an opportunity for the administration here and the challenge is, how do you take that tremendous personal popularity he has, and turn it into support for policies. it's interesting, when we asked about troops in afghanistan we formulated the question at one point where barack obama is referenced, and that did make a difference in european responses, but if you take france, where 5% were willing to support an increase of troops, without mentioning his name, it went up to 14% when his name was

mentioned. so that's still a very small number. >> mike barnicle? >> can you get any sense from these numbers and the questions that were asked in places like france, in germany, italy, and their lack of support or lack of approval for our policies in afghanistan and iran, places like that, do they think that the world is just all hunky dory and we're overreacting? do they think the world is not a dangerous place? >> it's interesting, when you think about afghanistan, we didn't only ask about troops. we also asked about support for economic reconstruction. you get majority support for that in europe, and what you see throughout the survey is whenever you ask about the use of military force, you're going to get less enthusiasm from europeans. we have a trend question, we ask every year, under any circumstances, is war necessary to obtain justice? 71% of americans agree with that statement. 71% of europeans disagree with

that statement. >> there you go there. >> something different about the use of military force. >> the lows since 1945, so it's a very convenient position to take. >> thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> thanks a lot. appreciate it. coming up press secretary robert gibbs. we'll be back with more "morning joe." >> i think micah is mad at me. >> oh, please, i don't think. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar, but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after

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[ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer

books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. i was told that k street had a copy of the baucus plan, not surprisingly the special interests have gotten a copy of the plan i understand was given to committee members today. we haven't seen what was i think dispersed today or told was dispersed today. >> k street got it and you guys haven't? >> not surprisingly, yes. >> wow, that's tough. jon meacham, can you believe that? you just put the can right in the middle of max baucus's ship and boom! knock it down. sink that baby. i can't believe gibby did it. >> okay, stop. >> i suspect he'll weigh in on this. >> maybe he will right now. president obama is gearing up -- >> he's an auburn man. >> that's correct. >> -- to try to take back

control of the health care debate. here with us white house press secretary robert gibbs. >> oh, this is embarrassing. >> i have to talk to you guys, because i got to come on and correct the record. >> oh, lord. >> once again. go ahead, do it. you look very good this morning, by the way. where did you get the tie? >> what do you mean i picked this tie out myself. you like it? >> i like it. >> ethan picked it out. >> for an auburn man that's pretty impressive. >> needs a little orange with the blue but one of my favorite ties. >> they do have ties in lee county. don't even go there. >> robert gibbs the stage is yours. set the record straight. >> what i was trying to say clearly somebody had taken the proposal that senator baucus and others had been given or that senator baucus gave to others and given it to k street. i wasn't saying that senator baucus had given it to k street. clearly it was somebody who doesn't support health care reform, letting the special interests that have killed health care reform time and time

again given them the plan to start shooting down. i was not attacking senator baucus. the president talked to senator baucus yesterday. i'm sure they'll talk again about moving a bipartisan plan forward. >> the complaint, robert, that the baucus bill is being written by k street. people on the left have been critical of max baucus for some time. you read "the huffington post" every day there's a negative story about baucus. isn't there the belief inside the white house that the baucus bill is a bill that's being written by special interests? >> no, i don't think that's the case. i think what is the case is that in the baucus is trying to work as hard as he can with republican colleagues on the senate finance committee. we worked with olympia snowe, with kruk grassley, wichuck gra enzi. we're hoping they'll work through the process.

>> chuck grassley is working with you, good town hall meetings out there were. >> you know, what we're trying to do, joe, bring republicans and democrats together. some people don't want to come together and solve this problem. others in that committee we think do, and we think they're serious about health care reform. >> so what is the goal tonight? because everyone seems to have a different idea as to what the president should do. what is his strategy tonight, to sharpen the message and to make it clear and to make it happen? >> i think what he'll do is clearly lay out his ideas for health care reform, how we move this process forward, how we pay for this plan, what's in it for people that have health insurance, namely security and stability, and how do we provide affordable, accessible insurance for those that are struggling with the high cost of insurance and don't have that, they go to get their medical care from the emergency room and that costs us billions of dollars every year. people that have health insurance like you and me are paying that bill. >> mike barnicle? >> robert, i am begging you,

after you finish this interview, to turn around and please, go in and convince your boss, the president of the united states, to explain to us what public option means, how many people end up on the public option. >> i can take a whack at this? >> yes. >> he's probably working out or doing something healthy so i don't want to bother that. let me take a try at it, mike. if you get your insurance like 180 million people do through your private employer, you're not going to be impacted by the public option. if you get your insurance through the v.a., medicare or medicaid you're not going to be impacted by the public option. for those people that go on the private insurance market, either as an individual or as the small group, meaning a small business, you're going to have what the president wants to outline is an additional option that allows for choice and competition. here's the story i've been telling recently, mike, true story friend of mine, he opened

a small business in january in alabama. the first thing he had to do was go into the insurance market and make sure that his family had health insurance. his family's lucky and they're healthy. the problem in alabama, joe, is that one insurance company controls 89% of that individual and small group market. so what the president is saying is, for those that are looking for insurance through those mechanisms, right, how do we give those people an additional choice? how do we provide some competition for the sole dominant health insurance company in that region? how do we provide a check on the insurance companies? he was lucky, like i said, he got covered by blue cross and blue shield, but he's talked to dozens of other small business owners that weren't so lucky, that were denied coverage and my friend knows this, that if his family gets sick or if he saw loses his health care coverage,

he could very well lose his business, too. we have to provide some choice in competition, but the vast majority of people in this country will not be impacted whatsoever about anything involving a public option. >> jon meacham in. >> robert, you all for a year and a half have been terrific saying we're moving beyond categories of left and right but you're getting clobbered right now the argument that you have as joe put it awhile ago darted left. what is the president do to try to capture some of that debate back? >> well, if you talk to some of our critics on the left, i'm not sure they would agree we've darted left. i should hook you up with people on the house side. >> thank you but no thanks. i appreciate that. >> you dealing with nancy, we'll stay here. >> jon i appreciate the premise of your question. i could hook you up with people that might somehow disagree. this president has made decisions that he thinks are in

the best interests of the entire american people. we've had to do some things to stabilize our financial system, to rescue our auto companies, not stuff that he wanted to do, but stuff that had to be done. we've gooden some criticism for that, but i think we see this economy having bottomed out and heading toward recovery. the president is determined to focus on health care reform, something that's been going on for decades. >> robert, finally -- >> secretary -- >> secretary gibbs, you can't be feeling good about alabama, they're looking pretty good this year, aren't they, brother? >> i was e-mailing with some friends and begrudgingly admit they look good. one quick thing, mom, if you're watching, you see that it's raining, don't think you raised a son that couldn't come in from out of the rain. there's an umbrella over my head you can't see. >> someone is holding for him. >> chuck todd is. exactly. >> a metaphor.

>> good luck, i hope everything goes well tonight and i hope the president can bring republicans and democrats alike together. >> thank you, robert. >> we'll be right back with tom brokaw. there was a time i wouldn't step out of the house

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with us now, nbc's tom brokaw author of "boom" the '60s, what happened, how it happened, who shaped it, lessons for tomorrow. a hell of a lot of great things. that subtitle, more rambling than it was the first time. somebody got into mika's ambien before they started the teleprompter. >> sorry about that. i'll keep it away. >> good to be here.

>> new cayman, connecticut, did not allow students to -- >> no, some of the high school students the older students got access to it in social studies classes and were able to do it. new canaa the superintendent and i had a long talk after "meet the press" sunday and there are seven point rules whether or not they could see it and under what conditions. i think the superintendent now agrees he could have chosen his language more carefully. other towns in connecticut, darien didn't show it at all. they made a decision not to do it at all and what it came down to at the end of our conversation was that this may be an opportunity for dialogue in the community about how we listen to each other and have more civil exchanges, because also new canaa was accused of being racist, that wasn't the case. they were trying to please everyone. reading all of the accounts i think the best system seems to be the simplest one, if you don't want your child to hear the speech, we'll have a room

for them to go to or they can stay home. we'll play the speech and people can respond on their own terms. the idea that it's not appropriate in some fashion, one of the things that i've been saying is that every high school student now brings in a pda, a cell phone or a blackberry or something or a laptop to school. who's hovering over that to make sure that what they're seeing is appropriate and in context? if you read most of these accounts this morning, and 9 and 10-year-olds are saying that was cool the president told us we should study harder. i'm going to work harder at what i'm doing and it could have been george bush the 43 d or ronald reagan or bill clinton. it's the president of the united states saying study hard and help each other out. >> mika, we've been talking about the extremes on both sides and here you have the extremes on the right going after the president, i want my kids to listen to. chris just told me in my ear when bush 41 delivered a speech,

"the washington post" wrote a front page article criticizing him. democrats actually launched an investigation against george sr.'s speech and ordered the gao to investigate. so this insanity we talk about every day, mike, insanity on the left and insanity on the right. i just don't get it. who puts politics over their kids' education and who the hell doesn't want a president in either party talking about hard work, personal responsibility, keeping their head down and this president's case, talking about getting past difficulties. >> aren't there a couple of points here, you're right, i mean the left does what the left does, the right does what the right does, that stuff did occur with george h.w. bush in 1991 and yet today, it's a little different, in that there are seemingly so many open cans of

gasoline around, flammable rhetoric that consumes all of us. that's one point. the other point is have we arrived as a culture at a point where we are so lacking in confidence in our skills as parents that we're afraid to have our children listen to a president of the united states in school? let's take the extreme. well, it's propaganda. they come home and they would talk to you about what they saw or heard today in class. are we so afraid of our parenting schools, our limitations as parents? >> it's a good chance for a dialogue. >> it is and i also think that this is a great chance for a dialogue within communities, that they begin to talk to each other. what happened in a lot of these school districts, joe, is that they set up these rules or made decisions very quickly when they heard the president was going to speak probably in response to two or three parents calling in saying he's a socialist, i don't want my kids to hear it, and it was before they knew what he was going to say. newt gingrich on the "today"

show yesterday morning said i read the speech and i think every kid in america should hear it. it's a strong speech and they settled on a lot of the critics did, they want a policeon plan, trying to get them to write to the president. i didn't see much wrong with that either. i don't see that in a partisan way. you know, if george bush h.w. bush 41 said i want to you write to me what you can do in your school about drug abuse, that would have been an appropriate response, frankly. let's get everybody involved. >> in writing. >> get them writing, yes. beyond eight characters by the way. >> feeling that he's up to something with this and i just wonder what you think, i was following some towns and districts in pennsylvania, that were making the same decision not to run it. new canaa ultimately. what do you think when a town like new canaan, connecticut, highly educated, skilled people has a problem like that, that actually makes a choice not to show the president saying this

speech? >> well, they did show it. darien, connecticut, did not show it at all. town right next door. across the country the bottom line is that most students had access to it in some form or another, and i would hope that this is a learning experience for all those towns as a result of a couple that blew up around it that they'll start to talk to each other about it and the boards of education on main street and in other places and say let's get sensible. it reminds me very much of the rules that we now have for everything including recess and playing on the playground and how you can approach the school and who can be around. you know there's a need to protect to some degree but the pendulum has swung clear across the board. >> i'm surprised. >> even with religion and faith, we've so stripped that discussion out, i had somebody one time, i want our kids in public school to talk about faith. do you want them to teach your

kids about islam? i said yes. of course i do. i want them to teach about islam and judaism and christianity and the great religions of the world, instead of having these kids grow up in this void. and i'm not talking about preaching. i'm talking about educating and it's the same thing with politics. >> exactly. we've got more with tom brokaw when we come back including a look at his latest along highway 50. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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mika, air going to love this. live pictures from chopper 4. >> we've got tom brokaw, legend and chopper 4. >> tom worked at wsb. he's got no problem with looking at this. >> you want to start talking about where i've worked, because i'm not arrogant either? >> sounds like you've forgotten where whence you came, mika brzezinski. mika has pictures of her childhood. >> yeah, all right. anyhow, tom, you found some great stories as part of your american character along highway 50 series. bring us up to date on some of them because they are fabulous stories. >> i just got back from kansas, from emporia. the one took place in st. louis, we did two stories in st. louis, highway 50 goes through there.

this one in the city of st. louis about a remarkable young man and what he's doing to try to promote the idea of public service. i don't want to give away too much. we want to you watch it with us now. if it's true, much is expected from those to whom much is expected to those whom much is given. eric is living up to his end of the bargain. he has seen some of the worse the world has had to offer. his work took him across the world, and he survived deployments to afghanistan and iraq. and then his unit was hit by a suicide truck bomb in falluja in iraq. >> one of the things that you learn in the military, you take care of your guys. >> despite their wounds, they

wanted to continue to serve. so he founded the mission continues, an organization offering community service develop sh fellowships. >> jami, right now, you are just going to move your legs passively. >> one of the things that this strikes me, as far as what jamie has gone through and others have gone through, and when this war is over, his war will not be over. >> that's right. >> i am not sure the rest of the country has caught up to that yet. >> yeah, jamie is the perfect example. we have many wounded coming back in their 20s. we need to make sure that we are there for them 60 and 70 years

from now. their war has not ended. >> the therapist, whitney and jackie. >> sometimes, do you yell when they push you too hard? >> they yell at us more when we ain't pushing. >> we love what we do. >> i don't know other places -- we have veterans that call us and we know who it is just by their voice and we are able to build the raw tore just from meeting them. >> and their families, the care that we provide, we see family 200 miles or more outside the center. sometimes we are the initial support for them. >> but many vets are searching for a new mission. >> when we offer a challenge,

many of them respond and it's the first time somebody came to them and start to serve again. >> an iraqi repelled rocket caused injuries to him. >> he gives me purpose and something to look forward to in the day. he gives me the reason to have knowledge that i am still serving and giving back to somebody else. >> and the thing about labrad s labradors, especially, you get unconditional love from them? >> yes, sometimes more than i want. >> phillip has another reason for his mission. his dad confined to a wheelchair from his tour in vietnam.

phillip wants nothing more than to see a veteran like his dad to have the gift of a dog that he trained. >> a lot of pride. he is my hero. >> one of the many heroes along highway 50. >> they don't realize this is one of the last great resting places of the people that served. >> they may never know they are driving past the cemetery where over 175,000 veterans and their families are buried. it's indicative of what we need to do as a culture, look beyond the veteran and see that they served the united states.

>> absolutely amazing. >> also, interestingly enough, the dedicated therapist and all the work going on there, that's a public option. veterans administration hospital. i am not going to engage a debate as to whether we are going to expand a public option or not. but half of them are the federal employ yeas and health program and the va and all of the great walter reed hospitals and the burn centers in texas and so on. what we are trying to demonstrate, by all the shouting and going back in forth in washington and new york, out there in america people are getting the job done and taking care of each other in a lot of ways. it's all quiet. they are not raising their hands and say look at me, they are just show up every day.

they create an organization in which they continue to give back to the rest of us. >> the mission continues. >> yeah. >> thank you. beautiful. coming up next, katrina, coming up next on "morning joe." i'm walgreens ceo and i'm also a pharmacist. getting an early flu shot is the best thing you can do... to protect you and your loved ones from the flu. it's also one of the easiest things you can do... because walgreens is now offering seasonal flu shots... every day of the week with convenient hours guaranteed. so you can just stop in.

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welcome back to "morning joe." coming up at the top of the hour, 8:00 here in new york city. we call this the jam cam. light volume on the ipod or whatever that is. los angeles, the 101. and now let's sweep over to las vegas, where it's just beautiful. i don't know what else to say. now to chicago, the home of the united states who was making an important speech tonight. and on over to the east coast, do you like that? >> i think i will trademark that. the white house, a gloomy day there. and then back home from the top of the rock looking south. >> the big speech tonight. what does the president need to do to pass the bill. we are going to talk to katrina. >> thank you for having me on.

>> and thank you, mike barnicle, we are glad to have you on. >> yeah, i introduced pat last night as somebody that knew mother jones. >> i think he dated mother jones. >> oh, boy. here we go. we will take a quick look at today's top stories. we have been talking about a rare primetime address to congress this evening, president obama will layout the prescription to overhaul the nation's health care system. according to the "wall street journal," the president will press for a public option. robert gibbs discussed what we expect to hear in the speech tonight. >> how we move the process forward and how we pay for the plan, and what is it in for people that have health

insurance, and namely security and stability, and how do we provide a affordable, accessible insurance that struggle with the high cost of insurance, and they go to get their care from the emergency room and that costs us billions each year. you and me are paying for that bill. >> we will have coverage at 8:00 p.m. eastern time tonight. and then this speech on tuesday to the nation's schoolchildren. some criticized it was an attempt to sway future voters. >> we need every single one of you to develop your talents and skills and intellect so you can help us solve our most difficult problems. if you don't do that, if you quit on school, you are not just quitting on yourself, you are quitting on your country.

even when you are struggling and discouraged and feel like other people have given up on you, don't ever give up on yourself, because when you give up on yourself, you give up on your country. >> and a u.n. backed commission is ordering a partial recount of ballots in afghanistan, after finding, quote, convincing evidence of fraud in last month's presidential election. and it gives karzai 54% of the votes, enough to avoid a runoff. i don't think so. with us now the editor and publisher of the nation, katrina. she writes this.

>> katrina, you obviously run a publication that is one of the voice of the american left. will liberals and progressives in america believe the president betrayed them if tonight he does not champion a public option? >> i believe tonight president obama will speak -- will he champion? i don't know. but he will speak of the importance of the public option. what is important about obama at this defining moment is whether he is a reform leader. every reform leader in this country -- let's talk about health care and those that say why the urgency? we are going back 55 years, truman, this has been on the agenda of the democratic party. he has a chance to show he is in

that spirit, and invoke the history that passed the great reforms. the great programs of our time, social security and health care. he ran a campaign for change. i think he can do that tonight. he will speak of other options, of something called the trigger option, and he will speak of the co-op. i think both of those are traps to kill health care reform. >> quickly for people that are listening, because we hear about the public option, and the co-op, you know, you cannot define a co-op, because nobody knows -- i am not talking about you. i am saying the top health care experts interviewed by "the new york times" have no idea what a co-op is. >> they do exist around the country. the problem with a co-op is -- >> they don't work, do they, in

health care? >> they are too small to make the difference you need. reign in costs and coverage. and that's key to the health care plan. and they are not a scale. they are just too small to make that difference. co-ops, co-op banks, and i am not opposed, but in this case it doesn't work. and also bipartisanship. this is a moment for the president that talked about transcending bipartisanship. i don't think you can do it in this atmosphere. and it was thomas friedman that wrote a column, the one-party system of china, saying we have a one-party system. this is essentially -- i know it's clich'e, but he says it's the party of no. this is not the party with which

franklin roosevelt negotiated social security. he had populists like george norris. this is not the party. and so i think you essentially have a party which is the party of goldwater, the party that fought medicare. >> well, for the president, for democrats, i think -- i agree, and anybody that reads what i write they will say the republicans advocates many things -- what i am saying i worry about the american people because you look at the numbers. i have also said here, too, every presidency has its season. these numbers could go back up. but right now the perception is the president moved too far left

with the american people, and you look at the polls, independents are now -- he is upside down with independents. a lot of the moderate republicans offended with sarah palin on the ticket are more offended with barack obama's policies in the first part. >> i think that he needs to navigate the shovels within the democratic party. i think what obama has done is shown that he is lacking the boldness and vision that made him president. it's not that he hitched himself to the congress and the left. i think that he needs to speak with a spine. he needs to speak with passion and layout his priorities of pragmatism and principles. the public option, often called

the lit mus test for the left. you saw things in the fury of the town hall meetings. and they were manufactured and stroked, and it was a mix. but i do think that people feel that the taxpayer-funded gift to wall street was a mistake. you look at the joblessness. there is great anxiety about that. you were talking earlier about afghanistan, and on those two fronts, interesting there is a sense of war fatigue and anxiety. i think the bank bailout was the great error of the administration. >> i think the bailout -- george w. bush started, and barack obama has continued, i think that has casts a shadow over everything he has done, mika.

and one of the problems tonight, a lot of progressives on the thought think the president has not gone far enough, and a lot of people like me think he has gone too far. this is where the president needs to thread the needle tonight. >> well, bailout, afghanistan, and unlike the campaign, where change was the exciting thing, just the concept, and we are talking about specifics that may affect you. you have a population where 80% of the people are happy with what they have got. >> mika, i beg to differ with you -- >> how do you translate a message -- >> well, you talk about the deficit, and i wish you would talk more about joblessness. >> that's why we have barnicle here. we believe the president should have been more focused on the

job creation. >> i think that's the republicans are hypocritical going after the stimulus, because it was too small. when you say 80% are happy with their health care, in the article that i wrote for the nation -- >> maybe they are satisfied. >> he needs to speak to those that are insured and those under insured. that's a vast category in this country. but the number of medical bankruptcies related to health care cost is staggering. i think he lost momentum in the last weeks or months, and we can agree on that, and he needs to reboot and reclaim, and take on the disinformation. what has gone on with the media environment, which amplified so much of the miss information and lies. i think i said on your program before, everybody has a right to

their own opinion, but not their own facts. when you talk about the scientists, who is actually british, and -- >> let me bring in mike barnicle here. mike, i think the reality the president has moving that rock uphill is, again, katrina talks about the bailout, and a 90% are saying why are we paying for the ones that did not pay their bills. this is building on the bailout culture. that seems to me to be the president's biggest challenge. >> well, it probably is, joe.

and it goes to a couple things. one, no doctor or hospital in the country that can deal with what might be one of the most critical problems. our increasingly short national attention span. you talk about the bank bailouts, and people are bothered by the bailouts, and rightly so. the government profited from the bill. we don't read about that or hear about that. that's one issue. and the second issue is the president of the united nations has never gone to the country yet and answered the question a lot of people had, why? there are legitimate answers to that. he has not addressed that. you have people walking around. they are wondering one thing, what happened to my 401(k). it will be interesting to see which anniversary we pay more

attention to. september 11th, or september 18th? the day of the big economic collapse. it will be interesting to see what day we pay more attention to. the 11th or the day the 401(k)s disappeared. >> yeah, we need to pay attention to both. our country was deformed on how we responded to september 11th. i think -- it was the message of the bush administration. but the obama administration should have put demands on these banks, to lend -- >> to who? i lost my job. >> there are lots of people that seek help with lending. the banks are instead using the money to buy up other countries. >> we have to break. katrina, stay with us if we

will. we are going to the hard break and chris is yelling in our ears. >> we will come back. later, did texas wrongfully execute an innocent man. a shocking case that could lead to sweeping changes. >> i want to talk to katrina about afghanistan. >> a mess for the president. >> and will the taxpayers see the money that we saw on gm and chrysler? will they? we will talk to the head of the t.a.r.p. oversight panel. but first, bill karins with a check on your forecast. the weather headlines this morning. second hurricane of the season formed, hurricane fred. winds 105 miles per hour. and showers in miami, and d.c.,

and no delays at the airports currently. today later in the afternoon, showers and thunderstorms in miami. that's your forecast. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. to silence headaches... doctors recommend tylenol...

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welcome back to"morning joe." here with us now, the chair of the congressional oversight panel and the professor at

harvard law school, miss warren. >> give us the great news. when do we get our money back with interest? >> we probably will not get all of the money back. that's where it starts. but there is good news in this one. the treasury was a good negotiator. this is different than when they dealt with the banks. there were two time periods. you don't want to forget this. under the bush administration, there was money given back in november and december. we are not likely to see some money back. there is a decision to be made when we get to february, and that is is the government just going to walk away and say let it go? let it implode?

or is the government going to put more money in the auto industry. the obama administration made the decision they were going to put more money into the industry, but it's going to be on conditions. they will have to come up with a viable business plan that changes what they do. they will have to wipeout their share holders and come back on what the debt holders get and the concessions from labor and replace top management. in other words, this has to be a reformation in terms of taxpayer dollars. on that investment, we may see our money back. we don't know. >> elizabeth, brother buchanan and i have been attended for sometime that the treasury played it so easily with wall street, but when it came to saving blue collared jobs in middle america, our perception

was that they played hardball, and you are saying that's what happened, they negotiated tougher, and they tried to save blue collar jobs than the guys on wall street. >> you guys had it exactly right. >> yeah, it's not her job to give a job of what she thinks about that, and i am glad it is confirmed. >> why do you think? >> why do you think? >> well, because you win political contests with wall street money more than you win money from auto workers in flint, michigan. >> what about the fact that on both sides of capitol hill, the house and the senate, they are swimming with fannie mae and freddie mac, and establishing and maintaining it. >> now we find out from the "new york times" we are paying some of those official's legal fees.

>> we are cupping up on the september 15th anniversary of lehman brothers collapsing, and i asked you last time and was surprised by your answer, and i asked you last time if hank paulson was right, that if we did not give all of the bailout money and write the $700 billion check would the economy collapse, and were they right? did they have to do that? >> i think the way i see this, we had to do something and make it clear that the american government and the american people were not going to let the entire economy emplode. and was the necessary response

in order to save the economy? did we have to do something? yes. did we have to do what we did? i am far less persuaded. >> what do citizens need to learn in the next step, the top forms of the financial sector, what should we push our congress for? >> well, i am glad to see that question asked. this is really about whether or not we are going to put reforms into place. can you imagine that we are coming up on the one-year anniversary, and we have not made any changes. the basic rules are the same as when we got into the mess. with me, we start with the

consumer. we need to talk about the crazy mortgages and the way they rip people off with overdraft fees, and that has to stop. they need to equally regulate the banks and the non-bank lenders. behind that we have to look hard at the credit rating agencies. the ones that gave the aaa ratings to the mess of consumer loans that were never going to payoff. we have to be big time focused on that one. absolutely critical. and the third is, we have to have something more on systemic risk regulation. i will put that in the terms that i think of it. we have to sacry credibility,

banings, you can fail. >> oh, capitalism -- no, no. i found corporations, when i was on capitol hill, they did not give a damn about capitalism. they wanted advantages. hey, can you help me out with the tax break and give me this subsidy? it was so gross and repulsive. it had nothing to do with free market. your concept is radical these days, elizabeth. >> you turned me into a radical, joe, what can i say? >> what is the one question you want answered on behalf of the american people? >> i still want to know where did the money go? >> oh, my god.

seriously, the fact that we don't know that, though, is troubling in some ways, isn't it? >> elizabeth, we have a question for you. will you run for president in 2012, please. >> it would be helpful. >> i have to go and teach class in two hours. >> how about treasury secretary? >> wonderful. absolutely wonderful. >> elizabeth warren, thank you so much for being on the show again today. come back soon. up next, a check on business before the bell, with mr. sunshine, mark haines. >> we can agree on that, can't we, she would be a great treasury secretary. >> yeah, the nation would be for her and not tim geithner. with in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. anything before takeoff mr. kurtis? prime rib, medium rare. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network.

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live pictures. that's marine one. the president will get off marine one and board air force one, where he will head to new york city. there will be a memorial service at lincoln center remembering walter cronkite. the president, of course, will be there today. he is making his way out of marine one any moment now. of course, this comes the morning of his major speech before a joint session of congress. >> the walter cronkite memorial, it will be a remarkable event for a remarkable man. and bill clinton will also be there.

president obama and bill clinton, and there is the president right now. he has a busy day ahead of him. he starts the day, of course, and he will be going to the cronkite memorial. tonight, a rare televised address before a joint session of congress on what has to be his number one domestic priority, health care reform. >> absolutely. the question will be will he be able to get the support he needs from congress and also from the american people for a health care bill. and the president is boarding air force one on his way to new york city. we will follow that. right now, let's get a check on business before the bell. cnbc's mark haines standing by live at the new york stock exchange. hi, mark. >> good morning. what was the president wearing? >> a dark suit. >> who made the suit? >> i think we are -- >> the company he likes is out of chicago, it's heart max.

>> yeah. >> i noticed that when women politicians or famous women are walking by, it's always what they are wearing. when famous men walk by, and who cares? you know. >> well, he is wearing a suit made in american by a unionized company. >> what are you wearing, mark haines? >> i don't want to know what mark is wearing? i am worried. >> okay. i will let that one go by. let's get to business. the jobs market is not in good shape. but a big jump in mortgage applications this week, and that's obviously a good sign. at the same time, a dramatic decline in outstanding credit card debt. we paid collectively, we paid down the credit card debt, $21

billion. that's so far out of the trend. it's a mind-boggling number. and it's good from our financial health stand-point that we are paying down debt, but it's bad that we need consumers to be spending. we talked about that before this paradox that we are in. and anyway, the data is mixed. there is another interesting trend going on. i don't know whether you noticed, guys, but the chinese are buying up the auto companies. and china -- the chinese bought hummer, and now they are going to bid for ford's volvo unit. it's interesting. the great taste

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live pictures from andrews

air force base. about to take off to new york city where the president will attend the walter cronkite memorial. >> i like this business because you get to know people. like savannah country. i can ask her what the walter cronkite thing is like and what the president is like. >> she must be calling in from air force one. let's go to savannah guthrie -- >> wait. she was left behind! >> yeah. >> that's a shocker. >> don't tell me, chuck todd big footed you. >> this is true. every network gets a day and takes turn going with the president. >> where is chuck going to be today? >> with me. >> who is up there from nbc?

>> nbc has a borough in new york. they don't send all five networks all the time because there would be going with him. cbs is going with him. >> answer my question? >> i did answer your question. cbs is it today. >> can you believe that? >> i volunteer for this, i come on for abuse. >> maybe if you did not call her fat every morning while you were substituting for her, and this is horrible, can you believe that? mike barnicle, i can't make the reference here with the kids. >> i am not surprised at anything savannah would call mika. the resentment factor is so thick -- >> barnicle, i cannot believe -- >> savannah, let's raise the

bar. >> reporter: women of "morning joe" unite! >> what the president needs to do, and what is the strategy the white house has and then kau tr katrina will pick it up from there. >> reporter: well, the president had another draft last night of the speech and is working on it today on the way to the cronkite funeral. and they say they will get detailed. by the time this is all said and done, the american people will know what the obama plan is. he will take sides on some of the varying controversies out there. but when asked, they are not going to take a side and come down hard on the public option. i think the president will advocate for it, and make the

case for it, and more to the point i think he will make the case for having choice and competition. the way they look at it, look, here is what we want to achieve. we don't want insurers to have the run of the market. we think the best way to accomplish that is a public option. maybe oco-ops will get it done? they will not nail themselves to the public option, and of course that's to the display of progressives in the party. and speaker pelosi said yesterday you have to have a public option if you want it to pass the house. >> katrina? >> if the president is for stability, and it's not a left litmas test.

>> leaders on the left made the test, and health care reform without a public option is not health care reform. nancy said it and barney frank said it. >> but the media defined it as that? >> no, if nancy pelosi said we will not pass it without that, then the public would not say it's a litmus test. >> well, i don't want to whack nostalgia about cronkite. we saw this summer a media that amplified the fury and anger and destruction, and not the day-to-day discourse of politics or people. i think we have seen a media hijacked in the last days by --

>> what does that have to do with the public option issue? >> well, i was saying i did not want to evade but i wanted to draw a link between a walter cronkite who will be remembered as a great man of the media, but his criticism of the media is one to remember. he was critical of the ownership of the media by a few major companies, and what that meant is, in terms of the raising the tough questions, the media's inability to stay right and wrong, and to distinguish lies from facts. we are seeing the consequences of that, with the glenn beck for example. >> i am still confused -- we could have this -- >> i did not have enough coffee.

>> by the way, we complain all the time about the extremes on both sides. you are not going to get a big fight from us on a lot of the issues you bring up. but, again, how does this play into what we are talking about as far as the public option? >> well, it feeds into the speech that he will give us tonight, because he will have to spend some time in terms of clarifying his principles, and stating his position, and we were talking about earlier the disinformation that polluted the health care, the death panels and then the speech yesterday. if you have a president that will speak to schoolchildren, and then the media picks up on

it >> well, did they want an investigation of george w. bush's speech to schoolchildren. >> i would have to go back. there was not a media furor about it. >> well, they were not offended by it. >> you have so many outlets now, both healthy, but it led to the ability to traffic disinformation. >> we all have responsibility here to raise the bar higher. >> thank you. >> savannah, we miss you. will you come on the radio again today, so we can assault you. >> reporter: yeah, sure, because we have not gotten to every bad

word there is. >> we'll be back. (woman) dear cat.

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welcome back to "morning joe." could texas be the first state to admit to executing an innocent man? and this man was sentenced to death by lethal injection.

in his article for new yorker, the writer writes based on the evidence, there has never been a motive for the crime. great to have you with us this morning. we have a little context from the story. tell us about the facts of the case and the trial. >> the fire broke out on december 23rd, just before christmas in 1991. cameron willingham was 23 years old and lived there with his daughters. twins, 1-year-old, and a daughter 2 years old. and his wife, stacy. and a fire broke out, and the fire department was eventually

called. they put out the fire. the three children, very tragically, perished. fire investigators came into the house and conducted an inspection, and they found what they believed was 20 indicators of arson. this involved the spider web pattern in the glass, a pattern that they believed were patterns and puddle configurations. they came to the conclusion the fire was intentionally set, and since he was the only one in the house, he was the suspect and he was convicted and sentenced to death. what happened since then, evidence emerged. there has been a revolution in the science of arson. every one of those indicators, these little spider web patterns are simply caused, for example, when a fire hose hits the glass,

and cold water hits the glass that creates the pattern. nothing to do with arson. >> this is timely. the senate judiciary is having a meeting today. this man went to jail on baseless science? >> yeah, repeatedly by the leading arson scientists. on each occasion, they have concluded there is not a single shred of evidence of arson. >> it's a compelling piece of reporting and writing, and it leads you to wonder at the conclusion of it, how often does this happen elsewhere? >> yeah. the thing about this story, and no matter where you come down on the death penalty -- for me this was a huge eye-opening

experience, is there were systemic failures all along. you had allowed into court expert testimony which was based on bunk. you had a clemency board that looked at the report barely that showed the science because bunk and went ahead with the execution. over and over you see the system breaking down in this case. it was not an anomaly based on the other problems. there are plenty of other people convicted of arson based on flawed science. >> any recognition from the state of texas that they made a mistake? >> a commission is reviewing the case. they will come to a determination in the new year. >> incredible piece. great job. thank you for being here. >> thank you. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today.

i am meteorologist, bill karins, with your business weather. cold front in the middle of the nation and another storm move into the northwest. some of the airports will have minor problems today like the new york airports with showers, and washington, d.c., rain in seattle, and thunderstorms are near minneapolis. we've got the "name your price" option. you do? follow me. you tell us how much you want to pay, and we'll build you a policy that fits your budget.

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. time to talk about what we

learned today. >> when you are george clooney, people take off their close because they love you. >> he is no longer working for "newsweek" magazine, but jon meacham will address this later. >> mike barnicle? >> never loaning my tie to a guy at a george clooney press conference. >> and robert gibbs is sensitive, and he responded immediately. >> that's his job. i learned on the radio, between 10:00 and noon, we will talk about the president's fabulous idea. >> oh, my god! the soda tax. yes, please -- >> it's not just soda. >> and also on the radio, the beatles expert.