announcer: you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter. ( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet. brita-- better for the environment yeah, so? have you smelled this chair? or these curtains? you've gotta wash this whole room! are you kidding? wash it?! let's wash it with febreze!

whoa! [ sniffs ] hey mrs. weber. [ sniffs ] it smells nice in here. i like to keep things fresh. [ male announcer ] for all the things that you can't wash, wash it with febreze. febreze now comes in two fresh new scents -- downy april fresh and gain apple mango tango. the rest of the body is a no brainer. doesn't your whole body deserve excedrin strength relief? excedrin back & body. excedrin. what ache? we've all heard about the trouble in the housing industry. the fact is, with all the talk of a national real estate market, your town, your neighborhood, your home, or the home you'd like to buy, are each unique. the national conversation may not apply at all. if you've been worrying about what your property may be worth, or wondering if your dream home may finally be affordable, ask a re/max agent or go to remax.com. nobody sells more real estate than re/max.

this hour on "the big picture," be president obama today in front of nurses trying to keep his health care reform going. >> the time for bickering has passed. we're not the first generation to take up this cause but we can and have to be the last. >> this afternoon, the president has been meeting with moderate democrats. we'll have the latest and also

look at the feisty promise mr. obama made to all opponents of reform last night. >> you misrepresent what's in this plan, we will call you out. andly n li will not accept the s quo as a solution, not this time. not now. >> and the gop's image from the republican response to this moment -- >> the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> new remarks from the man who with just two words may have hurt his party's efforts to get their message out today on health care reform. >> the leadership, they wanted me to contact the white house and state that my statements were inappropriate. i did. >> we will get reaction from fellow south carolina congressman james clyburn, a member of the democratic leadership. >> and remember yesterday's

fears from congressman elliot dingell. >> if they take my seat, i'm going to blame you. >> we've got an update this hour on msnbc. good afternoon, everyone. i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> hi, tamron. i'm david shuster, live in washington. we want to bring you breaking news we're following out of staten island, where a bus is involved in an accident with an suv. it ultimately crashed into a home or fence of a home. a lot of people gather td scene. right now reports have the children on the bus able to walk away. the driver may have hit his head but he was also walking away. there are reports early reporting about 25 people, which i assume are the children on board, some of them may have been slightly injured in this. quite a scene there. you see a number of people gathered outside of that home on staten island. as this is back to school, certainly this is what no parent wants to see when their children are obviously in the care of a bus driver. accidents happen and we hope this one was not a serious one, david. >> indeed.

tamron now and in "the big picture," there are strong indications that the president's health care reform speech last night was the public success the white house has been counting on. a cnn polls 67% of those who watch the speech now support his proposals. before the speech, only 53% of the audience supported the obama plan. and a fokous group found the president made inroads with independent voters. a survey conducted by stanley greenburg found the number of independents who now believe reform would get costs under control jumped up 22 points. the number who said they would be able to keep their insurance jumped up 26 points. and those who said it would increase the deficit, a key republican talking point, that went down 24 points. the latest television ratings show 21 million people watched the president make declarations like this one. >> the time for bickering is over. the time for games has passed. now is the season for action. now is when we must bring the

best ideas of both parties together and show the american people that we can still do what we were sent here to did. now is the time to deliver on health care. >> today president obama tried to keep the momentum going in a speech this morning to nurses. he said there should not be tens of millions of uninsured people living here in the united states, and that people getting turned down from their insurance companies, that, that should also be avoided. >> it is heartbreaking, it is wrong, and as i said last night, nobody should be treated that way in the united states of america. nobody. >> and, of course, one of the key questions now involves the politics, if the obama administration looking at a short-term bounce or something, tamron, where they can get something long term and leverage the progress that the president made last night. >> and, david, not to "the big picture," the other person people are talking about, of course, who was there, congressman joe wilson. he's the man with the outburst during the president's speech

where he was attempting to unite democrats and as the president said, he was also trying to bring in conversation from the right. wilson shouted out, "you lie" when the president was hitting back at claims that his health care plan would provide insurance to illegal immigrants. >> the reform -- the reform i am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> not true. >> the president was right. it is not true. here's the wording on illegal health care reform legislation, approved by three house committees. quote, nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability, credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully president in the united states. an hour after the speech last night, wilson issued a written statement apologizing for his outbursts calling it inappropriate and regrettable. president obama accepted his apology but today wilson

indicated he was asked to apology. >> i last night heard from the leadership that they wanted me to contact the white house and state that my statements were inappropriate. i did. i'm very grateful that the white house in talking with them, they indicated that they appreciated the call, and that we needed to have a civil discussion about the health care issues and i srnlysrn certainly agree with that. >> joining us is majority whip james clyburn, democrat from south carolina. thank you, sir, for joining us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> so despite us and others pointing out exactly whags sat said in the proposal, you have republicans including wilson and a few others who claim there is is not in fact telling the whole story, that there is a way for people in this country illegally to get health care. what is your response to the fact that some are still sticking to their guns despite evidence proving otherwise? >> well, you know, if you

explain to people in the language that you just read, and they still look for other things to find a way to support their misconceptions, what more can you do? you know, i was born and raised in an orphanage. i have seen people take the bible and try to justify something as inhumane as slavery from wordings of the bible. so you cannot stop people from applying their own limited intelligence to words, and that's what we have here. >> what is your response to some of the republican leadership, including a texas congressman david and i just spoke with who would not say what wilson did was flat-out wrong? >> well, once again, i think that we saw saw during the august break where people who had a lot of misconceptions,

some intentionally so, floated all over this country, they're continuing to do the same thing, they told us when we got back here two days ago that if we thought august was bad, just wait until we see september and october. and so i think that what we saw last night was a lot of bad manners on the floor of the house by my colleague from south carolina, and it is very, very unfortunate because of the quorum of the house was violated and i would have hoped when i spoke with him today that he would have followed my advice and go to the well of the house and apologize to his colleagues for the violating of the quorum but he refused to do that. now he's saying today that the only reason he called the white house is because his leadership ordered him to do so. so he has not remorse whatsoe r whatsoever. so his words have very little meaning. >> congressman, i thought i heard you say earlier today that

you described his actions as cowardly. do you still believe that? do you think the house should now sense ur congressman wilson? >> i never used that word. what i said is i thought his words were inappropriate and bad manners. do i think we should censure? no. do i think we ought to pass a resolution of disapproval of his actions? yes. and i do believe that that or a reprimand would be appropriate next week when we come back into session. we're no longer in session to y today, but i plan to introduce such a resolution or ask my leadership to do so if he refuses to go to the well and apologize to his colleagues. >> congressman clyburn, thank you so much for joining us and giving us your reaction and also giving us new details in your personal conversation with congressman wilson. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having me. joining us to talk more

about the health care reform debate and the impact of last night is kathleen sebelius, health and human services secretary. madam secretary, we cited the polling at the beginning. it does appear the president got a significant bounce from independents about the 14 points in terms of support for the president's plans based on those who watched it. however, the viewing audience itself, 21 million, was relatively small compared to other primetime events. a little disappointed by that, that maybe the president if you believe all of the accounts of last night, that it was a great speech but not a lot of people saw it or least not as many people saw it as perhaps he would have wanted? >> i think, david, the president did exactly what he set out to do, which is to clarify what health reform means, security and stability for those americans with insurance, some opportunity for affordable coverage, for those without insurance and lower cost and higher quality for everybody. he got that message across. he took on some of the worst misinformation that's been circulating, clarified what's in

the bill, what isn't in the bill. and then called on all of us to reach into our better selves, to recognize that we're really in this together and that it's not only about lowering costs and saving lives, but actually about making sure that we live up to the character of what is america, that we reach out to folks who are in real trouble and bankrupt because of a health incident or can't take care of their kids who are sick, that we recognize that we won't ever be the country we should be without dramatic reform in a system so it serves everyone well. >> what about the progressives who as pleased as they were with the speech last night, and every indication that they were pleased, they still don't quite understand when they look up and they see the obstructionism or the "you lie" comment from congressman wilson, they don't understand why this democratic white house is still wanting to somehow negotiate or engage or say the door is open to anybody, including people who maintain

that there's something in the bill that would somehow help illegal immigrants when there's evidence to the contrary. >> i think, david, that the white house has ultimate respect for the voters of this country and they sense to the congress, republicans and democrats. and i think the president would like very much to have a bipartisan vote for this bill. there are bipartisan ideas definitely in the bill, the house incorporated i think about 100 republican amendments. the senate has done very much the same. but so far there's a lot of resistance from republicans to really participate constructively in this process. and the president is sort of called them out last night and said now is the time to move forward, now is the time for action. if you want to offer a constructive suggestion, if you have an idea of how to move forward, my door is open, you know, the phone line is open. but if you'r only intention is o cling to the status quo to try to stop health reform from happening, then we will move on without you, and i think he's

very serious about getting a bill to his desk this fall. >> madam secretary, one of the things that the president mentioned, which was malpractice reform, it did draw an applause from the republicans. i want to play that because he also referred to you in that moment. >> so i'm proposing that we move forward on a range of ideas how to put patient safety first and let doctors focus on practicing medicine. i think it's a good idea, and i'm directing my secretary of health and human services to move forward on this initiative today. >> but just following that and the gop response, we heard congressman bu saoustany say th might be lip service. how do you move forward and convince them this is more than just lip service as was said in the gop response? >> it's unfortunate. again, i think it indicates that the republicans, even if the president puts forward one of the ideas that they've embraced say, well, he really doesn't mean it.

frankly, the, tamron, the department of health and human services has had the specific authority since 1999 to do demonstration projects, to look at ways to improve the quality of health care, including the statute has said for ten years, liability reform. so we are going to move forward. we've had several meetings today. i must confess i didn't do it at 9:30 last night, but we began to work immediately on pulling time together to look at ways we can see what the best practices around the country, design a program where grants can be available to states. but this is the first president who has used the authority that's department has had for ten years. and i think it's unfortunate that the republicans, even when it's one of their ideas, say oh, you know, not going to happen. well, you know, don't count us out. we intend to take this very seriously. the president, when he was a united states senator, introduced a proposal that would have provided remediation

opportunity for litigation. he takes this very seriously. he's raised it with doctors' groups and with health care providers. he's been talking about it for months. i hope the republicans don't walk away from their own idea but he intends to move forward. >> health and human services investigate kathleen sebelius. madam secretary, thank you very much for joining us. >> good to talk to you david. we will continue, of course, our conversation after health care after the break with congressman john fleming, republican from louisiana. and also ahead -- south carolina governor mark sanford. he is fighting the growing calls from his own party to resign. how long can sanford survive when the top republican in the legislature is asking him to step aside? also, sarah palin accusing president obama of wanting to, quote, demonize the troops who lost their lives in iraq and afghanistan. and we will, of course, keep an eye on the white house where the president is due to meet at any moment with key centrist democrats. you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. watching your cholesterol.

now there's new heart health advantage from bayer. its non-aspirin formula contains phytosterols, which may reduce the risk of heart disease... by lowering bad cholesterol. new heart health advantage from bayer. a sanctuary. a command center. ( both revving ) a sophisticated sedan. a sports car. together. nissan maxima, the four-door sports car. now get a new nissan maxima for 0% apr financing for 60 months. but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't. i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet.

and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. s shopping forstest 3g network. ♪ which one's me - a cool convertible or an suv? ♪ ♪ too bad i didn't know my credit was whack ♪ ♪ 'cause now i'm driving off the lot in a used sub-compact. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free credit report dot com, baby. ♪ ♪ saw their ads on my tv ♪ thought about going but was too lazy ♪ ♪ now instead of looking fly and rollin' phat ♪ ♪ my legs are sticking to the vinyl ♪ ♪ and my posse's getting laughed at. ♪ ♪ f-r-e-e, that spells free- credit report dot com, baby. ♪

right now president obama is meeting with moderate democrats in an attempt to win them over in passing his health care reform. >> one of the big issues a lot of people are talking about is exactly what is not in the president's plan and while a number of republicans, especially in the house, are now condemning joe wilson for his outburst when the president was talking about illegal immigrants and that they would not get any beng fit from health care reform. there are a number of republicans who while condemning wilson are saying no, wait a

second, there is a way illegal immigrants could be helped by health care roeform and that's inappropriate. here's house majority leader john boehner. >> crs say there's nothing in this bill that will prevent these people from getting this type of insurance. and secondly, as i pointed out, democrats on two different committees, had two opportunities to make it clear that illegal immigrants aren't going to be covered under this plan. and they rejected both of them. >> joining us now from capitol hill, congressman john fleming, republican from louisiana. he is also a doctor. congressman fleming, boehner is correct to a certain extent and when asked if an illegal immigrant with the own money they make either cleaning somebody's house or working the farms, whatever they do, if they use their money to buy insurance, they can get insurance. are you suggesting, are the republicans suggesting, that their money is no good, that they should not be entitled to

buy health insurance? >> well, we're not suggesting anything like that. the only thing we're saying this that if someone is an illegal immigrant, that this bill does not require any verification one way or another, and there are many aspects of this bill where someone may receive health care for free. for instance, under schip today in medicaid, there's no real verification process, so we have -- >> by schip, we referring to children. we could be talking to a 5-year-old, who by no fault of their own, their parents are illegal immigrants and get cut and go to the hospital. what do you suppose hospitals do? >> schip actually covers adults in most cases as well. the point is there is no verification process. not to suggest we should refuse care to illegal immigrants but in terms of coverage, taxpayers ought to know who's getting the coverage when they pay the taxes. >> let me read you what's actually in the bill as opposed

to what was not put in the bill. what's in the bill, and here's the exact wording on illegal immigrants and this was approved by three house committees. nothing this this subtitle shall allow federal payments on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the united states t seem pretz s pretty cla lot of people. what's your issue with that? >> because, if you do not have a clause in there that requires verification, then there will be a de facto mandate, if you will, that they will be covered. that language is actually useless then. if you look at the congressional research service, which is academic and nonpartisan, they came out today and agreeing with the republicans that illegal immigrants will be covered under this plan. >> well, they will be covered. let's be clear, they will be covered if they pay for it. >> well, there are people under this plan who will not be paying for their own coverage. taxpayers in many cases will be paying for their coverage, and so that being the case, unfortunately, illegal immigrants will receive taxpayer

funding of their health care coverage. >> getting something for free, then there's something in the bill that a lot of people don't know about. tamron, go ahead. >> congressman, i want to ask you, a lot of people are wondering if it's possible to change minds on the right. the president tried to include, for example, the idea of malpractice reform and the gop response from a member of congress from your own state was maybe this is just lip service. is it possible at this point to bring in both sides, or are heels simply dug in and as the president pointed out smsh, somt wanting to kill health care reform? is there anything you heard that might bring you into the fold at least in the conversation? >> well, unfortunately, the president mentions something about health care -- rather malpractice reform. but the bill he's referring to has no language of that and has passed through all three of the committees. the only thing he mentions is some kind of project out in the future, some sort of pilot study. we have 50 states who have been

providing that coverage for many years. we have the evidence we need. we know what kind of reforms we need. the republican-controlled house passed malpractice reform several times but it never made it through the senate. so we know what we need to do. unfortunately, the president is not really supporting that. >> just so we give you an opportunity to see if there's anything the president said that you agree with. do you agree that insurance companies should not be rejecting people based on pre-existing conditions? >> well, the goals, we all agree on, that is no denial of coverage because of pre-existing illness, no loss of coverage because of any current illness, affordability, buying insurance across state lines, we agree with all of that. where we really differ with the president is we believe the government-run health care will explode the budget, will lead to rationing and long lines. >> congressman, it's not government run. it's government managed and there's going to be no government funds that are going to be used to sustain public options.

but that's a debate for another day. republican congressman john fleming, thanks for coming in. appreciate it. tamron, great way of putting in their talking points at the end. >> both sides do it. but it's interesting with the government run. i believe it was senator boxer who was on last night in our coverage who said that if people are prepared to vote against this and they don't like government run insurance, and these members of congress should forfeit their insurance because it is run by the government. if you don't vote for this or don't participate in the conversation in a sincere fashion, then give up your government-run insurance that you are provided as a member of congress. i thought that was excellent. >> and to be honest, maybe they have advocate for giving up medicare and social security and veterans affairs. >> and the list goes on that the government is involved in that somehow turned out to be good. up next -- how will ellen degeneres do as the next judge on "american idol"? talk about controversy, david. some of paula's loyal fans going after ellen. >> wow. we'll have that plus some other stories that are making us say, no way.

♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? the flowers are blooming. the air is sweet. and zyrtec® starts... relieving my allergies... 2 hours faster than claritin®. my worst symptoms feel better, indoors and outdoors. with zyrtec®, the fastest... 24-hour allergy medicine, i promise not to wait as long to go for our ride. zyrtec® works fast, so i can love the air™.

[ sighs ] whoo-hoo! remember when your friend kelly said she liked your hair color? oh. she lied. [ clang ] ugh! whoops! whoo! okay, one-tone hair color -- totally washing you out. pbht! let's get your right color! nice'n easy with color-blend technology. in 1 simple step, get a blend of 3 tones. highlights, lowlights, and shine. it makes a fresh, light-filled frame for your pretty face. why settle for flat hair color when you can get that hair color? with nice'n easy. your right color.

you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500. more like a 900 v-twin. excuse me. well, you're excused. the right insurance for your ride. w, that's progressive. call or click today.

there are a lot of thing that's could be considered news but only a few thing that's make us say -- >> no way! atlanta systems test fired a rocket that nasa is developing for a space flight vehicle and the pictures are actually pretty cool. take a look. >> three, two, one, fire! >> that was pretty cool. >> yeah. >> it was scheduled to replace the space shuttle and make its initial flight in 2015. it is the centerpiece of the plan announced by former president george w. bush to return astronauts to the moon by 2020. today they were just firing it off in the desert. today's rocket test comes amidst new questions about funding for

this program. forget, david, good-bye, paula, hello ellen. yeah. ellen degeneres announced on her talk show she's going to replace paula abdul, who left the show over a contract dispute. here's the big moment. >> i just finally got the okay just moments ago to announce this to you today. oh, god. i am going to be the new judge on "american idol." >> i so thought she was kidding but she was serious. ellen was a guest judge on the show "so you think you can dance" earlier this summer. she reportedly signed a five-year deal with as ai" but signed a contract so she can still do her day show. >> she didn't do so good on the other show. >> but maybe they liked her. >> she's funny. >> hilarious. i like her. up next -- the disgraced lawmaker who resigned over

x-rated comments caught on tape. he claimed it was all just, quote, storytelling. yeah, sure. the right wing bloss os fear braces the republican lawmaker who heckled president obama. now you can buy t-shirts, bumper stickers. is this the image that conservatives really want to project? you're watching "the big picture" on msnbc. sometimes the best way to get closer... is to get as far away from it all as possible. don't let erectile dysfunction get in the way. ♪ viva viagra! viagra, america's most prescribed ed treatment, can help you enjoy... a more satisfying sexual experience. ready to talk to your doctor? find out how at viagra.com ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. don't take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain... as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects may include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision.

to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting... more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away... if you experience a sudden decrease in vision or hearing. 20 million men have had the "viagra conversation." ask your doctor if viagra is right for you. ♪ viagra!

welcome back. i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> and i'm david shuster live in washington. tamron, in "the big picture" at this hour, there continues to be more backlash to south carolina's congressman wilson to president obama's speech last night. it is rolling across the internet and, of course, here in washington as well. watch what happened when the president addressed the misinformation about health care reform covering illegal immigrants. >> the reform -- the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to

those who are here illegally. >> congressman wilson apologized to the white house but today he seemed to suggest his apology really wasn't his idea. >> last night i heard from the leadership that they wanted me to contact the white house and state that my statements were inappropriate. i did. i'm very grateful. >> we need to discuss the issues, and i'm happy to do that. >> in the "the big picture" today, congressman wilson apologized for outbursts but did he back away from the claim that president obama's health care reform effort will cover illegal immigrants, or have wilson's comments become the distraction the president's opponents were hoping for? after all, instead of focusing on the nuts and bolts of the speech, a lot of talk certainly about wilson and the republican behavior that we saw, and the joint session before congress -- joint session of congress. but nbc's luke russert was there when congressman wilson met the

press today. joins us live from capitol hill. let me get your impression. many tried to read into body language and demeanor and it seemed for a short period of time, congressman wilson's breathing was shallow and here this was his big introduction to the country because he's seemingly unknown until last night. >> absolutely, tamron. i think you're exactly right. as he walked down the hall, you can see he was visibly nervous, flanked by two aides. when he came to speak to us, his voice was a little more shallow. could you tell he was a little bit rattled. but i do felt that he came across as sincere in that apology at that time. could you definitely feel that he did at that moment realize how big his comment really was, because there was over 25 press people with their microphones and cameras in his face, and at 1 11:30 in the morning who had been there since 7:30 in the morning, some 6:30 in the morning. this is from a little-known congressman from south carolina.

i think that was his welcome to the nfl moment if you will. >> and it's interesting in the backlash included the fact that many people are making contributions to rob miller, the democrat running against him. i believe it's now around $200,000 in contributions. but on the other side, luke, you have t-shirts that say "awe lie." people are supporting him. the balance of this here, what's next for congressman wilson. he doesn't seem to be backing down. he pointed out he's worked on immigration issues and this is his part -- >> tamron, excuse me, 48 hours ago, which one of any of us among us in the media would have thought that a little-known congressman from south carolina would become a culture icon overnight? >> right. >> the right is infatuated with him right now. when i was waiting to interview him, we had people from operation rescue, from freedom check, tea party people, tea party patriots. the leftist fired up saying we have to get this guy out of office. this guy, joe wilson n. , in my opinion, i think has become the

story, taking away the nuts and bolts from obama's speech. if you go to the website anywhere, you see next to each other, one and two, wilson and obama. nobody would have predict thad 48 hours ago. and that's the most amazing thing about politics. anything can happen with a tap of a finger. >> when you have people in the gop supporting him, he just said he got his marching orders from the house leadership, the gop leadership to go and apologize. it sounds like even within his own party there might be people who are not very appreciative that he is drawing the headlines in the way that he is. >> there was some talk about some senior people in the gop leadership that encouraged him to go to the floor today to issue his apology. mr. boehner has not confirmed that report. barney frank said that to reporters a little while ago. i definitely think you saw some senior members like john mccain, people like orrin hatch who came out and that was over the line. that was a big break of parliamentary procedure and i believe that a lot of people would say is true. however, the rank and file base, the folks back in south

carolina, a lot of the folks that galvanize for sarah palin, center for joe wilson. amazing story. >> it is. you now have t-shirts and mugs saying you lie and then on the other side have you another no-name, rob miller getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in support to beat this guy. >> yeah, i think it's luke pointed out, this is a net gain, obviously, for the right wing fringe, which hails this guy up as a hero. >> yeah. >> but i think for most of the mainstream republican party, this is very, very bad because, again, the independents in this country look up and they see the republican party now dominated by people who like somebody who shouts and interrupts the president of the united states and shows that level of disrespect for the office. this is a big problem again for the republican image, which is something we're going to be talking about on our next block. but luke had the best assignment today, to be able to chase down joe wilson. >> awesome. >> what a scene. unbelievable. tamron, embattled south

carolina governor mark sanford held a press conference a short time ago and said he will use, quote, every tool in the toolbox to fight growing pressure on him to resign. the governor claims his opponents in the legislature, including republicans, are interfering with the ongoing ethics investigation into his use of state aircraft and expenses, business class travel tickets. >> we have a real problem if members of the general assembly are going and trying to influence and truncate an ethics committee process so that they can get the intended result that they want and then use that for impeachment. if you go this route, what you're doing is you're setting up a kangaroo court wherein you frankly ought to just base the whole thing on media headlines w. all due respect to media headlin headlines, or you just ought to base it on political opponent accusations. and what i think is very, very important when you think about something like this is actually basing it on the facts rather than simple accusations.

so i get that many members of the general assembly would like to see me gone. but that has not been a new thing over the last 6 and a half years. >> actually, it is new in terms of the scope. 60 republican members of the state house of representatives, we're talking republicans, signed a letter asking sanford to step down. at 5:00 p.m. eastern time, the state republican party is holding a conference call and is expected to seek a party resolution calling for the governor's resignation. >> big development there, david. another story, california lawmakers denying an extramarital affair, even though he was caught on tape making explicit sexual comments in describing what he says happened. orange county assemblyman mike duval was overheard talking about having sex with a lobbyist and also another woman. duval made the comments to another lawmaker during the break from a committee meeting. he apparently was unaware that that mike was still on.

>> wow. duval resigned from office after his comments were made public but he said it was just inappropriate storytelling. duval, if you're wondering, is married with two children. but he called it storytelling. just ahead, republican behavior last night on national television. >> never mind duval and mark sanford. did the house and senate lawmakers in that chamber last night, did they hurt their cause with how they acted towards president obama. that was today's face-off. p@ talk about a wake up call.

i had a heart attack at 57. my doctor told me i should've been... doing more for my high cholesterol. what was i thinking? but now i trust my heart to lipitor. when diet and exercise are not enough,

adding lipitor may help. unlike some other cholesterol lowering medications, lipitor is fda approved to reduce the risk... of heart attack, stroke, and certain kinds of heart surgeries... if you have several common risk factors... or heart disease. lipitor has been extensively studied... with over 16 years of research. lipitor is not for everyone, including people with liver problems... and women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. you need simple blood tests to check for liver problems. tell your doctor if you are taking other medications, or if you have any muscle pain or weakness. this may be a sign of a rare but serious side effect. i learned the hard way. but you may be able to do something. have a heart to heart with your doctor... about your risk. and about lipitor. i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day men's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration. plus support for heart health. ( crowd roars ) that's a great call. one a day men's.

was it really for fun, or to save money on heat? why? don't you think nordic tuesday is fun? oh no, it's fun... you know, if you are trying to cut costs, fedex can help. we've got express options, fast ground and freight service-- you can save money and keep the heat on. great idea. that is a great idea. well, if nordic tuesday wasn't so much fun. (announcer) we understand. you need to save money. fedex

i'm just a skeptic so i don't necessarily believe that anything is going to work but i was like, hey, this actually works. (announcer) only rogaine foam is shown to regrow hair in 85% of guys. i'll check it out and i'm like, nice. (announcer) rogain foam. stop losing. start gaining. welcome back. well, david, in today's "face-off" the big image problem that some say confronts the republican party after last night's speech. >> the republican lawmaker is almost as striking as the speech itself. the president was greeted with a chorus of jeers and boos when he said his plan would not cover illegal immigrants. of course, they're you're looking at the moment when joe wilson was speaking out. there was a heckling from congressman joe wilson and last night tv viewers also saw virginia republican eric cantor, a member of the gop leadership, using his blackberry. that's underneath the banner there. he was using his blackberry

while the president was speaking. dozens of republicans also booed and hissed at the president, accusing him of misinformation and misleading. when the president referred to plans passed by four separate committees, a republican shouted what plan, with congressman gomer, you saw there from texas, holding up a sign called what bill? so did it change for the worse or was it miner that will only have an impact on the conservative base that was energized and wants to kill reform? here to face off democratic strategist patrick murphy and democratic strategist patrick cone. alex, you get the first word. why should this be seen as a minor moment that won't last? >> it's a consistent pattern. i don't know where the outrage is from michael steele and the other republican leaders. when barack obama tries to talk to schoolchildren about doing their homework, he gets criticized from the right and from the conservatives. and when people like joe wilson stand up and call the president a liar in the middle of the congressional joint session, it's just incredible.

there's no sense of decency left of these guys and they're just hitting the lowest possible rung on the ladder to try to upset health care and try to undue this presidency. >> alex, i know in your heart of hearts you're a smart guy, that the image last night is no the one you would have preferred for the republican party. will you just come out now and say, look, i wish a republican controlled hipseit better? >> look i think we're kidding ourselves if you think republicans sat on their hands last night. that's what most americans were doing when they watched it at home. the republicans are on the same page as the american people on the health care debate, they oppose what president obama and the democrats are trying to do with the government takeover the health care. >> what about the joe wilson episode? >> joe wilson apologized, and i think that was the appropriate thing to do. the white house accepted that. i think we should move on. the fact that we're still debating joe wilson's comment rather than debating what was supposed to be a game-changing

speech by the president yesterday shows just how far short the president's speech was. >> well, here's the bigger issue. let's put up on that screen again the joe wilson picture of him reaching out. you look at the image of the republican party, all white males with short haircuts. they look sort of angry. no women, no minorities, continue looks like they sort have become unhinged. how does that image -- >> except that -- >> -- affect the republican party? >> let's remember last night the president referred to sarah palin, who obviously is a republican leader and a woman. so i don't think it's fair to say all republicans are white males like you and me, david. >> i don't know if you want to invoke sarah palin to help your cause. tamron, you take it away. >> david, you said all white males with short hair. i have short hair. but the reality, patrick, i'm sorry, alex, i was chuckling at some of the other things we were talking about. patrick, set aside where you stand in this conversation, the image -- you have the president

saying it's enough of the bitterness. let's have a civil conversation, and do you have this image there. the flip side, though, have you progressives and some far left who say, you know, mr. president, don't you see what we see? there are people who are not willing or not ready to have a legitimate conversation, so move on without them. >> well, and i think it's a dilemma of -- i don't think the american people are sitting home on their hands. >> no. >> i think the american people are sitting home wondering what kind of shape their health care is if they have it and what it would be like to get it. and i think that's what obama -- the president was trying to get to last night. and this jeering and booing by republicans, it was just so -- it was literally out of record. >> but clinton -- >> but at the time you're seeing the president say there's hope for a legitimate conversation with both sides involved, but what you saw and everybody's got eyes, you're looking there, doesn't look like what he is saying is making any leadway there. did he see any movement there?

>> i don't think he saw any movement in that claim ber. but i think some of the moderate democrats and i think a handful of republicans are going to help get this bill passed. >> alex, we'll give you the last word. one more shot to say, you know what, i wish the republicans had behaved better. >> let me just say that this speech last night was very similar to the speech we heard two months ago at the press conference. that was also supposed to change public opinion and supposed to jump-start the debate and get people excited about obama's plan. and that fell short. and yesterday's speech was very similar. nothing he said yesterday will fundamentally change the dynamics of this thing. if you wanted to change the tragedy, he would have really reached out to republicans and embraced the bipartisan ideas instead of going along with congress leaders like nancy pelosi. >> he's using john mccain's ideas. he's using republican ideas and they still boo him. >> a republican idea that was new. >> we absolutely could pass a bipartisan bill. there's a lot we agree on.

some of the things president obama mentioned. but if he continues to push ahead of a government takeover, the public option, that's going to be a partisan proposal and even conservative democrats are going to oppose. that's why it hasn't passed the house of representatives yet. >> this is not a long-term game changer but the fact of the matter is in the polling last night, the president jumped 15 points in one poll among independents, he was up 20 to 25 points. at least it was a short-term boost for the democrats. in any case, alex, patrick murphy, we have to leave it there. sorry to get the last words. those are the rules except when tamron gets the last word. >> we follow the rules. >> tamron, what do you think? >> i think it's unfortunate a lot of the conversation is about congressman wilson, but last night, you heard people who have been, you know, scholars of politics far longer than at least myself, who say they've never seen anything like that. >> right. >> and i think it deserves a conversation and it also brings up, you know, this pride in being an american and what it means to have class in this country and to see something

like that. it is hurtful when you know that it is a prestigious place we have in this world and when we are reduced to behavior like that, it is very telling to all of us. we love this country and it is hurtful to see someone play out their -- their emotions in such a loser way -- i think i can say that. >> tamron you said it perfectly. i agree with you 100%. >> i don't think my mother would like i said loser. oeshg well. up next, david, some things we thought you should know. >> did our live interview ruin congressman angle's hopes yesterday of getting the best seat in the house at the president's speech last night? we'll show you. on "hardball" with chris matthews, much more on mark sanford's defiance and his will to survive in south carolina. welcome to the now network. right now five coworkers

are working from the road using a mifi-- a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an email. - woman: what?! hmph. it's being revised again. the copilot is on mapquest. and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music - from meltedmetal.com. - ( heavy metal music playing ) that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint-- the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing, and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. ♪ ♪ i got troubles, oh ♪ but not today ♪ 'cause they're gonna wash away ♪ ♪ they're gonna wash away ♪

♪ ♪ they're gonna wash away ♪ this old heart ♪ gonna take them away [ quacks ]

i'm holding my seat myself. i want full credit. i got there 8:30 this morning and i have been there ever since. they turned up the air conditioning so we're all freezing. >> you're not there now. did someone take your seat? you're not there now. >> if they take my seat, i'm going to blame you. >> lucky for me, new york congressman elliot ingle got his front row seat. there he was, david, to greet the president as he entered the house chamber for his speech on health care reform. we had him on as a guest yesterday on our show and he said he wasn't able to get that aisle seat, he's going to blame david shuster. congressman engle has greeted every president from an aisle speech since freshman year in congress, 1989. that is a spectacular accomplishment.