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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  September 10, 2009 6:00am-9:00am EDT

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>> we did not come here just to clean up crisis. we came here to build a future. so tonight i return to speak to all of you about an issue that is central to that future and
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that's the issue of health care. i'm not the first president to take up this cause, but i am determined to be the last. [ applause ] >> welcome to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of new york city. a sailors warning. i guess republicans are sounding a warning bell over last night's speech. >> it was quite a speech. what do you think? >> separating the politics from what i really think on the issue, i thought the speech was a home run for him. i think the mistake he's made all along is he's had this bipartisanship and so you catch yourself in this dead man's land. you really won't do a bill that a chunk of republicans can vote for then you need to do what most politicians do. you either go bipartisan or you
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go to your banks. he's been in the middle ground. last night he went to his base and told republicans come on board if you want to but if you don't, we'll roll all over you. we're going to make change. that delights his base. it angers the republicans but at least politically he's not in this dead man's land anymore. we don't have to have stupid debates about whether he's been bipartisan or not because it doesn't matter. what matters is does he have the votes. last night on this issue he decided to show how partisan he was and he went left. he mowed down the republicans. again, i say this, i know republicans won't understand this but just politically i sat there thinking this is a smart political move. >> it did. certainly it got a lot of reaction he wanted except for one person. there was one heckler. we'll be talking to -- >> joe wilson from south carolina. >> you don't do that. >> i can say as a journalist
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it's great to come someone a dumb ass before you know it's a friend of yours. i heard it last night. i said that was a dumb ass. the interesting thing abouto is he's a quiet soft-spoken guy. >> really? >> that's out of character. >> we'll get reaction from the speech. senator claire mcaskle will join us and we'll show more of the president's speech and numbers coming out from the census bureau about the exact number of uninsured americans out there. >> we'll talk about whether the president was telling the truth about the illegal immigrants being insured or not because that is an issue that goes into that numbers. if he's telling the truth, he
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can't talk about 47 million americans uninsured. >> it's time for this morning's top stories. president obama is laying out his plan to overhaul the nation's health care system. it is a $900 billion proposal over the next decade and speaking to a joint session of congress last night, the president addressed not only policy, but also public perception. >> to my progressive friends i would remind that you for decades the driving idea behind reform is to end abuse and make coverage available for those without it. the public option is only a means to that end. we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal. and to my republican friends, i say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may
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have. >> following his shocking outburst, south carolina representative joe wilson is apologizing for heckling the president during his address. the republican shouted "you lie" as the president discussed what the white house called myths surrounding his proposal. >> there are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. this, too is false. the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are hear il leely. "you lie." >> not true. >> unprecedented? >> i can't remember anybody shouting something out like that as far as lie. i with will tell you that i was -- they do it every week in great britain. i can tell you that while bush
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was president i would be disgusted and go back and just sit there and democrats would hiss throughout person parts of the speech. i was shocked by that. i really was. i thought it was unbelievably disrespectful and i thought last night was disrespectful and i'm glad joe is apologizing. >> he's embarrassed. a lot of people his district by doing it and he hurt the cause. there are people in the base that will love him for doing that. he has 5% of america glad he did that. it's the middle where you win or lose this battle and he hurt the republican cause last night and he understanding it. >> that's what the president was talking about. getting caught up in this sort of name calling and shouting as opposed to a real conversation. the guy undermine his own effort offering his apology shortly afterwards, representative wilson spoke to white house chief of staff rahm emanuel and put out this statement.
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>> i don't know that i would go to rahm emanuel with an apology like that considering some of the things that rahm emanuel has said about generals like david petraeus, let's not go back and google those. >> house leaders will now decide whether representative wilson should face punishment for the outburst. >> whatever. seriously? you know what, if you're going to punish him, we're going to take down -- i'm going to submit names to you of all of the democrats i saw hissing while the last president of the united states was trying to address the nation. let's play that stupid game. is this all they have? seriously, is this all they have? maybe they don't want to debate the fact saying 47 million americans are uninsured and that includes illegal immigrants.
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maybe they don't want to debate that fact. maybe -- don't be stupid. he's hurt himself. he's hurt his party. he's hurt his cause. don't hurt yours. don't be dumb. >> we'll talk to majority leader steny hoyer about the speech and the eruption. >> at the end of each newscast you're looking for the camera saying that's the way it is, you dumb ass. >> knono. that's the way it is. don't be a dumb ass. >> i don't think you should say that word, speaking of dumb, a creature is under arrest this morning after trying to hijack a plane from cancun as it landed in mexico city.
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police say the 44 year old claimed to have a bomb holding 103 passengers and crew hostage for more than an hour. fortunately everyone was rele e releasreleas released unharmed. apple ceo steve jobs signaling -- it's a hijacking. what an idiot. sorry. >> don't call steve jobs an idiot. >> no. i like steve jobs. this is the first public appearance in nearly a year. the 54-year-old cancer survivor is recovering from a liver transplant that sidelined him in january. here's steve jobs. >> so, i'm vertical. i'm back at apple. loving every day of it. i'm getting to work with our incredibly talented teams to come up with some great new products. >> the space telescope is back up to speed offering spectacular new images of the universe. last spring scientist had doubts the ageing observatory would
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even survive but thanks to a billion dollar repair mission it's revealing crystal clear pictures of stars light years away and there are new stories being offered in memory of the legendary newsman walter cronkite who died in july at the age of 92. speaking at a new york memorial service on wednesday, former president clinton reflect on his relationship with the most trusted man in america. >> in a difficult summer in our personal lives, 1998, we were up on martha's vineyard and walter picked up the phone and said betsy and i want you to go sailing with us. he said somebody might take a picture of it but so what. i'll never forget that. at a time i could have done with a picture with walter cronkite.
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>> now we can laugh. >> i'm not actually. >> we all have our tributes. >> it was 11 years ago. isn't there a statute of limitations? you and david letterman keep poking at him. let the man live. i tried to impeach him but it was '99. i'm like joe wilson. i get excited. let it go. >> let's get a quick check on the weather. >> nobody is perfect. >> with bill karins. >> did you feel it in the air? fall has arrived. a cool morning. the wind is up. a rough day at the coast. winds are gusting 30 to 40 miles per hour. rip currents are very high in the mid-atlantic seaboard and you need your umbrella from virginia beach northward up to
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about philadelphia. we're going to continue with a chance of rain today bring the umbrella with you from philly, washington, d.c., delaware, maryland, your dry today new york city northward. that will change on friday. stormy weather down in orlando, miami, new orleans and thankfully we're getting rain in san antonio and austin. the horrible drought has continued all summer long. we definitely need it. anyone traveling out west, no problems whatsoever. nice warm weather out west. back to you. >> you know, we're going to be going out west. we'll talk to crazy lawrence o'donnell on the speech and lawrence has had some of the most keen insights. also, we'll be going across capitol hill talking to the key players all morning whether you talk about steny boyer or eric cantor. this will be a packed morning. we're going to hear everyone's response. i think last night was the most important speech for the president since the inauguration. i think he scored well. the question is have americans
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tuned him out on this issue yet? >> great question. >> no. >> you don't think they have. you think he convicted last night? >> yes. >> also, house majority leader steny hoyer and eric cantor and david gregory and andrew russert is coming back. what a good boy. >> he went to summer school. he's taking the fall semester off and he's working. >> plus a review of politco's top stories. >> i know that many in this country are skeptical that government is looking out for them. i understand that the politically safe move would be to kick the can further down the road. to defer reform one more year or
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governor schwarzenegger offering a $100,000 reward for information on whoever is responsible for the wildfires. yeah. arnold is offering $100,000 reward for whoever is responsible for "jingle all the way." he wants names. >> stop it, conan. that was a fine holiday film. mike allen has a look at the
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morning playbook. hey, mike. >> i'll try not to have outburst while you're talking. >> you lie, mike allen. we've been analyzing the speech a little bit. what happened last night. let's talk about where we go from here. what does the white house do off that speech now to get health care done? >> they see this as a second lease on life and they'll take it. they see it as a political campaign. last night the president's former campaign manager who has a book coming out on the anniversary of the election coming up in november had a big conference call with volunteers throughout the country. he said if health care doesn't get done this year, it will be a decade or a generation before they have another chance. so the idea is to instill urgency. you'll see the president if he looked like he was in campaign mode on monday in cincinnati, wait until you see him saturday in minneapolis. they're going to have a big rally there. no tickets. it's come one, come all. >> mike, talk a little bit about who the president was speaking to last night.
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who are these people that the white house is really going after now that they need to swing over to their side to get something done before the end of the year? >> well, one of the big messages was to liberals and progessifrp and it seemed to work. he told them you won't get a public option. all of the things that he should make them think that it was important to them but he reminded them it's a means to an end which means you ain't getting it. >> let's talk about also in the speech there was a word used by the president. mike barnicle was not schooled formally. he was raised by wood people. there's a word in there and you explain to mike what it means. >> this is also true when it comes to medicare and medicaid. in fact, i want to speak directly to seniors for a moment because medicare is another issue that's been subjected to
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dem demogogurry. >> mike wasn't the only one confused. it was the top search on google for a time quickly replaced by joe wilson. that's when you try to seize power through appeals to emotion rather than reason. >> any questions? >> not about that. >> thanks so much. >> have a good day. >> mika? >> okay. "you lie" and -- >> he'll get past it. he has a long record. >> it's all relative.
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>> he made a mistake. >> you have to balance these things like the southern california state lawmaker who resigned amid outrage over a videotape. bragging about his sexual escapades on it. he describes in graphic detail. are you going to say it's 11 years ago, too? >> i'm still not going to carry a cross 11 years from now. >> this is obviously a very sad day in this house. >> reporter: just hours after sitting on the assembly floor, mike duval resigned. >> i spoke with mr. duval this morning. got a better appreciation of just the profound sense of regret he has experienced and
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continues to experience with regard to his inappropriate comments. >> reporter: comments duval made during a break in july. the microphone was hot catching duval talking about a woman believed to be a lobbyists. duval is married with two grown children. duval also mentions cheating on this lobbyist with another woman. despite his resignation, the assembly leadership immediately launched an ethics investigation. >> on a personal level i think the comments were clearly inappropriate. >> duval was vice chair and the lobbyist apparently works for an
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energy company. sempra says they're investigating the matter and the media reports that named one of our employees. the employee denied the speculative media reports. a government watchdog group says there needs to be aggressive lobbyist oversight. >> the way the conversation came up in this locker room style conversation with another member right before a committee hearing suggests that it isn't really that unusual of an event. >> duval avoided camera today while his staffers quietly left their office. >> that's just horrible. >> wow. >> aren't people looking for transparency in government. they get it in the california state assembly. >> open mike. >> hello. hello. >> what is eye patch underwear. do you mind me asking? >> i have no idea. >> we both know spanking. >> google. >> still ahead, you know what, i
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don't want to hear about your personal life, you two. >> i'm beginning to feel uncomfortable like perhaps, well -- >> "time" put a question mark on their cover. >> "morning joe" has a look at the new cover of "time" magazine. and when we come back, a look at papers from around the country. you're watching "morning joe." [ engine revving ] [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer
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>> if you misrepresent what's in this plan, we'll call you out. [ applause ] i will not accept the status quo as a solution. not this time. not now. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." just before 6:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. president obama is calling on congress to act on his plan for a health care overhaul. the president says the best way to improve coverage is through a public option. he suggested democrats should be willing to compromise. storms in florida may threaten tonight's scheduled lath landing of the space shuttle "discovery" and the crew of seven. if the shuttle can't return tonight, nasa will consider a landing in california but not until friday at the earliest. in a newly obtained audio
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recording, bernie madoff is heard coaching a witness on how to fool lawyers from the s.e.c. madoff says "you don't have to be too brilliant with these guys." the s.e.c. apologized for failing to uncover the fraud which cost investors billions of dollars. >> and when they're close to catching him, they'll say what's that behind you? >> let's look at the morning papers now. >> let's do that. the president's speech is the top story on just about every major newspaper this morning. "the new york times" obama armed with details challenges congress and also in "the new york times" u.s. says iran can expedite a nuclear bomb. >> "the washington post" bomb implores congress to act. "the washington times" stops short of mandating public
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option. >> obama presses need to reform health care in the atlanta journal constitution. >> "wall street journal" now president makes his pitch and caption on the last, pittsburgh steelers and tennessee titans open the nfl season tonight. that's on nbc. >> at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> coming up next, we've got political analyst lawrence o'donnell. and also we've got mika's must read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by star bucs. does your mouthwash work in six different ways?
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some people's concerns have come from bogus claims spread by those whose agenda is to kill reform at any cost. the best example is the claim made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. such charge would be laughable if it wasn't so cynical and irresponsible. it's a lie plain and simple. >> again, politically the president did what he needed to do. he rallied his base. if the president was going to be bipartisan, he would have after saying that would have turned around and answered pelosi and said, nancy, don't say that americans tactics are
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unamerican. that's just not -- again, the president did politically what i thought he needed to do which is he revved up his base and reached to the middle saying he's not going to raise a dime to the deficit but this was not a bipartisan speech. this is politics of old. this is not politics of change. guess what? washington is the same washington that it was last year and it was ten years ago. >> did he have any other choice when you think about it? >> the president again according to reports i read yesterday, the president had not invited a republican to the white house since april to talk about health care reform. as i've been saying every morning and there's nothing wrong with it, democrats won. so he can be as partisan as he wants. as pat buchanan said, ronald reagan was very partisan. that's how he got his stuff through. just don't tell us your bipartisan because this president and his legislation
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has been anything but bipartisan. that's fine. it's legitimate. democrats won. republicans had their chance. they lost and blew it. >> i would argue the way the conversation is going, i don't think he had a lot of choices. >> no. the president always has a choice. the president and the way he saset up the stimulus package and set it up cap and trade and his budget it led him to this point where he painted himself into a corner. he also could have talked to the leader of the senate last night. he said don't call americans evil. if we're going -- we're all talking this morning he sure showed those crazy conservatives out of control this summer. they've not been alone. >> they have not. they have not. >> in fact, he said it's not just radio talk show hosts and cable news hosts. >> that was interesting. >> then he started pointing to republican leaders. i'm saying those are people out of power. he actually had people running the institution he was speaking
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in last night talking about unamerican activities and also talking about americans being evil. and he didn't say a single word. he was pointing fingers at republicans. >> what else is he going to do >> he could be honest if he wanted to but he was being partisan and that's fine. >> here's lawrence o'donnell joining the conversation. lawrence, welcome. >> good to be here from washington. >> lawrence, we have been talking about this speech. barnicle and i and i think mika and willie probably all agree, politically, this was a very good speech for his base. >> i don't care about politically. i never care about that. i was a legislative mechanic working in the united states senate on the senate finance committee and i got to tell you for people like me, there was very, very little in this speech and literally nothing new because what the obama plan is
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nothing but word for word the baucus plan. last year during the presidential campaign when hillary and obama were making so much noise about their differing health care plans which differed only by one sentence by the way, i told everybody just ignore it because health care is up to someone you've never heard of named max baucus. that turns out to be absolutely true. it's all up to the finance committee chairman and obama proved that last night by taking max baucus' plan, reciting a few lines from it saying this is my plan. >> larry, what does that mean? >> it means things that nobody understands. he got to a section finally about three-fourths of the way through he got to the part that accounts for me. people like me when you proposal legislation, the first thing we say -- we don't ask you how much good does it do and tell me, you know, all of the reasons for doing it. we just say how are you paying for this?
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and the pay for section of this speech includes a lot of mirages and things that sound perfectly okay but people don't have any idea what they are. i mean, the president actually stood up there and said -- actually said -- reducing the waste and inefficiency in medicare and medicaid will pay for most of this plan. >> that's not true, is it? >> guess what? i've gone over the medicare budget back in '94. i had to supervise cuts in the medicare budget which is nothing but reductions in the rate of increase but that's something. i couldn't find a category in there called waste, fraud and abuse. >> will you explain to people and we always joked about it when we drafted bills, where are you going to get the money? waste, fraud and abuse and everyone would laugh because it
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has always been this washington gimmick. i'm not being partisan. republicans said it waste, fraud and abuse. >> ronald reagan paid for everything with waste, fraud and abuse. >> that's why we got deficits. he's not going pay for this with waste, fraud and abuse from medicare. if he goes to medicare, it will be what most people call cuts. what you and i call a reduction in the rate of increase. >> and they will be serious cuts. the cuts are designed right now -- by the way, no one knows what the cuts are. when they say we'll cut medicare, none of the senators will actually be able to tell you what those cuts are when they legislate it. only the staff of the senate finance committee and the ways an means committee in the house will be able to tell you what those cuts are. it's a very detailed package and it's very, very specific and they design them to not hit the beneficiaries. they basically cut it out of the providers. money going to doctors. money going to hospitals. money going to clinics. that sort of thing.
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i'm not suggesting when the president says seniors, i'm not going cut your benefits. i'm not suggesting that he is going to cut their benefits. what i'm saying is he's going to take real money out of the syst system. it's not an easy thing to do. i had to do in 1994 and it was a painful set of choices i had to make. the beauty of it is that medicare is so vast that no one will ever catch you when you make the cuts and they'll never know what was sacrificed when you start making these cuts. it is not felt at the beneficiary level and that's the politically important thing for democrats. >> let me read from "the new york times" editorial. the president found his voice. his speech to a joint session of congress was powerful in insistence that reform must finally happen for the sake of americans' health and the economic health of the country. we hope it was only the start of a sustained campaign to get this essential legislation passed.
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mike barnicle? >> lawrence, as the president heads down the road to yes, which is the road he's on, i thought my ears heard him change the number of people who would be eligible from 46 million to 30 million. what significance is that? >> this is the most important point you hit on it. this has been going on for months and the media has ignored it. the two magic words that do not appear, they do not appear in the president's speech last night, universal coverage. that was the only thing bill clinton talked about in 1994. and in fact, we were so certain when he gave that speech comparable speech to congress that he would pass that bill. he was so certain that he actually held up one of these. can you see this? a health security card.
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they ended up making about 100 of these to give to us power brokers on the hill at the time. i still have mine. it still doesn't work. everyone in america was supposed to have one in your pocket for the last 15 years and that's what was going pay for your health care. >> so who are the 17 million that get taken off? >> none of the bills -- none of the bills in the house, none of those ultraliberal bills in the house cover everyone. universal coverage has been abandoned and so this crusade is about some very, very imperfect bills that leave us in different cases tens of -- the health committee bill in the senate left out 30 million people. in the house, they left out 15 to 20 million people in each one of those bills. >> let me read from "the wall street journal." mr. obama's speech was less about persuading the public than
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a political pep talk to the beltw beltway constituency. joe? >> in my book, i talked about glorious pursuit. i wondered if you chucked last night when president obama said we are not the first to talk about health care reform but we will be the last. i mean -- >> no chance. that's such an absurd line that he would be the last person to talk about this. if they pass this, they'll leave out tens of millions of people and say now here's our plan for covering them. also, any version of this plan is so complicated and has so many new governmental inventions that we've never seen work before that they will all have to be fixed repeatedly over time and -- which by the way, is normal governance.
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that's absolutely normal. >> today we get the new numbers from the census bureau of the number of uninsured and this battle goes on. the with tpresident will have ah care rally in minneapolis on saturday. we'll see how that goes. >> mr. sunshine, you have brightened our day. >> and by the way, joe, your health care plan is going to change. i will explain that to you after the break if you want me to. >> i better talk to the witch doctor. >> coming up in a few minutes, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory will join us and senator claire mccaskill. goodwrench... we roll out the blue carpet
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you get an entree. and ammo. and for an extra thousand dollars she'll treat you like john mccain and cut up your meat. >> all right. time for some sports. i just got mike barnicle, the number one red sox fan in the world to admit that derek jeter is greater than any red sox that ever lived. >> you lie! you lie! >> you just said it. last night he joined lou gerrick. >> derek jeter pulled in on the all-time hit list. worst slump of the season he had three hits against the rays that tied the mark in the second with a single to right.
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he now shares it with one of the classiest players in the game. a three-run homer in the eighth and yanks rally to beat the jays 4-2. jeter's next chance to break the mark is tomorrow night against the orioles. >> ninth inning. scott rowland puts cincinnati on top with the first home run in over a month. rockies came right back. seth smith a shot to second. phillips couldn't handle it. two came in to score and that's your ball game. rockies won it 5-4. to milwaukee, cards and brewers. albert pujols continued his mvp campaign. adam wainwright picked up a victory. cards swept brewers 5-1. phils and nationals tied at four. a moon shot to deepest part of the park. third home run in four games.
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launched to left and for the second straight game the phils hit back-to-back homers and beat the nationals in d.c. iverson had a bad year. deal believed to be worth 4.3 million bucks which is less than $21 million he earned last season. donovan set up clark for the lone goal. americans now lead the qualifying group after mexico beat honduras. for the first time in the tournament, the 17 year old came out flat. dropped the first 14 of 18 points and never recovered and lost in straight sets. on the men's side, federer advanced. when michael vick faces the redskins on october 24th, hundreds of hungry dogs will benefit. five pounds of dog food will be donated every time vick is
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tackled. vick is the backup quarterback and redskins defense is ranked 24th in the league. this video is making the rounds. dunk right over another player. in mid air he put the ball between his legs and threw down a dunk never seen before. kind of fitting that on the eve of michael jordan's induction into the hall of fame, the dunk is being refined as we know it. >> one more story about melanie oudin. we got a story that her father filed from divorce from her mother because her mother was sleeping with oudin's tennis coach. you hate to see that. true story. coming up, news you can't use. a major, major announcement on "american idol." could ellen be the judge to fill paula abdul's shoes? sounds like she might be. >> you lie! i'm walgreens ceo and i'm also a pharmacist.
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>> i heard news you can't use. this could be considered somewhat useful. this is not speculation. it is happening. we have the new fourth judge replacing paula abdul on "american idol." you won't believe who it is. >> is it true? >> ellen degeneres. >> i love it. >> she's the new judge. she announced it on her show. it's not a fluke. she signed a five-year contract with fox to do this.
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can you imagine what they're paying her. keeping her day job. wile do it at night. here's ellen making the announcement yesterday. >> i have a big announcement to make. no one knows this. tony doesn't know. no one knows. that's why we had to start a tiny bit late today. i just finally got the okay just moments ago to announce this to you today. god. i'm going to be the zblunew judn "american idol." i'm not leaving here. i'll have a day job and a night job. the times we're living in we're all doing that. >> i was worried for a second there. i was nervous she was building up and i thought she was going to tell america she was gay. can you imagine the "time" magazine cover? >> it's going to be great. >> ellen said she never missed one episode of the show. she loves the show. now she'll be a judge. >> i hope she brings that change to the table. >> she will. she's got a good heart. >> teellen is a nice person.
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>> the beauty of any ellen news story gives us the opportunity to show you this. ♪ >> we can because we love. as i always said it's the way he throws her. >> chris, we love you. >> so most of the major networks carried president obama's speech last night except for fox. they did not do it. >> why not? >> it was a big speech. >> it was big news. if you were distracted by the president's speech, we want to get you caught up on "so you think you can dance" last night. this is a guy that charmed the judges with his rendition of "all that jazz" from the show
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"chicago." >> this instead of the president? ♪ >> screw health care. >> you know what i would love, i would have loved to have a split screen seriously. a lot was happening at the state of the union address at the time. >> that guy didn't make the cut. i got to show you one more thing. we love john. >> great friend. >> i picked up the latest copy of "newsweek." i thought i was reading "the onion." is your baby racist? >> you know, it's an important question to ask.
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>> it's about whether or not -- >> whether there's a scientific angle to this. >> i have two babies and no signs of racism yet. >> i have seven children. at each of their births that's the first question i asked. >> we love john. >> love you, john. >> "newsweek" is a fine magazine. the president's speech last night, grade it. >> it was politically an a. i think the president played to his base. he forgot republicans. they weren't going to vote for it any way. i think there's going to be a long-term -- >> that's been your advice. >> i think there will be long-term damage to him politically. he has chosen to be very partisan this first year. it will make -- he may pay down the road. he needs to get his base on board and reach out to independents by talking about something deficit neutral that
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helps politically. lawrence brings up real concerns about whether this is going to pass in the long run or not. if it does, it will have impact, we'll talk to him. >> lawrence o'donnell still with us. we'll get his negative point of view coming up. >> mike barnicle will pitch in and also david gregory. >> we have senator claire mccaskill and senator judd greg on deck. let's look at today's top stories in confronting his critics and calling for compromise, president obama is laying out his plan to overhaul the nation's health care system. it's a $900 billion proposal over the next decade and speaking to a joint session of congress last night, the president addressed not only policy but also public perception. >> to my progressive friends i would remind that you for decades the driving idea behind reform has been to end insurance company abuses and make coverage available for those without it. [ applause ]
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the public option is only a means to that end. we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal. and to my republican friends, i say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may have. [ applause ] >> there was also an outburst by south carolina representative joe wilson who is now apologizing for heckling the president during his address. the republican shouted "you lie" as the president discussed what the white house called the myths surrounding its proposal. >> there are also those who claim that you are reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. this, too, is false. the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> not true. >> that may have not been the way to do it.
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what are conservatives concerned about? >> it was terrible. he apologized for it. what conservatives are saying in the house, the bill says it won't cover illegal immigrants but you can't ask somebody if they're an illegal immigrant. it forbids you from checking their citizenship so what conservatives are saying is it's a fight for illegal immigrants but you prevent a health care provider from seeing if someone is actually an american resident or not. >> okay. all right. he also put out an official apology which he sent to the white house. >> i thought it was fun. he said it to rahm emanuel. he has said so many things in the past. i might have apologized to axelrod but rahm? come on. >> we'll move on from it. it's a small part of the speech. a preacher under arrest after trying to hijack a plane from cancun after it landed in mexico
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city. held 103 passengers and crew hostage for more than an hour. fortunately everyone was released unharmed. apple ceo steve jobs is signaling he's back in charge with his first official public appearance in more than a year. the 54 year old cancer survivor is recovering from a liver transplant that sidelined him back in january. bernie madoff is heard coaching a witness. >> you don't have to be too brilliant with these guys because you don't have to be. you're not supposed to have that knowledge and, you know, you wind up saying something which is either wrong or, you know, just not something you have to do. >> okay. for those that weren't around when lawrence spoke last time, we have lawrence o'donnell in washington d.c. lawrence is an expert in health
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care reform. he fought the good fight in '93 and '94. you said health care reform won't pass. did this move the needle at all? >> i don't want to talk about it anymore. mika said i'm negative. >> she says that in a positive way. >> i'm just trying to be realistic and tell you what's really in this. so i don't want to -- >> no. no. no. >> don't go crazy on us. >> joe, about the heckler, i'm sure you remember your first time you were in the chamber for one of these addresses. the first time i was in the chamber for one of these addresses, it was the first president bush and you know me. within the first 30 seconds of being in the room i realized oh, my god, i could become the world's most famous heckler. and it took all of my strength to get through the entire speech
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without ever screaming out some kind of heckling. >> it's awful. >> incredible impulse you have to fight when you're there. >> we do have new people listening this hour. tell us, lawrence, does it move the needle at all? >> i don't think it does. look, you're right. this was a to the base speech and let's all remember what his biggest political problem was before he started this speech. she was sitting right behind him. nancy pelosi who had issued her veto order on a bill that does not include the public option. so he had to go in there and say to the house of representatives, look, it's not going to be your way. everything you have voted on in these committees is not going to happen. we're not going to do three new top tax brackets. we're not going to do all of this stuff that you guys have voted on including the public option. he needed to give that speech and get applause and approval from those people and so he definitely overnight in all of the evidence he definitely won
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the liberals back. >> yesterday, last night, i tweeted before the speech. the president is not going to be able to make nancy pelosi happy and max baucus happy at the same time. most likely. it sounds like from what you're saying this morning, he did exactly that. it's a great political feat. >> he took max baucus senate finance committee plan, recited it word for word -- >> and then counted the republicans. >> a simplified story and got nancy pelosi and the hundred members of the liberal caucus in the house to applaud for doing this without a public option. now, the terrible weakness of all that is that's the business that you normally do behind closed doors. you don't have to go into a national speech to force them to applaud for you. look, in a speech where one-tenth of it, one-tenth of this speech was in praise of senator ted kennedy.
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you know that that is not a speech to republicans, to the middle. imagine -- look, i understand this is an atmosphere in the wake of his funeral where it can feel different. i ask any northeastern liberals who were listening to that speech, imagine a republican president standing up there asking for legislation and spending 10% of the time in praise of ronald reagan. >> i think the equivalent would be a jesse helms. >> i'm just saying in fund-raising letters in the northeast, jesse helms was always used. ted kennedy always used in the southeast. that is how it came across i think to a lot of conservatives last night. lawrence, stay with us. i want to go right now to moderator of nbc's "meet the press." david, we were talking about how the president seemed to not only
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get his liberal base on board, he was able to go down and pick off points of the baucus plan that he liked. it seems like he may have been able by attacking republicans throughout the speech, by talking about senator kennedy, bring the party together. >> well, it's interesting. i make a few points. to lawrence's point, i think what the speech reflected was the advice that liberals have given the president which is that you got to start fighting for this thing. you got to get stronger and you definitely got that from last night's speech. there was more emotion to it. i thought he was the most passionate and the most emotional when talking about ted kennedy and perhaps could you have shown more emotion in other parts of the speech. but he certainly was talking about senator kennedy. he certainly was sort of taking republicans on and yet he was able at the same time to inject his real political signature which is pragmatism into the debate as well. there were some new ideas where there was outreach to
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republicans. i'm not sure if that outreach was so much i want to reach out and hold your hand as much as it was, look, some of your ideas are here. if you don't show up to the table, we'll let you know about it and call you out as he said. >> mike barnicle, the president has been fairly multimedia about this. he's been out in america and on the internet. he's addressed this in every way, shape and form. some say too much. do you think perhaps he brought it home last night because of the time and place and the setting and legitimized it to an extent by verbalizing this quite seriously to both the left and right in the hall of congress? >> i think the hall -- the people in the hall were the biggest thing the president has going for him in this. i think both sides set in stone and the way it works republicans seated and not applauding makes them look small. it makes democrats look ridiculous when they stand up every six seconds applauding the
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president. i think people watching said these people are fools. i don't know whether it moved the meter or not in terms of the votes in the house and the senate, but i get the sense that it may have moved the meter big-time out in the country. >> that's the ultimate goal. we'll have to watch over the next couple of days to see what happens. make no mistake, what the white house wanted out of this was an ability to the president to take a hold of the debate and clear up confusion about what health care reform is. tom friedman said on "meet the press" last sunday, if you can define it, you can own it. president obama has not been able to define health care reform. he had a chance last night. we'll see if he was able to do that in terms of saying what it would be and what it means to you out there watching all of this. the other piece of this and the other audience are middle of the road americans politically independent who know that health care is expensive but they also know that -- their own health care is expensive but government
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reform is incredibly expensive. he spoke to the deficit. he talked about paying for reforms or cutting spending if savings are not realized. again on the public option, i mean, i agree there was plenty for the left in this speech but i think he did what he set out to do. after so many words were spoken by the media and others about the public options, it was not part of the 2008 campaign but the president i thought said it has a place but it's not everything. he made it very clear, i think, that it wouldn't necessarily be in there in the end. >> lawrence, off of what david said, let me ask you in terms of your experience, your judgment on what happens once the house bill and senate bill goes to conference. say it comes out of conference without the public option included in it when it hits the floor in final form, where does nancy pelosi have to go? she's got to vote for that,
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doesn't she? >> yeah. i don't think the house will even bother to send the bill into conference with a public option. why would you put the house members through a vote that you know the president is not going to support in conference? so this is where it starts to get very tricky. this is where it got very tricky in 1994. the senate is obviously weaker than the house in its ability to pass something. so what the strategy became in 1994 was the house demanded that the senate go first to show that they could really do something because the house did not want to extend itself on risky votes if it wasn't going to matter. the senate went out there first and it got killed. the bill died on the senate floor in about five days. the house never voted at all. that memory is there. so nancy pelosi has an unbelievably painful choice to make which is ordering her troops to go first or second. if she makes them go first as she did on cap and trade, some of them know they may be voting into the abyss.
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they may vote something forward that never really goes into conference with the other body and why should they risk that? and the ways of paying for this thing that the house has right now are come meetly ridiculous and have been completely rejected by the president. the house has to figure out an entirely new way to pay for this. >> let's end it right there. that's the real challenge. how does he pay for these proposals? as we said, waste, fraud and abuse is ridiculous. it's the last refuge of the truly desperate. we republicans did it all the time. democrats do it all the time. let's look and see how the final bill will be critical. >> lawrence o'donnell, thank you very much. we'll talk to you once again later on the radio today between 10:00 and noon. >> lawrence is so great on this issue. >> wnbc radio.com. david gregory, if you can say we
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love it. we'll see you on sunday on "meet the press." we'll talk about that in just a moment. coming up in just a few moments, senator claire mccaskill, senator judd gregg will be with us later. and steny hoyer will join us as will representative eric cantor. here's bill karins with a quick check on the forecast. >> thanks. getting you out the door this morning, the travel trouble spot. mid-atlantic region. windy conditions and wet from virginia beach into southern new jersey. bring your umbrella. airports looking fine to start our day. we're not looking at too many trouble spots out west. the problem areas are along the gulf from san antonio to florida you'll get some rain. that's a look at your forecast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. does your mouthwash work in six different ways? introducing listerine total care. everything you need... to strengthen teeth,
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let me discuss an issue that's of great concern to me, to members of this chamber and to the public. that's how we pay for this plan.
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now, here's what you need to know. first, i will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. >> wow. okay. >> by the way, a couple breaking news items and i'll let you read that in a second. andrew, the speech is important, he got beatles rock band and says it's incredible. five stars from andrew. >> we have david gregory and savannah guthrie joins the conversation as well. how is the white house feeling this morning? >> reporter: i think they feel very good. i think they feel they accomplished what they set out to accomplish and they reenergized the debate and they provided more details giving congress a clear road map. that's how they feel about it. regarding that outburst from
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republican congressman joe wilson, obviously that was not well received here but at the same time i think that they don't think it's the worst thing in the world if that's what people remember about republicans after watching that speech. they think it's another occasion where republicans have really overstepped and overplayed their hand by not showing the basic dec decorum within the chamber. >> we're hearing reports that wilson's opponent raised $100,000 since that outburst. david gregory, that's really a dream for a president when somebody misbehaves on the other side of the aisle and makes them look bad. i wonder if the president really got what he wanted last night by trying to seem above the fray. at the end of this long, hot ugly summer trying to be the guy in control. >> well, that's it. being the guy in control is what he's got to be now. it's interesting. you know, being above the fray is one thing.
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in that speech he also said if you say things that aren't true, we're going to call you out. you have to wonder if you're a supporter of the president, where was that guy all summer long? a lot of that has been happening over the course of the summer and even within the last couple of weeks his education speech for instance where there was this campaign built up against it. this is what allies of the president want to see is him standing up and standing strong and being clear about what he wants and being tough on his opposition. and as much outrage as there was apparently crediting john mccain with an idea about expanding risk fools and other ideas that republicans have been fighting for, really this was about setting republicans up as the rebellious opposition party that doesn't want to get on board. >> he set up the straw man, the republican party, he knocked it over repeatedly. i don't knock him for that. that's a great political device.
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also, the problem is republicans haven't had somebody on the other side. this shows the president can knock them around and there's not a major figure that can stand up to say, wait a second, on that school speech, let's not forget in '91 the democratic congress demanded a gao investigation of george h.w. bush's speech or what about the lady sitting behind you that called people unamerican for protesting the way they did or harry reid calling -- i mean people -- evil. republicans are voiceless. it allows the president to have full play of the field which i guess, david and savannah, leads to the question why hasn't he gotten out there before because it's only his team running washington. >> i'll make this point. i don't think republicans have been voiceless. they may not be key political figures in washington that command centralized attention but i think that the anti-obama forces have been mobilized.
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they've been organized. and in terms of health care, they've defined the opposition to this debate. there are numerous heleaders. i raise the question all the time. it's not clear hot leader of the republican party is. there's different heads of it. i think that there are certainly forces against what this president stands for and against his version of government and then against him personally as well in certain quarters. >> the problem is when you have forces -- i'm sorry to interrupt you. we have a short amount of time. the problem is when you have forces instead of one strong leader, that's when people get crazy and start making on the fringes make these attacks that get thrown on the party. s savannah guthrie, the white house, do they just go to work on democrats? have they just forget the republicans we need 60 votes in the senate and we need 218 votes in the house?
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>> reporter: i think that's where this is headed. i think for example on the public option i think if it wasn't obvious before it was obvious last night. there probably won't be a bill with any public option. that trigger idea is getting a lot of traction. i think senator olympia snow, a republican, will be key. there is still hope they can do this through 60 votes in the senate and not have to go to reconciliation. it's all about those moderate democrats. maybe one or two republicans they may be able to sway over to their side and the president is going on the road. there will be a road show over the next six weeks starting this weekend in minnesota where he'll make this pitch for health care reform. >> david, final thoughts? how do you think may be on "meet the press" this weekend? >> we'll have more on how the president did and where this thing goes from here. it's still a work in progress. our conversation will include howard dean, newt gingrich as part of our panel. >> howard dean is so great on this. that will be good. >> mike is a huge newt gingrich
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fan. thank you. >> bill and i will pick newt up and bring him to "meet the press." >> savannah, if you're sober, give us a call. we would love to talk to you. >> reporter: i never miss it. sober? well, all right. >> we'll be back in two hours. get ready for that. >> she's so funny. >> oh, gosh. there was a time i wouldn't step out of the house
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on issues like these, ted kennedy's passion was born of not some rigid ideology but of his own experience. that large heartedness. that concern and regard for the plight of others is not a partisan feeling. it's not a republican or a democratic feeling. it, too, is part of the american heritage. >> we have senator claire mccaskill. one of the key players in the health care reform debate. she's in the middle of america both geographically and politically in a state that george w. bush won twice and john mccain barely won in '08. senator, you have a very important voice in washington. tell us what did you think of
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last natuight's speech? >> i thought it was good. i thought he began to fill in details. one of the biggest problems we've had in this whole debate is that there hasn't been enough information out there for people to understand what's really being proposed. no one understood what is a public option? what is an insurance exchange? he began to fill in details and most importantly, for a moderate like me, he talked about handcuffing the public option and that's essential because if you don't handcuff it by saying we won't subsidize it with public money, it could morph into a comprehensive government plan which is something most of the moderates cannot support. >> senator, you focused more on deficits and big spending than most other democrats in the house or the senate. you heard that catch phrase that lawrence o'donnell and i were laughing about earlier this morning. the last refuge of the truly desperate. we republicans did it all the time. democrats do it. everybody does it. waste, fraud and abuse.
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we both know that two 30s of this bill will not be paid for by waste, fraud and abuse. so is this really going to come down to figuring out how to pay for the president's proposals? >> i think honestly part of it may have been a reluck tans to say the word medicare advantage in the speech. we need to say those words. it haven't brought down the cost of medicare and improved access. it has fattened up the insurance companies at the expense of taxpayers. that's a huge number. if we pull back the taxpayer subsidies under medicare d and under medicare advantage, we have a huge down payment on what we need to get done. >> senator, on my twitter you are called by somebody articulate and classy.
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what do you make of the outburst? doesn't it just sort of put the republicans in a bad light by virtue of the behavior in that setting? >> yeah. you know, it was shocking. i agree with joe that from time to time there has been a little bit of bad behavior in these presidential addresses. certainly i know there have been many members that have felt under their breath that maybe a president is not saying what is exactly correct. we haven't had anybody show that kind of disrespect to the institution before. so i did think that the behavior was really bad. on the other hand, he quickly apologized. let's be done with it. let his constituents take over from now on. we should not spend anymore time on this. the man apologized. i think that's great. i applaud him for apologizing. >> it's interesting, senator, i know joe. i actually -- before i knew who yelled it out, i called the
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person who did it "a dumb ass" and then i found out it was joe wilson. gosh. great american. he was really dumb last night. but i guess if a quiet soft-spoken guy like that can get so swept into this debate and get that angry and laws control, it shows just how heated and how volatile and i think how irrational this entire health care debate has become. do you think last night will begin a process where we can actually have thoughtful debates and disagreements on issues that matter? >> well, let's talk politics for a minute. you know, i think one of the things the president did last night is he spoke to the american people because frankly i think i disagree with some of you guys this morning that think he was talking to us. i think he was talking to the american people. the bottom line is the risk of doing nothing politically is a huge risk.
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i think that republicans -- this is hard. it's emotional. that's why we never have done anything on it. that's why this as the president said last night this keeps getting kicked down the road. i think that if they continue to try to block any health care reform, there's a huge political price to pay because there is so much truth to the president's words about it becoming unreachable health care coverage for the vast majority of middle america. it will happen if we don't do something. >> senator, i think i heard you say that you had some reservations about the public option in terms of how we were going to be able to pay for it and you were heartened to hear the president sort of describe how we were going to pay for the public option or keep costs under control. my question to you is, every time i hear the phrase public option in terms of how many people are going to have it made available to them, it seems to me it would be such an attractive thing that it would only grow because of its
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attractiveness in terms of costs. my question is, are you going to create a legislative border around whatever public option is created if it passed to limit the numbers of people who can apply for the public option? >> well, i think the way we limit it is by not underwriting it with public money. whether it is a public option or co-op, we did a co-op in missouri on workers comp rates. the state of missouri invested and began a not for profit company. we brought down the rate in missouri. maybe a company with a lower overhead and not paying the ceo 11 million a year and that will help bring some competition. as long as we don't subsidize it with public money it will be very, very difficult for it to grow into this huge monster that gobbles up all of the private companies. that's what we are very concerned about.
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those of us that are in the moderate middle on this issue. >> senator claire mccaskill, good to see you. thank you for being on the show. >> take care. >> i just want to say i think moderates are going to the white house today to talk to the president. hopefully we'll make more progress. >> great. have fun. >> we would love to talk to you soon. >> dangerous for republicans to vote against health care reform? >> truthfully? not at all. it's not only not dangerous but the safe bet for republicans. i would say for blue dogs still. again, here's the number that will never get changed. mike, you disagree. the number that never changes regardless of how well the president delivers the speech, 78% of americans are pleased with their health care. you watch. there are going to be taxes in here. they will be what can be defined as cuts to medicare. he can't change the realities on the ground and they're tough.
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>> coming up next -- we'll have eric cantor. the great taste of splenda no calorie sweetener and added a little fiber? sweet! sweet! sweet! (announcer)splenda no calorie sweetener with fiber. now for the first time, a gram of healthy fiber in every packet. sweet! (announcer) splenda no calorie sweetener, starts with sugar. tastes like sugar. but it's not sugar. no calories and a little fiber. how's that taste? (together) sweet! sweet! (announcer) splenda with fiber. imagine life sweeter.
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>> if you are among the hundreds of millions of americans who already have health insurance through your job or medicare or medicaid or the va, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage of the doctor you have. >> chief washington correspondent norah o'donnell from washington. we have republican representative from virginia and house minority whip eric cantor. last night the president says if you want to keep your doctor, you get to keep your doctor. that's good, right? >> that's good if it was reflected in the president's plan. we heard a lot last night from the president. we were looking for specifics.
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i don't quite think he took away the fear most people have about a potential government replacement of the existing health care system. >> he said you get to keep your doctor. do you think that's not the case under his bill? >> i know that in the house there are provisions which cut off existing plans and then we start anew under a new regime of a washington engineered health care benefit plan and that's really the fear. i think that's where the people have been over the last month. very concerned that they won't be able to maintain the kind of health care kochbcoverage they and most people like the health care coverage they have. >> last night, of course, the side show, joe wilson stood up and said the president was lying about illegal immigration. he already apologized for that so we won't go there. what's the case with illegal immigration? is it true that in this bill you can't ask somebody that comes for treatment under this bill
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whether they're an american citizen or not? >> i think on the surface there is language in the bill that would deny coverage to illegal immigrants, however, there is no requirement of verification of legal status in this country. if you put the two together, it could very well be the case where you have folks without legal status getting benefits. >> there's no requirement but no ban in the bill? no ban against asking that question are you a citizen of the united states? >> there's no requirement that you have to give verification, joe. >> all right. so let's ask about what the president said last night. i will not sign a bill that does not raise the deficit. how does he pay for this bill? what have you heard? >> well, you know, that is sort of the puzzle that needs to be put together. the president already said last night his bill would cost $900 billion. we know the way congress is it will be well over a trillion if
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it were to be completed. the way the president is looking to fund this bill is on the backs of small businesses. and that is the problem right now while we're facing economic turmoil unlike we faced in a generation, now certainly is not the time to attack those counting on to create jobs. >> i want to ask you about small businesses. that's one of the most underreported parts about the entire bill. i want to ask you do you believe as the president said last night, this is a moral issue and this is about the character of our country? >> well, you know, i do believe that we do have an issue in our country right now where health care costs have become a big issue to most people. and if we remember most people get their insurance through their employers and employers are saying, look, we can't afford to continue this cost escalation. we have to do something about it. if we also say, look, it's washington that's the largest health care payor, how do we deal with that, we have to fix the current system so it can
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sustain itself and so that the businesses can stay in the act because if we don't have them in the act, we won't have a system that we understand and know right now. >> congressman, the president, did he put the perhaps republican voice in a box where they didn't want to be especially when you look at how some of them were -- what are you doing? i >> i'm sorry. >> we have a picture of you texting. >> stop it. >> you cast the first stone. >> sorry. >> congressman, i hope it was an important text. >> it was. reaching out to the people. >> i'm here to try to talk about the issues that -- >> by the way, much better that you text during a presidential speech than while you're driving your car, mika. eric cantor, thank you for being
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with us. >> thank you. >> okay. let's go right now from a republican to the democratic majority leader, congressman steny hoyer. good to see you. what did you think of the president's speech last night? you were in one of those more moderate mid-atlantic states districts. how are your people going to respond to this speech? >> we'll respond positively. in the polls i have seen this morning, they did respond all over the country very positive to this speech. the president did what he needed to do first of all he made it very clear there is a very big problem. we've got to deal with that the present system is not sustainable from a financial standpoint for individuals, for families, for businesses, small, medium and large and for the government. and for the taxpayer. i think he made the case as to why we're moving on this. he made the case for the fact that a lot of these myths that have been talked about are not
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accurate and in fact eric cantor made the case for this bill in his closing statement just now to you in terms of the problems that confront business and individuals with respect to health care. i think it was a speech that focused the american public on why we're dealing with this issue. of course, every presidential candidate, republican and democratic, talked about doing health care reform in the last election. we had a year's debate essentially on both sides of the aisle. republicans and democrats saying we need to move forward on health reform. the president put forward a plan that can work and must work. >> congressman, tell us where we are here. we read comments that the president doesn't have votes to get health care done. having worked inside on the hill relentlessly, where do you stand right now? how close are we to getting the votes on health care? how close are you, i should say. >> i don't have a count for you.
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i will tell you this everybody that i talked to since we've come back over the last two days has told me they are for health care reform. every democrat that i've talked to has said they are for health care reform. clearly the details matter. but, again, cantor indicated we want to build on the present system. he's absolutely right. they discount the fact if the president said if you got it and you like it, you can keep it. that's a fact. we're building on a system. building a system that will provide for affordability, for quality health care and accessibility. that's our objective. that's what the president laid out. that's what we're going to do. i think we'll get the votes. >> norah? >> congressman, let me ask you about the president's proposal when it comes to small businesses and we all know small businesses are the engine of this economy. they are going to help this economy turn around. they'll hire people. what about the requirements about whether this bill break the back of small businesses
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when you require -- when you mandate that they cover the insurance of all of their employees. what are you going to require small businesses to do? most small businesses cannot pay the full cost of insuring an employee. >> norah, first of all, as you know, 95% of small businesses are exempt essentially over time. that was in one of the amendments in the energy and commerce bill because we understand that businesses of 25 or less are struggling but their employees and themselves -- >> what about a small business with 100 employees. if you're making windows or you're a restaurant and you have 100 employees, will you require a small business to pay the entire cost of an employee's health insurance or just to provide the option of health insurance? this is really significant and no one has talked about this. >> we're giving a 50% tax credit, norah, for exactly that reason to small businesses so
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they can afford the insurance because we understand that that will be a burden and so we'll give them a big tax break in order to help them afford that because we believe that their employees need to be covered and very frankly the small business people i talk to say they believe themselves and their employees need to be covered. it's a competitive issue for them. but they need help. that's why we're giving a tax credit in the bill. >> congressman, is there going to be a punishment for this joe wilson? he reports about that. would seem kind of -- >> i thought what congressman wilson did was totally inappropriate, a shameful, really in many ways. he has apologized. i think frankly ought to apologize to the house as well. not only did he undermine the civility in the house of representatives and say something to the president in 29 years i have never heard said in a presidential speech on the house floor.
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>> of course they call me that on the house floor every day but i deserved it. right. >> joe -- on the house floor, never that. you were just wrong sometimes. a difference between wrong and truthful. >> you know what, always remember, truth is the defense. >> for you it always saved you. all right. congressman majority leader, great talking to you. (announcer) time brings new wisdom
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welcome back to "morning joe." let's go around the country. a beautiful shot of las vegas where willy is off to right now. we want to go anywhere else? i guess we do. looks like chicago. president obama's hometown. gorgeous city. and the native son did pretty darn well last night. the gateway to the west. >> we're going to st. louis. >> i'm distracted. norah o'donnell, mike barnicle. washington, d.c., it's grim in washington but it's warm on the set of "morning joe." so nice on name your price. beautiful shot of new york. you do all right there. >> mike is like -- makes we
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wonder what willy and -- welcome. just about the top of the hour. >> back from summer camp. >> thank you. thank you. a little bit of book writing and zip line. >> joining us for the hour. >> for the hour. >> and the president's speech, we'll get to news and everything. but the bottom line to you. >> it sounds like everybody seems to be in agreement on this, he spoke to his base, he convinced his base, he was able to reach out to some of the middle. if you have all of the votes you need in both chambers, that's what you want to do. and he got a lot of -- even though he gave up the public option or sounded like he gave up the public option, he still was able to get democrats like nancy pelosi and editorial writers at "the new york times" on his side by attacking republicans repeatedly. they have been wanting this president to fight back, he gave them partisan speech last night.
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and i think it's going to help him. possibly pass the bill. >> could be useful. a lot of the editorials positive about the speech. a few critical ones. a look at the top stories, then we'll hash this out. president obama is laying out his plan to overhaul the nation's health care system. it's the $900 billion proposal over the next decade speaking to a joint session of congress the president addressed not only policy but also public perception. >> to my progressive friends i would remind you for decades the driving idea behind reform has been to end insurance company abuses and make coverage available for those without it. the public option is only a means to that end. we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal. and to my republican friends, i say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we
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should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may have. >> it was a small side show during the speech, south carolina representative joe wilson now apologizing for heckling the president during his address. the republican shouted "you lie" as the president discuss what had the white house calls the myths surrounding his proposal. >> there are also those who claim our reforms would insure illegal immigrants. this, too, is false. the reform -- the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. not true. >> wow. and despite all of the coverage around the president's speech, it will ultimately be up to congress to hammer out the specifics of any reform bill. although the president says the best way to improve coverage is through a public option he suggested democrats should be
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willing to compromise. nbc's meredith vieira asked vice president joe biden about that earlier on "today." >> he is willing to sign a bill that does not have a public option in it. >> he is willing to stein a bill, any bill, whatever mechanism you call it, that, in fact, guarantees that there is a choice for people that's affordable. if they have a better idea how to accomplish that principle, we're prepared to listen to it. >> wow. >> where was he? >> that was an interesting sound bite. >> look, by the way. >> joe is the greatest. >> the best there is. >> we're going to go to rick stengel. first a very quick -- the speech. did the president bring people
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more democrats over to his side? >> i think he brought more people over to his side. i don't know about party affiliation. i'm always -- >> not bringing in republicans with the speech. >> i'm interested in -- i don't know about that. i'm interested in the cosmetics. i'm thinking about people watching the speech, partially paying attention, kids come in to tell them who they got for home room teacher this year and they are looking at these two packs of people sitting on their hands, jumping up and down and come to the part where the president says, there are no death panels. and the republicans sit there like stone. and people -- i think you got to be sitting out there, what's wrong with these people. everybody steps up and applauds except they don't. what's wrong? what's wrong with these people on both sides of the aisle. >> mike barnicle rapid fire. >> i think it's also about mo jo. i think the president needed to -- people think he lost his liberal progressive base, think that he lost it, no longer a
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transformational leader. i think he was so passionate, this is about the character of this country, so i think he may have gotten those folks back in his corner and maybe convinced, maybe, some of the 50 blue dog democrats who they need. i don't think this is about the republicans. i think it's the independents and getting the more moderate democrats. >> got to win the democrats over and because republicans can't stop him. they don't have the votes to stop him. the president, andrew, ap poll came out 49% disapprove. upside-down on the health care, upside-down on the economy, does this turn things around? >> i think he did the right things. he didn't get at the one issue you were talking about in the 6:00 hour, which is the cost issue. how do you pay for it. i don't think he talks about efficiencies, i don't mean less health care. belter health care. those are the things people are concerned about and the $900 billion is still a big number. you can consider it an investment but you have to know
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what you get out on the other side. i'm not sure he articulated that. >> the president did say if a bill came to him that was not deficit neutral he would veto the bill. so we're going to look at what the congressional budget office says. you can't talk about waste, fraud and abuse, that's not going to get you where you need to be. it's so nice to have you back from summer camp. managing editor of "time" is here with the latest cover of "time" magazine. rick, what's it going to be next week? >> good morning, guys. i don't want to puncture your health care balloon but our cover is about an issue that a year from now, after we have stopped discussing health care, it may be the bane of the president's existence, it's about the unemployment rate. double digit unemployment, written by joshua ramo. it's a terrific story how that will, in some ways, be the cause that may help rise or help may
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sink the obama presidency. i think you know, i watched the speech last night. i think there will be a bill. i don't think anybody doubts that. we're now discussing the details of it. a year from now i think people will say hey, he did what he had to do on health care but what are we going to do about this structural cause of unemployment in america where there's double digit employment. as far as the eye can see. what are we going to do about that. that's what our cover story is about. we also have this as our annual national service issue, and i sat down last week with the president and the first lady as the first joint interview since the inauguration to talk about national service. and the story is about an interesting aspect of national service which is this idea of the rise of the ethical consumer, how americans more and more are deciding to buy green products or buy products from socially responsible companies. that is changing the economy. that's a lot to process there but that's the whole deal. >> that's the bottom line, too, jobs. we keep coming back to that in
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terms of trust in this presidency and the government and what they are doing and where the money is going. if people aren't getting jobs they are going to lose hope. when you look at the unemployed in america, rick, do you look at the different i guess dimensions of this crisis, which is a lot of older, highly skilled americans. highly ed caded, who are making a lot of money, completely out of work with nowhere to go. >> right. we looked at the structural problems in the economy and one of them is that you know, because of this great recession that we've gone through, you have baby-boomers who were expecting to retire who are not going to be able to retire, they are staying in their jobs, preventing younger people from getting some of those jobs that they might have gotten. there are actual structural problems in the economy now that are going to be with us for a long time that we all have to reckon with, that the president has to reckon with. and it may become the defining policy issue of his presidency rather than health care.
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>> andrew, i was speaking to an immigrant to this country yesterday from india, he said you know, you guys, i love this country, he said, you guy zrs a problem. you don't make anything. unemployment is going to keep going up until you guys start making things again. this is a huge structural problem that no one president or one congress is going to fix. >> i think you're right. it's because the question, though, is this last 10 years we have become the service industry. the questions i have is long term can we -- can that service industry bubble back up in another way. i have a question for rick. is rick with us? do we believe that the higher -- the longer we have higher unemployment, the better it is for obama to get his health care bill passed meaning it's more important with less people -- with more out of work that they are not going to be able to get health care or is it the opposite way around? >> i suspect andrew, it's the opposite way around. i think a lot of people believe
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and i subscribe to it, too, that the biggest task facing the president when he came in is fixing the economy. and the fact that you know, the economy, the economy, the economy is what is on people's minds. some worried hey, why is he changing focus and focusing on health care. even though part of his grand design is that fixing health care will help the economy. so i think that the unemployment rate doesn't help him get a health care bill passed even though i think of course he will get a health care bill passed. >> andrew. for months we have been saying around this table, jobs, jobs, jobs. the biggest issue much more than health care. >> got to be. in the immediate term. >> we were listening to you. >> my question to you, andrew, and we are happy you're back from camp, is it possible that the economy continues to revive and revives fairly well a year from now, off of rick's cover,
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and that joblessness remains constant and high. it's possible that over the next -- i think there are a number who will tell you over 12 months things will get better and unemployment will get higher. the question is whether that's sustainable not 12 months from now but 24 months from now. people talk about the w or the v. >> by the way, we had this debate six months ago, a year ago. or during the stimulus package debate about the new deal. did it work. even paul kruger this weekend said it was world war ii that got us out of the depression. the one thing, it really didn't work for the first eight years because unemployment stayed around 20%. those who said it did work were right also because industrial production went way up. so it's the same thing here where we could have the economy reviving but joblessness remaining high. >> did you notice what the president started on last night
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was not health care but the economy. yes. and talking about bringing us back from the brink and of course the democrats applauded and a bunch of republicans sat on their hands, do not believe we pulled ourselves back. >> what is interesting about rick's cover and the president's speech last night and the beginning is you can drive from baltimore, maryland up through scranton, pennsylvania, northern new jersey, all the way up to northern new england, and go through cities and towns where factories are closed and remain closed and will remain closed. you ask what's more important, health care or your job, the answer is my job. >> always. you know what's interesting, i always talk about when i drive around pensacola, florida with my wife and see places boarded up i'm walking around new york now. >> yeah. >> a lot of places in manhattan that were open a year ago and i'm looking going where did the restaurant go? where did this store go? >> that raises a question of whether we're going to need another economic stimulus and whether as we're going through
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this health care legislation, whether all of a sudden we're going to have to introduce -- and that's going to create a new debate whether we can do the health care. >> and rick, with the new cover, is potentially the next debate and whether or not anybody is going to trust that. >> right. just hopping on your discussion i'm in detroit, the great motor city where there has obviously been plant closings, loss of jobs but there is an incredible reservoir of energying talent and to change the way the structural problems of unemployment, places like detroit have to readapt, have to have green factories, have to produce new things that consumers want that will create jobs. that is the challenge ultimately in the 21st century with the economy and with the obama presidency. >> rick stengel, thank you so much. the new cover of "time" magazine
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is out of work in america. we appreciate you being here. i'll tell you the problem with another stimulus package. and you did have people asking for bigger stimulus packages. i think over the past nine months we've seen more concerns about long term deficits. we were talking about it and concerned about it nine months ago. now you are starting to see economists in the middle and on the left going wait a second, we're in big trouble. china's calling our bluff. interest rates could explode. this country's in big trouble. i don't -- i don't think it's possible to pass another stimulus package. politically or economically. >> no economist but my 23-year-old son colin just yesterday asked me about the stimulus package, the cost of the health care plan. i explained it to him. he said in other words, when i'm 40 i'm screwed. >> i'll tell you -- >> playing guitar hero or after. >> hangover time. it was still on his mind.
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>> i will tell you, those that look to the last election and said this shows that americans are becoming -- young americans are becoming more liberal, no. they are scared. those that are getting their first paychecks are scared because they understand. politicians going we're going to strap this -- they are seeing how much they are paying in taxes and for fica and social security and they understand, they are paying for this bill. so no, they aren't going to be talking about big government. they are going to talk how to keep at least 50% of their paycheck. >> andrew, stay with us. >> we have pictures, by the way, in nantucket. he climbed the rock wall. he did the wire. >> coming up next, senator -- >> i think that's cute. >> let's go to -- we're going to
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judd gregg of new hampshire. >> the guy with all of the blackberries. >> he was -- erin burnett is also coming up. she'll have a check on business before the bell. here is bill karins with a quick check on the forecast. quick, bill. >> good morning. we're watching south texas. it's a good day in south texas. this is the drought. it's pouring in corpus christi, this is the most rain you have seen in over a year. so this is good. we're going to watch the rain in south texas, san antonio, you are this afternoon. new orleans and miami wet for you. also a nasty raw day along the mid-atlantic coast. high winds and dangerous rip currents. that's your thursday forecast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm here on this tiny little plane, and guess what...
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i will continue to seek common ground in the weeks ahead. if you come to me with a serious set of proposals, i will be there to listen. my door is always open. but, know this. i will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than to improve it. >> republican senator from new hampshire, judd gregg and the republican from arizona that writes joe wilson's material, we
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of course -- >> you lie. >> i lie. i know i lie. he is a friend. i can do it. sorry about that, john. >> taking cheap shots at me his entire life. >> look what it's got me. okay. >> a good job. >> it works. so, keep working at it. we'll get there. >> this is for you, john. ouch. senator gregg, you are a ranking member of the budget committee. the president tells us he's not going to sign a bill that's not deficit neutral. how does he get there from here? >> i don't see it. you know, there's some natural laws that govern us. water runs downhill. another is when you add a trillion dollars of new spending to the federal government or maybe even 2 trillion, you usually don't end up paying for it. if you do it slows the economy through massive taxes where you cut medicare and moving the money over to another program.
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so, i just don't see it happening. i think this is a very serious situation, we've got a massive debt piling up on this country and the bill that's before us, at least the senate bill from the kennedy/dodd committee that added over $2 trillion over 10 years to the deficit. or to the debt. and to the size of the government. and that's not tolerable. >> john, talking about efficiencies in medicare it sounds like what we talked about in 1995, when democrats said that we wanted to yank granny out of hospital rooms and throw her in the street. it seems to me like democrats are going to go there, that they are going to try to -- i guess reduce the size of the increases in some medicare programs to pay for this. claire mccaskill talked about it earlier. you think that's where they are going? >> i don't. i think that's rhetoric. i think that in point in fact they have real cuts to medicare advantage, but beyond that they are going to pay for this with
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increased taxes and debt. >> claire talked about medicare advantage. claire mccaskill. explain what that is. >> it's an option that people have to buy medicare through a private provider and get additional options. democrats have hated it since the get go. they think it costs too much. i don't think it should be taken away. the americans that are on it love it. but the president initially planned to cut half a billion out of that program just this year or just implement this program, and then he turns around and says there are no cuts to medicare. i think this is rhetoric. i think one of the weakest parts of the speech was the president's credibility on what it would cost. you can't stand in front of the american people and say i'm going to expand coverage for the uncovered, give more coverage to the people who have insurance, says free preventative care, we aren't going to increase the price but make them give you free preventative care, create something out of nothing but
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says there is no price to that. i don't think that's credible. >> it has been and is a fair question. norah o'donnell has a question. >> senator, i know you are a deficit hawk. what about the president's argument that these health care reforms will cost less and add less to the deficit, he said it won't add a dime to the deficit compared to the bush tax cuts and what we spent in iraq and afghanistan? >> i just signed -- find it very hard and unacceptable to say when you're fighting a war you've got people in the field defending your country and that war was brought upon you in large part by an attack on our nation, that that is at the same level as expanding and creating a new entitlement. it's not comparable expenditures. we have to spend what it takes to keep our troops in the field with all of the equipment and support that they need. >> and what about the bush tax cuts? >> the bush tax cuts have been debated a long time. i think they are a good idea. they generated more over the
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period than the allegation that they cost us. by the time the bush tax but cuts were phased in, it was the highest level in history. and upper income people were actually paying more in taxes than they paid at any time especially during the clinton years. i by the bush tax cuts were a good idea. you insenty vise an economy, create jobs and take risks and do that taking the tax burden reasonable. >> can i jump in on small businesses because i was asking steny hoyer about this earlier. when it comes to small businesses it's not yet clear to me or in any of the reporting that's done about how they plan to mandate the small businesses cover employees. in particular, a law firm of 10 people can make more than a restaurant of 60. can you spell out specifically what you understand the democrats are trying to do in terms of mandating what kinds of small businesses will have to cover and how much of their health care will they have to cover? >> well, they have to cover a
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minimum federal program. i think that touches on an issue where the president failed in the speech. he seems to think or in his remarks last night that the only thing that make this is a government takeover of health care is the public plan. in point of fact, it is all the ma nushia. you have to write a plan that meets the requirements as to details all the way down to not just the appeals process or what's covered or not covered or charge or not charge, but the house bill says you have to meet federal standards how you advertise. that's the concern that americans have. i don't think he addressed that. the mandate is something that has proven it's not working in massachusetts. it has not worked in auto insurance. in the states that have mandatory auto insurance there are more uninsured motorists than in the states that don't have mandatory auto insurance. >> i think the problem here was he changed his rhetoric on the issue whether you get to keep your health care. he said you won't be required to
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change your health care but the problem is, the way this thing is structured they are going to say to a company, we're going to fine you about 7 or $8,000 if you don't have health insurance. if they have it that costs them 14,000 to $15 thou. they pay the fine and you move those folks off of the private sector into the public sector. >> so it's cheaper -- it's cheaper to pay the federal fine, and then don't worry. people do this public option. you gut -- >> tax credit, though, right? >> excuse me? >> mike barnicle. >> senator gregg, there's proposals that take these cadillac health plans and tax them above $8,000 which would make the cadillac health can prius health plan. i read and heard when this happens corporations would take the money that they are saving instead of buying the bigger more expensive plan and put it
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back into their employees' pay raises. what do you think the odds are of that happening? >> first off i happen to think it's a good idea to not allow the high end health plan to be deductible. i think that creates two events. it's incentive for people to are more intelligent. they are not overpurchasing health care. we talk high end we're talking $7,500 and above. i never heard $8,000. secondly you generate refuse news you can use to try to shore it up and make it more effective. as to whether or not the employee will receive a benefit in the sense of the company suddenly doing something better for them, i can't answer that question. >> the high end health plans are union that are going to cost. >> the labor unions don't want it. it was put forward by
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republicans, republicans are offering to actually increase taxes by saying we don't think these high end health care plans are constructive first the way you purchase and second to the way the tax laws work so let's tax them. the democrats reject it because the unions say no. >> proving once again that washington is no meritocoisy. they all -- it is never. you guys, you guys need to get on a bus and go around the country. >> you didn't think that was a strong response. >> you guys go. >> where were you? >> appreciate that. >> thank you, senator. i bet you're sorry you're not treasury secretary. john, keep up the good work for joe. >> guys, thanks very much. really make a lot of good points and raise good questions.
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welcome back to "morning joe." let's go to wall street. get a first -- or wall street d.c., let's go to washington, d.c. erin burnett. you were there last night. how are the markets going to respond to the president's speech? >> we'll get a higher open. first of all we're here because good time to be reminded especially in light of the health care situation what's going on with the banks that this is still in many ways the true financial capital of the country. the thing that stands out from all of the things he said last night, i think that most on wall street would be honest in saying there is no surprise he is willing to compromise on public option, these co-opts. it might give help to some of
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the insurers. the headline was when he said i will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficit. now or in the future. that's by far the biggest concern on wall street overall. which is the perception that we're going to spend a lot of money on reform and health care costs are still going to rise too quickly. the question is do people believe that assertion. can you make that kind of a statement. i don't know. there's going to be a lot of skepticism about that but of all of the things he said that direct addressing of the deficit that i think wall street wanted to hear the most and of course the question whether they believe it. the other thing to keep in mind today, on the state of the economy is going to be the jobless claims numbers, they were crossing as we were coming back from commercial. better than expected. fewer people filing for unemployment benefits. and the overall rolls of unemployment also dropped a little more. the numbers are still 6.1 million but that's back to where they were in april and it's indicative of a labor market which is agonizingly slowly
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improving. but still improving. so that's what you have there. and we're going to talk a lot of that with secretary geithner. big town hall with treasury secretary geithner to talk about these issues, particularly the deficit and our reliance on china and taxes and whether they are going up. >> erin, can you stick around for a minute or two. we're going to do a political round table. we would love for you to take part. >> sure. yes, i can. >> good. >> check your watch. >> she's busy. she's got a show coming up. if you've got to go, we understand. andrew, this has to be the key concern for the finance community, the deficit. small business has concerns but the big markets have to be concerned. is this going to be yet another burden on this country in >> the thing i'm curious about, and i'd ask erin, you said the markets are looking up, the futures. i haven't seen them. why do we think the speech made
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people believe that he was going to be more inclined not to exsfand the deficit? i would have thought that the one issue everybody did come out of this thinking was that he talked a good game but that it wasn't clear at all that he could get away with it. >> no. i agree. i think he came out and said it and put it on the table, i won't increase it a dime which people wanted to hear but to your point i don't think there is a lot of confidence that's true. everyone perceives that this plan is actually going to cost more because it covers more people. it's simple. >> and that's what i thought john and judd gregg were so articulate about. last night saying we're going to do for you, that for you, and i was tweeting all of these. but then about halfway through i said wait, there's no such thing as a free lunch. how do you pay for this? washington politicians like george w. bush get elected saying we're going to add a $7 trillion to medicare.
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>> doesn't matter whether it was president obama or president bush in the past, nobody in this country believes that they are going to be able to do anything and keep costs contained or not raise taxes. nobody believes that out of washington. >> norah, washington politicians. >> there is no doubt what they say the way they are not going to add to the deficit is there's going to be savings in medicare, savings from the drug industry, and they also say there's going to be new taxes. talking several hundred million in new taxes on the wealthy in order to pay for that. that's part of this deal. i'm curious what the market, how they react. when this gets close, that the health care industry is going to balloon in size. this is going to be a boon to insurance companies, to all of that additional spending in the health care industry. why does the market -- why isn't that a stimulus? >> it will be. you raise a good point which is that if you're going to -- let's take the illegal immigrants out of it. you're going to add tens of millions.
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let's be political about the number, to health insurance roles those are more people going to the insurers which have been having a huge problem with growth for just people signing up. as andrew knows. i think you're right, this could end up being good for the health insurance companies especially if they don't get a full-fledged public option. one other thing, joe, yesterday chairman barney frank told me one way he would pay for this is actually do a big cut to defense spending. >> cut the military budget. i never saw that coming. >> the one thing the markets must love, especially for the health care companies and drug companies limiting the class action lawsuits. that could be something substantial for some of these companies. i don't know how truthful it is. the fact he's talking about that. >> i think the white house is serious about that. >> speaks volumes to the markets. >> so i heard somebody ask this
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question, a great question, andrew. do you really want -- >> ike i'm going to know the answer. >> do you really want the same federal government that has $650 million of -- billion dollars of waste, fraud and abuse in the medicare system, expanding health care, taking over portions -- >> in the 6:00 hour you made the point that the fraud and abuse -- >> can i finish my setup. >> you can. >> can i finish? as ross perot tactic. do you really want, though, somebody made this point, this same government taking over the funding mechanism for people that don't have health care insurance? is government efficient? >> listen. government may not be efficient all the time but there are some very powerful arguments why the current system is not efficient either. i think is this waste, fraud and abuse you talk about, does it exist and how easy is it to cut out. you made the argument it isn't that easy.
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>> we all bring that up. >> i have a question for you along with your question. which group do you think is more reviled among the american public. government, insurance companies, or cable companies? >> i will tell you. cable companies probably because they carry this show. but i've got to say, though, and democrats don't want to hear this, progressives don't want to hear this, you tell somebody listen, we got $1 million, you won the lottery v. the federal government invest it for you, insurance companies invest it for you, they are going to trust the insurance companies. >> aig, remember what they did when they invested money. aig invested our premiums. >> good point, too. i'm just saying. the federal government is not been shockingly efficient in the past. and i don't think that americans are going to say you know, this system is so inefficient let's let the federal government take a bigger role in it.
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>> you made the argument that no is an option. >> no is the an option. >> i think one of the things that was interesting the president said no is not an option but do come forward with a better plan. i think one of the things i think we do have an obligation to come forward with a better plan. i think no is a tough answer. >> no, we don't. >> make the case. >> because it's an easy case to make. the president doesn't have to do everything in 2009. there is nothing in the constitution that says you have to do everything in one year. >> joe, if he doesn't get it through now, joe, as someone who has been on capitol hill, if he stops now and it's no now, it's no his whole term. >> that's right. erin, 100% right. >> that depends. if the president decides to get serious about what he talks about, cutting costs and he talked about cutting costs. then he could get somebody like me, he could get judd gregg, he could get somebody like john to say okay, well, we know medicare and medicaid go bankrupt in a decade. we know the united states
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economy is going to be crippled if we don't tame these health care costs. he put as plan out that helps us sustain it in the long run. he will find moderate republicans sporting him. this bill does not do that. it does not come close. >> i would submit that your republican party that you're talking about right now is different from the republican party that sat in the house of representatives last night. >> we need a leader. >> guys, thanks. erin, thanks. >> thank you so much. >> thank you, guys. thanks for having me stay around. ♪ well i was shopping for a new car, ♪
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>> we have seen it in industrialized europe, we've seen it in asia, we must have global vigilance. and never again must we be shy in the face of the evidence. >> president bill clinton in rwanda in 1998, four years after militias armed with only machetes killed over half a million rwandans over the course of 100 days. with aus man who lost his family to that genocide and returned to his country to become the speaker of the parliament. joseph, his new book "god sleeps in rwanda" he is here to talk
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about. that you escaped only because your family sent you away to become educated. >> exactly. i left rwanda earlier and went to congo. ison, if something happens here and if we die we are killed, then you survive. and he said by going there you have a chance to have education, but to -- before the genocide took place i left and went to buranda and the others who stayed were killed. >> joseph, of course this is stuch a tragedy for this nation, one of the worst cases of genocide in decades across the world. but how do you deal with the personal grief of losing your entire family? you talk about that in this book. how did you do it? >> you know, how i do, i think of three things.
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i think of future generations. when i look at how my grandmother suffered from this violence, and then my mother, and then myself, i say these things should stop and you should do whatever possible so that children or children's children, future generation, don't suffer what we have suffered. >> so instead of being angry and bitter you went back and tried to help transform your country, and you talk about a journey of transformation. how has rwanda gotten from where it was in the madness of the early 1990s to where it is today? >> you know, it has gone far in terms of construction, you can see roads, schools, infrastructure. it looks so good. but in terms of the heart, i think there is something boiling again because the construction
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was not effective. there is much that needs to be done in terms of -- because if we have infrastructure and we don't have that foundation in our hearts, the foundation of strong institutions, then anything can happen again and i'm afraid. >> how do you do that? you fear that the violence may break out again. how does that stop? you how does the world stop it again? bill clinton said never again. >> yeah, he said never again. so the international community can do something. that something is to help to prevent what may happen again because once it broke out, then it's hard to stop. you stop it by pressuring government, the government of rwanda to have a strong institution. not strong men. you do it by pressuring the
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government to have -- you bring together and to talk. what happens. and listen to each other and say why this happened and what can we do so that it doesn't happen again. so we don't have yet that dialogue. also on the personal level there are things we can really do. that is to say let's not think of revenge for what happened to us. let's not act like our offenders but instead let's look at the future generation so that what happened to us doesn't happen to our children. but also, we need to think of our own spirituality, islam, christian, not retaliation. >> and mika comes from a man who lost his entire family talking about reconciliation, forgiveness. >> living the example. >> transformation.
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>> the book is "god sleeps in rwanda." joseph, thank you very much. >> remarkable story. >> it's a pleasure. >> up next, what if anything and yes, i think some things did we learn today. >> active weather out there today. i expect airport delays in new york, philadelphia, in d.c. because of the wind and even some light rain. atlanta should be fine along with detroit and chicago. out west mostly san antonio to austin some problems at the airport. a lot of the west coast airports are fine. bicycle, i've missed you.
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time to talk about what we learned. william. >> i learned that norah o'donnell is a trooper. she got on the phone with me at