>> he can't do it. it's a segment, one of many. >> it's truboubling, actually. >> i played football and a quarterback, and the rest of the time i locked myself in my room and listened to bedroom. >> and it shows. >> call in and try to stump him. >> the president's primetime speech tonight. it looks like the president will endorse a public option, but the question is, is that where it ends? we will find out. stick around, because -- >> oh, my gosh, look at him. >> crazy as hell. >> i love crazy. >> he is sexy. >> i would love to ask him a question in a press conference. >> yeah, you are going to be on the radio, too.

willie geist has a following among the same-sex. >> hey, that's good with me. >> live and let live. >> if it's way too early? >> it's "morning joe." dylan ratigan will take it from here. good morning. you know at stake his ambition and goals on health care reform, what does he want? not want? forget the public option, can he get the public back on his side. and sarah palin using facebook to have a virtual stage. and then a glimpse at what may be the real republican

strategy. and do republicans object to health care reform or is it an opportunity to make him a one-term president. and then lush gardens, and an 8,000 square foot escape, and a penthouse in new york, a trip inside the lifestyle of madoff before being shipped off to prison. it's 9:00 a.m. pull up a chair and join the "morning meeting." rubber starting to meet the road. that's what the finance city committee is saying about the plan before the president's big address this evening. savannah guthrie to start things off. >> the president is involved in writing the speech. i can tell you as recently as

monday he had given 10 hand written notes to this speech, and another draft last night. he is very much involved in the message. we are told we will see the president put the meat on the bones in the health care. we are told the folks that watch the speech will come away understanding what the president stands for in the health care reform. this is what robert gibbs told msnbc a few moments ago. >> how we pay for the plan, and what is in it for people that have health insurance, namely stability, and how do we provide insurance for those struggling with the high cost of insurance and don't have that. they go to get their care from the emergency room and that costs us billions of dollars each year. >> reporter: robert gibbs admitted he left too much

ambiguity in it, and then there was miss information. that's what the president wants to do is correct what he calls miss information. and then there is a intrigue over the gang of six. there are three republicans and democrats trying to work out a deal on health care reform. senator bacchus has put out a proposal. these are some of the highlights. he said it will cost $900 billion over 10 years. insurance co-ops instead of the public option, which is so controversial. there will be a new tax on insured who have the most expensive plans. and then there would be medicaid and tax credits to help americans afford insurance, because there would be a mandate on individuals that if they did not get coverage, they would be fined. here are some of the things the

bill lays out. this is the bacchus proposal. we will find out whether republicans are willing to sign on for this. a lot of people see this as a last hope for a bipartisan deal. >> thank you. and also joining us is ron wyden. and one of the best we have had around. and then jonathan capehart, editorial writer and board member of the "washington post," and senator, i will begin with you. your thoughts on the bacchus talking points? >> this is the starting point. certainly not the end point and we are waiting for the detail. i continue to believe, the real challenge that we talked about on the show is to give choices to all the people of the country. we looked at the bills

previously, and by law, if you look to 2019, the ten-year period of the legislation, by law 15 million people would be barred from getting real choices in the market places. if you want to get real accountability, you have to give everybody choices. i will be offering those amendments in the finance committee. >> if you look at the president's task tonight, and your views and the senate's views, and those that you talked to are about dealing with health care, how far off is the president or how far off is the senate relative to the president? >> i am encouraged the president's advisers are talking more about choices and competition than in the past. that's the key to holding down costs. the fact of the matter is premiums are gobbling up everything in sight. it all goes to health care. and if we are going to turn that around, the magical words are

real choices and competition, and as i say, if you look at the bills previously, and i don't think the american people know this and the people carrying the public option signs around the country know this, and the fact is by law in 2019, something like 250 million people are barred from having real choices in the marketplace. that needs to change. >> public option? dead? alive? what is your sense of its role at this point in relevancy? >> i think it will continue to be debated. i was stunned this summer at the reaction from folks. i had eight town hall meetings and people are all over the bleachers with signs of the public option, and then i would tell them 90% of them would not get the public option, they would be barred by law from choosing it and people practically fell out of the bleachers. we have to give people choices.

>> the biggest thing, senator, having watched this now for a couple months, and not the variety of ideas -- i am a huge fan of your plan specifically, but what strikes me is the use of this as a political prop to go after the president or somebody else. how long can america tolerate political forces not trying to solve the problem but simply trying to use this as an opportunity to conduct political assassination? >> i still hope that we can get bipartisan legislation. we have 15 senators that are supporting a lot of the ideas that we are talking about. the words the president will use tonight, the discussion of choice, and the discussion of competition. these are words that represent american values and words that are across the spectrum. i am hoping the president's speech will rally support for the amendments that i will offer to the finance committee.

>> do you think republicans are engaging in good faith? >> i think the situation is fluid. the president has the opportunity tonight to bring people together and support some of the key principles that will promote accountability, and hold costs down and expand coverage. that's the president's opportunity tonight. >> this is jonathan capehart. you said by 2019 that 90% of the american people would be barred from the public option. could you explain why that is, 90% would be barred from choosing that option? >> the reason that is the case, in effect if a government bureaucrat says your coverage is affordable, on something like 170 million people get their coverage through an employer-based system, you could not go out in the marketplace or to the exchange. we took a look at the congressional budget office and

found the only people that get to go to the exchange are folks unemployed or uninsured in small businesses. many of the unemployed -- these groups actually overlap. it becomes a very small fraction. it's done primarily to protect the status quo. i think there is a weak spot in between blowing up the employer-based system, and i think free choice will get us there and give all americans choices, and over a four or five year period, this administration needs to explain that. >> you also have a individual mandate and your subsidies go higher. do you think the bill is affordable? >> we have been running the numbers, ezra, and i think there is a long way to go on the

affordability question. you make $65,000 a year, and paying $8,000 for your premium, and you need to broaden the subsidies. it will be the strategy in terms of the affordability. i continue to believe if you change the tax exclusion which disproportionally favors the wealthy in the society, that will be another area i will try to change in the finance committee. >> thank you. we look forward to continuing the dialogue to you. tonight, you can watch the president in primetime addressing congress right here on msnbc. the coverage is anchored by keith oeberman, and rachel maddow and chris matthews. the british squad stormed in after a man and his interpreter.

in the raid to rescue ferrell, his interpreter and a british commando were killed. hillary the movie is playing at the supreme court. >> she will make up any story, lie about anything, as long as it serves her purpose at the moment. the american people will catch on to it. >> here is the issue, should this be considered a campaign ad and subject to campaign finance laws. if it is, it may change how political groups affect future elections. the argument session will be the first for new justice, sotomayor. and pete williams is at the high court now. tell us about this particular case? >> when this case was argued in

the spring. that was the question whether this ad should come under the normal limits of advertising. the question is should unions be banned from using their own money for the ads. and they say that's unconstitutional on free speech, and those laws should be backed down. people that support the laws, they say if they are struck down, corporation voices would drown out everybody else's, and it could lead to the possibility of corruption in the political process. we could go back to 100 years ago when people talked about the senator from standard oil. it will be judge sotomayor's first case, and she is not the critical vote. the question really is will

justice alito support this bill. >> thank you. an oversight panel says most of the money provided to help gm and chrysler is unlikely to be paid back, because the prospect of recovering the money is tied to the stock price of both companies rising to unprecedented levels, dylan. >> the interesting will be to see if the $14 trillion that the fed will come back our way. >> we will keep our fingers started. much more ahead here on the "morning meeting." including sarah palin's new political platform, otherwise known as facebook.com. she is using it as a great political vehicle. what a gal. that's my favorite politician, as jonathan capehart, tends to enjoy.

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well, sarah palin may not have a political office any more, but has her voice and is using it again to talk death panels. contessa has the details. >> yeah, she writes in an op ed for the journal, she talk bz rationing care. her death panels and the life counseling. never mind most lawmakers dismissed her claim, palin was back on facebook yesterday

posting written testimony that she sent to a panel on aging. she insisted that it's no myth. in her op-ed she says this. >> thank you, contessa. >> facebook, the "wall street journal," you name it, sarah palin has a political platform without having to leave the house. jonathan capehart, a huge palin supporter and expert, jonathan, at this point, what strikes me -- it's not just sarah palin, but throughout particularly the deep republican resistance is there is nothing about that faction of our political

community that suggests that they have any interest in being part of the solution for anything? >> no, not at all. >> which suggests that they either think the american health care system works, which means that they don't understand math, or that they could careless and are willing to cotorpedo the american health care broken system in order to accumulate political power? >> well, it could be that. accumulate political power to hurt the president. the whole waterloo conversation. >> we will get to that. >> yeah, i know. i read palin's op-ed in the "wall street journal." 17 paragraphs, and in one paragraph, just one, does she say what she thinks should be in health care bill. it's a series of one liners. she says here, rather than another top gun government plan,

let's give americans control over their own health care. some of the things she will propose, you will need action from congress and washington to make it happen. >> you mean like a law? >> yeah, exactly. >> bizarre. >> more power to her for using facebook, far be it for me to criticize, and crate that she had an op-ed in the wall street journal, and other than that, i just wish she could stay to the real solutions or stay quiet. >> what is the need for all the laws? >> it's hard to say. i enjoyed the op-ed. it's the jedi mind trick. and it was like, death panels are verified, and i was like, oh, okay. and that was much more radical

than anything we are talking about. she wanted to dismantle medicare and create a whole new structure in which it would flood back into the senior market. and everybody would need a card to get private insurance for the elderly. the risk adjustment you would need and the reimbursement questions you would have in that. it's tremendous. that would be on the scale of nothing we have done in generations. i don't want to under play the ambition of the op-ed here. >> thank you for engaging the conversation. capehart, i know it's difficult for you sometimes. >> he is a maverick. we are going to plug into something here. we will find a wall and stick it in. the deadly aids virus -- this is fun for me, compared to hitler. we will show you the shocking ad turning heads in germany. we are back here plugging into that apparently after this. um bill--

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a new ad hitting the airwaves. contessa has more on the story. >> here is an ad, it's running in germany. it shows a steamy scene of a couple making love. we will show it. >> sure. >> you are in the darkened bedroom, and the viewer only sees the back of the lover's head for a while. again, what happens is the camera -- did you see that? it shows hitler, and it says here is the aids awareness message, aids is a mass murderer. that's wrong. it provokes strong emotion and shock, and that's the point, to show that aids is the killer. now, another story that has

gotten shock. they are banning condecemberant light bulb. and so here is the part where the shock and the disgust where the shock comes in. america is following it. new technology comes along. >> i like it where we send a lot of money to people in the world that want to kill us. >> what does that have to do with light bulbs? >> energy. you spend money to buy oil. >> i am glad you explained it. >> we buy oil from people that like to kill us, and the more money we burn the more money we give them to try and kill us.

>> that's good that you explain that. it makes sense. now, we are actually going to be four sectioned ruled by mexico, canada, and the e.u. and china. i don't know where the four sections are being split up. >> i don't know. mexico has good music and colorful blankets. i don't know. and coming up, when it comes to health care reform, is the goal to take down the president of the united states? there is a good argument for exactly that. we are back after this. gecko: uh, you wanted to see me sir?

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let's reset the agenda here on the half hour. health care reform -- it may be a now or never matter for the president. you know this, he makes a primetime speech to make the sell. we will speak with linda douglas in 30 minutes. and then the back-to-school-speech.

now, bussing children to listen to politics. they are playing politics and at least they are honest. and getaway and a yacht, madoff's life of luxury. it could help his victims. i am not sure those apartments are worth $50 billion or $60 billion. investors worried about the falling dollar. we took the bank risk and stuck it with the taxpayer. not good, obviously for the dollar. now, the trigger may not stand a chance. contessa, what is going on? >> the public option has become the center of controversy. a lot of people are concerned about the government offering a health insurance plan, basically, and putting other insurance companies out of

business. so the lawmakers went back to the table and came up with a trigger. that is to say that it gives insurers time to change the way they do business, and offer affordable options for people that could not otherwise afford insurance. if they don't do it, it would trigger the public option if the benchmarks are not met. that entices the gop and moderates. and they say it's time to have a trigger, and the way to do that is to come up with a lot of public option. here is the republican on -- this is mike pence on the gop conference. bottom line, dylan, you have republicans who are digging in, and not only opposing the public

option, but opposing a public option trigger, and it leaves you to wonder is there anything the republicans would get behind when it comes to health care reform. >> jonathan capehart, what is the answer to the question contessa just asked? >> well, of course. get rid of preexisting conditions, and make it more affordable and accessible and do it in a way where it does not include a government takeover. they have been pushing the plan. and they are the minority. there is a few key republican moderates. and he doesn't want to negotiate with the mitch's of the world because there is not an agreement. >> what about the statement where this is less about health care and more opportunity for

the republicans to make obama a one-term health care. >> if we are able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him and we will show that we can, along with the american people, begin to push those freedom solutions that work in every area. >> how big is the community inside the republican party that you can tell that doesn't care about health care one way or another but sees it as a opportunity to make this guy a one-term president? >> few. most republicans want to deal with health care reform, but not obama's health care reform. and their constituents have said do not do the plan in any way shape or form. they need to have a bipartisan agreement and get something that fixes the problem and doesn't bankrupt the country. >> when you look at the balance of the republican proposals, and you look at the president, as you compare and contrast everything that circulates in

the town that you sit right now, how valid are the republican efforts to solve the fundamental problems of insured and expense and how valid are those issues? >> not valid at all. the fact of the matter is that they began with something and lost them. the gang of six began with four republican members, as opposed to three democratic members. there have been a number of options for a real by part bill. the republicans were at the table from the beginning. at every turn it's like politics don't allow the republicans to negotiate. and there is a great line where clinton is in the middle, and it's about bob dole. dole voted against two bills that he sponsored voted against.

and it's hard to cooperate. >> you look at the behavior, and i can go left and right on this, and you wonder, and can the government function in the interest of the people or whether the politicians are so vested in trying to exploit and perceive weakness to accumulate power they are willing to torpedo the rest of the country. >> well, what they don't want is a public option or government-run health care. ezra, i was in the congress in '93 and '94, and i was working with bob dole. he had a superior plan. the democrats torpedos it because they did not want republicans to get a victory. and bob dole, those were votes put up by democrats -- >> bob dole signed the bill and

voted against it. you can't change that fact. >> well, they killed the bill in '93 and '94, because they were worried about the republican alternative. if they had done what the republicans wanted to do in '93 and '94, we would not be in the problem that we are in today. >> the town you are in, is -- are they just playing fun with america's future? >> i hope they are not playing with america's future. but when you listen to the senator's comment from july, you hear all of the comments about how republicans have plans, they have plans and the president doesn't want to negotiate with them. but we only hear criticisms of what the democrats have proposed. yet no solutions from the republican -- wait, wait, wait. >> that's not accurate. >> wait. it would be great once there is

a criticism specifically the democrats want to do, the republicans would come back and say we have a better idea and here it is. >> just because you don't listen to them doesn't mean they don't do it. >> that's not true. i have on a number of times. >> john, go ahead. >> clear the record. what is the republican's plan? >> get rid of preexisting conditions and do not have a government-takeover. tort reform, which is important in driving down cost, and have a plan that does not include this huge government takeover. >> so tort reform of some kind, which is not being discussed, and ought be discussed, and no preexisting conditions and a national mandate, john? >> some sort of individual mandate that they work through. >> hold on, john. ezra, what is beginning a conversation at least in that area? >> nothing something wrong with it. when you look at max bacchus's

plan, which is with three republicans in the room, and it has an individual mandate and subsidies to make it affordable and takes out preexisting conditions, and there is room to negotiate on tort reform. it's absolutely correct that senator coburn and ryan brought out a plan, but it's much too small. but there are places for bipartisan compromises. and piece by piece, people are leaving the table. there have been bipartisan processes here that have been taken down systematically by the republicans within them. when grassley was the guy writing the bill, and there were huge risks to keep him there, and people are scratching their head saying the republicans are not interested in helping this. >> one of the criticisms of the

democrats, and i think it's appropriate for the republicans, neither party has any -- well, they look as if there are four factions here. >> yeah, we are talking about the republican and democratic divide, and then the blue dog and progressive divide. when speaker pelosi came out of the meeting with the president, she said, you know, public option. we are for public option. still drawing that hard line in the sand that my members won't go for it if there is no public option. >> we need to draw a line between any politician who wants to solve the problem and any politician that doesn't, irrespective of their affiliations. >> thank you for joining us. tonight you can catch president obama's primetime address to congress right here on msnbc, and the coverage is

anchored by chris matthews and rachel maddow and keith olbermann. now, there are a variety of questions for sanford. lawmakers want to see him step aside. in a letter it's written. >> ron mott is in atlanta. what is the reaction of the governor even with the speaker of the house calling for his resignation? >> he seems not at all bothered by this. he says he is not looking for a fight from the legislators. he does not think that he has done anything unlawful and worthy of impeachment. he was asked about impeachment possibilities. here is what he had to say.

>> there have been eight governors impeached in the history of the nation, and they have been for really heinous things in terms of taking money out of the general fund of the state and purchasing property. hundreds of thousands of dollars. and so i would say there is certainly a world of difference between what has happened in those instances and what has happened here. >> what he is saying that, yes, he left the state to go down to argentina to carry out the affair with the mistress down there, and he wants to continue to govern. he says whatever happens, he said he will let the people decide so far on the so-called apology tour. he said people have forgiven him, largely. >> dylan, again, another governor. why not put your nose to the grind stone and do the work. >> or quit like spitzer did, and try to be useful in some other position. do the work or get out of our

face? what are you going to do? we're going inside bernie madoff's world. i tried to get the prison consultant back, because that's the most fun we had with bernie, but no luck today. instead, we will go inside the west wall many beach mansion and the apartment on lexington avenue, and this is the man that liked nice homes near glamorous locations, but necessarily on them or in them or at them. we are back after this. get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network.

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good morning, everybody. i am contessa brewer. for decades bernie madoff was charity to many. but his billion dollar house of cards came tumbling down.

he left investors with nothing. now they are trying to selloff his property. let's begin with his 4,000 square foot park avenue penthouse. it includes a wrap around terrace, and living and dining rooms bigger than some apartment buildings in new york city. cherry paneling and leather furniture. this is the desk where they found 100 checks worth $173 million madoff was ready to send out to relatives and close friends after he realized the ponzi scheme was unraveling. and then the estate in palm beach, florida. it includes a chevron shaped pool. a lush garden. 100-foot private dock on the coastal waterway. fittingly enough, the man had a

thing for bulls, and it was reflected in art as well. and it will bring at least $20 million to compensate victims, dylan. >> let's bring back jonathan capehart. and pop culture expert and msnbc contributor -- >> i think it would be weird to live in a madoff place. and someplace where you saw the infamous photographs of him, and knowing they laid their heads there. >> you are not laying your head on their heads, though. >> yeah, but it's at the same place. >> i feel like you are trying to negotiate a better price. >> for one thing, have you to

pay cash. the government does not mortgage. you have to pay the whole thing. i think jonathan is out. i am out. you are in the running -- >> no, i am out. >> you are out? >> here is what i noticed about mr. madoff. he tends to buy real estate near to where really nice real estate is and move away from it. in other words, he -- in palm beach, he doesn't buy a place on the ocean, but on the canal. he doesn't buy a place on fifth avenue, or park, but -- he takes the driving discount, if you will. a little extra couple miles saves him a couple bucks. >> it allows him to hide. when you are not a main street, nobody knows what you are doing and where you live and what you got. >> that's what i do. >> but we know he has a lot of bull. >> what are you laughing at? >> i love this story.

everybody is who is just so happy to see madoff crumbling. here you go. >> and our main man out in l.a., larry levene. >> well, i prison. >> jonathan, the government is going to net about 20 million from selling its home. it's a drop in the bucket to what madoff owes these victims. but i don't think the victims should be compensated based on what they thought they had. they should be compensated on what that he gave to the fund which is probably far less. >> that is really good. >> capehart likes my idea! >> yeah. >> toure is picking up financial expertise and hanging out with me. >> generational theft, bud. >> right? he knows that. anyway. thank you. gentlemen. heading to the break room next.

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anne frank coming to the big screen to the break room we go. the latest entertainment and pop culture news. yes, frngs expert and pop culture expert. what do you got? >> it's 9/9/09 which is exciting for some people. >> true. the same number. >> right. yeah, right. nine is associated with forgiveness and arrogance which i guess makes it good for this show for some reason, i don't know why. there is movie called "nine" coming out. >> like i said it's all the same number. >> just a number. >> didn't we have 8/08/08 a

while ago? >> it was a while ago. moving on. the diary of anne frank is a heartwarming story that it sold 25 million copies so, of course, hollywood has to have its say. jesus, where are we going next? david mammoth is going to direct this film. >> profanity, that guy. >> not on this show, though. he's been up and down as a film director. he is helping on the project. i wonder if anne frank will be played by dakota fanning? maybe. tyler perry is adapting culture goal for the screen and write and direct a film on the classic play for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow is enough and there is great trepidation what perry is going to do to the great play but if, nothing else, he will change the unemployment rate for black actresses. one good thing. the one film breathless about is

"wall street 2." >> he is getting out of jail. >> oliver stone is covering the financial tsunami of 2008 and '09:00. michael douglas won best actor for that and there is a little my man, jim cramer because we're in cramerica. >> i don't think they like it when you say they stole the money and the truth makes them irtaed. >> i think that is part of the point of the film. >> i think it part of the point of that film. >> you would be perfect. >> one would think, but no. they don't like the way i look. >> they are still filming. maybe there is time. >> i doubt it. still ahead, health care reform, is it now or never? linda douglass from the white house with us after this.

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good morning to you. welcome back. i'm dylan ratigan. topping our agenda for the hour, president obama now or never. the president getting ready for high stakes address to the congress to sell his vision of health care reform to our country. what does he need to say and who does he need to convince? we're speaking with white house health communications director linda douglass in a second. americans paying more and more while health insurance companies get richer and richer. what happens if there is no action on health care reform? then one school district boycotted obama's back to school beach but now bussing the very same students to listen to former president george w. bush so if you thought they were playing politics, you're right. god to have gadgets and speculation building around apple's special event today. will steve jobs with there? is there some sort of a crazy touch screen tablet kindle brain

outsourcing music machine that i don't know? i don't understand these things. but, goodness, they sure can do a lot. it's 10:00 a.m. pull up a chair. join the "morning meeting." all right. this could be it. two of the biggest developments in the health care development so far this morning. waiting to see if the gang of six can get behind a bipartisan bill pushing hard for a comom. president obama hours away from a speech to congress that could define his presidency. white house press secretary robert gibbs just told reporters off camera the president is still working on the speech and that it should be locked down this afternoon. we start this hour with linda douglass, a communications director for the white house office of health reform. welcome back back to the meeting and thank you for making time for us. what is your sense of the imperative for the message a few hours from now? >> well, the imperative, of course, is the imperative for

the american people who have been struggling under rising health costs that are doubled the last decade and rising three times faster than wages and been subjected to unfair insurance regulations that deny you coverage when you're sick so there is definitely an imperative. the president now is going to take this moment to focus the country's attention on what they really care about, which is how we are going to create a health care system that offers stability and stuart for people who have insurance, and affordable optionses for people who don't have health insurance and it will reduce the high costs, unsustainable rate of growth in health care spending which could double again in the next decade. >> who is the audience for this evening's speech? >> clearly, the american people is the audience. you know, every american is concerned about this issue. this affects every single person. it is the most personal issue in the country. americans are seeing their wages stay stagnant as you can compensated increasingly with health benefits rather than

money can you spend. 1 in 3 americans in the last couple of years went without health insurance for a certain period of time. with when that happens to you you don't have many affordable options. the president will be talking directly to the american people about that tonight as well as the members of congress who got some decisions to make. >> we were talking earlier, and about how there are qour constituencies. the deep left in congress and center left, the blue dogs, et cetera. then center right that has tort reform and other ideas they want to introduce and deep right looks like they just want to take down the president. how do you sort of break up the congress politically to try to create a coalition that could maybe get something done, as bizarre as that may sound? >> not to dispute your analysis. i'm not sure the president will be looking at it that way. i mean, you know, what you see in a joint session of congress are members of congress who went home over the august recess and those who really spent time with

their constituents heard one thing and that is that inaction is not an option. you heard republicans, republicans who oppose health care reform, who appear to be supporting the status quo saying that actually the status quo cannot be tolerated. so, certainly, the question is going to be to those who don't want to do anything what do you do about health care costs doubled the last ten years and what do you do about the increasing number of americans who have no affordable options for their families and they've heard this from their constituents and i think that is on their minds tonight as they listen to the president. >> let's run through some of the baucus talking points what is released up to this point. your thoughts on not only the mandate that the individual mandate through penalties, but through everything that you've seen out of baucus up to this point. >> well, you know, senator baucus as you probably have been reporting the last couple of days released an outline of an idea that he is presenting to six senators who -- bipartisan group working very hard to come

up with some kind of a consensus and it contains many ideas, many ideas that the president himself has talked about. and what we've got to see the final product is and what kind of an agreement they reach. four or five committees, by the way, have passed legislation built on the president's principles. 80% agreement among those bills but we'll have to see what the finance committee finally comes up with. >> let's talk about the specifics we know right now. insurance co-ops instead of pup option. new tax on insurers with the most expensive plans. medicaid and tax credits to help offset, in other words, subsidizing those who can't afford it through tax credits and the penalties. co-ops versus public option something, obviously, the president has already discussed himself. >> well, you put out several ideas. those are pieces of that -- >> no, i haven't. those are max baucus. >> i mean i know. you are talking about what is in an outline which has not been agreed to yet. so we generally don't talk about the specifics of something that is still very much a work-in-progress and being written. we want to talk about it once

they finally have something that is finalized to show to the rest of us. >> how important is the public option in the context of this? not that it must be there rn you but that it must be referenced in some way even if it's done through some sort of a trigger mechanism? >> let's tu about that for a moment. the president talked repeatedly as early as monday when he made the speech to the afl-cio on labor day about the importance of having available a public option on the insurance exchange. the insurance exchange is not for most americans. 165 americans -- 165 million americans get their insurance at work. they wouldn't be buying insurance on the exchange. this is for people who don't have health insurance, who can't get it through work, so are forced to go out and find it on their own and pay exorbitant rates. for those people there would be an exchange, a marketplace we want to make affordable options available and one way to drive those prices down and make competition more lively is to have a public option available. that is the goal.

choice and competition for those folks who can't find affordable coverage. >> jonathan capehart just mentioned off camera the following question which is if there is not the ability to create some sort of legislative consensus in congress, at what point is the president and will the president entertain introducing a version of his own legislation, his own expectations from legislation if congress can't do it themselves? >> we're not going to get into hypotheticals hobles honestly at this point. what we have right now is absolutely strong forward progress as all of the committees. we are very close and almost there and closer than we've been in decades. no reason to talk about the hypotheticals yet. the finance committee you reported this morning is working hard and expected to come up with some legislation. >> my last question which has been my question of the day, if you will, do you get the sense those in opposition to health care proposals, whatever they may be, basketball cuss, wyden/benefit nen deny ben net, something out of the house those opposition to the president or health care in general on the

right are doing in this bad faith? they are doing this in the demint sense to try to take down the president and have no interest in actually even having a health care debate? >> i don't think i want to get into the motivations of republicans who have been speaking out against any form of health reform. i mean, obviously, we've had decades to any change in the system and as a result of that health costs have doubled and people going without health insurance and 12 million americans last year denied coverage because they were discriminated against because they had preexisting conditions. these are intolerable facts and this is what the president and the country and members of congress want to tackle tonight. >> but in brief, do you feel like the negotiations in general on every side of this point, including the more extreme factions on the left or right, are still being entered into in good faith? >> well, you know, as i said, i don't think we want to talk about the motivations of some of the political statements that various people have made. what we have here is a problem

the country expects their leaders to solve at last and the pressure is going to be on those who oppose every kind of reform, who are opposing the changes that would provide relief. the pressure is going to be on them to say what are you going to do to finally lower these costs and protect americans from practices that deny them coverage now? we'd like to hear some answers to that. >> here here. linda douglass, thank you very much. the president out of the white house this evening on mns. you can watch his prime time address to congress at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. keith, rachel and chris matthews at the helm for this evening's coverage. contessa brewer is here with the balance of today's news. british squad tormed in after steven farrell entered his interpreter. he was captured on sunday. he was interviewing villagers but killed dozens including civilians in the raid to rescue him and his interpreter and

british commando were killed. the british times took the kidnapping quiet out of concern for the men's safety. banned international troops from drinking booze in that country. u.s. troops aren't allowed to drink alcohol any time or anywhere in a war zone but many allied forces are permitted to drink a moderate amount if off duty but this issue blew up when contracted security guards were seen in kabul in naked booze fests so now anyone working in the kabul headquarters have to stick with soft drinks. iran this hour, the country's foreign minister handed over a package of proposals to representatives of world power to help resolve the standoff over its nuclear program. no word what is in the proposals but according to iran's english language tv it contains various global be issues so we'll see if we can learn more details. live pictures from new york city where president obama is expected to speak any moment at

a memorial honoring walter cronkite. the service is just getting under way at lincoln center. other speakers include former president bill clinton and tom brokaw and others. supporters of the late senator ted kennedy are vowing to pack a public hearing at the massachusetts statehouse. they want lawmakers to allow the governor to name an interim replacement for kennedy's vacant senate seat. among the supporters planning to attend, senator john kerry. critics call it a democratic political power grab to insure enough votes to pass president obama's health care plan. federal agency is banning employees from texting and talking on cell phones while driving in the no dud department. the head of the ntsb says she wants her agency to follow the same safety practices it recommends for others. a florida sheriff's deputy is in hot water with his boss after a video surfaced showing

him tasering a guy for the fun of it. the video was posted on mayes. it shows the off-duty deputy tasing a friend at a party and other people around laughing. the sheriff doesn't really get the humor that deputy matthew trembley is showing here so now he is the subject of an internal investigation and faces punishment for mandatory counseling to perhaps losing his job. party games now involve tasing. >> i had a thought i shouldn't share on television. thank you very much. a lot to get on the agenda this half-hour of the meeting. up next one school district decided against broadcast's president obama's address to students. meanwhile, they are bussing fifth graders to hear former president george bush speak. are they playing politics? yes, they are. we are back after this. [ woman ] dear cat. gentle cat.

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school district in texas refufg to air president obama's back to school message yesterday but hearing from former president bush for some reason a very different story. contessa has more. >> it's raising eyebrows inside the community of arlington, texas. one is calling on school officials to explain what he calls the due listity in the situation. they practicesed on airing obama's speech but now is letting their students hear from former president bush. in fact, they are load ago bunch of fifth graders on to buses, sending them to cowboy stadium for the event later this month. part of the super bowl committee's youth education program. you know, this is the same district that decided against

broadcasting the current president's message on education yesterday because of parental concerns. one note, kids who got permission from their parents were allowed to watch obama's speech off campus and they will need parental permission to go to the bush event as well. >> obviously, we are politicizing our children. the question is what does this do to the children? i suppose? that is the question we're asking right now. jeff gardere back with us. when you use your children as a political vehicle expression, good thing, bad thing? does this get them involved early and you're like i don't like obama but i like bush. does that get them involved early? >> i think a good thing and bad thing. good thing you're saying you get them involved early and they start learning about politics. the bad thing is we, as parents, psychologically, have a hard time individualizing from our children letting them have independence of thought.

the other bad thing is, look, the bottom line is that a lot of these folks think that this president is a socialist. they are striking fear into the hearts of their children and into their neighbors and i think now we're seeing a division in this country about this president because of some of his beliefs that are not socialist, but he is moving quickly and that is a culture shock for a lot of folks. >> particularly if you look at the bush/obama comparison and the socialist anxiety when i find ironic in that is the totality of the policies and the banking system and the auto system were instituted under george bush, which means if you believe obama is a socialist for his banking and automotive bailout policies, by desks, george bush is the socialist who created the socialist policies that obama, if nothing else, is guilty of perpetuating although he didn't create any of them. is there irony there? how could one guy be a socialist and -- >> the irony here there is a real backlash against this president. >> but it's made up.

>> well, it's this issue of a culture shock. it is absolutely grand in this great country of ours that we have a president who happens to be black. i don't think people have digested that of yet and because they have not, he is moving very quickly, as i said earlier. so for them to be able to deal with a black president and one who is moving to change policies in such a quick way and such a broad way, i think is very difficult for people to deal with and i think we have to look at it in that way. >> you're saying you think people are angered to watch a black president? i'm confused by that. in other words, he's been in the job eight months. >> i think, they are anxious and it's a lot for them to be able to deal with. notice i didn't say the word race or prejudice because i don't think that is what it's about. i think we have to give people the time and psychological space to be able to acknowledge and understand that we have a person who is president, who is black,

and there is still racism in this world, not necessarily against this person, but they have preconceived notions as to who people of color are and now he is the top cat. how do you deal with that? >> the preconceived notion suggests that the value system of somebody who is black is different than the value system of somebody who is not black which strikes me as absurd? but is that what you're suggesting some. >> i think the important thing we shouldn't paint people as being evil or bad because they may have preconceived notions as to issues of colors. it happens to be the way it is. even this prejudice does not address race. did he that with reverend jeremiah wright. >> you're right! >> right, right, right. but that was the only time he spoke about race because even this president knows he has made his statement being black. he doesn't need to say anything else about race because he knows that the country is not quite ready for it and i think this is what we're seeing in this particular issue, along with the

whole policies he is trying to get as far as health care, i think that is where you're seeing the backlash. >> i wanted to add to what jeff said is let's understand the people squawking the most. these are the folks who are on the far right, conservative wing of the republican party. these are folks who didn't vote for barack obama, who probably haven't voted for a democrat in a very long time and i think part of the reason why the republican party will remain a regional party unless it can pull the moderates from, you know, behind the curtains who of course hiding, sort of afraid of these far right conservatives. you know, until that happens, the republicans will remain just a regional party -- or reactionary party which is exactly what we're seeing. >> jonathan, thank you so much and, doctor. >> i notice jonathan didn't say anything about race but he really did say something about race. he didn't use the word. >> that is because he is brilliant. >> he is! >> capehart is very smart and it

differentiates him. >> a nice smile, too. i will see you guys tomorrow. >> we are plugging into politics next. new york and california have both considered a so-called fat tax on soda and other sugary drinks. but is president obama taking a look at the same thing as part of his health care plan and should we be taxing human behavior? live pictures from the memorial service for newsman walter cronkite. president obama expected to speak some time this hour at that service. we'll bring it to you live when it happens. we're back at the "morning meeting" after this. only on msnbc. you like your health coverage, but worry what happens... if you get sick, or change jobs. eight ways reform matters to you.

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and more on sugary soft drinks. >> representative gene schmidt of ohio was in an event on labor day and she was talking about ql

the whether the president belongs in the white house. her here is what she had to say whether he was born in hawaii. she said in june -- july, the president is indeed a citizen of this country. i voted as a member of the house to certify the vote of the electoral college electing him as our president. i mi not agree with his politics except as our president. except when someone came up to her and arguing back again that the president doesn't belong there, here is what representative schmidt said. >> i -- ma'am, ma'am. >> a president by our country! >> i'm sorry. >> i believe you. i support you. >> did you catch that? she said i agree with you but the courts don't. that seems to refute what she said in july about the president being born here legitimately. >> a frequent thing that is refuting. >> caught on camera. >> ever changing.

>> how about this one? president obama it looks like might be be open to taxing sugary sodas. >> sure. >> don't work in new york. they tried it in new york. according to "men's health" what did the president tell you about taxing sugary drinks? >> i didn't expect him to the idea but he said he thinks it's something to consider but he did acknowledge there would be political reasons it might not fly. >> for instance what would he expect as a pushback? >> well, senators and representatives in states that produce a lot of sugar and they might not be too happy if we cut back on that. >> it's interesting because i've been ready reading online why focus on people intho who are smoking. there seems to be easy eagerness to tax smokers but not for people who choose to indulge in behaviors that lead to obesity. >> the question that comes up do you tax those who ride motorcycles without helmets? or charge them more for insurance? do you tax those -- >> but they have clauses some in

states. >> there is a point where -- the slippery slope is, i'm sure you've heard this argument is once you start with soda, i'm now getting into a very vague area. >> the right to health care. doesn't that come with the responsibility? >> think about how much you're spending on corn subsidies that turn into corn syrup and how much you're paying on medicaid and medicare to treat obese people later in their lives. it is a huge government expenditure. i think the way to tackle it isn't through syntaxes but carrots are good for you and sticks make people mad. >> syntax, does it look like the president would be willing to put them in vigor toward fightinging smo something like that? >> the white house backed away from this furiously yesterday afternoon so i don't think he will pull a david patterson on us. >> thanks, peter. >> sugar. >> that wraps up plugging in for

politics. ahead, watching memorial service for legendsary broadcaster walter cronkite getting under way in new york city. the president is scheduled to speak at that. we are back with more here at the "morning meeting." [ woman ] dear cat. gentle cat. your hair mixes with pollen and dust in the air. i get congested. my eyes itch. i have to banish you to the garden. but now with zyrtec-d®, i have the proven allergy relief of zyrtec®, plus a powerful decongestant. i can breathe freer with zyrtec-d®. so, i'll race you to our favorite chair. i might even let you win. zyrtec-d® lets me breathe easier, so i can love the air™. zyrtec-d®. behind the pharmacy counter. no prescription needed.

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welcome back. we're eight we're awaiting the president at the conkrit memorial. >> we are watching this memorial right now. the president is expected to

speak here at any moment. you can see the orchestra now playing. president is just one of many illustrious speakers at this memorial today. you can see the photograph there of the legendary broadcaster overhead. here is the man who really set the stage, he set the bar very high for american broadcasters. perhaps a pivotal moment here when he announced the death of john f. kennedy and we are expecting the president, tom brokaw, among other things, to speak at the memorial so we'll keep an eye on this. hurricane fred has strengthened into a category 2 storm in the atlantic with sustained winds 105 miles an hour. forecasters say it could become a major hurricane later today. the good news is fred is not expected to affect the united states. you're getting an inside look at the palm beach, florida, estate of bernie madoff. 800 square feet of mexican tiled

mansion. includes a lovely pool, lush gardens and 100-foot private dock. estimated to be worth $11 million. they plan to sell it and help compensate thousands of victims who were duped by madoff. two people plucked from oregon coast after their boat exploded. coast guard and local fire department rescued them. the two people rescued taken to a hospital where their condition is unknown. investigationors aren't sure why the boat exploded. it was so damaged and sunk to the bottom of the bay. check this out. a shirtless rafael nadal moments after his victory at the u.s. open last night. there is a fan who just rushed on, hugged and kissed the tennis superstar. you see him -- oops! i can get to him and keep him from the fan! the player from the fan, oh, there it was. big kiss on the cheek there!

security did, as you can see, whisk the guy away and afterwards nadal said it wasn't a problem. the guy was really nice. dylan? >> as long as he was nice. to the cronkite memorial we go being held in new york. we are awaiting the arrival of the president and his comments there. in the meantime house democratic leaders say they have the votes to pass health care reform no matter what but actually getting it through may hinge on whether the final bill includes a public option and if it doesn't, there may not be a bill at all. msnbc congressional correspondent mike viqueira is following the back and forth for us on a busy day in washington, d.c. >> when the president takes the roster in the house chamber this evening he will look out and see a solid wall of republican opposition of what he wants to do with health care reform. as far as the democrats are concerned, he is going to see a

divided democratic party, of course, his own party. beyond that, through the camera lens he will see a public roughly divided between pro and conbut a lot of people who are confused about exactly what it is that is involved in this plan. obviously, all of the misinformation didn't help over the course of august but it's complicated to begin with. we reduced it to the easiest to grasp thing, the most make or break issue, the most contentious issue emerged the past couple of months and whether there will be that public option but a million differents in and outs of this thing that stands to effect the way each and every american get their health care. obviously, opponents to this have capitalized on this confusion. they sought to so doubt and they've capitalized on the ignorance that is out there as a matter of fact, about what is going on with health care as it stands in this country and that is the job of the president as is seen by the prebs members of congress here who want to see health care reform. they want the president to spell it out and make it clear what each individual american, regular american who might

already have insurance stand to benefit, how their costs could be lowered and how their relationships with their doctors and so forth. all of the arguments we heard before we not be affected. in a sense they are starting back at step one and he will be specific as he has been. maximum baucus and that gang of six we have talked about them ad nauseam as well. they are are supposed to meet at 11:00 this morning after baucus asked for their response to his proposals in by 10:00. we don't know whether the responses have been forthcoming and what they are but we are staked out at that office and 11:30 we expect that gang of six to reconvene. >> mike, thank you. at least one republican says this doesn't have to be all or nothing debate. we learned the past our that utah republican senator be orrin hatch is asking the president to push for incremental reform plan and warns moving too fast. he wants the president to focus on areas where parties agree

including providing health care for all americans and reducing costs and helping small businesses and giving states the flexibility to design their own approaches. with us is esrey klein. if you were look at the argument from where i sit it seems somewhat rational. in other words, if things that everybody agrees on you can do now, like the two-bill strategy, you do whatever agrees on to make more competitive markets and then you take up the other business or is that -- am i wrong in that thinking? >> i mean, no. everything on the table is so deeply incremental. we talked about that before. it's a bit more radical. what the president is doing that wouldn't change your or my insurance and sort of help the lower ends of the market is incremental. what orrin hatch is proposing sounds like the baucus bill. tends to be a situation. people begin to suggest what they support is in some fundamental way different on the

table but in fact, a lot of things people saying they support are iterations of what is on the table. the range of discussion we're operating in but they don't seem interested in operating within it so you wonder what are you asking for here? >> and that brings us to the importance of getting a bill, a single bill on the table and then having it be open to real debate. in other words, are we going to get there at the very least? >> one would hope. we talked earlier about this now or never idea and a number that sticks in my mind, drew altman looked at how observe we do these sort of major health care reform pushes and how long it takes from one to end and the next begin. the average 19.5 years. so this goes down and we fall sort of trend here, it will be about 20 years until a president comes in with the majority and the will and the energy to really give this another shot. so ths this is a pretty high stakes game here. it's not a good thing to sit in

the system and let the current damage continue for another 20 years. >> eric cantor is a republican offering his own thoughts on what the republicans need to do here. this just a second ago. take a listen. >> what it really is, i think, for us as republicans in house is an opportunity hopefully, for us to see our president willing to start to hoch foekus on areas we can agree on and not just focus on the areas that divide us. >> to the extent to which any of the rhetoric is conciliatory, is it credible? >> i would like it to be, right? i can't figure out which of the areas that divide obama is focusing on. he is waffling fairly hard on the public plan saying he likes it not the core of reform and everything else in there is pretty much way it's said in orrin hatch's letter. no more preexisting conditions, health insurance exchanges.

a lot of this looks like lincoln republican bill in 1983 or 1994. you get to place there have been these opportunities to build a bipartisan bill and what we're getting looks like comes out of those meetings but republicans left at the very end of it. >> that is what sort of strikes people as, i think, do the people that admitstrate our congress? >> it's almost a philosophical question, dylan. i'm of the belief personally after spending more than a decade up here covering the congress for nbc that politicians internalize when it becomes second nature to them so you're left accepting what they say at face value. republicans satisfy think want health reform. that is an article of faith in this entire debate.

on the other hand their job and function in our system of government, if you pardon me for a moment is to be the opposition. i think we should be thankful there is a vigorous opposition. it gets frustrating when you see both sides misrepresent the facts and demagogue to play on people's fears and ignorance but that is the way it is and always been that way. all of this procedural discussion we've had the last several weeks whether it's the right approach that the white house it is taking and letting this be organic process to gurgle up through congress, the conventional wisdom is the president has done this all wrong i'm not sure if i agree with that, frankly. because it's been demonstrated that sending something up here to congress is not going to work, that congress knows its constituencies and factions and ins and outs better than the president does. it hasn't worked so fact but maybe it's a bridge too far. it remains to be seen at this point.

>> if you were to look at the talking points left and right for those you talk about competition, they talk about the mandate, they talk about then having create a competition and a mandate and providing some mechanism to subsidize those who can't afford it so you have accessibility, quickly, though, you lose the agreement on how to achieve that. how is it that you have so many people able to agree to the same principles of competition and mandate and subsidy and, yet, no ability to agree on how? >> i mean, the big question there is -- right? it's easy for people to agree on doing things and hard to pay for them. owe liver olympia snow, the big problem with her as i understand it she is big on increasing the affordability and moving the subsidies to 400% poverty and making it cheaper for families who need help but low on most ways of paying for it and taken a lot of things off the table and won't accept a lot of things so you have a bit of a problem there. but for all of those speaking

it's not a policy discussion. if it was was that we would end up with bob dole and tom daschle and howard baker agreed to earlier this year or the wyden/bennett bill and it's a political discussion and you can't take that out of it and when you can't take it out of it, the poll number changes and closer to re-election. >> the question is when you deal with something like health care, though, which is clearly that something any politician in their right mind would want to have more of and better quality at a lower cost and if the mechanisms to do that, in other words, by mandating it and by creating more competition and driving down price, however you want to do that, whether it's penalties, administered by max baucus or more competitive bidding introduced by ron wyden, this feels to me like a problem that is mathematically solvable. if we agree we want more health care for more people for the least amount of money this seems

like a complex math problem not a political problem which inherently sort of i guess makes the process more difficult but if we can drive the fact that there is a right answer to this question. this is not a political point of view, we can get more health care for more people if we have a more intelligent structure, period. can that be a viable sort of war cry if you politically or is that simply too -- there is not enough emotion in that? >> it should be a viable war cry, but the thing i keep coming to it had you heard the wyden, bennett bill and baucus bill. they are free of some tax if your employer gives you health care. if your employer doesn't give you health care you pay the full tax. it hurts people unemployed and those aren't the ones you want to hurt and baucus proposed capping it and it got murdered by unions and workers, by polls

and it's simply the most sensible thing can you do in the system. there is a situation which people who have something they feel like they are going to lose if they gt congress and the people who don't know what they are about to gain they don't. so it's congress where the mass is overwhelmed by the cries. >> a pleasure. mike, your reporting is always welcome and appreciate it. you can watch the president tonight in prime time here on msnbc at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. the coverage anchored by keith olbermann and tune in and stick with them through the duration of the day. up next on the "morning meeting," on the heels. apple as latest announcement later today we will take a look at the hot gadgets and gizmos as we head into the fall season. i'm here on this tiny little plane, and guess what...

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had the most trusted news program because he had an inquiring mind and a caring heart and a careful devotion to the facts. and because you really sensed that in the words of his own auto biography, he had a deep aversion to group conformity.

he was always looking for the story, not the story line. and there is a big difference. but after he left cbs, i didn't think much about it. i looked at some of his specials. then when i became president, we were vacationing on martha's vineyard together and we would be thrown together at dinner parties or reception, or whatever. he started to talk to me about his young years before tv and when he worked for upi, when he, like ronald reagan did, third-hand radio accounts of sporting events. and kansas city, when it was a pretty hot town, and houston, before it was one of our great ma trop poe list and i just

wound up being crazy about the guy. for reasons that had nothing to do with all of the things that we're here honoring him about today. i thought he was one of the most interesting men i ever saw and i thought a lot of his qualities that made him great in television, he came by honestly. keep in mind, one of the most moving accounts to me in the story of his own life was dancing with his mother on her 100th birthday and at the end of their dance, he said, i thought she was exhausted. she asked me to go get her medicine. i came back with it and she said, no, walter, i wanted a martini! so that's the guy i got to know. and we continued to see each

other after i left the white house, we would be thrown together at one event and another. but i thought he was an astonishing man and i liked his inquiring mind and his caring heart. and did he something for my family that was so simple. and even now, it's hard for me to talk about. but in a very tumultuous summer in our personal lives, 1998, we were up on martha's vineyard and walter and his wife, he picked up the phone, betsy and i want you sailing with us. you, hillary and chelsea, we'll just go out sailing around. he said, somebody might take a picket of it, but so what. i'll never forget that.

at the time, i could have done with a picture with walter cronkite! i say this because that wasn't something he had to do. he was 81 years old. he was a good man. yes, he was a great journalist and he lived a fascinating life, which made him long to know and to understand and to share his knowledge and understanding. he was almost painfully honest. one of the most interesting things to me about his autobiography and some of the personal conversations we had

later about his role in trying to advance public discourse was what he thought about the limitations of television news. what he spent his whole life doing. he said, i did the best i could, but really i think people should read more newspapers. can you imagine anybody else fessing up to that? so i'm here to say thanks to his family and to his wonderful late wife, for a man who was important in all our lives, a great citizen, and a profoundly good human being. that's just the way it was. thank you. >> we will return after these brief messages. or change jobs.

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keith olbermann at the helm. a break here and tamara and alex witt take care of you on msnbc after this. i had felt fine. but turns out... my cholesterol and other risk factors... increased my chance of a heart attack. i should've done something. now, i trust my heart to lipitor. when diet and exercise are not enough, adding lipitor may help. unlike some other cholesterol lowering medications, lipitor is fda approved to reduce the risk... of heart attack, stroke, and certain kinds of heart surgeries... in patients with several common risk factors... or heart disease. lipitor has been extensively studied... with over 16 years of research. lipitor is not for everyone, including people with liver problems... and women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. you need simple blood tests to check for liver problems. tell your doctor if you are taking other medications, or if you have any muscle pain or weakness.

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