are the take -- stakes important? of course it is a big audience and the president will get a chance to lay out clearly for the american people who's involved with them. >> tick tock, five hours before what some will be the speech of his presidency. president obama will make a new, detailed argument on how he wants and plans to reform health care. >> the white house has attempted

to retool its message on health care many times. it should be clear by now that the problem isn't the sales pitch, the problem what they are selling. >> but can one speech really make a difference? we will talk live with a senator at the heart of the back and forth, republican senator olympia snowe. rain can happen to anyone. >> from hollywood to capitol hill, crihristina ricci and sexl violence. she will join us live. the 2008 campaign is over why is hillary clinton in the middle of a supreme court battle? we will look at how a decision from the court could change future presidential campaigns. and until death do us part? well, not for one south carolina man who just couldn't let go of his '73 pontiac. it's no way. the big picture starts right now. good afternoon, everybody.

good afternoon, tamron, i'm david shuster in washington. >> i'm tamron half the big picture this hour, will democrats move ahead with the health care bill without republican support? hours ahead of president obama's big speech at the joint session of congress, the chairman of the finance committee, chairman max baucus says he plans to bring a bill to the full committee next week with or without republican support. >> i very much hope and do expe expect them to be on board f there aren't any, i will move forward anyway. >> another senator speaking out today, senator orrin hatch, who was once involved in those bipartisan health care negotiations but dropped outs of the talks, wrote a letter to president obama today, calling for a bipartisan bill, quote in part, "our nation expects us to solve this challenge in an open, honest and bipartisan manner. i would urge to you take this historic opportunity to push for

a responsible and incremental health care reform plan that can gain significant support on both sides of the aisle." senator hatch goes on to say, "we have to be realistic about doing too much too fast." the white house says it still wants to work with democrats and republican tons find a bipartisan solution. >> we worked with olympia snowe, chuck grassley, mike enzi. we hope they will continue to work through this process. some people don't want to come together and solve this problem. others in that committee we think do and we think they are serious about health care reform. >> so as we move forward, david, we see the clock about 4 hours 57 minutes from the president's speech. many people are really wondering where this bipartisan support. you have some members of that gang of six who have said that they wouldn't vote for it, even if there was an agreement, grassley specifically. you wonder how does the white house move forward when you clearly have people part of the bipartisan talks saying they

wouldn't vote for it anyway? >> so tamron. we know the president will try to influence people tonight. despite mike enzi and chuck grassley pouring cold water on the democratic plans, be the white house is still out there saying, look, we are welcoming bipartisan support, we continue to talk with them and also the interviewer about to do with senator olympia snowe is going to be sign tricking, the white house has been in deep talks with her about a possible compromise on the public option. so it is a fascinating look all around. important for people to keep in mind while the president is putting touches on the health care reform there is a lot of politics and negotiations behind the scene. >> savannah guthrie is at the white house. you have been doing a lot of leg work trying to get a better idea what the president will say today. we started the morning hearing he would praise the public option idea but not put it up as an ultimatum. >> that continues tonight case. we will hear him make an

argument for the public option, express a preference for a public option but leave open that all-important negotiating room for other ideas that would accomplish the goals he is trying to accomplish, which are of course, we can all recite by rote now, choice and competition in the insurance market. we will see meat on the bones. the president talking about what he thinks the plan should be, getting specific, even as much as how to pay for it, taking a stand on some of the issues of contention, though not the most contentious of all, which is the public option. as you were talking about, in terms of tone, i am told this is going to be a longish speech. it will be workmanlike, the word used to me by one of the senior aides here that it isn't going to be full of rhetorical flourishes or that kind of thing no pounding on the take. and the president is really going to reach out and try to make the argument that this can be bipartisan health reform that some of the ideas he lays out and takes a stand on tonight are

republican ideas, frankly, or again as republican ideas and it is clear what the white house is trying to do is regain some of the independents, maybe republicans with, didn't vote for him but with him at the beginning of this administrat n administration, folks lost in the sum over debate on health care reform, the white house very much wants to have back. >> as we wait to talk to senator olympia snow, a crucial player and all, outline the white house's best case scenario involving her. is the idea she helps bridge the gap in the public option with the public option trigger that gives cover both for republicans and also for democrats who have been saying all the while the public option has to be there? >> yes, i mean, snowe is absolutely critical, particularly if the democrats hope in the senate to get 60 votes and not have to go through that reconciliation process, which would allow them to go forward with fewer vote bus it would be a very partisan view. if there is any hope of doing this the old-fashioned way without any budget tricks, olympia snowe is essential to

that she is somebody who supports something, not the public option but perhaps she would go for a trigger. she certainly, i think, would probably go for a co-op, some kind of compromise position. and so, as snowe goes, many ways probably health care reform goes. so she will be a good guest for you when she arrives. >> savannah, let me ask you about this paying for health care reform, expected to hear more from the president about how they plan to pay for it right? >> i think we will hear more details on that. look, i mean, the president laid out in the very beginning when he sent a budget up to capitol hill how he proposed to pay for health care reform, $635 billion in a reserve fund but his initial idea went nowhere, reduced the limit on charitable deductions for the wealthiest taxpayers, can't deduct as much as before. that idea went nowhere. my understanding we will be hearing something new from the president, a lot of different proposals floating around there

on capitol hill. tonight, we expect the president to come down and say this is how i think it should be paid for. >> interesting, thank you very much. nbc's savannah guthrie. thank you very much. we are now join bade republican senator olympia snowe, she has been working with the white house and her colleagues both sides of the aisle to reach a bipartisan compromise there is such great interest at the white house and now among democrats and even some of the senate over this public option trigger. explain what it is you envision with the trigger and what it is not. >> well what it is a safety net fallback plan on standby in the event there weren't health insurance plans for people in the given a area or state or region, similar to what occurred in the prescription medicare part b program. we'd fall aback never triggered because there were many choices for seniors. the same would be true in this instance in terms of afford

ability, making sure they had choices for affordable plans that is the central goal of any health insurance reform. >> what about the argument from so many democrats who say the for-profit health insurance companies have already had plenty of opportunities, whatever legislation passed, not kick in until 2013 anyway, how do you respond by saying why should the for-profit health insurance companies have more time? >> we are reforming the system, first and foremost, restructu restructuring health insurance, market both for individuals and small businesses, we are creating exchanges, injecting competition. we are also doing community ratings, banning pre-existing conditions and guaranteed issue for individuals so they can have access to health insurance and not be denied because of health status or age factors, health insurance premiums go up or agenda. all that has to be changed, phased in over time because there are so many variances

among states. the point is the system is going to be restructured based on what we know today and then we will see if the insurance industry performs. and also plans offered through state lines through co-ops or the exchange that is going to be important to also lowering rates and making a more competitive environment. >> senator snowe, i'm not sure if you heard our own savannah guthrie and her report on the white house, she said is so goes snowe, so goes the health care on the sea in, looking to be the person on 24560th vote but senator baucus saying he is willing to move forward without republican support. how does that affect what we are hearing, the negotiations in that committee and moving forward with perhaps even if it is just you in the senate being the independent voice full, for the republican party on this one? >> at this point, we are continuing our discussions. in fact, we have a meeting shortly, another one planned this morning, we will go through

the next few days before the september 15th, the chairman plans to introduce a mark. we are really working and committed towards a bipartisan agreement. whether that can materialize or not remains to be seen. i can't speak for my other colleague. i'm certainly committed to it i know they are. we have submitted proposals today on specific issues that we need to he re-evaluate, revisit or change in some fashion, so we are still working through this process very diligently and very deliberately. so, that is what we are planning to do hopefully we can reach an agreement. i think it would be good for the president, it would be good for the country if we could achieve a broader bipartisan support in the final analysis that ultimately i think could sustain any type of changes that we agree to in health care. >> senator snowe, when was the last time you did talk with president obama about some of your proposals and how did the conversation go?

what did you say? what did he say? >> oh, well, you know, i won't get into all the discussions but i did -- i talked to him last week while i was in maine and i talked to him on monday as well. and we just, you know, had a discussion on various issues. and you know, where we agreed, disagreed, what approach, you know is preferable. we talked about the public option. i was, you know, urging him if he could take the public option off the table in his speech this evening so it could provide, i think, a momentum of a different kind in moving this issue forward overall. >> did you get the sense he was in a compromising mood? >> yeah, i think he is going to be very flexible, absolutely. and i have discerned that in my previous conversations as well, that he has indicated a practicality and a pragmatism and he recognizes that those are essential to achieving an agreement. he would prefer to have a bipartisan a agreement and broad support at that. and he understands that he needs

to be flexible in some of these questions. hopefully, he will demonstrate that tonight in both his tone and his recommendations. and i would have hoped that the public option would be taken off the table because it would have to refine the debate and allay concerns of so many. >> senator, just to be clear, just to be clear, our own reporting is he is not going to take the public option off the table tonight in facts he is going to offer a defense for it does that scare you, move you away from any sort of deal with the white house? >> well, it depends on where we end up. and the point is i don't support a public option. and none of my republican colleagues do and some democrats in the senate and even in the house. i think the point is how do we bridge the divide? that is why it is one mechanism months aing to the preside s ag the white house.

there are certain realities and the public option is one of them. hopefully he will consider and indicate that he will consider alternatives to the public option so that we can move the debate forward and make progress in the overall issue. and i think that could help to galvanize, i think greater support, and perhaps open the doors for broader support for reform and moving more quickly. >> senator owe listen ya snowe, a pleasure speaking with you. thanks for joining us a few hours away from the president's big speech. many say he will be speaking directly to you and the american public. you can watch tonight at 8 p.m. eastern, complete coverage, anchored after the remarks by keith olbermann and rachel maddow. interesting that senator snowe says she does not support a public option. we know the president said, at least people say he will defend the public option but not making an ultimatum which in a sense puts him on the same side of the conversation, not an ultimatum there is a compromise there which is what senator snow says

she is seeking to hear. >> and how difficult it is for the white house and senator snowe. she said very clearly her preference would be that senator -- that president obama uses tonight's speech to eventually push aside torque jetson the public option to sort of create new momentum for compromise. obviously, she is not going to get that. >> don't make an ultimatum, don't you leave the door for it to be negotiated, he is not drawing the line in the sand saying as we heard from the speaker of the house, must include public option or maxine waters if you stay is not an ultimatum, that means you are willing to be flexible, as savannah guthrie called it, wiggle room today. i don't know. >> the challenge to be flexible for olympia snow, progressive democrats to make sure none go away from the speech tonight infuriated, sometimes easier said than done. >> i guarantee you we leave the speech with some people saying they are still confused. what do you think? >> tamron, coming up, a school district that refused to let students watch president obama's speech yesterday to them, but

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breaking news from mexico city. officials are confirming that an aeromexico passenger plane has been hijacked. it was apparently flying from cancun and directed to mexico city. officials say that the plane is safely on the tarmac at mexico city and that the hijackers are threatening to blow up the plane unless they can have a conversation with president felipe calle der rolen, the

president of mexico. it is a developing situation. we will keep you posted. and at the supreme court, "hillary" the movie. >> she doesn't have any of those things. she does not answer questions straight out. >> i did not say that it should be done. >> you said -- you said yes, you thought it made sense to do it. >> no, i didn't, chris, but the point is what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrant? >> unless i said something, senator clinton said two different thing in the course of two minutes. >> the justices talking about the film that attacked clinton during the 2008 campaign. the case involved originally whether the 90 minutes should be regulated as a campaign ad but it took on greater significance when the justices decided to look at the film and end

long-standing limits on corporate and union spending with political campaigns. more on today's arguments, pete williams joins us from the supreme court. explain to our audience the distinction made, called this a movie, looking at it could be a documented or political ads. >> that was the question when the case was first argued. the backers of the movie stayed this isn't a campaign ad, shouldn't be limited. the federal government said the ad couldn't be run on cable television because it was financed in part by corporate contributions and long-standing federal laws block corporations and unions from buying campaign ads. the question was this an ad or not? now a different issue. yet is are those laws that ban corporate and union contributions from their own money, are those laws unconstitutional in? today it appeared a majority of the supreme court appeared to say yes. if the court does rule that way it would strike down decades of

laws that would block corporations and unions from using their own money to buy campaign ads and have a whole new mix of money and politics, tamron. >> thank you very much. sorry for the short conversation here, we are following breaking news. send it back to washington, d.c., david. david? >> do now have video apparently,ed aapparently, the aeromexico plane, getting pictures on the tarmac in mexico city, an aeromexico aircraft hijacked. mexican officials confirm this is a is -- flight that left cancun, a boeing 737 a capability of 140 passengers we have not confirm it had is a boeing 737, just a passenger jet and it is among the aircraft that aeromexico has in its fleet. officials confirming there is a plane. we believe now that this is the

aircraft on the tarmac in mexico city. the passengers are on board, high jackers still there making demands to talk with the mexican president calderon and there are reports that the hijackers threatened to blow up the aircraft if the demands are not met. we keep showing you aerial google map and whatnot of the tarmac to give you a sense of where in mexico city the international airport is. this would be the first hijacking of an aeromexico flight in a long time. of course, a lot of violence on the border, but no indications which group is taking responsibility no indications beyond this conversation with the mexican president what ex-a actually they are demanding. it is a sway that developed and we are on it. the transport minister juan

molin a ar. this is video from the airport, where it the plane landed safely. we are not told of the their safety or the passengers on there you mentioned, david, according to the reports, three websites are saying that the men seized control of the men and threatened to blow it up unless they were allowed to speak with the president. and also, got this in, david, mexican security forces arrived at the mexico city airport and they are there on the scene. we don't see a lot of activity, at least, you know that kind of activity where you see maybe them surrounding or moving in place but again, this is just the vantage point that we are able to see right now. we are working to get more details on what exactly is happening. this is a strange shot to be showing you because we can't see perspective-wise what is happening. for those of you joining us, just started reporting that an aeromexico passenger plane was hijacked at the airport and the resort of cancun and was flown to mexico city international airport. we don't know how many people

are on board but according to the information you see there, 104 passengers would be able to board that plane, the number of passengers that could be on there, not got an confirmation number. interesting that it would be a plane coming from cancun. as you well know, david, is a popular travel destination, especially over the summer. a lot of people are back in school, end of their summer vacation, i'm curious how many people would be on the plane or the activity around it at this time. it wouldn't be peak season, per se. >> it increases the chances, tamron, you rightly point out there are tourists or americans who might have been on board this flight. we should point out, tamron, for the viewers, the reason you see the strange logo on the screen, this is known as an agency feed. nbc does not have control over this camera, the logo put up, we are getting it from our affiliate partners in mexico this is their logo that they are putting up as well as the spanish hace unos momentos.

tamron, do you know spanish? >> i am looking at just a couple of -- for historical perspective, aeromexico, i don't know when the last hijacking attempt was, looking 1988, unarmed man arrested when he attempted to hijack a jet liner to texas, he was foiled at a refueling stop in monterey, mexico, where i lived for a very short period of time, monterey, mexico, and that happened in 1988, david. now we have got this report in, telemundo, one of the producers over there saying three bolivians with apparent explosives are the people asking to talk to president calderon, felipe calderon, flight number is 576, david. >> that does move the ball forward a little bit. also joining us now, tamron, is an nbc news producer who is fluent in spanish who can

qualify exactly what it is we are seeing on the screen. maria what are you picking up from the mexican broadcast as far as the information they are give? >> honestly, i'm just trying to listen to it now, as soon as i listen to a little more, i can tell you more details about what they are saying. all i know i am seeing a picture at this point, i need to listen to the reports, once i do that i can tell you what is going on. >> okay. we will let you do that. we will continue to collect more information. maria, ask you something in real-time, translate whatever you can picking up. >> problem with communications right now, with the reporter on site, so they are trying to get more details. there are other -- trying to bring in another report here hopefully will bring in more information that is happening since the reporter on-site has lost communication with them who

is giving them more details. it was 40 minutes ago that a report came in that there was a problem with a flight that was coming in to the -- mexico city. three people, one of them bolivian origin, has asked to -- has asked to speak with the president of mexico. there are reports that there are bombs inside the airplane. there seems to be a package that one of them is carrying the reports say it is not confirmed. until now, from moment to the other, they are trying to get a list of the passengers or the number of the passengers that are there.

they don't know what the motivation is for the attack yet. like i said, they are saying obviously there was only -- i repeat there was only one that they say was bolivian, the other two, they don't know know what the identification of the people are. and there is a threat but they don't know the motivation of it. the mexican authorities -- are negotiating. they are mobilizing -- they are mobilizing to the airport to -- you know, they are already negotiating but they are also bringing more people to the airport to try to negotiate and mobilize. i think now the reporter that they were trying to get in touch with is on with the anchor and he is talking to them. >> we are going to let you listen in to their coverage. we know it is very difficult.

real-time translation there, david. meantime what we are getting in again, for those of you who are just joining us, watching breaking news out of mexico city where an aeromexico passenger plane has been hijacked, according to local reports there, three bolivian men have demanded to speak with the president, felipe calderon, they have not, at least in these reports, indicated why or what they are seeking. the men had not been able to get inside the plane's cockpit but also, david, we were wondering if the plane had actually 104 passengers on board or if that was the capacity. we are being told now at least 104 passengers on board the plane. watching the activity of helicopters on the ground, saw what looked like military personnel racing in and around this area. i'm not sure, david, at this point if this is the actual plane, as you can see moving, but seems like they have not

shut off air traffic because we just saw a plane behind the helicopter take off. so we are not sure if planes are being allowed in and out of the airport. the aircraft that has been hijacks, we are told safely landed. it is there as are the negotiations with these hijackers. also working, david, to try to work up aeromexico and any hijacking attempts lately or the history regarding this airline and its safety and its history with hijackers, so we are keeping an eye on this right now for you, david. i'm not sure what else -- go ahead. >> we should point out to our viewers, looks like military vehicle there is, and we don't know -- that looks like a response to in trying to put forces, security forces in prison. every indication at least they have put this over to one side of the and they are either moving aircraft and possibly helicopters around essentially make space for the security forces if that is what they are

doing or may just be, tamron, the live picture we are looking at is just capturing all the activity at a typical international airport, which includes helicopters, landing and taking off. we see the jeeps moving. as you point out, mexican television is reporting that the flight did have at least 104 passengers on board, and every indication based on the reporting that negotiations or discussions are under way. >> david, we are just getting word from maria listening in to the news coverage there, she is translating from spanish to english for us, according to the reporting, they are the -- the authorities are working to "liberate the hostages." i'm not sure if that means an aggressive attempt to liberate them, or this is just about communications and verbally trying to negotiate, but the wording used -- okay, now we are getting in, david, reporters on the scene say the passengers have been freed. the estimates are 104 people

were on board that plane from cancun. it was flown to mexico international airport and now we are getting word that the passengers have been released and that would leave the three bolivian hijackers, at least according to the reports, still on that aircraft and their demands, at least, were to speak with president calderon. >> again, just report that the passengers have been freed. that is not an inspect news report, a report from a mexican broadcaster but we are putting it up there because, again, information is coming in and sort of not even in real-time, wither in a bit of a delay, as you can imagine, but at least some indications now, best way to put it indications that at least the situation may be going well, at least for the passen r passengers with this report that 104 passengers have been freed. working to confirm that tamron, still pointing out, don't have any information whether there were americans on board, all we know there was a play that went

from cancun, took off from cancun or diverted to mexico city or hijacked en route to mexico city. but again, we are trying to get more information about these reports that the passengers have been freed and what has happened to the fate of the hijackers, where they are still on board or what's going on. >> yeah, david. and it is very interesting, because a couple of shots have shown aircraft seemingly taking off in the midst of this, which is interesting. there it is. you see aly if the there aircraft taking off there. one would think that they would shut down the airport this instance. i don't know if that is san indication they feel is under control or an aircraft hijacked moved through a separate part of the airport, but obviously, i mean, we have seen any kind of a threat would shut down an airport, especially an international airport and i must also bring up the fact that we are just a few days from the anniversary of 9/11, so you would imagine that they are ofs would be rattled anywhere in the world when you talk about hijacking of an aircraft with

individuals on board. so it's curious to me that they have allowed planes to still take off. you see someone closing a gate and some military personnel, a lot of busy activity, but to say what clearly is happening, we simply cannot accurately report that other than according to a reporter on the scene, 104 passengers that we believe are on that aircraft have been freed. >> tamron, to back up that, producers now telling us that we can report that the passengers, not only were they let off of the aircraft but they were allowed to take their luggage and they boarded a bus, presumably have been driven back to a terminal. so, at least the passengers, this is turning out well. again, there is still some conflicting information and a lack of information, frankly, as far as the status of the hijackers and what was done with them, whether this was a military operation or whether just out of the graciousness of their hearts they simply let the passengers go. but any case, it does appear

that the situation is not quite as dangerous as it seems certainly 10 or 15 minutes ago. >> and we are obviously not for -- i have flown into this airport but neither of us are familiar logistically what we are looking at, we have just seen a lot of activity. it is not clear where that aircraft is, as you point out, david. we have not even seen buses really from this vantage point, but according to the report here, as you mentioned, the passengers were allowed to leave that aircraft and able to get on a bus to safety there but from this vantage point it is very difficult to see what really is going on with this situation. >> and tamron, i wonder if we can get maria, i know she has been listening to the mexican news reports. if she can tell us what she has picked up in the last five or six minutes or even if we can figure out what it is that our affiliate there is showing us because, again it is not clear

this is anything but a tarmac with cars driving in the distance. >> planes still take off in the middle of this reported hijacking. but we did say the flight originated in cancun and as david pointed out, not sure if that's -- if mexico city was a die ver organization stop there i have flown from cancun and changed over flights at mexico city going on to texas, so it would not be unusual, obviously, for this flight to be scheduled cancun to mexico city so people could take other flights here. to be honest with our audience, quite clearly, with he don't know what vantage point of the airport we are looking at. maria is back and has information from us. what have you learned? >> we have learned the reporter on site is talking to his anchors and saying that all -- he thinks most of the passengers, does not have confirmation all that of the passengers have been transported but transported to terminal two, the central office there where you know, obviously administration offices are located. so he is saying he saw the

passengers go down the stairs with their suitcases like hankering -- their luggage what you take when you go to the plane, put in the -- you know the comp part.s, slowly going down the stairs of the plane and get nothing bus and being transported to that building. so, it seems, he is saying, for now, most of the passengers have gotten into the bus and transported to safety. the crew has stayed behind, pilot looking out the window and also reporting that he thinks the hijackers are also still in the plane. he is not able to confirm all 1904 passengers have been transported to safety but at least saying most of them v the other thing that he is reporting as well is that still don't know exactly who these hijackers are and that, obviously, the entire

airport has immobilized and has been -- still -- i mean, been stopped of all other activity. that's all i can tell you now. >> maria, i wonder if you can clear for us described in the mexican broadcast what the pictures are showing, described one of the planes, for example that plane being the one or is that something else farther away? have they been able to identify exactly what it is they are showing us? >> they have not, mainly because the reporter seems not to be in the same location as the pictures being shoechbl that is what i could gather. also his phone -- he seems to be an area his phone keeps breaking up and even the reporters on the broadcast are having ard hard time listening to what they have to say, to so they have not been able to confirm that that is the flight but he has said that if -- obviously, all the mexican army, every helicopters, they are all on site, emergency vehicles are on site as well as around that particular plane. so, if we are seeing that,

seeing emergency vehicles around that plane, we can safely assume that that is the plane that obviously is where the host alps are. i don't think reporter is on the same site we are seeing the pictures. >> at the tail, david, of the plane, an unusual shot to offer up, but you see before we changed the shot, could you see there were personnel around, we also saw while maria was reporting what she was hearing saw what appeared to be a number of people dressed in all black, confirm those were not passengers dressed the same. >> mexican army on site trying to help in case something -- obviously, the hijackers are still on the plane and there are -- crew supposedly is still inside and in danger. the shot we just saw, maria and tamron, looked like one of the pilots leaning out the window what is remarkable, doesn't look like people on the ground are that greatly concerned for their own safety, otherwise they --

somebody had a gun or whatnot, presume they wouldn't be walking up to the area. >> maria, want you to listen in, find out, looks like the pilot here and ground crew members talking to the pilot we don't know if -- we can't speculate. >> he can't speculate, but we know from flying a plane that there are doors that lock the pilots from the main cabin, very likely the pilot might be in contact possibly with -- is trying to talk to the emergency people and obviously is not in contact with the hijackers who might not be main cabin. not able to bridge the cockpit door. >> if the rest of the crew is to on there most pie lights, any pilot would be concerned with the safe hive crew with don't know if he is in contact with the crew listen to hijackers, telling people on the ground what is happening. see the personnel, look at that the shot we were talking about

believe it might be members of the mexican army or authority there is gathered near the eight aircraft. david, i understand you have more information, too? >> douglas laird, an aviation security expert, kind enough to join us and looking at the picture we are looking at. david what, do you make in terms of scene unfolding, mexican security forces on the grass, see the plane act least think it is the plane, the pilot leaning out the window, people nonchalantly seeming to talk to them. what do you make of this? >> the issue and the important thing is you have the plane safely on the ground, you certainly don't want to have things going on while you are airborne. hopefully they can get the situation under control and do what's appropriate. >> certain security precautions, the fact they are letting ground crews get near this particular aircraft and nonchalantly it seems talk to the pilot leaning

out the window, seem to suggest they are not that concerned about the plane being blown up right now, right? >> you know, i haven't heard what the highjackers stated, if they are talking with the pilot, seems things are under control, can turn bad in a very short period of time. seems things are going well at this point in time. >> anything we should know about the 737 in terms of security perspective if security forces were to try to get on the aircraft and challenge the hijackers, how much space do they have, anything if the configuration makes it easy or difficult? >> in my opinion that would be the last resort. what you want to do is talk your way through it and hopefully let them -- most or all of the passengers off the plane. you're very -- you're dealing in such title quarters, as you well

understand, wouldn't want to go aboard plane and have a shooting unless you absolutely have to. >> tamron, any questions for doug? >> no david, but we do have -- thank you, doug. sandra lily, we are waiting to on her to get in place, one of the nbc news producers. doug, if you are still around, i can ask you, one report of the reports out there from el universal, the hijackers may have explosives actually taped to their bodies and when we think about all of the security that an individual has to go through, including in mexico and in cancun, i don't want to speculate too much, a report this is possible, many reasons we have great concern, how would they be able to get that through the security? >> many times, hijackers in the past have made similar threats and as they have not had explosives on their person. the underlying issue, what is

the security at the airport where the folks boarded the plane? this will sort out over time but the other issue is that the -- where the hijackers boarded the aircraft isn't necessarily the location where the guns or explosives or whatever were put aboard the aircraft that could have been done any place and been secreted aboard the aircraft. all this will be determined during the followingup investigation, i would hope. >> by the way for viewers just joining us if you just tuned in in the last couple of minutes, talking with douglas laird, aviation security expert about this developing situation in mexico city, aeromexico 737 aircraft, that one that you are seeing, was hijacked some time after takeoff from cancun. it landed safely at the mexico city airport. as you can see, on the tarmac, passengers, reports at a least most of the passengers let go and boarded buses. still an indication the crew is still on board a few minutes ago, saw the pilot -- in fact,

see the pilot again leaning out the window and reports that the hijackers, who may be keeping more passengers that is not clear, reports that they at least had eggs plosives strapped to their bodies. the situation continues to develop. >> as doug pointed out, the hijacker does have been a threat or claimed to have explosives, his knowledge and expertise in this, many time these do not. again, a threat is enough, obviously irk don't have to prove anything in a situation like, this so the sandra lily, david, we have got her, an nbc producer and also listening into the coverage of this on spanish language television. sandra what can you tell us? >> i was listening to a passenger, her name adriana romero, she said it was interesting, a very pleasant flight from cancun to mexico city and had actually no idea that there was a hijacking. there was a well-dressed man who

kept on standing up and she made a comment, add nice watch, nice shirt and she did notice he kept on getting up, going to the overhead compartment and looking at stuff in a suitcase but she said they never thought there was a problem until they landed and they saw the mexican federal authorities, trucks, that is when they realized something was going on. the good news for those passengers they can never seemed to know that anything was happening. >> did they indicate if all of the passengers were off the aircraft? we heard that they had been released but then a question of just whether some of the passengers had been allowed to get off that aircraft? >> when i was listening to this i did not hear ms. aribe talk about that. >> indications of the witnesses on the plane, it was usual -- >> relaxed did not think it was a question, in fact, she even said that she had heard later that there might have been two people, somebody maybe in first class, someone, you know, coach,

but she says she only saw the person she saw in coach and not anything else. >> was she -- obviously, she is off the plane now? >> off the plane and did not even seem nervous while she was speaking. >> wow. and any indications of what they are try dog, because we have been watching the video of the pilot talking, as david said, seemingly calm circumstances here considering to this number of crew members who started out as three individuals and see half a dozen or more there now. do we know what's happening? >> i heard the woman and the only other thing that i heard briefly was that because they never got to the pilot, because it was sealed, i think everything was sort of kept out and that's also what contributed to no one on the airplane seeing anything that just seemed out of the ordinary. >> sandra i wonder it if you can clarify, heard one passenger describe one very well-dressed man who kept reach nothing the overhead compartment. did she say if there were others or just the one that she noticed? >> she, herself, said that she only saw that one gentleman and

that later, she heard reports that there might have been -- that there might have been two people, someone on first, someone on coach, but again, she said what she only saw it one well-dressed gentleman who seemed ton getting up a lot. in fact she made it sound like he was almost on his feet the whole flight and the anchor said, are you saying this man was standing during the whole play, and she said he wasn't standing the whole flight but seemed to be getting up and down from his seat. >> interesting. >> tamron, such a biz. >> scene, great concern that these people have explosives and they still may be a danger to themselves or the aircraft, seems awfully strange people would than close to the front of the aircraft and talked to the pilot and not moving away. >> right. the area wouldn't be sealed off. from our vantage point, these individuals appear to be the normal airport staff, you know? these aren't guys who -- i will

just use the example of a s.w.a.t. attire. we have seen those individuals standing a little bit further bill these people appear with the little jackets, reflective jackets like they would be standard airline or airport employees, that's what they appear. we don't know. >> tamron, just to make some sense of the pictures we are seeing, we see, of course, from that vantage point, off the right-wing, side view you a minute ago, showing or getting a picture that looked to be a distance away that shows from the front there so you can see at least there is activity under the front nose cone and then also off to the left wing simultaneously, gives better peck perspective but indicate there is are crews or people not that concerned who simply are right up next to the men and continue to talk to the pilot. again, as we have heard, hijackers were apparently not able to penetrate into the cockpit. at least there is some conversations going on between the men on the ground, pie all right and crew. the key question is did all the

passengers get off this boeing 737, and if not, how many are still on pardon and what are the demands to or what's being done as far as trying to keep the situation calm and make sure that the hijackers don't do anything soup which had? one of the things they had requested was this conversation with mexican president felipeha. by every indication this continues in some fashion. >> they are continuing to interview passengers who were on the plane. they got off calmly. how would the hijackers indicate to the pilot that the plane was being hijacked? i mean, did they pull one of the flight attendants to the side and say let these people off, you stay in you know this is a hijacking? how did they get the information to the pilot. i apologize to our audience. we are forced to ask these

questions out loud is that this is an unusual breaking news story. you hear the pilots hanging out of the window of the cockpit talking to the ground grew. the reports as we've received them, three bolivian hijackers are still on that aircraft but the cockpit door has not been breached. the crew members, we don't know how many of them are on there, but there are said to be crew members still onboard. the passengers have been let go and at least one passenger has indicated she had no idea anything was wrong, that this was business as usual. >> let's get reaction from douglas laird, an aviation expert. we are perplexed. the idea the pilot would need to lean out the window to have communication with people outside the aircraft seems strange, doesn't it? >> there are several ways. he could go over a common ground frequency and talk to the

station personnel or leans out the window. what amazes me is there doesn't seem to be any real control over the scene. there are too many people too close. >> what do you make of the eyewitness account of a well-dressed man that was reaching into the compartment over his head and may have been somebody in first class. do you read anything into that? >> it is difficult without more information. the more people you have involved the more chance they could be caught going through security. i would rather try something with one or two than three or four. again, you just don't know. there is too much unknown. again, amazing, is all the people walking around. >> generally speaking how secure or not is a place like cancun?

americans go there all the time. we assume there are safety precautions to make sure nobody can get on to an aircraft with explosives. we don't know that to be the case except for the threat they had explosives. is there something about cancun and security there that might contribute to something like that? >> i'm not that familiar with cancun. >> david, we are seeing activity. the military personnel or we think this is the mexican army are going in now. some of them were -- appeared, david, to be going up some stairs. you see them at the front of the plane now. just rushing in while the crew members that we were watching earlier still stood there at the front of the plane. the rear, you saw these heavily armed personnel, military personnel swarming. now you see on the ground what looks like one, two, three, four

individuals. they are -- they have their guns pointed at them. one guy is just sitting there. i'm not sure, david, what this is playing out. we certainly saw what we believe are the mexican army, members of the mexican army swarming this aircraft. >> you could imagine how confusing it would be for mexican security forces to separate out possibly hijackers from passengers. they make them sit down and keep an eye on all of them. >> there were only three hijackers. all of the passengers were reportedly let off. these numbers don't match. are these still passengers who were on this plane? that would be the logical conclusion that that many people would be removed from the plane. this would have to be the remaining passengers on that aircraft unless otherwise. >> we should clarify again, we

have every indication this is a live feed. this is not a tape playback. this is happening in relatively real time. >> so we are now -- i'm sorry. douglas, you're still with us. again, we are doing our very best to report what we see sheer and we've got our team members, our producers listening to the live coverage and translating from spanish to english. what is your reaction to what we just saw play out here? >> i think it is very good. it appears they have most of the passengers, if not all of the passengers, off the aircraft. i'm almost afraid to say it, but it looks like nothing has happened. i assume the hijacker, the person with the alleged explosives is hopefully not in that group of people they are walking away from that aircraft.

>> obviously, there were remaining passengers still on the aircraft. we are also watching some video here and you see at the top that it is en vivo, it is live. more passengers coming off the aircraft. one has to wonder if the report was accurate that any passengers were let off. >> maybe some were let off or maybe the reporter picked up they were going to try to get passengers off. live pictures, we are seeing passengers getting off the aircraft. again, douglas, as we see the passengers get off, it has to be confusing for the mexican security forces because they need to make sure the hijackers are not blending in with the passengers, right? >> that is a key concern. what i'm watching appears to be rather chaotic. anything, just about anything can happen here. it is interesting, too, that i

see they are also allowing the passengers to get off with the carry on, which i find interesting. these passengers are getting directly on a bus. they are not being searched. >> there is a laundry list of things that are curious and strange about this story. you have one passenger who gave an interview saying she got off the plane and had no idea that there was even a hijacking, it was business as usual when she got off the plane. curious that she wouldn't notice the dozens of other people still on the aircraft. not leaving. >> it looks like that one fellow in the yellow shirt is handcuffed. >> to clarify, for our viewers again, the picture goes from tape to live. this is tape from earlier. this is not a live picture. when it goes to the other shot it is live. to keep our viewers clear as to what we are looking at.

and this is live now, the en vivo at the top of the screen indicates that. as douglas pointed out there may be at least one person in handcuffs. you see a lot of activity. it looks like there are television crews that close. this one individual hands behind his back being escorted by military personnel or security personnel. >> it looks like three. a man in the yellow, a second and a third. >> absolutely, david, there is more than one, two others behind the tall gentleman in the yellow shirt. >> we are joined by ambrosia hernandez. from telemundo 51. what are you picking up about the situation now? >> as you know, there's a mexican community h a